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View Full Version : 'Art of the Saber' fan film vs. JK2/JA *spoilers*


Kurgan
11-03-2003, 12:36 AM
Okay, I just finished watching the fan film "Art of the Saber" on TheForce.net fan films...


http://www.theforce.net/theater/fxprojects/artofthesaber/index.shtml

I admit I enjoyed it, as far as SW fan films go it was pretty good. Not as entertaining as Troops, but I always enjoy a lightsaber battle. The guys in it did some nice moves too.

However, I have been hearing people claim that this is what Raven "Ripped Off" to make Jedi Academy.

To that I say... nonesense (I almost used a more colorful phrase, but you get the picture).

Why do I say this? At first glance you might think that those accusations have merit. Just look at the screen cap that's posted on the short film's download page on TFN. It shows a guy crouching with two sabers in his hands in a position not unlike the pose that we see in Jedi Academy as you do the Dual Saber Barrier.

And look at the date.... 2001, clearly before Jedi Outcast (2002) and Jedi Academy (2003)!

But watch the film... not to spoil it (If you haven't seen the film, give up now and stop reading.... okay you had your chance)...

The saber barrier move is NOT in the film! This "pose" is all he does. He doesn't throw his sabers. And while I'm not a huge martial arts movie afficianado, I've seen enough Jackie Chan and and Jet Li to know that that pose was NOT made up by the creators of 'Art of the Saber' and those films predate Jedi Outcast.

Not only that but the "Death From Above" (so called by many fans) move featured prominently in Jedi Outcast also appeared a few months later (JK2 was released in March) in Attack of the Clones (which premiered in May). So either Lucas got wind of Raven's design doc and concept art and took his executive privilege or else the Raven team got wind of some Episode II exclusives and incorporated them into the game.

But surely nobody would accuse Lucas of "stealing" or "ripping off" Raven now would they just because the moves were similar?

Finally, watch the fight in the short film and you won't see anything remotely "ripped off" in Jedi Academy.

Oh wait, you say, one guy used a Saberstaff vs. a single saber guy, that proves it's a rip off! No it doesn't... all it proves is that in 2001, Darth Maul's saberstaff was just as popular with fans if not more so than when it was used by Exar Kun in the expanded universe years earlier. Proves nothing...

And a purple lightsaber? Seen it. The EU has featured mutiple saber colors not seen in the movies for nearly a decade.

Another neat trick is that the saberstaff guy "breaks" his saberstaff into two sabers! Wow!

This was a "feature" shown in the JA pre-alpha that was shown at E3 and elsewhere but it was only a cheat. It never made it into the final game. And I'm sure it's not so hard a thing to think up. And the use of two sabers at once is nothing new. We saw that in the 1997 classic Jedi Knight game (and they were two purple blades used by a "bad guy" at that!).

And the final thing that might lead some people to cry "rip off" is the presence of the various "butterfly" twirling cartwheel jumps we see used in the short film.

Sorry... doesn't fly with me either. Not only did we see concept shots from Episode I of Ray Park (as Darth Maul) doing them way back in 1999, but that "move" has been in plenty of popular films... the Matrix, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Blade, etc. all of which came before the fan film.

Even KillBill (which I saw Halloween night) featured those moves.

It just looks cool and it's not unthinkable that Raven decided to put it in the game. It was in JK2, but it was just an AI only move (a few mods made it usable by players of course).

I saw a few "hand twirls" done with the sabers, but again, those are in a lot of sword fighting movies made long before this.. Highlander comes prominently to mind. That some of these were added in Jedi Academy in no way suggests they "ripped off" this fan film.


So to sum up: great fan film, but I think those claiming Raven got their inspiration for Jedi Outcast from it are stretching a few superficial similarities to the breaking point to make a tenuous case.

I think that they pulled more inspiration from the Bushido Blade games and Episode I (and possibly some advanced bits from Episode II) honestly, to add to the already established system in Jedi Knight/Mysteries of the Sith to make Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy. Not to mention their experience making a melee/magic game with Heretic II years earlier on the Quake2 engine.

Most of the "seeds" of the features they added for JA were already in JK2 (like the saberstaff). So if JA was a ripoff, then JK2 must have been as well... but I think I've made a good case that this isn't assured. Apart from a Raven confession, I'm going to assume it's merely coincidence...

Sam Fisher
11-03-2003, 12:49 AM
Yes, I was the one who posted about the "Rip Off" in the Swamp. Really, what I was trying to convey(sp?) is that it 'looked' like JA ripped off a few moves from AotS, not that I was condemming(sp?) Raven for stealing them.

Kurgan
11-03-2003, 01:46 AM
Yeah I saw that post and another on another forum by another person claiming that they did rip them off.

As you can see I've shown ways in which those things don't necessarily have to be "rip off's."

It's just as illogical to say that the creators of Art of the Saber ripped those moves off of popular movies already out at the time.

The only thing original they did was to put lightsabers into the fight instead of swords or other melee weapons.

Sam Fisher
11-03-2003, 02:05 AM
Kurgan, I do believe you're talking out of your @$$.












;)

(For those of you who haven't watched The Shawshank Redemption, disregard the above.)



It may not necessarily be totally ripped off, but it's still looked like that one of the devs had seen the movie and based move(s) on it.

Kurgan
11-03-2003, 02:28 AM
Ok I'll bite.. which moves did he use to put into JA?

Rad Blackrose
11-03-2003, 04:26 AM
Kurgan, you're going to hate me for this because I do like to get techincal in these things.

I did specify some of this, but this time I decided to give a timeline.

(4:01/4:02) Looks like a strong stance horizontal slice to me.

(3:59)One of the dual saber taunts in JA is an actual "phantom" attack in AotS.

(3:56) One of the swings used by the dual saber is the standard forward/backward swing used.

(3:53) Modified version of the SP dual saber defensive barrier (crouch + forward + attack).

(3:25) Ahh yes, the dual saber kata position... It's not that hard to then suddenly animate it into a kata (think about it, there's no actual move that comes out of it other then a spring into the air).

(3:18) While I'm not going to argue with you on Darth Maul's style, I will argue with you on Anakin's, since there were no cartwheels or force augmented manuevers presented in Anakin/Dooku. Therefore, this cartwheel is considered added.

(2:31) Strong style kata, in all it's glory

(1:52) Opening of the Medium Style kata

(1:51/1:52) Dual-Bladed saber spinning move? (I know it appears in a chain, I'll specify later)

idontlikegeorge
11-03-2003, 04:59 AM
Talk about ludicrous.

I thought about this when I read this thread: :p

http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2003-09-08&res=l

Gabrobot
11-03-2003, 05:19 AM
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
Kurgan, you're going to hate me for this because I do like to get techincal in these things.

I did specify some of this, but this time I decided to give a timeline.

(4:01/4:02) Looks like a strong stance horizontal slice to me.

(3:59)One of the dual saber taunts in JA is an actual "phantom" attack in AotS.

(3:56) One of the swings used by the dual saber is the standard forward/backward swing used.

(3:53) Modified version of the SP dual saber defensive barrier (crouch + forward + attack).

(3:25) Ahh yes, the dual saber kata position... It's not that hard to then suddenly animate it into a kata (think about it, there's no actual move that comes out of it other then a spring into the air).

(3:18) While I'm not going to argue with you on Darth Maul's style, I will argue with you on Anakin's, since there were no cartwheels or force augmented manuevers presented in Anakin/Dooku. Therefore, this cartwheel is considered added.

(2:31) Strong style kata, in all it's glory

(1:52) Opening of the Medium Style kata

(1:51/1:52) Dual-Bladed saber spinning move? (I know it appears in a chain, I'll specify later)

Um, may I ask you a question? Why the hell would Raven, a professional game developer with more experience than most game companies except id software, go to all the trouble of carefully examining a fan film frame by frame to get the ideas for the moves in JKII and JA? Besides, most of the moves were actually motion captured by professional martial art performers for Lucasarts, who gave the animations to Raven who tweaked and merged them to make the animations used in game. This is what most modern melee games do, like The Return of the King LotR game coming out soon.

Crow_Nest
11-03-2003, 05:39 AM
All of the saber moves and some of the acrobatics are from JA!

Tito
11-03-2003, 05:39 AM
Any of y'all ever seen Duality? There's a few moves there that are also seen in JA...:p

C'mon, they didn't rip anything off... Why would they?



(By the way, if you havn't seen Duality, I highly recommend that you do: http://www.crewoftwo.com :cool:)

Bifford
11-03-2003, 02:49 PM
Isn't it conceivable that Raven simply studied some real-world swordfighting styles - or even hired a martial arts consultant - when designing the lightsaber combat? Why would they just watch Hong Kong movies?

WickedClown
11-03-2003, 04:30 PM
Could someone please tell me which player I need for this?
The Windows M-Players doesn't seem to work.

Tito
11-03-2003, 04:35 PM
Quicktime, I guess (can't exactly remember)...

That is available at http://www.quicktime.com!

Sam Fisher
11-03-2003, 04:36 PM
Hmmm.... Duality wasne't the best by far, sure it had good efx, but the saber fighting sucked.

Rumor
11-03-2003, 04:43 PM
the ripoff question is pretty moot. it doesn't really matter if they did rip them off, the fanfilms are inherently LA property therefore raven could have used them if they wanted to.

not to mention all those moves are all from real world martial arts. do you really think that GL would make up a new martial art for some movies and games? no way, it takes decades to get them established.

all they did was mocap real world martial arts moves and techniques. same with MK and Soul Calibur and the like.

in the end, who really cares? :rolleyes:

Prime
11-03-2003, 04:54 PM
If I was making a game featuring lightsaber fighting (or swordfighting), I doubt I would rely on a "cheaply" made fanfilm when I have the entire history of martial arts movies at my disposal. I doubt the fanfilmers came up with everything themselves...

Plus I find it funny that probably many of the people would get upset over something like this don't think twice about downloading music and movies over the internet :)

WickedClown
11-03-2003, 04:58 PM
1.) Thanks to Tito for that link....could finally watch that movie.
2.) that little piece of lightsaber-fighting was fresh.
I really enjoyed it and I'd be definately happy if JA had this style of fighting (although I doubt that a game could be made with such control over the saber/sword...would be awesome though).
3.) Did Raven rip something off? Maybe, but with the wide world of martial arts at hand, they probably didn't.

2 Darf 2 Sideus
11-03-2003, 05:12 PM
i kno exactly whut u mean. I saw this fan film a while back and then i saw JA an i sed "OMG OGM JA STOAL EVRYTHIN FROM TAHT THERE FAN FILME OMG"

fan filme (http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/nice.php)

Prime
11-03-2003, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by 2 Darf 2 Sideus
i kno exactly whut u mean. I saw this fan film a while back and then i saw JA an i sed "OMG OGM JA STOAL EVRYTHIN FROM TAHT THERE FAN FILME OMG"

fan filme (http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/nice.php) gf

Kurgan
11-03-2003, 05:48 PM
not to mention all those moves are all from real world martial arts. do you really think that GL would make up a new martial art for some movies and games? no way, it takes decades to get them established.

all they did was mocap real world martial arts moves and techniques. same with MK and Soul Calibur and the like.

My point exactly. I'm sure the guys who made 'Art of the Saber' if they knew anything about martial arts at all just used stock "moves" from the repetoires of what they knew. Movies do the same thing, GL does the same thing and Raven probably did as well (and the motion capture actors they used if any, etc).

I'm not a martial artist, but I did take fencing and in fencing you have "positions" or "poses" (sorry forget the exact terminology, it was a long time ago), but suffice to say, you aren't usually making up new moves, you're just repeating moves that other people have practiced and mastered for centuries.

And yes, while the fan films are probably up for grabs with LA, the martial arts "moves" are also public domain if I'm not mistaken. If you throw a punch that Bruce Lee "invented" does his estate get to sue you?


in the end, who really cares?

At least two other people besides me (including a clanmate of your's) and everybody who responded I imagine. ; )

Heh, about the comic. ; )

eniaC
11-03-2003, 07:27 PM
Awesome fan film...BEAUTIFUL...won't comment on the simmilarities...great link IDon'tLikeGeorge...
:thumbsup:

eniaC

The fact is these guys may actually know how to use a real sword might come into play...Is it possible they are on the design team for the game(appologize in advance if thats a stupid question).
That Duel Dual taunt looked identical to the game, never seen it in any movie, real swordplay or what have you, (may have seen someone pull it off w/ sai's, can't remember.

Great Fan Film, at the top with Troops in my opinion .

eniaC

Kurgan
11-03-2003, 09:54 PM
You mean the move where he crouches with legs splayed out (one in front, one in back) and one hand pointed forward, one pointed back?

IIRC I've seen Jet Li do that move in the movie "The One."

Just put two toy lightsabers in his hands and you've got it. I assumed it was a common martial arts "pose" (or figure, whatever they call it in the particular martial art), and these guys, maybe knowing something about martial arts just copied it with the sabers in hand.

Aryyn
11-03-2003, 11:51 PM
The best fanfilm by far is A question of faith at theforce.net. The lightsaber fights and acrobatics are really well done. Also off the topic is the Batman dead end film thats there also its the best batman on film in my opinion.

Samuel Dravis
11-04-2003, 12:04 AM
IIRC I've seen Jet Li do that move in the movie "The One."

And when did that movie come out?



Sorry, I had to post that. Boy, this thread's fun.:)

idontlikegeorge
11-04-2003, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by WickedClown
Did Raven rip something off? Maybe, but with the wide world of martial arts at hand, they probably didn't.

Exactly.

I mean, considering "lightsaber" combat for the choreography in the movies is based off existing martial arts and fencing styles - why didn't the "fan film" get bashed for ripping off them?

I mean, lightsabers are owned by the Great George himself. And they had the gall to portray their own lightsabers. Pffbt. Shameful.

eniaC
11-04-2003, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by Kurgan
You mean the move where he crouches with legs splayed out (one in front, one in back) and one hand pointed forward, one pointed back?

IIRC I've seen Jet Li do that move in the movie "The One."

Just put two toy lightsabers in his hands and you've got it. I assumed it was a common martial arts "pose" (or figure, whatever they call it in the particular martial art), and these guys, maybe knowing something about martial arts just copied it with the sabers in hand.

Kurgan,
I this was directed towards me, I was talking about the Duel(gametype) either flourish or gloat with dual sabers.
The one were he spins the right saber(no handed) around the saber in his left and then catches it again.
:)

eniaC

Sounds Risky
11-04-2003, 01:15 AM
Originally posted by eniaC
Is it possible they are on the design team for the game(appologize in advance if thats a stupid question).

They worked on Star Wars Galaxies; Did some motion capturing for the Jedi. Raven actually contacted them about their film too if I remember correctly.

Tesla
11-04-2003, 02:12 AM
Motion Capture for JK2 & JA was doen by House Of Moves, says that in the credits...

I've just watched the fan film, and i have to say it's pretty impressive, and so is Duality mentioned above in a post....

I don't think they ripped of anybody, they got HOM to do the motion capture of moves they & LA thought was best for the Saber combat.

"Thats all i can think of at any rate." :D

HOM - House Of Moves

Astrotoy7
11-04-2003, 02:23 AM
As I watch the flame embers light ever so slowly, I'm gonna have a go at contacting the filmmakers.......ask if they referenced games/movies, and if/how they used motion capture.....

MTFBWYA

Scythefall
11-04-2003, 02:51 AM
Originally posted by Kurgan
You mean the move where he crouches with legs splayed out (one in front, one in back) and one hand pointed forward, one pointed back?



That's called "Pa Bu" in Kung Fu. It's common in any school of kung fu, Northern or Southern.

I think the film is beautifully done and these guys are very good martial artists. The production is much lesser but these guys did a display of fighting that is as good as Maul vs Qui-Gon/Obi Wan. They worked really hard to nail the moves and it looked believable.

As far as it all goes, these guys haven't done anything that hong kong cinema hasn't done before. I think lightsabers make it much more exciting and flashier looking. Most of the flashy stances and such are taken from modern Wushu which is a flashier, less practical modification to Kung Fu.

Astrotoy7
11-04-2003, 05:39 AM
I have re-watched AotS, having dug it out from the depths of my HD ! Its obvious one of the Ho Brothers(at least) has martial arts training, most likely kendo amongst other things. A post on theforce.net has informed me that Calvin Ho(the fight choreographer in AotS) was brought in by Lucasarts to work with motion capture for GALAXIES. It is perhaps probable that this motion capture data would have been used in JA...... would love to have this confirmed though....

If it is a load of bull, then I dont think anyone should waste their precious time worrying about it too much ! There obviously seems to be some martial arts element involved, whether the 'House of Moves' team used Calvin Ho is subject to speculation !

MTFBWYA

shukrallah
11-04-2003, 11:48 AM
Hmmm... it does look slightly like JA... but of course that doesnt mean raven stole it :yodac: :maul5:

nivlak
11-04-2003, 12:46 PM
Hello,
I am one of the creators of Art of the Saber and found this link from the forum on TFN. So I thought I would just stop by and give my input on the matter.

As far as Jedi Academy goes, we did NOT play any direct role in the martial arts of the game. We did however recieve a number of e-mails from various developers of the game earlier in the year praising the film. They informed us that the movie "inspired" them and that they incorporated a number of things from the movie into the game. However, since I do not play the game, I have no idea what moves nor how many moves they actually used from our movie. And as many mentioned, much of the moves are standard kung fu/wushu moves. So whether they took a specific move from our little movie or another movie, only the developers would know. Hey! If any developer is reading this right now, you guys promised us a signed copy of the game by the development team! I would like that sent ASAP please :)

As far as Star Wars Galaxies goes, I did some motion capturing for the enhancement to be released in January. I did not do any mo-capping for the originally Galaxies currently being played. For Galaxies, the Art Director actually e-mailed us after watching AOTS and asked if we could help them with their combat. We captured almost 300 new moves from simple blocks to 5 hit jedi combos. It was a pretty cool experience.

Thats about it. Anyway, even tho these large development companies have resources to mo-cap, its not inconcievable that they would find someone off the street thats really just a nobody. Believe it or not, these guys are really just down to earth people like everyone else. Actually their pretty goofy... in a fun way. :)

Prime
11-04-2003, 01:20 PM
Thanks for the informative post!

It also shows that the developers are fans like everyone else...

Sam Fisher
11-04-2003, 01:22 PM
Well. That explains a lot. :D

Just wondering, are you going to be making any more AotS movies?

Darth_Pnut
11-04-2003, 01:50 PM
IMO,

Both the guys in this movie where experianced martial artists. Just watch the thing, they have some crazy moves you don't just pull off cause your bored and you have a video camera. Thus is we see such moves in JA, well guess who they hired to help them make the fighting in this game, experianced martial artists. Thus we must assume that these two young men studied a style(or styles) close to the people that helped create the JA fighting system.

Also, I want to thank everyone who posted fan movies and such. I enjoyed them quite a bit ^_^

D_P

WickedClown
11-04-2003, 02:28 PM
Well, I got another question:
Who's the Sith and who's the Jedi?

The guy with the staff is the aggressor the way I see it.
The single-sabered seems to be the good one cause he wrote that letter and is more defensive - using a red saber, which, in a normal SW movie would indicate a Dark Jedi or Sith.
The staffy wins.

So, does the Jedi or the Sith win?

nivlak
11-04-2003, 03:02 PM
I guess the dual saber guy is the Sith and the guy that gets killed in the Jedi. Although, I really just see it as 2 warriors fighting: 2 people that respect each other and just happen to fight for different causes (like in the Civil war where even brothers fought one another). As far as the color of the sabers, we really just picked colors that we thought would stand out in the background. The fact the single saber jedi is wearing black and has a red saber did not mean to us that he was a sith. In fact I always thought it was silly the way siths can only have red sabers and jedis could only have blue, green, or purple. Who makes those rules up? I mean, if youre a sith and you happen to want a blue saber and wear a pink robe, are you laughed at by all the other siths. Is it peer pressure that makes them all use red and wear black or is a law passed down by the emperor? Same goes for the Jedis? Who says jedis cant wear old sweatpants and shades :P

Oh as far as making another one goes, we may do one next summer. I just need to find a actress that knows how to act, knows some martial arts, that lives in Maryland, is fairly cute, and happens to want to be in a home made movie. :P

Samuel Dravis
11-04-2003, 03:45 PM
I was just wondering how you found this post...I mean, seeing as you don't have JA.

BTW, the film is great. I think it's the best saber combat one out there.

Rad Blackrose
11-04-2003, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by Samuel Dravis
I was just wondering how you found this post...I mean, seeing as you don't have JA.

BTW, the film is great. I think it's the best saber combat one out there.

From nivlak's post
...and found this link from the forum on TFN.

Anyways, AotS is a fine piece of work, whether or not it was used in JA.

However, there will always be that speculation lingering.

nivlak
11-04-2003, 04:47 PM
I found a link to this forum on www.theforce.net at
http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=13808654&replies=12

killabilly
11-04-2003, 05:18 PM
So what are you gonna say now Kurgan?

Heheheh... :yoda:

lonepadawan
11-04-2003, 05:24 PM
I don't know what else has been said in this thread but...

JA IS based on some AOTS moves. stuff like winning a sabever lock but having your opponent twirl his saber round yours come straight out of the film. Raven emailed the Ho brothers telling them how much of an inpiration they were and that they would get a free copy of JA.

The Ho brothers are now doing mo-cap for Galaxies.

Kurgan
11-04-2003, 07:29 PM
That proves nothing... .show me your source for claims that Raven emailed the authors and said they were inspired (not just hearsay on a fan forum).

That thread didn't prove one way or the other that they were working for LucasArts (there seemed to be some disagreement over whether their stuff made it into Galaxies or not) and whether or not those same moves were used for JA. Anyway, I thought there were no Jedi in Galaxies? Did the Ho Brothers motion capture moves into a LucasArts game for lightsaber combat or not?

Last time I checked the "Ho Brothers" didn't invent those moves they were using and they didn't invent saber locks.

As I said before, all they did was put lightsabers in their hands and do moves that have been around for quite awhile.


IF we had a statement from Raven that they were inspired and deliberately used moves they saw in Art of the Saber, THAT would prove your argument (of course it would negate the accusation of "stealing" or "ripping off") and it would make just as much sense as the Penny Arcade comic that was posted anyway.

Still, I might as well accuse the Ho Brothers of ripping off modern martial arts & sword fighting movies. Right?

Tesla
11-04-2003, 07:36 PM
I believe they are going to add the Jedi class in in a an X-Pack for Galaxies, same with Starships...i don't have it, thats what i've heard...Can someone confirm that ?

I don't think anyones ripping of anyone, Imitation is the something form of Flattery.....hehe, got that from a Fan Film as well :p

-DK-Squee
11-04-2003, 09:05 PM
ummm....i have quicktime but i cant watch it...whats wrong?:confused:

eniaC
11-05-2003, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by -DK-Squee
ummm....i have quicktime but i cant watch it...whats wrong?:confused:

It can take a few min. to load. I run cable and it took me about 4 or so min.

eniaC

-DK-Squee
11-05-2003, 12:41 AM
no, i mean it has the symbol that indicats it wont work, and it says done in the corner:(

Astrotoy7
11-05-2003, 07:57 AM
The INVINCIBLE(and seemingly/possibly angry :p) KURGAN said
That proves nothing... .show me your source for claims that Raven emailed the authors and said they were inspired (not just hearsay on a fan forum).

Firstly kids , I AM AT7 ! (There's an ESB moment for ya) I put that post up on TFN to get some info as the Ho brothers were not directly contactable.....sheesh

But I think Nivlak(whoops is that KALVIN backwards !!) has answered most of this - thanks to him for chiming in !!! Its cool that MY thread on TFN got him to post here :) (i linked it here after all....)


anyways, I dont think the argument is about <x> ripping <y> off, even to someone as silly as me you can tell theres alot of standard martial arts stuff in there. All I would like to know is that who was the model for the motion cap(evidently done by 'House of Moves) for JA....and was it Calvin Ho.... ?? If so it would be cool to know what martial arts styles he has studied....

This doesnt mean he invented saber locks for pete's sake !!! Hey you can watch a Douglass Fairbanks silent swashbuckler from the 1920s and there's saberlocks in that !

Uh-Oh ! Does that mean Douglass Fairbanks invented saberlocks !!

Raven ripped DF off man !!!(say out loud with much sarcasm and/or outrage)

In the meantime, listen to KURGAN -
As I said before, all they did was put lightsabers in their hands and do moves that have been around for quite awhile.

Exactly.

MTFBWYA

Also, for "Nivlak", if that is you Calvin, great work on AotS !!

WickedClown
11-05-2003, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by nivlak
I guess the dual saber guy is the Sith and the guy that gets killed in the Jedi. Although, I really just see it as 2 warriors fighting: 2 people that respect each other and just happen to fight for different causes

I just thought that I had read the jedi/sith-thing somewhere...
and I was curious about it...thanks for the info.

Crow_Nest
11-07-2003, 04:17 AM
Originally posted by Tito
Any of y'all ever seen Duality? There's a few moves there that are also seen in JA...:p

C'mon, they didn't rip anything off... Why would they?



(By the way, if you havn't seen Duality, I highly recommend that you do: http://www.crewoftwo.com :cool:)


LOL!
The ending was funny.

:rofl:

Kurgan
11-07-2003, 05:56 AM
I'm not angry, I'm FURIOUS! (imitates "Mr. Furious" from 'Mystery Men') RAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH !!!!


No.. I'm just being assertive in my argument. ; )


Somebody asked when the Jet Li film "The One" came out. November 2001, according to IMDB.com. "Blade" came out in 1998, and "The Matrix" came out in 1999. "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon" came out in 2000. The four "Highlander" films were all made before 2001 (1986, 1991, 1994, 2000 respectively; the tv series ran from 1992-1997).

Astrotoy7
11-07-2003, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by Kurgan

Somebody asked when the Jet Li film "The One" came out. November 2001, according to IMDB.com. "Blade" came out in 1998, and "The Matrix" came out in 1999. "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon" came out in 2000. The four "Highlander" films were all made before 2001 (1986, 1991, 1994, 2000 respectively; the tv series ran from 1992-1997).

Wow, that's very Leonard Malten-esque....

Siskel & KURGAN's review of "AotS"

Siskel : thumbs up
KURGAN : RAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH !!!!

Just in case anyone is curious -
Heres the ORIGINAL THREAD from TFN where Calvin Ho reported about his work on Galaxies....

MTFBYWA