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zERoCooL2479
12-04-2003, 04:41 AM
Finally...

http://www.thejase.com/downloads/JAR_10.zip

grab it there for now.

The Linux and Windows Installer versions are being worked on as we speak and will be out this Sunday.

Take Care,
Mike

FK | unnamed
12-04-2003, 05:31 AM
Mark this day on your calendars everyone, 12/4/03 is the day that just being able to connect to public servers and play without being put to sleep or being turned into a wombat because you pissed of some 9 year old with rcon, has now come to an end.

I personally don’t care this time around because base game play bores me to death, but I do feel sorry for a lot of you who just like to connect to servers and play the game.

Kurgan
12-04-2003, 06:37 AM
Kurgan wept...

razorace
12-04-2003, 07:43 AM
Uh, guys. Chosen One stated that he got the picture and had removed all the abusable functions....unlike xmod2 or Omnimod.

EDIT: Before all the xmod2 groupies show up to complain, I honestly don't remember if xmod2 has abusive admin functions or not. I appaligize if it doesn't.

Rad Blackrose
12-04-2003, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by razorace
EDIT: Before all the xmod2 groupies show up to complain, I honestly don't remember if xmod2 has abusive admin functions or not. I appaligize if it doesn't.

Good decision.

So this had to happen on my birthday, eh? What better time to be festive.

shukrallah
12-04-2003, 12:23 PM
lol... happy B-day :whtsmile:

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-04-2003, 03:00 PM
I read the readme for Jedi Academy Reloaded 1.0 and compared it to the readme for Jedi Academy Mod 1.4 for JK2.

While keeping the benign\useful features from JA Mod 1.4 (client IP logging, moving banlist out of g_banips, multiline MOTD, psay, /ignore so players can ignore chat from spammers/killtracker users/racists, etc.), cHoSeN oNe

REMOVED the following commands that were in JA Mod 1.4 from Jedi Academy Reloaded 1.0:

removed slap
removed punish
removed explode
removed empower
removed terminator
removed bunny
removed protect

and to be fair, even xMod 1.2.0 had commands like:

x_ckill <client> Will kill a client with a lightning effect
x_cslap <client> (<vel1> <vel2> <vel3> <damage>) Will smack a client with option damage and direction
x_cprotect <client> Will protect a client like they just spawned in
x_csleep <client> Will put the client to sleep or wake them up
x_ctrip <client> Will knock a client down like they were kicked
x_cfreeze <client> Will freeze client or unfreeze them

so there is less potential for player abuse with Jedi Academy Reloaded 1.0 then there was with either Jedi Academy Mod 1.4 or xMod 1.2.0 for JK2, and far less than the new OmniAdminMod 1.1, which retains "features" like:

- amslap <clientnumber> - slaps <clientnumber> across the room
- amslay <clientnumber> - kills <clientnumber> exploding them

or DCMoD which will have:

Improved explode, all body parts flinging off
Silence players, Sleep players, freeze players
Toggle peoples saber on and off
bantoggle (when set to a player it cant ignite/turn off saber)
/amrob , robs all weapons from a person
/amget (teleport a player to you)
/amtakemeto (teleport to a player)
empowerment, terminator (999 ammo, all weps) banforce...
/amfly and /amland, allows logged in admins to fly around the map as if in spectator mode (invisible)


Isn't better, if admin mods are going to be used (as we know they will be), that Jedi Academy Reloaded is there to compete with abuse-prone mods like DCMoD and OmniAdminMod?

I applaud cHoSeN oNe for removing those abuse-prone commands. He certainly didn't have to. Let's give the guy some credit for moving in the right direction. It takes a big person to realize and admit they made a mistake, and take corrective action.

Thank you cHoSeN oNe.

Rumor
12-04-2003, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
I read the readme for Jedi Academy Reloaded 1.0 and compared it to the readme for Jedi Academy Mod 1.4 for JK2.

While keeping the benign\useful features from JA Mod 1.4 (client IP logging, moving banlist out of g_banips, multiline MOTD, psay, /ignore so players can ignore chat from spammers/killtracker users/racists, etc.), cHoSeN oNe

REMOVED the following commands that were in JA Mod 1.4 from Jedi Academy Reloaded 1.0:

removed slap
removed empower
removed terminator
removed bunny
removed punish
removed protect

and to be fair, even xMod 1.2.0 had commands like:

x_ckill <client> Will kill a client with a lightning effect
x_cslap <client> (<vel1> <vel2> <vel3> <damage>) Will smack a client with option damage and direction
x_cprotect <client> Will protect a client like they just spawned in
x_csleep <client> Will put the client to sleep or wake them up
x_ctrip <client> Will knock a client down like they were kicked
x_cfreeze <client> Will freeze client or unfreeze them

so there is less potential for player abuse with Jedi Academy Reloaded 1.0 then there was with either Jedi Academy Mod 1.4 or xMod 1.2.0 for JK2, and far less than the new OmniAdminMod 1.1, which retains "features" like:

- amslap <clientnumber> - slaps <clientnumber> across the room
- amslay <clientnumber> - kills <clientnumber> exploding them

Isn't better, if admin mods are going to be used (as we know they will be), that Jedi Academy Reloaded is there to compete with abuse-prone mods like OmniAdminMod?

I applaud cHoSeN oNe for removing those abuse-prone commands. He certainly didn't have to. Let's give the guy some credit for moving in the right direction. It takes a big person to realize and admit they made a mistake, and take corrective action.

Thank you cHoSeN oNe.

well cs has slay, freeze, slap and other commands of the like but they aren't abused because everyone focuses on playing the game. just like ctf servers, where xmod was, people focused on playing cuase if they stopped and chattered a bit their team would likely lose.

Alegis
12-04-2003, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop

or DCMoD which will have:


Nope, at least not in a public version may that come

FK | unnamed
12-04-2003, 10:51 PM
it's not just the functions in the mods.... it's the people who will be using them.

Who is going to use =X= mod?

Competition players and serious players.

How often do you think that people will stop in the middle of a league match to /msleep a player on the opposing team because some player had a saber down?

You have to look at things in perspective, and the bottom line is =X= mod could have 7868768768768686876876 admin punishment commands, but the people who will run that mod on their servers are not exactly the types of players who bitch, piss and moan about "lamers".


Now look at who is going to run this Academy mod:

Honor newbie’s and emote junkies.

Mark my word; give these retards the ability to "point and click ban" and Jedi Academy is going to end up just like Outcast did after all these mods landed in our laps back then.

Like I said, I feel real sorry for you base JA players and all the bull**** you are going to have to put up with due to this mod.

SpecialForces
12-04-2003, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
it's not just the functions in the mods.... it's the people who will be using them.

Who is going to use =X= mod?

Competition players and serious players.

How often do you think that people will stop in the middle of a league match to /msleep a player on the opposing team because some player had a saber down?

You have to look at things in perspective, and the bottom line is =X= mod could have 7868768768768686876876 admin punishment commands, but the people who will run that mod on their servers are not exactly the types of players who bitch, piss and moan about "lamers".


Now look at who is going to run this Academy mod:

Honor newbie’s and emote junkies.

Mark my word; give these retards the ability to "point and click ban" and Jedi Academy is going to end up just like Outcast did after all these mods landed in our laps back then.

Like I said, I feel real sorry for you base JA players and all the bull**** you are going to have to put up with due to this mod.

LMAO, your tottaly wrong. maybe thats what you will do if your an admin, but WHATS THE POINT OF RUNNING A SERVER????
to get admin powers!!
All admin powers will be abused, wheather you will or not, is NOT the problem!
No mod is SO cool that a 9 year old admin wont abuse powers. And yes 9 year old kids do have mods like xmod on there servers.

FK | unnamed
12-04-2003, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by SpecialForces
LMAO, your tottaly wrong. maybe thats what you will do if your an admin, but WHATS THE POINT OF RUNNING A SERVER????
to get admin powers!!
All admin powers will be abused, wheather you will or not, is NOT the problem!
No mod is SO cool that a 9 year old admin wont abuse powers. And yes 9 year old kids do have mods like xmod on there servers.




/to the rest of you reading this

This is the part where a person normally would say "I told you so".

SpecialForces
12-04-2003, 11:19 PM
lol, but its true.....

im not 9 and im not an admin, and dont want to be.
I used to though but I NEVER kicked, slaped, banned ect. anyone

Rad Blackrose
12-04-2003, 11:25 PM
Who decided to let SpecialOlympics out of the bag again?

shukrallah
12-04-2003, 11:33 PM
People will DL it for the emotes. (if it has any, idk if it does) but anyways... im happy he took out all of those features that played a part in "messing up" JKII. I know its not just his mod, but its used on about 75% of the servers out there (im guessing) i know its a lot.

DarkLord_44
12-04-2003, 11:38 PM
Actually, since all those commands have been taken out of the mod itself, it is great for all purposes. Since I know all the commands due to me being an admin, what is left to abuse isn't much at all. Sleep is pretty much it. I can be used in bad manners but I don't know if anyone would get a kick out of sleeping people because sleeping makes them invincible so it is not like you can sleep kill. Also, do you really think it would be fun just to sleep someone then wake then and sleep. It just gets boring so with less options to use, the less likely it will be abused (note the rhyme). Anyway I applaud Chosen for his mod and I hope it goes well.

I know most you other people who dislike this mod are people who probably are very stuck in their ways and what I said above will have no affect and you will continue to banter. But this is ok. But it was the most used mod in the JKO community and from the servers that I played on that used it, it worked very nicely. The majority of people doesn't make it right, but also the majority of people doesn't make it wrong.

Since Rcon is very limiting, I believe this is the best choice admins.

Darth Kaan
12-05-2003, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by SpecialForces
LMAO, your tottaly wrong. maybe thats what you will do if your an admin, but WHATS THE POINT OF RUNNING A SERVER????
to get admin powers!!


No...you are the one that is totally wrong.

I as well as many others, especially the FK | run servers so other people who play the game seriousely have a place to do so. It has nothing at all to do with admin's having "emote powers".

Your as lost and clueless as Rosh Penin.

Leebs
12-05-2003, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
it's not just the functions in the mods.... it's the people who will be using them.

Who is going to use =X= mod?

Competition players and serious players.

How often do you think that people will stop in the middle of a league match to /msleep a player on the opposing team because some player had a saber down?

You have to look at things in perspective, and the bottom line is =X= mod could have 7868768768768686876876 admin punishment commands, but the people who will run that mod on their servers are not exactly the types of players who bitch, piss and moan about "lamers".


Now look at who is going to run this Academy mod:

Honor newbie’s and emote junkies.

Mark my word; give these retards the ability to "point and click ban" and Jedi Academy is going to end up just like Outcast did after all these mods landed in our laps back then.

Like I said, I feel real sorry for you base JA players and all the bull**** you are going to have to put up with due to this mod.

Actually, the functions in a mod are what attracts the people using them. If xmod did indeed have that many admin powers, the "honor newbies" will chose it over all else.

However, I do see the potential of abusive admins overrunning this game :(

Vulkan_HFB
12-05-2003, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
it's not just the functions in the mods.... it's the people who will be using them.

Who is going to use =X= mod?

Competition players and serious players.

How often do you think that people will stop in the middle of a league match to /msleep a player on the opposing team because some player had a saber down?

You have to look at things in perspective, and the bottom line is =X= mod could have 7868768768768686876876 admin punishment commands, but the people who will run that mod on their servers are not exactly the types of players who bitch, piss and moan about "lamers".


Now look at who is going to run this Academy mod:

Honor newbie’s and emote junkies.

Mark my word; give these retards the ability to "point and click ban" and Jedi Academy is going to end up just like Outcast did after all these mods landed in our laps back then.

Like I said, I feel real sorry for you base JA players and all the bull**** you are going to have to put up with due to this mod.

I agree with your sentiments, though I sincerely wish you (And pretty much everyone in this board) would phrase them in a more friendly manner...

The only things I was looking for in a jedi academy server mod are multi duels, a true ingame motd and moving the banlist out of g_banips. Now hopefully xmod will provide that in the near future and I'll be able to use it in my server, otherwise I'll have to install this one and have my server unfairly generalized as is standard around these parts.

Oh well...

Kurgan
12-05-2003, 01:19 AM
This is what I've been thinking lately (and isn't it obvious?):


Admin Mods are created and promoted by people who subscribe to the "Honor Dueling" model of JA/JK2 online play.


Now that's not to say that an admin mod can't have other uses (as Amidala points out), such as keeping a running tally of people that have been banned, or using black names or hilt/skins and stuff that's packed into a mod like this.


But the main point of the mod seems to be to have an Admin with "godlike" powers to "deal out rewards and punishments" to players in a way to enforce an "honor code" (whatever that code of honor is).

The gamemode itself is setup to encourage "honorable dueling" that is, a game type that is in all ways identical to "Duel" except that instead of being in spectator mode, the other players are wandering around with their avatars in the gaming world.


They're supposed to either be dueling, or standing around "role playing".... talking to each other, using emotes to "pretend" and such like that. Though the emotes seem to be intended to "negotiate" with the admin (they're supposed to use the "beg" command to apologize after the scolding the admin gives them with the slap and other punishments) and to "role play" during a duel.


Since this style of play is totally alien to the original intents of the Raven developers, people who like to play the base game modes (CTF, FFA, Duel, Siege) such as myself have no use for an admin mod and in fact find them annoying, especially in their abuse (ie: Admins being jerks, using commands to cheat, or take out their petty frustrations on players who can't do anything to defend themselves). The "honor" system to me is pointless.

The game already has all the tools necessary in order to have two players saber dueling one on one with no interferance and a level playing field. Admins already have the power to (more or less) permanently remove players they don't like from the game.

*Muses*

The only real benefit I can see in an admin mod is the ability for more than one group of people to duel at once, thus (theoretically) eliminating the "line waiting boredom" syndrome prevelant in popular Dueling servers.

However, this option alone could be used apart from all the other "stuff" like the slapping and sleeping and emoting and whatnot. It's too bad somebody doesn't just release a stand alone "multiple duels allowed in FFA" mod, then people wouldn't be forced (or tempted) to use all this other nonesense.

Kurgan
12-05-2003, 01:22 AM
And theoretically XMod would cater to competative players.

However, I haven't (yet, and I know the mod is far from finished) seen any real evidence that this would be so for Xmod.

The presence of a (partially functional) flip kick would theoretically lead to more combo possibilities and options for sabers only ctf (as we've been lectured about numerous times already).

But somebody could just as easily play Xmod with this option turned off could they not? So somebody could download and use xmod simply because they don't like Pull+Throw.

The "goal" of Xmod2 seems to be to restore in the minds of former JK2 "elite players" the style of gameplay they liked in the previous game as opposed to JA. Good luck to them and I hope they are successful in their quest.

Though, conversely, somebody (like Amidala) could theoretically use an Admin mod just for one or two features it offers rather than as a way to enforce "honorable dueling" in a FFA setting.

FK | unnamed
12-05-2003, 01:32 AM
I'm sorry if I come across abusive but these mods are just pure garbage on so many levels and it really pisses me off to no end that these mod makers keep making these types of mods when they know full well the damage they cause to the overall community but turn a blind eye.



Look let's ignore all the stupid commands like "sleep" for a second and focus on the biggest problem with these mods:

Point and click banning.

The whole "rcon is too confusing/limiting" argument is just plain absurd.


/rcon status

(gives you the client IP and client #)

/rcon addip <IP address here>


/rcon clientkick <# here>



That's all it takes to permanently ban a client in a quake 3 engine game.

How hard was that?

If you have admins on a server that are too damn stupid/lazy to remember/enter those 3 simple commands, then you have people who are not qualified to be running a server... running your server.


The thing is most server owners would NEVER give full rcon to a 9 year old kid.

Why?

Because the chances are he would screw things up all to hell.


Yet we give this immature, temperamental child the ability to point and click ban every person who enters the server at his will?

Please tell me I'm not the only one who sees just how ass-backwards of a mentality that is.

And that's exactly what happened on public servers that ran this mod in Outcast and it is what will happen again.

Every time some brat does not get his way, you can expect a /kickban.

And the sad part is, much of the time the server owners have no clue what all the "sub admins" or whatever they are called, do to people.

Now on to the sleep command.

Why is this needed?

Other than to give 9 year old brats a means to stand over helpless players, and call them "faggots lamers" before they ban them...

zERoCooL2479
12-05-2003, 01:36 AM
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
it's not just the functions in the mods.... it's the people who will be using them.

Who is going to use =X= mod?

Competition players and serious players.

How often do you think that people will stop in the middle of a league match to /msleep a player on the opposing team because some player had a saber down?

You have to look at things in perspective, and the bottom line is =X= mod could have 7868768768768686876876 admin punishment commands, but the people who will run that mod on their servers are not exactly the types of players who bitch, piss and moan about "lamers".


Now look at who is going to run this Academy mod:

Honor newbie’s and emote junkies.

Mark my word; give these retards the ability to "point and click ban" and Jedi Academy is going to end up just like Outcast did after all these mods landed in our laps back then.

Like I said, I feel real sorry for you base JA players and all the bull**** you are going to have to put up with due to this mod.

Maybe if you read the Readme or knew 1 thing about this mod for JK:JA, you would know that I have:

a) Not added any emotes other than unlocking the ones Raven gave us for ffa.
b) Got rid of admin empower, terminator, punish, protect, slap, bunny.
c) There are no added abusable commands.

Bottom line, this mod is safe and not destructive like the predecessors. The only person you should be ranting and raving about is the person that has not seen through this and has decided to release abusive crap to the community again. Sorry, but you really need to point the finger elsewhere this time!


PS: In case you didnt know, you can only ban a certain amount of ip's before flushing the server to make room. The cVar was replaced by an external file (which doesnt reset when you restart the server) called banIP.dat. The reason secondary admins were made is cause we dont want people to have the ability to shut the server down or nerf cvars. Giving them enough abilities to do what is right on the server in case someone is being a complete d-head.

FK | unnamed
12-05-2003, 01:42 AM
Originally posted by Kurgan
And theoretically XMod would cater to competative players.

However, I haven't (yet, and I know the mod is far from finished) seen any real evidence that this would be so for Xmod.

The presence of a (partially functional) flip kick would theoretically lead to more combo possibilities and options for sabers only ctf (as we've been lectured about numerous times already).

But somebody could just as easily play Xmod with this option turned off could they not? So somebody could download and use xmod simply because they don't like Pull+Throw.

The "goal" of Xmod2 seems to be to restore in the minds of former JK2 "elite players" the style of gameplay they liked in the previous game as opposed to JA. Good luck to them and I hope they are successful in their quest.

Though, conversely, somebody (like Amidala) could theoretically use an Admin mod just for one or two features it offers rather than as a way to enforce "honorable dueling" in a FFA setting.

Yes, =X= mod could be abused.

Hell, I'll shoot totally straight with you on this, I personally don't like the way the official =X= server is run to be 100% honest.

I think there are some people there with admin that are quite immature and childish and are what I would call "kick happy" admins.

And I do think a lot of the admin things that were put in =X= mod should not be there.

But that said, let's be frank, what are the chances of you seeing people put to sleep on an =X= server and then insulted as opposed to that situation happening on an Academy reloaded server?

TK-8252
12-05-2003, 01:44 AM
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
The whole "rcon is too confusing/limiting" argument is just plain absurd.

...

Now on to the sleep command.

Why is this needed? If you were an admin of an "FFA duel server" you'd understand. It is IMPOSSIBLE to get a lamer or n00b's attention with simple chat commands. Often people don't even read chat so they have no idea that an admin is speaking to them. Putting a person to sleep gives the admin the time to explain the rules to the person and make sure that there is no confusion. I can assure you that at JK3Files we never stand over a sleeping person and scream how much of a f***ing lamer n00b they are.

And I'm not even allowed to ban people because if the ban file gets too big... guess what? The server crashes!

FK | unnamed
12-05-2003, 01:51 AM
Originally posted by zERoCooL2479
Maybe if you read the Readme or knew 1 thing about this mod for JK:JA, you would know that I have:

a) Not added any emotes other than unlocking the ones Raven gave us for ffa.
b) Got rid of admin empower, terminator, punish, protect, slap, bunny.
c) There are no added abusable commands.

Bottom line, this mod is safe and not destructive like the predecessors. The only person you should be ranting and raving about is the person that has not seen through this and has decided to release abusive crap to the community again. Sorry, but you really need to point the finger elsewhere this time!


PS: In case you didnt know, you can only ban a certain amount of ip's before flushing the server to make room. The cVar was replaced by an external file (which doesnt reset when you restart the server) called banIP.dat. The reason secondary admins were made is cause we dont want people to have the ability to shut the server down or nerf cvars. Giving them enough abilities to do what is right on the server in case someone is being a complete d-head.

Why is sleep needed?

Just answer me that.

Are you going to sit here with a straight face and tell me people won't abuse the hell out of that this time either?

Are you going to tell me in JO, childish admins did not get off on standing over sleeping players while insulting them with every derogatory four letter word/racial slur in the book?

Do you not grasp that was the pretty much sole function that command was used for on public servers?

Humiliating and degrading players is your idea of bringing the community together?

Do you really think that won't happen this time around?


Cut the PR bull**** man, no one over the age of 12 is buying it.

g//plaZma
12-05-2003, 01:58 AM
Originally posted by zERoCooL2479
Maybe if you read the Readme or knew 1 thing about this mod for JK:JA, you would know that I have:

a) Not added any emotes other than unlocking the ones Raven gave us for ffa.
b) Got rid of admin empower, terminator, punish, protect, slap, bunny.
c) There are no added abusable commands.

Bottom line, this mod is safe and not destructive like the predecessors. The only person you should be ranting and raving about is the person that has not seen through this and has decided to release abusive crap to the community again. Sorry, but you really need to point the finger elsewhere this time!


PS: In case you didnt know, you can only ban a certain amount of ip's before flushing the server to make room. The cVar was replaced by an external file (which doesnt reset when you restart the server) called banIP.dat. The reason secondary admins were made is cause we dont want people to have the ability to shut the server down or nerf cvars. Giving them enough abilities to do what is right on the server in case someone is being a complete d-head.

Thanks a lot for this, Chosen. No abusive admin commands is always good.

I know the versions of JA mod you've released for JK2 weren't meant to do what it did to pubs but most of the time, the servers that ran your mod had idiotic 12 year old admins who thought they really had some power and were tough ****.

We all know though that some jerkoff newbie who feels that admin mods with these abusive commands were fun will make his own admin mod and it will circulate through the JA community within a week and will once again make pubbing hell to many players. I can only hope this doesn't happen though.

SpecialForces
12-05-2003, 01:58 AM
Originally posted by Darth Kaan
No...you are the one that is totally wrong.

I as well as many others, especially the FK | run servers so other people who play the game seriousely have a place to do so. It has nothing at all to do with admin's having "emote powers".

Your as lost and clueless as Rosh Penin.

hehehehehehe,
I didnt mean that.
I meant crazy 9 y. olds will run servers for power. not everyone runs it like chopshop or fk.
And allot of servers are made because of the God like powers.
I didnt mean fk do that......
:)

TK-8252
12-05-2003, 02:03 AM
Chances are, the abusive admins will get the cheapo abuse mods that have slay and slap. Jedi Academy Reloaded probably will get a certain amount of abuse leaked out of it, but thank god that cHoSeN oNe is not releasing the source code.

But you need to realize that not ALL admins will be abusive. There are admins who are just there to have fun like decent people, and enforce their server rules appropriatly <sp?>. I can promise you that.

SpecialForces
12-05-2003, 02:21 AM
sure, agreed :)

massadoobie
12-05-2003, 03:22 AM
I'd just like to add my opinion here real quick. Most of you have NO clue who I am, so you probably won't care about my explanation, but... I run and co-founded the Jedi Academy website (www.thejediacademy.net) that gives JAMod its name. Chosen, a high ranking member of the school, made the mod originally to allow us to control our classes and our private servers.

We have very little toleration for n00b players, idiots, immature brats, etc, and so Chosen added in the admin commands like sleep and slap to allow us to discipline students who were out of line during a class.

Now, he had NO idea what kind of hell would break loose when he first created it, but now that JAMod is out for JK:JA and all that is left is sleep, i agree with Chosen's decision. As for leaving sleep, since the primary objective of this mod is to help us run classes and such, sleep is a great tool to stop an unruly student from disrupting a class without resorting to kicking. It is an attempt to get the unruly student/player to see the error of his/her ways and to calm down.

I also think this could be a useful command for admins of public servers... kind of like a "timeout in the corner" like in elementary school. Whether it is actually used that way, there's no way to tell. That's up to the maturity of the admin.

I can't speak for Chosen on this, but IMO the JAMod is designed for our academy first, and the fact that it's become as popular as it is is really just an extra bonus. The original idea was for Chosen to take the old Vulcanus mod and customize it for our purposes. I don't think he ever thought of the long-range ramifications should his mod unexpectedly become popular. But now it is, and I feel with this new version Chosen has taken out most of the problems people have and left in the stuff that is incredibly useful. But of course I'm biased, feel free to disagree at will.

zERoCooL2479
12-05-2003, 03:45 AM
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
Why is sleep needed?

Just answer me that.

Are you going to sit here with a straight face and tell me people won't abuse the hell out of that this time either?

Are you going to tell me in JO, childish admins did not get off on standing over sleeping players while insulting them with every derogatory four letter word/racial slur in the book?

Do you not grasp that was the pretty much sole function that command was used for on public servers?

Humiliating and degrading players is your idea of bringing the community together?

Do you really think that won't happen this time around?


Cut the PR bull**** man, no one over the age of 12 is buying it.

I knew you were going to bring that up and although doob makes a good point. I'll give ya another one.

Sleep does a few things.
1) paralyzes the client so you can talk some sense in the brat if he/she tends to interfere with what you are doing.

2) I set the godmode flag on sleeping clients so those that wish to lame them, cannot harm them...so it doesnt affect any abuse that way.

3) I really dont think it humiliates them at all. Its just another step before kickbanning them off the server, cause in all do respect, I dont like kicking anyone off of servers unless it is REALLY necessery.


So my answer is YES, FK | unnamed, I do think it will be different this time around. I hope people don't download those other mods that are attempting to repeat my past. The game is still kinda new and people are still newbies so lets keep a little optimizm.

FK | unnamed
12-05-2003, 07:20 AM
right...


Look guy, I have noting against you, hell I don't even know you.

My problem lies in the damage these mods cause to the community so my gripe is not specifically with you.

But I have to wonder how on earth you could honestly believe that "sleep" would not be abused.

That was the single most abused command in any of these mods.

And being that the Academy mod was not the first admin mod for Outcast, you had to have noticed some of the absurd crap that was going in in those Vulcan's servers.

So unless you spent your entire duration of Outcast game play on some isolated server out in the boonies, I'm only left with the conclusion that you did indeed know these commands were being abused and were causing a hell of a lot of grief for the players just trying to have a good time, and you chose to ignore it.

I mean really man, myself and many others posted countless demos on these very forums showing just how childish and vulgar people could be when they had admin on a server running your mod.

And 99% of the time it was not the bunny or empower commands that were abused, (hell you at least could put up a fight when those were used) it was that stupid sleep command.

The server name may change but the scene is always the same:

5 /model "reborn/boss" players standing over some sleeping guy calling him a faggot and a noob and a lamer and telling him his mother is a whore and he's gay and... you get the point.

Doubt this happens?

How many dozens of demos would you like me to send you of it being done?

The thing is guy; don't look at this from the perspective of a player like myself or yourself who has been around for a while.

Look at it through the eyes of that kid who just got the game for his birthday and is playing online for the first time.

He connects to 5 separate servers running your mod and on all 5 he's pinned to the floor and rendered immobile because he just wanted to play this cool new star wars game, swing his saber around and zap some people with lightning.

Now first off, he's probably confused as hell.
Most games action games where killing people is the way to score points, don’t punish you for using weapons on other players so he's probably getting really frustrated by the third server he connects to and experiences punishment for just trying to play.


Now factor in the fact that on 4 out of 5 of those servers, while he was pinned to the ground he had a pack of people standing over him calling him every derogatory slur you could imagine.

Would you really want to keep playing a game in that kind of community?

Kurgan
12-05-2003, 12:13 PM
Btw, I forgot to say Kudos to Chosen One for Removing the Abusive Commands!


Hopefully other admin mod authors will follow suite! (and keep the source code private for crying out loud!).

Agreed with the sentiment of Unnamed and Amidala on this subject...

Coraith
12-05-2003, 01:56 PM
Well FK | unnamed, it would appear that you managed to play on all the "worst" servers in JO for admin abuse and avoided all the good ones, this is the only way you would have come by such a "dismal" view of the JK community at large.

Kurgan, we can all see you are an intelligent man but judge your replies to other threads including this one and most would come to the conclusion that you don't play the JK games that much and your mistakes in certain threads has show this, therefore all though your arguments carry weight at first its soon becomes apparent that it is all second hand points of view.

Here are some "facts" from my extensive experience with JO and the Admin mod created by ChoosenOne here.

On average 8 out of 10 servers that I personally played on regularly used JA Admin mod. On average 7 out of 8 ran the mod without abuse.

The majority of dedicated server owners are adults, manly because most parents would not pay 30-50 dollars a month for their Childs game. Therefore most servers are run by mature people who have no interest in "power" over other gamers and just wish to have the rules followed, as is their right as the bill payer. Now that’s a fact I know through my own experience with other various server owners/various clans.

I myself owned a dedicated server, all rules were in the MOTD as with most dedicated servers. I also used chat binds to make sure no one was under any confusion about the rules of the server.

In the event of a player joining that didn't follow the rules these were the standard actions in this order providing the player didn't stop breaking the rules.

1) Verbal warning (public chat) usually accompanied with a re-show of the MOTD.
2) Sleep/Slap, with a second explanation of the rules.
3) Kicked with reason attached.
4) Kick Banned.

This was the standard on most servers I played on in JO, fact. If not exactly like this is was something very similar. Warnings then kicked, a simple yet fair system.

Now ChoosenOne here has gone out of his way to provide the same fair system and has removed the commands admins just don't need, like ampunish and empower. For this he should be commended not slated.
=X= Mod for example has all the "abusive" commands any 9 year old wannabie admin could ask for, OmNi mod the same.
ChoosenOnes mod on the other hand is made strictly to help server owners/admins enforce rules easily.

Now is it open to abuse?....off course it is but for that matter so is rcon.

If I purchase a dedicated server again I want to know that I can deal with players that won't follow my rules. This is my right as the server owner. If there is a mod out there that works better than Rcon then that’s better for a server owner and the regulars that play there and follow the rules.

Just because a system is open to abuse does not mean it is bad and must by slated and picked apart by so called "competitive" players.

RL example,
The police carry night sticks and mace, should we campaign to have all their weapons removed because one or two slap happy cops maybe a bit over zealous with said weapons?

If you come across a server with abusive admins you just leave and never go back, this is your only effective course of action.
The argument that new players will be "put off" the game by said abuse is ridiculous, when I was a new player in JO I did as the others were doing, if I joined a server were everyone was going crazy and killing indiscriminately that is how I played, if I joined a server were everyone was dueling or acting "civilized" then I acted accordingly.
Following this simple rule I remained un-banned from any server and only managed to get myself kicked once.

Now this may make me look a little sad but I played JO to death, every day for about 8 months and on hundreds of servers. This proves to me that if you follow the rules of the server you don't get admin abused. Fact, through personal experience.

Now there is a good few servers out there that will have abusive admins, off course there will be (manly home servers, owned by kids) but that is a minority, the majority of server owners are adults with good sense.
Home servers and the small few dedicated servers run by Children will not run JA mod and are more likely to go for =X= mod or OmNi mod because they provide a much better selection of “abusive” commands for admins.

This is all fact from my point of view and with my experience I think it is safe to say that I am right or damn close.
Now no doubt people will quote me and try to “pick apart” my point of view but the fact remains that I know this to be true, anyone with the experience I have in JO would know this to be true. I expect JA to be much the same.

Argue if you must but at the end of the day if most dedicated server owners choose admin mods then you are all going to have to learn how to follow rules or play on other servers, if it turns out that ALL servers end up running admin mods then that’s all there is to it. Follow server rules or do not play, simple really, like it or not.

The only option left to anyone who doesn’t like it is to purchase a server of your own and run it how you see fit.

Finally I will not be drawn into a “flame war” with anyone here. I post this once and only once and have no wish to argue semantics. The main reason I did it is because a lot of forum members here have either got so jaded by reading here or have become so set in the own style of game play that they can’t see the wood for the trees.

My 2 cents,

Rumor
12-05-2003, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by Coraith
Well FK | unnamed, it would appear that you managed to play on all the "worst" servers in JO for admin abuse and avoided all the good ones, this is the only way you would have come by such a "dismal" view of the JK community at large.

Kurgan, we can all see you are an intelligent man but judge your replies to other threads including this one and most would come to the conclusion that you don't play the JK games that much and your mistakes in certain threads has show this, therefore all though your arguments carry weight at first its soon becomes apparent that it is all second hand points of view.

Here are some "facts" from my extensive experience with JO and the Admin mod created by ChoosenOne here.

On average 8 out of 10 servers that I personally played on regularly used JA Admin mod. On average 7 out of 8 ran the mod without abuse.

The majority of dedicated server owners are adults, manly because most parents would not pay 30-50 dollars a month for their Childs game. Therefore most servers are run by mature people who have no interest in "power" over other gamers and just wish to have the rules followed, as is their right as the bill payer. Now that’s a fact I know through my own experience with other various server owners/various clans.

I myself owned a dedicated server, all rules were in the MOTD as with most dedicated servers. I also used chat binds to make sure no one was under any confusion about the rules of the server.

In the event of a player joining that didn't follow the rules these were the standard actions in this order providing the player didn't stop breaking the rules.

1) Verbal warning (public chat) usually accompanied with a re-show of the MOTD.
2) Sleep/Slap, with a second explanation of the rules.
3) Kicked with reason attached.
4) Kick Banned.

This was the standard on most servers I played on in JO, fact. If not exactly like this is was something very similar. Warnings then kicked, a simple yet fair system.

Now ChoosenOne here has gone out of his way to provide the same fair system and has removed the commands admins just don't need, like ampunish and empower. For this he should be commended not slated.
=X= Mod for example has all the "abusive" commands any 9 year old wannabie admin could ask for, OmNi mod the same.
ChoosenOnes mod on the other hand is made strictly to help server owners/admins enforce rules easily.

Now is it open to abuse?....off course it is but for that matter so is rcon.

If I purchase a dedicated server again I want to know that I can deal with players that won't follow my rules. This is my right as the server owner. If there is a mod out there that works better than Rcon then that’s better for a server owner and the regulars that play there and follow the rules.

Just because a system is open to abuse does not mean it is bad and must by slated and picked apart by so called "competitive" players.

RL example,
The police carry night sticks and mace, should we campaign to have all their weapons removed because one or two slap happy cops maybe a bit over zealous with said weapons?

If you come across a server with abusive admins you just leave and never go back, this is your only effective course of action.
The argument that new players will be "put off" the game by said abuse is ridiculous, when I was a new player in JO I did as the others were doing, if I joined a server were everyone was going crazy and killing indiscriminately that is how I played, if I joined a server were everyone was dueling or acting "civilized" then I acted accordingly.
Following this simple rule I remained un-banned from any server and only managed to get myself kicked once.

Now this may make me look a little sad but I played JO to death, every day for about 8 months and on hundreds of servers. This proves to me that if you follow the rules of the server you don't get admin abused. Fact, through personal experience.

Now there is a good few servers out there that will have abusive admins, off course there will be (manly home servers, owned by kids) but that is a minority, the majority of server owners are adults with good sense.
Home servers and the small few dedicated servers run by Children will not run JA mod and are more likely to go for =X= mod or OmNi mod because they provide a much better selection of “abusive” commands for admins.

This is all fact from my point of view and with my experience I think it is safe to say that I am right or damn close.
Now no doubt people will quote me and try to “pick apart” my point of view but the fact remains that I know this to be true, anyone with the experience I have in JO would know this to be true. I expect JA to be much the same.

Argue if you must but at the end of the day if most dedicated server owners choose admin mods then you are all going to have to learn how to follow rules or play on other servers, if it turns out that ALL servers end up running admin mods then that’s all there is to it. Follow server rules or do not play, simple really, like it or not.

The only option left to anyone who doesn’t like it is to purchase a server of your own and run it how you see fit.

Finally I will not be drawn into a “flame war” with anyone here. I post this once and only once and have no wish to argue semantics. The main reason I did it is because a lot of forum members here have either got so jaded by reading here or have become so set in the own style of game play that they can’t see the wood for the trees.

My 2 cents,

considering that each one of us has been banned from servers THOUSANDS of times, no its not isolated. it was present on 99% of the servers out there (minus those of us who played ff/so we played on our own servers and were too busy trying to win.

as for your experience i bet 100 rupees that you bow before duels and whine about chatkills.

you know of Marker0077? he got attacked while he was bowing and he turned into a 5 year old that happens to hear one of his parents using a bad word and started cussing out the guy and bitching to everyone on the server.

xmod's admin functions were always a non-issue. only competitive clans used it, and they never used anything other than the kick, ban, and team features.

hell any admin that stopped to do **** like that would be bitched at for not doing his job (what he was supposed to do like escort a capper, whatever) and would get right back to it, and in the future hardly ever do anything with them.

that said i don't think hex should have those commands, but it is up to him and it will have to be a necessary evil on our servers until my team puts our mod out (if we decide to do it). and as for those abusive admins that would use xmod? we would kick-whore their asses to death :cool:

and just a last thing. chosen why don't you have that mod for your academy where it, i assume, is used properly, and release a mod to the public without ANY of those commands, including sleep.

if any of our clans ever had "unruly players" then we would usually beat the **** out of them till they listened, and if not continue doing so or booting them. usually someone getting their ass kicked (legitly not admin ****) over and over tends to calm people down and more willing to listen as they see they aren't "top dawg" or anything.

but hell isn't it so much more fun to stand over them when they have been slept and start questioning their sexuality and that of their lineage and the sexual practices of their little sister?

Prime
12-05-2003, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
a lamer or n00b's attention And there you lost me...

atx250
12-05-2003, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Rumor
considering that each one of us has been banned from servers THOUSANDS of times, no its not isolated. it was present on 99% of the servers out there (minus those of us who played ff/so we played on our own servers and were too busy trying to win.

as for your experience i bet 100 rupees that you bow before duels and whine about chatkills.

you know of Marker0077? he got attacked while he was bowing and he turned into a 5 year old that happens to hear one of his parents using a bad word and started cussing out the guy and bitching to everyone on the server.

xmod's admin functions were always a non-issue. only competitive clans used it, and they never used anything other than the kick, ban, and team features.

hell any admin that stopped to do **** like that would be bitched at for not doing his job (what he was supposed to do like escort a capper, whatever) and would get right back to it, and in the future hardly ever do anything with them.

that said i don't think hex should have those commands, but it is up to him and it will have to be a necessary evil on our servers until my team puts our mod out (if we decide to do it). and as for those abusive admins that would use xmod? we would kick-whore their asses to death :cool:

and just a last thing. chosen why don't you have that mod for your academy where it, i assume, is used properly, and release a mod to the public without ANY of those commands, including sleep.

if any of our clans ever had "unruly players" then we would usually beat the **** out of them till they listened, and if not continue doing so or booting them. usually someone getting their ass kicked (legitly not admin ****) over and over tends to calm people down and more willing to listen as they see they aren't "top dawg" or anything.

but hell isn't it so much more fun to stand over them when they have been slept and start questioning their sexuality and that of their lineage and the sexual practices of their little sister?


656 posts, and you still quoted his whole dam post straight after his post????????


atx250

Ps
Yes i see the irony.

Rumor
12-05-2003, 03:15 PM
n00b's attention

whoa you lost me there

Rumor
12-05-2003, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by atx250
656 posts, and you still quoted his whole dam post straight after his post????????


atx250

Ps
Yes i see the irony.

why wouldn't i?

i am not in the mood to chop it up into little quotes and i don't have the time (gotta get to school)

atx250
12-05-2003, 03:21 PM
Then why quote? Since u posted next to him, we all knew who you were talking to. Dont worry about it, wasnt an attack on you, just that question popped into my head.


(gotta get to school)

Got ya :cool:

Rumor
12-05-2003, 06:14 PM
i hate having to scroll down to see the topic review and i prevent confusion by quoting the post i'm responding to. (aka i'm ****ing lazy ;))

Master William
12-05-2003, 06:24 PM
Here we go again. An admin mod comes out, and the usual x-mod defenders are there to either flame or protect or whatever. Just STFU and leave it alone to whoever dislikes it!

EDIT: Look, I know how annoying it gets when some admin amsleeps you and all that ****. In JK2, I entered a french server. They said ''no laming'', so I said ''ok''. Next thing I know they're all breaking their own rules, so I thought they changed the rules. So I killed them with their sabers off, and what do you know, I'm called a lamer and I am amsleeped. I cussed atleast 20 times before I disconnected.
Still, on every thread like this, you don't need to bring up the same old points you bring in every adminmod thread such as ''a kid got it for his birthday and he wants to play it, but finds himself getting amsleeped and slayed, ruining his experience'' we heard that atleast 10-20 times.
We get the point.

Dracofyre
12-05-2003, 06:37 PM
1.) If you're clan is holding a meeting/practice/whatever, and you can't keep someone quiet during the meeting, then maybe you should rethink if that person should even belong in the clan. A quick yell of "Keep it up and you're going to be banned from the clan!" is a very good way to shut them up. If they don't, then boot their sorry asses. If you actually NEED crap like sleep, and all that other stuff, to maintain order, then you're a piss poor admin/clan leader.

2.) Why is that ONLY JKA needs all that extra crap? There are TONS of servers for a variety of games, and they all seem to do fine with just kick/ban. Once again, the admins don't need **** like the sleep command. What they need to do, is to learn to do their god damn job. If they did that, then we wouldn't really need admin mods of any sort.

3.) Coraith, I'm not sure which JKA YOU play, but it's obviously not the same as ours. The majority of servers for JKA are run by idiot admins, that force their "honor codes" on the players, and abuse their powers. Then again, if I remember right, you are one of those bowing freaks, so you probably never have problems on all these "good" servers. Oh and it's "Can't see the forest for the trees." Just thought I'd let you know.

Kurgan
12-05-2003, 07:07 PM
Kurgan, we can all see you are an intelligent man but judge your replies to other threads including this one and most would come to the conclusion that you don't play the JK games that much and your mistakes in certain threads has show this, therefore all though your arguments carry weight at first its soon becomes apparent that it is all second hand points of view.

Coraith, I respectfully beg to differ. Do people have that impression of me? That I "don't play the game very much" and therefore my arguments "don't carry weight?"

Every game in the series I got on the day it came out (except for DF1) and I played JK/MotS for 3+ years straight. I've been a member of JK.net (in all its many forms) since around November 1997.

I will admit that I more or less only played JK2 sporadically after the release of the last patch, but that was due more to lack of time (school and other activities) than anything else. With JA I started anew, spending just as much time on it as any of the other games, playing it many hours a week. My server runs pretty much 24/7 and has since shortly after the win32 server binaries were publically released. And I don't just play on my server, I also "go pubbing" like many here like to do.

And yes, I have witnessed the "honor n00bie" syndrome and the power mad admin syndrome, and I've been around the block enough to know that it's a problem with (at least) some people and that I don't want to be like that.

Those Strategy sites I have should at least show that I "did my homework." They're not perfect, but they represent at least a fraction of the time and effort I've put into these games. I haven't spent all my time bitching on forums or bragging about my "l33t sk1llz." ; )

It's true that I can't be everywhere at once, I can't play every single player and join every single server, and have a contest with every single clan (which would be pointless since I'm not IN A CLAN MYSELF and that right there disqualifies me from ever expressing an opinion in some people's minds... because if you're not in a clan you're automatically a "n00b" even though that ignores the fact that there are plenty of "n00b" clans and clans with mediocre players in them).

If I was claiming to be the greatest JA player of all time, or that I knew everything there is to know about the game, maybe people could use that against me, but I don't. And I've always been a strong supporter of the "admin of a server gets to make the rules, don't like it, leave" philosophy. However, that doesn't mean I can't point out how the use of abusive mods contributes to bad admin-behavior (which rubs off on players and leads to people making angry rants on here against honor codes and admin mods).

So honestly I don't see your big problem with my opinions. My opinions are my opinions based on my experience (just like I assume your's are... you decided what you believe based on what happened to you, rather than what your clan told you).

That's all. If you have different experiences fine. You may even have different opinons (gasp!), but don't expect me to agree with every single one of them. ; )

Where was I shown to be wrong? What "mistakes" are you referring to?

Or is this another veiled reference to the "FF Sabers Only CTF" elites and their demands for a kick patch for JA?


So your innendo that I don't know anything because I'm a n00b falls flat. Next time at least try to provide some evidence before you bash me for no reason.

Dracofyre
12-05-2003, 07:10 PM
:D
/me waves the Go Kurgan flag

Rad Blackrose
12-05-2003, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by Coraith
Well FK | unnamed, it would appear that you managed to play on all the "worst" servers in JO for admin abuse and avoided all the good ones, this is the only way you would have come by such a "dismal" view of the JK community at large.


-Image removed due to mod PM-

Maybe you should pull your head out of your ass and come to realize that admin mods WERE abused across the boards, and a good majority of that came from OmniMod/Jedi Academy mod servers.

We shouldn't have to bring back the abuse threads from the JKII forums just to show how much **** is given to people who just want to play the damn game.

Kurgan, we can all see you are an intelligent man but judge your replies to other threads including this one and most would come to the conclusion that you don't play the JK games that much and your mistakes in certain threads has show this, therefore all though your arguments carry weight at first its soon becomes apparent that it is all second hand points of view.

Considering the fact that he runs a server, and also plays on it (been there, done that, whooped his ass by the way), secondhand my ass.

The only thing he would have second hand knowledge of is the clan scene, and xmod. That's it.

Here are some "facts" from my extensive experience with JO and the Admin mod created by ChoosenOne here.

On average 8 out of 10 servers that I personally played on regularly used JA Admin mod. On average 7 out of 8 ran the mod without abuse.

See picture above.

The majority of dedicated server owners are adults, manly because most parents would not pay 30-50 dollars a month for their Childs game. Therefore most servers are run by mature people who have no interest in "power" over other gamers and just wish to have the rules followed, as is their right as the bill payer. Now that’s a fact I know through my own experience with other various server owners/various clans.

Just because the server operator pays for the server does not mean that he's going to have extra "help" on hand, meaning he's going to give a bunch of bitter, pissy children the /ampass and let them run rampant. And when their admin access IS revoked (which I have NEVER seen occur even in a ****storm), they bawl like a bunch of babies.

This was the standard on most servers I played on in JO, fact. If not exactly like this is was something very similar. Warnings then kicked, a simple yet fair system.

List of servers please, since I know you're full of ****.

If I purchase a dedicated server again I want to know that I can deal with players that won't follow my rules. This is my right as the server owner. If there is a mod out there that works better than Rcon then that’s better for a server owner and the regulars that play there and follow the rules.

Read uj's reply on rcon usage, especially since it can be used in and out of server.

RL example,
The police carry night sticks and mace, should we campaign to have all their weapons removed because one or two slap happy cops maybe a bit over zealous with said weapons?

Think about those cops that are in trouble right now for excessive use of force. Note the word EXCESSIVE. Admin mods create abusable situations because the punishments administered are EXCESSIVE. A simple verbal warning/kick is enough to get the job done, with a ban following if he decides to come back and break it again.

Following this simple rule I remained un-banned from any server and only managed to get myself kicked once.

Hi, I'm Rad Blackrose, Anti-Saberist Code. I come on to servers, kick ass, get banned from servers, press my reset button to be unbanned, come back, beat your asses some more, rinse, lather, repeat.

You may push me around,
but you cannot win.
You may throw me down,
but I will rise again.
The more you say,
the more I defy you.
So get out of my face...

Now this may make me look a little sad but I played JO to death, every day for about 8 months and on hundreds of servers. This proves to me that if you follow the rules of the server you don't get admin abused. Fact, through personal experience.

Excuse me while I die of laughter for a bit.

I'm not going to bother quoting the rest of this post, because most if this is not factual, but instead contradictory to what occured on JKII servers and is a waste of my time to bother to reply to. It sounds like the typical "but my server wasn't like that!" post.

I want the last ten minutes of my life back, due to reading then replying to your piece of refuse you call a well articulated and "factual" post.

The facts are:
1.) On every server that administrated with an admin mod, people who were not qualified to be using said mods had access to use them anyways.
2.) Excessive use of commands in order for an administrator to be at the top when in fact his skill level was piddly **** created an abusive atmosphere with a monkey see, monkey do outlook.
3.) Admin mods breed chatrooms, the antithesis to what the game is: an FPS with melee combat orientated processes in a third person overview.
4.) Creators of mods refused to remove said commands in JKII for the fact that their mod would lose popularity, and thus the mod creator would lose popularity. So if you think about this, it is one big pissing match for these people.
5.) Master William, you came to our thread and decided to stir the pot. Now we're here. Retaliation following a pathetic pre-emptive strike. GG

Kurgan
12-05-2003, 07:21 PM
Considering the fact that he runs a server, and also plays on it (been there, done that, whooped his ass by the way), secondhand my ass.

The only thing he would have second hand knowledge of is the clan scene, and xmod. That's it.

Thank you.

Leebs
12-05-2003, 07:48 PM
I remember in the xmod thread the competitive players were telling the honor players to get out off of their thread due to them continuously causing confrontation.

This is like deja vu....but vice versa :rolleyes:

TK-8252
12-05-2003, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
A simple verbal warning/kick is enough to get the job done, with a ban following if he decides to come back and break it again. Incorrect.

If you were an admin at an "honor code" server, you'd understand.

Using the police example, consider this:

If the cop had to resort to simply telling a criminal not to do something, would the cops really get the criminal to stop?

*guy robs a bank*

Cop says: Hey you! Don't do that! Give that money back!
Criminal says: STFU

*cop runs after the criminal*

*criminal shoots the cop*

Well that worked good, huh? :roleyess:

And, you really can't ban people using rcon. You can only ban a couple people before you have to clear the bans and start over.

Also, rcon is not reliable at all. The JK3Files server admin called Atlas has a bug in his /rcon status which only lets him see a couple or no people. Which means anyone with a space in their name could not be kicked or banned.

g//plaZma
12-05-2003, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
Incorrect.

If you were an admin at an "honor code" server, you'd understand.

Using the police example, consider this:

If the cop had to resort to simply telling a criminal not to do something, would the cops really get the criminal to stop?

*guy robs a bank*

Cop says: Hey you! Don't do that! Give that money back!
Criminal says: STFU

*cop runs after the criminal*

*criminal shoots the cop*

Well that worked good, huh? :rolleyes:

And, you really can't ban people using rcon. You can only ban a couple people before you have to clear the bans and start over.

Also, rcon is not reliable at all. The JK3Files server admin called Atlas has a bug in his /rcon status which only lets him see a couple or no people. Which means anyone with a space in their name could not be kicked or banned.

The thing you need to see, TK is that this is a video game and something as extreme as bank robbery is not relevant at all.

A simple warning/kick/ban/silence would do the trick. I mean what's this "lamer" going to do? Kill your player model? Who really cares? It doesn't do perm. damage or anything. Just kick/ban him after or sit there and cry. What we call the 12 yr old admins are the guys who see someone kill someone else (oh noz! pplz lievs are at stake!!!!) they immidiately pull out the /ampunish. A kick is sufficiant and doesn't waste anyones time.

It's not like the "lamer" will pull out a ban gun on the admin and ban him from his own server. It just doesn't work that way.

Master William
12-05-2003, 09:59 PM
I understand how it is being an admin at those servers. I am an admin at the public gameservers.net servers, and heck do I get tired of telling people the same thing. Retards run around breaking the server rules, totally ignoring my damn spammage of the rules (I have to spam if they don't stop it), and I end up warning them 2-3 times. They don't seem to give a ****, so I kick them. They come back asking why they were kicked. I explain that he/she must follow the server rules, or get kicked. He/she starts cussing, and disconnects.

But hey, even if you wrote it in the sky with smoke, they wouldn't understand it, because they would rather scratch their asses instead of looking up.

TK-8252
12-05-2003, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by Master William
I understand how it is being an admin at those servers. I am an admin at the public gameservers.net servers, and heck do I get tired of telling people the same thing. Retards run around breaking the server rules, totally ignoring my damn spammage of the rules (I have to spam if they don't stop it), and I end up warning them 2-3 times. They don't seem to give a ****, so I kick them. They come back asking why they were kicked. I explain that he/she must follow the server rules, or get kicked. He/she starts cussing, and disconnects. Exactly.

And kicking someone from the server is supposed to be the last resort. Sleeping someone gives the admin an opportunity to explain the rules so that they are not broken again. Therefore there is little or no confusion and no need for a kick.

Although, just because someone breaks the rules they are "retarded" is not true.

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-06-2003, 12:00 AM
TK and Master William, please send all those "lamers" to my servers.

I will welcome them with open arms:amidala:

Rumor
12-06-2003, 02:03 AM
anyone that gets pissed at kurgan's posting of things regarding mods and whatnot remember this:

he always plays the devils advocate and argues for the other side to give you their perspective.

Rumor
12-06-2003, 02:07 AM
Originally posted by Leebs
I remember in the xmod thread the competitive players were telling the honor players to get out off of their thread due to them continuously causing confrontation.

This is like deja vu....but vice versa :rolleyes:
negatory.

they were derailing a thread where we were talking about a specific thing for specific people.

if they want to debate with us then they can make a thread about it instead of invading everything and either flame baiting or flaming outright.

TK-8252
12-06-2003, 03:40 AM
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
I will welcome them with open arms:amidala: That's what I like about your disruption server, Amidala. No one even complains about laming. :)

Although there is the occasional chat kill whiner. :(

Complaining about chat kills in team games is so... stupid.

I never hesitate to chat kill in a team game.

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-06-2003, 05:30 AM
I saw you on there tonight. There was a good reason there was no complaining about laming: most of the time you were there, most of the other players were bots:amidala:

142:53 Exit: Timelimit hit.
142:53 score: 77 ping: 55 client: 0 ^7[^4LC^7] TK-8252
142:53 score: 30 ping: 53 client: 1 ^1Dark^3Jedi
142:53 score: 11 ping: 0 client: 7 ^7PooperScooper
142:53 score: 10 ping: 0 client: 5 ^3!^1Peligrosso^3!
142:53 score: 9 ping: 0 client: 6 Billy-Boba Fett
142:53 score: 3 ping: 0 client: 4 ^1Scorpion
142:57 say: ^1Dark^3Jedi: gg
142:57 say: ^7[^4LC^7] TK-8252: bye bye
142:59 say: ^7[^4LC^7] TK-8252: gg
142:59 ShutdownGame:

My bots may whine ("laaag!" "i hate bots!") but they never complain about "laming". Bots may be stupid, but they are smart enough not to complain about something that doesn't exist (on my servers).

Master William
12-06-2003, 06:39 AM
Amidala, your servers sound like very nice servers, but I prefer to stay away from american servers, because they give me atleast 150 ping, and I hate lag. If I ever get a better connection, I might pay you a visit.

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-06-2003, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by Master William
Amidala, your servers sound like very nice servers, but I prefer to stay away from american servers, because they give me atleast 150 ping, and I hate lag. If I ever get a better connection, I might pay you a visit.

Thank you Master William, I would be very happy to have you visit :amidala:

You are right about ping, and due to the realities of geography, your ping will be higher. That is especially a disadvantage on the Disruption instagib server, where ping is king. Look above at TK's ping (55) and Dark Jedi's (53). They will have an advantage in that game. It's not as critical in non-instagib play. I know you are in Sweden. I have at least a couple of regulars from Finland, and one of them, IceStorm, is one of the top Chop Shop players, despite his ping usually running over 200.

TK-8252
12-06-2003, 04:25 PM
Those bots were so easy it was pathetic. ;)

I knew that they were bots, because they had 0 ping. But I meant back in JK2, when the server was full of real people.

I couldn't find your disruption server in the master list thing, just the saber servers. I had to put in the IP, is that why no one goes there yet?

FK | unnamed
12-06-2003, 05:34 PM
I know you honor nerds want your perfect little structured Jedi fantasy worlds but the thing you always fail to forget is....

These are people you are dealing with on your servers, not bots, not actors in a star wars movie.

Some people just want to play a game.
If don't want game players on your servers, lock them and give the password to your regulars.


But letting the general public in and then pinning them to the ground with sleep commands (for the crime of playing the game) and then proceeding to tower over them and lecture them like children or demean them with insults is just a little fantasy Jedi power trip for you people and you damn well know it.

TK-8252
12-06-2003, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
fail to forget That means we remember. We remember that we are dealing with real people. Not bots, not Star Wars actors...

If we lock servers, how do new people get in? If someone is new to the game and wants to play with an honor code and all the honor servers are locked... how does he get in? He's forced to play with the big boys in the fight servers. And if your server you're a regular at is full, and you don't want to fight in a server, I guess you don't get to play.

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-07-2003, 01:15 AM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
I couldn't find your disruption server in the master list thing, just the saber servers. I had to put in the IP, is that why no one goes there yet?

It shows up in mine. Make sure the ingame browser has Game: All and Type: N\A.

zERoCooL2479
12-10-2003, 09:50 PM
1.1 released in three different versions.

1) Win32 .zip file
2) Linux tar.gx file
3) Windows Installer

choose which one you want.
Enjoy!

_PerfectAgent_
12-10-2003, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
If we lock servers, how do new people get in? If someone is new to the game and wants to play with an honor code and all the honor servers are locked... how does he get in?
If they were new to the game, they really wouldn't know about "honor code."

He's forced to play with the big boys in the fight servers.
Sure, why not? That's how I started JK2. (The 1.02 days)

And if your server you're a regular at is full, and you don't want to fight in a server, I guess you don't get to play.
If I didn't want to fight, I'd use an instant messenger program and surf the web.

TK-8252
12-10-2003, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by _PerfectAgent_
If they were new to the game, they really wouldn't know about "honor code." Not true.

Originally posted by _PerfectAgent_
If I didn't want to fight, I'd use an instant messenger program and surf the web. Hmm, well that's just you isn't it?

FK | unnamed
12-11-2003, 12:15 AM
bowing is gay.

TK-8252
12-11-2003, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
bowing is gay. Well that was random. :eek:

_PerfectAgent_
12-11-2003, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
Well that was random. :eek:
I concur. Well, it was very straight to the point... I guess....:toilet1:

g//plaZma
12-11-2003, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
Not true.

How so? No other game besides JK2 had an honor code.

Hmm, well that's just you isn't it?

Most people actually, a game seems to be impractical to use as a chat client.

TK-8252
12-11-2003, 01:15 AM
Originally posted by g//plaZma
How so? No other game besides JK2 had an honor code. Who knows? Maybe they've been reading on forums and stuff like that and want to play in a more "structured" environment. Jedi Outcast/Academy isn't like most other games now are they?

Originally posted by g//plaZma
Most people actually, a game seems to be impractical to use as a chat client. True that the game was not meant to be a chat program. But if it weren't for the chat feature I would never be where I am today... in clan [LC], and an admin at JK3Files. Heck, there wouldn't be any clans at all.

_PerfectAgent_
12-11-2003, 01:26 AM
Who's "they?" And the environment is structured enough through the way the game was made already. Oh and about the chat thing, I think he meant about the abuse of chat, not the simple use of it (not saying you do so or anything like that).

TK-8252
12-11-2003, 01:32 AM
If you were following the discussion you'd know who "they" are. :p

g//plaZma
12-11-2003, 02:17 AM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
Who knows? Maybe they've been reading on forums and stuff like that and want to play in a more "structured" environment. Jedi Outcast/Academy isn't like most other games now are they?

Are you telling me every newcomer has been reading forums and stuff about honor?

True that the game was not meant to be a chat program. But if it weren't for the chat feature I would never be where I am today... in clan [LC], and an admin at JK3Files. Heck, there wouldn't be any clans at all.

You know damn well what I mean. The game has a chat option, true but the most I've ever chatted at once was just a few words. Knowing how to use the chat button didn't exactly get me in any clans.

TK-8252
12-11-2003, 02:39 AM
Originally posted by g//plaZma
Are you telling me every newcomer has been reading forums and stuff about honor? Nope. But who says all n00bs just JUMP right into the game without a little research first? I know I read up a little before jumping in...

Originally posted by g//plaZma
You know damn well what I mean. The game has a chat option, true but the most I've ever chatted at once was just a few words. Knowing how to use the chat button didn't exactly get me in any clans. Aren't you in the g// clan or something?

Kurgan
12-11-2003, 04:48 AM
I think Xmod2's approach to "honor" is so far the best I've seen in a mod yet.

You'll see in the next version....

TK-8252
12-11-2003, 07:39 PM
Last I heard, Xmod was still keeping the admin abuse commands. As far as I know, JAR is still the only mod which has removed the abuse commands. Although I like the language filter in one of these mods... was it Xmod?

I'm praying that cHoSeN oNe will be adding a server setting which allows a player to keep their saber turned on in a Force grip.

Master William
12-11-2003, 08:54 PM
Who cares about the ''amlaming'' and abuse? Isn't it worse to get kicked or banned or both at the same time rather than getting sleeped and slayed?

Also a funny thing -- I got bankicked from a server yesterday before I even entered it. :o

Kurgan
12-11-2003, 08:58 PM
Nope. But who says all n00bs just JUMP right into the game without a little research first? I know I read up a little before jumping in...

If you look at the sales figures for JK2 and then look at the membership numbers for LucasForums you'll see a HUGE disparity.

If even half of the million+ people who bought JK2 play multiplayer, that means that the majority of them have never posted on these forums!

I run into tons of people who haven't even read the manual, much less heard of this site!

The "honor" code is made-up, and you can only learn about it from talking to other people who believe in it (a minority) or reading a forum where people talk about it.

The "honor code" is like an inside joke. Not funny unless you've heard the joke and understand it from somebody in the know.


Personally I think the honor codes are an insult to the game and the hard work the developers put into it.

Actually, I've heard of an "honor code" existing in Heretic II (melee combat + magic game made by Raven many years ago on the Quake II engine, which I never played). Heretic II from what I hear got great reviews, but mediocre sales. Due to poor marketing it never achieved the glory it deserved.

It had an "honor code" because people wanted to duel without interference and apparently the game wasn't setup by default to allow this.

The thing is, JK2 and JA are already setup to allow dueling without interferance (unlike say the original Jedi Knight). Thus "honor codes" are really unnecessary.

They were created because people wanted to take 1% of the gameplay and do only that, most likely because they couldn't be bothered to learn to adapt to the complex tactics needed to win in a battle with all weapons and powers enabled.

The folks who promote honor codes as the greatest thing since sliced bread are the same people you hear saying "OMG ABSORB IS CHEAP!" "GRIP IS UNSTOPPABLE!" "QUIT SPAMMING!" "Taht wuz LAME! YOU CHEATER!" "U scripter KICK HIM!" and other familiar cries of the whiner.

The "bowing" thing probably was to signal you were ready for a duel, but it's nonesensical because in a Saber Challenge the game already says "Begin!" and ignites both your sabers. What more signal do you need that you're "ready"?

And why do you have to show "respect" to a total stranger you're playing an online game with (99.99999% of people don't even use their real names as handles)? Isn't respect earned?

This isn't Kendo or Fencing, this is a video game (First Person Shooter) about fragging people using Star Wars weapons!

It's not even part of Star Wars to bow before a duel, or to "show honor." Just watch the films again and you'll see how the movie Jedi/Sith MISERABLY FAIL to live up to the honor codes these guys in the community claim to follow like the Gospel Truth.

It's silly.


TK8252MJL: In the "Criticis Corner" forum and on these forums Hex made comments that he was going to remove the abusive admin commands in the next version.

He invited me to a private beta test on his server last night as well, and we talked for a bit while testing some things for the next release. Again, he said he was going to remove the abusive admin commands.

Trust me on this, he's come around, he's implementing MUCH BETTER SOLUTIONS that will allow you to enforce your made-up honor codes all you want, WITHOUT resorting to the stupid pointless abuse-prone commands like amslap/slay/punish.

So sure, until that version is actually released, JA Reloaded is the only non-abusive Admin Mod for JA. But not for long...

That leaves only JA+ and OmNi Mod that still promote AMlaming. Maybe somebody should talk to them about improving their mods. I think that Xmod2 will pave the way for how these mods OUGHT to be done. The old ways never worked, people need to learn from their mistakes and move on.

Kurgan
12-11-2003, 09:02 PM
And just in case you don't believe I was there (see attachment):

SpecialForces
12-11-2003, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
So your innendo that I don't know anything because I'm a n00b falls flat. Next time at least try to provide some evidence before you bash me for no reason. [/B]

Kurgan kicks butt. ;)

g//plaZma
12-11-2003, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
Nope. But who says all n00bs just JUMP right into the game without a little research first? I know I read up a little before jumping in...

I do research about gameplay dynamics before I jump into games (Except new releases). Back when I started playing JK2, I did research on the moves, weapons, etc before playing but as I found out later, most of the moves possible to do in the game weren't even discovered/widely known. And much to my horror, there was an honor code not even talked about in the manual or any sites.

Aren't you in the g// clan or something?

No, /<aoticz actually but that has nothing to do with this.

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-11-2003, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
Although I like the language filter in one of these mods... was it Xmod?

I'm praying that cHoSeN oNe will be adding a server setting which allows a player to keep their saber turned on in a Force grip.

xMod 2.1.0 has both of those features already. And the abusive commands are likely to be on the way out.

TK-8252
12-11-2003, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
Personally I think the honor codes are an insult to the game and the hard work the developers put into it. How so? It just shows that people love their game so much that they take the game to the next level...

Originally posted by Kurgan
They were created because people wanted to take 1% of the gameplay and do only that, most likely because they couldn't be bothered to learn to adapt to the complex tactics needed to win in a battle with all weapons and powers enabled. We do our share of FFAing. Yes, REAL FFA. We use a code of conduct so other people can play at their own pace. Not forced to join the fight or die.

Originally posted by Kurgan
The folks who promote honor codes as the greatest thing since sliced bread are the same people you hear saying "OMG ABSORB IS CHEAP!" "GRIP IS UNSTOPPABLE!" "QUIT SPAMMING!" "Taht wuz LAME! YOU CHEATER!" "U scripter KICK HIM!" and other familiar cries of the whiner. I've never said any of these things in my life, nor has many other honor players.

Originally posted by Kurgan
The "bowing" thing probably was to signal you were ready for a duel, but it's nonesensical because in a Saber Challenge the game already says "Begin!" and ignites both your sabers. What more signal do you need that you're "ready"? Begin means start, not ready. I don't let my computer speak for me.

Originally posted by Kurgan
And why do you have to show "respect" to a total stranger you're playing an online game with (99.99999% of people don't even use their real names as handles)? Isn't respect earned? Well if your opponent is going to take 2 seconds out of the duel to bow to me, why not just bow back? Return respect for respect.

Originally posted by Kurgan
It's not even part of Star Wars to bow before a duel, or to "show honor." Just watch the films again and you'll see how the movie Jedi/Sith MISERABLY FAIL to live up to the honor codes these guys in the community claim to follow like the Gospel Truth. This is a multiplayer video game, not a movie. As the manual says:

Remember, you're playing with other people.

Originally posted by Kurgan
TK8252MJL Call me TK. :)

Originally posted by Kurgan
In the "Criticis Corner" forum and on these forums Hex made comments that he was going to remove the abusive admin commands in the next version. Cool! That's some good news.

Originally posted by Kurgan
Trust me on this, he's come around, he's implementing MUCH BETTER SOLUTIONS that will allow you to enforce your made-up honor codes all you want, WITHOUT resorting to the stupid pointless abuse-prone commands like amslap/slay/punish. I never would think of using these commands on anyone but myself, my friends, or bots. Don't assume that all honor folks are 12 year old power tripping ass****s...

g//plaZma
12-11-2003, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
How so? It just shows that people love their game so much that they take the game to the next level...

What? Standing around and chatting is taking the game to the next level?

We do our share of FFAing. Yes, REAL FFA. We use a code of conduct so other people can play at their own pace. Not forced to join the fight or die.

I've seen honor FFA. It consists of combat inclosed in a small area where many people who have no idea what they are doing swing their sabers around randomly, hoping to hit someone while randomly switching force powers on and off.

Uh... If someone can't take the fact that they died, shouldn't they be 1) not playing the game at all or 2) in spec mode?

I've never said any of these things in my life, nor has many other honor players.

I've seen those quotes said many times actually, all by honor players or friends of mine (and myself) making fun of honor players.

Begin means start, not ready. I don't let my computer speak for me.

Neither do I or most other people but when it says "begin" I damn well better be ready or my turn might as well be given up. Making people wait is rude.

Well if your opponent is going to take 2 seconds out of the duel to bow to me, why not just bow back? Return respect for respect.

I don't give my respect out just like that.

It doesn't seem to be based on respect, which is why I use the term "honor" very loosely. Bowing seems more like a ritual that most players seem to think is necessary or the game cannot go on, and it's implanted so deep in their heads that duels cannot start without bowing that they cannot start a duel without it. I base this off the fact that I've gotten a lot of honor players mad and cursing at me but whenever I'd duel them, they'd bow and after the fight continue cursing/calling me a "lamer."

This is a multiplayer video game, not a movie. As the manual says:

I think Kurgan was trying to point on that most honor players are deeply into StarWars and seem to think that not bowing would make this not StarWars-like.

Rumor
12-11-2003, 11:01 PM
you shouldn't saber challenge if you aren't ready. you shouldn't come out of the spectator mode if you aren't ready and willing to fight.

Rumor
12-11-2003, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
Nope. But who says all n00bs just JUMP right into the game without a little research first? I know I read up a little before jumping in...

Aren't you in the g// clan or something?

we used to be. we didn't get in it by chatting that is for sure.

and we had the most popular ffa/tffa server before we switched it over to JA and later shut it down. why? we didn't allow any references to laming, honor codes, or bowing. the server was packed 24/7. another reason why? there were only 7/8 servers out there that allowed this type of ffa/tffa types of play. if that many. real ctf servers never had a real problem with honor nubs.

AxVegetA
12-12-2003, 05:13 AM
Rumor wtf, i am waiting for the challenge.

Rumor
12-12-2003, 06:04 AM
Originally posted by Rumor
We challenged you months ago. You never responded.

Kurgan
12-12-2003, 08:06 AM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
How so? It just shows that people love their game so much that they take the game to the next level...

What about the people who love the game so much they practice and get good at it, not just one small aspect of it (NF saber fighting) but the whole thing? Are their desires worthless or inferior?

"Honor" in JA/JK2 is the equivalent of paring down the game of Football (American for you soccer fans) to "playing catch."

Playing catch can be quite fun and relaxing, however it is intended as a training mechanism to improve your skills that are applicable in the real game.

The same is true for saber challenge dueling. It's applicable as training your saber fighting skills for use in other game types.

Granted though there is a gametype that features ONLY dueling, and that's... Duel.

The trouble is the "Honor" folks are taking one bonus feature of FFA (the saber challenge) and eliminating all other aspects of the game in favor of this feature, then heaping derision on the rest fo the community who isn't so (for lack of a better term) "narrow minded."

It's not taking it to the next level, it's taking it DOWN several notches.

The people who "take it to the next level" would be the tournament winners, the CPL pros and that sort of thing.

I suppose in a different way the RPG players might be taking it to a new level, but one that the developers of the game never intended....

We do our share of FFAing. Yes, REAL FFA. We use a code of conduct so other people can play at their own pace. Not forced to join the fight or die.

Hey, that's cool. At least you admit there are other legitimate ways to play rather than the "honor or nothing" attitude exhibited by far too many "h0n0r d00dz."

I've never said any of these things in my life, nor has many other honor players.

Good, because the large number that do say these things give the general impression that "h0n0r d00dz" are a bunch of self-righteous sore-losers who want to force their beliefs on everyone else. ; p

That's why many of us cringe when we hear somebody mention "honor" and "JA" or "JK2" in the same sentence.

Begin means start, not ready. I don't let my computer speak for me.

When the gun goes off the race has begun. Nobody cares if you're not ready... YOU LOSE! The other guys are racing.

The flag goes down and everybody sets off. If you just stand there like an idiot, well, you just screwed up, better luck next time.

In a friendly pickup game, it's just rude and annoying not to be ready at the start like everyone else.

As a participant in a competition (yes, a Duel is a competition, by definition!), it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO BE READY when the game tells you to start.

Besides, there is a delay of what.. 2 seconds between the time the other person accepts and you can actually start fighting? That's adequate time to get "ready." What do you need to do that's so important before the duel? If your controls aren't set, don't challenge the person until that part is completed, don't be rude wasting their time. Or just suck it up and fight, and when you die, fix it then.

If bowing is simply tapping the crouch key, that takes what.. 1/5 a second? It's not like you need to elaborately waste time then wait for them to do it. Just fight already...

It's bad enough having to wait in line for Duels, but when you have to spend time with all these elaborate rituals it just gets even more silly (doesn't matter if you're the only people on the server of course).


Well if your opponent is going to take 2 seconds out of the duel to bow to me, why not just bow back? Return respect for respect.


Yeah, but the "h0n0r d00dz" always want you to bow first and they assume if you don't bow that you're a "lamer" and try to get you kicked or gang up on you. ; p

If he wants to bow to me fine, but why do I have to bow to him? Maybe I don't care about respect in a video game. He can show me respect by beating me, not by aiming his mouse downward or tapping the crouch key.


I never would think of using these commands on anyone but myself, my friends, or bots. Don't assume that all honor folks are 12 year old power tripping ass****s...

No, but the ones that abuse these commands tend to conjure up that image in our minds.

They may not really all be bratty 12 year old's, but they have the same maturity level. ; p

The commands are too much of a temptation for people, that's why they should be taken out or reserved for a "cheats mode" (like devmap). The fact is too many admins can't handle them in a responsible manner.

And since we have no way to screen out the bad admins (there's no age restriction, background checks, etc for people wanting to host servers or give out subadmin positions)... it's much easier just not to give them these powers in the first place.

Rumor
12-12-2003, 02:05 PM
actually the whole concept of the challenge is for when a leading player wants to see if he is better than another. its not meant to be used constantly. think of it as a "score settler"

Prime
12-12-2003, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
...never said any of these things in my life, nor has many other honor players. I respectfully could not disagree more strongly.

FK | unnamed
12-12-2003, 06:07 PM
bowing is still gay.

g//plaZma
12-12-2003, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
bowing is still gay.

Kurgan
12-12-2003, 06:34 PM
actually the whole concept of the challenge is for when a leading player wants to see if he is better than another. its not meant to be used constantly. think of it as a "score settler"

Conceded. I should have said "duels in general" (ie: the dueling gametype).

TK-8252
12-12-2003, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
Granted though there is a gametype that features ONLY dueling, and that's... Duel. Great thing about FFA mode... you can have MULTIPLE people dueling, and you are able to move freely around the map and engage in a real FFA, RPing, or private chats.

Originally posted by Kurgan
I suppose in a different way the RPG players might be taking it to a new level, but one that the developers of the game never intended.... RPers have imagination. Anything wrong with that? They can think outside of the game.

Originally posted by Kurgan
When the gun goes off the race has begun. Nobody cares if you're not ready... YOU LOSE! The other guys are racing. This is a video game... not a professional sporting event.

Originally posted by Kurgan
The flag goes down and everybody sets off. If you just stand there like an idiot, well, you just screwed up, better luck next time. Not if everyone else just stands there "like an idiot".

Originally posted by Kurgan
In a friendly pickup game, it's just rude and annoying not to be ready at the start like everyone else. Bowing is rude? :confused:

Originally posted by Kurgan
It's bad enough having to wait in line for Duels, but when you have to spend time with all these elaborate rituals it just gets even more silly (doesn't matter if you're the only people on the server of course). This is one of the things the admin mods are for! Multiple duels at once! And waiting in line to duel in the duel gamemode is another reason why the "honor style" servers set up an FFA, not duel mode.

Originally posted by Kurgan
Yeah, but the "h0n0r d00dz" always want you to bow first and they assume if you don't bow that you're a "lamer" and try to get you kicked or gang up on you. ; p Not where I play...

Originally posted by Kurgan
If he wants to bow to me fine, but why do I have to bow to him? You don't have to (where I play, at least).

Originally posted by Kurgan
They may not really all be bratty 12 year old's, but they have the same maturity level. ; p I know that AmosMagee, M. Chrono, and ShroomDuck don't act like 12 year old brats, that's for sure.

Originally posted by Kurgan
The fact is too many admins can't handle them in a responsible manner. True. And it's pretty sad, really. :disaprove

Originally posted by Kurgan
it's much easier just not to give them these powers in the first place. Well if no one comes to their server due to abuse, maybe they'll get the idea. Boycotts have worked before, and they'll work now!

Originally posted by FK | unnamed
bowing is still gay. You have a right to your opinion, but why must it be expressed with vulgar language? It just shows that you cannot find proper adjectives to describe your feelings towards something.

Rumor
12-12-2003, 08:35 PM
key phrase: outside of the game

Kurgan
12-12-2003, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL Great thing about FFA mode... you can have MULTIPLE people dueling, and you are able to move freely around the map and engage in a real FFA, RPing, or private chats.


That's perfectly valid, however, it's chaos if everybody is doing something differnet. That's why the game is normally setup so that the majority of people are actually playing (FFA), with maybe one or two people spectating (to chat) and one pair of people "dueling" (saber challenge).

Server's that try to be a RPG-room, chatroom, dueling room AND FFA all at once follow the age-old saying... "jack of all trades.. master of none."

Can you say "lag"? I knew you could. Besides, it's inevitable that those RPGers, chatters, duelists and FFAers are going to get in each other's way and then you'll have whining, cussing and call-vote kicking. ; p

Better to have a specialized server that supports one type of gameplay.

RPers have imagination. Anything wrong with that? They can think outside of the game.

LARPING in a first person shooter is a bad idea. Why? Because the game is not setup or intended for that kind of use. Take it to a place suited to role playing, such as an RPG newgroup, chatroom or actual LARP. Or maybe even an RPG online game (there are dozens out there, even ones that are... gasp! free!). There's even Star Wars role playing games!

And are you saying that non-RPG players lack imagination?

Frankly, imagination or lack thereof has nothing to do with it. It's that the game was made for people to FIGHT and BATTLE in, and that's what the majority of people seek to do and want to do. The few RPGers and "h0n0r d00dz" just get in the way.

If they want to do it on their own private specialized servers, fine, but they have this attitude that the worlds owes them and they need to convert the world to their style of "play."


This is a video game... not a professional sporting event.


This is a first person shooter, not a LARP.
This is a video game, not IRC.
This is about defeating your enemies to score points, not show who is more "honorable."

And with things like CPL and large organized tournaments, you can make it a "professional sporting event."

Or are you going to assert that only RPG players and "h0n0r d00dz" are in it to have fun? For most online gamers competition = fun!

Bowing is rude? :confused:

In a manner of speaking, yes, yes it is.

When you're waiting in line for a duel, you expect the people ahead of you to play, and get their battle over with so you can have your turn. It's common courtesy. If they waste time chatting, bowing and doing elaborate rituals (ie: anything other than fighting) their wasting YOUR TIME.

You may like to wait while they do all this extra stuff that has no effect on the battle whatsoever, but most people don't.

You have to wait long enough as it is, without all this gabbing and crouch button tapping or people whining that they're "not ready" and that they were "lamed" and therefore deserve another chance (again while everyone else waits).

This is one of the things the admin mods are for! Multiple duels at once! And waiting in line to duel in the duel gamemode is another reason why the "honor style" servers set up an FFA, not duel mode.

The trouble is people (mis)use FFA as a dueling server, and they wait in line for saber challenges. It's just like a Dueling server only laggier (since you have to render all those bodies with their sabers off and the glowy shaders around the duelists, plus the fact that FFA maps are much bigger and more complex than Duel maps, which are just arenas meant for 2-3 people to fight in).

The "multi duel allowed in FFA" option is fine. I can see how that would save waiting in line, however the majority of "honor" servers don't seem to take advantage of this. Instead they make rules that you have to "wait in line" to fight. Also, multi-duels may be a fun feature, but that doesn't mean you also need amLaming or even an "honor code" does it?

I do saber challenges all the time on my server, and I don't acknowledge any "honor codes" nor do I employ any admin mods.

Somehow I don't need those crutches and artificial rules to enjoy this bonus feature. Strange that some people insist they need them...?

In fact, multiple duels don't even require an admin mod. You could just make a mod with multi duels as a feature all by itself.

You act as if Amlaming, honor codes and Multiduels are an essential part of Admin Mods. They aren't and don't have to be.

I know that AmosMagee, M. Chrono, and ShroomDuck don't act like 12 year old brats, that's for sure.

And yet, with few exceptions, the experiences of people on these forums have been overwhelmingly negative on Admin Mods that employ amlaming commands both in JK2 and JA.

Maybe some people are masochists and like this sort of thing?

My thing is that if a "good admin" doesn't employ Amlaming, then what's the point of having those commands in the first place?

And I know of admins who shun both honor codes and amlaming, so what's the point?

The point is that Admin Mods and AmLaming are ADDICTIVE. Thus, like other addictive substances with potentially harmful effects, their use by children should be regulated.

Thus it's the responsibility of the community members to let Admin Mod authors know that these sorts of things (amlaming) have no place in the community, they simply aren't welcome.

And it's the Admin Mod authors's reponsibility to make sure they don't put in easily abusable commands and they keep their source code private to prevent ignorant people from ripping off their code, putting in abusive commands and then releasing them for 12 year old maturity-level admins to abuse.


Well if no one comes to their server due to abuse, maybe they'll get the idea. Boycotts have worked before, and they'll work now!

Sure, but the root of the problem is that Admin Mod Authors don't realize the harm their mods cause.

Rather than letting them proliferate unchecked and then try to shame a few admins into not using them, it makes more sense to convince Mod Authors that amlaming and other abuse is unacceptable.

Do you see what I'm getting at?

It's silly to give machineguns to kids and then assume that they'll all be good if we just scold them enough. Better not to give them the machineguns in the first place.

Admin Mod Authors won't stop the problem of "honor," but they can help put a stop to the problem of amlaming and other blatant Admin Abuse.

They say the best way to fight ignorance is with knowledge. So help spread the word of the destructive influence of "honor" and "amlaming" and help keep this FPS gaming community an FPS gaming community, and not an abusive bully community where only "h0n0r d00dz" and "RPGers" are welcome.

AxVegetA
12-13-2003, 07:37 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rumor
We challenged you months ago. You never responded. /QUOTE]

When was this damit.
If it was in the game i must have not read it cause i never eject a challenge.
If you challenged me through this forum, i dont check it often so it most likely i never respond.
Stop saying i challenged u i challenged u and challenge me now. Now that i am actually reading this.

Master William
12-13-2003, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
IF YOU DON'T CARE FOR <insert mod here> , AND PREFER SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES OF <insert mod here>, THEN GET OUT!

zERoCooL2479
12-13-2003, 03:03 PM
As I realize my purpose is to undo what damage these mods have done.

Let's just hope that enough server admins will switch to Reloaded and join the new revolution of admin mods. When Omnicrap and JA Mod copy++ are snuffed out; The war with admin mods could be over. Isnt that worth fighting for? Isnt that worth coding for?

Hee-hee...:D

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-13-2003, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by zERoCooL2479
As I realize my purpose is to undo what damage these mods have done.

Let's just hope that enough server admins will switch to Reloaded and join the new revolution of admin mods. When Omnicrap and JA Mod copy++ are snuffed out; The war with admin mods could be over. Isnt that worth fighting for? Isnt that worth coding for?

Hee-hee...:D

I second that emotion.

Server admins considering OmNi Admin Mod or JA+ Mod 1.3 should forget those (unless and until the abusive commands get removed) and go with Jedi Academy Reloaded instead. Forget the imitators, get the real deal.

Players should avoid servers running OmNi Admin Mod or JA+ Mod (again, unless the authors wise up and take out the abusive commands) unless they are masochists (people who enjoy pain and suffering) or sadists (people who enjoy inflicting pain and seeing others suffer). The All Seeing Eye http://www.udpsoft.com/eye2/index.html
tells you what mod a server is running (if any).

Boycott servers with abusive admin mods!

Master William
12-13-2003, 05:27 PM
This is starting to sound like some sort of parent protest against GTA games...

razorace
12-13-2003, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by zERoCooL2479
As I realize my purpose is to undo what damage these mods have done.

Let's just hope that enough server admins will switch to Reloaded and join the new revolution of admin mods. When Omnicrap and JA Mod copy++ are snuffed out; The war with admin mods could be over. Isnt that worth fighting for? Isnt that worth coding for?

Hee-hee...:D

ACtually, I think you need to go a step farther and attempt to unite all the admin mods under one banner, perferably with OJP, but not nessecarily.

Unfortunately, admins have shown that they are more willing to host admin mods over mods that pass on admin tools and do other things instead. The result is that many cool mods get left in the dust.

Master William
12-13-2003, 07:13 PM
I consider the following admin commands to be valid...

- kick (easy to understand)

- ban (same here)

- kickban (same here)

- silence (silence whoever is cussing or saying other annoying things, not wanting to stop talking bull****, etc)

- freeze (many newbies have problems reading the chat for some strange reason, freezing them perhaps makes them notice the big MOTD that is right under their nose, or the simple chat message explaining the rules)

- rename (rename somebody that has a racist or offensive name, and refuses to change name, you can now just simply change their name into something more normal)

As for the slay and slap, I think they're not necessary at all.

Rad Blackrose
12-13-2003, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by Master William
I consider the following admin commands to be valid...

- kick (easy to understand)

- ban (same here)

- kickban (same here)

- silence (silence whoever is cussing or saying other annoying things, not wanting to stop talking bull****, etc)

- freeze (many newbies have problems reading the chat for some strange reason, freezing them perhaps makes them notice the big MOTD that is right under their nose, or the simple chat message explaining the rules)

- rename (rename somebody that has a racist or offensive name, and refuses to change name, you can now just simply change their name into something more normal)

As for the slay and slap, I think they're not necessary at all.

Finally, some common ground has been attained.

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-13-2003, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by razorace
Unfortunately, admins have shown that they are more willing to host admin mods over mods that pass on admin tools and do other things instead. The result is that many cool mods get left in the dust.

Not necessarily true. I have two Disruption mod instagib servers that have no admin functions (unfortunately). I asked the author to add three essential admin capabilities:
1. Client IP logging
2. Moving the banlist out of g_banips to a file
3. Controlling the use of /kill (good for CTF, bad for TFFA)

Multi-line MOTD is also very nice but not essential. He said he is working on an admin mod (yes, just what the world needs) and might add those features to Disruption mod later.

There were a lot of really great mods in JK2, but a lot of them had the same problem: they weren't server-side only. In the real world, it is almost impossible to get players to download and install custom maps, much less download and properly install a client-server mod. Look at Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy: 99% of the servers that are running mods and have people playing on them are running server-side mods.

As for OJP, it is very interesting and I am watching it, but it isn't at the 1.0.0 version stage yet. When it is finished, I might host it just so I could have Holocron FFA back (and I would also inflict JediMaster on people because I like it). xMod2 is also open source. Have you talked to Master Hex about contributing code?

razorace
12-13-2003, 08:17 PM
Check the server lists, how many run admin mods vs client/server mods?

And I'm confused how the version number has anything to do with OJP. Admitedly, it doesn't have any admin enhancements because noone has some submitted any, but everything else works fine.

I've talked to the authors of several of the admins and have gotten noncommital answers from all of them.

But I don't think I've talked to the xmod guy because I personally don't like the elitst attitude surrounding the project, the cvar overload, abusable admin commands, and the way they seem to think that reintroducing old unbalanced game elements without balances is the l33t3zt thing ever. Those are the sort of things that I beleive hurts the community in the first place.

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-13-2003, 08:23 PM
Oops, you replied before I got my edit in. See my edited post above.

Well, again to repeat, the only really successful mods, admin or otherwise, are server-side only. That's just the harsh reality.

I have made unbelievable efforts just to get people to download and install just one map pack, but few do it. Even with the "official" Bonus Map Pack by Raven Software, I had automated server messages every 15 minutes for 2 days:

"The JA Bonus Map Pack will be added to the rotation this weekend"
"Download it at www.lucasfiles.com or www.pcgamemods.com/3378"

"The JA Bonus Map Pack will be added to the rotation this weekend"
"Download it at www.lucasfiles.com or www.pcgamemods.com/3378"

"The JA Bonus Map Pack will be added to the rotation this weekend"
"Download it at www.lucasfiles.com or www.pcgamemods.com/3378"

Over and over and over again. Then last night I started saying "Bonus maps start in 40 minutes, make sure you have them". I did a countdown every 10 minutes, and then when the first bonus map started, I went from a full server with 12 people to a server with 2 people.

Now if they won't\can't\don't download and install an "official" map pack from Raven, just imagine getting them to download and install a client-server mod. Forget it, won't happen. I tried that in JK2 with Dueler's Mod, a mod with a lot of great features and admin commands included. Lots of work and effort, very little to show for it.

Bottom line: if you want to make a mod that will get used, make it server-side. If you want all the cool things that a client-server mod can do, you will have to accept the fact that few people will ever enjoy all of your hard work.

P.S.- Go to the =X= forum http://x.fragism.com/forum/index.php and talk to Hex directly. I really don't think he is elitist at all. And he is bowing to the will of the people and replacing abuse commands with something better for the honor doods. I bet he will be the only "admin" mod author who will help you out.

TK-8252
12-13-2003, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
Besides, it's inevitable that those RPGers, chatters, duelists and FFAers are going to get in each other's way and then you'll have whining, cussing and call-vote kicking. ; p With proper administration, it's possible. And if people could just follow rules, there would be no need for admins or mods. The admin mods are created to handle people who have an issue with following rules.

Originally posted by Kurgan
LARPING in a first person shooter is a bad idea. Why? Because the game is not setup or intended for that kind of use. Take it to a place suited to role playing, such as an RPG newgroup, chatroom or actual LARP. Or maybe even an RPG online game (there are dozens out there, even ones that are... gasp! free!). There's even Star Wars role playing games! The Jedi Knight series games are great, and those RP games are no where near as good.

Originally posted by Kurgan
And are you saying that non-RPG players lack imagination? No, it's just that RPers want to do different things, rather than just what the game is meant for.

Originally posted by Kurgan
If they want to do it on their own private specialized servers, fine, but they have this attitude that the worlds owes them and they need to convert the world to their style of "play." Wrong... once again, not ALL honor players have this idea to take over the gaming community.

Originally posted by Kurgan
This is a first person shooter, not a LARP.
This is a video game, not IRC.
This is about defeating your enemies to score points, not show who is more "honorable." So who says the game must be played exactly how it was intended for? Please answer me that.

Originally posted by Kurgan
Or are you going to assert that only RPG players and "h0n0r d00dz" are in it to have fun? For most online gamers competition = fun! People can have fun in their own way. For some people, fighting in real competitions is fun. For others, honorable play is fun.

Orignally posted by Kurgan
When you're waiting in line for a duel, you expect the people ahead of you to play, and get their battle over with so you can have your turn. It's common courtesy. If they waste time chatting, bowing and doing elaborate rituals (ie: anything other than fighting) their wasting YOUR TIME. MULTIPLE DUELZ pWnZ j00!!!!!!!!!!11111

Orignally posted by Kurgan
The "multi duel allowed in FFA" option is fine. I can see how that would save waiting in line, however the majority of "honor" servers don't seem to take advantage of this. Instead they make rules that you have to "wait in line" to fight. Also, multi-duels may be a fun feature, but that doesn't mean you also need amLaming or even an "honor code" does it? Where I play we never wait in line to duel. But like in this mod, JAR, amlaming was taken out. Commands like slap, slay, punish, bunny, etc. are not needed.

Orignally posted by Kurgan
I do saber challenges all the time on my server, and I don't acknowledge any "honor codes" nor do I employ any admin mods. Thats fine, you like to play your way, and I like to play my way. :cool:

Originally posted by Kurgan
Somehow I don't need those crutches and artificial rules to enjoy this bonus feature. Strange that some people insist they need them...? This is because you play differently than the honor folks. YOU don't need rules and admin commands because you have a REAL FFA server.

Originally posted by Kurgan
You act as if Amlaming, honor codes and Multiduels are an essential part of Admin Mods. They aren't and don't have to be. Amlame commands are BAD parts of admin mods. That's why cHoSeN oNe has taken them out!

Orignally posted by Kurgan
My thing is that if a "good admin" doesn't employ Amlaming, then what's the point of having those commands in the first place? There is no point in amlame commands. And I never said there was.

Orignally posted by Kurgan
And I know of admins who shun both honor codes and amlaming, so what's the point? All admins have their own rules, some have honor codes, others don't.

Orignally posted by Kurgan
Thus it's the responsibility of the community members to let Admin Mod authors know that these sorts of things (amlaming) have no place in the community, they simply aren't welcome. Well cHoSeN oNe has seen the light, but we still have to get those others to see it!

Originally posted by Kurgan
And it's the Admin Mod authors's reponsibility to make sure they don't put in easily abusable commands and they keep their source code private to prevent ignorant people from ripping off their code, putting in abusive commands and then releasing them for 12 year old maturity-level admins to abuse. cHoSeN oNe is not releasing his source code, I think he's doing a great job trying to prevent admin abuse.

Originally posted by Kurgan
Rather than letting them proliferate unchecked and then try to shame a few admins into not using them, it makes more sense to convince Mod Authors that amlaming and other abuse is unacceptable. I agree.

Originally posted by Kurgan
It's silly to give machineguns to kids and then assume that they'll all be good if we just scold them enough. Better not to give them the machineguns in the first place. I agree. Unload the gun first, such as cHoSeN oNe has done.

Originally posted by Kurgan
So help spread the word of the destructive influence of "honor" and "amlaming" and help keep this FPS gaming community an FPS gaming community, and not an abusive bully community where only "h0n0r d00dz" and "RPGers" are welcome. I've already started spreading the word to boycott abusive mods and commands. I've started right in my own clan forums.

Originally posted by Master William
I consider the following admin commands to be valid...

- kick (easy to understand)

- ban (same here)

- kickban (same here)

- silence (silence whoever is cussing or saying other annoying things, not wanting to stop talking bull****, etc)

- freeze (many newbies have problems reading the chat for some strange reason, freezing them perhaps makes them notice the big MOTD that is right under their nose, or the simple chat message explaining the rules)

- rename (rename somebody that has a racist or offensive name, and refuses to change name, you can now just simply change their name into something more normal)

As for the slay and slap, I think they're not necessary at all. Dude... do we think alike or what? And see, these are the commands that cHoSeN oNe has in JAR.

Master William
12-13-2003, 09:17 PM
Real admins think the same ;)

Just joking there :p
I think the bunny/slap/slay stuff are just for fun, not really needed. I would perhaps use such commands at friends I know(just to annoy them for fun :p), not at some poor newbie.

TK-8252
12-13-2003, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by Master William
Real admins think the same ;) I'm sorry, I don't follow... :confused:

Nothing new there!

SpecialForces
12-13-2003, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
Oops, you replied before I got my edit in. See my edited post above.

Well, again to repeat, the only really successful mods, admin or otherwise, are server-side only. That's just the harsh reality.

I have made unbelievable efforts just to get people to download and install just one map pack, but few do it. Even with the "official" Bonus Map Pack by Raven Software, I had automated server messages every 15 minutes for 2 days:

"The JA Bonus Map Pack will be added to the rotation this weekend"
"Download it at www.lucasfiles.com or www.pcgamemods.com/3378"

"The JA Bonus Map Pack will be added to the rotation this weekend"
"Download it at www.lucasfiles.com or www.pcgamemods.com/3378"

"The JA Bonus Map Pack will be added to the rotation this weekend"
"Download it at www.lucasfiles.com or www.pcgamemods.com/3378"

Over and over and over again. Then last night I started saying "Bonus maps start in 40 minutes, make sure you have them". I did a countdown every 10 minutes, and then when the first bonus map started, I went from a full server with 12 people to a server with 2 people.

Now if they won't\can't\don't download and install an "official" map pack from Raven, just imagine getting them to download and install a client-server mod. Forget it, won't happen. I tried that in JK2 with Dueler's Mod, a mod with a lot of great features and admin commands included. Lots of work and effort, very little to show for it.

Bottom line: if you want to make a mod that will get used, make it server-side. If you want all the cool things that a client-server mod can do, you will have to accept the fact that few people will ever enjoy all of your hard work.

P.S.- Go to the =X= forum http://x.fragism.com/forum/index.php and talk to Hex directly. I really don't think he is elitist at all. And he is bowing to the will of the people and replacing abuse commands with something better for the honor doods. I bet he will be the only "admin" mod author who will help you out.

make your server, just the map pack maps.

Did you make a mod?

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-13-2003, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
With proper administration, it's possible. And if people could just follow rules, there would be no need for admins or mods. The admin mods are created to handle people who have an issue with following rules.

And if there are no added-on made-up rules (to speak of) there is even less need for abusive admin mods or the admins to enforce them.

It seems to me that some of those who most ardently and at great length defend honor codes, rules, and admin mods are those who, like Soviet apparatchiks

ap·pa·ra·tchik ( P ) Pronunciation Key (äp-rächk)
n. pl. ap·pa·ra·tchiks or ap·pa·ra·tchi·ki (-ch-k)
1. A member of a Communist apparat.
2. An unquestioningly loyal subordinate, especially of a political leader or organization.

have the most to lose from the elimination of an oppressive totalitarian system: those "admins" (really subadmins because in most cases they don't pay for\host the server AND have rcon access AND have FTP access to server files if it's a hosted server) who would lose their "jobs" and have to go back to being regular old players if there were no more honor codes or admin mods.

For example, someone like this (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1285799#post1285799) (sorry TK)
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
I just want to be an admin because it would be cool to have infinite power over people. Not that i'd be a power abuser, it's just that I want to be incharge.

BTW, there are servers that are meant for all out war, so join those.

or this (sorry Master William):
Originally posted by Master William
Even if they are, I am admin at that server (it's a gameservers.net server) so I don't have to worry about getting kicked or chased or stuff like that.
Originally posted by Master William
I do like it, but I've never seen such a complicated... yet whiny... community for a game. I see it as a fight- and chat arena, sometimes I just screw fighting and I just watch other people fight, and I just sit and relax in a corner or something. This of course being at the server I am admin at, of course. (This meaning all gameservers.net servers)
Originally posted by Master William
Hmm... Gameservers.net FFA (03) is the server I am admin at. (i'm an admin for gameservers.net), and it's the one i play at mostly I guess.
Originally posted by Master William
Nothing annoys me with lamers. It used to, in my very best JK2 old days, I used to run around screaming 'lamer! OMG!!!' etc.

Anyways, what DOES annoy me with JA is when you have set your own server rules (or when I'm admin at the gameservers.net servers, which I am) and people just jump in and break the rules, even though I press the + key (bind + key say ^4Breaking these rules will get you kicked.... etc).

Otherwise, I'm fine with it. Just hate the rule breakers who can't read the chat messages when it's necessary.
Originally posted by Master William
If they do that ''saber off'' trick against you, you should kill them for that. A guy at the server I'm administrating (gameservers.net server) ....
Originally posted by Master William
I understand how it is being an admin at those servers. I am an admin at the public gameservers.net servers, and heck do I get tired of telling people the same thing. Retards run around breaking the server rules, totally ignoring my damn spammage of the rules (I have to spam if they don't stop it), and I end up warning them 2-3 times. They don't seem to give a ****, so I kick them. They come back asking why they were kicked. I explain that he/she must follow the server rules, or get kicked. He/she starts cussing, and disconnects.

But hey, even if you wrote it in the sky with smoke, they wouldn't understand it, because they would rather scratch their asses instead of looking up.

TK-8252
12-13-2003, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
And if there are no added-on made-up rules (to speak of) there is even less need for abusive admin mods or the admins to enforce them. What about language rules? We need admins to make sure that the server is clean and acceptable. And if people could just have a clean mouth, we wouldn't need admins to enforce language rules.

Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
(sorry TK) ... or this (sorry Master William): You act like being an honor admins is something to be ashamed of.

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-13-2003, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
You act like being an honor admins is something to be ashamed of.

Couldn't agree more.

TK-8252
12-13-2003, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
Couldn't agree more. Do I and Master William seem very abusive?

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-13-2003, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
Do I and Master William seem very abusive?

Not at all, that's not what I meant.

I am sure there were East German border guards at the Berlin Wall who were nice people (as I am sure you and Master William are) and who were fair and even handed and never actually shot any of their own countrymen who were trying to escape. Doesn't change the fact that they were helping to support an oppressive totalitarian system, and that they lost their "jobs" when the Wall came down, and had to go back to being average Joes (or Karls in their case).

Of course, I am exaggerating to make a point, the most abusive admin in a computer game is nothing compared to the horrors the people who lived under Soviet domination had to endure. My apologies to anyone who lived through that or had relatives who did.

TK-8252
12-13-2003, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
I am sure there were East German border guards at the Berlin Wall who were nice people (as I am sure you and Master William are) and who were fair and even handed and never actually shot any of their own countrymen who were trying to escape. Doesn't change the fact that they were helping to support an oppressive totalitarian system, and that they lost their "jobs" when the Wall came down, and had to go back to being average Joes (or Karls in their case). LOL, good one! I think I just got pwned... :mad:

BUT... we're not bent on dominating the gaming community, we're just trying to host a decent (honorable) server.

Arg, am I sounding communist? ;)

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-14-2003, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
LOL, good one! I think I just got pwned... :mad:

BUT... we're not bent on dominating the gaming community, we're just trying to host a decent (honorable) server.

Arg, am I sounding communist? ;)

TK, if there have to be honor servers and admins, I wish they could all be like you. :amidala:

Kurgan
12-14-2003, 02:28 AM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
The Jedi Knight series games are great, and those RP games are no where near as good.

My point was they are MUCH BETTER for Role Playing than JA or JK2 can ever be.

How many times in a Role Playing Game have you been "lamed" by somebody with your saber down for example?

The fact is that in Role Playing games people KNOW they are there to role play, and so the "shenanagins" that go on the supposedly require abusive admin commands and honor codes don't come up.

The RPG and h0n0r d00dz are trying to force a Square JA FPS Peg into a round Honor RPG hole.

And while they do it, they're pissing off all the people who are (rightly) trying to play the game the way it was designed.

No, it's just that RPers want to do different things, rather than just what the game is meant for.

My point exactly. They want to do different things, rather than just what the game is meant for.

That's the crux of the whole argument. And that would be enough, but then there is the fact that many of them try to force their unorthodox treatment of the game onto others.

Basically "H0n0r d00dz" I consider to merely be "RPG lite."

They want to pretend to be honorable samurai or role play being Jedi and doing nothing but duel, in non-dueling gametypes. They want to only die from things that look "cool" rather than from the messy, sometimes random kills that occur in a complex video game like JA/JK2.

Not every kill can be 'cinematic.' And yet, if they get killed by anything but the most basic of saber attacks when they are fully ready and after much bowing, they cry "Lamer!"

Wrong... once again, not ALL honor players have this idea to take over the gaming community.

No, but thanks to the widespread (ab)use of Admin Mods with amlaming, this has gotten far easier. And thus a minority of folks continue to erode the very fabric of the gaming community with their nonesense.


So who says the game must be played exactly how it was intended for? Please answer me that.

The developers of the game (Raven Software) for one. LucasArts & Activision who planned, financied, liscensed or otherwise promoted and sold the game for another.

And any player with common sense!

If some smart person developed and "RPG Total Conversion Mod" for JA and everybody was playing that, that'd be different. But instead we get half measures like admin mods that on the surface look like the regular game, but in practice are used to enforce petty and arbitrary rules that kill competative play.

People can have fun in their own way. For some people, fighting in real competitions is fun. For others, honorable play is fun.

The trouble is these folks seem to be determined to make sure that NOBODY ELSE can have fun but them. (Guess which group I'm talking about? Hint: It starts with an "H")


Let's use another analogy. Let's say some people like to watch television programs on their televisions. Other people like to fill their televisions with peanut butter.

Then let's say the peanut butter filler people break into people's houses and dump cans of Peter Pan into their neighbor's sets and stage angry demonstrations in front of the houses of others demanding they put the yummy spread into their boxes.

Then let's say peanut butter manufacturer's start including tool boxes with their nut spread jars that feature instructions on how to pry open a tv set and put the butter inside it.

Television viewers, angry at the abuse of both a wholesome snack spread and the ruin of many entertainment devices, stage a protest against the Peanut butter junkies.

They even petition the Peanut Butter makers to stop including tool sets and tv-buttering instructions with their jars.

MULTIPLE DUELZ pWnZ j00!!!!!!!!!!11111

No argument there. The trouble is, it seems this is less focused on and the "wait in line while emoting and amsleeping" is the norm, even among admin mod users.


Where I play we never wait in line to duel. But like in this mod, JAR, amlaming was taken out. Commands like slap, slay, punish, bunny, etc. are not needed.

No argument there.


This is because you play differently than the honor folks. YOU don't need rules and admin commands because you have a REAL FFA server.

The trouble is, a lot of people can't host their own servers, and therefore they rely on us to provide them with real gaming servers, not honor or RPG servers. If admin mods with abusive commands continue to spread, these folks won't have anywhere to play.

And it's a pity because if it weren't for them there would be no game to begin with. JA and JK2 were not made for RPG players and h0n0r d00dz. They were designed for FPS gamers who liked Star Wars! (*surprise!*)

Amlame commands are BAD parts of admin mods. That's why cHoSeN oNe has taken them out!

And rightly so, amen to that.

There is no point in amlame commands. And I never said there was.

Okay, I was getting the impression that you, like many other apologists for honor/RPG was saying that they were necessary to "keep order" and "make people obey the rules."

If you weren't, I'm sorry I misjudged you.

All admins have their own rules, some have honor codes, others don't.

Right, but if the admin mods they use are setup to enforce "honor codes" by bully-like means, that's bad for everyone.

Well cHoSeN oNe has seen the light, but we still have to get those others to see it!

Agreed.

cHoSeN oNe is not releasing his source code, I think he's doing a great job trying to prevent admin abuse.

Agreed.


I agree. Unload the gun first, such as cHoSeN oNe has done.

Well I would say don't give them the gun at all. By keeping it closed source and not including the commands he's effectively done that. The only controversial parts that remain are sleep and (IIRC) stuff like mute, which can still be abused, but not on the level of the other stuff.

So maybe he's giving them nerf guns instead of real ones, and that's an immense improvment.

I've already started spreading the word to boycott abusive mods and commands. I've started right in my own clan forums.

You rock!


Btw, Amidala, your boycott post was dead on, nice job. I won't quote it here because this post is already way too long. ; )

TK-8252
12-14-2003, 02:53 AM
Originally posted by Kurgan
That's the crux of the whole argument. And that would be enough, but then there is the fact that many of them try to force their unorthodox treatment of the game onto others. This is true. But remember, I've said it many times... not all honor players try to spread it like an iron curtain.

Originally posted by Kurgan
They want to pretend to be honorable samurai or role play being Jedi and doing nothing but duel, in non-dueling gametypes. They want to only die from things that look "cool" rather than from the messy, sometimes random kills that occur in a complex video game like JA/JK2. Hmm... not where I play.

Originally posted by Kurgan
Not every kill can be 'cinematic.' And yet, if they get killed by anything but the most basic of saber attacks when they are fully ready and after much bowing, they cry "Lamer!" Hmm... not where I play.

Originally posted by Kurgan
The developers of the game (Raven Software) for one. LucasArts & Activision who planned, financied, liscensed or otherwise promoted and sold the game for another. Did they ever say we *can't* play other than how they developed the game for?

Originally posted by Kurgan
If some smart person developed and "RPG Total Conversion Mod" for JA and everybody was playing that, that'd be different. But instead we get half measures like admin mods that on the surface look like the regular game, but in practice are used to enforce petty and arbitrary rules that kill competative play. Well here's the thing. As soon as you join an "honor style" server, you get this big message that pops up on your screen that will clearly state the rules. Now if someone would bother to read it, they'd know the rules, and follow them. And if someone disagrees with a server rule, they are always welcome to disconnect. :)

Originally posted by Kurgan
The trouble is these folks seem to be determined to make sure that NOBODY ELSE can have fun but them. (Guess which group I'm talking about? Hint: It starts with an "H") BULL****! Pure bull****. We play as we want, and you guys play as you want.

Originally posted by Kurgan
Let's use another analogy. Let's say some people like to watch television programs on their televisions. Other people like to fill their televisions with peanut butter.

Then let's say the peanut butter filler people break into people's houses and dump cans of Peter Pan into their neighbor's sets and stage angry demonstrations in front of the houses of others demanding they put the yummy spread into their boxes.

Then let's say peanut butter manufacturer's start including tool boxes with their nut spread jars that feature instructions on how to pry open a tv set and put the butter inside it.

Television viewers, angry at the abuse of both a wholesome snack spread and the ruin of many entertainment devices, stage a protest against the Peanut butter junkies.

They even petition the Peanut Butter makers to stop including tool sets and tv-buttering instructions with their jars. LOL! :lol:

Okay, first of all, this is a terrible example.

Invading someone's house to rip apart their TV and fill it with peanut butter gets you arrested. But ripping apart your own TV and filling it with peanut butter is completely fine! So if you're going to fill your server with honorable codes and rules you have every damn right to do so! But going into someone else's server and filling it with honorable codes is NOT right.

Originally posted by Kurgan
The trouble is, a lot of people can't host their own servers, and therefore they rely on us to provide them with real gaming servers, not honor or RPG servers. If admin mods with abusive commands continue to spread, these folks won't have anywhere to play. Ahh... kinda like communism ain't it?

Originally posted by Kurgan
Okay, I was getting the impression that you, like many other apologists for honor/RPG was saying that they were necessary to "keep order" and "make people obey the rules."

If you weren't, I'm sorry I misjudged you. Apology accepted. Just ask Amidala! She can vouch for me. ;)

Originally posted by Kurgan
Right, but if the admin mods they use are setup to enforce "honor codes" by bully-like means, that's bad for everyone. Slap, slay, punish, and bunny are evil.

Originally posted by Kurgan
You rock! You just found that out?!

Hehe :D

g//plaZma
12-14-2003, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
This is true. But remember, I've said it many times... not all honor players try to spread it like an iron curtain.

Nope, not all but enough.

Hmm... not where I play.

I've seen it happen a lot.

Did they ever say we *can't* play other than how they developed the game for?

Nope, but a lot of "honorable" players come to non-honor servers and try to enforce their laws on them. You guys can play how you want to, but please at least clearly mark your servers.

Well here's the thing. As soon as you join an "honor style" server, you get this big message that pops up on your screen that will clearly state the rules. Now if someone would bother to read it, they'd know the rules, and follow them. And if someone disagrees with a server rule, they are always welcome to disconnect. :)

You can't guarantee that someone will read them. I've had MotD's up on servers i'd admin and they'd clearly state that whining is not allowed, neither is use of the word "lamer" or anything remotely related to "honor." Guess what? I still got little honorable jedi missionaries coming in and trying to preech their honor religion or whatever.

BULL****! Pure bull****. We play as we want, and you guys play as you want.

That's assuming none of you come onto our servers and try to make it an honorable server or whatever. And vice-versa.

LOL! :lol:

Okay, first of all, this is a terrible example.

Invading someone's house to rip apart their TV and fill it with peanut butter gets you arrested. But ripping apart your own TV and filling it with peanut butter is completely fine! So if you're going to fill your server with honorable codes and rules you have every damn right to do so! But going into someone else's server and filling it with honorable codes is NOT right.

He was referring to going onto other peoples servers and trying to enforce honor onto it with a funny example.

TK-8252
12-14-2003, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by g//plaZma
I've seen it happen a lot. Excuse me, not where I play. :)

Originally posted by g//plaZma
Nope, but a lot of "honorable" players come to non-honor servers and try to enforce their laws on them. You guys can play how you want to, but please at least clearly mark your servers. Clicking on the server info button in the server selection list, you can see if the server is running an admin mod or not. If it is running an admin mod, most likely it'll have some kind of code.

Originally posted by g//plaZma
You can't guarantee that someone will read them. I've had MotD's up on servers i'd admin and they'd clearly state that whining is not allowed, neither is use of the word "lamer" or anything remotely related to "honor." Guess what? I still got little honorable jedi missionaries coming in and trying to preech their honor religion or whatever. That's... pretty sad. :disaprove

Originally posted by g//plaZma
That's assuming none of you come onto our servers and try to make it an honorable server or whatever. And vice-versa. Ask Amidala... do I ever spread honor in her server?

Originally posted by g//plaZma
He was referring to going onto other peoples servers and trying to enforce honor onto it with a funny example. Yes, I knew what he was saying. But here in the states, breaking into someone's house to destroy their TV gets you arrested.

Master William
12-14-2003, 05:51 PM
I'm an admin at different servers, from Siege servers with no rules to FFA servers with honor-rules. You can't blame me for what server I am an admin at. I am simply asked to administrate a place, so I do it. Don't tell me you wouldn't administrate a honor server, that would sound so childish.

I play all ways possible that JA has to offer. FFA, Siege, honors, no honors... Well, the list goes on.

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-14-2003, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by Master William
I'm an admin at different servers, from Siege servers with no rules to FFA servers with honor-rules. You can't blame me for what server I am an admin at. I am simply asked to administrate a place, so I do it. Don't tell me you wouldn't administrate a honor server, that would sound so childish.

I play all ways possible that JA has to offer. FFA, Siege, honors, no honors... Well, the list goes on.

OMG, he just can't help himself!

Master William, you have frequently told people to stop saying the same thing over and over again. We know you are an "admin", OK? Perhaps you skipped over my post on the previous page. To save you the trouble of paging back, I'll quote myself here (to avoid saying the same thing over in a different way myself).

Just imagine if tomorrow there were no more admin mods and subadmins. OMG, Master William would lose his "job" and have to be just like everyone else. He couldn't say "I am an admin" anymore. That's what a lot of this is really about.

Originally posted by TK8252MJL
With proper administration, it's possible. And if people could just follow rules, there would be no need for admins or mods. The admin mods are created to handle people who have an issue with following rules.

And if there are no added-on made-up rules (to speak of) there is even less need for abusive admin mods or the admins to enforce them.

It seems to me that some of those who most ardently and at great length defend honor codes, rules, and admin mods are those who, like Soviet apparatchiks

ap·pa·ra·tchik ( P ) Pronunciation Key (äp-rächk)
n. pl. ap·pa·ra·tchiks or ap·pa·ra·tchi·ki (-ch-k)
1. A member of a Communist apparat.
2. An unquestioningly loyal subordinate, especially of a political leader or organization.

have the most to lose from the elimination of an oppressive totalitarian system: those "admins" (really subadmins because in most cases they don't pay for\host the server AND have rcon access AND have FTP access to server files if it's a hosted server) who would lose their "jobs" and have to go back to being regular old players if there were no more honor codes or admin mods.

For example, someone like this (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1285799#post1285799) (sorry TK)
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
I just want to be an admin because it would be cool to have infinite power over people. Not that i'd be a power abuser, it's just that I want to be incharge.

BTW, there are servers that are meant for all out war, so join those.

or this (sorry Master William):
Originally posted by Master William
Even if they are, I am admin at that server (it's a gameservers.net server) so I don't have to worry about getting kicked or chased or stuff like that.
Originally posted by Master William
I do like it, but I've never seen such a complicated... yet whiny... community for a game. I see it as a fight- and chat arena, sometimes I just screw fighting and I just watch other people fight, and I just sit and relax in a corner or something. This of course being at the server I am admin at, of course. (This meaning all gameservers.net servers)
Originally posted by Master William
Hmm... Gameservers.net FFA (03) is the server I am admin at. (i'm an admin for gameservers.net), and it's the one i play at mostly I guess.
Originally posted by Master William
Nothing annoys me with lamers. It used to, in my very best JK2 old days, I used to run around screaming 'lamer! OMG!!!' etc.

Anyways, what DOES annoy me with JA is when you have set your own server rules (or when I'm admin at the gameservers.net servers, which I am) and people just jump in and break the rules, even though I press the + key (bind + key say ^4Breaking these rules will get you kicked.... etc).

Otherwise, I'm fine with it. Just hate the rule breakers who can't read the chat messages when it's necessary.
Originally posted by Master William
If they do that ''saber off'' trick against you, you should kill them for that. A guy at the server I'm administrating (gameservers.net server) ....
Originally posted by Master William
I understand how it is being an admin at those servers. I am an admin at the public gameservers.net servers, and heck do I get tired of telling people the same thing. Retards run around breaking the server rules, totally ignoring my damn spammage of the rules (I have to spam if they don't stop it), and I end up warning them 2-3 times. They don't seem to give a ****, so I kick them. They come back asking why they were kicked. I explain that he/she must follow the server rules, or get kicked. He/she starts cussing, and disconnects.

But hey, even if you wrote it in the sky with smoke, they wouldn't understand it, because they would rather scratch their asses instead of looking up.

Alegis
12-14-2003, 06:31 PM
Cut a bit of slack on him, he likes to be admin and so do you amidala from chop shop with the 100 chop shops server ips in your sig

I agree with him it beeing a chat and fight server, not a star wars galaxies server with experience points

Bilbo Skywalker
12-14-2003, 06:32 PM
lol thats one hell of a way to prove a point. Sorry I know this is a serious discussion / arguement, but that made me laugh as the examples kept rolling in. :)

Master William
12-14-2003, 07:00 PM
What's your point? I spam the fact that I'm an admin too much? And the servers I play at don't use a single admin mod ;)

g//plaZma
12-14-2003, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
Excuse me, not where I play. :)

You've made that point already but jk3files isn't the only "honor" server.

Clicking on the server info button in the server selection list, you can see if the server is running an admin mod or not. If it is running an admin mod, most likely it'll have some kind of code.

We weren't using one.

Ask Amidala... do I ever spread honor in her server?

No, and I wasn't accusing you of anything like that. I'm talking about the "honor" community in gerneral.

Yes, I knew what he was saying. But here in the states, breaking into someone's house to destroy their TV gets you arrested.

Maybe but how does arrest relate to the game? BTW, you won't get arrested for just breaking their TV, the arrest comes from breaking into their house.

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-14-2003, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by Master William
What's your point? I spam the fact that I'm an admin too much?Yes.
Originally posted by Master William
And the servers I play at don't use a single admin mod ;) Yet. When the real admins (the ones who, as I do, actually pay for\host the servers, configure them, and maintain them) chose an admin mod (if any), I hope you can persuade them to use a less abuse-prone one like Jedi Academy Reloaded or the next version of xMod2. Or at least disable the abuse-prone commands in other admin mods so subadmins won't be tempted to abuse players.

Rad Blackrose
12-14-2003, 08:41 PM
Excuse me, not where I play.

Want a cookie?

Not every kill can be 'cinematic.' And yet, if they get killed by anything but the most basic of saber attacks when they are fully ready and after much bowing, they cry "Lamer!"

These are probably the same people that want a crowd around their deathbed because they were an honorable person and their touch meant they were gifted or something... Want the truth? I'm borrowing this from a movie I have a paper on due Tuesday.

Suppose nothing happens to you. Suppose you lived out your whole life and nothing happens you never meet anybody you never become anything and finally you die in one of those New York deaths which nobody notices for two weeks until the smell drifts into the hallway.

Guessing where that quote came from gets you another cookie.

Kurgan
12-14-2003, 09:13 PM
Yes, I knew what he was saying. But here in the states, breaking into someone's house to destroy their TV gets you arrested.

That is true, and you know what? It's NOT ILLEGAL TO INVADE SOMEBODY'S SERVER AND DEMAND THEY HONOR (no pun intended) YOUR PERSONAL HONOR CODE AND CALL THEM A LAMER!

Breaking into somebody's home is llegal, but it's not wrong merely because it's illegal.

It's rude, disrespectful, hateful, etc.


Likewise, invading somebody's server and harassing them or their guests is not illegal, but it's similarly rude, disrespectful and hateful.

If you want an admin to change his rules, here's an idea, EMAIL HIM/HER or otherwise contact him/her and talk about it in a civilized manner.

Unfortunately large numbers of honor dudes don't get it, they invade public servers and use mob rule and profanity to try to force their beliefs on others.

Admin Mods with their amslap commands seem bourne of this same "angry honor dude" mentality. That's why I link the two. Honor is a more widespread problem, but I can ignore it (except on servers with voting enabled), however Admin Mods I can't, because a server that has them has the power to humiliate me at the drop of the hat, for no reason at all.

It's as if they were made by some honor guys so they could have "revenge" on all the "lamers" who ignored them. Yet the trouble is the admin mods don't care if you're a lamer or not, they just give you the power to BE a lamer, unopposed.

Ironic, isn't it, that the supposedly "honorable" players and admins are also the first ones to resort to callvote-kick and the use of amslap/sleep/slay/kickban when they encounter somebody who has different ideas? Doesn't sound so honorable to me...

Master William
12-14-2003, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
Yet. When the real admins (the ones who, as I do, actually pay for\host the servers, configure them, and maintain them) chose an admin mod (if any), I hope you can persuade them to use a less abuse-prone one like Jedi Academy Reloaded or the next version of xMod2. Or at least disable the abuse-prone commands in other admin mods so subadmins won't be tempted to abuse players.

We aren't using any admin mod, just original JA, as I said. There are two ranks of admins (usually), and a ''real'' admin is not one of them. And I am telling them to use JA Reloaded, because it has only necessary commands.

And all the times I said I was an admin was necessary to be said because my otherwise my post would appear a little bit confusing.

I'm just a normal admin at GameServers.net, what do you want me to do? Break the rules and edit the configs? Pay for a public server? I think the words you are looking for can be either dedicated or better, not real.
A real admin is just one who doesn't abuse and is good at doing his/hers stuff, like kicking the right persons, telling people the rules, etc.

No offense intended, but it's just annoying how you just stormed in and started calling me a bad admin and that I should stop spamming it, totally off-topic.

Master William
12-14-2003, 10:43 PM
@ Kurgan: I stumbled upon people who called me ''lamer" in a no rules server. The MOTD clearly showed the rules such as ''The word 'laming' is not recognized here'' or ''this is a no rules server, so don't scream the word 'lamer' here''.

Still, the admin told me to shut up for some reason when I told the honorists to read the rules, and they still went: ''lamer! we make the rules!''

Hah, my and my friend at school even use the word as a joke, we laugh our butts off when we hear somebody in JA going "lamer!".

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-14-2003, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by Master William
No offense intended, but it's just annoying how you just stormed in and started calling me a bad admin and that I should stop spamming it, totally off-topic.

I never called you a bad admin. I've never seen you doing it so I have no idea whether you are good, bad, or indifferent. I will assume you are good.

Kurgan
12-18-2003, 02:27 AM
@ Kurgan: I stumbled upon people who called me ''lamer" in a no rules server. The MOTD clearly showed the rules such as ''The word 'laming' is not recognized here'' or ''this is a no rules server, so don't scream the word 'lamer' here''.

Still, the admin told me to shut up for some reason when I told the honorists to read the rules, and they still went: ''lamer! we make the rules!''

Hah, my and my friend at school even use the word as a joke, we laugh our butts off when we hear somebody in JA going "lamer!".

Sadly, there are always going to be people like that.

My guess is that either the admin was away, or there was a subadmin in position (that maybe let his power go to his head now that his boss was away).

I read the logs from my server and I've occasionally seen funny things, like people pretending to be the admin (for some reason people assume that a high scorer or somebody who talks a lot is automatically the admin!) or people yelling about honor and trying to convince everyone that they're right. Then I've had people get pissing angry at bots and yell stuff at them.

Finally, I've had a few people defend my lack of rules and shout down honor players on my server (which is fine by me, muahhahaha!).

That's the thing about h0n0rz d00dz.. they think their rules are universal (or they think they "ought to be") and try to spread their propaganda everywhere, even where it's obviously unwanted.

And they accuse US of "laming" and "ruining the fun."
Hypocrites... ; p