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View Full Version : Is the rest like Missions 1 and 2?


pellet2
11-04-2003, 10:44 PM
Hi all,

Seems something went wrong in my previous 2 post attempts, so here goes again.

I started the second mission of Jedi Academy and man, this is real real boring and amateurish. Like stepping back to pre-Quake1 games. Zero AI, static predetermined enemy positions etc.

And the guns?? When will developers realize that in futuristic guns, based on energy pulse or laser etc, the projectile will move at a speed about 17 times faster than a bullet. In these ones they instead travel at the speed of blobs of dung being tossed around by hand. An artificial attempt to make things more difficult?

Anyway, I fell asleep in mission 1. So please tell me, is the rest of the game also this amateurish, or does it get better? For if not, it is simply wasting my time.

And a last thing, the character-graphics are atrocious. I'm also tempted to ask why all the male (human) characters look and talk like sissies (no, I did not say queers), but perhaps that would not be a tasteful question, so I'll just keep quiet. And I won't even mention the accuracy of the EAX implementation!

So does it get better in later missions? No problem if it doesn't - we have a video/game shop, so no loss.

Thanks a lot,
Chris.

PS: There is something really wrong with the mouse implementation in 1st person view. Reminds me of Hitman 2 if you switched it to 1st person view.

PPS: Why it doesn't give me the option to be in 1st person perspective at all times, is totally beyond me. The previous Jedi Knight (Outcast) was much better than this - well, at least it was playable and I didn't fall asleep. No, I am not a Star Wars fan, but I do love QUALITY action FPS games.

Sam Fisher
11-04-2003, 10:53 PM
In my opinion, it does get better later on. You get a better saber and better force powers. If you don't like the game, that's your problem. But you should probably wait and see about the patch, just in case.

RigoR_MortiS
11-04-2003, 11:00 PM
make lightning lvl 3 and watch stromies cry&fry for help :D

StormHammer
11-05-2003, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by pellet2
Seems something went wrong in my previous 2 post attempts, so here goes again.

No problem. Threads deleted. ;)

Zero AI, static predetermined enemy positions etc.

Well...there are some instances where static enemy positions make sense...such as when an enemy is trying to ambush you, or they are guarding a particular entrance.

Also, I did see some of the characters moving around and ducking for cover when the shooting/sabering started - like the Mercs on Tatooine.

Having said that, I do agree that it's better when the enemies are patrolling, or 'going about their business' before you come along. I think NOLF2's Siberia levels are a good example where enemies are moving around a lot.

I think the claim for zero AI is a bit unfair - as I said, I can remember encounters where enemies tried to run for cover, dodge, call for backup. Hardly a complete absence of AI as your claim suggests. Although I do agree that more of the enemies could have been more active, and employed better tactics. I think the Stormtroopers in the first level of Jedi Outcast were better at dodging and trying to flank you. In later levels, however, the cultists seem to employ some good tactics and counter-moves when dueling you.

And the guns?? When will developers realize that in futuristic guns, based on energy pulse or laser etc, the projectile will move at a speed about 17 times faster than a bullet.

I think a lot of people, including myself, would agree that the laser bolts should travel a lot faster. It is a bit silly when an enemy can dodge blaster fire from ten paces away. So I would agree with your point about projectile speed.

And a last thing, the character-graphics are atrocious. I'm also tempted to ask why all the male (human) characters look and talk like sissies (no, I did not say queers), but perhaps that would not be a tasteful question, so I'll just keep quiet. And I won't even mention the accuracy of the EAX implementation!

I disagree, to an extent. I think the character graphics were fine, considering the engine being used. There was some nice detail in the skins, and the animation has certainly improved since Jedi Outcast. Having said that...I think the character skin detail and animation in games like NOLF2 is superior to that displayed in Jedi Academy.

As for the voice acting... I really can't see your point as far as this goes. I do think Jaden's male voice was not as well acted as the female voice, but other than that, the voices of the other characters sounded fine to me. Maybe you've been playing too much UT2K3 and got used to Gorge's dulcet tones, perhaps...but personally I don't think everyone has to have a 'macho' voice. They were just normal male voices, and fit perfectly well with the characters and settings.

So does it get better in later missions? No problem if it doesn't - we have a video/game shop, so no loss.

IN my view, Jedi Academy does get better as it goes along. The 'tier' missions are, as a whole, weaker than the 'core' missions, in my view. So wait until you play the Hoth and Vjun levels before discarding the game entirely.

Having said all of that...each to their own. If you don't find the game enjoyable, well, there's not much Raven or Lucasarts can do about that. They can't please everyone - myself included, some of the time.

As for waiting for a patch...that's not going to solve issues with the gameplay (at least, it shouldn't, in my view). I can't see them going back to rework the AI, or even give us faster blaster bolts, because the whole game has been 'balanced' over several months to get that style of play. To introduce sweeping gameplay changes now would fundamentally alter the whole experience, and lead to a lot more time trying to tweak and balance it.

The game is as it is...and if you don't like it, then that's unfortunate, but just one of those things. You don't have to be a Star Wars fan to enjoy it, in my view, but the style of gameplay is certainly different even from it's predecessor.

shukrallah
11-05-2003, 01:38 AM
I think a lot of people, including myself, would agree that the laser bolts should travel a lot faster. It is a bit silly when an enemy can dodge blaster fire from ten paces away. So I would agree with your point about projectile speed.

Well, its a game, and you need to see your bullets. If you want you can just edit each guns files, and change the shooting speed. They should travel faster... (never even thought about it) :D

Now, the problem with the AI is that it requires scripting to get them to many of the advanced things you want them to do. So naturally, when you have 10 stormtroopers in a room, you dont want to set up a confusing network of navgoals just to make them run and shoot and do this and that.... so they have that not so great AI which makes them say little taunts, and possibly run... maybe, but thats only if there are way points set up... if i could show you, id show you the kejim_post map (1st level in JK2) and show you how utterly confusing it was, just get the stormtroopers to do that little bit of stuff your talking about.... The game developers arent going to waste time (and it is a waste) on scripting every NPCs movement around the map, unless they are important. They were smart when they made the saberists AI, they dont need nav goals and stuff, they can do what they want, i wonder why they didnt do that for the stormies... :confused:

Think about it, before they even complete what they are scripted to do, you would have either cut there arm off, or put a blaster shot in the helmet... its easier (but not nessarily better) to have one way point, so when the enemy spots you, they run to that waypoint, and start to fight. The only thing is, they stay at that waypoint :( oh well....

PS: There is something really wrong with the mouse implementation in 1st person view. Reminds me of Hitman 2 if you switched it to 1st person view.

Whats wrong with it? maybe turn force feedback off, that might correct your problem, but i really cant say i know what your talking about...

MMP
11-05-2003, 01:58 AM
The game's obviously not for you. You'd probably rather play Serious Sam.

Originally posted by pellet2
Hi all,

Seems something went wrong in my previous 2 post attempts, so here goes again.

I started the second mission of Jedi Academy and man, this is real real boring and amateurish. Like stepping back to pre-Quake1 games. Zero AI, static predetermined enemy positions etc.

And the guns?? When will developers realize that in futuristic guns, based on energy pulse or laser etc, the projectile will move at a speed about 17 times faster than a bullet. In these ones they instead travel at the speed of blobs of dung being tossed around by hand. An artificial attempt to make things more difficult?

Anyway, I fell asleep in mission 1. So please tell me, is the rest of the game also this amateurish, or does it get better? For if not, it is simply wasting my time.

And a last thing, the character-graphics are atrocious. I'm also tempted to ask why all the male (human) characters look and talk like sissies (no, I did not say queers), but perhaps that would not be a tasteful question, so I'll just keep quiet. And I won't even mention the accuracy of the EAX implementation!

So does it get better in later missions? No problem if it doesn't - we have a video/game shop, so no loss.

Thanks a lot,
Chris.

PS: There is something really wrong with the mouse implementation in 1st person view. Reminds me of Hitman 2 if you switched it to 1st person view.

PPS: Why it doesn't give me the option to be in 1st person perspective at all times, is totally beyond me. The previous Jedi Knight (Outcast) was much better than this - well, at least it was playable and I didn't fall asleep. No, I am not a Star Wars fan, but I do love QUALITY action FPS games.

Astrotoy7
11-05-2003, 10:31 AM
If someone is more a fan of FPS, not really a SW fan and couldn't care less about the saber, I think theyd find JA boring too !!!

I put up a poll re "I play JA coz it lets me use the saber" and the results were pretty conclusive - 92% agreed.

Basically, if you want true FPS super guns and all that crap(which I personally dont give a toss about), then there are most likely better games out there.....

I can safely say that my enjoyment of this game is derived from the fact that it is a great star wars game, allowing the use of sabers and force powers ! That's it in a nutshell !!

MTFBWYA

Dethsaint
11-05-2003, 02:19 PM
I agree with Astrotoy7.

And since I do like the SW universe I think the game gets better since you also get to visit some cool places mentioned in the exp. universe books and even some from the movies. :)

Prime
11-05-2003, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by pellet2
So does it get better in later missions? No problem if it doesn't - we have a video/game shop, so no loss.Stop playing this game immediately! This game is not for you, and continuing to play it will only make you angerier and more frustrated. Sell the game it the at the earliest opportunity!

Originally posted by pellet2
PPS: Why it doesn't give me the option to be in 1st person perspective at all times, is totally beyond me. This is because of additional technical difficulties introduced by providing multiple custimizable characters, as opposed to having one default character (Kyle in JO).

pellet2
11-05-2003, 04:42 PM
I thank you all for your input. It is clear that this genre of game is not for me, and I don't mean that in a nasty sense at all. I can never get this psyched up about some cult thing. To each his own.

As for the Serious Sam recommendation... well, actually I played it (SE) when it was released... found it a bit too challenging though... my arms got real tired of carrying those heavy weapons you see... I didn't have the advantage of years of training in the light saber you know... just kidding.

Thanks all

Prime
11-05-2003, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by pellet2
I thank you all for your input. It is clear that this genre of game is not for me, and I don't mean that in a nasty sense at all. I can never get this psyched up about some cult thing. To each his own. Perfectly alright. To each his own. Good luck finding a game that is more fun for you! :)

Vanor
11-07-2003, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by pellet2
And the guns?? When will developers realize that in futuristic guns, based on energy pulse or laser etc, the projectile will move at a speed about 17 times faster than a bullet. In these ones they instead travel at the speed of blobs of dung being tossed around by hand. An artificial attempt to make things more difficult?
You'd have to take that up with George Lucas I think. In the movies the shots really don't travel all that quickly. The game simply keeps true to the movies in that.

BJP3E
11-07-2003, 04:40 PM
I play the games because I grew up with star wars, born the year ANH came out :) anyway I love the sabers, the use of basic star wars style guns ie E-11 blaster (maybe someone should make the stormtrooper rifle ?) the use of force, and the major region for me being the fighting against the Empire and other star wars based characters, that right there sells it for me

thusly I make regular use of the spawn code so I can wip up my own little epic saber and gun fights with the NPCs especially near pits :)

Prime
11-07-2003, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by BJP3E
thusly I make regular use of the spawn code so I can wip up my own little epic saber and gun fights with the NPCs especially near pits :) Heh, me too :)

BJP3E
11-07-2003, 08:04 PM
I spend more time goofing around than playing the game now that I got through it :) that corpse code makes this game all the more better. A floor littered with the aftermath of a battle

But if a person is seriously going to gripe over the AI then boy you are crazy The AI now far out does past games namely JK 1. I remember a level in that game on the valley of the jedi where you come to a huge foce sheild and there are several gun turrets and troops on the other side. they see you and start to open fire even though they have no chance of hitting you. their bullets just bounce back and if you stood their long enough they eventually started to kill each other with their own shots and they just kept shooting on. Now thats bad AI :)

however on that note its odd to me that in a spot or two? in JKO you come to a force sheild and see the imps and they you, yet they doing absolutly nothing, no going to an alarm or shutting the sheild off to get to you .... that I don't get

also odd to me but highly ammusing still was this in Kejim Post. Involving the puzzle floor room. two stormtroopers in the area before that room would sometimes retreat into that room if you got aggressive with them and the guns in that room would open fire on them ????? WTF LOL

SirYawnalot
11-07-2003, 08:42 PM
I disagree that you have to be a Star Wars fan to enjoy the Jedi Knight series. The only things I like about the series are Vader, the Emperor and lightsabers :P. So yes, I play Jedi Academy because it lets me use a lightsaber, but not because it lets me be a Jedi. I'd like it just as much without the force "stuff". (:edit: hell, I'd like if just as much if it let me use a lightsaber in medieval Norway :P)

I think judging the game by the SP is somewhat missing the point: I see JK2 and 3 as duelling games, therefore it's best to judge them by what the duels are like in my opinion.

NJX_Hatchet
11-08-2003, 02:18 AM
well I guess I must be a real geek... I actually read an explanation of that which made some (albeit made up) sense.

according to the starwars source material I've seen... blaster shots are NOT true energy weapons.

Each blaster power pack contains 2 things. a battery, and a canister of tibana gas.

the battery is used to power "lasers" or chargers that super heat the tibana gas which is then released with explosive force as a "blaster bolt".

Thus, the blaster bolt is not a true energy weapon , which explains the speed (or lack thereof) of the bolt.

I believe the only "true" energy weapons used are the tenlos disruptor, and the EMP gun.

and of course... the LightSaber :)

StormHammer
11-08-2003, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by NJX_Hatchet
Each blaster power pack contains 2 things. a battery, and a canister of tibana gas.

the battery is used to power "lasers" or chargers that super heat the tibana gas which is then released with explosive force as a "blaster bolt".

Thus, the blaster bolt is not a true energy weapon , which explains the speed (or lack thereof) of the bolt.

Yes, but half-cooked scientific excuses aside...if you can effectively dodge the fire from a blaster, then it is inherently useless as a weapon. Using a pistol that fires bullets would be more efficient, thereby rendering blaster manufacture a complete waste of time and resources.

And in the movies...the blaster bolts seemed to be pretty much instant-hit at close to medium range. So why should it be different in the game?

If it was meant to make it somehow easier for 'blocking' blaster bolts with the lightsaber - I imagine that could have been addressed simply by having your character move to block a shot before it's even fired. After all...you're supposed to be a Jedi, using the Force in a precognitive way to determine the time and rate of attack of your opponents, and use your inherent Force-powered reflexes to block with lightning speed.

Basically, there is no need for slow blaster bolts, IMHO.

Jawa8578
11-08-2003, 10:19 PM
Yes blasters travel slow, but thats because it looks like the movies.
Yes, they're useless compared to say a bullet (unless your neo :P) but then it wouldn't be star wars with bullets (and they'd dint me lightsaber :P).
Different types/spoeeds of shots adds extra depths to the game, such as dodging and targetting.
So unless they want to nurf that to make it more friendly to 'unkilled players' (as they have with other aspects), I think they should leave it.

Gabrobot
11-09-2003, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by StormHammer
If it was meant to make it somehow easier for 'blocking' blaster bolts with the lightsaber - I imagine that could have been addressed simply by having your character move to block a shot before it's even fired. After all...you're supposed to be a Jedi, using the Force in a precognitive way to determine the time and rate of attack of your opponents, and use your inherent Force-powered reflexes to block with lightning speed.

Basically, there is no need for slow blaster bolts, IMHO.

Oh, actually maybe there is a good reason for them to move slower...it may be because if they moved too fast, the collision detection might miss the shot, and it would go through stuff instead of impacting. This has something to do with the refresh rate of the physics and graphics not being properly synced (like the frame rate is higher than 60fps...60Hz is the speed of the polling, and you actually never see more than 60 unique frames per second.). This is something that John Carmack fixed in Doom 3 by putting a 60fps cap on the frame rate, but it was mentioned that Quake III had problems with missing things because of inconsistencies...