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View Full Version : Can hosts use the force in a no force server?


Remirol Nacnud
10-29-2003, 02:39 PM
I was just playing on a no force, sabre only server.
Earlier in the game I saw someone with a luke skin use force drain, but I thought nothing of it.

So I'm fighting some guy with dual sabres and someone with a luke skin is standing by(sabre put away) watching.
Before I know it I'm being force choked and held over a hole in the floor, then left to fall to my death.

I've heard nothing about cheats from these forums, so didn't expect any to exist.

Is this the host, a cheat, or something else?

Kurgan
10-29-2003, 03:04 PM
Normally if a server has any power disabled then it applies to ALL PLAYERS regardless of if they are the admin or vip's.

The same thing applied to JK2.

Check.. if he can use the power, so should you be able to.


If cheats are enabled, you can use them too, not just the host.


Back in the JK2 days there were some (stupid) mods created that let the host effectively use certain cheats (freezing players, killing them instantly, taking away their weapons or force, teleporting them outside the map so they were stuck, etc) they could also "empower" people, giving them stupid cheat-esque powers like being able to grip others on the other end of the map, etc.

Anyway, none of those mods have been made for JA yet, but I'm guessing (sadly) when the SDK comes out they will, simply because those people like to do stuff like that and give themselves a cheap power-trip on their servers. ; p


But for now, this thing shouldn't be happening. You're probably just mistaken.

Remirol Nacnud
10-29-2003, 03:14 PM
I did a check that I couldn't use the force. I went into 'force powers' and coultn't increase any powers(there was just the basic jumping power, attack, defence etc).

^4TnG^7}{^1F^7ight^1C^7lub (62.93.201.152:27000)
it was on, btw.

It doesn't really matter, I'll just avoid that server in future. Although, as soon as I can(the server is full right now) I'll go on again to check that cheats aren't enabled, etc.

AJL
10-29-2003, 03:31 PM
Yes they can... Hosts can easily get force powers which are
disabled for others in jedi academy....

Samuel Dravis
10-29-2003, 03:55 PM
How?

AJL
10-29-2003, 04:13 PM
Do you REALLY want me to tell that here where everyone can
hear... (If I would I am pretty sure that all those guys who use
this kind of exploits but doesn't know about this one yet would
take full benefit of it from now on...) :eek:

Luc Solar
10-29-2003, 04:36 PM
Oh man... so JA has a built-in admin mod. Greeeaat. Now every 9-year old admin out there can "punish all those lamers" for not playing right...

Remirol Nacnud
10-29-2003, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by AJL
Do you REALLY want me to tell that here where everyone can
hear... (If I would I am pretty sure that all those guys who use
this kind of exploits but doesn't know about this one yet would
take full benefit of it from now on...) :eek:
Ofcourse, don't say a thing.
But report it to Lucas arts or PM one of the mods with full details of how to do it.

Master William
10-29-2003, 05:47 PM
Strange... Yeah he probably exploited some bug or cheat. About the admin mods, they were great against ignorant people who joined the server and refused to follow the Server Rules that me and my friends had set on the MOTD.

We kept telling him/her to stop, but he/she just went on a rampage and wouldn't stop. So we played around with her/him and finally kicked her/him.

It's not like we abuse it. I ran into that in JK2 a couple of days ago, I was accused of ''laming'' when in fact one of the admins had lamed me, so I got the blame and I was /amfreeze:d and all that. So I just called them alot of nasty bad things and disconnected before they got to answer.

Kurgan
10-29-2003, 07:09 PM
No, Admin Mods were pathetic and lame, period.

There's no reason to "amslap" or "bunny" anybody, a simple warning, kick or ban is sufficient. The purpose of those moves is to keep somebody in your server but humiliate them. It's also an easy way for the admin to cheat (ditto for emotes).

It was made for egomaniacal 12 year olds to get their jollies off of "punishing" people who don't "obey their rules" or who just beat them too badly.

Convenient that you can't tell us how its done... PM me if you know how it's done and I'll report it to Raven right away. You should report it to Raven anyway, because if its in there its definately an exploit. Trying to keep it a secret won't last long, because plenty of people will just leak the info through bragging and it'll ruin more games.

Why would Raven want the Admin to cheat in Multiplayer? That's stupid. That would mean he could give his admin password to all his friends and they could all cheat! Talk about stupid...

FK | unnamed
10-29-2003, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
No, Admin Mods were pathetic and lame, period.

There's no reason to "amslap" or "bunny" anybody, a simple warning, kick or ban is sufficient. The purpose of those moves is to keep somebody in your server but humiliate them. It's also an easy way for the admin to cheat (ditto for emotes).

It was made for egomaniacal 12 year olds to get their jollies off of "punishing" people who don't "obey their rules" or who just beat them too badly.

Wudan
10-29-2003, 08:42 PM
AdminMod was and is the most run mod for JK2.

It's creator has already stated that he's not going to put in commands that allow admin abuse.

KaiaSowapit
10-29-2003, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by AJL
Yes they can... Hosts can easily get force powers which are
disabled for others in jedi academy....
I'm fairly skeptical. That's a pretty bold statement to take on pure faith. I'd like some verification on this.

Personally, what I think may be the culprit is JK2 & Academy's false reporting of "no force." Disabling ANY Force power (like lightning for example) results in the server being listed as "force disabled." Same for guns - disable something like the Merr Sonn and the server is listed as "saber only."

I wish the in-game browser was a little more detailed and user-friendly so there'd be less confusion about issues like these. Then again, I'd be happy if the darn thing worked to start with. (LucasArts, Raven... whoever is dragging your heels on fixing the browser bug, PLEASE get your act together! At the very least, make a public announcement that you acknowledge there's a PROBLEM.)

FK | unnamed
10-29-2003, 09:19 PM
any chance the guy who posted this got confused by the "force powers disabled" message on the MOTD?

you know even if you just disable one power it will say that, thus causing confusion to new players.

/edit

same thing he said ^

Rad Blackrose
10-29-2003, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by Wudan
AdminMod was and is the most run mod for JK2.

It's creator has already stated that he's not going to put in commands that allow admin abuse.

http://www.ascendancy.net/tribalwar/callbs.jpg

In all seriousness..

I'm calling the writer's bluff. So much crap was programmed into the JA admin mods that's easily trasferable. All it takes is the SDK and a little tweaking, and we got the VAM/JA users back.

So even if people don't program the abusive admin commands in, there are people *cough BOTF cough* who end up ripping and creating them anyways.

Master William
10-29-2003, 11:10 PM
Kurgan... ''No it is lame, period.''

What's up with that? Don't be a joy eater... I have seen this at these forums alot... many people are totally against server rules like ''saber down means no attack'' which I think is better than some jedi version of UT2003. Besides, when that happens, it lags for everyone with 10 sabers in the same spot.

And now, no admin mods? Thank god there still is joyful modders!

*waits for Rads big flame post*

FK | unnamed
10-30-2003, 12:44 AM
William the admin mod problem is something that is directly related to the general attitude, albeit it childish, of a large portion of the Jedi Knight community.

And the indisputable fact remains that the majority of people who abuse those mods just happen to be of the "saber off = peace" mentality.


Don't think for a second "admin mods" are specific to, or were born from Jedi Outcast.

Many other games like Return to Castle Wolfenstein (and the free mp expansion Enemy Territory) have had admin mods like the "shrub mod" for quite some time.

And yes these mods to have features like "slap" in them as well.

That said, the number of times I have played in RTCW/ET servers and seen admin functions abused to degrade players can be counted on a single hand.


Now look at Jedi Outcast...

The number of times I have gone into servers running these mods and NOT seen people abused and degraded by the admins can be counted on a single hand.


The general overall attitude of the "saber off = peace" crowd can be summed up in this one singe word:

MOMMY!



You know the funny thing is, if the "honor" crowd would just grow up and stop acting like sniveling, whiny little apron clinging brats, maybe people would actually respect their rules and abide by them.

But choking a guy (who may have just connected to his first server for his first online game in JK2) in mid-air with a rcon command he has no ability to get out of (can we say no different than a client side hack anyone?), and standing over his body saying things like "YOU ****ING LAMER ****Y" tends to just make people a little less than receptive to your whims.

Not to mention that is one hell of a great way to welcome players to the "community" don't you think?

:rolleyes:

Master William
10-30-2003, 12:54 AM
LOL sorry but the last part of your post made me laugh (really)...

I can just imagine it... a guy named Padawan not knowing what the heck is going on, runs around hacking people with blue stance... *laughs alot*

Umm. Yes, you are right at some points, but I don't run around acting immature and whine. If someone decides to break the rules in my gameservers.net server and kill me, I give them a few warnings, and tell them the server rules. If they don't listen after a warning or two, that's their fault.

The only time I will use that /amslap thing is when people are REALLY out of control and are impossible to stop. Not like ''omg u took 1 hp of me when i was typing omg wtf BAN KICK SLAP!!!!11''

:)

g//plaZma
10-30-2003, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
But choking a guy (who may have just connected to his first server for his first online game in JK2) in mid-air with a rcon command he has no ability to get out of (can we say no different than a client side hack anyone?), and standing over his body saying things like "YOU ****ING LAMER ****Y" tends to just make people a little less than receptive to your whims.

Speaking of client-side hacks... A client-side hack to get out of that admin mod stuff would be nice... hmmm... ;)

FK | unnamed
10-30-2003, 01:33 AM
Originally posted by Master William
LOL sorry but the last part of your post made me laugh (really)...

I can just imagine it... a guy named Padawan not knowing what the heck is going on, runs around hacking people with blue stance... *laughs alot*

Umm. Yes, you are right at some points, but I don't run around acting immature and whine. If someone decides to break the rules in my gameservers.net server and kill me, I give them a few warnings, and tell them the server rules. If they don't listen after a warning or two, that's their fault.

The only time I will use that /amslap thing is when people are REALLY out of control and are impossible to stop. Not like ''omg u took 1 hp of me when i was typing omg wtf BAN KICK SLAP!!!!11''

:)

And that I have zero problem with.

But behavior like what you just stated you do is by far the exception to the rule; it's not the way the vast majority of people who run those mods behave.

Now I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe things *are different on your side of the ocean when it comes to general behavior in public servers on the part of admins.

But over here (the states) finding an admin who does not routinely abuse those commands for the purpose of either cheating to get an upper hand or to degrade and humiliate players, is very, very rare.

AJL
10-30-2003, 05:37 AM
Originally posted by KaiaSowapit
I'm fairly skeptical. That's a pretty bold statement to take on pure faith. I'd like some verification on this.

Personally, what I think may be the culprit is JK2 & Academy's false reporting of "no force." Disabling ANY Force power (like lightning for example) results in the server being listed as "force disabled." Same for guns - disable something like the Merr Sonn and the server is listed as "saber only."...

http://alienjl.homestead.com/files/NoLi.jpg
Maybe this screenshot lowers your skepticism a little bit...

Remirol Nacnud
10-30-2003, 07:53 AM
Just to clarify: I went back on to the server and double checked. I couldn't get any force powers other than jump, attack, defence.

On the Vjun FFA map, do you call the area at the top "The Pad" ?
Because there was a spammed message saying something like "no fighting on the pad or you'll get kicked"
I had been fighting up top(you know where I mean, a circular area with a hole in the middle) when I was choked and dropped down the hole in the middle.

KaiaSowapit
10-30-2003, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by AJL
Maybe this screenshot lowers your skepticism a little bit...
Nope, not in the slightest. Short of seeing it for myself and/or being told how to reproduce this exploit, I'm not convinced of anything. I mean no offense, but frankly your screenshot proves nothing. To illustrate, here's what I did with about two minutes in Photoshop:

http://home.earthlink.net/~kaiasowapit/shot0105.jpg

With about five more minutes worth of effort, I could have easily replaced "Force Lightning" with "Force Tickle."

That said, I'll give you the benefit of doubt that this is indeed an exploit. If so, I implore you to contact Raven/LucasArts immediately so this can be remedied in any future patches.

As for admin mods, I don't see any point to disciplinary actions other than silence, kick, and ban. To the best of my knowledge, two out of those three are native to JK2, Academy and most Quake-based games (if not all).

If there's a legitimate argument for commands such as "slap" or "sleep" I've yet to hear it, and don't even get me started on "empower." Frankly, I question the maturity level of anyone who endorses them. IMHO, anybody who relates administering a server with glee or joy has no business being an admin in the first place.

Administering a server is a responsibility best left to those with patience, restraint and an even hand.

Kurgan
10-31-2003, 12:01 AM
Kurgan... ''No it is lame, period.''

What's up with that? Don't be a joy eater... I have seen this at these forums alot... many people are totally against server rules like ''saber down means no attack'' which I think is better than some jedi version of UT2003. Besides, when that happens, it lags for everyone with 10 sabers in the same spot.

And now, no admin mods? Thank god there still is joyful modders!

I have no problem with mods, it's the whole idea behind admin mods and how they're used I have a problem with.

First off, all of the commands needed to moderate a server are already present in JA/JK2. You can kick somebody, ban them, ban their entire IP range, etc.

You don't need an admin mod to do those things.

Why is it better to make a person immobile with no weapons or powers while they lay on the ground or float in the air than to simply kick them?

If I kick somebody for "breaking the rules" isn't that just as effective (and when they come back I tell them to behave) than doing something stupid like the above?

Personally I'd rather be banned from a server that didn't like me than to have my chracter's body tossed around like a ragdoll in space while the admin gloats about his "god like powers" and how I need to respect his "authoritah".

Oh boy! I want a mod that lets me press a button and all the other players on the map instantly die, giving me points. That would be soooo cool. Of course I'll be the only one who can use it, muahhahaha!

Seriously.

And it's SOO easy to kick/ban somebody. If somebody can't learn how to clientkick or ban somebody's IP, they don't deserve an admin mod.

And don't get me started on Emotes that give you "protection" from certain attacks. What a moronic, game unbalancing idea!

Admin mods might be okay for Role Playing servers (where fighting and getting points are not desirable goals), but for a game server (the majority, and might I add how it was 'meant to be played')? Totally unnecessary and abuse prone.

Abbas
10-31-2003, 07:07 AM
I still have to figure how some people can change their skins in Siege Maps. It' possbile and no, I'm not talking about that bug that keeps the old skin upon changing a map. I've witnessed many people using this exploit in Siege servers to pass "unoticed" behind enemy lines.

cjd118118
10-31-2003, 09:31 AM
i never got why a admin would want to turn someone in to a bunny in a middle of a FFA.
O and i c that now someone thinks they know how to get force for the admin and no one else everyone is being really nice to him/her and asking him/her to PM them.....lol

Master William
10-31-2003, 09:37 AM
I guess you're right, Kurgan. But empowering can be good if you want to share your admin power with somebody, but it annoys me when there is 10 admins at one server, then it's a 100% chance you will get /amslapped for nothing.

The only really commands I care about are Kick, Ban, Freeze, Silence, and... Nothing more. The others, like /ambunny, is just when I'm playing with a friend, and we both have a great laugh at it. I actually consider the rest of the admin functions to be for ''fun'' mostly, not for use in admin. It does get fun though, but as you said, better make the death (meaning kick) quick, rather than torturing (/amslapping) the person.

ChangKhan[RAVEN]
11-11-2003, 02:46 PM
I'm guessing you saw the "Force Powers Disabled" message on the loading screen, but that message shows up for *all* force powers being disabled, or just a few (so you can still have jump and saberthrow, etc.)

Wudan
11-11-2003, 03:20 PM
I agree with Gummelt on this. The code for this is just a logic system, and in this case is probably something like


if (g_forcepowersdisabled != 0)
{
Com_Printf("Force Powers Disabled\n");
}


That's really bad code, but good enough for a forum posting. If I recall, weapon and force disabling is an 'and'ish deal, with excellent savings on cvars across the board.

It's possible for a mod to give you more descriptive output than that, but it could get annoying to do such a thing - ie, not worth the effort.

Still, it's a bit of polish, and I'll do it for my mod.

Rad Blackrose
11-11-2003, 05:44 PM
*waits for Rads big flame post*

I hope you're still holding your breath, I'd like to see you suffer from entropy.

Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN]
I'm guessing you saw the "Force Powers Disabled" message on the loading screen, but that message shows up for *all* force powers being disabled, or just a few (so you can still have jump and saberthrow, etc.)

Just the other nite I was paying a visit to the SGN server (just before the mysterious 1.01 patch was released), in which two of the administrators were using grip. However, it was base JA, and all powers were disabled except Jump, Saber Offense, Saber Defense, and Speed.

I'm going to have to echo Luc's sentiments: Oh great, there's a built in empower command... *eyeroll*

Empower was probably the primary pisser offer of anyone, Saberist Code or Anti-Saberist Code. It was a cheat, plain and simple. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. That quote holds true for the empower command, because it sure as hell was not used for "enforcement" purposes.

Amidala from Chop Shop
11-11-2003, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose

Empower was probably the primary pisser offer of anyone, Saberist Code or Anti-Saberist Code. It was a cheat, plain and simple. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. That quote holds true for the empower command, because it sure as hell was not used for "enforcement" purposes.

That's why I never enabled it on my servers, along with disabling teleport, terminator, punish, slap, tickle, noogie, wedgie, and all the other insulting and abusive admin powers.

KaiaSowapit
11-11-2003, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
That's why I never enabled it on my servers, along with disabling teleport, terminator, punish, slap, tickle, noogie, wedgie, and all the other insulting and abusive admin powers.
Tell me you left in Force Melvin? That was my favorite!

Kurgan
11-11-2003, 08:06 PM
Thanks for the confirmation Mike.

Amidala, you are my hero (or heroine rather)!

Master William (good to see you on my server last night btw):

I guess you're right, Kurgan. But empowering can be good if you want to share your admin power with somebody, but it annoys me when there is 10 admins at one server, then it's a 100% chance you will get /amslapped for nothing.

The thing is you don't need to "empower" to share power, you can already privately give people your admin password to let them have the same banning/kick powers as you.

The "empowering" normally done with these admin mods simply soupes up the force powers of those players or gives them cheat-like abilities. Those are just stupid and pointless. It's basically saying "well my friends and I can cheat because we're gods, but the rest of you are just our playthings, hahahaha"

; p

Comet
11-12-2003, 02:50 PM
Well your welcome to come to my server we also have force, you don't like the rules that we tell you (we don't grip padawans that don't know what they're doing) Then my dear friend you can leave, we know how to kikc and ban and we don't mind doing it, however theres a certain problem called our ban files size limit, we can't make it that big so if we just make lamers so angry they never return...

Empower was usefull when you didn't want others to have am access

im sure some of you remember the Hyper-stream servers for jk2 or the [SinisteR] public server for jka, maybe sgn who we have quiet good relations with (they worked with me on hs server)

point is its going to happen wether you currently like it or not.....

So you can do what? heres an idea! use that little thing called /disconnect..

People didn't think of that did they........

As i say many a time, theres no man with a gun at your head.

Rad Blackrose
11-12-2003, 03:03 PM
You obviously haven't seen Fallen and Unnamed's footage of nailing admin mod servers by the balls.

Empower was a power-trip admin command, and anyone who doesn't have their head up their ass knows about it. It wasn't effective, it was an excuse for the pissant admins to become the "lamer" they so abhor.

There's no such thing as pissing us off. There is such a thing known as persistance, however. That's right, those of us who know how to cause chaos know all the tricks in the book, and in the end is you who gets pissed off (or at least are reduced to the level of whining crybabies), not us.

So to be rather straight forward, you can take your "find another server" argument so guised by sarcasm and shove it.

Rumor
11-12-2003, 03:10 PM
comet please follow these steps to rid yourself of lamers forever:

/quit
/uninstall
have all your buddies do the same and have each and every one of you take an oath to not install the game ever again, lest you garner the wrath of my AT-ST.

Comet
11-12-2003, 03:16 PM
really, interesting, does it not waste your time? and of course i could just add your ip and ban it if i liked. We don't get angry 4 years of admining kinda heps make you not care. we are imparshial and do only what we're ordered to

Im sorry if you have a bad history with other servers but that them and not us you seem to think all that use these mods are the apitimy of evil. They're not some of us are just trying to keep the server nice the rules re currently on my server: Do not attack chatting or defenclesss players, Do not get in the way of duels or you will be removed by force and last Do not say any foul / insulting language

now we take those in serious of order, so we wont kick you for swearing unless it is something racist of sexist.

I fail to see how it benefits lamers to spend their time in our server getting no where (and swearing alot and cursing so much its obvious they are so angry their heads ready to explode)
You may know all the tricks of the trade but so does the admin staff at the other end, well in some cases anyway.

SR^ComeT.

Lord Death =RG=
11-12-2003, 03:17 PM
The trick with the force is that you must make a script which will let you change the force without restarting the game :D When u do that change it for short and take it, after that change it back to disabled and dont go in the profile animore and u wont lose the force when u die.

P.S.: Im admin at the TnG server, and we warn ppl to leave us allone but they are just crazy when they see a *A* in your name. They start atacking you like mad. Its easyer to grip em and throw em in a hole instead of opening up the console, writing status, finding the player on a 24slot server and then kicking him just to see him back in 10 seconds! Its not our fault that some ppl dont read the rules when we write them as server. :rolleyes:

Rumor
11-12-2003, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by Comet
Im sorry if you have a bad history with other servers but that them and not us you seem to think all that use these mods are the apitimy of evil. They're not some of us are just trying to keep the server nice the rules re currently on my server: Do not attack chatting or defenclesss players, Do not get in the way of duels or you will be removed by force and last Do not say any foul / insulting language


no you're not.

I fail to see how it benefits lamers to spend their time in our server getting no where (and swearing alot and cursing so much its obvious they are so angry their heads ready to explode)
You may know all the tricks of the trade but so does the admin staff at the other end, well in some cases anyway.

where are we going? is there a destination? i always thought that these maps had limits and they had one of four goals:

1. cap the flag
2. kill the other team
3. kill your opponent
4. win the map

as for getting angry, only nubs will get angry at you, as the better players would kick your ass from here to next year while you are empowered with ease.

Comet
11-12-2003, 03:34 PM
bit hard when you cant get on the server no? and actually i am cos they give us bad names make us look like the bad people which starts these sort of conversations. theres plenty of other games you like why not go to them?

Second don't tell me what i feel and don't feel your not me and your not a mind reader

last yes those are the things we are a duel server we encourage fighting of course but we also encourage having a good time as a clan. How would you feel if chosen one didn't mod or do anything for jka again? (inventor of jedi academy mods)

You wouldn't have some of your skins or maps or mods he puts work into stuff like forcemod to im told, you wouldn't have much fun without those ones "with thier heads up their asses"

Rumor
11-12-2003, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by Comet
your not a mind reader


How do you know, you aren't me.

How would you feel if chosen one didn't mod or do anything for jka again? (inventor of jedi academy mods)

You wouldn't have some of your skins or maps or mods he puts work into stuff like forcemod to im told, you wouldn't have much fun without those ones "with thier heads up their asses"

i would jump for joy if he didn't release his mod.

skins and maps that he made? wup ti ****ing do. didn't use the maps more than once and the skins i could care less about. hell i could care less if the default character for ja was a wookiee in a pink leotard that prances instead of runs.

forcemod wup-ti-do again.

as for going around raging newbs like yourself into hyperventilation over a computer game, while that was VERY entertaining, it was hardly the bread and butter of our jk2 experience.

and again we could care less about his pos mod. the competitive community has at least three ready to be developed that focus around improving gameplay instead of adding emotes and giving 12 year old admins enough power over others in servers that they could nut themselves over it instead of hot women in playboy.

Rad Blackrose
11-12-2003, 03:45 PM
First of all, run your posts through a spell/grammar check before I invoke the Grammar Crusade card, because attempting to read the stuff you are spewing is downright deplorable.

You obviously don't understand ban evasion, especially since JA does not ban by CD; it does by IP. Why do you think most of us in the "lamer" crowd have some sort of "reset" button?

Kind of hard to ban us when you can't get it to stick, huh?

Reverse logic is a bitch, isn't it?

I play base JK/JA, not that overhyped admin garbage. The last well done game alterating mod was ProMod, hands down (and MotF was off to a good start as well). Also, skins, maps... Meh, why exactly should we care? Considering I'm now a heavy Counter-Strike player, and CAL does not allow custom skins/maps/etc, you see where I'm going with this?

If you don't, and I don't doubt that for a second, it means who cares about custom maps, or things of the like? A good majority of JKII's custom maps were more of a snorefest then anything. I thought Counter-Strike's camping could put me to sleep, but damn, you people obviously take the cake.

How would I feel if Chosen didn't do anything for JKA? Being straightforward again, good. VAM, Jedi Academy, etc were the downfall of JKII. Good f***ing riddance.

Comet
11-12-2003, 03:56 PM
Kick on site rules, you can connect but you wouldn't get any further than the loading map, or we remove the last bit of your ip, may ruin it for a rundred or so people in your area but it would ban you.

Rad Blackrose
11-12-2003, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by Comet
Kick on site rules, you can connect but you wouldn't get any further than the loading map, or we remove the last bit of your ip, may ruin it for a rundred or so people in your area but it would ban you.

Can't kick what you can't see.

Do I need to hint at the "reset" button again?

Rumor
11-12-2003, 04:09 PM
subnet bans dont work on everyone, genius.

Comet
11-12-2003, 04:27 PM
g_password and i just let you sit there at your computer getting bored.

Rumor
11-12-2003, 06:23 PM
O NO HE PUT A PASWORD ON HIS SERVAR!11!11!!!!1!11 WTF LOL WUT SHAL WA DO??!?!?!? WTF LOL

oh well, 400 other servers to play on.

and yeah, you will be laughing at us while we play on other servers, while we laugh at your much less active server, and laugh more when you take the pw off and we rape you again.

Rad Blackrose
11-12-2003, 06:28 PM
Oh noes! Teh password card haev ben pulld! Pplz lievs r @ steak!!111one

Seriously... Last time someone (not naming names) decided to start creating an exclusive "PW only" server out of a pub, it failed drastically. Activity dropped big time, only resulting in loss of money out of pocket.

So as a whole, we get to point and laugh at wasted monetary value going towards a server no one will play on because they CAN'T get access to it (unlike the Master Server list bug).

I consider this checkmate.

eniaC
11-12-2003, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by Comet
I fail to see how it benefits lamers to spend their time in our server getting no where (and swearing alot and cursing so much its obvious they are so angry their heads ready to explode)
You may know all the tricks of the trade but so does the admin staff at the other end, well in some cases anyway.

It's called relieving stress genius.

I love the grammer crusade card, post it please, please....gimmie...gimmie..I need...I need.
(can't believe I missed this thread, please don't close it.)

eniaC
P.S. I can read minds, maybe if you could you would now that.
"Feels good to be bad" (sometimes)

*EDIT*(don't get me wrong, I hate rascism and sexism (sp?) , ALOT,) , its just fun to wreak havoc sometimes by chat, saber down killing, just for a break from the norm, if your server gets chosen..and I get banned...so be it...there's a few more servers out there to play on. Like FK|Unammed said "nice way to welcome new players".

Amidala from Chop Shop
11-12-2003, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by Comet
really, interesting, does it not waste your time? and of course i could just add your ip and ban it if i liked. We don't get angry 4 years of admining kinda heps make you not care. we are imparshial and do only what we're ordered to

Im sorry if you have a bad history with other servers but that them and not us you seem to think all that use these mods are the apitimy of evil. They're not some of us are just trying to keep the server nice the rules re currently on my server: Do not attack chatting or defenclesss players, Do not get in the way of duels or you will be removed by force and last Do not say any foul / insulting language

now we take those in serious of order, so we wont kick you for swearing unless it is something racist of sexist.

I fail to see how it benefits lamers to spend their time in our server getting no where (and swearing alot and cursing so much its obvious they are so angry their heads ready to explode)
You may know all the tricks of the trade but so does the admin staff at the other end, well in some cases anyway.

SR^ComeT.

OMG, please bookmark these pages ASAP!:

http://www.dictionary.com
http://www.hookedonphonics.com

Rumor
11-12-2003, 07:28 PM
LOL g1 amidala

FK | unnamed
11-12-2003, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by Rumor
instead of adding emotes and giving 12 year old admins enough power over others in servers that they could nut themselves over it instead of hot women in playboy.

rofl, I'm sorry but that was funny.


anyways, simple fact about banning:

if a person does not want to be banned, they won't be.

ip's can be changed, configs deleted (for newbie admins who name ban) and even range banning (66.86.X.X) is not too hard to get around.

www.jk2files.com banned me more times than I can remember from not only their server, but all of the {IcoP} servers that I had never even been to (I was making fun of them quite a bit there for a while).

yet I found my way back on there time and time again.


and as for filling up a ban file, if you are banning that many people, just lock the server and password it, you really should not be running a public server if you ban that many people.

Rad Blackrose
11-12-2003, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
OMG, please bookmark these pages ASAP!:

http://www.dictionary.com
http://www.hookedonphonics.com

Marry me?

and because it was requested...

http://www.ascendancy.net/tribalwar/grammar.jpg

Rumor
11-12-2003, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
rofl, I'm sorry but that was funny.



i know :cool:

you should see what i did to that lonestar kid on our clan boards. no editing of his posts or name was involved ^^

Kurgan
11-12-2003, 08:43 PM
Ok this thread is getting perilously close to the "locked thread" thing, but keep the flaming tempers under control and that won't happen.

and as for filling up a ban file, if you are banning that many people, just lock the server and password it, you really should not be running a public server if you ban that many people.

Agree 100%. That's a TON of bannage. Seriously, a simple IP range ban should be enough. But then I think having too many hypersensitive rules will ruin any server.

If admins lighten up a little (no offense), they won't have to ban so much.

So because they can't perm ban huge numbers of people forever, that makes admin mods necessary (ie: cheats for the admin)?

In the 0.000000000000000001 cases where you're dealing with a real jerk that won't leave like that, maybe, though I'd think the guy would still find a way to try to annoy you, despite whatever you did to him.

In the rest of cases its the ADMIN being the jerk (abusing those "features" of the mod), slapping people around when they beat him or just because he's in a bad mood, giving his friends super powers and pretending to be a tiny god to make up for (whatever)...

eniaC
11-12-2003, 08:54 PM
Thx Rad.


On another note:

http://www.oddworldz.com/eniac/stuff/deepthoughts.txt


"It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man."

"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason."

"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me."


http://www.oddworldz.com/eniac/stuff/cavrman.txt

Vulkan_HFB
11-12-2003, 09:22 PM
Yes there is a way for the admin to have force and everyone else not have force, but it's really, really obvious to everyone playing because a console message will appear that will tell everyone about it.

Whoever wishes to know the exact steps to do this, PM me because I'll probably get crucified if I post how.

Edit: I guess while I'm here I'll add my 2 cents... The only reason I want some sort of academy mod to be released for JA is for the multiduel feature and to have better control of when my server goes into cheating mode on Fridays. I'm hoping academy mod for JA will remove access to the invalid NPCs that crash the clients if one is spawned... Like ragnos or the yt-1300.

Though currently at my server, the absolute number 1 requested feature these mods will make available is multiduels.

Amidala from Chop Shop
11-12-2003, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan


Agree 100%. That's a TON of bannage. Seriously, a simple IP range ban should be enough. But then I think having too many hypersensitive rules will ruin any server.

If admins lighten up a little (no offense), they won't have to ban so much.

So because they can't perm ban huge numbers of people forever, that makes admin mods necessary (ie: cheats for the admin)?

In the 0.000000000000000001 cases where you're dealing with a real jerk that won't leave like that, maybe, though I'd think the guy would still find a way to try to annoy you, despite whatever you did to him.



Well, I must respectfully disagree. I hope you know my servers are definitely not totalitarian police states, in fact players never complain about heavy-handed admins, they complain there are never any admins around. However, it is possible to fill up your ban list despite being pretty lenient.

The g_banips cvar is limited like all cvars to 256 characters , not 256 IP addresses, 256 characters. Just one IP address can use up to 15 characters (12 digits and 3 periods). Combine this with the fact that the worst troublemakers almost always have dynamic IP addresses and sometimes proxy servers, and therefore one player may use up several IP addresses or ranges. Then if you are fortunate to have a very popular and large public server that runs for many months with hundreds or even thousands of individuals coming through, even if you ban only a tiny percentage of the players, you will fill up g_banips. Then you have to decide who to unban. You can't assume someone banned months previously won't come back.

The first player I ever banned was an honor weenie who spent the whole time he was on the server screaming about saber off = peace, you're a f*****g noob if you don't agree with him, this server is full of lamers, yadda yadda. So months later when I decided to clean up my ban list, I "unbanned" him, figuring it was months since he was banned, he wouldn't be back. Sure enough, a couple of weeks later he came in and picked up right where he left off. Back on the ban list.

I totally understand why many people hate adminmods. They should be like guns, used only by mature individuals for very limited and specific purposes. In the wrong hands they bring tragedy. That's why I have always disabled the worst and most abuse-prone "features". But they do help with certain basic housekeeping tasks:

1. Moves the banned IPs out of g_banips to a file, allowing up to 1,024 IP addresses\ranges to be banned (not that you need that many, but at least you won't run out).

2. Automatic logging of player IP addresses when they join the server. There are rarely any admins playing on my servers. But later on, when I am reviewing the log file and find someone suicided >100 times during Team FFA to lower the other team's score, or was spamming racist\profane\abusive insults, or was using one of those damn killtrackers despite server MOTD messages warning not to and multiple pleas from other players to turn it off, it makes it easy to add their IP to the banlist with the automatic logging.

3. Multi-line MOTD. The standard one-line MOTD is just too limited to explain the rules (or lack thereof), even though I have a different one for each map. The adminmods allow you to have a multi-line MOTD, in addition to the standard one, that appears for several seconds in large print in the center of the screen, where it can't be missed. It allows me to have multiple lines like:
"All kills are legal"
"Chat at your own risk, don't whine when you die"
"/seta cg_dismember 2 in console to see heads chopped off"
"saber-off = join Obi-wan's ghost"
"Killtrackers off !ktoff Repeat offenders will be BANNED!"
It makes it much harder for the honor weenies to try and impose their rules on everyone. I smile when my players respond "read what the server said when you entered, noob!"

4. psay. psay allows you to send private messages to individual (or all) players in large type in the center of the screen. That way you can tell someone who is being a punk to stop without embarassing them. I also use the mpsay all to tell all players during Jedimaster games to "SHOOT ONLY THE GUY WITH THE LIGHTSABER!" I also have two bots, Jedimaster and Noobi-wan, who explain the Jedimaster rules in chat every time they die or kill ("Shoot only the guy with the lightsaber you idiot!")

5. Preventing use of /kill during Team FFA. I hate suicide-runners during Team FFA, it's cheap. I asked cHoSeN oNe to add this feature to JA mod, and he added it to JA Mod 1.4. It doesn't stop them from jumping into voids, but at least that's slower than pressing the /kill key 100 times.

6. Allows customizing damage. I think flip-kicks in JK2 are cool and take skill to do well, so I doubled the kick damage (goes along with my increased-damage tendencies). Adminmods also allow you to tweak each stance's individual swing's (yellow regular, yellow DFA, yellow backsweep, blue backstab, etc.) damage, if you think they are unbalanced.

None of these are abusive or insulting functions. Speaking as someone who has been running two popular and busy JK2 servers, and two reasonably popular JA servers (even with the browser bug), adminmods can be useful if used properly. Like guns, they inherently have the potential for harm, but it depends very much on who is using them and how they use them.

eniaC
11-12-2003, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
Well, I must respectfully disagree. I hope you know my servers are definitely not totalitarian police states, in fact players never complain about heavy-handed admins, they complain there are never any admins around.

There should be more servers like that, sometimes you want to sit down for a few take a breather, and play a game w/ skilled folks that don't sit around and and chat, and not having to worry if your kill was legal or not.
More servers should also post in the startup (like the "Chop Shops") there rules, the ones that I've seen the most whinning on are the ones that say "Defeat your opponents to score points" (or whatever).

That way no one has to listen to anyone whine. The guy that Amidala mentioned must have been pretty thick headed not to see the colorful banner stating rules(or lack there of) at startup, or the automated server messages,
More servers should be doing this, imho, it would make things alot easier for all parties involved.
I'm sure people have stated this before, just re-elaberating (sp?)

eniaC

Kurgan
11-14-2003, 03:35 AM
You make many valid points Amidala and those are definately useful features. I wasn't accusing you personally of being a megalomaniac simply because you used an admin mod, only that by and large I've seen only abuse and complaints coming from people who've experienced them first hand. There are bound to be exceptions and you've shown me you're one (thank goodness!).

Those features are useful, yes. I guess the trouble is that these are not the only things put into admin mods.

Tweaking the damage values of moves might be problematic. Sure, you can already change the value of saber damage on the fly, but it will list the change at the top of the screen so everybody knows what just happened. If the same is done for the others (or it requires a map restart/change to take effect) that's fine.

If the authors of admin mods would use some common sense and restraint and ONLY put in useful commands, rather than bunny, slap, empower, sleep, killplayer, teleport, god mode, and partially invincible emotes, etc. I don't think people would have a problem with them.

Now I haven't seen the capabilities of every admin mod out there (I know there were quite a few made for JK2) but I got the impression that whichever one started it all was "open sourced" and this allowed people to make their "own versions" which incorporated a lot of crappy cheat-like abuse-prone abilities.

I guess the mod authors should just get together (form a cartel) and agree NOT to put in crappy features like that and keep their mods closed source.

If somebody wants to learn how to make a mod and give it abuse prone features, they can knock themselves out, but the authors who already know how to make them should learn from their mistakes in JA.

I'd rather NOT see admin mods be made for JA than see them made and abused like they were in the previous community, I guess is the bottom line for me...

KaiaSowapit
11-14-2003, 05:49 AM
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
...it is possible to fill up your ban list despite being pretty lenient.

The g_banips cvar is limited like all cvars to 256 characters , not 256 IP addresses, 256 characters. Just one IP address can use up to 15 characters (12 digits and 3 periods). Combine this with the fact that the worst troublemakers almost always have dynamic IP addresses and sometimes proxy servers, and therefore one player may use up several IP addresses or ranges. Then if you are fortunate to have a very popular and large public server that runs for many months with hundreds or even thousands of individuals coming through, even if you ban only a tiny percentage of the players, you will fill up g_banips. Then you have to decide who to unban. You can't assume someone banned months previously won't come back.

The first player I ever banned was an honor weenie who spent the whole time he was on the server screaming about saber off = peace, you're a f*****g noob if you don't agree with him, this server is full of lamers, yadda yadda. So months later when I decided to clean up my ban list, I "unbanned" him, figuring it was months since he was banned, he wouldn't be back. Sure enough, a couple of weeks later he came in and picked up right where he left off. Back on the ban list.

I totally understand why many people hate adminmods. They should be like guns, used only by mature individuals for very limited and specific purposes. In the wrong hands they bring tragedy. That's why I have always disabled the worst and most abuse-prone "features". But they do help with certain basic housekeeping tasks:

1. Moves the banned IPs out of g_banips to a file, allowing up to 1,024 IP addresses\ranges to be banned (not that you need that many, but at least you won't run out).

2. Automatic logging of player IP addresses when they join the server. There are rarely any admins playing on my servers. But later on, when I am reviewing the log file and find someone suicided >100 times during Team FFA to lower the other team's score, or was spamming racist\profane\abusive insults, or was using one of those damn killtrackers despite server MOTD messages warning not to and multiple pleas from other players to turn it off, it makes it easy to add their IP to the banlist with the automatic logging.

3. Multi-line MOTD. The standard one-line MOTD is just too limited to explain the rules (or lack thereof), even though I have a different one for each map. The adminmods allow you to have a multi-line MOTD, in addition to the standard one, that appears for several seconds in large print in the center of the screen, where it can't be missed. It allows me to have multiple lines like:
"All kills are legal"
"Chat at your own risk, don't whine when you die"
"/seta cg_dismember 2 in console to see heads chopped off"
"saber-off = join Obi-wan's ghost"
"Killtrackers off !ktoff Repeat offenders will be BANNED!"
It makes it much harder for the honor weenies to try and impose their rules on everyone. I smile when my players respond "read what the server said when you entered, noob!"

4. psay. psay allows you to send private messages to individual (or all) players in large type in the center of the screen. That way you can tell someone who is being a punk to stop without embarassing them. I also use the mpsay all to tell all players during Jedimaster games to "SHOOT ONLY THE GUY WITH THE LIGHTSABER!" I also have two bots, Jedimaster and Noobi-wan, who explain the Jedimaster rules in chat every time they die or kill ("Shoot only the guy with the lightsaber you idiot!")

5. Preventing use of /kill during Team FFA. I hate suicide-runners during Team FFA, it's cheap. I asked cHoSeN oNe to add this feature to JA mod, and he added it to JA Mod 1.4. It doesn't stop them from jumping into voids, but at least that's slower than pressing the /kill key 100 times.

6. Allows customizing damage. I think flip-kicks in JK2 are cool and take skill to do well, so I doubled the kick damage (goes along with my increased-damage tendencies). Adminmods also allow you to tweak each stance's individual swing's (yellow regular, yellow DFA, yellow backsweep, blue backstab, etc.) damage, if you think they are unbalanced.

None of these are abusive or insulting functions. Speaking as someone who has been running two popular and busy JK2 servers, and two reasonably popular JA servers (even with the browser bug), adminmods can be useful if used properly. Like guns, they inherently have the potential for harm, but it depends very much on who is using them and how they use them.
Amen.

Amidala from Chop Shop
11-14-2003, 06:12 AM
Originally posted by Kurgan
You make many valid points Amidala and those are definately useful features. I wasn't accusing you personally of being a megalomaniac simply because you used an admin mod, only that by and large I've seen only abuse and complaints coming from people who've experienced them first hand. There are bound to be exceptions and you've shown me you're one (thank goodness!).

Those features are useful, yes. I guess the trouble is that these are not the only things put into admin mods.


No offense taken!:amidala:

Like I said, I totally understand why so many people hate them, and rightly so when they lead so easily to abuse. I think my gun analogy is a good one. A gun in the hands of a 35-year-old police officer, skeet shooter, or biathalon competitor is one thing. A gun in the hands of a 13-year-old with poor social skills is something else entirely. Unfortunately, it is even easier for most 13-year-olds to get an adminmod than it is for them to get a gun.

I am concerned because I know many fine players will never go to a server running an adminmod (and again, I totally understand why based on their past experiences). There is no way for them to know that the worst features have been disabled and they are being used mostly for the rather neutral\benign features I mentioned earlier. It will be hard to give up those conveniences in order to keep from scaring some people away.

I wish the adminmod makers would make a "light" version that had a different name than the "full-strength" version. The "light" version would lack all of the worst "features" (empower, terminator, punish, slap, explode, etc.) so it could be used for the housekeeping\benign features I mentioned. (I forgot to mention some other nice features like /ignore <playername> that allows players to block the chat of any other player from appearing on their screen, support for longer player names and black letters, autorenaming of players with duplicate names [makes them Padawan1, Padawan2, etc. to reduce confusion], and allowing multiple simultaneous duels during FFA [if you like that sort of thing:rolleyes: ]). That way, admins and players get the nice features and no one has to worry about being abused (or being tempted to abuse).

P.I.M.P
11-25-2003, 07:36 PM
2. Automatic logging of player IP addresses when they join the server. There are rarely any admins playing on my servers. But later on, when I am reviewing the log file and find someone suicided >100 times during Team FFA to lower the other team's score, or was spamming racist\profane\abusive insults, or was using one of those damn killtrackers despite server MOTD messages warning not to and multiple pleas from other players to turn it off, it makes it easy to add their IP to the banlist with the automatic logging.

Amen.

Totally agree. Right now if I go through the logs I can only see Players names. If I have to ban "Padawan" then I don't even bother since I don't want to ruin the game for other people. Oh well, I'm just thankful for my server and for the post turkey nap on Thursday. :-) Happy Thanksgiving everyone. (Yes it's 2 days early but I like being proactive) :-)

Amidala from Chop Shop
11-26-2003, 12:06 AM
For all admins who want IP logging until an admin mod comes out, here is my workaround:

Download Fragomatic Rcon Commander 3.0 here:
http://www.planetquake.com/fragomatic/download.asp

Under View,Options..., Check the boxes for Save Console Log and Auto-Query Status. Choose a time interval (1-5 minutes is good), then click OK. Rcon Commander will automatically run /rcon status at the time intervals you specified, showing you all players and their IP addresses. It saves the status snapshots in a log file that you can review later. By using the Find or Search function in your text file viewer, you can search for a player by name.

If they use a name like Padawan, you have to do some detective work. Look in the game log file to see what other players were playing with Padawan. Find the one with the most unusual name and Find that name in the Rcon Commander log. You should eventually find the status shot that corresponds to the game log entries when Padawan was playing.