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View Full Version : WIP: Outpost 64 - SP Map for JA


The Messiah
10-20-2003, 11:11 PM
Hi,
I'm working on a project for Jedi Academy called "Outpost 64".
The screenshots are very early into the project, a lot of changes are going to be made (ex. textures, detail, lighting).

Story:
Kyle Katarn and Jaden have been pulled into an Imperial space station. A tractor beam has locked onto their ship, Raven's Claw, and forced them to have to find a way out. They must find a way to disable the tractor beam, open the docking bay doors, and escape the space station safely. Through their journey they will encounter very active Imperial soldiers and remaining Sith Jedi.

Screenshots:
Screenshot 1 (http://216.118.116.39/ja/outpost64/shot0021.jpg)
Screenshot 2 (http://216.118.116.39/ja/outpost64/shot0022.jpg)
Screenshot 3 (http://216.118.116.39/ja/outpost64/shot0023.jpg)

More detailed and updated screenshots will be posted as I progress.

Eldritch
10-21-2003, 12:22 AM
All you're doing is re-creating the level from the regular SP game where the exact same thing happens.

You're even copying the level design, though the way you're doing it is much more poor than the original.

My suggestions:

1. Original story
2. Don't rip location straight from the game

The Messiah
10-21-2003, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by Eldritch
All you're doing is re-creating the level from the regular SP game where the exact same thing happens.

You're even copying the level design, though the way you're doing it is much more poor than the original.

My suggestions:

1. Original story
2. Don't rip location straight from the game

First of all, I didn't rip anything... I don't know why you think I ripped it.

Second of all, I know it's kind of an original story but I'm going to try to add some twists the the level.

GothiX
10-21-2003, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by The Messiah
First of all, I didn't rip anything... I don't know why you think I ripped it.

Second of all, I know it's kind of an original story but I'm going to try to add some twists the the level.

There is EXACTLY a level like this in the SP game.

As for your map.. it's pretty bland.. add more detail to it, and better lighting.

Eldritch
10-22-2003, 02:27 AM
Originally posted by The Messiah
First of all, I didn't rip anything... I don't know why you think I ripped it. Second of all, I know it's kind of an original story but I'm going to try to add some twists the the level.
Here are the main reasons why it's ripped:
1. In one of the single player missions in Jedi Academy, Kyle and Jaden are travelling in the Raven's Claw when a tractor beam pulls them into an Imperial Ship. This is awfully close to them being pulled into a "Imperial Space Station."
2. They have the same objectives in the regular JA single player mission as they do in your project.
3. Screenshots 1 & 2 poorly recreate the hangar in which you start the mission in Jedi Academy.

The story is not at all original - you must be joking. Play through all the missions in Jedi Academy and you'll see what I'm talking about. Raven created this exact mission in the single player game, and now you're ripping it (and lying too, claiming it's entirely original).

You don't need to add twists, you need to make up an totally new story.

Wudan
10-22-2003, 12:16 PM
Scathing words from Eldritch, who is undoubtedly the most powerful mapper of them all. Heck, even if you do copy the story (albeit, getting sucked in to a space station is a really crappy story - what? they couldn't AVOID a space station? I guess Han Solo couldn't in Ep 4 ... but how many space stations does the remnant have flying around, years after they were shattered and scattered to the wind?) you could at least work on some varied architecture or something - the JA SP maps are all very good looking maps, the least you could do is make up some original map design, even if you 'rip' the story.

Neverhoodian
10-22-2003, 02:38 PM
If I may suggest something,

Check out the Escape from Takron-Galtos JO SP level at www.pcgamemods.com for some ideas for your level, Messiah. It has a similar escape-from-Remnant-base idea, but it's done in a way that it's fresh and intriguing, as you run across things that suggest that it's more than your average Remnant base. Maybe you could incorporate a similar idea in your level to spice it up a bit. Check out the architecture as well, it's well done. Your level would stand out from the rest if it was more like that, I think.

Kengo
10-22-2003, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by Wudan
Scathing words from Eldritch, who is undoubtedly the most powerful mapper of them all.

The scariest anyway...

Ripped sounds a bit like El is accusing you of actually taking bits from Ravens map file, which he isn't and you didn't - just so you know!

I dunno, it is basically part of a level from JA but even Raven re-used this idea on several levels (that tattoine level had the exact same plot as well). So I don't think I'd call this copying an idea from another level, just using an idea thats been done to DEATH already.

Still, my first level was hardly an original concept....or the second....or the third...

Using design styles from Ravens levels is what most starting mappers would do well to do IMHO, they tend to come out with better maps at the end of it and learn quicker.

In conclusion - there is absolutely nothing in your levels setting at the moment that will make it stand out from a load of other ones. However, if you do it well it should at least be good. To make a great map, you need to be a bit more original as well - but there aren't enough good maps out there let alone great ones.

The Messiah
10-22-2003, 08:46 PM
Sorry, I didn't know there was a level like this in single player. :(

Neverhoodian
10-22-2003, 10:56 PM
Whoops, my mistake, the level's not at pcgamemods.com. Go to www.jk2review.com instead.

DarkLord60
10-22-2003, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by The Messiah
Sorry, I didn't know there was a level like this in single player. :(

Just admit it dude. You ripped the story and design but like others said yes it is done poorly. I am sorry but when you post in here you need to prepare yourself for some criticism.

The Messiah
10-23-2003, 12:44 AM
Originally posted by DarkLord60
Just admit it dude. You ripped the story and design but like others said yes it is done poorly. I am sorry but when you post in here you need to prepare yourself for some criticism.

Admit what?
I didn't know there was a level like this in SP.

Kengo
10-23-2003, 07:19 AM
Originally posted by DarkLord60
Just admit it dude. You ripped the story and design but like others said yes it is done poorly. I am sorry but when you post in here you need to prepare yourself for some criticism.

Give this guy some slack will you, he hasn't committed some cardinal sin - he's just used a less than original story for a map. Big deal, 99% of maps do the same thing. You can play JA and skip one out of 5 levels and its perfectly possible he skipped the one you're referring to anyway. And even if he didn't, who cares? Sheesh. Ripped is a dirty word in this context.

DarkLord60
10-23-2003, 02:09 PM
Sorry its just what I think! And Kengo why you chewing me out when everybody else feels the same why. He needs practice and he needs to change a couple of things. I may have come across a little harsh and I am sorry but thats the truth.

Neverhoodian
10-23-2003, 02:18 PM
Well, I dunno. It could be a genuine coincidence. Besides, I've certainly heard of worse storylines. (anyone remember the Planet Sith level for JK? :P) Nobody's FORCING anyone to get this level if they don't want it.

GothiX
10-23-2003, 02:34 PM
Perhaps he skipped the level - which is possible. In that case, I'd suggest you play it to look how Raven did it, and at LEAST equalise it.

Kengo
10-23-2003, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by DarkLord60
Sorry its just what I think! And Kengo why you chewing me out when everybody else feels the same why. He needs practice and he needs to change a couple of things. I may have come across a little harsh and I am sorry but thats the truth.

You were the last one to post :)

Just don't be too hard on first time showcase posters is all I'm saying, it puts people off. My first level absolutely SUCKED....but I only nearly got put off the whole mapping thing when I got some really harsh comments for my third one.

Also I'd say equalling Raven in build quality is the mark of an exceptional mapper, not a decent one.

shukrallah
10-23-2003, 06:29 PM
hmm.. how many people here can map as good as raven? If you cant, then dont ask him too please. If you can, then be nicer... give him tips, and help to be a better mapper if you see something that might not make it too far in the community.

Also remember, those were the first screenshots, its not like he had been working for weeks to get what he has, maybe a few hours or a day...

The Messiah
10-23-2003, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
Also remember, those were the first screenshots, its not like he had been working for weeks to get what he has, maybe a few hours or a day...

Yeah, that's what I said at the beginning of my thread.
But, it's a shame everyone jumps to the screenshots instead of reading. :(

DarkLord60
10-23-2003, 11:10 PM
Well maybe I shouldn't have said those things after all its alot better than I could do. Well I wish you good luck and i hope you make a good SP map cause we need one! Bad!

idontlikegeorge
10-23-2003, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by DarkLord60
Sorry its just what I think! And Kengo why you chewing me out when everybody else feels the same why. He needs practice and he needs to change a couple of things. I may have come across a little harsh and I am sorry but thats the truth.

Oh, so because a mass of people agree, makes it ok?


Anyway, nobody is on trial here - except maybe the mapper! :p

I'd suggest a different storyline as well - especially with Jaden and Kyle. I mean, NPC Kyle kicks ass, but there have been 4 games with him as a center character, and TONS of custom maps about him.

I know everyone hates him like Jar-Jar, but why not have Rosh go with Jaden somewhere? A small addition of an npc file to make him more than worthless, and it would work fine.

As far as the map structure goes, less repetitive texturing, and better lighting would be in order, definitely.

I know people always bash first mappers and early maps. That's the way it goes. I had an alpha build of a Day of Defeat map back in the day that got ripped on horribly, but I kept at it - until they changed several gameplay things and would have to remake it! Doh!

My suggestion to any mapper, is to make a few personal maps first, then release maps when you are thoroughly impressed by the quality you can make them.

Like look at Sine Norman's Nar Shaddaa map - that looks way better than any Nar Shaddaa from Raven. Of course, looks aren't everything, either... but he's taking his time on it, so I'm sure it will be well above-par.

Just some thoughts

The Truthful Liar
10-24-2003, 10:28 AM
I do hope you have more screenshots to post up soon.

DarkLord60
10-28-2003, 01:12 AM
Originally posted by idontlikegeorge
Oh, so because a mass of people agree, makes it ok?


Anyway, nobody is on trial here - except maybe the mapper! :p

I'd suggest a different storyline as well - especially with Jaden and Kyle. I mean, NPC Kyle kicks ass, but there have been 4 games with him as a center character, and TONS of custom maps about him.

I know everyone hates him like Jar-Jar, but why not have Rosh go with Jaden somewhere? A small addition of an npc file to make him more than worthless, and it would work fine.

As far as the map structure goes, less repetitive texturing, and better lighting would be in order, definitely.

I know people always bash first mappers and early maps. That's the way it goes. I had an alpha build of a Day of Defeat map back in the day that got ripped on horribly, but I kept at it - until they changed several gameplay things and would have to remake it! Doh!

My suggestion to any mapper, is to make a few personal maps first, then release maps when you are thoroughly impressed by the quality you can make them.

Like look at Sine Norman's Nar Shaddaa map - that looks way better than any Nar Shaddaa from Raven. Of course, looks aren't everything, either... but he's taking his time on it, so I'm sure it will be well above-par.

Just some thoughts

I said I was sorry. :(

Kengo
10-28-2003, 09:21 AM
Nothing like some good, old fashioned controvesy to spark up a load of extra interest in a project eh? :) Can we have some punch ups and possibly random throwing of abuse in my showcase thread for Team Corellia? It would really get it some more coverage. *Thinks back to 2 page Occupation 2 showcase thread punch up*

*sigh* Those were the days...

Lil Killa
10-28-2003, 08:48 PM
*tries to get thread back on subject*


I think you need to work on your texturing and architecture(sp?) Also lighting and story line could sue some work.

DarkLord60
10-29-2003, 10:19 PM
Well somethings not quite right about the textures.

Business_Eskimo
10-30-2003, 10:23 PM
You appear to have solely ambient lighting in your map, and no light sources. Some ceiling lamps could spruce the rooms up a bit.