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View Full Version : So when is this newb friendly imbalanced game being patched?


Ryuken
10-23-2003, 06:38 AM
The balance issues in this game are so numerous, it makes me wonder if the game was even beta tested. It is like EVERYTHING in this game is wrong, it is just amazing. The hit-boxes are wrong, the sabre balance is wrong...hell, has anyone actually tested yellow stance properly? Left swings always missing, right doing huge damage...great job monkey beta testers, you earned your bananas. After 1.04 JO, with its near perfection, it was a kick to the gut to play this flawed product. Basically the only good thing is the removal of kick.

eniaC
10-23-2003, 07:05 AM
Hope these help
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115817
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115778
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115616
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115464
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=114808

have fun;)

eniaC

babywax
10-23-2003, 07:16 AM
1.04 = well balanced, but WAY too many nerfs.

SlapNut
10-23-2003, 07:35 AM
ive been playing for a long time and i havnt niticed any unballanced stuff, and whjats a nerf?

babywax
10-23-2003, 07:50 AM
You've been playing multiplayer and you haven't noticed anything that isn't balanced? Try switch between the saber styles.

A nerf is the major toning down of something, say I have a 100 damage attack, if someone nerfed that attack it would do say 25 damage.

BloodRiot
10-23-2003, 09:20 AM
Well I DO have to admit that the butterfly attacks for both the staff and duals are a major help in FFA and are quite deadly...

However, I've lost more fights with both of them as I do with single saber... but I can kill more with the single than both of them together.

From what i could gather... there are option to adjust hitboxes...so if the default setting is not the best, you can always adjust.. i've noticed this from server to server... on some servers, hitting is easier than others.

In my opinion, the damage between saber is good..not perfect but good... and the hitboxes can be adjusted so i dont think there's the need for a patch that focuses primarily on this... if the next patch includes a new hitbox default that's one thing... but for me the main thing a patch should fix right now is the infamous master server bug, the major game crashing issues and similar stuff.
I have also noticed that the ping average in JA is somewhat higher than it was in JO... I was quite amazed at JOs average ping rate when browsing the master server... if that has to do with the Mserver bug and im not viewing the lower ping game servers... that's one thing... but if not and if it's possible, i'd like to see some lower pings like i saw in JO.

For me, these issues are by far more important than any balance issue... and dont forget that if yer lagged out, it's quite understandable you can't hit the broad side of a barn.

Oh and I forgot... about this game being noob friendly...
well, if the defense is set too high then it becomes boring... if the damage is set too high, then people complain that it's not worth to practice since any random hit can kill you... the compromise is something in between like we have now... there are hits that can both kill in one move or just cause a slight scratch... to me it's not newb friendly... when i was newbie in JA i died constantly... now after lot's of practice i can handle my own and score some frags... but i still get fragged alot too. And I can tell a better player than me from a less skilled player... and believe me... it's not newb friendly.
Bottom line is... IMHO... the game is quite balanced. I'm a darksider... i use drain alot but i still get killed... i fought both lightsiders and darksiders... heal and drain alike dont keep them from getting fragged or frag me... it just extends the fight a lil longer....but that's just me.

Pnut_Man
10-23-2003, 09:50 AM
I've noticed that a majority of the damage scales on saber swings come from body hit detection. One head strike with yellow can kill an opponent, while hit to the legs would not a considerably lower amount.

I'd like to see the patch, but until then i'm having fun with the game. Even though it may be 'easier' for 'noobs', it's still possible to defeat them :D

Akshara
10-23-2003, 09:58 AM
Well stated, Bloodriot.

As a staff wielder, I'm way more nervous about encountering single saber wielders than duals. It'd be cool if all the JK2 single saber experts took a month and played staff only... it's a lot more difficult to use and score high frag counts than it seems when going up against experienced players.

I agree, the patch should address the more important issues. The game seems pretty balanced to me. I did play JK2 for quite awhile, and JA is a lot more enjoyable for saber fighting.

-----

ps. one upside of single is it's easy to thow quickly, and quite deadly. Sabers have to disable the second blade first, which is a dead give away what's about to happen.

Edit: Meant to say Staves have to disable the second blade first before throwing.

babywax
10-23-2003, 10:45 AM
Dual sabers don't have to disable a blade first.

Staff does almost as much damage as a red slash, it is much, much much much, easier than single. If you want proof, go to the SLK barfathon server, there's a guy in there named Elite, he is good with a staff.

Another thing is that throws can kill in one hit, I've almost got this down, it's extremely annoying(for the dead person).

Kurgan
10-23-2003, 11:56 AM
"Nerfing" for sabers is an utter non-issue as far as I'm concerned, because with a simple console command you can make attacks do as much damage as they did in JK2 1.02.

Flip kicks are gone yes, but.... honestly, tough beans, you'll just have to learn a different playing style.

Except for the Sabers Only Full Force CTF Sect, I would think the kick would be more of a "n00b friendly" move anyway.... because you never need to draw your saber in a battle, just keep kicking away!

But that's just me. You can always hope it'll be added as an optional cvar in the patch or else make a mod to add it in from single player (yes, it's available in single player).

A patch should be released to fix major bugs like the server bug that only displays a tiny fraction of the available servers, the rocket bug and some skin bugs. The "gameplay imbalances" sorry to say are mostly whining and as you saw with JK2, most of the changes they make will just cause more whining, they will NEVER please everybody.

Remember a ton of people HATED 1.04 and refused to use it. Every patch had its detractors... I don't see how it will be any different this time around.

And of course, we all know the reason the patch is delayed is because its up to LA to decide if and when one gets released.

So Email Raven and LA and tell them how you feel, but don't be surprised if they repeat what I just said. : (

BloodRiot
10-23-2003, 02:12 PM
I'd be surprised if they did answer at all.:rolleyes:

Raven can't say a word without LA saying OK first...and LA doesn't give a rat's @ss about your thought's of inbalance.

Also I do agree with Kurgan... most of the imbalance comments are nothing more than whining. And I wouldn't find better words to describe the backlash of the unsatisfied players that get their game ruined by a patch as before.

To be honest I used to find the single saber completely underpowered when i first played online... but i didn't whine about it...and ironically I ditched staff over single to try to prove to most of the people that complained about the single being overpowered that they were wrong... to my surprise.. they WERE wrong...

Single DOES take longer to master cuz it doesn't have infinite combos or other similar things... but once controlled Single can stand up to any other saber. It has become my favorite saber.
Nowadays I get owned if i try to play wiuth staff most of the times cuz I feel so limited and the only damn thing i can use to score a frag is the butterfly... the duals are a mistery to me as well... never did like that style very much either way so i didn't try it very much either.

I do get fragged by people using staff and duals as well as fellow single saberists... i can only conclude all are evenly matched... you simply have to master the one you like best. It all comes down to the wielder and not the weapon.

Cheers.

babywax
10-23-2003, 03:12 PM
Single is evenly matched against itself ;)
I have yet to meet a dual saberist of equal skill to me.
And staff... well, a lot of times it's easy to be a staff user, but most suck. There are a few staff users who are VERY good, and staff does about 1.75x the damage of a yellow single saber strike, has more defense, and has infinite loops. Couple that against the fact that it's almost impossible to hit it with anything besides red, and you have a problem. That problem is that when running backwards you run slowly, when running away forwards you have an open back. Someone skilled with staff can beat almost any single saberist.

<SLK> BaRfAtHoN 3 has a few skilled staff users there, specifically one name Elite.


To Kurgan:
You're right, saber scale does help, but the BASE game needs to be balanced. More than 75% of the servers out there don't utilize this feature, and when they do utilize it, they use different levels, so it's hard to have a consistant gameplay experience.

ManaMana
10-23-2003, 03:17 PM
The game havent been out for so long yet, there isn't a really good user in all sabers... Only old JO players :P ...

eniaC
10-23-2003, 04:10 PM
Single saber Kicks A**. You just have to know the right counters and openings for the various moves(blue uppercut works marvels:) ), it has the most variety with the moves and styles. It is the hardest to use though(shouldn't it be?, 1 blade vs. 2) but it is more precise when you do hit. The trick is staying away from the staffers inbetween swings(f.y.i. yellow stance is best against staffers, but you should never use one style for more than 4 or 5 moves or they will find your weakness), the trick with dual sabers is blue(it has the best defense of the stances, and can strike blows inbetween the fast swings of dual. Wait for the twirls, jabs, and barriers and go in with the uppercut. Other single saberist are the hardest opponents I've fought with the fights lasting much longer on average.

In ffa once again the uppercut works great on a group of people if you can get in there(good luck on the high saber damage servers, you'll get slaughtered), gotta love those katas to, hmmm lets see, single has three, staff has 1, and dual has that barrier(might as well put a sign on your back that says jab me;) ).

Though I still do best with dual in true ffa, I like single for it's variety and the ability to strike the hit boxes better, I just have'nt seen frags racked up with it like I've seen with staff or dual, yet .

In conclusion single rules, and if they made it any stronger, you would all suffer, muahaha.

*edited* Yes I have tested yellow pretty extensively and I've found it to be less superior than JO. I've landed the cartwheel thingy only a few times, and you stand too long idlely after the move(I loved that move :(). But, it has that new nifty kata :) which covers a larger area than the other two single katas(except in blue stance as soon as you go into kata, hold cruch forward and strike and end of kata, pretty nice combo if used correctly and timed right,{this can be done with dual as well by deactivating one blade while in twirl and apply the same technique. There are to many moves to go on and I'm not giving away all my strategies. think the game is balanced fine, except for the fact that the staffers look like they do just as much damage to themselves with opposite blade as the striking one, hence the staff jab.

eniaC

Darth Rosh's {R^S} Server - |24.26.141.235|

babywax
10-23-2003, 04:27 PM
You can't run away from a staff user while open, they run faster. You're running backwards and you have a red swing going on, for those reasons you run much more slowly that they will.

eniaC
10-23-2003, 04:30 PM
I never said run, I said stay way (jump, croch, roll);)

eniaC

Doctor Shaft
10-23-2003, 07:49 PM
After many months of reading about it, discussing it, etc.. i've just decided that the saber discussion is just simply dead.

No one plays the same game anymore. JO/JA is simply too 'subjective' in every sense of the word. There are servers that love low damage, because they don't care for anything simulating a 'deadly' sword fight, while others would prefer just that (such as myself).

I simply don't even like to entertain the idea of people surviving a single, well placed saber swing, though I usually tolerate up to 2 with most swings, and up to the 3 with the fast ones, though even then, it bothers me.

Of course, what does it matter? In the end, JA is so hard to find a place where people are at peace with the game settings. Some people want to see sabers fly and don't like to pay for the mistakes in the fight... others want to play a game where almost only one mistake can be made.

I'll come out and admit it now... I don't even have JA. I played JO extensively... i played the JA demo, and then i've been browsing the forums, just trying to see how things are playing out.

So far, I'm on the tipping scale of buying the game finally and joining in the 'fun'. I do this only because I see people posting the server types out there, like Sokar, of course also Kaia, who runs an excellent server (i'd played forcemod2 a bit there, but got caught up in other things), and amidalachopshop seems to 'cater' to my needs as well as kurgan. anyone that's got a quick death, use your wits and your smarts to avoid being slammed to the ground, something closer to the adrenaline rush of 'reality', i like it. So the fact that there are like minded people out there make me want to go and take the plunge and get the stupid thing.

But back to my point. Saber damage smaber damage. Look, we're never going to reach a consensus. I want my sword to be A SWORD... you want yours to be a 'balanced' game of tournament style fighting. First to 3 points. I hate that style. We might as well just stop complaining about it I guess. Just get our bug fixes and be on our seperate ways.

Kurgan
10-23-2003, 11:14 PM
You make a good point Doc, there are a lot of people out there and we all have different preferences.

A lot of people don't even realize just how customizable JA and JK2 really are.

The trouble is finding a server that meets your needs. However, with ASE and Qtracker you can see over 500 servers. Surely one or two of them will have settings you like.

We'll never have a community that's perfectly united in agreement about what's the "best" or "most fun" way to play JA.

Some people will always prefer dueling, while others will always prefer team games and others FFA. Some will hold to their honor codes, while others prefer to play a competative game with no rules beyond what the server sets. And a small minority would rather Role Play than fight.

And some mods will be liked more than others, while others will shun mods altogether. But that doesn't have to be a weakness.. it can be a strength. The community is made up of all kinds of people because the game offers so many options.

So long as there is one server out there that has the settings you want, you should be okay.

shukrallah
10-23-2003, 11:52 PM
Umm.. been thinking... do we "deserve" a patch. Think about it, id like one, but think about how many people have acted. Raven is probably sick of hearing are complaints, back when they did talk to us about what was happening was when half the community was complaining about it. Look at JKII, it split, half of the community like the "honor code" and the other half didnt, which made Raven have to choose sides for JA (which isnt easy, because they knew whoever didnt get all the stuff they wanted would complain) the proof is in the forums ;) think about JKII, half the community wanted a patch, Raven took there ideas, then made the patch based on what the community wanted, then the communty didnt like it, and basically spat in Raven's face. Remember, they arent paid to make a patch (or... we arent paying for it)

The patch shouldnt bother with all this crap...

Heres what i suggest:

Fix the ATI card problems
Fix the server bug
Fix the skin bug
Fix the CD bug (you know for people who couldnt play, because the system wouldnt accept Disk 1, because of LA's CD security thing)

And any other bugs...

If all they do is fix the bugs, who can complain? In fact, i bet they would get thanked by the people experiencing these errors!

The rest of the people, can go get a refund. Why do they release modding/mapping/scripting tools? So if you dont like something, you change it, and quit complaining!

Id like other stuff, but someone else doesnt like what i like, and in the end, the game dies and no one plays it because we are all being selfish, and quit the game when we dont get what we want! Not all people, just some people.

FK | unnamed
10-24-2003, 02:20 AM
the thing is there ARE mod teams ready to get to work.

Now what are these mod teams going to do?

Put in emotes?
purple and neon pink sabers with 47 foot tall yoda models?

Nope, well I'm sure we will see that but the =X= mod team and the red slushie (yeah that is their name) mod team are going to work on the game play issues.

Raven just needs to fix the browser issue and those various hardware issues that have been listed many times.


To hell with game play changes, no one is going to be happy so just leave base game play alone for those who are happy now and those of us who are not will get our fix via mods.


The key to that is the mp SDK being released.

And right now, looking at number of players who are online playing this game at any given time, well, it looks more like the number of people who would be playing a 3 year old game rather than one that is only 30+ days old.

Things are going down hill pretty fast, many people think there are very few servers running (browser problem) and many others just do not like the game play but would be willing to give things a second shot through a mod.

Problem is, if neither a patch or the SDK (or at least an official word on either) is going to be released any time soon, with many new big name games about to come out, it's going to pretty much kill any hope this game has.

eniaC
10-24-2003, 03:58 AM
The game is a beautiful piece of work, as stated previously, but rarely. These guys I'm sure put alot of work into how they beliaved the game should be balanced, and seriously who are we to question them?

The maps are beautiful (like having my own zen garden online)

It's Mod friendly (Including JO mods)

Siege (sweet, objective based combat)

could go on...

But the fact remains, just like FK | Unnamed stated, there is alot of games due around the corner(Halo, HalfLife, unreal for FPS'ers and FFXI and Middle Earth Online for RPG'ers and others like Junk Metal and VTM:Bloodlines), there might not be that many folks sitting around for the game to improve(except me), and the only thing I dislike are people not being able to find servers and the stupid argument of honors and the meaning of ffa.


:sithm:
eniaC


shock1Darth Rosh's {R^S} Server |24.26.141.235|shock1

Prime
10-24-2003, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
Raven just needs to fix the browser issue and those various hardware issues that have been listed many times. To me, this is the single biggest issue in JA today.

Originally posted by FK | unnamed
To hell with game play changes, no one is going to be happy so just leave base game play alone for those who are happy now and those of us who are not will get our fix via mods.I think this is the best way to cater to everyone.

Originally posted by FK | unnamed
Things are going down hill pretty fast, many people think there are very few servers running (browser problem) This is so true. The longer the delay, the worse the problem gets...

shukrallah
10-24-2003, 06:34 PM
Well, there have been a gigantic number of complaints, here, and i think i saw something on the ravensoft forum. So naturally, anyone who is thinking about buying the game would probably use a search enginge and find this forum, hear the complaints and decide not to buy it... I agree the broswer problem first...

The problems that prevent people from playing the game should be fixed... and thats all. (i personnally would like a new siege map, but the in game problems need to be fixed first) we can wait for the community for siege maps.

noide
10-24-2003, 07:05 PM
JK3 got owned :blueblas1

Dreamline
10-25-2003, 09:31 AM
Ryuken wrote:
..hell, has anyone actually tested yellow stance properly?

Beyond making sure that it still showed up in the saber attack
cycle? Probably not.

Staff single medium and single saber medium are not
very similar. The damage has been ramped up for staff medium,
and the default swing is a horizontal right-to-left. Collision
detection has been improved, and with it the undocumented
feature of random invisible saber collision detection, where
you will suddenly make contact with a saber that simply
dosent exist.

One thing they do have in common is the deflection rate,
which remains consistant vs. all stances (including itself).
With a horizontal or angled right to left swing, there is a
90% chance you will be deflected. This was a property of "the
new" medium stance introduced in 1.03. 5 minutes of play testing
medium would have revealed this irrational characteristic.

The block/parry logistics for single medium vs. single strong
are (and have been) fundamentally flawed. If im swinging
a sword at your head at any angle from (my) left to right the
only way to maintain a solid neck to head relationship would
be to swing from the same direction at the opposite angle.
Unfortunately, this isnt the case when it comes to medium
vs. strong. The player using medium and executing what
the thinking population would expect to be the correct
swing to block or parry is either: a) deflected, taking
a fair amount of damage, or b) dismayed by the
implementation of "now you see it, now you don't" ghoul2
collision detection in multiplayer. What leads me to
believe that this is a logical error as opposed to a bug
is that by swinging from both the opposite direction and
angle, there is a 100% chance you will stop the swing and
not take a single point of damage (but you will more than likely be
deflected, of course, and killed by the chained swing). Given
the very frightening lack of imagination some strong stance
users showcase by executing the same left-to-right 3 swing
chain over and over, (not to mention the nerve of accusing
everyone else of spamming) and the only effective counter being
a swing in a direction that defies common sense, what you
eventually end up with is an unintentional imbalance amongst
the single saber stances (if you will).

With most of the issues here having been introduced with the
first patch for the last version of the game, and not having
been fixed in the second patch for the last version of the game,
and making it all the way into the latest version of the game,
the answer to your question should be obvious.

SlapNut
10-25-2003, 01:54 PM
acctually i have noticed something, i katad thig guy and he killed me with one strong stance hit and killed me with my full health, hmmm

Comm539
10-25-2003, 02:07 PM
Putting my views on duel sabers and staffs being for button mashers aside, I think all saber combat needs to be pathed regarding hit deflection. In JO the boundary was quite clear: When you attack, your open to be attacked, when your not swinging, your basically safe (besides a downwards hack or a side swing followed by a second etc.).
The JA physics appear unclear and almost random. You can be stood still and the single hit can take 50hp. Other times you can swing your saber, but the enemies swing at you hits but does no damage. The physics are unclear and tempermental. This is a major reason why JA s/o combat favours unskillful players; Theres nothing to learn, no skill atm. Combat can be won or lost
randomly.

Finally, saber staff/duel sabers have no combo limit. Your already at a disadvantage with single saber by being outnumbered with blades. But for some strange reason (more proof of copy and pasted code from JK2) single sabers have a combo limit and the others dont. Single should either do more dmage or the duel and staff should have a combo limit (ie. 3 swings).

babywax
10-25-2003, 02:39 PM
3 seems a little low, I think it should be equal to single saber medium.

Comm539
10-25-2003, 02:56 PM
well 3 combo limit would be like 6 swings with staff with 2 sabers on each end.
I definately think duel saber limit should be cut down, other wise you can just stand there and spam underneath the enemy.

Kurgan
10-26-2003, 04:36 PM
Single sabers are just fine.

Fast Stance has infinite chains (or if it's limited its a super high number, I didn't test it forever to see).

Plus you get three katas, two of which have some forward movement with them. Plus with Strong stance you can knock people's sabers away.

And yes, it IS possible to knock the fully ignited staff away onto the ground (only seen it happen ones.. and it was from a concussion rifle to the face, but it's probably possible to do it in duels as well).

Just the other night I was playing Lightside with single saber (just had Fast and Medium... Saber Attack wasn't high enough for Strong) and I easily won the match with Kata spamming, lunges (with Fast), and back slashes (with Medium)... and this was against Dual and Saberstaff Darkside users. I'm not saying I'm a great player or anything, but if it's really so "n00b friendly" and single sabers are so useless I shouldn't have won by such a large margin!

g//plaZma
10-26-2003, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by noide
JK3 got owned :blueblas1

By a shock combo. :cool:

:fire3: :blueblas1

Akshara
10-26-2003, 05:11 PM
And yes, it IS possible to knock the fully ignited staff away onto the ground

I've had the staff knocked out of my hands in a duel three times, always by a single saberist. So I can confirm that it's possible.

Putting my views on duel sabers and staffs being for button mashers aside

As someone who has logged approximately 150 hours online using saberstaff exclusively, I have to say this is ridiculous. The only way a noob with a saberstaff can rack up lots of frags is if they're playing other noobs. No offense, but you obviously aren't a very good player.

:p

Sorry... couldn't resist that one.

One of the many ways that the combos of the saberstaff are countered is with the fact that it autoblocks when not attacking about as well as a stick of butter. Plus the single saber allows one to move in any direction during the katas and specials, which is highly unpredictable - with saberstaff, every single special has a predestined course of movement that cannot be altered once the move is committed (except at two points along the butterfly), which is highly predictable and easy to exploit by someone with patience and timing.

If I don't move out of the way when a Red Stance swings, it always breaks through my block and causes at least some damage - period.

Theres nothing to learn, no skill atm. Combat can be won or lost randomly.

The reason it's now possible for a random attack to work is because LA knows that a big part of the target audience for Jedi ACADEMY are kids between the ages of 8 and 15 who read the Jedi Academy young adult books, and they want them to be able to win sometimes too.

But even with that, it's still the one with the most skill and better timing who comes out on top. The higher noise floor should simply be considered as a challenge to overcome. Your a JO master... should be a piece of cake for you.

babywax
10-26-2003, 05:44 PM
The main problems I see are this, these are problems from playing against good experienced players, as experienced as they come (JO, and JA since it was released):


General comments for all sabers - I would like to see NO blocking when swinging, it makes it simpler and gives a big disadvantage to using red stance. The only thing that should stop a swing mid-attack is a saber lock IMHO. Saber damage should be vamped up a little. I think all blocking should be very good when you are not attacking. It would make the game seem more logical, and less random than it seems now.

Single Saber (I use single saber) - Overall I think this has a very good balance, I think that other styles should be raised/lowered in power to meet this.

Dual Sabers - These, although very easy for a newbie, are not good going one on one. They are pitiful in one on ones, only good move they have is the backstab, which basically is too powerful. It kills in one hit pretty much whereever it hits. I don't really know what to do to make it better, it seems to kill in single hits sometimes and then other times do about 5-10 damage per hit. They're just about useless in a duel. I've met about four people who are good with them, and they're not always good, not really due to them playing differently, but the duals just seem to do different damage every time.

Staff - This has very well balanced katas, and most special moves. The butterfly does way too much damage I think, it does more damage than the darned kata, and costs 25 less force points. The single swings (slashes, left-right, top-bottom etc) are overpowered. They need to be toned down relative to the other sabers. They do almost as much damage as a red swing, but in less than half the time with unlimited chains. I've gone straight up against a staff user, and swung 3 reds, every one of them staying in their body almost the whole swing. He won. I didn't even get my third swing completely off, he killed me before it hit him.

As a side note, I generally play in FFA's. I usually fight one opponent at a time (no, I don't sit around waiting for duels, I just fight, and go run around looking for someone else), sometimes it's a 3 way. I usually win, because there aren't very many skilled opponents out there that I see right now, I think most stayed with JO for some reason. Slowly I'm seeing more and more good people. Maybe it's just the servers I play in though... I play under the name aristeed, if you see me ask me to a duel, I love a good fight :)

Syzerian
10-26-2003, 09:28 PM
well id like to fill u in on something that happened to me last night
i was playing a no force saber only server and some guy was killing everysingle person in one hit even from places far out of reach and everyone was saying he was doing a bug expliot
then some guy was just standing in the middle of a room with his saber up so i thought what the hell ill just attack him so i changed to red stance and did 8 straight downward attacks right down the middle and a DFA untill he died then i went to fight the other guys with 100 shield and health and killed in 3 hits there is seriously something wrong here

Comm539
10-26-2003, 09:32 PM
ehm I never said the button mashers got kills. I just said that duel and staff are for button mashers. As is blue stance single. I've been beaten once by a staff, once by duel and quite a lot more by single. Hence the duel and staff are for button mashers running round screaming "dool me!!!11111oneonetwotwo"
This is my view. Dont even bother arguing with me boy (/girl), I dont care what you think and you wont change my opinion >/

Because of the obvious blocking and damage flaws, few duellers bothered to go to JA. Even fewer ff duellers (as you can drain back health quicker than damaging). Dont get me wrong, the games promising, it just needs fixing.

Kurgan
10-27-2003, 01:50 AM
Well keep playing JK2 then. ; )


Just had to say it...

AxVegetA
10-27-2003, 02:03 AM
I use single but i know duals and staff are not for buton smashers. You must have been playing for too long with noobs to make those asumptions.

The game is perfectly balanced.

I have tested all the crap u all were saying about MP when the game was released and its absolutely false. I could notice also that the people that complained about gameplay are mostly second class noobs that dont realize their reality (first class noobs are the ones on their way to padawan).
I must say that single saber is the best, till i am proven wrong (in the game, not in words).

The only things that suck in the game are bugs and the fact that every server have a diferent settings like saber damage scale, force regen time and also they disable some powers like lightning, mindtrick, saber throw, etc.
I just dont join servers with increased saber damage, the reason? the same i dont download mods.

Darth_Misery
10-27-2003, 04:10 PM
I've been playing JA MP non-stop since the release and the only things that, in my opinion, need to be fixed in a patch are:

1.) The Master Server bug for the in-game browser.
2.) The sound clipping that is present in large-scale fights (10+ players).
3.) The netcode (needs to be tightened or adjusted a bit; the Ghoul2 hit detection seems a little too ping-dependant).

As far as the saber combat itself, I say leave it the way it is. The 3 saber types are very well balanced. What I'm seeing on the JA servers now is a similar sight that you could see in JK2:

A large majority of players utilize a very small portion of the available moves, use practically none of the defensive options and rely primarily on flashy specials/katas to get kills.

....in short, predictable and easy to figure out. The players that really scare the hell out of me are those who use the saber as a precision instrument and those players are usually always at the top of the scoreboard. Why? Because they took the time to learn the game inside and out. No one move in the game is guaranteed to make your score higher. It's the synthesis of all the available offensive, defensive and positioning options that really makes the difference. With that set of skills at your fingertips, no saber type has any advantage whatsoever over another.

So yeah, there are some technical issues that should be addressed but leave the combat engine alone. If you think that the combat is skewed, my suggestion is to patch yourself.

tunafish
10-27-2003, 05:29 PM
Saber combat is fine, if you're getting beat down then switch, but good players will always find a weakness in whichever stance you choose.

Qaz
10-27-2003, 07:27 PM
The only imbalance in saber combat is the uselessnes of ground stabs. LIVE WITH IT...

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=114510


Read, all of the posts comedown pretty much to that the sabercombat is balanced.

AxVegetA
10-28-2003, 07:41 AM
Yeah ground stabs suck bad.
I wish the patch add some new way to throw people down. The only way u can do that now is kicking with staff or push/pull some noob with level 1 or 2 pp :(

FK | unnamed
10-28-2003, 08:06 AM
This game needs the panzer from RTCW: ET

SpecialForces
10-28-2003, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by Ryuken
The balance issues in this game are so numerous, it makes me wonder if the game was even beta tested. It is like EVERYTHING in this game is wrong, it is just amazing. The hit-boxes are wrong, the sabre balance is wrong...hell, has anyone actually tested yellow stance properly? Left swings always missing, right doing huge damage...great job monkey beta testers, you earned your bananas. After 1.04 JO, with its near perfection, it was a kick to the gut to play this flawed product. Basically the only good thing is the removal of kick.
DONT START FLAMING AT ME OK!
but maybe your just a noob and need to realern moves and stuff... on jk2 I would always do better with right movments than left because im right handed.....
I cant even do a left wall run.... lol

eniaC
10-28-2003, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
This game needs the panzer from RTCW: ET


and the flamethrower :D