Basic Ideas: Immortal Requests?

[Kurgan]

If not, ignore this, if so, here's some requests:

(NOTE: whenever possible I think these should be easily toggleable on or off with cvars, additionally certain features should be easily seperatable into individual mods.. I see you are already doing this with the different packs that have been released on pcgamemods.com, so this is good).

These things MIGHT someday be remedied in another patch, but the first one didn't touch them and so I'm not holding my breath:


-JK2 style flip kicks for all Saber types. Same as JK2 as much as possible (requiring at least level 2 jump, saber in hand, etc). Should it use up Force? I dunno, up to you.

-Choke Hold grapple. Right now pressing Attack+Alt Attack when you have Melee (Fists) out and g_debugmelee 1 set does nothing. You put your fist out like you're going to grab but never do, no matter what.

What it SHOULD do is initiate the "choke hold" that Kyle Boss does in Single Player (you can do the choke hold with a different combo in Single player with the g_debugmelee 1 cvar and fists if you want to see what it looks like). It should do the same amount of damage (30) as the other two MP grapples (Attack+Alt Attack+Foward/Attack+Alt Attack+Backward).

-Sound effects for Cartwheel (Single and Dual Sabers). This missing sound effect can be heard in Single Player, but it's totally silent in MP.

-Option to use "old style" Rolls: Just a cvar to use the old style rolls from 1.0 that don't require you to jump first or build up a lot of momentum before you roll. This would mainly be of great use in Siege for non-Jedi who need rolls to survive much more.

-First Person Lightsaber option for Single and Multiplayer. I figure you're already working on this one with True View. As long as you can make the camera hold steady the whole time if you want to (like the JK2 1.04 style CG_FPLS 1), and have the option to either just see floating arms holding the blade on your end or your whole body holding the blade (minus the head getting in the way) and still keep the old option for guns... this would rock.

And since it's "True View" it should work with all Saber types and stances and still allow you to do all acrobatic moves (and not necessarily spin the camera around to make you sick).

Could it be made to work with Melee too? JK2 had fists (using the give weaponnum 14/weapon 14 cheat) in single player, so if references is needed, check there. The only thing was that in JK2 again it was "arms only." so Kicks would look very odd using g_debugmelee 1 (ditto for staff kicks). So I guess either make the model "arms and leg only" or else full body (maybe minus head) would be better. Just so long as the model doesn't obscure your view of the sabers/fists that you're using.

I'm sure you'll make the camera flip and other things, but it should be fully customizable so you can get the one you want. I just want one like was present in JK2 1.04 MP with CG_FPLS 1.

-Re-enable CTY, Jedi Master and Holocron FFA gametypes: Maybe this isn't a legit request because it may simply be a matter of making/tweaking maps or just converting over the JK2 ones. If it is, ignore this...

-Improved bot routes for all basejka maps, including Siege
Of course this is something I want, but Darth Kaan & his friend are already working on this, so not a priority unless you guys work together or something or to finish whatever they don't get done, if they don't, etc.

-Bot "Orders" in Team FFA, CTF and Siege: This would go hand in hand with improved bot routes, but basically make it so that (like in Quake3 Arena) a human player can designate themselves (or a bot) as "the leader" who can "give orders." These orders would be followed by other bots on their team. Orders like cover a person, camp an area or item, attack/defend the base, capture the flag (or carried Siege item) etc.

I don't know about other Q3 engine game, but Q3 had these and they worked great. This would greatly improve bot performance on team servers. I noticed in the text files for the bots they have "Order accepted" lines, but I've never gotten the bot orders to work. Maybe they don't need to be added and are just hidden, but it would help to know from somebody who's good with editing JA...

Thanks and good luck!

[razorace]

I've read thru your post and will respond tomorrow. (I'm tired.)

[Kurgan]

Thanks. I thought of one more:

-Bind Individual Voice Chat commands to keys This could perhaps be combined with the "bot orders" one.

[razorace]

What voice chat commands? We don't have the voice sounds in the first place...

JK2 style flip kicks for all Saber types.

Why? The only reason why people want it back is because it was an unbalanced move in the first place.

Choke Hold grapple.

I'll see what I can do. I still haven't decided how to handle the melee system with the new saber system I'm going to be working on.

Sound effects for Cartwheel (Single and Dual Sabers).

Seems reasonable to me.

Option to use "old style" Rolls

Maybe, we will see. I agree that the backroll needs to be doable without jumping.

[Emon]

Uh, razorace, Siege has voice commands.

Kurgan, you can already bind them to keys, I'm fairly certain. The most effective system I've seen is Enemy Territory's, which is entirely keyboard controlled, either with alpha or numeric keys (e.g. M for medic instead of 4 or something), and you can do it while moving around, so you don't have to stop to say something.

[Kurgan]

That may be true Emon, but I'm totally clueless as to what commands I would need to type in to bind them to keys.

Currently I've tried a few that people have suggested but to no avail. Right now all I can do is bind the "Voice Chat" to a key, meaning pressing the key brings up the menu.

What voice chat commands? We don't have the voice sounds in the first place...

RazorAce, if you look in the setup controls menu you'll see a "Voice Chat" function. Press the key associated with that and you'll see what we're talking about.

This option is available in Team FFA, CTF and Siege. It has two different voices, male and female, which correspond to the gender of the skin you're using in-game. It automatically plays the sound for all of your teammates as a sound file. There are some 28 different "commands." Additionally some text appears in the "team chat" to go along with it.


Also as to your comments Razor:


Why? The only reason why people want it back is because it was an unbalanced move in the first place.

That may be so, and they obviously had their reasons for taking it out. It's your project, so if you don't want to put it in as an option that's fine, let somebody else make a mod to do it. I just suggested it because it's available in Single Player and it might be fun to see it as a part of the extended melee moves. You could always reduce the damage to something similar to the staff kicks (1-2 hp's plus knock back and random knockdown, rather than 20 damage per hit as it was in JK2).



I'll see what I can do. I still haven't decided how to handle the melee system with the new saber system I'm going to be working on.

No offense, but you're going to change the saber system (radically altering gameplay?) but yet you don't want to change gameplay by adding flip kicks? It's your project, but I don't see the logic here...

Anyway, the melee system as is has punches, directional kicks like with staff and two grapples. They clearly intended to put the third grapple in but forgot to for whatever reason. Right now the choke hold grapple motion is there, it just won't "grab" and connect like it should, so the motion to grab is useless. It would just involve adding one animation from SP with the "effect" similar to the other two grapples (30 damage). Up to you of course, but even if you're going to rewrite the melee system, at least you could provide the option to use the "generic" classic grapple with the choke hold.

quote:
Option to use "old style" Rolls

Maybe, we will see. I agree that the backroll needs to be doable without jumping.


I can see perhaps Raven wishing to limit the "spamming" of the roll stab move by making rolls harder to do, however where rolls are really useful is for non Jedi and Melee fighters. The Jedi Vs. Merc gametype is truly messy, with rolls being impossible (as far as I can tell) to do except in the rare instance of falling off of a higher ledge to land maybe 3/4 of the time. Jumping in those cases doesn't even help you, because you have to have more momentum than regular walking speed gives you apparently. That and Jedi Vs. Merc messes up Siege and refuses to work properly in a team setting (you don't use a team skin and teammates will attack and hurt you occasionally even with friendly fire off).

The primary usage of roll for non Jedi is rolling under Trip Mines, landing from falls (since its so easy for non Jedi to die even from short falls, such as from faulty elevators) and to provide a bit of an escape manuver (unlike the Jedi who have Speed, Jump, Mind Trick and the various butterflys, cartwheels and flips, plus they can do rolls much easier anyway). The new roll method makes it especially hard for non Jedi in Siege because many of them have much slower walk/run speeds than Jedi (even without Force Speed) and they don't jump very high. Not as bad as the Mercs in Jedi Vs. Merc, but still pretty bad.


I don't think Jedi Vs. Merc was ever intended to work in Siege, but if you want to see some examples of the havoc it causes switch it on sometime. Jedi are forced to use only the saber. Plus if you choose a Jedi then switch to a non Jedi class, for the first "life" as that new class you'll have the skin of the previous class, but a saber and no force (your stances will be messed up two, with a single blade, but a initial "phantom stance" that you'll lose if you switch stances). Once you die it goes back to "normal." But it seems that rolling is much more difficult in Jedi Vs. Merc overall.

[razorace]

The primary reason why I'm not in favor of re-adding the flip kick is because it wasn't Star Wary. Everyone flipping off each other's chests instead of using their lightsabers just isn't right.

This thread has been renamed as per the system suggested in this thread (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=118042)

[Kurgan]

I see (and thanks for the rename!).

I did get the impression you wanted to make the game more "Star Wary" with the whole dynamic saber locking thing (which sounds interesting btw), so if that fits into your vision, more power to you then. Just thought I'd ask. ; )

I really like the "module" nature of your project though, because it lets you use only the improvements/changes you wish to use, or all of them too if you like.

[keshire]

Think of it like this. All the coding grunt work is done. Its open Source. Pick and choose what you like and modify it accordingly, then pack it as Bob's favorite features.

[razorace]

Originally posted by Kurgan
I really like the "module" nature of your project though, because it lets you use only the improvements/changes you wish to use, or all of them too if you like.

Thanks, that makes me feel better as I've been receiving some flak for breaking up the downloads. Picky bastards. :)

[keshire]

With the nature of the project its the most intelligent thing to do. I see it as more of packages than a mod.

[razorace]

exactly.

[Kurgan]

Heh, well I hope some of my suggestions were useful/helpful or sparked some good ideas.

Good luck with the project, as always!