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Melwasul
11-25-2003, 01:27 PM
All:
- Saber Horrican / Yawspeed (that makes you go round fast with special moves or something (very lame))
- Staff-Butterfly (makes it less damage or something)
- Lighting (it's too powerful)
- Melee (hands - it should be possible to kick with right-click)

Siege:
- Sometimes Bridge in Hoth doesn't work
- Droid-head doesn't respawn
- Bike-bug (when i join in desert at spectator and looks some players, and join the game, the view changes crazy to a bike-user)
- Kyle without team (sometimes someone join as a Kyle in non-team)
- Remove grip-force in Desert-map (players have no chance to stop grip except jedis)
- Korriban (dark demolist should have trips and detonation pack only, not thermal detonator - let light demolist get it instead)

Powerduell:
- Line-system is alittle crazy (sometimes i'm first in line, so suddenly last or moved back)


There is more, but I can't get it in my mind right now :D


edit:
- Cloak doesn't work sometimes in Siege
- All droid parts rescued, but the game still plays until timeout

PG|Prometheus
11-25-2003, 01:44 PM
I agree about the bugs, but the thermals and grip keep. It can all be overcome with teamwork, which is the key point of seige.
Theres also the bug where dessert seige doesn't finish even though all the parts have been resued (maybe the patch fixed that, I've not played much since).

Melwasul
11-25-2003, 01:51 PM
oh yes, droid parts too... sometimes we rescued all, and the game doesn't complete (fix that too)

I'm also agree with Grip really, but it's so awesome when i'm alone and he grips me :P but not a problem really ;)

Lathain Valtiel
11-25-2003, 02:00 PM
Counter butterfly with lunge or get out of the way.

Kurgan
11-25-2003, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by Melwasul
All:
- Saber Horrican / Yawspeed (that makes you go round fast with special moves or something (very lame))

The same thing can be done with any kata. Since scripts aren't disallowed, this will always be a possible exploit. Just use many of the counters available to stop the Saber Barrier which will work regardless of how fast it is yaw-speeded/bound.

If you don't know what those are, here they are again:

On servers that allow all weapons:

-DEMP2 (charged shot works best)
-Any explosive attack (Merr Sonn, Concussion, Thermal Detonators, Trip Mines, Det Packs)
-Blaster/Disruptor (aim for their unprotected head from above or aim low for their legs)

On sabers only servers or if you don't have any guns:

-Push (as they crouch to start the move)
-Drain (without mana, they can't do the move)
-Lightning
-DFA (Strong Stance)
-Crouch under their blade and attack
-Roll Stab under
-Well timed Dual Saber/Staff or Strong stance attack can knock their blades to the ground (stopping the spinning and forcing them to retrieve them)
-Lunge (perfectly timed, can be combined with crouch or roll)
-Kata/Twirl (timing is crucial, somewhat difficult)
-Crouching Saberthrow (risky, if he aims downward you may lose your saber!)

Then of course you can always just avoid them until they run out of mana (two uses of the move) then attack. Unless of course you're playing on a server that has force mana regen time set to 0, in which case you should employ one of the other strategies mentioned above.


- Staff-Butterfly (makes it less damage or something)

If you're worried about damage, simply use saberdamagescale 2.

The move is a one hit kill if timed and aimed properly. But has been always very easy to avoid.


- Lighting (it's too powerful)

Use Absorb or Drain. Or hit them with your own Lightning.


- Melee (hands - it should be possible to kick with right-click)


It's possible to kick with Alt Fire+direction using the g_debugmelee 1 cvar already. It's just like staff kick.


Siege:
- Sometimes Bridge in Hoth doesn't work
- Droid-head doesn't respawn
- Bike-bug (when i join in desert at spectator and looks some players, and join the game, the view changes crazy to a bike-user)
- Kyle without team (sometimes someone join as a Kyle in non-team)

I haven't seen any of these bugs myself (either with the patch or without), but you should report these to Raven if you have experienced them.

The "Kyle" thing MIGHT be due to extreme lag, since he's the default model. To others he might appear normal... also check to see if the server is using Jedi Vs Merc or some other weird cvar, as those can mess up Siege pretty badly.


- Remove grip-force in Desert-map (players have no chance to stop grip except jedis)

It's called teamwork. Grip hardly does any damage compared to what you can do with heavy weapons and explosives. Have a teammate cover you (even a non-Jedi) and you won't have to worry about being gripped. After all, a Dark Jedi can only grip one person at a time. Otherwise just shoot him (his saber is lowered when he grips you, so he can be hurt more than he hurts you).


- Korriban (dark demolist should have trips and detonation pack only, not thermal detonator - let light demolist get it instead)


Why? Without thermal detonators the Demolitionist is far too weak, he would only be able to set traps, having no ranged attacks whatsoever. He's fine the way he is. And the Dark Jedi Demolitionist doesn't have Det Packs (only the Light Side Demo does).


Powerduell:
- Line-system is alittle crazy (sometimes i'm first in line, so suddenly last or moved back)


Never seen this, but then I don't play Power Duel very much. Are you sure you're not just confused because of the pairing/solo system?


edit:
- Cloak doesn't work sometimes in Siege

I HAVE seen this bug a few times with the patch, I hope that is fixed. I told Mike Gummelt about it, but others should let him and other Raven folks know as well.


- All droid parts rescued, but the game still plays until timeout

Never saw this, but I've heard other people report it.



Anyway, bugs are the things Raven has said they will fix. Gameplay changes are not. Sorry...

Lathain Valtiel
11-25-2003, 02:16 PM
Lunge has the power to defeat virtually every other special. You can lunge DFA, you can lunge rollstab, you can lunge Barrier, you can lunge butterfly, you can lunge every single kata.

Thusly, nerfing any kata is useless. What we should nerf is the stupidity of n00bs to run into them.

By the way.. Kurgan, i see you're a fan of Kallieria.

Kurgan
11-25-2003, 02:48 PM
Yeah, too bad Kaillera* hasn't been updated in a long time : (





*(for those wondering, it's a freeware protocol for playing old emulated games online)

Lathain Valtiel
11-25-2003, 02:50 PM
Eh, as long as Christophe keeps pumping out Winamp I'll live. Besides, it's fairly functional as is now...

Rad Blackrose
11-25-2003, 05:09 PM
I hope anti-yawspeed modification cvars are available the minute the SDK is released.

Kurgan, what do you mean "aim perfectly." By aim perfectly, I hope you mean "hump the leg of the opponent like a dog in heat."

Lightning is only powerful if the saber is inactive, or you are using saber offense 0 (fists).

Some of the siege bugs and poor map design (blue crystal room, anyone?) do need to be rectified. If I was not tired, I would love to go into detail on each and every problem.

Prime
11-25-2003, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by Lathain Valtiel
Thusly, nerfing any kata is useless. What we should nerf is the stupidity of n00bs to run into them. It sounds so easy when you say it :)

Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
Some of the siege bugs and poor map design (blue crystal room, anyone?) do need to be rectified. I don't know much about the first one. But I certainly do about the second one. Why did they put a couple health packs and super shields in the same spot? People can FFA for hours and never die! :(

Chuahtemoc
11-25-2003, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
The "Kyle" thing MIGHT be due to extreme lag, since he's the default model. To others he might appear normal... also check to see if the server is using Jedi Vs Merc or some other weird cvar, as those can mess up Siege pretty badly.

"Kyle" isn't the default model. "stormtrooper" is. It's gotta be a different bug, then... :confused: hmmmm

Melwasul
11-25-2003, 07:27 PM
I still want to do something with saber horrican (kata), it's so boring... I still can die if i roll-stab, or crouch-up-saber, why can't just make that we can't turn left or right? Would not be a problem?

I'm not experience with Siege-bugs.

I dont know why Bridge doesn't work

Never had Kyle-skin, but someone had (and that was without nick, and not in some team - not in the team-list (TAB))

Anyway, i get problem to roll-ground - is it a bug? i can't roll on some place, and some place i roll without problem... Didn't get this problem before the new patch.

Lathain Valtiel
11-25-2003, 08:37 PM
You must be a very bad player if you can't lunge right through any oncoming special... I'm nearly blind and i can do it consistently. Not even mega yawspeed saves em.

Chuahtemoc
11-25-2003, 09:15 PM
hey, give 'im a break, man. people spam butterfly and katas all the time, it pisses me off too.

there have been thousands of threads like this (no offense Melwasul, i agree with alot that you say), and none of them are that much different from the previous one. The glitches are things that will be fixed through patches, but it'll take time.

:rolleyes:

now, on the subject of the katas and butterflys, and goddamn people who just do two or three moves over and over again--
i've found ways around them. Force speed, for instance, is great for getting around behind a kata-spammer and roll-stabbing him. I think that Force Sense (Seeing) is priceless, especially if you have a gun like a repeater or a rocket launcher or something. Most players underestimate Force Seeing because of its uselessness in JO, but with a wider range of things you can see, i think it's great. Being able to see the person coming around the corner and plopping a secondary-repeater blast on them is fantastic, not to mention that you can see health packs, weaps, etc before you enter the room. this way, if you need to make a health/armor/weap dash, you know right where to go.

I hope that helped some what ]explaining some things to get around kata and special move spammers. ;)

Kurgan
11-25-2003, 09:38 PM
Rad:
Kurgan, what do you mean "aim perfectly."

I mean hump the leg of the opponent like a dog in heat.

As to the blue crystal room, I guess I'm not enough of a map designer to know what you mean... ?


Chu:
"Kyle" isn't the default model. "stormtrooper" is. It's gotta be a different bug, then... hmmmm

You're thinking of Single Player (in which case it is the stormie), but in MP it's Kyle. Just try typing in the model of something that isn't available in MP (like the rockettrooper or rancor) and you'll get Kyle.

You're getting confused with SP again (hey, it happened to me a few times when I was writing my JK2 guide!). Force Seeing only lets you see players (ally and enemy), it doesn't let you see weapons or anything else, EXCEPT in SP.

Spamming doesn't bother me (of course I don't lower the force regen time on my server). If people form a pattern it's easy to crack. It's more fun when you play people who know the counters to those moves, but you can still fake them out if you're smart about it. ; )

The thing is, it's like any move, you can't just expect to win with one move. Eventually they'll adapt, and vice versa. Do it wrong and you're in trouble...

Lathain Valtiel
11-25-2003, 09:44 PM
The only point i agree on AT ALL is the yawspin. That is a blatant exploit that makes it much harder to counter. it's doable, but it's so much harder, especially if they;re using staff.

In fact, i just ran into a staff yawspinner. Used the jumping spin kata once, I botched the counter, then he left, accusing me of laming.

Do the math.

I NEED DECENT OPPOSITION.

Kurgan
11-25-2003, 09:50 PM
Was that in the game we played? Cause if so, I didn't notice...
; )


Yeah, yawbind scripts... meh.

I just haven't run into them yet....

Chuahtemoc
11-25-2003, 09:53 PM
oh i didnt know kyle was default in mp. interesting. I wonder why they did that.

Lathain Valtiel
11-25-2003, 10:21 PM
One thing i would like though is making butterfly lose the chance to block lunge. I don't know about you, but I would think it'd be retarded for a near direct hit of lunge to be completely blocked.

Happened just now, twice. I was about to go nightmare mode on this bastard who only used butterfly, before lag spikes hit and he left. Wasted opportunity.

Chuahtemoc
11-25-2003, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by Lathain Valtiel
One thing i would like though is making butterfly lose the chance to block lunge. I don't know about you, but I would think it'd be retarded for a near direct hit of lunge to be completely blocked.

agreed. personally, i think that people who run into a fight then immeadiately butterfly are little girls... they are the ppl who are the real "noobs and lamers" per se. i mean, come on, i don't think the butterfly is even necessary unless you've got ppl all around you. :rolleyes: but of course, people have to spam it and ruin the coolness... :mad: morons!

Rad Blackrose
11-25-2003, 10:35 PM
I mean hump the leg of the opponent like a dog in heat.

As to the blue crystal room, I guess I'm not enough of a map designer to know what you mean... ?

siege_korriban, blue crystal room. Get a few defenders to the higher section. Time your force pushes just right so when the elevator comes down from the attackers' pushes, it comes back up.

It's a lockout spot, unfortunately, and really sucks if there are a few demos upstairs. The demolition class on the attacking team needs thermal dets in order to prevent the lockdown, but all they have is det packs.

Chuahtemoc
11-25-2003, 10:41 PM
one of the smartest things i have seen people do in that room is put mines on either side of the door casing where the elevator drops. :p its funny when people are all like, "oh i won't be killed!" run through, and get blown up by mines teehee
:cool:

Melwasul
11-26-2003, 10:49 AM
maybe i'm a bad player (but you never tested me)

i'm playing in PowerDuell-servers that is just jump and saber atk/def on... I can't use push, pull, all these craps...

Yawspeed is so crap... rollground doesn't work sometimes (bug?) and crouch-up-split works sometimes. Why dont make special move that we can't turn left or right? (not hard?)

Chuahtemoc
11-26-2003, 11:10 AM
You'll get better in time. Someday you'll learn that everyone needs Push/Pull on level 3. And then you'll get better, lol. :p no, really, though, you do need level 3 push and pull to counter these incredibl "i'll push/pull stab you a million times" kind of people.

Kurgan
11-26-2003, 11:22 AM
siege_korriban, blue crystal room. Get a few defenders to the higher section. Time your force pushes just right so when the elevator comes down from the attackers' pushes, it comes back up.

It's a lockout spot, unfortunately, and really sucks if there are a few demos upstairs. The demolition class on the attacking team needs thermal dets in order to prevent the lockdown, but all they have is det packs.

I've known about the possbility of long range push tactics for awhile, but I'm surprised more teams don't use them when I play (ah well). I confess I don't use them on that map.. maybe that makes me a bad player? Dunno, I'm still learning. ; )

That map DOES seem to be designed with that tactic in mind (or else hidding behind the doorway and dropping explosives down).


Still, with timing I would think it would still be possible to counter this tactic, simply because two of the offensive classes have Speed+Jump and several have absorb/protect. If they can enter the room, they can find an opening to lower the elevator, then all it takes is one force Jump to get on.

Having TD's on the offensive side would definately help them, but the question is, would it unbalance the other parts of the map?

Chuahtemoc
11-26-2003, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by Kurgan
I've known about the possbility of long range push tactics for awhile, but I'm surprised more teams don't use them when I play (ah well).

yeah, i've noticed that sometimes, from like 30 feet away, if my opponent is in the air i can push him and he'll go over whatever ledge or canyon i wanted him to. however, if we're both on the ground and like 5 feet from eachother, if i don't catch him completely off guard, i can't moe him an inch, even withlevel 3. weird, huh? hmmm

i think it has to do with the guy being in the air.

Master William
11-26-2003, 11:57 AM
The Staff butterfly is very easy to counter. Just do the crouch + forward + attack button, (when the saber starts to spin fast), I always do that, and I counter every little butterfly move.

So basically, people are just wanting things to be ''fixed'' just because they haven't learned to counter it yet.

Lathain Valtiel
11-26-2003, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by Master William
The Staff butterfly is very easy to counter. Just do the crouch + forward + attack button, (when the saber starts to spin fast), I always do that, and I counter every little butterfly move.

So basically, people are just wanting things to be ''fixed'' just because they haven't learned to counter it yet.

I SAID that already. However, I'm disturbed by the fact that you can directly hit the target and sometimes it will do no damage in a flash of sparks. That's a little crazy and random for me. You're just lucky.

Vile
11-26-2003, 02:02 PM
I too have had that rolling problem, I know it is just run and press duck....but at times it WILL not work, I have no idea why?

Agen
11-26-2003, 05:38 PM
I was messing up roll constantly once I got the patch (mind you I had a break from JA too :p) and I had that problem for a few hours but after playing quite a bit, it's fine once again... Just practice the timing and it will all come together :p
(Maybe there is a bug but I've never experienced it :p)

However, I'm disturbed by the fact that you can directly hit the target and sometimes it will do no damage in a flash of sparks. That's a little crazy and random for me. You're just lucky.
Never happens for me... work perfectly and i'm pretty sure i'm not lucky everytime :/

I was thinking of a thing that could fix the yawspeed prob (keep in mind i'm a complete noob at editing etc.) but couldn't there be a server mod(or similar) that lets the server use a code so that people who have there yawspeed higher than a certain value are not able to connect????

DrakkenVII
11-26-2003, 05:50 PM
I'm more concerned about the glitches in saber that let u turn off and on your other saber doing specials moves and in turn increase your damage. Like the lunge wit the twin sabers.

There are other things wrong with it as far as glitches lucas got VERY lazy with this game.