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View Full Version : Getting Fed Up with this Lack of Support From LucasArts/Raven


razorace
10-22-2003, 08:39 AM
Ok, it's been over a month since the release of the game and we still haven't gotten a patch or the SDK. This is starting to tick me off.

Max Payne 2 and most other mainstream titles are receiving immediate patches for game problems and modder support. We deserve the same sort of treatment.

While I understand the tricky nature of the internal politics involved with a Star Wars game, it should not prevent Raven from properly supporting the product. We need some support and we need it soon.

Leaving major bugs like the in-game browser mess and the dynamic glow slowdowns is going to hurt current and future sales. I know my future support of any Raven or LucasArt products are in doubt due to this trail of broken promises and a general lack of support. And I'm saying this as a hardcore LucasArts gamer and JK2/JKA modder.

I suggest that everyone that agrees with me tries to contact both Raven and LEC and inform them of our unhappiness.

Raven's general email address is www@ravensoft.com.
LucasArt's general email address seems to be webjedi@lucasarts.com.

Tsaya
10-22-2003, 09:34 AM
Max Payne 2 and most other mainstream titles are receiving immediate patches for game problems and modder support.
I agree that there should be a patch for JA. But asking for immediate patches is not the solution. From my experience immediate patches mean only one thing: the game was sold to early, it contains lots of bugs that are easy to fix but werent because the CDs were already pressed. This isn't positive at all but the very opposite.

JediLurker
10-22-2003, 12:50 PM
Any prospective patch is in LucasArts' hands. Raven has already unofficially acknowledged that problems exist, but if LucasArts says no patch, there won't be a patch. Even if there is one, LucasArts decides when it comes, so emailing complaints to Raven isn't going to do much good.

Code
10-22-2003, 01:08 PM
how much time did it take for the JO SDK to get out ?

(of course im talking about the mp code)

Prime
10-22-2003, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by JediLurker
Any prospective patch is in LucasArts' hands. Raven has already unofficially acknowledged that problems exist, but if LucasArts says no patch, there won't be a patch. Even if there is one, LucasArts decides when it comes, so emailing complaints to Raven isn't going to do much good. Indeed. As far as I know Raven has no control over decisions for patching or releasing development tools. This is entirely un Lucasarts hands. I don't think too much blame can be directed at Raven.

That being said. The in-game browser is a huge issue...

txa1265
10-22-2003, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by Prime
Indeed. As far as I know Raven has no control over decisions for patching or releasing development tools. This is entirely un Lucasarts hands. I don't think too much blame can be directed at Raven.

That being said. The in-game browser is a huge issue... I very much agree. It is nice seeing the All Seeing Eye, QTracker and the like, but with JKII the browser was all I ever used. It is a significant factor that may make some people think there are many fewer games available than there actually are. They are doing a dis-service by not patching that right away. Leave the rest (don't mess with my dynamic glow, thanks very much) to politics and in-fighting ...

Mike

Lord Sokar
10-22-2003, 05:18 PM
razorace,

Here is a thread with an open letter to Raven/Lucasarts I wrote just before I noticed your thread.

It pretty much sums up everything regarding this unbelievable problem. It probably sounds angry, but I am DAMN pissed off about this. I've pissed away a Ben Franklin on this crap and I'm done with Raven.

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115817

razorace
10-22-2003, 06:11 PM
Lord Sokar, I suggest you email or mail that to Raven and LucasArts. They don't really read this forum.

Raven have an ethical obligation to do quality work regardless of the contact. If LucasArts isn't going to allow a reasonable level of patches (or let they fix the game before release), they shouldn't have signed on with LucasArts. If you created buggy software, you created buggy software regardless of any contact crap.

If LucasArts is in 100% control of releasing the mod information, why did they allow the unorganized trickle of modding data that we're getting?

SpecialForces
10-22-2003, 06:18 PM
It costs money to make patches so i think its no BIG DEAL that they are waiting to fix more bugs in one patch...
And its not like you push a button and its fixed it takes time.
CALM THE **** DOWN.... lol

Rad Blackrose
10-22-2003, 06:22 PM
I suggest you divert your attention fully to LEC first, due to the fact that they are the holders of the license, and thus they have say over if things such as the source code or patches are released.

Raven is willing to help, it's LEC that needs to get their **** together.

SpecialForces
10-22-2003, 06:33 PM
lol

txa1265
10-22-2003, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by SpecialForces
It costs money to make patches so i think its no BIG DEAL that they are waiting to fix more bugs in one patch...
And its not like you push a button and its fixed it takes time.
CALM THE **** DOWN.... lol Actually, there I disagree a bit. This has been known for a month, apparently the code has been done for a while. LEC should accept a multi-patch future, and should have patched the MP browser (technical issue) right away. Other stuff (gameplay and such) could wait.

Heck, they patched Halo twice within a week and they're not done yet ...

Mike

razorace
10-22-2003, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by SpecialForces
It costs money to make patches so i think its no BIG DEAL that they are waiting to fix more bugs in one patch...
And its not like you push a button and its fixed it takes time.
CALM THE **** DOWN.... lol

It only costs money to create patches if you do the work on company time. Besides, this isn't really addition work, this is work to get the game to release level status.

If LucasArts/Raven is claiming that the holdup is due to QA testing, that's a joke. They would had gotten all these bugs in the betatesting phase if they had done some real QA testing in the first place.

These aren't minor bugs we're talking about. We have at least two major bugs: the ingame browser issue and the major slowdowns caused by dynamic glow. Both of these have been left hanging for over a month now and Raven had the game "completed" since July. They should have had these issues fixed at release time. It's only pissing fans off and hurting sales now.

SpecialForces
10-22-2003, 06:45 PM
We lived with it when we played jk2 didnt we?
Yea bitch at them... but dont expect it to matter..... but it will make you feel better

Iblis Reborn
10-22-2003, 07:11 PM
what would be so wrong about releasing a fix for just the ingame browser for now?

they know how to fix it they just said they were waiting for a patch to put it in....but why??

razorace
10-22-2003, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by SpecialForces
We lived with it when we played jk2 didnt we?
Yea bitch at them... but dont expect it to matter..... but it will make you feel better

These bugs weren't in JK2.

noide
10-22-2003, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by SpecialForces
We lived with it when we played jk2 didnt we?
Yea bitch at them... but dont expect it to matter..... but it will make you feel better

What the hell are you talking about. Jk2 didnt have these bugs and it's bloody obvious jk3 needs a patch to fix the major bugs and to get the SDK out for the communities to fix the gameplay issues because they (LA) obviously arent going to do anything.

Emon
10-22-2003, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
I suggest you divert your attention fully to LEC first, due to the fact that they are the holders of the license, and thus they have say over if things such as the source code or patches are released.

Raven is willing to help, it's LEC that needs to get their **** together.

Damn right, I totally agree. Raven has, for most all the problems, a fix! They are just waiting on LEC to let them release it. I'm not sure how LEC operates, but it might have to do with how the President just resigned without reason, so that could be causing some choas, needing products in general to be put on a back burner. Still, though, they have always neglected the community, apparently they think it isn't worth their time or money. For such greedy moneymongerers, I'm really suprised that they don't see how such major issues hurt the sales of the game. Balance issues? Single saber too weak? Hah, mostly everyone doesn't care about that crap. It's only people like us that do, that isn't going to hurt sales. What will hurt sales is stuff like the dynamic glow and server issues. If a customer is torn between JA and another game, they'll probably pick the other game if they know JA is buggy.

Rumor
10-22-2003, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by Tsaya
I agree that there should be a patch for JA. But asking for immediate patches is not the solution. From my experience immediate patches mean only one thing: the game was sold to early, it contains lots of bugs that are easy to fix but werent because the CDs were already pressed. This isn't positive at all but the very opposite.

EARTH TO TSAYA ITS BEEN A MONTH.

g//plaZma
10-22-2003, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by Rumor
EARTH TO TSAYA ITS BEEN A MONTH.

lol everyone's jumping on the Spider Al bandwagon headed for the land where 3 months is the minimum for a non pre-mature patch.

Butt_Whisper
10-22-2003, 11:58 PM
EA games did the same thing for BF 1942. I know they have come out with a series of patches ( i have not played for a LONG time), but when it was first released, there was stuff that should have been addressed during beta testing, and definately fixed before putting it on the shelves; and it pissed many peeps off. I would rather wait for a patch that fixed many problems, but they should fix the ingame browser soon, because I would say it has driven people away.

MrDomin0
10-23-2003, 05:07 AM
This game has what I like to call "Tribes 2 - Syndrome" in that they tried to cater to that extremely vocal minority who liked to whine a lot about the hallmark previous installment. I remember playing JO the first day at a LAN for 8 hours straight. None of us new what the hell we were doing, but I'll be damned if it wasn't fun.

For the record I do really enjoy JA. It disappointed me in some areas, the movement physics are a little wacky, but I'd say it was worth my time. I think it would have been nice if there was a server menu with an advanced option that listed all those lovely cvars so people would have an easier time playing with the juju. I would like to see MP take on some of the same dynamics that SP has. But again people, you have to remember that Raven has been pushing the mod community for this game from the beginning. They have simply given us the mold from which to begin. I have very little doubt that once the SDK is out there that we will not be deprived of our preferences for this game, regardless of how arcane and cryptic they may be. It's just that Lucasarts has Raven by the balls now. Frankly I don't blame them for not screaming at the guy who has an icy death grip on your johnson.

And jesus people, stop comparing JA to Halo. Halo was patched right away because it ran like ass on high end systems out of the box and had no CD check on the base install. Besides, Halo does not and never has done anything revolutionary other than bring Xbox owners a reason to use they're systems. JO and JA are noteworthy in the very least because they breathe a life into one of our favorite sci-fi universes that no other title can come close to. Just have a little faith and a little patience.

razorace
10-23-2003, 05:36 AM
Here's the email I sent to Raven and LucasArts.

Dear Raven/LucasArts,

I've been a long time Raven and LucasArts fan dating back to the earliest days of both companies and own many of your collective products including Strike Fleet, Manic Mansion, Hexen, and Heretic. However, my future support of Raven and LucasArts products is in doubt. I'm very displeased with the general lack of support for Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy (JKA)

I plunked down $50 dollars for the game based on getting a finished/quality game and reasonable level of company support for the game and the ability to mod it. I have gotten none of the above

While it's obvious that there's a very enjoyable game hidden in JKA, the game doesn't feel like it was given any real time in the beta phase before release. I'll name several issues with the game:

- The ingame browser is broken. Only about 15-30 of the 500+ JKA servers are showing for ANYONE. I don't even get ANY servers unless I toggle the server game filter from All to Jedi Academy and back whenever I refresh my server list. When servers (that honest people like myself pay for) aren't seen by the majority of the game's players, the server admins will eventually admit defeat and shut down their servers.

- Several game features cause an unreasonable amount of slowdown vs. Jedi Knight 2. Joystick Force feedback is turned on by default and causes a significant frames per second (fps) drop. Dynamic Glow also causes a similar drop.

- The Multiplayer (MP) bots are very substandard. The bots will run half away across the map even when you're in plain sight and very close by. The bots jam up on elevators nearly every time on most of the maps. The bots often suicide into a death pit by moving towards you when attempting a complicated jump or fall. Most of this behavior appears to be the result of very poor bot waypoint placement on the MP maps and a lack of some simple fixes to the bot AI.

- At least one of the single player (SP) animations was broken. I was able to find this bug within minutes of starting to playing the JKA demo.

While it is understandable that major bugs can and do slip by QA departments, it's expected that these major issues will be fixed with patches in a reasonable time period. JKA has been out for over a month and there is still no patch for the game. We have been given some vague statements from individuals at Raven about a patch that is suppose to be in the works, but we haven't gotten much information about this and no clue when this patch can be expected.

Max Payne 2 and several other competing games have had patches within the first week of release. Leaving major bugs unpatched for any period of time is going to hurt sales, especially in the upcoming holiday season.

Secondly, there's the issue of no SDK or any real modding documentation.

I'm a JKA modder and specifically purchased JKA in the hopes of modding it like I did for JK2. I created the semi-popular Masters of the Force mod and hope to create something more popular for JKA.

Raven staff have repeatedly claimed in interviews that they created JKA to be more modder friendly than JK2 and that they want to provide more support to the modding community. It's evident from the game that the game does have more modder options. However, we have not been given the necessary tools (primarily the MP SDK) or real documentation to take advantage of most of what JKA has to offer. To be fair, a few Raven employees have been very helpful with specific questions, but this doesn't help the fact that we need the SDK to be able to do much more than add new maps, vehicles, and hilts.

Again, this will hurt current and future sales (including mine) if this is not remedied soon. Please do something about these issues immediately or I will be forced to take my entertainment dollars elsewhere in the future.

Tsaya
10-23-2003, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by Rumor:
EARTH TO TSAYA ITS BEEN A MONTH.
If you weren't so fast flaming every post and trying to offend everyone you might notice that I quoted the expression "immediate patch" and was merely answering to razorrace. But posting answers instead of flames is a concept you don't understand, isn't it?

Kurgan
10-23-2003, 12:13 PM
Reminder to everyone: Don't flame people, debate, but leave out the insults.

Prime
10-23-2003, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by g//plaZma
lol everyone's jumping on the Spider Al bandwagon headed for the land where 3 months is the minimum for a non pre-mature patch. The patching Al was refering to was for gameplay alterations. These issues are actual bugs, such as the MP server browser issue. These should be fixed as soon as possible...

SpaceButler13
10-24-2003, 12:26 AM
Yeah, balance change or no balance change, I don't care too much, assuming the only way to saber someone isn't flip-kicking them with a saber taped to your boot. But, I've already sent my complaint to LA about the game-killing bugs.

shukrallah
10-24-2003, 12:27 AM
Something i posted in a different thread:

Umm.. been thinking... do we "deserve" a patch. Think about it, id like one, but think about how many people have acted. Raven is probably sick of hearing are complaints, back when they did talk to us about what was happening was when half the community was complaining about it. Look at JKII, it split, half of the community like the "honor code" and the other half didnt, which made Raven have to choose sides for JA (which isnt easy, because they knew whoever didnt get all the stuff they wanted would complain) the proof is in the forums think about JKII, half the community wanted a patch, Raven took there ideas, then made the patch based on what the community wanted, then the communty didnt like it, and basically spat in Raven's face. Remember, they arent paid to make a patch (or... we arent paying for it)

The patch shouldnt bother with all this crap...

Heres what i suggest:

Fix the ATI card problems
Fix the server bug
Fix the skin bug
Fix the CD bug (you know for people who couldnt play, because the system wouldnt accept Disk 1, because of LA's CD security thing)

And any other bugs...

If all they do is fix the bugs, who can complain? In fact, i bet they would get thanked by the people experiencing these errors!

The rest of the people, can go get a refund. Why do they release modding/mapping/scripting tools? So if you dont like something, you change it, and quit complaining!

Id like other stuff, but someone else doesnt like what i like, and in the end, the game dies and no one plays it because we are all being selfish, and quit the game when we dont get what we want! Not all people, just some people.

Discuss??


ok, onto talking about what this thread...


Razorace... dont worry about it. Im sorry you cant mod right now, and i know you must be anxious to get your open jedi project up and running with some coding, but please try and have patience.



- The ingame browser is broken. Only about 15-30 of the 500+ JKA servers are showing for ANYONE. I don't even get ANY servers unless I toggle the server game filter from All to Jedi Academy and back whenever I refresh my server list. When servers (that honest people like myself pay for) aren't seen by the majority of the game's players, the server admins will eventually admit defeat and shut down their servers.

Thats definatly acceptable, and i agree completly. Like i said in my quoted statment at the top, this and the ati bug, and the cd bug need to be fixed. But im sure the reason for the CD bug is because of the leak in JA, and copied CDs. Remember, JKII SP was downloadable (no, i didnt DL it :rolleyes: mods, please excuse this, but im trying to get a point accross! I havnt seen the files, ive only heard about it). Thats why only the SP part of JA has this weird CD thing happen when you try to load it, before the console. It was because they lost money on JKII SP! That understandable, but its not fair to the people who have the error and bought the CD. That should get fixed as well as the MP Server bug, which i think is also a result of LA trying not lose money on the leaked beta.

People, whats the point of a business, any business, including Raven, LucasArts, Activision, etc... ? To make money. They must have lost a gigantic sum of money, on jk2 SP cracks, which made it downloadable, and the leaked JA beta. I can understand why they wouldnt want the source code and stuff released. Whos ganna quit buying?


- Several game features cause an unreasonable amount of slowdown vs. Jedi Knight 2. Joystick Force feedback is turned on by default and causes a significant frames per second (fps) drop. Dynamic Glow also causes a similar drop.

Thats an issue, but you could turn it off. The easiest way for raven to patch that is to take it out the menu **HINT HINT RAVEN**

Secondly, there's the issue of no SDK or any real modding documentation.

That depends on what your talking about. They did give us siege documentation, and something about models.

razorace
10-24-2003, 01:21 AM
Razorace... dont worry about it. Im sorry you cant mod right now, and i know you must be anxious to get your open jedi project up and running with some coding, but please try and have patience.

I've waited patiently for over a month and we've gotten little to nothing. Many other recent titles have received more support in a smaller time period than we have. Since we have payed equally for the same sort of product, it's not unreasonable to get a similar level of support.

It's much more honest and fair to be open about my displeasure instead of just quietly quit buying Raven/LucasArts games and taking my money elsewhere. Besides, I'd much rather get satisfaction with Raven/LucasArts than have to deal with boycotting them.

Thats an issue, but you could turn it off. The easiest way for raven to patch that is to take it out the menu **HINT HINT RAVEN**

While you can turn off the dynamic glow, you also lose some of the better eye candy in the game. Since similar games have glow options that work perfectly (Tron 2.0), it's not unreasonable for Raven to patch the thing so it doesn't cause major fps drops on most people's systems.

As for force feedback slowdown, they need to either turn it off by default in a patch or make a official statement that it's the source of a lot of many peoples' game slowdowns. Right now, a lot of people have been felt hanging with no information on why their game is running slower than JK2.

That depends on what your talking about. They did give us siege documentation, and something about models.

To be fair, that is true. But the stuff they have given us is fairly minimalistic (A lot of it was just old stuff from JK2) and only really relivent to mappers and modellers. As a codder, I'm totally stuck until we get the SDK.

shukrallah
10-24-2003, 01:38 AM
While you can turn off the dynamic glow, you also lose some of the better eye candy in the game. Since similar games have glow options that work perfectly (Tron 2.0), it's not unreasonable for Raven to patch the thing so it doesn't cause major fps drops on most people's systems.

I know its cool, but we can live without it.. heh, the game is made on an ageing system, and the graphics are still good enough to compete with games out now, when they are turned on medium.

To be fair, that is true. But the stuff they have given us is fairly minimalistic (A lot of it was just old stuff from JK2) and only really relivent to mappers and modellers. As a codder, I'm totally stuck until we get the SDK.

Well, they never really released any documentation for jk2, just the code. At least, not any that i know of. I can understand your ready to get your mods up and running. But think about it like this, your not ganna lose any time because no one else can code right now either. So theres really no competition yet, except for those annoying admin mods, that dont really contribute anything to the game anyways. Right now, you have time to plan your mod out, or if you have it all planned out, do some advertising, which i have seen you have some threads on BTW, and it look like an interesting project. I look forward to seeing and possibly contributing to it if i can. Do you accept maps? If so what kind would you accept? Maybe make a map pack from some really good mappers (my detail needs some work, but whos perfect right?) the community is crying for siege maps, I plan on taking that up after Christmas.

It will come out.. the question is when? Now wouldnt this look dumb if LA told raven that they could release this stuff tommorrow? Maybe there are still collecting data on the bugs, or perhaps they are harder to fix than it seems. I think it would be nice to get some feedback from raven, at least on the how far they have gotten on the editing stuff, or the patch.

Heres what ive learned from experience as a mapper/scripter: never give yourself a deadline. Too many times have a I said im almost done give me another week (to a clan) and then im still working a month later, because right after i say that the whole thing screws up.

I guess i shouldnt make excuses for Raven/LucasArts though... because I dont know what they are doing. And it isnt fair that LA has done this or that, for legal issues. But then again, these are just rumors. How do we know its because of these things? We dont.

Andy867
10-24-2003, 03:48 AM
Well, with my 2 cents, it may as well seem like more. The problem people have nowadays is that EVERYTHING MUST BE released now, not later. But Star Wars Galaxies is a PRIME example of what happens once the suits rush things, you release a buggy game that no one likes. And yes, Raven is aware of the in-game browser. SO WHO CARES? Its not like they can do anything when their hands are tied with LucasArts, who recently have gone through a company shake-up when their President resigned without any warning, or without any reason. So right now, the company has much BIGGER things to worry about than one game, like what is in store with the future of the company and how things will be handled. So until the issues with LA gets resolved, and with the release of the X-Box version next month, we may as well expect a patch next month, since economically speaking, it'd be easier to release the X-Box version simuntaneously with the patch. Raven is definitely trying to offer what support they can. They've already got the dedicated server files out, included a patched version for Linux users, and they've released the mapping tools, and I am sure they are working on getting the SDK ready, so that once LucasArts gets their stuff situated, they will then be able to focus on Raven and give they ok which will allow for a SPEEDY release. When i say speedy, itd be much faster to have Raven be working on it now so that they can release it when LucasArts says so, as opposed to waiting for Lucasarts and then working on it.

So from my point of view, I just enjoy using the All-seeing eye since I never really relied on the in-game browsers, even for Outcast. I figure taking away the game engine will allow for better support and reliability. Only thing I think I need is for an option for my dedicated server to detect if my server connection is lost and try to re-launch itself if it is down.

Rumor
10-24-2003, 05:16 AM
Originally posted by Tsaya
If you weren't so fast flaming every post and trying to offend everyone you might notice that I quoted the expression "immediate patch" and was merely answering to razorrace. But posting answers instead of flames is a concept you don't understand, isn't it?

since when is saying earth to someone a flame?

thats not really a concept you understand, is it?

FK | unnamed
10-24-2003, 05:38 AM
LA pretty much got out of the first party development scene because, quite frankly, their in-house team simply could not compete with the aggressive and innovative software development that was being done by other companies and teams at the time.

Now while I agree it was a smart move to have these third party teams like Raven develop their games, they should have taken a look around the software industry and observed how the most successful companies (id, blizzard, and valve) were constantly patching, communicating and supporting the products they sold.


If I'm supposed to somehow feel sorry for LA because the company is in turmoil, well call me cold, but I don't feel the least bit sorry for them.

It's the classic case of a big, out of touch, corporate giant not having the slightest clue about what the people buying their products want, and more importantly, being so arrogant that they feel that the name attached the product will generate enough revenue on it's own to justify a lack of quality control.

They put themselves in this position by having their collective heads up their colons and not paying attention to the changes and shifts in software industry.

Eight or nine years ago, you had limited choices in the way of computer games, but now the market is flooded with them.

Before you could rely on the "what else are they going to buy?" attitude, but now if a company does give their customer base what they want, those people can and will take their money elsewhere.

razorace
10-24-2003, 06:08 AM
But think about it like this, your not ganna lose any time because no one else can code right now either. So theres really no competition yet, except for those annoying admin mods, that dont really contribute anything to the game anyways.
I'm not concerned about the "competition", I'm worried about getting my money's worth and the community as a whole. If Raven/LucasArts had been up front and honest about this slow support cycle, I could have simply waited three months and gotten the game on discount.
Right now, you have time to plan your mod out, or if you have it all planned out, do some advertising, which i have seen you have some threads on BTW, and it look like an interesting project.
All the plans have been in place for sometime now. We're just waiting for the SDK and for the website and forums to get set up.
I look forward to seeing and possibly contributing to it if i can. Do you accept maps? If so what kind would you accept? Maybe make a map pack from some really good mappers (my detail needs some work, but whos perfect right?) the community is crying for siege maps, I plan on taking that up after Christmas.
Since maps can basically be downloaded seperately easily and effectively, we have no plans to include maps in the project unless we get something totally mind blowing. The intention of the project is to establish a development platform of materials and not be a "wow, these maps/models/etc are cool!" pack. :)

However, we are including mappers in the project. There's a lot of additional features that could be added for mapper use (additional vehicles/map entities/functions/etc) that we intend to provide a standard for. The idea is to prevent the hassle of having to package every vehicle you use and/or include a unique code mod just to do something fancy for your map. Instead, you can just add your vehicle/map mod to OJP, and instruct everyone to get the lastest OJP release (or compatible mod) to run your map.

It makes things easier for everyone and allows unique maps (like the old Saga maps) to be playable with OJP compatible mods (every mod that is based off the OJP code) instead of just with the mapper's custom code.
I think it would be nice to get some feedback from raven, at least on the how far they have gotten on the editing stuff, or the patch
That's my point. We need something official on the issue. If a patch is honestly going to take a while to create, that's fine. They just have to tell us that.

razorace
10-24-2003, 07:23 AM
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
LA pretty much got out of the first party development scene because, quite frankly, their in-house team simply could not compete with the aggressive and innovative software development that was being done by other companies and teams at the time.

I don't really think that was the case. LucasArts was a constant quality developer/publisher up to around 1999. That year Episode 1 came out and suddenly Star Wars was really popular again. I believe the suits came in, scared away all the talent, and then set up shop. LucasArts has suffered ever since.

Amidala from Chop Shop
10-24-2003, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by Andy867
Only thing I think I need is for an option for my dedicated server to detect if my server connection is lost and try to re-launch itself if it is down.

Hi Andy, this is what I use. It works very well:

http://serverdoc.com/

FK | unnamed
10-24-2003, 08:07 AM
What was the last Star Wars game they did 100% in-house (just curious, I can't remember off the top of my head)?

I remember even the SNES and the N64 console ports being done 3d party and the last 100% LA PC Star Wars game was the old JK1/MotS if I'm correct.

I'm not sure about Force Commander but I know Battle Grounds was built off AoE.

Maybe some of the E1 games were done in house, but as I recall they all were developed by 3d party teams.

Either way, they have not produced much in-house Star Wars product for quite a few years now.

Other companies were (at the time) pushing the envelope and experimenting with new things like open gl and such, but LA has never been a "cutting edge" company as far as the technology went and thus got left behind.

I think LA really took for granted that the "star wars" name was all they would ever need to sell games and when companies like id software really started pushing the importance of the technology contributing to the overall experience and other companies followed suit, LA pretty much had to throw in the towel because they had never invested much time in that area.



But beyond that, look at it like this for a second (back on topic):

LA does not really have much experience in true multiplayer games if you think about it.

Granted you had the old X-wing games and such, but when I say ďtrue multiplayerĒ Iím talking around the time quake world went live and online gaming exploded into basically what it is today.

Sure people could LAN and direct connect in those old games, but it really was not until quake 1, and a little later quake world came out that online gaming really took off with the general public.

Now that would basically give LA one game and one expansion worth of experience in terms of multiplayer support, before they called it quits.

And remember we are talking around the time of quake 1 and quake 2, and although Iím sure many people played Jedi Knight back in the day, the numbers in terms of the size of the community they had to support was much smaller simply due to the fact that the majority of people gaming at that time were playing quake 1/2 and little else.

Itís basically the same as today, millions are playing Counter-Strike and thousands are playing JK2/JA.

If LAís only experience in dealing with online gaming was a single game and itís expansion, and that community was a much smaller sect to begin with, itís no wonder they seem totally oblivious to their customers wishes.

If it just seems like the guy calling the shous @ LA is living in 1996 when it comes to being in touch with the mp gaming world... maybe he still is.