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lukeiamyourdad
11-29-2003, 04:41 PM
Should Holocrons be included in the new SW RTS?
If yes, what would be their purpose?
If no, explain yourself.

Discuss:D!

Connemara2100
11-29-2003, 10:32 PM
Ugggh, no. The Holocron is really the only badly done part of the original. I know, its modeled after the AoK concept of Holy Staffs or something, but the trouble is, why Holocrons? In the GFFA, holocrons are extremely rare. And they don't increase your wealth, they are a tool used by Jedi Masters to unlock the secrets of the Jedi.

So maybe they could have a similar concept, but *not* call them Holocrons. That really bugged me.

Frozted_MM's
11-30-2003, 05:41 AM
Again it was gameplay coming into it I honestly don't mind holocrons they are good for game play everything cannot be realism you all need to see this.

They should be more protected and closed off so its a challenge to get them like wild animals surrounding it and 1 padawan cant retrieve it on his own.

Admiral Vostok
11-30-2003, 06:28 AM
Frozted is right, they add to gameplay, however in my design I've done away with holocrons and invented other ways the civs can receive trickles of resources.

Even though it really is just renaming AoK's Relics, I don't feel it was too abstract a concept. However since holocrons are purely EU I'd like to do away with them :D

And Luke's Dad, is this just a desire to see them done away with so I wouldn't have beaten you? ;)

Sithmaster_821
11-30-2003, 01:23 PM
I agree with Vostok (wow) on this one. Holocrons were just a ripoff of relics and made no sense, but an additional method for gaining wealth is a must, seeing that it is really the only exhaustable resource in the game. Maybe if we mde trade morte effective? Or now that nova is widened inot wealth, we can add unique additionl ways to gain it (like taxes for the imps or raiding for the rebs?)

lukeiamyourdad
11-30-2003, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok
And Luke's Dad, is this just a desire to see them done away with so I wouldn't have beaten you? ;)

Kinda...:D

Perhaps Trading with yourself la AoM is a good idea, although it does kill realism.

Admiral Vostok
11-30-2003, 09:17 PM
Trading with yourself is a fairly uninteresting and uninspired answer. It might be okay as a special ability for one or two civs, but overall that makes things too easy. With holocrons you had to go out and secure them, with self-trading all you so is build traders.

Sith, have a look at some of the extra wealth gaining abilities in my SWGB2 design.

Darth Windu
12-01-2003, 03:41 AM
I want holocrons out.
However, to replace this, i have used what i think is an even more interesting credit-producing scheme.

First ofall, the Hutt's get the 'moisture farm' as their unique building and this generates credits for them. Anyway, all civs get the spaceport which is your center of trading.
When one is built, you can start trading with your allies, as in most games, but also, independant traders will start visiting your spaceport (entering and leaving off-screen), with this generating credits for you.

To me, this is more interesting, realistic and more fun than getting Jedi to grab holocrons, plus it makes your spaceport more realistic and important.

Admiral Vostok
12-01-2003, 05:08 AM
That's not a bad idea Windu, though it seems way too easy. You should have to actually do something to get a credit trickle, not just have it granted to you as soon as you get a Spaceport.

lukeiamyourdad
12-01-2003, 07:22 PM
I'm thinking about keeping holocrons and making it increase Jedi abilities instead of giving wealth. It would make more sense and holocrons are still there.

MasterN64
12-01-2003, 10:52 PM
Holos are used in the star Wars universe as a databank almost. It can store vasts amounts of information of Jedi or Sith knowledge. So i do agree with lukeiamyourdad, it should increase Jedi's ability.

Frozted_MM's
12-01-2003, 11:47 PM
Jedi holocrons are used everywhere in SWG they are used to get closer to a jedi slot. Maybe they could be used to unlock a 2nd Jedi Tech Tree just a thought...

Connemara2100
12-02-2003, 12:43 AM
I still think to be realistic holocrons have to be VERY rare.

I'll think about a better credit flow solution.

Hmmm...

lukeiamyourdad
12-02-2003, 07:39 PM
Opening a new Jedi Tech Tree would be a bit too much.It makes the game concentrate too much on the Jedi. Increasing some of their abilities ahould be just fine.

As for the rarety, they should be like they are now. It works fine as long as the advantages are not too great. If they're great, then they should be very rare and protected by tons of animals.

Sithmaster_821
12-02-2003, 11:36 PM
I think if holocrons only benfit jedi, then that is dramatically throwing the focus of the game towards them. Maybe if they only appearred on some maps, or affected all units?

lukeiamyourdad
12-02-2003, 11:41 PM
Well it's not that much anyway. If they benefit all your units, it just wouldn't make sense at all. Holocrons should give some Jedi bonuses only. I don't believe that will make the game focus on Jedi too much.

Sithmaster_821
12-03-2003, 12:27 AM
If they only affect Jedi, then those who dont plan to use many jedi will leave them be, while those people who use jedi, especially civs who benefit jedi, will gladly be able to get this extra bonus. In essence, it serves as an extra bonus for the jedi-centric civs, and a detraction for the non-jedi centric civs, who dont get a similar bonus for their focus units.

Frozted_MM's
12-03-2003, 10:21 AM
Exactly people don't have to build jedi at all to win. Just focus your time and resources into pumping out and war machine and your ready to conquer focusing on jedi are just to add to your war machine or do a little stealthy recon and disable the factories behind enemy lines. Maybe even a little recon to find out what your enemy is planning or just mass about 30 of them and have a large Jedi scale war :)

Admiral Vostok
12-04-2003, 01:03 AM
Yeah, they shouldn't just effect Jedi. They should really operate like the relics in AoM... but that would be ripping off AoM.

lukeiamyourdad
12-04-2003, 01:25 AM
Not only it would rip-off AoM, it would simply make no sense. Perhaps some sort of artifact or old computer thingie that gives your civ knowledge of new armor or weapons or something else. That would fit more the the holocrons. Although it's still an AoM rip-off...
Perhaps we could have both?

Sithmaster_821
12-04-2003, 02:11 AM
Or we could get rid of them

Frozted_MM's
12-04-2003, 02:12 AM
Well all the AoE,AoK,swgb,AoM are ripped from eachother one way or another.

Sithmaster_821
12-04-2003, 02:26 AM
the Ao_'s should be "ripped off" from each other, seeing that they are all part of a series and made by the same company.:rolleyes:

Admiral Vostok
12-04-2003, 02:56 AM
Yeah Frozted, and SWGB is a rip off of Star Wars :rolleyes:

I agree that Holocrons should be done away with. They're EU anyway.

Frozted_MM's
12-04-2003, 09:31 AM
Who cares if there EU they work for gameplay........

lukeiamyourdad
12-04-2003, 08:23 PM
Holocrons add a new gameplay dimension. That's what I'm looking for. Something similar to holocrons could also be added.
It's more then the plain and simple go out and bash out your opponent. It's go out, get the small holocrons/relics/lost data thingies and beat the hell out of your opponent.

Darth Windu
12-06-2003, 04:27 AM
Whats wrong with my idea? It would add more variety and decrease reliance on the gathering of resources, allowing for faster and more frequent unit production.

Frozted_MM's
12-06-2003, 10:01 AM
How can you decrease the reliance on food your whole army is built from those resources why make the job easier for you noone wants a game they can master in a few days.

Darth Windu
12-06-2003, 01:50 PM
I didnt say that you would decrease your reliance on any resource, but on COLLECTING that resource - there's a difference.

Besides, im considering deleting food as a resource, it just seems like an odd resource to have, especially considering that two of the eight civs dont even use it.

Sithmaster_821
12-06-2003, 06:06 PM
decrease reliance on the gathering of resources
Hmm...thats like decreasing a FPS's relience on guns...