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View Full Version : What can I do to improve pcgamemods?


Axalon
11-27-2003, 03:47 PM
Hey guys, Sergio from pcgamemods here.

I haven't exactly been to current with my own site lately but it seems that some problems are arising. I really don't know how popular pcgamemods is in comparison to other sites, and to be honest I don't really care. Pcgamemods's purpose is to simply serve the community, generating pageviews isn't a priority to me.

However I have been reading some comments about pcgamemods, and I would really like to know what I can do to improve upon it. I think a lot of people, including myself, enjoy the instant upload system but I know there are flaws with it.

So if you could please be as detailed as possible with your improvement suggestions I would greatly appreciate it. Please, constructive criticism only, I am open to the flaws on my site but be courteous about it.

SpecialForces
11-27-2003, 04:10 PM
I like gamemods, the only problem I see with it is jk2.com and jediknightii.net seem to have more files, forums and screenshots...
But as far as the file download speed ect. I think its great

Prime
11-27-2003, 04:36 PM
Actually, your site is one of my favorites, and I probably frequent it more than others. I like the layout, as things are easy to find, and I like having the rating score right there. I would suspect that it is one of the most popular sites, as I often see it mentioned when people ask where they can download things. I know I always recommend it :)

Probably the only complaint I have is that recently the majority of mods don't have screenshots. This makes it very hard to decide if I actually want to download something, and more often than not I won't. This is compounded by descriptions that are often lacking. IIRC there are some mods with descriptions like, "This is my first skin so be nice plz download".

Perhaps you could require a screenshot to submit a mod. Also, it may be handy to have a comments template that people can fill out so that there is enough useful information.

Other than that, it is a great site. :)

mknote
11-27-2003, 04:48 PM
In my personal opinion, you should ban ALL JA admin mods that come your way. Be a b!!!! if you must.

MK

razorace
11-27-2003, 04:53 PM
1. Allow users to sort the current listing by Name, Author, Section, Version, Rank.

2. Make the screenshot submission process easier. Maybe automate the thumbnail process?

3. Move the Player Skins and Weapons sections of JKA to the Models section.

Also, I've had issues with the java uploading client. It often hangs when I'm trying to load it up. I'm not sure if it's a problem with my system or something common.

Darth Kaan
11-27-2003, 05:03 PM
Since you asked Sergio, I will give my sincere input. There are two main problems:

1. Just playing devils advocate here... Eldritch has a pompous attitude at times which his posts and demeanor reflect. Since he is an admin, it sets a very poor example. So when he corrects others for any reason, some of them are provoked by it. Danny J or yourself never act that way, why do you allow him too?

2. The automatic upload system is very convenient, but a catch 22. Mods of any content can be uploaded without being screened. I think you have seen the problems that can cause albeit, not very often.

While I agree that screenshots should be included with any mod, that is my opinion, other authors may feel differently. But, I know from personel experience that the feature for adding them on your site does not work all the time. Iíve also read dozens of posts where authors could not get them to upload, it's not that they don't try or don't want to add them.

However, it's a very nice site and service to the community where players have easy access to download mods and authors can easily upload their work for others to enjoy. The design is straightforward and easy to navigate.

razorace
11-27-2003, 05:13 PM
I disagree on your first point. I think Eldritch has been justified in all the actions I've seen.

ChangKhan[RAVEN]
11-27-2003, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by Axalon
...I would really like to know what I can do to improve upon it...

Nice of you to ask! The only problem I've been having is that some of the files are incomplete (bad .zip files)... I wanted to download all the vehicle models that were made for Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy, but most of the files were just file fragments... :/ Maybe if you just had it, somehow, at least check the .zip to make sure it was a valid .zip file after upload?

Also, being able to sort the files by name, date, rating, etc. would be cool.

Otherwise, excellent site, lots of content I couldn't find elsewhere!

Darth Kaan
11-27-2003, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by razorace
I disagree on your first point. I think Eldritch has been justified in all the actions I've seen.

That's cool and I respect your opinion Razorace. The point was not if he is justified or not, it's his method. Personelly I could care less what he does or how he does it. Some on the other hand apparently do. To bad it has to be that way.

GothiX
11-27-2003, 05:32 PM
I also disagree with Darth Kaan at his first point, I think Eldritch just is honest, and straight to the point. Even when he was that way to me, at first I felt kind of insulted, but yeah, I eventually figured he was right nontheless.

And indeed, I'd love to see a better system for uploading screenshots, combined with a rule that states that screenshots are a must.

kmd
11-27-2003, 10:38 PM
only thing i say update is, screenshots, have the mods give screen shots, that is a main factor of will i or wont i dl it

Kengo
11-27-2003, 11:58 PM
Demanding a semi-decent description might be worthwhile too, some of them are so lazy its hard to believe. If the descriptions are utterly useless, perhaps moderators could be given the option to replace them with a classic joke of some kind? :) For example...

Watson and Holmes are camping out on a hillside, as part of an elaborate scheme to catch a dangerous villain.

Watson: You ever look up at the wonder, the glory of the stars and wonder what it all means? I mean, in the sheer vastness and beauty of the Universe, of eternity which I can look up at right now, here we are. What does it all mean eh Holmes?
Holmes: It means Watson that someone has stollen the bloody tent!

When I said 'classic' jokes I meant they were like classic cars - really old :)

razorace
11-28-2003, 12:50 AM
I just had another idea. I suggest you set up an option to only see mods that have been reviewed by staff members. That way you have maintain the quick post times AND allow a some real degree of quality control.

Darth Kaan
11-28-2003, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by razorace
I just had another idea. I suggest you set up an option to only see mods that have been reviewed by staff members. That way you have maintain the quick post times AND allow a some real degree of quality control.

Thats the best idea I have heard yet. :D

DarkLord60
11-28-2003, 01:16 AM
I like how PCGAMEMODS.com is set up its easy to get around. The staff are all nice. When I've had problems with people stealing our work, Form AOTCTC, and posting it at other sites such as PCgamemods.com I simply asked them to remove the content and I get no complaints. Eldritch is a very honest person and tells whatís on his mind that is what we need in modding and gaming site community. So if you need any suggestions I can't really offer any, other than please encourage ppl to post screenshots of their downloads.

Kurgan
11-28-2003, 02:33 AM
Okay, let me say I'm NOT a member of pcgamemods, so if I get any of these facts wrong, please correct me.

I hope this is constructive:

Suggestions (this is the biggest one):

Screen the files you get sent.

What I mean by this is that each file should be tested, to make sure it works. This can also allow for the taking of screenshots to post.

Rather than let members post whatever files they want and try to moderate them after the fact, do this and it will save on corrupted or duplicate files (or the "makes a new version every 5 minutes"-syndrome). It will also save you having to take down files that are illegitimate.

It will even save on server load because you won't have to have tons of files being uploaded at once (since you can have people just send you links to grab the files rather than submitting each one directly to the site server).

----------------------------------------

Require screenshots and full descriptions.

Exerpts from the readme (full or close to full) and at least one screenshot (not just a logo or something silly, but an actual pic of the map, or skin in question, properly light balanced so you can actually tell what it is).

If people can't be bothered to include screenshots or descriptions you can reject the files. If they simply forget to take a good shot your testers can take them.

But the main thing this would do is to stop the constant "dart mall. tis iz mah 1st skin so be kind kthx bye" descriptions.

----------------------------------------

You can make your requirments more stringent (see Lucasfiles.com) or moderately strict (see massassi.net) but those are probably the bare minimum you want to go with (see my comments above).

The layout for sites like JK2files.com are rather messy and painful to navigate through, despite the great number of files they have, so I wouldn't suggest copying them (unless you really really want to I suppose). Having file mirrors is nice, but constant redirects, popups and ads everywhere just gets annoying.

While I work for LucasFiles (we have our own system, that isn't perfect either, but we're trying), I suggest looking to Massassi.net for ideas. They aren't that big in JA yet, but they seem to have had success with their system in the past.

The fact is, now that the SDK is out, the desire for "quantity" of mods for JA is going to shift radically in a short time towards quality and thus you should be more discriminating as to what you post. That's not to say you should crush wannabe mod makers, but rather offer them advice. If their mod doesn't meet certain minimum standards of quality and usability, at least you can show them what they need to improve upon and send them back to the lab to get it right.

You don't have to post reviews (that takes even more time) like jk2files or Admiral's Command Chamber at Massassi.net does, but that is another nice idea. ; )

The more info a person can get about a mod before they download it the better. There are just too many mods out there to justify downloading every single one of them. Or if you're like me you download a mod that sounds cool and forget to try it out. Weeks or months later you see it on your hard drive and go "hmmm... now why did I get this again and what is it?"

At least if there's a bit of information a person can look up (and not just a big number and one sentence) they can make a better decision and it even helps to promote good mod making.

razorace
11-28-2003, 02:56 AM
I'm going to disagree on Kurgan on this.

DO NOT PRESCREEN FILES.

All, and I mean all the other file servers are having huge backlog problems because of this "screening" and we still aren't seeing any of the filtering out of crappy/stolen material.

Heck, lucasfiles and massassi just copies your description word for word if they post it. That's not a problem if they post in a timely manner but they more often than not don't post quickly.

I also have another suggestion. If people are really compliaining about crappy/stolen mods, just put in a ratings filter for the menus. That way, if the admins don't get to it first, users can rate the mod very poorly and then filter it out of the menus.

GothiX
11-28-2003, 06:37 AM
Yeah, but screenshots aren't always possible, for example, there are still soundmods.

Kurgan
11-28-2003, 09:57 AM
Respectfully disagree RA of course. ; )

Yeah, backlogs suck, but what other solution is there? Post everything and then try to sort out the mess later. It's still going to be a lot of work, and stuff will slip through the cracks.

Ah well, there you've got two different ways to go about it.


gothicx, good point, but in those cases, they could post "sample" sound files you could listen to, like Wes Janson did for his Kel Dor/Zabrak voice enhancement pack.

And that's still a small minority of mods, but good idea.

Kengo
11-28-2003, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
Yeah, backlogs suck, but what other solution is there? Post everything and then try to sort out the mess later. It's still going to be a lot of work, and stuff will slip through the cracks.

Ah well, there you've got two different ways to go about it.


It seems to me there are two seperate schools of thought to go down. Giving editors quick uploading and opening up for some abuse of the system, or having the longer process of verification which can mean a long delay in file posting. I'd say its a matter of preference which the heads of sites go for. Personally I like the mix of both in the community, without any sites with PCGMs cool upload system, editors in the past had to wait an awful long time to see their file anywhere sometimes (sometimes it was mega speedy, Massassi posted one of my levels up about an hour after I sent it in once, that was amazingly cool :)).

One thing I'd love to see on all the sites is the upload part of the system, just as a method to send the files in for verification. Fileplanet has one too. It's just incredibly hard to get large files emailed in for many people, and some sites seem less than happy to put up files that you send them a link too. I believe such a system is planned at Massassi at the least?

That sound sample idea is cool. Immensely open for abuse too with the current system I'd say :(

The way PCGM seems to be used as some kind of distribution network for clan skins for other members of the clan (you'll get like 30 or 40 downloads, sometimes more votes than downloads) is a real pain for everyone, and of course if these are all deleted then its time for major complaints and possibly action against the site. Maybe some kind of clan stuff side server, so if a clan wants to use PCGM to distribute the file to their own guys with other people just a bonus, they can upload it there. If a clan skin/map was found in the main section it could just get moved to the clan files section. I'm not saying all clan stuff is low quality (I remember some rather fine XG and TMBJ maps for example :)) but a lot of them are really basic and clearly intended for a very select audience. I'm damn sure someone suggested this idea to me a while ago, though I'm not compeletely sure who...

EDIT: Oh Kurgan, was gonna congratulate you on reaching 10,000 posts but you kinda raced past it before I noticed. Congrats a little late! :D

WhiteShdw
11-28-2003, 02:20 PM
Also, it may be handy to have a comments template that people can fill out so that there is enough useful information.

I like this idea. Having a template might make some mod makers think about their mod more objectively. Hopefully this will also filter out some of the crap that's being posted. And some properly formatted info is always appreciated.

Also I'd like to see a disclaimer stating your file posting rules(no pornographic materials, no stolen files etc..) before you post something. That way people who post files that break these rules will have no excuse for posting these files, because they were made aware of these rules beforehand.

I like the way you created the picture submission system. After reading through the FAQ I was able to do it, but I can understand some people have trouble with it. I would say, change the method for file uploading or tweak the FAQ some more. And make at least one screenshot for certain catagories(maps, skins, models) mandatory.

|GG|Carl
11-28-2003, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by Prime
Probably the only complaint I have is that recently the majority of mods don't have screenshots. This makes it very hard to decide if I actually want to download something, and more often than not I won't. This is compounded by descriptions that are often lacking. IIRC there are some mods with descriptions like, "This is my first skin so be nice plz download".
This is very true, it took me pretty long time to figure out how to submit screenshots to pcgamemods, an even when you know how t do it, it's kinda frustrating. Especially if you have very many screenshots.
I don't like "Easy thumbnails" very much, it's to "complicated" and slow.

But anyway, I gotta say that pcgmemods is my favorite JA d/l site.
I love that you don't have to wait like 30 days until your file gets posted, here it just takes like 30 seconds.
:sbdance

Axalon
11-28-2003, 03:18 PM
Ok I've read through some of the suggestions so I will now post a rebuttle of sorts to them.

Screening Files
Yes, I understand that screening files makes for better content. That's what I did for a better part of a year with JO, I'd like to think of myself as a veteran of the file community with over 14,000 screenshots to my name. I used to take screenshots manually for everybody, and let me tell you that takes up a lot of time, resulting in delays of uploads. In fact it could generate the almighty backlog which I know modders hate. They simply want their files up as soon as possible, they don't want to wait for it especially if they can set it up themselves (see Simple Solution below).The full description goes a long way too, a lot of these mods being made are by people who make them rather quickly so they really don't care about the description, sad but true. Requiring a full description would just add lots of fluff to the descriptions themselves. Someone who has nothing to say would simply right something like. "Plz download my mod. Um it took me a while to make, I used Radiant to make this. Thanks mom you are awesome!" etc

New Screenshot System
The easy thumbnails method was the easiest AND cheapest (that being free) method for batch processing of files. I'm sorry that the java client doesn't work for some of you, but there isn't much I can do towards that since it has worked one every computer I have tried out. It is because of this 'partially' working screenshot system that I don't make uploading screenshots mandatory. I may fix this method, during Christmas break as I will have some time to do so. However, I will make an icon to put on the list of files which will indicate whether or not the given mod has screenshots included, I can even make it so the registered users can sort only through files with screenshots.


Sorting
This was something that I meant to do but never actually got around to it, I think I will do it when I get back to school since all my files are on my server there. It should only take 15 minutes to implement so expect this feature added soon.

The moderators/deleting files
This mainly goes towards Eldritch since some people don't agree with his screening methods. I spoke to Eldritch on the phone as to clear up any confusion that may have been created over this whole screening process. Basically Eldritch screened files with either questionable content, or stolen content. If you stole somebody's mod or put your name on their mod to make it your own, it was deleted and I fully back him up on that decision. Questionable content however doesn't fair so well. For instance, if there was a marijuana leaf on a skin or a completely named skin of Tavion or Jan, it was deleted for the simple fact that not everybody who goes to pcgamemods is over 18. We don't exactly want to be peddling this sort of content. Now I really never had a problem with it but Eldritch deleted it because he thought it may be inappropriate for some viewers. I do agree with him on that, but I will be posting a poll this week to find out what the community actually wants of 'questionable content'. I honestly appreciate the work that Eldritch and Madeline do, (Madeline handles the UT 2003 section, and does JA work too). Since I know that Eldritch puts in an hour of work a day simply sorting through the files and trying to make pcgamemods's JA section a clean place, I think a lot of modders who have had their content deleted should think about why it was deleted. Yes it is wrong to simply have the files deleted but I will put up a system that when your file does get deleted, you will get a message and the reason why it was, from there you can contact the moderator and speak to him/her about your mod.

A simple solution
At the beginning of pcgm 2 I had a verification system installed. I took it down since there wasn't a lot of questionable or stolen content to sift through. Now that the community is outlashing towards a lot of the things placed on the site I will put it back up.

For those of you who never saw that system, basically the user can upload whatever he wants. When he does the file is declared unverified. When a moderator downloads the file and verifies its content he sets the status to verified meaning that it is what the author says it is. From this, we can allow registered users to basically select that they only want to see verified files this way they don't have to deal with any other files.

I know there are other sites to get your JA files at, and honestly that's fine. Different sites support different communities of modders. I was actually thinking of at the beginning of pcgm 2 to make the site sort of elitest. I guess you could say it would be a MIT of mod sites. Only the best mods get in sort of scenario. That of course would leave out the budding modders, but would allow the community to always download the best of the best. It's still a decision I have yet to deal with. I may just split the site into two for that..it's just an idea though so don't worry about it. Anyway I hope I have covered most of what you guys have said, if you have anything else to say about the site and things to improve upon it with please continue to say it.

ChangKhan[RAVEN]
11-28-2003, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by Axalon
Ok I've read through some of the suggestions so I will now post a rebuttle of sorts to them.

Screening Files
Yes, I understand that screening files makes for better content. <snip>

How about just making sure the .zip file is valid? That shouldn't be too hard. Just have the upload program verify the .zip is a valid .zip and, if not, delete it.

The Count
11-28-2003, 04:57 PM
PCGameMods has alot of adverts aswell; they are really annoying please limit them.

|GG|Carl
11-28-2003, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by The Count
PCGameMods has alot of adverts aswell; they are really annoying please limit them.
But if you become member, at least the pop-ups will disappear.

Axalon
11-28-2003, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN]
How about just making sure the .zip file is valid? That shouldn't be too hard. Just have the upload program verify the .zip is a valid .zip and, if not, delete it.

Hey Change, good to see your opinion on this, I didn't make the java program, and I can't modify it without paying about $400 for it, and it's not possible to verify zip files in php.

Count - Carl is right, popups are the only way to make money to pay for the bandwidth, if you are a member however they are virtually eliminated.

Greymon
11-28-2003, 08:01 PM
Most of what I would suggest has been covered already (sorting, letting us know about screenshots, etc), but I'd like the ability to read the readme before downloading. Could that be added somehow? It might solve other problems, such as people posting comments about whether or not botroutes are present on JA maps.

One other thing, that others may strongly disagree with, but I think modders should not be allowed to vote on mods they submit. I've seen utter crap thats started with high scores because the modder and two friends gave it 10s. With so few people voting, its hard to get accurate rankings when the modder automatically gives himself a 10.

razorace
11-28-2003, 08:34 PM
Agreed. I never vote on my own mods.

Prime
11-29-2003, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by razorace
Agreed. I never vote on my own mods. Exactly. Especially in the early stages, it skews the scores too much.

And I don't mind a few pop-ups for a free site that gives great content....

Darth Kaan
11-29-2003, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by Prime
Exactly. Especially in the early stages, it skews the scores too much.

And I don't mind a few pop-ups for a free site that gives great content....

I second that!

Agen
11-29-2003, 06:16 PM
Some people still don't have pop-up blockers? :p GET ONE
I don't mind 'that much' about some things having a lack of screenies since i usually only download things which get a good rep or I need it to get on a server. Still, if i was running a server, I'd probably like to be able to see the maps.

Kengo
11-29-2003, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by Greymon
One other thing, that others may strongly disagree with, but I think modders should not be allowed to vote on mods they submit. I've seen utter crap thats started with high scores because the modder and two friends gave it 10s. With so few people voting, its hard to get accurate rankings when the modder automatically gives himself a 10.

Yeh, that is a really good idea.

There has definately been some deliberately low scoring of files too, but it would surely take an enormous amount of time and effort to monitor for people who always score files as 0 or such.

KaiaSowapit
11-29-2003, 10:09 PM
Sorry if this is an unpopular answer, but frankly I much preferred the old format for the website. It seemed less cluttered and easier to navigate. I also greatly appreciated being able to list maps by rating, author, etc..
Originally posted by Darth Kaan
Eldritch has a pompous attitude at times which his posts and demeanor reflect. Since he is an admin, it sets a very poor example.
I couldn't agree more. I've lost count how many times I've bit my tongue rather than criticize Eldritch for his attitude. Case in point was that "Trade Federation Droid Control Ship" map by Breath. Now I don't know Breath personally, but I thought Eldritch's comments regarding his map were ridiculously arrogant and hypercritical, especially given his own, dare I say it, mediocre contributions.

I also agree with several of the other posters, screenshots (where appropriate) should be a must have. Indeed, for me, it was one of the original selling points of pcgamemods - I could take a good look at a map before committing it to download. Also, especially for items that aren't applicable for screenshots, an extensive readme/description would be nice.

Lastly, the distinction between the various categories such as "mod" or "skin" could stand to be a little more rigorous. Too often I'll glance by category and find things completely out of place (or simply missing that IMHO should be there).

All said, I greatly appreciate your site Sergio! Please don't mistake these minor criticisms as anything but suggestions from an ardent fan. Thanks for the valuable service you afford us!

shukrallah
11-29-2003, 10:10 PM
0 shouldnt be on the scale... if you did some work to contribute to the community, no matter what it is, it at least deserves a "1" for effort...

Axalon
11-29-2003, 11:08 PM
Kaia thanks for your input, I'm glad you were honest. Couple things about what you said. First off, I'm sorry you don't like the old site, with the given space allowed the old site was simply not optimized for the type of data driven site that pcgamemods is so on that arguement I can't really offer a solution aside from deal with it, sorry if that sounds rash. The listing by rating and such will be rectified so no need to talk about that further. As for Eldritch, the deleting of files is being worked out right now, so unless you put something up that is really offensive or doesn't directly offend someone then it won't get deleted. But for Eldritch's opinions in the comments, it's something I can't control just as I can't control what others say. It's his opinion and he's allowed to feel that way if he wants, if you honestly have a problem with the way he says things, you can email him about it (his email will be up tomorrow (monday)). For the screenshots, yes I understand that there are less screenshots than before, but the trade off is that modders can release their maps quicker. As you can see we get several files a day and I simply (as I have said before) don't have the time to take screenshots for all of them as I did before.

I would however like to make a point
I used to do all the screenshots before for everybody's mod, so everytime someone would submit something to pcgamemods, it was a guarantee that you would get screenshots of your mod before it went up. I didn't have time to do the shots, so I instilled this system of allowing the authors to submit their own screenshots. People have commented on saying that EasyThumbnail is a pain to use. Well guess what, I had to take over 14,000 for all of you, EasyThumbnail is free so people won't have to pay for software to batch process their screenshots. I used the EasyThumbnail system and it really isn't that bad, heck I think only 10% of the people who use it actually use it correctly by reading the instructions which aren't to hard to comprehend. It got to the point where I went out and purchased batch processing software specifically for the site, but I know that people aren't going to pay for something they will only use a couple of times so EeasyThumbnail it was. What really angers me however is the fact that people tell us that we should put screenshots up for the mods. Hypothetically, if the upload system for the screenshots works for the author why don't the authors do it themselves? They know where all the good parts of their map/mod are and what does that say about the author who can't take 5-10 minutes to put up screenshots of his own mod? Is it even worth downloading if the author doesn't have enough pride in his work to take some screenshots? I'm sorry but I did screenshots day in and day out, it was a fairly arduous task involving little or no thought, just plain grunt work. But regardless of the amount of effort I put in, other sites were still getting more mod submissions, and maybe it was because I couldn't keep up with other sites having 10 or more people on staff, but I wanted to keep the quality of the site up. Can you believe that I actually had people complain about the shots I took for them. Such complaints would include "you didn't take a shot of this part of the map". Hey if I suck at taking shots of your map, take them yourself, and that's exactly what I did. Now we get people submitting things who don't even put in the effort to taking screenshots of their own work, so what exactly am I going to do?

The simple solution I think is to just have an icon on the listings as to whether or not the mod has screenshots included, if not your mod won't 'sell' as well simply because people don't want to waste time downloading something and having it turn out to be utter crap.

Here's another thing, people who get their friends to rate their mod high scores will have their rating priveleges revoked, I'm sick of seeing clan skins that are worthy of 3 values showing up as 10.

Last but not least are those who spam the download system. This is something I am not going to take. I know who you are because I log every download, and you will be banned. It's usually the author who is doing it too. If you are the author doing this, you are going to get banned, and your files will be deleted from the site. I have a certain amount of sympathy towards those who do this simply because they know their mod is that bad that they need to spam the download script for it to get attention.

And yes I agree, I am going to take 0 out for the rankings.

Xemoka
11-29-2003, 11:18 PM
Hello there, i vist your site at least once a day, and i love it, there are only a few things i'd like to see, and a few ideas i have.

-- Allow comments on the page that the mod/map/skin/model is on, for example when i click to go view an info page at the bottem it allows me to post a comment on that mod.

-- A way to not force people to use the thumbnail maker is allow text links to the larger image instead and along with a thumbnail. Plus allow a description for a screenshot

-- Allow for user submited screenshots, i know this sounds like a bit of filespace but how often have you come across a mod noticed it didn't have shots, liked it after downloading it and figured you could have taken shots for it?

Just my 2 cents (1.5 american)

Kengo
11-30-2003, 12:57 AM
Originally posted by KaiaSowapit
I've lost count how many times I've bit my tongue rather than criticize Eldritch for his attitude. Case in point was that "Trade Federation Droid Control Ship" map by Breath. Now I don't know Breath personally, but I thought Eldritch's comments regarding his map were ridiculously arrogant and hypercritical, especially given his own, dare I say it, mediocre contributions.


Obviously as Eldritch is my friend I'd want to defend him but I'm not going to get into a flame war about it. I just want to say that when he comments on stuff (in Map-Review reviews as well as forums etc) he is putting his critical opinion. That means he is saying what he feels is good and bad about a map from both a gaming and technical standpoint. I don't think anyone could accuse him of being anything less than accomplished as a map editor, and as such his technical opinions come from a position of knowledge. His gaming opinions are as valid as anyone else who plays JO/JA a bit. Some of what he says will be fact (eg "this map has no skybox") but just because the opinion parts contradict what some authors or others feel about a map shouldn't be regarded as hypercritical, nor arrogant.

Its not a case of only someone who could do much better can comment on a map anyway, in that case we'd have to have LDJ or someone doing all the commenting? Personally, I can really see that cutting into LDJs famously high map output levels. :) IMHO Eldritch is one of the best editors in the community but at the very least no one can deny he is a knowlegable mapper, and as such his comments carry rather a lot of weight in a community where anyone, map editor or not, gets to place comment.

It also has to be said that being a file moderator can be a thankless task, even if 99% of the community believes you were right to remove a certain file say one with stollen content, that won't stop a few people sending you hate mail, viruses and even worse for it.

Finally, as someone who is fortunate enough to know him, I'd say Eldritch is most certainly neither arrogant nor a hypercrite. He does what he thinks is right even if he gets stick from certain people for it, some which has been very abusive. He has put in a load of work at PCGM despite having a high workload outside and I think he deserves an awful lot of credit for that. You got a right to your personal opinion on him of course but some criticisms of him just aren't accurate, and some (not yours I might add) have come soley from grudges borne of his deletion of some files which I think almost everyone would agree really did deserve it.

Mike Windu
11-30-2003, 10:16 PM
Sergio I think your site is great, but some things I dont like:

The screenshots: I agree with you that everyone should send in their own screenshots. Anything that doesn't have screenshot, should either be put into a new section, NO SCREENSHOTS section. That way, we can filter out anything not worthwhile, because MOST things that dont have screenshots, are not worthwhile.

Another thing I see happening is that an author sends in a file then sends in versions 2,3,4,5, and 6, 10 minutes after. And an overflow of clan skins and junk that just clutters it up and makes it harder to get to the good stuff ;). I'm not saying some clan skins arent good, but there's just too many of them, maybe you could filter them into a clan skin section, because if you aren't part of the clan it's useless to you...

Other than those two points I think your site is one of the best around. Perhaps you could send out applications once again for admins @ pcgamemods... we could use some more to help with these problems. Or maybe you could start having admins review files and such ;). Just my 2 cents.

razorace
12-01-2003, 02:26 AM
That's an interesting issue. Maybe set things up so that the newer versions of a file can replace the old listing?

razorace
12-01-2003, 02:26 AM
That's an interesting issue. Maybe set things up so that the newer versions of a file can replace the old listing? Or maybe group all the versions onto one page?

Axalon
12-01-2003, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by razorace
That's an interesting issue. Maybe set things up so that the newer versions of a file can replace the old listing? Or maybe group all the versions onto one page?

I could setup a section to do that, but people are having trouble enough with the screenshots I don't think having a version tracker would work out to well, nor would a lot of people use it.

razorace
12-01-2003, 05:48 PM
Well, I would use it. :D

Axalon
12-01-2003, 09:35 PM
True but, not everybody is like you razorace, I'm assuming you would put up screenshots too?

ChangKhan[RAVEN]
12-02-2003, 04:35 AM
Another issue on pcgamemods.com that I just noticed. I tried to post a comment and it ignored it. I think maybe there is a limit to the number of comments or the size of all the comments put together? Anyway, I tried to comment on the melee mod file earlier today and the comment never appeared.

Axalon
12-02-2003, 04:41 AM
Chang, can you PM me some way I can contact you via instant messanger so I can work out this problem?

razorace
12-02-2003, 05:21 AM
That's right....lull the Raven employee into a false sense of security and then spring the trap. :D

Of course, I'm one to talk. I've spammed James on occasion to figure some stuff out. :D

Mike Windu
12-08-2003, 02:04 AM
lol heres a likely scenario:

chang give me your email so we can sort out this problem

email: to chang@ravenraven.com

Now i've been ahving some problems. I've asked you guys to let me join raven but u never answer why?

:D

jk jk

tbh razorace setting up the system to overwrite old versions would be kinda hard, and adding tons of pages more isnt going to help the problem ;)

i say we go back to the old way of listing the newest 10 :D that i loved

razorace
12-08-2003, 02:27 AM
Originally posted by Mike Windu
tbh razorace setting up the system to overwrite old versions would be kinda hard, and adding tons of pages more isnt going to help the problem ;)

It shouldn't be that hard and I'm not sure how it would add more pages since it would combine all the different versions into a single page.

i say we go back to the old way of listing the newest 10 :D that i loved [/B]

How about...NO!! That system for lucasfiles.com is just terrible, you often miss things since everything tends to be posted in bursts.

Mike Windu
12-08-2003, 02:52 AM
well having a big ass list isnt that much better, too MUCH overload you know

what i thought u meant by combining things was to put all versions into one page, which would mean another section or something like that which is why i was disagreeing:p

razorace
12-08-2003, 03:26 AM
Originally posted by Mike Windu
well having a big ass list isnt that much better, too MUCH overload you know

That's why there's are two tables for the 10 lastest staff picks and top 10 active mods.

what i thought u meant by combining things was to put all versions into one page, which would mean another section or something like that which is why i was disagreeing:p

It wouldn't be a seperate section, it would just store all the different versions of a file on the same page.

Akshara
12-08-2003, 06:43 PM
Sergio, your site is great. I usually go there first when looking for a file, and if I have trouble finding it will go to the other sites. My suggestions to improve the site...

1. Ability to organize lists by downloads, ranking, author, etc.
2. Actual Staff ranking as well as Staff Picks, with the ranking added to the master list
3. Descriptions by author's require a minimum word length.
4. A "Staff Picks" list of the top authors

I tend to download a file from an unknown author based on it's description, the screenshots, the site's ranking (if there is one), and the number of times it's been downloaded. Though I love pcgamemods, it's difficult to decide on whether or not to try a file based on those criteria. If it's in the Staff Picks list it gets downloaded for sure... other than that, it's sort of a crap shoot. While I understand not requiring a screenshot, having authors submit a description with say 50 words minimum might help us get some clearer descriptions.

Thank You for offering this site to the community.

razorace
12-08-2003, 11:56 PM
A minimum description length is only going to cause problems. People can't even do proper descriptions with a 0 word minimum. Knowing the way people are, they'd just fill up the rest with just crap.

Mike Windu
12-09-2003, 01:23 AM
or if they were smart, they'd copy and paste the readme ;). I still say we should have more pcgm people I have lots of free time to review files ;) and post screenies double ;)

razorace
12-09-2003, 02:33 AM
they'd copy and paste the readme .

...which they were too lazy to do....

Mike Windu
12-10-2003, 12:12 AM
which is why we need admins that review files and take screenies :D that'd be good

cey
12-13-2003, 02:28 PM
I love Pcgamemods.com, but i got some problems lately....

When I visit the homepage, I cant go to jedi academy or any other section... my computer says that the internet pages dont excist:(


Anyone know whats wrong?:(

JoeSolo
12-13-2003, 08:11 PM
Well pcgamemods doesn't really need any improving it just needs more people to visit it and download stuff from it. I think everyone goes to jk3files cos its top of the search engine listing?

Mike Windu
12-13-2003, 10:29 PM
pcgamemods does need improving if it wants to have as much interaction as jk2files... the site needs more policing it just looks like the people at jk3 files are more mature...

Mike Windu
12-13-2003, 10:29 PM
pcgamemods does need improving if it wants to have as much interaction as jk2files... the site needs more policing it just looks like the people at jk3 files are more mature...

Axalon
12-13-2003, 11:38 PM
pcgamemods and jk3files are two completely different sites with different layouts and amount of on hand staff. We attract different types of people too. Comparing the two would be like comparing Windows to Linux, both do the same thing but in different fashions. I have no doubt that jk3files gets more downloads than pcgamemods and in saying that I can also say that it doesn't really bother me since it's not what I am aiming for.

I will be doing the necessary modifications to the site as promised sometime this week.

Zappa_0
12-14-2003, 01:15 PM
Here's an idea, get rid of the power hungry deleting file managers and get people that you know that wont be that way. Also in the submitting file, why not just add the add screenshot there so we can go ahead and add the pictures we want then? One more thing, in the JA section add a Vehicle section and possible weapon section.

Admiral Chemix
12-14-2003, 04:24 PM
I'm sorry to say this but it seems whenever you get a big suggestion you give an excuse. A mod site shouldn't be for just a certain type of people it should be for the whole community. As for the whole screening dispute, just get reveiwers, after the mod is posted a reviewer can get to it, reveiw it, put up screenshots, all while the file is up. Put the authors description below the reveiwers description. And if it hasn't been reveiwed yet then people can just look at the authors description. Make a 10 word minimum on the author descriptions.

Reveiw system Proposal:
Modder posts file
File Goes Up for public download
Reveiwer takes a look at file
Posts screenshots if there aren't any premade ones
Posts 100 word minimum reveiw of file

This way people can get a second opinion on a mod. Besides not everybody can figure out the screenshot system, and some (IE ME) do not have cable/dsl modems, so uploading the file hurts connection speed enough, do they realy need to be forced to upload a few megs of screenshots too?

Make a menu on the right hand side of files recently posted
Give search engines more specific abilities like date, name, version, author, clan tag(for those looking for skins made by fellow clan members)
Make a forum with IB Board software(best free one available)
Put a donation link so people can donate money to the site makers to better the sites functions
Add more graphix to the interface as no graphix gets quite boring
Add a row in the file listing to indicate reveiwed and not reveiwed
Add smileys to the comment system
Put comments on the same page as the mod
Once you get 400 dollars in donations FIX THE DANG SCREENSHOTS SYTEM

I hope you take these ideas into deep consideration and don't just blow them off because they seem too hard too acomplish

Axalon
12-14-2003, 05:56 PM
Admiral you obviously haven't been following the site very much/at all. First of all you don't have to upload screenshots to submit a file, and I never said I was going to make it a requisite. Second, did you not notice the forums that have been up since last year on the site? Why would I need IB Board and nobody really uses the board anyway people who go to lucasforums.com don't want to double register so they can post something on a board that only 1000 people are registered to. Then you said the reviewers who review the finals, let me tell you something and I know I am going to insult some people, people aren't very compitent - in getting lots of reviewers I would eventually lose my track of them and then if someone had a problem with one of them I wouldn't really know that reviewer that well would I? I made a staff submission page before for if you wanted to be a staff member. 10% of the people actually wrote completely sentences that made sense aren't were dribble of "oh please please um I worked on a clan site and I like mods!!!" if you doubt me on that one I will show you the submissions that were sent in. I'm sorry but I like the staff members to be experienced modders who know what they are doing. I asked most of the ones I know and most of them had other agendas or simply could not allocate the time to dedicate to the site and I will simply not employ people who don't know what they are doing. I make excuses for the suggestions people give...well sorry but I see it differently, I don't care about catering to everybody and at one point I really wanted to make the site for the best of the best, to make it so that only 8-10 rated mods were hosted. I know it sounds elitest, arrogant and cocky but if you think about it wouldn't you go to a site in which you knew all the files there were being hosted were files that you knew you wanted to download? You wouldn't have to wad through clan skins and bad maps (yes I understand that not everybody starts out great and they need practice). But I don't think I will do that, at least not yet. More graphics - that I will simply object to, the site isn't there to be pretty, sorry graphics will simply take up more space that doesn't need to be taken up, it will also increase the bandwidth downloads. This is an archive of files it's not intended to tantalize your eyes, that's what the mods are for. Comments on the same page - you're not the first one to tell me that, I was considering doing it and I probably will but I am still uncertain I could just hold a poll..hmm. The search engine - I agree on this, I do need to change the headers so they all don't read "pcgamemods 2.0" I'll do that by the end of the day. Smilies on the comments board - I guess I could do that...never even thought it was necessary you're the first to tell me that. Donations - I don't really see how I would need donations the bandwidth is payed off (usually) by the ads but I could offer ad free browsing if you donate - but I am not sure that would really appeal to anybody. And this isn't a matter of sitting down and accomplishing it, it's a matter of where pcgamemods is on my tree of priorities, I usually have a lot of work to do, and I put priority on those before I even think of pcgamemods I'm on break right now so I am probably get to working most of these but even now I am still fairly busy.

Admiral Chemix
12-15-2003, 12:58 PM
Ok the entire thing I just read, is one gigantic excuse, I go to the site daily. I see a bunch of mods with poor descriptions and no screenshots. You'd better ask in better places for reveiwers. You didn't even read my comments either. Someone puts up file just like normal. When a reveiwer has time he takes a look at the mod and writes a 100 minimum word reveiw. You think your going to get the best of the best? no way, the best are too busy, so you are going to have to deal with the decent modders and reveiwers that apply. I want a second opinion on a mod before downloading.

You ask for what the people want and the people want reveiws and you just say no "No one is good enough"

I run a comercial game dev team and work on jka mods, I know what I'm talking about. I have to deal with hiring just good devs. Sometimes I get a few great ones but usualy it's just a decent one. The great ones are usualy too busy for another project.


Donations? Whats the point of Donations? Geez you complain about not having the money for this and that and then you say what do we need donations for?


JK3/2 Files will be my number 1 mod site until you whip yoursite into shape.

Axalon
12-15-2003, 04:30 PM
You have this view like I need to have 20 people on staff waiting for each mod that comes out so they can go and review a map the second it comes out. And sorry that I want some competant people on the site, rather than just trusting anybody who can submit a staff form. Also where are you getting this understanding that I need money all of the sudden especially $400? Oh because that would pay for the licensing to the java uploader so I can 'fix' it so that people can run it? Allow me to tell you that every single computer I have worked on, or been on I have been able to run that uploader. I have yet to have any problems with it, if anybody is having problems it's because they can't read simple instructions on how to install the java client. The site makes enough money to pay for bandwidth every month but it's certainly not making so much where I can throw out $400 on something as such, heck I probably wouldn't if I could anyway since it's a useless expenditure. Buying a license isn't going to increase a user's competancy. I'm not going to lose any sleep at night because Admiral Chemix is going to jk3files more than he is going to pcgamemods, I already told you we are two difference sites. One site (pcgamemods) accepts uploads immediately so the modder can get his file out as soon as possible, the other site (jk3files) is more centric to the staff where as you have to send them your files first and they can take screenshots if they will. I remember a time when I did that, I did a lot of screenshots and you have no idea how many or how long it takes to do so many. I guess that's where pcgamemods' instant submission falls, in the point that there isn't as much 'cleaning' up that we do rather than moderating. Here's a question for you Admiral - if modders themselves don't care about their mods enough to write good descriptions and take screenshots why should we have to do it for them? They obviously don't care enough to do it, so we shouldn't have to waste our time doing it for people who don't care to. We had a discussion about this, there's no reason for us to go out of our way to take screenshots for someone who is too lazy to do it themselves. From a user's point of view should you really download something from someone who didn't take the time to write out a good description or screenshot? It's very rare that a good mod comes out without a good description or screenshots, hell look at the staff picks to find out. Can you honestly sit there and type that we should have to do it regardless of staff amount? I said I would make the necessary changes to the site, even try to figure out a possible new screenshot system but one thing I won't do is cater to the lazy. Oh and again you'll say that this is one 'gigantic' excuse when in reality I am justifying what I should and should not do with my own site, I look at the log almost every day and I see the flux of visitors, some days it's up some days it's down but it's usually almost always up or the average amount so I know I am doing something right to keep visitors coming in. If you want me to get a larger staff so we can start cleaning up after the apathy of some modders then you really should stick with jk3files.com

Admiral Chemix
12-15-2003, 04:39 PM
dude, you need to change your attitude, right now all I'm seeing is laziness and down right anoyance at the thought of doing anything. Go out and find people. I'm not saying hire a bunch of idiots. I'm saying don't only look for the best people. They can reveiw files when they feel like it. atleast 5 a week per person. I didn't think you would feel bad about me not liking your site asmuch as jk3files. but hey I expected you to take a suggestion. You ask the people what they want and then you say no? What is the point of asking in the first place then if you don't want answers

razorace
12-15-2003, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
I run a comercial game dev team and work on jka mods, I know what I'm talking about.

Which commerical game dev team?

SD_Radical_Ed
12-15-2003, 05:28 PM
my suggestions:

make a seprate section in jedi academy for vehicles, instead of just in player models.

2. allow any valid (as in a actual level or mod) level to be posted (even if it has objectionable material) just make a disclamer that says the it in no way represents your views or opinions. i beleve freedom of speech and expression is a must, even if we dont like it, it is a right.

Axalon
12-15-2003, 06:04 PM
I'm not even going to take into consideration what your saying because it's just so blatently stupid. I say something and you sit there and squander over misinterpreting everything that is said. I'll spell it out for you one more time because if there's anything I am getting annoyed with it's your ability, or lack there of, to comprehend what I am trying to say.

First of all, I don't want a large staff.

If I wanted a large staff I would have accepted a lot more submissions.

Second, I don't need a large staff.

I already said thist numerous times but I guess it wasn't sinking in. I don't need a large staff, I don't need people to babysit the modders, this isn't daycare if the modders can't make good descriptions and screenshots for themselves then what does that say about the modder?

I don't need people to review map files or skins, unless they are being given a critique for example like on jk2review, I think others will agree that when they want to download a file they'd rather see screenshots than someone's description of it.

Oh and once again do me the favor of sparing me the apathy trip that you are trying to send me on. I remember a time where I was the only site taking unique screenshots for every file that came in, I did this for over a year, single handidly so where do you get this notion that I am lazy? Because I have better things to do than scout for staff members I don't need?

This is stupid, our bickering is solving absolutely nothing. There's no way I will be able to convince you that I don't want new staff members. And you won't be able to say that I can improve upon the site itself without adding a larger staff to write reviews. You keep bringing this jealousy thing I have for jk3files when I really don't. It's like me saying to massassi.net, do this to get more people. Well they really don't want more people, they are simply catering to a certain group of developers. Which is exactly what I am doing, I am taking suggestions to appease those who already go to the site. Everything else people have said I have taken into consideration, I changed the headers so that search engines can pick up on the mods and I will be changing the sorting ability soon and I will definately be putting up icons on the list of mods that have screenshots or not. You said I should get more staff members, I tried to make an arguement , or excuse as according to you, about how I didn't need more staff members nor wanted more.

I talked to Chadrick, the current owner of jk3files and we had a discussion about this sort of thing. I have known Chadrick since I started jedioutcastmaps.com so long ago. His maps helped catapult pcgamemods into what it is today so I owe him a great deal and he also knows a lot about my site and in general running a site.We both agree that what people like about jk3files is the reviews and screenshots, and what people like about pcgamemods is the instant upload. We also talked about competition between the sites. He simply said the same thing I have been saying. There is no competition, we both aid the community in separate ways. When it comes to "downloads" they have way more than pcgamemods. They also have the entire filesnetwork backbone to support them.

I asked Chadrick about the amount of work he has to do seeing as he has a lot of staff members, and he gave me permission to quote him, since this was on an instant messaging protocol I will simply paraphrase what he said, if I what I say is incorrect at all I am sure he will make a comment about it. He simply said, that his managerial duties take up quite some time, he has to put in a lot of work into simply keeping all the reviewers in que with what they have to do. And like I said I can't allocate that amount of time to watch over staff members. This isn't an excuse Admiral it's a simple fact, I have priorities and this simply wouldn't be one of them. I could consider possibly having the currect staff members have reviewers under them who they manage but I am not sure they would be up for such a responsibility.

Frankly I am a bit insulted by your accusation of apathy against me. Especially after the amount of work I put into jedioutcastmaps and pcgamemods. Suddenly because I don't feel it's appropriate to watch over a group of reviewers, which in this case would be for more than one game too, I am lazy? I looked at your suggestion admiral and I simply feel it's not necessary to do. Like I said jk3files and pcgamemods cater to different groups of people, you obviously are in the jk3files group.

Axalon
12-15-2003, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by SD_Radical_Ed
my suggestions:

make a seprate section in jedi academy for vehicles, instead of just in player models.

2. allow any valid (as in a actual level or mod) level to be posted (even if it has objectionable material) just make a disclamer that says the it in no way represents your views or opinions. i beleve freedom of speech and expression is a must, even if we dont like it, it is a right.

Both are done, I just added a vehicles section and moved over the current vehicles to that section. I talked to the JA moderators last night, anything goes up but the developer should make a note of questionable material in his description.

Admiral Chemix
12-15-2003, 06:26 PM
I never said you were jealous of jk3files. I merely stated that I like jk3files better and why. U have no need to bit my head off. Project Nautiluss Productions is the game dev team I run

SD_Radical_Ed
12-15-2003, 06:55 PM
Yaaaay! somebody listened to me!;) :D

razorace
12-15-2003, 08:35 PM
Axalon: Good call. A vehicles section is a good idea.

Admiral Chemix: Is there a website for your team? Have you ever released anything or are you working on a start up?

Mike Windu
12-16-2003, 12:45 AM
yay, i still think a clan section would be good, and take the clan stuff off of the big list ;) too much to sift through lol....

Axalon
12-16-2003, 05:59 AM
Ok I am going to make a section for Clans it will have subsections too what should the subsections be?

Manquesa
12-16-2003, 06:54 AM
well, I personally like pcgamemods.com, there's very little i'd change about it.


I'm glad they don't have file reviewers, why should 1 person be able to say what's good or not. I prefer the pcgamemods comments instead, you get the opinions of many people. Though I do think some people submitting their files should offer up better descriptions of their mods.

And screenshots should be mandatory, maybe offer an alternative of posting screenshots using a standard file upload script. Php has many of those (I think)

Good Job Sergio, keep it up. :)

Axalon
12-16-2003, 07:43 AM
Manquesa,

First of all thanks for submitting your files to pcgamemods your vehicles are most impressive. As for the ftp php script, I contemplated this for a while, but for that to work what would happen is the following. First of all I think the problem doesn't really lie in the usage of the upload scripts but in Easy Thumbnail, for some reason some people just don't know how to use it regardless of the fact that we put up a simple tutorial. Also, a php ftp script would have to have the user browse to each image file individually and that could end up being a bit cumbersome. Then there would be the matter of having the server handle the resizing. As most of you know when you resize an image it is a bit CPU intensive, if more than one person is resizing images it could invariably overload the server causing it to crash. Here's the solution: make the php ftp script with queing. This could essentially solve the little screenshot problem that happens to be developing. Basically the user would upload the original images that they made for the mod. They would have to browse to each image file individually which wouldn't take that long, unless you had over 30 images. Then they would submit all the images, the images would go into a temporary folder, if someone else is already resizing something the user is placed into a que until that other resize job is finished. This could potentially elimate the clutter that could come out of 5 people trying to resize at once, and solve the problem for requiring screenshots. The reason I don't require screenshots is because not everybody can get this system to work, if I do this php ftp script it would work for everybody since the user wouldn't have any interaction, aside from submission, in the resizing process. Once this method is proved then I can allow for the requirement of screenshots for certain sections (skins, maps vehicles etc.). So yes Manquesa I think I will end up doing that, I figure it's best to have a method, regardless of how arduous it is, that works for everybody so there is no excuse.

Admiral: I'm sorry if you think I bit your head off, but I had to prove my point to you. You basically said at one point that I wasn't listening to your suggestion and I was, I just don't think restructuring pcgamemods is a viable solution, especially in regard to the amount of effort that would be needed to take on such a managerial position.

Axalon
12-16-2003, 08:42 AM
I have made a news post on pcgamemods.com (http://www.pcgamemods.com) with some of the things I would like to do to the site. Please read that over if you can and make comments/suggestions on what I have written.

Lil Killa
12-16-2003, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by Mike Windu
i say we go back to the old way of listing the newest 10 :D that i loved

Go to a game page and look in the upper left of the screen for the drop-down menue titled "Listing:" and choose "detailed" from the list. That view shows the last 10 files to but submited to PCGM for that game page.


Ok I am going to make a section for Clans it will have subsections too what should the subsections be?

Don't know if you still need any ideas but you could have a link in the "Sectios" bar that read "Clan" and under that you could have it split into the different section but that might get messey. You could try makeing a Clan link in the "Sections" nav bar and once a user clicked it they could be taken to a new page. This page would still be like the JA Page but instead would have clan content on it. (click ffa and you get clan ffa maps)


That's just a suggestion and I hope I was able to help in some way ;)

LK

Mike Windu
12-16-2003, 10:00 PM
I like Killa's idea for the clan section. Is there any way that clan things that are submitted can be transfered to just that page instead of the list? :D Just another suggestion...

razorace
12-17-2003, 12:21 AM
I like the idea of editting content for a submission. I don't really think it would be abusable except for getting their mod put at the top of the submission list again. I'd immediately take away the individual's editting ability if they did.

CaladienJedi
12-17-2003, 01:02 AM
try making the add screenshots more user friendly. Instead of having to make thumbnails, just make it so you do everything you need to now, Just without the thumbnail part.

Autobot Traitor
12-17-2003, 04:20 PM
I've been using Pcgamemods since the old days of jedioutcastmaps.com (i think that's what it was called). I've very much enjoyed it so here's my Pros and Cons of your wonderful site.

Pros-

*Simple layout as opposed to jk3files
*Excellent download speed
*Well administrated comment/forum section
*Constant updates

Cons-

*No file reviews
*Lack of screenshots
************************************************** **

Hope this helps!

Side
12-17-2003, 04:25 PM
Make a section called
SIDE Picture Story,
that a hit guarante

see my banner?
it the godam gold

reply to this withint the 3 days otherwise u loose the offer,you betta hurry

Mike Windu
12-18-2003, 02:31 AM
side i think we've all agreed that was just pointless...

Bountyjedi
12-18-2003, 12:09 PM
you shoudl allow other than the author to post screens on a mod perhaps. well then if some1 misused it you would ahve to ban them ofcourse.

i dont know if it woulda wokr very well but it would maybe fix that no screenshots prob then the user screenshots can be in a separate section and stuff. i dont know =P

AxVegetA
12-19-2003, 02:56 AM
The only problem i have with PCgamemods is that every download always say resume is not suported half way to complete it, then i cant make it continue. So mostly i cant use pcgamemods.

Axalon
12-19-2003, 09:42 AM
Good news to all, today at some point I will implement the clan sections and with them, the lovely little option for members to disable the the viewing of anything clan related. If someone tries to pass something clan related into something other than one of the clan sections, the moderators will clean it up :cool:


Vegeta - I have never heard of that problem...it could be with you...

Admiral Chemix
12-19-2003, 11:31 AM
It isn't. After about 15-30 minutes the download becomes resume unsupported. I've had the prob a few times, paused it, came back later, wouldn't start, said the download didn't exist.

AxVegetA
12-19-2003, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by Axalon
Vegeta - I have never heard of that problem...it could be with you...

:( , i use download acelerator, maybe thats the problem.

Admiral Chemix
12-19-2003, 03:15 PM
I also use DL accelerator, it gives the same message, some servers just don't like Download Accelerator or other programs with resume support

Bountyjedi
12-20-2003, 06:16 AM
hmm rally that clanscetions could also messs up some stuff pretty much there are these clan stuff that is liked aswell like darthzappas raceclub perhaps =P (well im not fully truatable on that lol as darthzappa is in my clan) well there are these stuff that is liked aswell it might be hindered to be discoeverd =P ah well ... ill not miss it cuz ill keep trhe clan stuff up =P as im a clan dude myself so ...

Eldritch
12-20-2003, 02:01 PM
Bountyjedi,

I don't think putting clan stuff into its own section would keep it from being downloaded - it would just get it out of the way of everyone who doesn't want to see it. Having it in its own section will actually make it easier to find, since it won't be lumped in with all the other real maps / files (and honestly, who downloads these things other than clan members who know that they're there).

It will also make keeping the JA section clean and organized much easier for me.

Bountyjedi
12-20-2003, 06:37 PM
=p ur kinda rihgt ya and really there is some stuff that gets dled by other ppl than hte ones in the clan for example raceclub again (lol cant get off it) its not specificcaly conencted wiht the caln its just anoterh jkr map for those who like that well it should wokr this way u convinced me =P

Axalon
12-20-2003, 11:02 PM
Oh I can tell you why you can't resume. Download accelerator, when it is looking to resume a file it looks at the download link that you originally used. The user has 5 minutes after he presses the download button to press the download link. The link will die in 5 minutes regardless of whether he clicks it or not. This is simply a measure I took to ensure that nobody could leech files off pcgamemods, and so far nobody has. When you try to resume with download accelerator it simply cannot connect to the link again because the link really isn't there. I'm sorry to say, but when I look at the priorities of saving money on bandwidth leeching in one hand, and allowing people to use download accelerator on another - saving bandwidth wins.

Farnoer
12-21-2003, 01:29 AM
I CANT GET ON WWW.PCGAMEMODS.COM!! why????
its my favorite page
but
we do need forum :)

Crow_Nest
12-21-2003, 08:55 AM
Well i do have 1 problem, its sending screenshots, why do we have to dl the easythumb nails software, resize it, rename then resize it, then rename and make a folder.

Its troublesome. You can improve it by just letting us upload the screenshot without easythumb nails.

Axalon
12-21-2003, 10:18 PM
Then how exactly are you supposed to view the images? You have to resize at some point or else nobody can see the images. Unless they just go to a section called "screenshots" even then people want thumbnails to get the general idea of what they are looking at before they see it.

Zappa_0
12-22-2003, 12:06 AM
I have came up with a few ideas...


1) Yea thoe whole resizing thing is kinda takes up time. Isnt there someway where we the submitters just submit the pictures and have some html script let it be view at a certain size and let it be clicked on for regular size in another window?

2)Or perhaps get another person with the crew to just do screenshots. People sends in the screenshots, then they do what the need to with them so they can be viewed with the file?

3) Submit the files at normal size and just take away the thumbnails so ppl can just click a next or previous button to view them.

I know this to be a fact, if the file most of the time doesnt have a good description or screenshot, people wont download the file. Which that turns out to be the submitters own fault.

Lil Killa
12-22-2003, 02:26 AM
Originally posted by Zappa_0
[B]I have came up with a few ideas...


1) Yea thoe whole resizing thing is kinda takes up time. Isnt there someway where we the submitters just submit the pictures and have some html script let it be view at a certain size and let it be clicked on for regular size in another window?

If you read earlier you would notice that a php option was considered.


2)Or perhaps get another person with the crew to just do screenshots. People sends in the screenshots, then they do what the need to with them so they can be viewed with the file?

Again if you read earlier you would notice that Sergio doesn't want to take on any extra staff and I don't think anyone currently on the staff has enough time to resize the screenshots for everyone.


3) Submit the files at normal size and just take away the thumbnails so ppl can just click a next or previous button to view them.

Unless the user was pressing links or this was on a different page then this might waste bandwidth. Plus someone with 56k isn't going to want to wait on those large pictures to load...


Also if you don't want to use easy thumbnail that you could always go out and find your own program to do it or change the sizes with the correct sufix for each on in an image editing program....

Axalon
12-22-2003, 06:53 AM
Lil Killa did a pretty good job of summing up.

1.) I will make a php script that allows users to manually send each original screenshot up manually. It will be for lack of a better word, idiot-proof.

2.) You mean gruntwork, no. Nobody should have to do something you are to lazy to do yourself.

3.) No.

Zappa_0
12-22-2003, 11:10 AM
WOW calm down, it was only suggestions....no need to bite my head off! I was just trying to help Sergio out.

wedge2211
12-22-2003, 03:46 PM
First off, I would like to say that Sergio has done an incredible job for a three-person site (and hey, it used to be just Sergio alone!)

I have a couple comments based on the discussion thus far:

1. File versions
As has been mentioned before, some authors tend to release several versions of a file in a few days' time, and put in the comments "Ill put a new ver up when I fix this next one bug kthxbye." It would really help to have an "update" button for each map in the user control panel--then authors could re-upload a new file version, change the description, and increment the version number. You could have the updated file appear at the top of the file listing, to reflect the change, but require a new upload so people don't spam the system just to get their mod up top. This could also help combat corrupted .zip files--authors can just upload a new one.

2. Clans
My personal opinion on the matter is, if you have a clan skin or map, give it to your clan. Put it on your clan website for download. Don't throw it out there for everybody to see, when only your clan has any interest in downloading and ranking (probably spam-ranking) the map. Uploading clan maps to PCGM also has the added drawback to clan authors of exposing their often mediocre work to constructive criticism from the community, and then they get annoyed when they recieve such comments. The clan sections and clan-filtering options are a good compromise between people like clan mappers and people like me. ;)

3. Author Comments
I don't think authors should be able to comment on their own work, at leat not initially. Too many mods recieve, as their first comment, the author stating "hey this is my xth map and it has this feature and that feature and thanks to all these people and it's awesome so have fun!" That sort of thing belongs in the description (and, often, these are people with inadequate descriptions doing this!) and is unecessary. Another problem is that authors get into the habit of checking their comments hourly and responding (sometimes violently) to constructive criticism. I think that either authors should not be allowed to comment on their own work, they should not be allowed to make the first comment on their work, or they should only be allowed to comment after a specific time has elapsed, number of downloads has been reached, etc. The only drawback, as I see it, is that authors would be reduced in their capacity to respond appropriately to constructive criticisms, but in my opinion, that's what showcase WIP threads and private betas are for.

4. File Moderating
pcgamemods needs to have a posted, comprehensive set of rules. I check pcgm fairly regularly, and look at most new files, if only cursorily--and so it's my experience that every file that Eldritch removes from the site was either pornographic, plagiarized, or corrupted. Most users of PCGM agreed with his decision--I saw comment sections that consisted of long strings of "this is inappropriate admins plz remove this file"--and then the authors acted surprised when he did just that. There would have been less confusion if the file entry had been replaced by a removal notice containing the reason the file was pulled, which rules were violated. Eldritch took the first step by posting a set of submission rules/reasons for file deletion up on the PCGM home page, but that isn't as visible as the rules should be (ie, stick them right on the submit page). I don't think that any such pornographic/inappropriate/plagiarized material should be tolerated on PCGM at all. It doesn't help the site serve the community, but makes it look more unprofessional and immature. Authors who want to make such material can take their business elsewhere if they don't like it. This is not a problem with Eldritch, Sergio, or pcgamemods.com. I also disagree that Eldritch has been pompous in file comments--knowing him, I know that he tends to be rather blunt and pretty sarcastic (which he could certainly work on...nudge, nudge), but you have to keep in mind that if he comments on a file, he's speaking as a JO/JA gamer, not as "the word of pcgamemods." Using the example of the Trade Federation Control Ship...he said everything I would have said about that map. It was a disappointment after the hype. Comments like "OMG this R0X0RS is AWESOME D/L NOW" don't tell authors or users anything about the map...but constructive criticism (even if it's thorough) does. There's nothing wrong with a contrasting opinion, even if it come from an admin. Eldritch just needs to remember that users don't make a distinction between Eldritch the admin and Eldritch the user.

5. Reviewing
As Sergio has said, staffers taking screenshots or posting reviews is a very cumbersome system. It develops a huge backlog. It's a very good thing for a site to do, great service...but it requires more infrastructure than PCGM has right now, and PCGM is just a different kind of file site with its own needs. Here comes the self-plug I can't believe Kengo missed...if you're looking for a review of a map and a couple screenshots, try Map-Review (www.map-review.com). We provide thorough reviews of maps, from technical, aesthetic, and gaming points of view, and 99% of our reviews contain several screenshots of each map. pcgamemods is one of the primary file sites that we look at for new material and download links. We also have a forum where you can discuss our reviews. [EDIT: Unfortunately, Map-Review seems to be down with the rest of jediknight.net right now...]

Well, Sergio, I'm glad to see you're trying to improve. You've done a wonderful job so far, here's to seeing pcgamemods get even better!

Master William
12-22-2003, 05:14 PM
Thumbnails for screenshots, and there shouldn't be a clan section. Every clan thing should be sorted with the normal stuff.

Casperhead
12-22-2003, 08:33 PM
I think you need to cut down a little bit Files containing mp3 files will not offend the music industry there too busy with kazaa

Casperhead
12-22-2003, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by Eldritch
Bountyjedi,

I don't think putting clan stuff into its own section would keep it from being downloaded - it would just get it out of the way of everyone who doesn't want to see it. Having it in its own section will actually make it easier to find, since it won't be lumped in with all the other real maps / files (and honestly, who downloads these things other than clan members who know that they're there).

It will also make keeping the JA section clean and organized much easier for me.

Real maps a map is a map. Clan maps can be good look at XG arena and the hangout and no wedge I don't think there should be a staff review Rerember this people mapping is not a higharchy.

wedge2211
12-22-2003, 09:09 PM
The distinction is one of intent: clan maps are intended for a specific group of half a dozen or so gamers, while free-for-alls, CTF, etc are intended for everyone regardless. And...geez, I'm apalled that you'd place Hangout in the same category as LDJ. :P

Anyways...yes, I did say that pcgamemods should not review files. They can't support it. It's nice, but they can not and should not do it. That's why I provided an external review site as a shameless plug. :)

Oh, you're not the Casper with bad grammar and an attitude that was banned not too long ago for harassing forum members, are you?

Casperhead
12-22-2003, 09:14 PM
No I'm Ted kennedy. Yes I'm Casper
http://forums.massassi.net/html/Forum5/HTML/010751.html
Do you call that a clan map? It could be one

Zappa_0
12-23-2003, 04:13 AM
Some of the best maps are clan maps. Ive used a few in my movies. One the biggest thing I have against clan related are the skins. They should host those on their own site. Not many people of other clans gets them, to them its only wasted space on there hard drive. But still we cant deny them if they are not able to host them for themselves. Hehehe back in the old days we didnt have clan skins, we had to use those in the game or get the Big Fluffy Pack, which had alot of great skins in it.

kahn
12-23-2003, 04:19 AM
i said this on a comment to a file, but what if you get one more person to help you with putting up screenshots for files who never put one up. I am sure the ppl running right now dont have to the to do so, so if you do get one or tw ppl for all the games, you will get less comments about wanting screenshots.

Axalon
12-24-2003, 05:09 AM
First of all, nobody is hold a gun to your head saying "CLICK THE OPTION TO DISABLE THE VIEWING OF CLAN MAPS NOW!". If you want you can check out the maps specifically for clans in that section, it only makes sense.

My opinion on map reviews:
I think map reviews are completely useless. I have never, and this is pre-jedioutcastmaps.com, downloaded a map because somebody reviewed it or said it was good/bad. I look at the screenshots, this simple concept is what started jedioutcastmaps.com. Who the hell cares if someone says "this is architecturally adequate", download the map and play it for yourself. Better yet, just look at the screenshots. Which is what I did, I setup a site based around using screenshots to sell the map/mod and it obviously worked. I don't know why so many of you are getting wrapped up on map reviews. Would you have downloaded LDJ's Duel of the Fates if you didn't see the 36 screenshots I put up? Would you have downloaded it if I had just said "it's duel of the fates from star wars, it's big and large and I like it". I know I wouldn't, I would want to see what it looks like, seeing as the point of a map is to create a good fighting scenario and be visually appeasing.

Map-review is a critique site, it's just some of the more experienced mappers giving their take on the map and what can be done to improve it or if it's already good, giving the author praise for his work.

I agree with reviewing mods, as it involves more than just looking at the scenery.

Ender_920
12-25-2003, 04:51 PM
I have one suggestion. In order to vote, you have to make a comment on the file. That simple. Because there are so many people out there that vote on a file unfairly because they're sick of reborn skins, because they simply don't like the author, or because they are just bitter people that give every file a one.

The people that vote this way are too lazy to look at the file from different perspectives and in voting unfairly, hurt the author, and the people looking for good files.

It can also be looked from another perspective, people that often give good votes for strange or irrellivent reasons that also give the file an unfair vote.

If a person wants to vote, he or she should explain why the file got that rating. If they don't have a significant reason to give it that vote, they'll simply decide not to vote because they're lazy.

Also, this would help authors improve their files by getting feedback on previous files and allow them to use the information for future mods.

razorace
12-25-2003, 10:11 PM
I think that's a bad idea. There's too much crap in the comments as is.

Ender_920
12-25-2003, 11:23 PM
Well, maybe making a minimum word count of like 20 words. Then they will have a hard time spouting off something short and pointless. The whole premise of my idea is that if these people are too lazy to test the mod, they're too lazy to make an intelligent comment on a file they didn't bother investigating.

Mike Windu
12-26-2003, 07:06 PM
to be honest, there are too many authors and members saying "omg this is soo cool omg omg wow 10000000000000000000000000000000000/10 wow omg you should make more of these wow its so cool i like the big room" and then saying one word like awesome, copying and pasting it like we are all illiterate

these comments are a waste...

razorace
12-27-2003, 05:40 AM
Originally posted by Ender_920
Well, maybe making a minimum word count of like 20 words. Then they will have a hard time spouting off something short and pointless. The whole premise of my idea is that if these people are too lazy to test the mod, they're too lazy to make an intelligent comment on a file they didn't bother investigating.

If you make it difficult, the public is simply quit leaving feedback.

GothiX
12-27-2003, 08:44 AM
Besides, for the best files around at the moment, I'd rather make a short comment, like "So awesome", etcetera.

Darth Kaan
12-27-2003, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by Eldritch
Bountyjedi,

I don't think putting clan stuff into its own section would keep it from being downloaded - it would just get it out of the way of everyone who doesn't want to see it. Having it in its own section will actually make it easier to find, since it won't be lumped in with all the other real maps / files (and honestly, who downloads these things other than clan members who know that they're there).

It will also make keeping the JA section clean and organized much easier for me.

Common sense dictates that clan files are posted to pcgamemods for the same reason all other files are. So players have a place to download them from. That's the purpose of the site, isnt it?

There is plenty of garbage posted at pcgamemods everyday that has nothing to do with "clans." Are you going to start a section for the "Real maps" as well?

lauser
12-28-2003, 06:40 AM
Well I do like a great many clan maps and I do agree with Wedge somewhat. What I don't really like is Eldritch. He and I obviously don't see eye to eye for whatever reason. When I asked him one time to provide examples of false information I was providing on Lucas Forums.....he couldn't. So I surmised he lied. He never answered. I say fire him. (This is my own personal opinion BTW)
I mean seriously he is the only one that I have encountered that generates sparks between people. No one else does that.

(HUGE EDIT HERE BEFORE MY COMMENT GETS DELETED BY A MODERATOR)

Axalon
12-28-2003, 08:35 AM
lauser - That is of course your opinion on Eldritch which is not exactly shared amongst everyone. Eldritch does nothing wrong; he is merely cleaning up the site. As for his comments, I won't put a limit on what he has to say just as I won't put a limit as to what anybody else has to say. It's an opinion, simple as that I won't 'fire' him because what he says bothers you. What he is 'hired' to do is to help keep pcgamemods clean which is he doing a great job at. If he starts doing something like, deleting files for no reason, or modifying the contents of the files then I would 'fire' him. But I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Ender - It's easy to think of these ideas and think of how they would benefit the site. Many of the ideas I have had have had were thrown out simply because ideally the idea worked, but when I placed that idea into a realistic situation I knew it wouldn't last. For instance you say that users should have to comment first before they rate. In that case, someone will say something like "this sucks" then rate a file a 1. If I put a 20 word limit on files users could write "this sucks sucks suck sucks etc.." until they reached 20 words. In an ideal world that idea would work, but then again in an ideal world I wouldn't have to consider such a system since the current system would be working ideally as I intended it to.

Darth Kaan
12-28-2003, 03:52 PM
pcgamemods offers a great place to download maps and mods from and upload them too. That has never been an issue. But, here are the three main problems whether you want to acknowledge them or not.

1. The thumbnail process of submittng screenshots is too envolved, hence why many of the submitting authors are not willing to go through it.

2. You don't screen files before upload.

3. Eldritch has a nasty elitest attitude often to those not in his "circle".

Whatever...there are at least 4 other file sites to submit to and download from. People can choose which ones to use.

GothiX
12-28-2003, 04:16 PM
1. It's easy, you just need to follow the instructions properly. Sadly, not many people are able to do that.

2. Which would take time, and work - PCGM rocks so much because it's the fastest site when it comes to uploading. (Massassi is fast too, but you'll need to poke the level posters over IRC..)

3. He might be harsh in his comments, but really, what he says is true, no doubt about that. he knows what he says, and he's willing to stand for it. I'm harsh in my comments as well, some people don't mind it, others go like "Wtf omg usuk stfu kthxbai lol".

Darth Kaan
12-28-2003, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by gothicX
1. It's easy, you just need to follow the instructions properly. Sadly, not many people are able to do that.

2. Which would take time, and work - PCGM rocks so much because it's the fastest site when it comes to uploading. (Massassi is fast too, but you'll need to poke the level posters over IRC..)

3. He might be harsh in his comments, but really, what he says is true, no doubt about that. he knows what he says, and he's willing to stand for it. I'm harsh in my comments as well, some people don't mind it, others go like "Wtf omg usuk stfu kthxbai lol".

1. I agree and exactly my point. Those that like the site will continue to use it whether authors post screenshots or not.

2. Be that as it may, the admins choose to screen files after upload. So since they are doing that anyway...

3. The review section definately is blunt and to the point and several of you make a living of finding fault with others work instead of offering constructive crits. That's your choice though.

But the one thing that remains constant is this, (I am refering to MP maps) the REAL MAPS are the ones that actually get played on the servers everyday, by the people that play mp. Real maps are not the ones with so much eye candy they are totally unplayable with more than 2 people in the game because fps is non exhistant due to all that "detail" they won't see anyway because they are too busy playing and fighting.

You guys that make a living trashing other peoples work in the review section should write some tutorials on the things you see being done wrong and help others learn (like Wedge and Desotros did). If not, your just being a self appointed expert, elitest and whiner.

They should make a "museum map" section for the ones that have no framerate due to all the expert detail and put it right under the clan section. Oh wait....that would mean work....lol.

just my .002

Axalon
12-29-2003, 07:00 AM
Darth Kaan, it looks like you were trying to say "just my two cents" numerically by putting the value of two cents in decimal notation. While the notation should be .02 you put .002 which would be 1/5th of a penny. With that aside it seems that towards the end of your last comment you were poking fun at the fact that at pcgamemods we (this is the collective staff and myself) do not like to do work at pcgamemods. I was somewhat amused at your ignorance but I'll let you swell in that as like other things you don't understand what you are saying. GothicX is right, EasyThumbnail is easy to use, just follow the instructions. If a user can do that then it means two things one of they being that the user is competant, and the second that he cares enough about his mod to take screenshots. Honestly how hard is it to resize screenshots? I remember I timed myself with EasyScreenshot and it took me under 5 minutes to complete a task of 20 screenshots. Also note that most of the good mods, are those that come with properly setup screenshots for the site.

The sheer fact that you said we should pre screen files is analogous to going up to an engineer working for AMD and saying that the architecture of their chips is flawed and that they should change it to be more like Intel's architecture. I did plenty of time screening files before upload, and it's a pain. If you can't properly place a file up with a good description it reflects poorly on the user, not us. Not to mention the fact that people can get their files up quickly and if someone does screw something up, we can delete it or disable the download.

Your opinions on Eldritch are your own, he has submitted content to pcgamemods and he received a rating of about 7.5 for his map. Though all the comments for his map were positive, Eldritch himself said "Astounding that it's a 7.5 and not one negative comment on here." That file can be located here: http://www.pcgamemods.com/2366/ .

Crow_Nest
12-29-2003, 11:18 AM
Well some of the "old" files will disappear after sometime, make it in such a way that they dont disappear so people can download the old mods.

GothiX
12-29-2003, 11:37 AM
With old files, if you mean clanskins,m I remember Eldritch removed them all, as long as they didn't have a proper description ( ie: "Clanskin for -{[HUBA]}- have fun").

lauser
12-30-2003, 12:08 AM
Well because I think Harry Potter is for children under 12 I gave Eldritchs map an 8/10. But now that I think about it its definately a 10/10. I think these maps should all be SW related but that's me. So if you've never seen H.P. films you would never know and be awed by the map anyhow. But I still don't get along with him, plain as that.

I still like pcgamemods because of the great upload/download speeds(amoung other things). However, I don't think there should be ANY comments whatsoever anywhere on any site. I think that the screenshots should speak for themselves and that the user rating should still be there. So all you have is the rating of the map and screenshots. The mapper wants to know why his map isn't great or doesn't have a good rating? That's what BETA testers are for and mapping forums. I think the comments section can get ugly and also take up a lot of valuble site space. I want to know why my map was deleted and/or not put up? That is what email is for. I know it's a pain for the editors at any site but I think it's a must instead of just leaving the person hanging.

So in conclusion I think it's a great site but screenshots really need to be up. If it's the AUTHORS fault there are no screenshots THEIR LOSS If the EDITORS have time to put in a screenshot.........THANK YOU

GothiX
12-30-2003, 10:16 AM
See, my map, Orbital Extreme (link (http://www.pcgamemods.com/3267)), has had no negative feedback during beta, or in the comments, but it's rated a 7.88 anyhow. I'd like to know what I could do to improve, but if people don't tell me, just say the map rocks, then rate it a 7.88, that's a bit useless, no?

5hade
01-26-2004, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by cey
I love Pcgamemods.com, but i got some problems lately....

When I visit the homepage, I cant go to jedi academy or any other section... my computer says that the internet pages dont excist:(


Anyone know whats wrong?:(

I have exactly the same problem, I recently got a new pc, things worked fine on my old one, but now I can't access any page other than home as my browser says the pages don't exist!!

Any ideas please??

:D

Kengo
01-26-2004, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by Darth Kaan
You guys that make a living trashing other peoples work in the review section should write some tutorials on the things you see being done wrong and help others learn (like Wedge and Desotros did). If not, your just being a self appointed expert, elitest and whiner.


Kaan, I've always respected your opinion but you seem to me a bit off the mark here. I don't understand what you mean by review section? If you mean the comments section, me and Eldritch don't have time to trash people's work, we can barely keep up with preventing mass riots on them as it is...

If you mean map-review, reviewing a map does not mean you are a self-appointed expert/elitist/whiner. Do the people who work for PC Gamer say they are the ultimate games producing team in the World? No, many don't have industry experience even. But they still rule at giving good reviews for the benefit of people who want to listen to them. That's at least what we try to do, sorry if we don't live up to your standards of this. I think our reviews are an awful lot more constructive than 99% of what you get in comments sections on any file site, which seems to mainly be "screenshots look cool, I will download it later. 14th post, woo!"

lauser - We do try to tell people why we took their files down by disabling them for a bit to leave the comments section open. Normally, authors just use this as a chance to go ballistic at us. Nice. If you send a file to any other file site and they don't put it up, you think they tell you the reason? They never do in my experience, though they should I guess.

I kinda almost agree with you about the comments section. They just seem to end up messy. Maybe its more trouble than its worth, it seems to me that a lot less than half the people who comment say anything worthwhile at all.

EDIT: Oh and Shade, I had that problem for a while myself. I know a few other people who have had it too. I have *no* idea why....you don't use Mozilla or anything non-Internet Explorer do you? Guess that could be it?

EDIT2: And finally, for anyone who wants to criticse how me and Eldritch do the file moderating (he's been on it a lot longer than me I know): I would be the first to admit I am not perfect at it, and I make some mistakes too. You are perfectly entitled to your opinions on us of course. But man, you should try it for a week. It may sound cool, but whatever you do, someone will hate you for it. You take a file off because its been ripped off, you will get abuse from the 'author' and his friends/multiple usernames. If you don't, everyone else will complain. If you try to stop people arguing/bickering/complaining in the comments section like a bunch of pre-teens (which they probabaly) are, you will just get all the abuse chucked at you. Whatever the hell you do, a load of people will get upset. It's like being a politician, without the bodyguards. So I'd really appreciate it if people tried to take that into account a little more.

Prime
01-26-2004, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by lauser
However, I don't think there should be ANY comments whatsoever anywhere on any site. I think that the screenshots should speak for themselves and that the user rating should still be there. So all you have is the rating of the map and screenshots. [/B] I love this idea. By and large the comments serve no purpose and are completely unhelpful. They are either, "it r0x0rz" or "it sux0rz". It gives the modder no feedback and doesn't help explain why the mod got a certain score. Hell, half the time the modder's description isn't any better with things like, "OMFG this iz my 1 map, plz be nice!!1!". I would gladly see the comments go.

But really, I think that a screenshot or two should be manditory (like massassi.net). I mean, how can you really tell anything about the map without it? You may get lucky and get a good description, or you might not and thus have no idea what the mod even is. If the process to submit screenshots is too complicated right now, I would say the effort would be worth it to make it easier.

Personally, I've gotten to the point where I don't download a mod because there is no screenshot. I used to take chances on highly rated maps, but more often than not it got a good rating because, "OMG it hsa roomz for my clanz!".

Jeez, this issue has obviously taken its toll on me...

Kengo
01-26-2004, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by Prime
Jeez, this issue has obviously taken its toll on me...

Join the infirmary! I mean club...No, right first time :)

I have to throw my vote behind Lauser's suggestion with you, people have shown that on the whole, the comments are pointless. I think in all honesty you see the exact same thing at JK2Files, even with comments moderators to moderate out the worst of it, and (to a lesser extent) Massassi. Similarly, I feel tempted to request we just utterly ignore any file that has a moronic description from the author. Honestly, if they can't be bothered to spend more than 30 seconds on the description, how much effort did they really put into the file?

Prime
01-26-2004, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by Kengo
Honestly, if they can't be bothered to spend more than 30 seconds on the description, how much effort did they really put into the file? Bingo. :)

Lil Killa
01-26-2004, 07:52 PM
I think the description should still be kept for those of us that actualy add one and helps people decide whether or not they want to download the mod. The description really helps those mods that can't really have any screens taken of them Like a sound mod or something else that might be too diffiult to take a screenshot of.

I have also gotten the habbit of not downloading a file without screens but that means I rarely download anything anymore as it doesn't have screens to show it off or the screens it has shows how poor the actual work is.

Also, on the comments ( I belive i saw this mentioned somewhere before) I think we should keep those as *some* people still give "constructive" critisism and *some* people may actualy use it to help produce better mods in the future.

GothiX
01-27-2004, 09:48 AM
Lil Killa hit the nail on the head - feedback via those comments are invaluable for making better mods, because Map-Review doesn't get to review all maps, and people are not likely to e-mail an author.

Anyways, PCGM still rocks. <3

Prime
01-27-2004, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Lil Killa
I think the description should still be kept for those of us that actualy add one and helps people decide whether or not they want to download the mod. The description really helps those mods that can't really have any screens taken of them Like a sound mod or something else that might be too diffiult to take a screenshot of.

I have also gotten the habbit of not downloading a file without screens but that means I rarely download anything anymore as it doesn't have screens to show it off or the screens it has shows how poor the actual work is.

Also, on the comments ( I belive i saw this mentioned somewhere before) I think we should keep those as *some* people still give "constructive" critisism and *some* people may actualy use it to help produce better mods in the future. Sounds good.

Casper
01-29-2004, 12:18 PM
Well for one the site has become a total anarchy. BTR (Beware of the Rancor) was moved to the clan maps section. <- That wasen't a clan map.I dunno alot of people have left the forums are dead. I like PCGM the way it used to be not the trash it is today. Like the cheats list. I could have used that. Joesolo's terrain PFB. It helped me with my dathomir map. And all mentioned where either deleted, or disabled. And that is not right. I don't think eldritch is doing a very good job. Rerember when he first started there was no new files for 4 weeks.

Kengo
01-29-2004, 01:31 PM
I think you're just trying to stir trouble for someone you don't like - the first four weeks Eldritch was there he was, as I remember, moving and his computer was heavily delayed in shipping - so there was nothing he could do about that.

As you are banned from PCGM due to an attack on the site before my time, I doubt you are too involved in the regular goings on there anyway. Unless of course you found a way around the ban? Wouldn't be the first time.

GothiX
01-29-2004, 02:46 PM
Leave him be, kengo. Now you'll only make the impression of a serious response.

Casper
01-29-2004, 02:47 PM
Oh great now where starting a nerd fight. Yes I have found away around the ban. And yes I Download off pcgamemods So I have a say like every body else thank you. But no like Alot of people Eldritch tends to think he's special. And no I stated my point pretty well. about those files. Good proof. And No I'm not trying to stir trouble Sergio wanted to know how to improve the crazyness at PCGM. I'm just giving suggestions. Now rerember Mate in America we have freedom of speech. No matter what the persons crimes in the past where. Okay?

Casper
01-29-2004, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by GothiX
Leave him be, kengo. Now you'll only make the impression of a serious response.

No Offense Gothic Dude but it's not wise to start trouble,with people you already had trouble with. <- "Its a proverb."

Kengo
01-29-2004, 04:25 PM
What the hell is a nerd fight??

Someone banned 5 times from LF makes a comment there about how poorly a file site he was banned from is run. You have some nerve, and apparently no sense of irony. Whatever.

shukrallah
01-29-2004, 09:40 PM
the upload system is great, i had the opertunity to try it out a few days ago, screenshots took a little while, because i had to retake them in 1028X768 (i think) well.. it was a higher resolution :) but not that long. I know eldritch saw my file pretty fast. Im not sure what time it got up, but i think he saw it maybe 10-20 mins later. I really like the upload it yourself system, its so much faster, and i dont have to wait for someone to download and upload it for me, or follow there email instructions.

Casper
01-30-2004, 02:16 AM
Originally posted by Kengo
What the hell is a nerd fight??

Someone banned 5 times from LF makes a comment there about how poorly a file site he was banned from is run. You have some nerve, and apparently no sense of irony. Whatever.

You never heard of a nerd fight? Damn you must be illiterate. (oops oops sorry did I say that?) Oh well. Okay kengo What I'am doing is called a comeback. AKA something you make after being knocked down. And whats so Ironic about me posting here?

{EDIT} I got rid of the old geiser in my ad He looked like he has been drinking too much Bloody Mary.

GothiX
01-30-2004, 08:11 AM
Kengo, leave him.

Also, LukeSkywalker1, yeah, PCGM moderators are very fast when it comes to checking out files - many kudo's for that. Also, 97% of the time they're doing their job right, so the instances where something goes wrong are rare - I don't see that as being much of a problem, since it's mostly beeing rectified later.

Casper
01-30-2004, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by Casper
Well for one the site has become a total anarchy. BTR (Beware of the Rancor) was moved to the clan maps section. <- That wasen't a clan map.I dunno alot of people have left the forums are dead. I like PCGM the way it used to be not the trash it is today. Like the cheats list. I could have used that. Joesolo's terrain PFB. It helped me with my dathomir map. And all mentioned where either deleted, or disabled. And that is not right. I don't think eldritch is doing a very good job. Rerember when he first started there was no new files for 4 weeks. Let me rephrase my point.

Lil Killa
01-30-2004, 09:07 PM
ig∑nore - To refuse to pay attention to; disregard.


say what?

Eldritch
01-30-2004, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by GothiX
Also, LukeSkywalker1, yeah, PCGM moderators are very fast when it comes to checking out files - many kudo's for that. Also, 97% of the time they're doing their job right, so the instances where something goes wrong are rare - I don't see that as being much of a problem, since it's mostly beeing rectified later.
I think it's mostly because we have quite a few people that alert us whenever they see something is amiss. The kudos shouldn't go entirely to us, but all the people that help us out and act as our eyes and ears, because we can't be everywhere at once (however hard we might try).

Kengo
01-31-2004, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by Eldritch
I think it's mostly because we have quite a few people that alert us whenever they see something is amiss. The kudos shouldn't go entirely to us, but all the people that help us out and act as our eyes and ears, because we can't be everywhere at once (however hard we might try).

Indeed. Some people even took the time to contact the author of an original file in a few cases and they they then let us know they had not given permission for their work to be used/ripped off. It's good to know there are people on the comments section of PCGM and in the wider community who actually get as fed up with people stealing work and credit as we do!

Casper
01-31-2004, 07:23 PM
No I'm not a fan off ripped files either but Eldritch tends to go way out of line read my last post for proof.

Eldritch
02-02-2004, 04:12 AM
Why am I the only one that seems to get grief for doing this? It's something that ALL the admins do... it's part of the site policy - I'm not doing anything outside of our policies.

The bottom line is that you can't make everybody happy... someone will always be upset with something you do or don't do.

Casper
02-02-2004, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by Eldritch
Why am I the only one that seems to get grief for doing this? It's something that ALL the admins do... it's part of the site policy - I'm not doing anything outside of our policies.

The bottom line is that you can't make everybody happy... someone will always be upset with something you do or don't do.

Uh... dude no offense. But please speak english. I diden't understand a word you said. And when did this site policy come into effect? The old pcgm wasen't an anarchy before you came. Hey somebody even submitted a box and was allowed to keep it posted. What was it called. "king room" by jedi_master.

Doomtrooper
02-02-2004, 11:14 PM
Problem... I just noticed that I can no longer post comments on my account
Dr. eL
Is this some sort of bug?

GothiX
02-03-2004, 10:41 AM
PCGM has been acting weird lately, Sergio told me that there's no single KB of space left there. Guess that explains it.

Casper
02-03-2004, 12:58 PM
Well with all the mods, maps, and skins for JO, JA, Unreal T, Enemy Territory, and others. I can see why. Looks like some files might be sacraficed.:mad:

Eldritch
02-03-2004, 01:18 PM
I think a lot of it is due to clans abusing the PCGM upload system. They're essentially using it for hosting all their clan-only maps, movies, and [bad] skins.

There are plenty of other sites that provide free webspace, I just wish some of them would use that instead of us.

Casper
02-03-2004, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by Eldritch
I think a lot of it is due to clans abusing the PCGM upload system. They're essentially using it for hosting all their clan-only maps, movies, and [bad] skins.

There are plenty of other sites that provide free webspace, I just wish some of them would use that instead of us.

Eldritch. I'm going to be honest with you. Pcgm was never the place it used to be before you showed up. We liked it better when you where Sirus black. But when you went by the name of "Eldritch" and started taking over like Saddam did with an Iron fist People left. Alot of people so I say. Look at the forums. Ever since you came people fled. And no Many people can't afford webspace. And Pal. Don't make fun of movies there hard work. Lets see you make a movie WITH OUT SCRIPTING.

GothiX
02-03-2004, 01:52 PM
Let him be, Chris, that remark to Saddam should get him banned in the first place, so it isn't worth it.

But yeah, that, plus movies distributed in 12 freaking parts, probably does it. ;)

Eldritch
02-03-2004, 01:57 PM
Let who be?

Prime
02-03-2004, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by Eldritch
I think a lot of it is due to clans abusing the PCGM upload system. They're essentially using it for hosting all their clan-only maps, movies, and [bad] skins. There is also the problem of people just wanting to see their stuff on the web and so don't wait until it is finished. There are so many betas and versions of stuff it clogs things up. Some people post the same thing multiple times with only minor changes. Why can't they just wait until it is finished before posting?

JediSlave
02-08-2004, 09:58 PM
Well, when ever I click on one of the tabs, I am taken to a search engine called Incredifind. Might want to do something about that..........

keshire
02-18-2004, 06:52 AM
This has been bothering me for awhile, and if it keeps up I'll find someplace else to release my files.

The few oddball people who rate things either all 10's or all 1's just to skew the ratings.

Either track thier votes and disable their privelages when this happens, or get rid of the rating system and rely completely on user comments.

Prime
02-18-2004, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by keshire
The few oddball people who rate things either all 10's or all 1's just to skew the ratings.
Can they vote more than once?

GothiX
02-18-2004, 04:16 PM
They can't, but they could have multiple accounts or be with mutiple persons. I know all about it, thanks to orbital Extreme and Endurance of hatred. I even got an e-mail saying " we rated u a 1/10 cuz u dident make us a clanmap". Simply pathetic.

Kengo
02-18-2004, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by keshire
This has been bothering me for awhile, and if it keeps up I'll find someplace else to release my files.

The few oddball people who rate things either all 10's or all 1's just to skew the ratings.

Either track thier votes and disable their privelages when this happens, or get rid of the rating system and rely completely on user comments.

I couldn't agree more - I've seen the rating of my own files go from like 9 with 10 votes to 6 with 12, and other maps plummet from high 8s to low 6s with just one vote. There are one or two people I strongly suspect of giving every file a 1, as it seems to me that many of the files suddenly go down a lot in score. I'd love to be able to track these people and delete all their scores. Its very, very rare that 1 is a justifiable score, but because it is occasionally I guess you can't get rid of it.

Of less annoyance to me personally and I think less damage to the site overall, but still a pain, are the clan files that get 3 or 10s without any downloads, where blatently fellow clan members are lending a helping hand. I think the 1 thing is a lot more of a problem TBH.

The scoring system is very open to abuse - but then so is the comments section, and I was all for getting rid of that too at one point. But if you get rid of comments, scoring et al then you end up with a site that no one can participate in at all just because there are a few morons out there.

Man, I wish there was some kind of solution, but I have no idea outside of a lot more people moderating.

Axalon
03-02-2004, 03:35 PM
Casper you are an absolute moron,

"Uh... dude no offense. But please speak english."


Are you an idiot? Can you not read? Everything he wrote in that post was in English, oh wait you were saying that what he said didn't make sense in that case what Eldritch said is completely correct.

One cannot please everybody with a system such as pcgamemods, saying something as ignorant as "Pcgm was never the place it used to be before you showed up." that itself doesn't even make sense, honestly try to read that and make logical sense out of it. If anything has hurt pcgamemods it's your registration as a member to it Casper.

Spring break is coming up, which means I'll have time to make changes.

Kengo
03-02-2004, 05:00 PM
He's currently banned at LF so in theory at least he won't read that man.

Originally posted by Axalon
Spring break is coming up, which means I'll have time to make changes.

Oh yeh! :cool:

Axalon
03-02-2004, 08:29 PM
Yeh but, doesn' t mean he can't use a friends computer or go to an internet cafe to check the forums.

One of the definite additions it the agreement to the policy prior to mod submission.

gokuSSJ4
03-09-2004, 06:03 PM
Ofmg wtf the jedi academy page has shut down and can't be found, I thought it was just me but I asked a couple freind and they did not see **** just a couldn't find site ****.

Prime
03-09-2004, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by gokuSSJ4
Ofmg wtf the jedi academy page has shut down and can't be found, I thought it was just me but I asked a couple freind and they did not see **** just a couldn't find site ****. OMFG what wil u do now?!1 N0w tht it iZ gon it wil n3v3r com back!!1one Oh n0! run!11!!1

Oh wait, I can access it just fine. I guess you and your friend better buy new computers quick!! Or you can just relax and wait for it to come back up... :)

I've said it before, but to improve pcgamemods, you have to prevent the crap descriptions and lack of screenshots. Here are the most recent three mods for JA right now (descriptions in their entirety):

ANGELS SKIN PIMP (clan skin)
Description: it is a skin that is pimpin

{HK} Clan Skin Pack (clan skin)
Description: This skin pack is to be used only by {HK} <----- LOL!

The AOD Academy (clan map)
Description: This Map was brought to you all by the mapers of [AOD] special thanks to darksun and will for there hard work this map is still a beta we hope you enjoy the map and may the force be with you all

I mean...come on. Can anyone tell me what these are? At least the ratings confirm that these are a waste.

Kengo
03-09-2004, 06:31 PM
goku - if you mean the JA section at PCGM, then its working fine for me right now. If thats not what you mean then I don't see why you're posting about it here?

Looking forward to that Sergio, very much!

Prime - I don't know what we can do about that, I mean some people just seem incapable of writing half decent descriptions or can't be bothered. It may be that they hardly speak English or in some cases a reflection of how little effort they put into the work - but if you look at the readmes they are written in the same style, if they bothered to include a readme at all.

Personally, I'd probabaly get some sick enjoyment out of removing every submission with a totally meaningless description, but that would be a *lot* of files and I'm sure we'd recieve tonnes of complaints.

Prime
03-09-2004, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by Kengo
Prime - I don't know what we can do about that, I mean some people just seem incapable of writing half decent descriptions or can't be bothered. It may be that they hardly speak English or in some cases a reflection of how little effort they put into the work - but if you look at the readmes they are written in the same style, if they bothered to include a readme at all. This issue has obviously become a pet peeve of mine :)

And after reading up to this point I was thinking exactly what you said next :D

Originally posted by Kengo
Personally, I'd probabaly get some sick enjoyment out of removing every submission with a totally meaningless description, but that would be a *lot* of files and I'm sure we'd recieve tonnes of complaints. Don't forget to have a sign saying, "This mod was removed because the author was a dumbass."

Okay, that was mean, but why show curtiousy to modders by hosting their work when they don't show curtiousy to you by following instructions and making the effort to be helpful?

Anyone have some chill pills for me?

razorace
03-09-2004, 08:29 PM
I like the dumbass sign concept.

b0bafett77
10-23-2005, 05:53 PM
pcgamemods rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kurgan
10-23-2005, 06:04 PM
Appears to be down at the moment...

shukrallah
10-23-2005, 10:03 PM
Hmmm... why bring back this thread? Its soooooo old. I remember posting here though.... a long time ago... :D

One thing to improve PCGM now- add back in moderated comments!

Kurgan
10-24-2005, 06:26 PM
True dat. Didn't realize.. he did revive a year old thread just to praise them, heh. I believe PCGM already went through their major rennovation. Right now the site is down, and has been for the past day...

I guess we can safely close this then until the next big rennovation. Good luck PCGM staff!