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exose
11-03-2003, 08:05 PM
When u add more training points to saber offense for multiplayer, Does it give extra damage or anything else other than new saber stances for the standard lightsaber? Does it give a better chance to block?
For saber defense, does it do anything else other than giving u a better chance to block? For example, not getting your saber knocked back or off your hand when u get hit by another saber.

How come i'm getting damaged so much by the dual and the staff saber when i have 3 levels of saber defense and saber offense. I get around 50 damage each normal swing by someone else.
My character wouldn't block the attacks even though i'm facing the enemy and not performing any attacks.
It takes me like 10 swings(medium style) to kill a guy that is holding the dual and staff, while he kills me in like 1 normal swing.

Can someone please explain what is going on here?

I'm confused. Why are dual and staff damaging more than a standard lightsaber in 1 swing. You're using 2 hands with the standard and you're damaging less. Plus you can't block as good as a 1 handed dual. Is this why hardly anybody's using standard?

Akshara
11-03-2003, 08:33 PM
This page over at Kurgan's Strategic Academy might answer a few questions on lightsabers...

http://strategy.jediknightii.net/jka/saber.shtml

The reason why staff or dual are more damaging is because... well, one is a really big double bladed staff and the other is twice as many sabers swinging.

Seriously... the balance is supposed to be created by the fact that single has 3 stances which can be switched on the fly depending on the situation the Jedi/Sith is in, with the Strong stance being the only "one hit kill" stance. Meanwhile, the Staff and Dual Sabers allow only one stance each, and are much more limited in range of motion and possible strike combinations.

If one were to use all 3 single saber stances in an attack, it's extremely powerful and keeps the opponent off balance. Both the Staff and Dual have strong weaknesses which are easily countered, ergo their damage is increased. Also, the only way to get any real variation with the Staff (can't speak for Dual) is to use lots of heavy Force draining moves, which gives the Single saber a Force advantage on servers with a normal Force regen time.

I recently watched Phantom Menace, and when Darth Maul pulls out his Staff it's quite impressive... it looks like it should do twice the damage of a single staff. As should a person wielding two sabers.

Btw... you should know that this thread is going to attract a whOle lot of people who think the game is unbalanced, and could potentially be this week's flame-war thread. However, many of us feel that the sabers styles are very well balanced, and one simply needs to take the time to learn the subtleties and differences of each.

Is this why hardly anybody's using standard?
As one who mostly uses a Staff, the majority of really good opponents I encounter online are Single Saberists. They always seem to hold the top positions on the servers I frequent, and make me a whole lot more nervous in a one on one encounter than other staff wielders and dual saberists.

Kurgan
11-03-2003, 09:54 PM
According to reports, the only discernable difference that adding higher levels of Saber Attack to Staff/Duals in MP is that it makes it easier to win saber locks the higher it is.

Single Saber of course grants new stances with each level, but Staff and Duals already have their two "stances" even at level 1.

The level of percieved skill is just that.. skill. With enough practice anybody can get good with any saber type or style and it all depends on the skill of the user (even lucky players can't be lucky all the time).

I play with saberdamagescale 2 and that makes "damage" doesn't matter so much.

And contrary to popular belief, getting "nicked" by a saber does NOT kill you in 1 hit. Due to lag or choppy framerate it can appear this is so, but the fact is that limb hits to far less damage than head or body shots. Head shots are almost always fatal (especially with damagescale 2). Limb shots are rarely fatal, and body shots to damage that's in between.

But with the exception of grazing limb hits, most saber hits are fatal with saberdamagescale 2 which I think makes it more interesting and realistic, and negates the "nerf bat wait-forever-for-the-fight-to-end" syndrome associated with normal saber usage in MP.

And since in JA idle sabers do no damage (on default settings anyway, I'm still looking for the cvar to change that) it's not like somebody can just run by and nick you to death (besides, the idle saber damage I've read about only does like 1 hp pulsing damage per second anyway, and is unaffected by the saberdamagescale cvar).

I actually encounter very few single saber users, but the people I have met have varied greatly in skill. And I've won and lost battles using all different saber types and styles against them, and while I'm no grand master player, I think that at least shows that it's not one stance or one move dominant. Lots of people whine about katas and such but they are painfully easy to dodge/counter so I don't see what all the fuss is about really.

Remirol Nacnud
11-03-2003, 10:08 PM
They all have their advantages, and considering the great difference between the sabres, they seem very well balanced.

If you find that you don't do too well with the single sabre, toy around with the others offline for a little while.
but offline you can't see the advantage of switching between stances as clearly.

On line you can really confuse someone. You can use the heavy stance(which is so slow that I find it best to start the swing and then run into the other person, possibly moving sideways at the last second to catch them at a good angle) so they concentrate on avoiding that hit, then slashing away at you with their staff/dual, which can be really damaging. But you can then slip into 'fast' stance and not only be able to defend from their attacks better, but also slash away and get a few hits in that they weren't expecting.

That's just a single example, and I'm sure that if you look around you'll find some more tips that will help you to succeed with the single sabre.

exose
11-03-2003, 10:48 PM
thank you for the site. I've been to many of those site, i just want in-depth information saber battling. I know all the saber and acrobatic moves from jedi outcast and jedi academy.

I find that heavy is the only useful style for standard because it has range and it can pierce through defenses. I dont feel much advantage having all 3 styles. The medium has a bit more damage and range but didn't prove very effective against someone with dual or staff. Most of my hits get blocked when using light or medium. I fear coming close to someone with a staff or dual with the light or medium because i usually receive too much damage or end up dead. He just does a few flukey swings and i get killed. Ever since jedi outcast, most of the people depended on heavy style.

The light style's damage ranges between 1-20. If you get lucky and hit the guy through his chest, you'd probably do about 20 damage (enemy has saber off and standing in front of you). I find that the special attack or lunge is the only useful move for the light style and probably deadlier than the heavy's.

The medium style's damage is between 5-25. You just get a bit more range, and lower recovery. I find the special quite useless for this style. The enemy has to be exactly under you for it to work(do it when enemy is 3 small steps away). This style is useful for single player to make a 1 hit kill but i dont find it much useful in multiplayer.

The heavy's damage is between 10-30 which is ok with me. The heavy doesn't have 1 hit kill anymore. I did my heavy special on someone after he used his saber shield. It didn't kill him even though the saber landed exactly on his heady down to his feet. I find this the most useful style. The staff and dual does around 20-50 damage. Sometimes 1 swing would be fatal even when you have full health.

If you don't believe me you can try the standard saber for youself. Test out the damage on lan or online with others. Have 2 guys faced each other and check the damage. Have 1 guy with a standard and 1 guy with dual. Get the guy with dual to swing. I noticed the guy with the standard unable to block most of the time and takes lots of damage. The guy with dual can block almost all of the hits. Try using the medium and light style on someone who has dual or staff.

Maybe i need more time to discover the potential of the standard saber. Any strategies or suggestions would be helpful.

KaiaSowapit
11-04-2003, 02:34 AM
Yes it's true; you need only 1 point (level 1) in Saber Attack for the staff/dual sabers to maximize potential. The main purpose of Saber Attack is to enable the extra stances for single saber users. And yes, IMHO that's messed up - smart dual/staff players apply all those handy extra points to juicing up lightning, grip, absorb, etc. while single saber users get the shaft.

Also, for the record, Saber Defense is really only applicable to blaster deflection (the higher the setting, the more likely/capable you'll be of deflecting blasters/gunshots). On a saber-only server, it has little to no effect on saber-to-saber blocking. Your results may vary.
Originally posted by Kurgan
And since in JA idle sabers do no damage (on default settings anyway, I'm still looking for the cvar to change that) it's not like somebody can just run by and nick you to death (besides, the idle saber damage I've read about only does like 1 hp pulsing damage per second anyway, and is unaffected by the saberdamagescale cvar).
The cvar is d_saberSPStyleDamage (set it to zero). And yes, no matter how high you set saberDamageScale, it still does sucky damage.
Originally posted by exose
I'm confused. Why are dual and staff damaging more than a standard lightsaber in 1 swing. You're using 2 hands with the standard and you're damaging less. Plus you can't block as good as a 1 handed dual. Is this why hardly anybody's using standard?
2 blades, 1 target. 1 blade, 1 target. Do the math. ;)
Originally posted by Akshara
...the majority of really good opponents I encounter online are Single Saberists. They always seem to hold the top positions on the servers I frequent, and make me a whole lot more nervous in a one on one encounter than other staff wielders and dual saberists.
Ditto. In my experience, people who know what they're doing with a single saber are NOT to be underestimated. I get pwned by them all the time.