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View Full Version : So.. DFII- Kyle has a GREEN saber. JO- Kyle has a BLUE saber? *JO spoilers*


Origim
11-14-2003, 11:13 PM
So far, i have not understood this.

In JO, Luck tells kyle to go on trail to get HIS (Kyle's) saber. So, I am assuming its the one from DFII, right? If so, why is it that in DFII, Jyles saber is green, however, in JO/JA his saber is blue?

Sam Fisher
11-14-2003, 11:37 PM
Well, it wasen't his, that was Yun's. Maybe he just decided against keeping a Sith lightsaber...

Neverhoodian
11-15-2003, 12:07 AM
Well, Kyle's first saber (green) was Qu Rahn's saber. Assuming you take the Light side ending in JK, Kyle then uses Yun's yellow lightsaber after Boc destroys his green one.

Now this is where I'm a bit confused:

Correct me if I'm wrong, (I've never played MOtS) but it looks like Kyle constructs an orange lightsaber in MOtS before temporarily falling to the Dark side. After Mara Jade brings Kyle back to the Light side, he gives his lightsaber to Luke Skywalker and vows never to use it again. My question is why is the blade blue when he goes back to get it in JO, or does he make a blue one before JO?

Samuel Dravis
11-15-2003, 12:32 AM
1. Kyle keeps having the focusing crystals of his lightsaber stolen by theives.

2. Kyle makes sabers, uses them for a while, and then auctions them off to make money for the Jedi Academy (before that he had a private stash). He still skims off the top sometimes.

3. Kyle drops his saber in the mud a lot and it shorts out continously.

4. Jawas.

5. He fights a lot of sith, and sometimes the saber gets chopped in half.

6. Kyle compulsively changes his lightsaber color every year or so.

7. Where'd he put the damned thing?

8. Luke asked if he could borrow one, but ended up losing it.

9. Corran used the 'learn by taking apart and destroying' method. Kyle was not happy.

10. Sometimes, Kyle gets angry and bashes the saber hilt on his knee (Note, that is how Dooku got his saber curved).

Sam Fisher
11-15-2003, 12:32 AM
My question is why is the blade blue when he goes back to get it in JO, or does he make a blue one before JO?

From what I've read, it doesn't say anything about a blue one. Maybe it just went better with the Kyle model...

shukrallah
11-15-2003, 02:17 AM
Yeah, thats something ive noticed.. the JK2 model doesnt look that good with any other saber color than blue (in my opinion)



I think that kyle didnt want to keep yun's saber, or something happend to it. Then in JK2, luke just gave kyle that saber... kyle didnt have anything to do with the saber, he just needed one, and then luke gave him that one (unless of course kyle couldnt pass the test, then he couldnt have it)

but then thinking about it more, luke says "your saber is..." he says YOUR.... maybe someone should make a SP mod about it :)

Astrotoy7
11-15-2003, 06:01 AM
Whats not to say kyle didnt make his blue saber after going through his initial stage of training at the yavin academy. Theres been a huge discussion at the force.net as to who were in the "jedi Praxeum" - namely the first 12 students luke trained in the new academy. Many agreed that kyle was one of these, and then left. The Jedi Academy Trilogy novels have been vague on outlining the whole 12.....(thus the debate) So Kyle comes to the academy to give training a go, makes his blue tube, but doesnt like the whole jedi lifestyle, so leaves it all behind.... I think that is what happenned.

OR

alternately, when he found himself in JO, he just pressed
SHIFT and ~
sabercolor blue


MTFBWYA

Crow_Nest
11-15-2003, 06:33 AM
http://www.thelightsaber.com/history1.htm will answer your question. ;) just been updated.

Lots of interesting infomation there. But beware, ep3 spoilers are also found in that website.

EDIT: Page 2 in that link is the answer to your question. :)

Neverhoodian
11-15-2003, 05:05 PM
Hmmmm, so Kyle's saber in MOtS was still Yun's saber? In that case, it's safe to assume he made his blue saber between MOtS and JO.

The most plausible explanation is the argument that Kyle was one of the first 12 Jedi students at Luke's Jedi Academy, but left shortly thereafter. (Things must have been rough in the Jedi Academy's early days, as Corran Horn left the academy as well. But why is he a Jedi trainer in JA? Maybe he returned to the Academy after the events of I, Jedi.)

Iblis Reborn
11-15-2003, 06:01 PM
thanx for the link Crow

i had been to that page before but now its updated :)

Bifford
11-15-2003, 06:23 PM
The game makers decided a blue color was nicer and truer to the movie spirit than a yellow saber, so they ignored continuity. Trying to speculate when and how his lightsaber became blue is pointless, because we're just making up stuff that the authors themselves never established. In this case, the best reaction is to shrug and wait until the writers give an official explanation.

Kurgan
11-15-2003, 08:09 PM
Hypothetical Scenario (put into the language the kids are using these days for clarity & hippness):

Raven: D00d this JK s3ries r0x0rz! L3ts mak3 a s3qu3l!

LA: Ok d00ds U do teh sekul.

Raven: SWEET!

(later...)

LA: Oh btw d00ds King George rapped: G00d Guyz = blue/green/purple, BAd A$$'s = red. Mmkay?

Raven: But..last game.... orange...?? ffs?

LA: Talk to the hand 'cause teh face ain't listenin' pal

Raven: Bummer d00d...

(later...)

Some Raven Dude: OK d00ds tey alr3ady did green & purple waz left?

Other Raven Dudes: Blu3?

Some Raven Dude: W3 th3r3 d00d!!!!!11

Greymon
11-15-2003, 08:30 PM
Once again Kurgan enlightens us mere mortals on the workings of the universe.

Seriously guys, I bet Kurgan is right. The saber colors likely have nothing to do with story. Why do you need to justify something as trivial as saber colors with a very flimsy bit of story?

Kurgan
11-15-2003, 08:38 PM
Still it would have been nice.

I just edited my cfg files (and kyle ai file in JA) so that he had orange and just ignored the inconsistency.

Burrie
11-15-2003, 08:38 PM
The most plausible explanation is the argument that Kyle was one of the first 12 Jedi students at Luke's Jedi Academy, but left shortly thereafter. (Things must have been rough in the Jedi Academy's early days, as Corran Horn left the academy as well. But why is he a Jedi trainer in JA? Maybe he returned to the Academy after the events of I, Jedi.)

Actually, that's not an argument, that's a fact. From Kyle Katarn's Entry from the New Essential Guide to Characters

Shamed by his failure, Kyle Katarn enrolled in the first class of Luke Skywalker's Jedi Academy. After a brief stay, he turned his back on the Force, fearing that he might slip to the Dark Side again. He gave his lightsaber to Luke and let his Force skills atrophy.

Although there is no mention made of Kyle's saber(this was written before Jedi Outcast was released), it is interesting to note that it says HIS lightsaber and not Yun's Lightsaber.

DarkLord60
11-16-2003, 12:06 AM
Here's how I think of it nothing maters when it comes to JO/JA cause there like the prequals of the movies. I mean to say they suck compared to DFII. So it doesn't mater how he got a blue saber in the new ones. cause I don't think they will make it to to star wars data bases. But anyway blah blah he probably made a new one in a attempt to retrain with mara after recovering after the Drumond Kass mission in Mots. So after awhile in training to forget the ways of the sith he gave it all up and handed his new lightsaber to luke telling him he no longer wants to be involved in the Jedi ways. :) thats all I can think of if you get what I mean.

Samuel Dravis
11-16-2003, 12:13 AM
Like I said, Kyle runs into a lot of Sith. And Kurgan is probably right - its more of a 'Kyle's skin goes with blue' or 'what other color is left' thing.

DarkLord60
11-16-2003, 12:28 AM
Ok then what Kurgan said.

Astrotoy7
11-16-2003, 05:42 AM
Originally posted by Burrie
Actually, that's not an argument, that's a fact. From Kyle Katarn's Entry from the New Essential Guide to Characters

Although there is no mention made of Kyle's saber(this was written before Jedi Outcast was released), it is interesting to note that it says HIS lightsaber and not Yun's Lightsaber.

thx Burrie, I think that puts it beyond a doubt, Alotta these kids think EU starts and ends in the games.... as to kyle keeping yuns saber, maybe as a momento, but not to use, thats just not right...

If you have the New Essential Guide to Characters, I'm Jealous !

Also, KURGAN chimed -
put into the language the kids are using these days for clarity & hippness):

kids these days ! I guess dyslexia is cool nowadays, when I was a kid, it was the "A Team" that was cool !! :p

MTFBWYA

Bifford
11-16-2003, 05:30 PM
In the Star Wars d20 pen-and-paper roleplaying game, a Jedi tends to fight better with a lightsaber of his own construction (possibly because of some mystical attunement with the Force crystal within). I don't know whether this is taken from the EU, but it certainly gives any Jedi good reason to eventually construct his own lightsaber; if this wasn't the case, the Old Order would probably have had a special division of specialised "Jedi blacksmiths" who constructed lightsabers for everyone else (like with samurai swords).

Astrotoy7
11-16-2003, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by Bifford
I don't know whether this is taken from the EU, but it certainly gives any Jedi good reason to eventually construct his own lightsaber

it is part of jedi training, be it in the old or new order to eventually construct your own saber... there are of course training sabers in the interim, which the cute little padawans have in AOTC....

I cant exactly remember how Luke figured his green saber out. I do remember reading *somewhere in the EU ether* that within anakins blue saber(he was using in ANH/ESB), were plans for saber construction as well as the co-ordinates for dagobah.....

as for JA, it would be great to have had some backstory about how exactly jaden figured out his/hers.....

MTFBWYA

DarkLord60
11-16-2003, 10:36 PM
Luke was able to construct his own by looking at some of obi wans journal entries and plans obi wan left in his hut.

Kurgan
11-17-2003, 04:53 AM
Yeah it's become something of a "brain bug" that building a lightsaber is a "rite of passage" for Jedi and that it requires "use of the force" to build it.

We see no evidence for that in the canon films at all except for a throw away line by Vader in ROTJ "I see you have constructed a new lightsaber, your skills are complete."

Just look at how many lightsabers the Jedi go through in the prequels. Sure I suppose the comparison is with samurai swords and the whole mystique behind them, but seriously...

I prefer to interpret it in light of another quote (yes it comes from Highlander 4, so sue me!):

"Jin Ke: Honor's not in a weapon, it's in the man."

Astrotoy7
11-17-2003, 05:18 AM
Originally posted by Kurgan
Yeah it's become something of a "brain bug" that building a lightsaber is a "rite of passage" for Jedi and that it requires "use of the force" to build it.

We see no evidence for that in the canon films at all except for a throw away line by Vader in ROTJ "I see you have constructed a new lightsaber, your skills are complete."

Mr K - you love popping "brain bug" into these discussions dont you...

and you arent starting that 'canon = films' fiasco are you....

numerous EU sources have stated a jedi being able to build a saber is one of the defining elements of being a jedi. There can be no doubt though, that the lightsaber is *VERY* important to the jedi, thus being able to build one would be equally as important. There is no film, nor EU reference to sabers being built by a 'thrid party'

Seeing you only accept first level canon(films) Mr K :

Ep 2 AOTC : Obi Wan to anakin (chastising him on nearly losing his lightsaber, again) "This weapon is your life"

Ep 1 TPM : Little Ani to Qui-Gon "You're a jedi arent you....I can tell by your laserword"

Qui Gon replies "how do you know that i didnt kill a jedi for it"
(might not be word for word but thats pretty much what was said...)

if a lightsaber was so easy to come by, every merc and his poodle would be flashin em around. It doesnt seem to be as easy as going to the "Saber Swapmeet" and gettin one !!

just because a saber might be lost or destroyed(even on a frequent basis) it doesnt mean they are any less special to their creator/owner.....

as for Highlander 4 .... "good grief" (Charlie Brown style)... I cant believe you have admitted to watching that crap smeared on celluloid...... what were you thinking man !!!

MTFBWYA

Kurgan
11-17-2003, 08:00 AM
Mr K - you love popping "brain bug" into these discussions dont you...

When you're dealing with a franchise as big as Star Wars you can't help it!


and you arent starting that 'canon = films' fiasco are you....


Well in case you were wondering the films ARE canon, this is LucasFilm's official policy. Sure, the rest of the officially liscensed (& Non-Infinities) stuff might be part of the "official continuity" but if it contradicts the films.... the films are "right," not the contradicting source, sorry. Don't blame me, I didn't make those "rules."


numerous EU sources have stated a jedi being able to build a saber is one of the defining elements of being a jedi. There can be no doubt though, that the lightsaber is *VERY* important to the jedi, thus being able to build one would be equally as important. There is no film, nor EU reference to sabers being built by a 'thrid party'

So are we to assume that Yoda built all those lightsabers for the younglings (who appear not to be a day over 10 years old each) in AOTC? Is making your second lightsaber as big a "defining moment" as your first?

Which comes first.. being a Jedi or building a lightsaber? Chicken vs. Egg?

From watching the films I got the distinct impression that "being a Jedi" was "a hard life" and meant sacrifice and following a code (or "your feelings" if that code no longer existed in the case of the post-Order days). Putting it all down to the construction of a weapon kind of diminishes the whole thing doesn't it? If you were to ask me, making the weapon would be the FIRST THING (or one of the first things) not the fulfillment of the Jedi's career.

That doesn't mean it isn't special. It's like getting your first car or your first job or going on your first date, etc. You'll probably attach sentiment to it and remember it, but it's not the "end" of something to most people, only the beginning of a (hopefully) successful journey through adulthood.


Seeing you only accept first level canon(films) Mr K :


I never said that. I say that I agree with LF's canon policy, that the films are the "Highest canon" and contradicting sources don't override them, no matter how "official" they otherwise be.

So the EU writing still has value as far as continuity is concerned.. from a certain point of view. ; )


Ep 2 AOTC : Obi Wan to anakin (chastising him on nearly losing his lightsaber, again) "This weapon is your life"

No problem there. We know that Obi-Wan has gone through a few lightsabers in his time, and Anakin ends up doing the same. Maybe the first one he builds as a little kid is still special (even if he doesn't have it anymore)? I don't see the contradiction.

As this relates to Kyle it could work lots of different ways.

If you believe that building a saber is the defining moment you have Kyle with the saber he built in MotS. Does he keep it and give it to Luke? Or does he give that one up, build another one and then give THAT one to Luke? I figure it would seem more significant if he gave the Orange one up, since he "doesn't deserve it" because he almost used it to kill a friend. Thus "getting it back" has more symbolic presence (well to me, leave that up to the storyteller). ; )


Ep 1 TPM : Little Ani to Qui-Gon "You're a jedi arent you....I can tell by your laserword"

No problem here either. No reference is made to it being a saber he built or that it was his first one, only that he has a lightsaber (the kid gets the name wrong of course).

It would be akin to a modern child saying "You're a policeman aren't you... I can tell by your shiney medal (badge)."


Qui Gon replies "how do you know that i didnt kill a jedi for it"
(might not be word for word but thats pretty much what was said...)

if a lightsaber was so easy to come by, every merc and his poodle would be flashin em around. It doesnt seem to be as easy as going to the "Saber Swapmeet" and gettin one !!


Maybe lightsabers in the Republic are regulated, so that only Jedi are allowed to legally carry them, much like certain assault weapons in the United States with regards to military and police.

And you and I both know that Jedi aren't the only ones to carry lightsabers. Ever hear of some guys calling themselves "the Sith"?

Anakin is a young slave with no father living on a backwater planet, his head full of stories told to him by crusty old spacers, I wouldn't expect him to get all the facts right.

Anyway, the idea that "every merc and his poodle would be flashin em" don't get too carried away yet. Heck, in the EU Aurra Sing supposedly has a huge collection of lightsabers, and she's force sensitive (but apparently not a Jedi or Sith). Heh.. anyway, I digress.

The point is that the lightsaber is a dangerous weapon. Somebody who doesn't know what they're doing may cut off their own arm or something. Plus there's the fact that in the age of blasters and such a lightsaber user would need "jedi like reflexes" to be any good.

For example, how many swordsmen do you see in the modern world take out a bunch of guys with machineguns? None, because the swords guy wouldn't get two feet before he was mowed down. So giving a lightsaber to somebody without the skills to block projectiles (our pull his enemy's guns away and run circles around them, etc) is suicidal. Might as well have him carry a big neon sign saying "Easy Target!"

Even the EU supports this. People with lightsabers but no force training generally suck and don't last long in combat, period.

We saw Han Solo use a saber, but only to cut open a Taun Taun to save his buddy from dying of exposure. But if you put him in combat, I bet you anything he'd get fragged in no time.


just because a saber might be lost or destroyed(even on a frequent basis) it doesnt mean they are any less special to their creator/owner.....

Of course not. The "brain bug" I was speaking of wasn't that Jedi use lightsabers or that lightsabers aren't "special" but rather that building a lightsaber is something "only a Jedi" can do and it requires mastery of the Force.... or the logical leap that building a lightsaber MAKES one a Jedi.

We have no information from the movies when Jedi first build their lightsabers (we only have Luke building his off screen when he's in his 20's or so, an atypical Jedi living 20+ years after the collapse of the Order with relatively little professional guidance).

However, putting aside what we think we know from certain EU sources, why couldn't we speculate that they simply have weaponsmiths that build lightsabers for a living for the Jedi that use them?

Did every Samurai build their own sword (and the act of making the sword proved he was a samurai)? Somebody fill me in 'cause I'm not an expert on Medieval Japan. Just curious for comparison's sake.

Or how about this... is the test of a Special Forces officer building his own sidearm? Or a policeman, is building his first pistol the defining moment of his career?

Granted, these may not be perfect examples, but if we're going to compare it to something, how do those stack up?


as for Highlander 4 .... "good grief" (Charlie Brown style)... I cant believe you have admitted to watching that crap smeared on celluloid...... what were you thinking man !!!

I own it on DVD. Wasn't nearly as good as the first or second ones, but I still enjoyed it. Call me a fan. ; )


MTFBWYA

And Also With You...*



*imagine my avatar saying that to you

Crow_Nest
11-17-2003, 09:22 AM
What is "MTFBWYA"

Tesla
11-17-2003, 10:17 AM
Correct me if im wrong but the sabers the younglings are weaker sabers and could do no damage to metal objects, possibly burn the skin but not crop an arm off like a full saber can do which the older jedi use. :)

And about Kyles saber, my view is that the saber he uses in JO, was one built for training use like the numerous cloned Reborn hilt design.....but Luke gave it to Kyle and thats his saber and saber design. :D

My 50 Pence. :p

Astrotoy7
11-17-2003, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
Which comes first.. being a Jedi or building a lightsaber? Chicken vs. Egg?

WOW ! - I am quite honoured, such a lengthy reply from the admin from the Dawn of Time... :p !!

I think we are all verging on putting far too much thought into it, and do not want this to become one of those "wet & messy" force.net forum discussions... :) (speaking from mucho experienco)

However, I will take home these *facts*, and that should be enough for me :

*Lightasbers are associated with Jedi/Sith(force attuned individuals to a certain degree) In fact they may be considered symbolic of them.....

though, not all force sensitive individuals are jedi/sith, and not all sport a lightsaber, and maybe vice versa.... From the EU, not many would consider Leia a "jedi".... she does have a saber(which she built herself :p), but mainly uses the force as a pan-galactic baby monitor to keep track of her kids..... :p

*Alot of EU characters are documented as having "built their own saber" - Corran horn in "I, Jedi" Including various other descriptions(especially) in the "Jedi Academy Trilogy", not to mention "Lightsabers" - one of the "Young Jedi Knights" books(by the same author as the JA trilogy) where it describes the Solo kids starting their lightsaber training..... as well as the consequences of a poorly built first saber....

Alot of these characters seem to have highly individualised sabers, Corran horn used a speeder bike handle, Calista(Lukes old EU girlfriend) had a very pretty one,(IIRC described in 'Children of the Jedi') However, these were not necessarily their *very first* sabers...

*Although it may not be the quintessential rite of passage for a jedi to either build or begin to carry a saber, it can definitely be associated some importance since the lightsaber is a symbolic weapon of a jedi, and much time would have been invested into training with them....

*Kyle Katarn was for a short time, part of the Jedi Praxeum. It would not be ridiculous to assume he built his saber then and left it on Yavin with Luke when he left....


Still -
It is definitely cynical to assume padawan mini training sabers are made by them....

Samurai are Samurai, Special Forces guys are exactly that too, Jedi are fictional characters, with an aura of mystique. Assigning them a special and symbolic weapon, making them look a certain way(all perhaps "brain bugs") just gives them more definition in this created universe....

Still, also -
Highlander 4 bites, hardcore....and yes, KURGAN, your avatar is definitey scary....

DYNAMIC CROW - ROLL BACK THE PATCH !
May The Force Be With You Always

Kurgan
11-17-2003, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
WOW ! - I am quite honoured, such a lengthy reply from the admin from the Dawn of Time... :p !!

*bows*


I think we are all verging on putting far too much thought into it, and do not want this to become one of those "wet & messy" force.net forum discussions... :) (speaking from mucho experienco)

Well if we don't throw some excitement into it, what's the point of debating? Might as well say "who cares" (as I'm sure some folks have already done after reading a few posts, heh!).


*Lightasbers are associated with Jedi/Sith(force attuned individuals to a certain degree) In fact they may be considered symbolic of them.....


The Sith! My point exactly. Jedi = Lightsabers ignores the Sith. Sure the Sith are "thought to be extinct" and hiding etc for the past thousand years, but that's not always been true, even by EU standards.


though, not all force sensitive individuals are jedi/sith, and not all sport a lightsaber, and maybe vice versa.... From the EU, not many would consider Leia a "jedi".... she does have a saber(which she built herself :p), but mainly uses the force as a pan-galactic baby monitor to keep track of her kids..... :p

See that's the thing, according to some EU authors Leia is pathetic in the Force, barely able to use the Force to activate a light switch. According to others, she's so friggin' powerful that she can use the "power of Luminesce beings" to seperate the Cloned Emperor from one of his Force Storms and simultaneously bring Luke back from the Dark Side. She also has the skills to duel Vader saber to saber.


*Alot of EU characters are documented as having "built their own saber" - Corran horn in "I, Jedi" Including various other descriptions(especially) in the "Jedi Academy Trilogy", not to mention "Lightsabers" - one of the "Young Jedi Knights" books(by the same author as the JA trilogy) where it describes the Solo kids starting their lightsaber training..... as well as the consequences of a poorly built first saber....

Sure, and I would assume that with the Jedi Order destroyed, invididuals having to build their own sabers would be a more common occurence. We just have no evidence of it being common practice pre-Empire, do we? Or do we?


*Although it may not be the quintessential rite of passage for a jedi to either build or begin to carry a saber, it can definitely be associated some importance since the lightsaber is a symbolic weapon of a jedi, and much time would have been invested into training with them....

I agree completely. All I disagree with is the notion that if you don't build your own saber you're not a Jedi / build your own saber you're automatically a Jedi.

Frankly the "you have done the impossible, and built a lightsaber on your own" plotline for JA felt weak to me. Are we to assume you just "knew how to do it" without having any instruction or reading, etc?

We've seen Jedi do some amazing things, but basically they're saying we should buy that the Force "told you" how to build a piece of technology. Hmmm...

Sort of like somebody built a motorcycle without any experience or instruction in mechanics... and went on to become the greatest biker daredevil ever.... ; )

(Then again, maybe it's not so far fetched for a legendary story)

(On the other hand, was what Luke did any less amazing with his saber? After all, he just found the books and spare parts in his dead teacher's house and did it all himself.)


*Kyle Katarn was for a short time, part of the Jedi Praxeum. It would not be ridiculous to assume he built his saber then and left it on Yavin with Luke when he left....

When did they stop calling it an academy and start calling it a Praxeum? Just curious...


Still -
It is definitely cynical to assume padawan mini training sabers are made by them....

But then again, why so far fetched? Anakin built C3PO and a Pod Racer apparently on his own and he was what, 11 years old, tops? It may have taken him years, but that makes it an even more amazing feat, considering how young he'd have to be when he started...


Samurai are Samurai, Special Forces guys are exactly that too, Jedi are fictional characters, with an aura of mystique. Assigning them a special and symbolic weapon, making them look a certain way(all perhaps "brain bugs") just gives them more definition in this created universe....

LoL exactly so, the only trouble with brain bugs is sometimes they appear for no reason, and they end up being silly compared to alternate explanations. Sort of like how in Star Trek Jeffrey's Tubes suddenly became the primary means of accessing important ships systems, when in the original show we only ever saw one of them.

Or the fact that Tatooine Desert robes seem to be the "uniform" of the Jedi Order, even though they are centered on Coruscant... (even Lucas fell for some of them).

A brain bug is simply a stale idea. Something old is copied into something new, forgetting why it made sense to have it in the first place... sure it can be forgiven, but, well it's annoying sometimes! ; )


Still, also -
Highlander 4 bites, hardcore....and yes, KURGAN, your avatar is definitey scary....


Muhahahahahaha! Well it's true, any Highlander movie without Kurgan in it was definately lacking. ; )


Tesla:

Correct me if im wrong but the sabers the younglings are weaker sabers and could do no damage to metal objects, possibly burn the skin but not crop an arm off like a full saber can do which the older jedi use.

That's a cool idea, but where does it come from? Source? (Sort of like the "saberstaff is a training saber" idea...) Just curious.

And anyway, if a little tyke Youngling builds a saber with a weaker power cell, isn't he still doing an amazing thing by building it in the first place?

It would be sort of like somebody building a gun that can only shoot blanks... still quite a feat of engineering skill and craftsmanship.

Neverhoodian
11-17-2003, 02:02 PM
I don't think building a lightsaber is the last step to being a Jedi, but it is a step. This is how I think it works, IMO:

1. Upon being indoctrinated into the Academy, (or Jedi Temple in the Old Republic's days) each trainee gets a "trainer saber." This saber's blade is basically light and doesn't do any damage. Rosh alludes to this at the beginning of JA:

"I'll probably get one of those stupid training sabers." (or something to that end)

2. Upon proving oneself in basic Force training, the student builds a lightsaber of his own, a "Padawan" saber. Though Padawan sabers function like normal lightsabers, they're rather crudely built and may have problems, such as not being waterproof. (this explains Obi-Wan's saber shorting out in water in the deleted scene of Episode I. Perhaps Kyle used a Padawan saber in JO, since he couldn't use it in water either.)

3. Once becoming a full fledged Jedi Knight, he/she constructs a second lightsaber. Since the Jedi is more experienced at constructing lightsabers, their second one is more ornate and reliable. Unless the saber is destroyed or lost, it's the saber they'll use for the rest of their Jedi career.

Note that these "rules" are not expected of every Jedi student, such as the fact that Jaden built his/her own lightsaber before starting Jedi training. They're considered as general guidelines to lightsaber training.

However, we could consider Jaden's first lightsaber as his/her Padawan saber and Jaden's second one his/her "Jedi Knight" saber after the first one was destroyed by Tavion.

Kurgan
11-17-2003, 10:18 PM
Now for the color symbolism thing (probably BS but bear with me):


Kyle's green saber. Borrowed from Yoda and given to Rahn, who passed it to Morgan who stashed it in WeeGee then Kyle found it.

It's "green" because he's "new" in the Force. It also represents his "hope" for revenge (much like Luke's green saber may have represented his hope for redemption of his father).

Kyle's Yellow Saber. Had it only for a brief time, it's "yellow" as a symbol of cowardice, because Yun wasn't brave enough to die, was weak to let himself be led by the Dark Jedi, and as a symbol of shame, leading him to sacrafice his own life to redeem himself. Carried by Kyle in his honor and used to defeat the supposedly superior (and strong willed) Dark Jedi. Used to carve out the faces of Rahn and Morgan Katarn on the walls of the Valley... resolution.

Kyle's Orange Saber. Kyle is flirting with the Dark Side. So he made his saber orange to let everybody know that. Oops.. I mean, he thought it was a cool color. No wait, he liked cheeto's snacks a lot and... hmm. Maybe the crystals used to make orange sabers were common in the place he was at at the time.

Ah well, in any case, it's a new color, yay!

Kyle's Blue Saber. After rejecting the path of the Force, he made it just in case he ever decided to go back (and the orange saber was lost somehow) and he gave it to Luke. Or maybe Luke made him build a new one but his heart just wasn't in it. Blue representing his "true blue" nature, and a desire to return to the "unifying force" principles of the Jedi ideal... went well with his Bantha Herder outfit too.

Samuel Dravis
11-17-2003, 10:22 PM
Correct me if im wrong but the sabers the younglings are weaker sabers and could do no damage to metal objects, possibly burn the skin but not crop an arm off like a full saber can do which the older jedi use.



That's a cool idea, but where does it come from? Source? (Sort of like the "saberstaff is a training saber" idea...) Just curious.

It's from the Jedi Apprentice series. Apparently the training sabers do burn things, but don't cut them.

idontlikegeorge
11-18-2003, 02:19 AM
Kurgan: "When did they stop calling it an academy and start calling it a Praxeum? Just curious..."

I think the Praxeum is the formal name of the facility, and "Jedi Academy" is more of a common name. Kind of like how Aristotle's academy was named the Lyceum or whatever.


Personally, I consider the continuity to go like this:
Kyle gets Qu Rahn's green saber from Weegee, Boc destroys it on Ruusan. He then uses Yun's yellow saber to finish off the Dark Jedi and free the Valley. Kyle then, most likely enshrines Yun's saber, considering he made a statue in honor of the young Jedi - in any case, it's unlikely he would have continued to use it.

He then builds the orange saber sometime between JK and MotS - JK around 0 to 1 year after Endor, MotS around the clone Emperors campaign (5-7 years after Endor?). From different EU sources, during this time he joined the New Republic and became a special ops unit commander.

I consider the MotS saber color to be somewhat apocryphal, since it was made before the scripture about Blue/Green/Purple color scheme - but also, being Orange, I feel it could be considered "borderline red" - which is good symbolism for what Kyle's character goes through during MotS. But because of that, I feel it was a MotS-period specific lightsaber.

After MotS, since probably soon after Luke formed the Academy - wasn't it supposed to happen soon after the Clone Emperor's defeat? - and Kyle joined briefly, and perhaps built the Blue saber while there... then decided to abandon his Force training and live the life of the mercenary he once was.

Also, considering how vague the time period of Jedi Outcast/Academy is, it could be anytime between the founding of the Academy, and the Zerg (oops I mean Vong) invasions. That's like what... ten, fifteen years?

Just my thoughts on the subject, like it matters. I did wanna post this earlier this morning, but stupid Lucasforums wasn't working good. :rolleyes:

Taran'atar
11-18-2003, 05:13 AM
considering how vague the time period of Jedi Outcast/Academy is. . .

It's not vague at all. As I recall, the opening scroll-blurbs say pretty clearly that Outcast and Academy take place 8 and 10 years after ROTJ respectively.

Kurgan
11-18-2003, 08:47 AM
Final theory:

Green = Lime
Yellow = Banana
Orange = Orange (duh)
Blue = Blueberry


His tastes simply changed over the years... *rimshot*
=====================

Seriously though, as far as timeline considerations (*goes into meditation mode*) IIRC, this is how it stacks up:

Dark Forces (begins before ANH, ends sometime before ROTJ, though possibly the final events could have taken place anytime between the end of ANH and 6 months before ROTJ).

Jedi Knight: roughly 2 years after ROTJ.

Mysteries of the Sith (5 years later): 7 years after ROTJ

Jedi Outcast (8 years after battle of Endor, thus 1 year after MotS, 6 years after JK1): 8 years after ROTJ

Jedi Academy (15 years after ANH, thus 1 year after JK2, 2 years after MotS, 7 years after JK1): 11 years after ROTJ*


I could be wrong about this last one, I've read all kinds of stuff ranging from 10-12 years. The trouble is some people list it based on ANH, others based on ROTJ... though according to the Unofficial Starwars Compendium (made before the prequels) ANH to ROTJ takes place over a period of 4 years.

In any case, JA definately takes place before the NJO.

As to the "non canonical colors" remember that JK2 and JA did away with this (certain characters in both games have non movie colors, I think perhaps the restriction only applies to player characters in SP, then again, in JA you can choose any color but red until you go bad... go figure).

idontlikegeorge
11-18-2003, 08:58 AM
Yeah, there would be the ABY dating system, and the ABE system (after battle Yavin, Endor).

I completely spaced out Jedi Outcast's opening text crawl... :p

So yeah, I figured there was more time between MotS and JO... I mean, Luke talks like Kyle hadn't used the Force in years, but with this chronology it would have been months, or maybe a year...

Anyway, I guess, if you don't like it, change the saber colors in the game! :p


I guess as far as how the games expand the saber colors, well, I think it was thought to be an acceptable "bend" of LucasWORD, since it is a game environment first, and a SW universe story second. Personally, I don't see why lightsabers can't be other colors.

Astrotoy7
11-18-2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by Kurgan
When did they stop calling it an academy and start calling it a Praxeum? Just curious...

....Luke uses this term to describe the first 12(or so) students he had at the new academy on Yavin IV....

MTFBWYA

Tesla
11-19-2003, 09:34 PM
That's a cool idea, but where does it come from? Source? (Sort of like the "saberstaff is a training saber" idea...) Just curious.

And anyway, if a little tyke Youngling builds a saber with a weaker power cell, isn't he still doing an amazing thing by building it in the first place?

It would be sort of like somebody building a gun that can only shoot blanks... still quite a feat of engineering skill and craftsmanship.

It's from an Episode 2 book i have, i think, or it's from another book. I can't really remember.
The sabers aren't built by the Younglings, there "pre-made" already for training use, i'd guess Yoda would have made them or one of the council members.

But the Training sabers of the JA timeframe, would be able to inflict damage, the older ways of Saber building for new padawans/students are lost, (the Jedi Temple would have been destroyed in EP3 - EP4 timeframe) So the students of lukes academy have to be more wary. IMHO of course. :D

Astrotoy7
11-20-2003, 08:01 AM
Originally posted by Tesla
The sabers aren't built by the Younglings, there "pre-made" already for training use, i'd guess Yoda would have made them or one of the council members....

But the Training sabers of the JA timeframe, would be able to inflict damage, the older ways of Saber building for new padawans/students are lost, (the Jedi Temple would have been destroyed in EP3 - EP4 timeframe) So the students of lukes academy have to be more wary. IMHO of course. :D

Yes, the training sabers of Ep2 are describes as you say in those DK Visual Dictinoaries. NO the younglings didnt make them, just in case KURGAN strolls in here with more Highlander 4 quotes ..

In the EU,as I have described above, training sabers used at the Yavin academy, including by the younger students(eg the solo twins, alema rar) inflicted a sharp charge, sometimes a burn. Alema rars lost an arm after a poorly built and exploded(i think it was wither her saber, or jacen solos....)

MTFWBYA

Burrie
11-20-2003, 08:44 AM
Actually, that was Tenel Ka. :p

In any case, I can vaguely remember reading somewhere that they originally meant kyle to have a yellow lightsaber in Mysteries of the Sith but were unable to due to some issue... something with pallete colors or the like. Can anyone back me up on this?

Astrotoy7
11-20-2003, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by Burrie
Actually, that was Tenel Ka. :p

thx for the heads up ! I think this popped into my head because I Aleema Rar was just mentioend in TUF ; 21 books into the NJO, YJK novels are a bit fuzzy at the moment... :)

MTFWBYA

Kurgan
11-21-2003, 07:53 AM
In any case, I can vaguely remember reading somewhere that they originally meant kyle to have a yellow lightsaber in Mysteries of the Sith but were unable to due to some issue... something with pallete colors or the like. Can anyone back me up on this?

I don't know about that, I thought that the saber mats (textures) used a universal pallete so there was never any problem.

Though now that I think about it the only saber colors in MOTS SP were orange, red, and purple (JK has the whole kit 'n' kaboodle).

Though both games had all the colors in MP. Again, maybe you have a point? Dunno...

I have the prima Strategy Guide for JK1 (I got it not for strategy but for the behind the scenes stuff). I just wish I knew how to get the MotS one.. that would be neat to read about (if one was even written that is).

irish_texan
06-08-2011, 11:01 PM
1. Kyle keeps having the focusing crystals of his lightsaber stolen by theives.

2. Kyle makes sabers, uses them for a while, and then auctions them off to make money for the Jedi Academy (before that he had a private stash). He still skims off the top sometimes.

3. Kyle drops his saber in the mud a lot and it shorts out continously.

4. Jawas.

5. He fights a lot of sith, and sometimes the saber gets chopped in half.

6. Kyle compulsively changes his lightsaber color every year or so.

7. Where'd he put the damned thing?

8. Luke asked if he could borrow one, but ended up losing it.

9. Corran used the 'learn by taking apart and destroying' method. Kyle was not happy.

10. Sometimes, Kyle gets angry and bashes the saber hilt on his knee (Note, that is how Dooku got his saber curved).



hahaha classic.