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View Full Version : galaxies jedi dueling (vs. JA jedi dueling)


lilJedi
11-24-2003, 08:39 PM
did anyone see the video of jedis dueling in galaxy???? it looks awesome, the collision detection is so much better...it looks as if light sabers are actually...hitting. much better engine than the aging quake 3 engine. i wonder if another incarnation of jedi knight is to be released if it will use the doom 3 engine and if they will make for more things possible.

how the players moved looked fluid too. i find in jedi knight the character tends to make fast twitches ...but they have this engine modelled to reflect the physics of swinging and weight and stuff.

kel-dor male
11-24-2003, 08:43 PM
I know I saw that too, thats how I wish the Saber fighting these games were like that. oh well

Prime
11-24-2003, 08:48 PM
So you guys are saying that you want to queue up attacks and point and click combat instead of FPS combat where you control every swing?

Wudan
11-24-2003, 08:55 PM
It's an entirely controlled and turn based environment - there's no end to what coolness you can't do.

There's ways of making JKA combat better, the problem is how much better can you get it and still have low system requirements?

lilJedi
11-24-2003, 08:59 PM
bump the sys requirements up to 1.7 ghz and done, who has <700 mghz anymore?

that is turn based? i thought all combat in sw galaxies was real time?

well heck, who knows then...but i think some braniac developer could do a better system of fps dueling for jedi knight series.

that combat if it is turn based looks even better than the one in kotor...the one in kotor, seen on videos didn't look as fluid to me, it looked near as twitchy and sudden as i was talking about.

t3rr0r
11-24-2003, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by lilJedi
that is turn based? i thought all combat in sw galaxies was real time?
that makes me laugh.

Kurgan
11-24-2003, 09:04 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't SWG simply use an upgraded (heavily modified) EverQuest engine?

I haven't seen what the Jedi combat is like honestly...

kingdomwinds
11-24-2003, 09:04 PM
The sabers in that video look like ****. They dont even fan right. They are just glowing sticks. The duel looked bad too. Jedis dont stand in one place when they fight.

lilJedi
11-24-2003, 09:04 PM
come on seriously.....i have not played it, i have only seen screenshots and this jedi video thing. i have not really even read about it or followed it. im not interested in paying 15 a month to play this game. so i know nothing of it...so my above question still applies...

lilJedi
11-24-2003, 10:25 PM
everquest is a fairly old engine now isnt it...

Master William
11-24-2003, 10:39 PM
I watched that, and man it sucks. Jedi Academy is that exact same thing. I saw no precise hits. KOTOR was and is better.

lilJedi
11-24-2003, 11:16 PM
im getting kotor , is it really must play or is watching close up of characters talkingnot really that fun...

kingdomwinds
11-25-2003, 12:15 AM
I think kotor sabers and sabercombat looked better than swg

Shotokan
11-25-2003, 06:57 AM
that is turn based? i thought all combat in sw galaxies was real time?

SWG is slightly turn based. It only looks like it's real time. Convinced me too, but I still play it.

Prime
11-25-2003, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by lilJedi
im getting kotor , is it really must play or is watching close up of characters talkingnot really that fun... I'm playing KOTOR on PC, and it is a blast. The combat is point and click, but the battles are very cinematic. Definitely one of the best games I've played.

That being said, JA/JO is still the final word in Jedi FPS combat. Right now you won't find anything better than that (which is more than adequet IMO).

Darth MarcII
11-25-2003, 05:46 PM
I just got KOTOR for the PC. Haven't started it yet, but the game is pseudo-turned based combat from what I have heard. the combat still lokks very fluid in KOTOR.

I did see the video for the Jedi duel from SWG. It looked great, I don't think it was turn based, combat happens in real time in SWG I thought. The only issues I have are the sabers. They look like the low-res sabers in Dark Forces. They really need to work on those.

Rad Blackrose
11-25-2003, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by lilJedi
did anyone see the video of jedis dueling in galaxy???? it looks awesome, the collision detection is so much better...it looks as if light sabers are actually...hitting. much better engine than the aging quake 3 engine. i wonder if another incarnation of jedi knight is to be released if it will use the doom 3 engine and if they will make for more things possible.

how the players moved looked fluid too. i find in jedi knight the character tends to make fast twitches ...but they have this engine modelled to reflect the physics of swinging and weight and stuff.

Now bringing you Star Wars Galaxies: MIRACLE BUILD!

(5 bucks goes to the person who knows where Miracle Build came from)

Chuahtemoc
11-25-2003, 07:20 PM
where can i check out that video?

i've been weighing between kotor and swg, and quite frankly, i'm not sure which one i should get. i hear that swg has a monthly fee, though which sounds kind of stupid.

Kurgan
11-25-2003, 11:01 PM
I believe swgalaxies.com has it.

Saw it. Pretty cool, looks like the duels in the classic trilogy (two guys stand there and swing at each other, rather than flipping and leaping all over the place like the prequels and JA!).

The only thing that was a little off was how one of the duelists kept "kicking" the blade of the other person (wouldn't their foot get burned off doing that? heh).

The question is how its controlled..... do you queue up moves in a "turn based" kind of thing like KOTOR or is it real time?

The thing about Galaxies (this may be good or bad to you), Jedi are VERY RARE. Not everyone who plays gets to be one. You have to play for awhile and eventually (if you're lucky) "unlock" a force sensitive character, which you can then build as a Jedi.

From what I read if you wait awhile Jedi will become more plentiful and it will be easier to be one. Of course if you want the thrill of "being one of the first" you'd have to be in it right now doing that stuff.

The monthly fee sucks, but when you think about it, having a persistent online world of thousands of players and frequent updates... well, it makes sense. Gotta pay for all that somehow.

The graphics for both games are great. I just won't be getting into SWG simply because I don't have the time needed to devote to a game like that (a MMORPG). If I did have it chances are I wouldn't play beyond my 30 day free trial. ; p

Chuahtemoc
11-25-2003, 11:06 PM
thanks kurgan. i'll have to swing by and pick that up some time.

personally, i think saber combat in JA won't be getting much better any time soon--more realistic combat would entail saber locks every 5 seconds, on which note, I haven't seen a single one ever in JA. I saw at least 1 a match in JO, but i haven't seen them in ANY regard. I suppose raven took them out because with two sabers, you can just take the other saber and dice your opponent up, lol.

any thoughts?

boinga1
11-26-2003, 05:11 PM
Yeah, Galaxies jedi are virtually nonexistant. You suppsoedly have to master 8 professions (you won't be told which 8) or something to be one. Then everone is supposed to hunt you down and all, but from what I hearm evryone just stands around watching the 133T J3D1s duel each other. :lol:

Agen
11-26-2003, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by lilJedi
bump the sys requirements up to 1.7 ghz and done, who has <700 mghz anymore?

Uh... lots of ja players have less than 700 mhz (i can name 4 peope IRL), I have a T-Bird 1.4 ghz... that isn't a 1.7ghz and i'm one of the biggest and long-term fan of the jk series (df too) and I'm sure many bigger fans have lesser computers than me.
Ya can't just bump the system requirments up... there has to be a reason.. like graphical improvements (JK2 looks almost the same as ja therefore almsot the same requirments)


that is turn based? i thought all combat in sw galaxies was real time?
I really think turn based combat is poor and I would detest the sabre combat if it wasn't real time :p


that combat if it is turn based looks even better than the one in kotor...the one in kotor, seen on videos didn't look as fluid to me, it looked near as twitchy and sudden as i was talking about.
I agree but Galaxies saber combat looks to be nothing but.... LOOK BETTER, I'm sure it's not going to challenge KotoR or Ja's :p

personally, i think saber combat in JA won't be getting much better any time soon--more realistic combat would entail saber locks every 5 seconds, on which note, I haven't seen a single one ever in JA. I saw at least 1 a match in JO, but i haven't seen them in ANY regard.
Eh? I've seen lots, they're a lot quicker and bit more lethal than JK2 but they're definately in there :p In fact, in the server setup thingy, it asks if you want saber locks to be disabled.

Kurgan
11-26-2003, 06:49 PM
Don't expect miracles, but RazorAce over at the OJP is working on a new saber mod. Basically the idea of having really short saber locks with every swing or something, to make it "look more like the movies."

Will it work? Wait and see...

idontlikegeorge
11-26-2003, 08:56 PM
Personally, I don't think the combat is so great in KotOR... I mean it works fine for what it is, an RPG - and it does look good... but it's all looks.

You want awesome duels in Jedi Outcast/Academy? Stop spamming katas, stop running in circles, use yellow stance, and instead of swoosh-swish-swoosh, make single, well timed swings.

I don't know what people are talking about when they say no saber locks in Academy. I get them all the damn time... in every alpha build of my map I spawn in tons of Reborn... and pretty much 1 out of 5 duels I get a lock. And if I don't run, and use just yellow stance (since I'm stuck with it w/o cheating since I have no player setup scripts yet), I get very interesting duels... even with the classic Reborn.

In Academy, the saber combat is much better from my experience; saber collisions, knockbacks, disarms. Have you checked out the "melee mod"? I mean, that does some awesome ****, and that's with just the extentionalized data availible without any SDK.

I have more than enough faith that people behind OJP and such can create fluid looking saber battles, while keeping it functional in a real-time environment; something "Galaxies" and KotOR doesn't do.

Besides... there's more to things than looks. Gameplay and function should always come before aesthetics. And in a fast pace real time F/TPS like Outcast/Academy, the saber systems work very well.

(Atleast in Single Player, I can't stand Outcast after 1.03 - and I don't play Academy MP because of that still)

Oh yeah, and whoever mentioned raised the base system requirements... your an idiot. The point of developing is to create effects that can work well on the largest base of consumer computers. When custom modders and mappers make their things "for better computers" then the base game, it mean's they don't have the skills to make things as efficient as they need to be.

Prime
11-26-2003, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by boinga1
but from what I hearm evryone just stands around watching the 133T J3D1s duel each other. :lol: Kind of sounds like JO...

razorace
11-26-2003, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
Basically the idea of having really short saber locks with every swing or something, to make it "look more like the movies."


Or something. :D

Kurgan
11-27-2003, 01:22 AM
Here he comes, HIDE!!!! *whistles*

No disrespect RA, I was sure you'd come along sooner or later to explain your Master Plan (tm). =)

Astrotoy7
11-27-2003, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by Prime
I'm playing KOTOR on PC, and it is a blast. The combat is point and click, but the battles are very cinematic. Definitely one of the best games I've played.

That being said, JA/JO is still the final word in Jedi FPS combat. Right now you won't find anything better than that (which is more than adequet IMO).

The unmatchable PRIME giving KOTOR a thumbs up is a great sign.... :) I cant wait to play this game when it is released locally in a cpl of weeks....

I look at it this way
I Love RPG
I like the way BioWare does RPG
I Love STAR WARS/EU

*all the ingredients are there for a fantastic game if you ask me* :D

MTFBWYA

Master William
11-27-2003, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by Prime
Kind of sounds like JO...

...and JA.

Prime
11-27-2003, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by Master William
...and JA. Indeed. Although JA doesn't seem to be quite so bad so far as JO was...

rut-wa jodar
11-28-2003, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by Kurgan
Don't expect miracles, but RazorAce over at the OJP is working on a new saber mod. Basically the idea of having really short saber locks with every swing or something, to make it "look more like the movies."

Will it work? Wait and see...




I recall a JO mod sounding very similar to the mod you are describing. I think it was called the "Movie Battles mod". The short saber blocking work surprisingly well.

lilJedi
11-29-2003, 06:18 AM
i thought no one was replying to this anymore. i stopped gettin email notes. now i know why, someone in their wisdom decided to alter the topic.

anyhow, anyone having played galaxies and kotor, which combat system is more fun? or are they just very very similar with only minor nuances different?

KaiaSowapit
11-30-2003, 06:03 PM
I'm still trying to figure out wtf was up with the guy in the coolie hat?

P.S.: KotOR rocks!

lazoras
11-30-2003, 10:22 PM
i think if they mixed the saber combat of JK jedi Outcast with the acrobatics and graphics of Jedi Academy with the mmorg and role playing stuff of SWG they would have the ultimate gaming experience right there...that would be the absolute best game on the planet as far as i say. i absolutly hate kotor because its like final fanasies combat, turn based. i like being able to push my charactor to swing faster if i want him to and operate on reflex and what not. technique and skill. thats how i like to fight. not pick an attack then wait...thats so fake.

RenegadeOfPhunk
12-01-2003, 04:42 PM
I recall a JO mod sounding very similar to the mod you are describing. I think it was called the "Movie Battles mod". The short saber blocking work surprisingly well.


...I'm glad someone noticed ;)

The micro-locks concept that Razor is planning should end up looking better and cleaner than the simpler 'short' locks I implemented in MB - but they still looked pretty authentic imo...


Don't expect miracles, but RazorAce over at the OJP is working on a new saber mod. Basically the idea of having really short saber locks with every swing or something, to make it "look more like the movies."


I think it's fair to say what's being planned for the OJP saber system is going to be a LOT more than just short saber locks!!

Prime
12-01-2003, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by KaiaSowapit
P.S.: KotOR rocks! Word.

boinga1
12-01-2003, 11:52 PM
KOTOR is awesome. Only reason I don't have it yet is the 4.0 gigs needed....but I'll probably ask for it for Christmas.

:rock:

Blue_Lightsaber
12-02-2003, 01:20 AM
SWG is a hyped up piece of garbage. Who wants to pay $15 a MONTH on top of the game price, which is $50? Yippie two idiots stand there waving their uber leet glow sticks at each other pretending to fight. OOOOOOHHH I'm so impressed. At least in JA there's some feeling of a jedi duel.

I used to follow SWG like my dog when I'm holding a sandwich.

They said there was gonna be a huge battlefield and constant fighting over territories, there would be player cities and jedi at the release and a whole bunch of other crap (cough vehicles cough). You get in the game and what do you find?

No PVP, no one fights they all pay $15 a month to sit in a cantina and beg for credits.

"A constant battlefield, your friends dieing by your side in battle!"

What do you see? Oh no my friend just got killed by a rat! My comrades are dieing in battle! AAAAAAAAAHHHHH!

"The enemy will be constantly pursuing the jedi, they constantly have to be on the alert, anyone could be a bounty hunter working for the empire."

Yeah, and yet these two jedi are "fighting" in the open?

My advice: Get KOTOR it's about 6 million times better and is actually fun and cool. The lightsaber duels actually look like lightsaber duels. KOTOR is also turn based, but these devs actually put effort into their game and look how it turned out. SWG was rushed and look what happened.

The moral of the story: Never rush anything.

Prime
12-02-2003, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by Blue_Lightsaber
KOTOR is also turn based Actually, if you turn off all the pausing, it doesn't seem turn based at all. This sort of thing can easily be customized to each player's liking.

Originally posted by Blue_Lightsaber
The moral of the story: Never rush anything. It sounds so easy, doesn't it. But it is not, believe me. We have contracts, shipping dates, deadlines that can all lead to rushed deliveries. If it was so easy to avoid, no one would do it. With good planning this can be limited, but it can still happen, especially with something as huge and complex as Galaxies.

Still, that game is not for me :)

Butt_Whisper
12-03-2003, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by Chuahtemoc
thanks kurgan. i'll have to swing by and pick that up some time.

personally, i think saber combat in JA won't be getting much better any time soon--more realistic combat would entail saber locks every 5 seconds, on which note, I haven't seen a single one ever in JA. I saw at least 1 a match in JO, but i haven't seen them in ANY regard. I suppose raven took them out because with two sabers, you can just take the other saber and dice your opponent up, lol.

any thoughts?

I have gotten into about 3 saber locks playing JA online. One was a real "button mashing" battle between me and another guy. This one was in a power duel server, and the other 2 were in FFA servers. Not sure how the admins had their server set up (with more chances to get a saber lock or not). And Each occurred in a different server. So they can happen

lilJedi
12-05-2003, 05:51 PM
Oh yeah, and whoever mentioned raised the base system requirements... your an idiot


you need to get with the times son. don't whine because you have a 5 year old pentium 450 or some crap. people buying computers these days are not going to buy much less than at least 2.2ghz so you can raise the sys requirements, then people like you can either keep playing duke nukem, or you can upgrade.

when cd roms first came out and games for cd roms first released like wing commander, wing commander 3 sold millions of copies. Geist sold millions of copies...and cd rom drives were brand new.

Kurgan
12-05-2003, 08:28 PM
PC game developers only hurt themselves when they release games on top of the line (or near top of the line) min system requirements.

Economically it makes sense to release a game with the lowest possible system specs in order to allow it to be played in a satisfactory manner by the largest number of computers possible.

If they figure the percentage of the market that has below a pentium 450 is really low (say only 10%) they are likely to go with higher system reqs in order to make the game they want to.

But all sorts of things limit them. Budget, time constraints, etc.

After all, a lot of games start development on top of the line, "way cool" engines and end up taking years to complete, at which time the "wow bang" factor has often been dramatically reduced.

Oh sure, you say, people always buy new computers/upgrade to make their games look better/play better right?

Well, to a point and it's still only a niche "hardcore elite gamer" market.

How many people can be bothered to buy a new computer every 9 months?

That is why consoles are so popular (far outstripping any other gaming medium), because the system specs are always the same! No compatability issues ever need happen. And the developers are forced to work with what they have, rather than letting high system requirements act as an escape clause for shoddy programming or driver support. Additionally of course consoles have the built in advantages of being exteremly low maintainence (no need to do reformats or software installs) and the hardware is much more affordable (in the hundreds rather than thousands of dollars for a complete system, plus since they aren't being constantly upgraded and made obsolete, they come down in price rather quickly). Consoles pick up the cost again with more expensive games (say 50-60$ and staying at that price for longer than a 20-40$ pc game that may drop in price in a few months) of course, but still.


We should give PC game developers credit, after all they work in a cutthroat market that has been shrinking to the behemoth of console gaming for quite some time. But to say that people just need to constantly upgrade is silly.

And there have always been games that despite top of the line hardware STILL have problems.

Hell, I remember just a month or so ago people with top of the line systems complaining endlessly about the choppy framerates they were getting with JA (using the antiquated Q3 engine no less). There's a lot to be said for proper product support, optimization, etc.



And anyway, we all know that graphics alone don't make a game. Look at all the pretty games that won awards for flashy visuals then were promptly forgotten.

It's sort of like movies. Movies get awards for special effects, but if they lack a good story and/or compelling characters, what is there to bring us back? Special Effects get outdated pretty quickly to these days...

Lathain Valtiel
12-05-2003, 08:40 PM
KOTOR reqs are absurd.