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View Full Version : JK2 vs. JA


MasterSidious
12-04-2003, 03:37 PM
Well, since I've heard some hatred towards JA and that jk2 is better, this is where we debate this. I believe that JA rocks compared to JK2 because you can do ALOT more things in it. I also agree though that the fact that the game play is more versatile also makes it so that JK2 might be a little more challenging, but I don't know because I don't actually have JA yet. I know, why the **** am I talking about this like I am then? Well, I'm really basing all of this upon things that I hear, but I have good sources though. So tell me what YOU think. JK2 vs. JA

Kuuki
12-04-2003, 03:56 PM
If i may interupt to put in my 2 cents

JA IS STILL JKII!! NOT JKIII!! NOTICE ON AT LEAST THE WEBSITS AND ADS FOR IT THAT IT USES THE JKII LOGO!!

*gasp*

okay, I'm calm now ^_^

Rumor
12-04-2003, 04:04 PM
JA while it has more moves to do with saber specials, it by no means is more complex. anything you can do in vanilla ja is listed in the manual.

jk2 on the other hand, the gameplay was faster, the sabers were a lot less random (still random but not like it is in ja), you can do a ton of things not in the manual because of the nature of the game.

pk
ptk
pushkick
gk
glitch kick
rage dfa
before .04 you could use lunge to fall slowly...that was sooo cool
windmill combo (really complex i've only done it like 4x in 2 years)
tons and tons and tons of other combos that were utterly devestating.

Kengo
12-04-2003, 04:18 PM
I went back to JO SP yesterday to play a new level by Micheal May (Kessel - it rules!) and it really seemed slower to me. I missed the extra flamboyance of two sabers and the general dynamism of the saber fights and improved AI of the NPC saberists in particular. I think JA SP is rather similar to JO SP, but with all kinds of little improvements and tweaks as well as of course the new saber styles. So essentially I prefer JA SP in every way, it feels like an update of JO.

As for MP....I think dual and double handed sabers dominate way more than they should, I am dissapointed by only 3 siege maps, and by the overal selection of maps that come with the game on the whole for MP. Still, its at least as enjoyable as JO MP for me, and at least we don't get the constant complaints about the various patches...yet.

PG|Prometheus
12-04-2003, 05:04 PM
Personally, I like JK2 better, but JA is still a nice game.
Both SP are slow, because they're meant to be 'movie like'. They have that shiny finish, especially with the lighting to make them look like something out of the films.

The mp on the other hand, I find JA mp infuriatingly spammy. People are joining, keeping their finger on mouse1 and actually killing people. This could never happen in JK2. Perhaps this isn't such a bad thing, but it makes competeive mp a bit of a facade, where a player may have been practicing for 3 months, but a complete novice can learn ALL of the moves in a matter of hours.

What i'm saying is, there is a much narrower learning curve in JA. There aren't an infinite ammount of combinations of attacks, just those that are deadset. Because of this, there is a mutual feeling that 'dedicating' yourself to this game in order to get better is pointless and hopeless, since there isn't a great deal to grasp, especially if you are an ex JK2 player.

Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing isn't for me to say. Personally I prefer JK2, but JA is still a great game. Join our ladders today!

noide
12-04-2003, 06:42 PM
jk2 was one of the best MP games ive ever played. JA was a huge let down and a weak legacy to one of my favourite games.

JediLiberator
12-04-2003, 10:25 PM
I felt the JA sp was pathetically easy(I had it set on Jedi Level difficulty) compared to JO sp. I think the only thing that made me happy about JA mp is that people cant kick people the way they did in JO mp. Now I can cut my kicking enemies, which is the the way it should be. I also think that the single saber in JA mp is in need of some improvements. The kata's need to be made so you can actually move while doing them. I also think the double saber kata is pointless. It kind of reminds me of how the Mysteries of the Sith game felt after playing the original Jedi Knight. scary how history repeats itself huh?:rolleyes:

MasterSidious
12-04-2003, 11:28 PM
Well all of these bad things could be fixed though with a little coding right? In JK2 you would have to right lots of code. For example the ability to fly or less importantly have npcs in mp would be VERY hard to mod. So, yea maybe JA has problems, but they can be fixed, right? Also, I've heard that Melee mod is sweet. Is this true? I wish there could be something like this done in JK2.

Kurgan
12-05-2003, 01:09 AM
This debate is so old and heated, I almost half expect it to appear in the Senate Chambers (though I think SkinWalker might not be too amused, heh).

The fact is, some people will always love JK2 and hate JA and vice versa.

It's not like just Pepsi vs. Coke, Boxers vs. Briefs, Cotton vs. Polyester, etc.

This happens with every game series. A sequel comes out and people love the new game but hate the old and others stay with the old game citing their laundary list of reasons why the new version isn't as good.

The thing is, there's also the option to "love both" (or hate both, but then you wouldn't waste your time talking about it right?). The JK series are FPS games, not MMORPG's, so it's actually possible to play both and host both (for example, like Admin Amidala does).

So all I can say is, each to his own. The debate is really as pointless as any of the others I cited above. Sure you can cite number or quality of mods, number of bugs, "quality of support" (which is somewhat subjective), amount of support, number of servers/players, size of community, etc. but it really all comes down to personal preference.

The main "debate" we've seen has been with the so-called competative community, the "honor community" and the casual gamers. Nobody has tried to argue that one game is easier to edit, or that one game has better graphics/sound. The technical aspect of the debate is virtually nonexistent. Few if any have tried to argue sales figures either. Only a few have mentioned the single player storyline or characters are reason for high or low marks comparing the games.

People love/hate JA because of the skills it takes to be good.

They love/hate it because of the way in which Raven chose to attempt to balance the game.

They love/hate it because of the bugs/lack thereof.

They love/hate it because of the features it has/lacks.

They love/hate it because of the community spirit they encounter.

Some people hate it because you get to use two lightsabers or a saber staff or because you don't get to be Kyle (no joke, these are real reasons I've heard).

Anyway, I just think the whole "which game takes more skill and therefore is better for online competition" part of the debate is sad and tired. So, anyway, I'm rambling now, but this is NOTHING NEW, been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. ; )

fk | screed
12-05-2003, 01:52 AM
I prefer Boxers for warm/hot days and briefs for the cold. :D

edit: Boxers are a definate no-no when playing sports, it like women running w/o a bra on :p .

Kurgan
12-05-2003, 12:27 PM
Ah refreshing to hear a new opinion.

Here's a person who likes both!

Though what do you say to the guy who likes BoxerBriefs?

; )

Prime
12-05-2003, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Rumor
JA while it has more moves to do with saber specials, it by no means is more complex. anything you can do in vanilla ja is listed in the manual.

jk2 on the other hand, the gameplay was faster, the sabers were a lot less random (still random but not like it is in ja), you can do a ton of things not in the manual because of the nature of the game.

pk
ptk
pushkick
gk
glitch kick
rage dfa
before .04 you could use lunge to fall slowly...that was sooo cool
windmill combo (really complex i've only done it like 4x in 2 years)
tons and tons and tons of other combos that were utterly devestating. And this is where the different preferences of players comes into play. I know many players (like yourself :) ) are very keen on combos and moves that are not in the manual, and indeed supply more options to players. There are also a lot of players (like me) that don't really care one way or the other whether there are "extra moves". I guess this is just another reason why some people like JA a lot and others players like it less so.

Originally posted by Kengo
I went back to JO SP yesterday to play a new level by Micheal May (Kessel - it rules!) and it really seemed slower to me.Have you tried playing it in JA SP? I have found (so far) that every custom made JO SP map works just fine in JA SP. It might be worth giving it a go. :)

griff38
12-05-2003, 02:04 PM
I don't hate either, But JA has gotten boring alot faster than JK.




JA had a much better SP than JK but still I could only play it once before it got 2 predictable.

Prime
12-05-2003, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by griff38
I don't hate either, But JA has gotten boring alot faster than JK. True. But I suspect that a lot of that has to do with the amount many of us played JO. JA is not a completely new experience, but if it was I suspect that people would not get bored of it as quickly.

PG|Prometheus
12-05-2003, 02:35 PM
Not to stray into the JA = JK2 code arguement, but I believe there hasn't been any arguements saying either JK2 or JA is easier to code than the other, because JA's code is so similar to JK2.
I believe its also the reason why so many mods have already been released so soon after the sdk release. The ex JK2 coders don't have much new code to learn. Again this might be a good thing.

Prime
12-05-2003, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by PG|Prometheus
I believe its also the reason why so many mods have already been released so soon after the sdk release. The ex JK2 coders don't have much new code to learn. Again this might be a good thing. Just to expand on that, one reason why people might get bored with JA faster is that so many things transfer from JO. Models, skins, maps and things of that sort for the most part all work fine in JA. A lot of the excitement for some people was getting new models and maps. In JA, all the major stuff (Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan models, Duel of Fates maps, and that sort of thing) was available as soon as the game was released. There is not much anticipation for new JA stuff, since all the "big ticket" items have already been done.

MasterSidious
12-05-2003, 02:54 PM
WOW! Actually this is kinda pointless, I mean we can just play both. I guess. But still, I just don't know. Maybe I'm just bitching :D

Rumor
12-05-2003, 03:08 PM
hex copied and pasted the kick code from jk2 to ja in his mod. :eek:

Rumor
12-05-2003, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by Prime
And this is where the different preferences of players comes into play. I know many players (like yourself :) ) are very keen on combos and moves that are not in the manual, and indeed supply more options to players. There are also a lot of players (like me) that don't really care one way or the other whether there are "extra moves". I guess this is just another reason why some people like JA a lot and others players like it less so.

Have you tried playing it in JA SP? I have found (so far) that every custom made JO SP map works just fine in JA SP. It might be worth giving it a go. :)

and thats their perogative and i respect that but if they are going to try and make me play their way or say its the "right way" or the views of the "majority" then they got another thing comin'

/me goes and finds that song and listens...

ah the good old days...

The Count
12-05-2003, 03:16 PM
I like both but JA SP was too easy; and JO was a much fesher Jedi Knight Experience.



Oh and the JA storyline was absolutley bollocks.

Agen
12-05-2003, 06:17 PM
JK2's was bollocks too lol.

I find JA to be better imo, dunno why, I never played with force in jk2 except on the odd occasion (was just too slow for good force play) and then it means that everyone has one set of moves vs another player with the exact same set of moves...

:p

SpecialForces
12-05-2003, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
This debate is so old and heated, I almost half expect it to appear in the Senate Chambers (though I think SkinWalker might not be too amused, heh).

The fact, some people will always love JK2 and hate JA and vice versa.

It's not like just Pepsi vs. Coke, Boxers vs. Briefs, Cotton vs. Polyester, etc.

This happens with every game series. A sequel comes out and people love the new game but hate the old and others stay with the old game citing their laundary list of reasons why the new version isn't as good.

The thing is, there's also the option to "love both" (or hate both, but then you wouldn't waste your time talking about it right?). The JK series are FPS games, not MMORPG's, so it's actually possible to play both and host both (for example, like Admin Amidala does).

So all I can say is, each to his own. The debate is really as pointless as any of the others I cited above. Sure you can cite number or quality of mods, number of bugs, "quality of support" (which is somewhat subjective), amount of support, number of servers/players, size of community, etc. but it really all comes down to personal preference.

The main "debate" we've seen has been with the so-called competative community, the "honor community" and the casual gamers. Nobody has tried to argue that one game is easier to edit, or that one game has better graphics/sound. The technical aspect of the debate is virtually nonexistent. Few if any have tried to argue sales figures either. Only a few have mentioned the single player storyline or characters are reason for high or low marks comparing the games.

People love/hate JA because of the skills it takes to be good.

They love/hate it because of the way in which Raven chose to attempt to balance the game.

They love/hate it because of the bugs/lack thereof.

They love/hate it because of the features it has/lacks.

They love/hate it because of the community spirit they encounter.

Some people hate it because you get to use two lightsabers or a saber staff or because you don't get to be Kyle (no joke, these are real reasons I've heard).

Anyway, I just think the whole "which game takes more skill and therefore is better for online competition" part of the debate is sad and tired. So, anyway, I'm rambling now, but this is NOTHING NEW, been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. ; )

Now I know why you are a Moderator...
:) :) :) :) :)

fk | screed
12-06-2003, 12:53 AM
I think hes a moderator cause he kisses alot of ass and posts (trolls) way to much.

Oh and about the boxer briefs, whatever floats your boat bud.

Sam Fisher
12-06-2003, 02:29 AM
Oh, and to add, Paper or plastic?

:p

Really, a lot of people don't like JA as much because most think its just a mod. Nothing new. (well, it is, kinda. But the dev's would have looked bad if the modders surpassed them:P)

Jason Welcome
12-06-2003, 02:56 AM
Both games are really good games I really enjoyed both of them. That being said these are the reasons I liked JK II more.

1. All of the levels looked amazing, and were really fun to play.
2. Desann was a total bad ass, Tavion was fun to toy with but ultamitely I never thought I was going to loose when I fought here at the end of the game. Plus I liked her alot more in JK II her outfit was way cooler and she seemed to have more skill.
3. I think that the shadowtroopers we one of the coolest ideas that never made it to a movie. I often play as one with a blue double bladed saber in JA.
4. The story it had a story, which JA seems to lack, plus the story was really good and compelling.

Things I would have changed about JA.

1. I wish that the quality of the textures and modeling of the levels would have been better, some like Hoth were super cool but others like Corusant fell short, I felt the buildings did not resemble the ones see in the movie...

2. The main bad guy didn't seem to be very menacing. Again Desann was more of a threat, plus Galak was a really good subplot which allowed Kyle to fight a non force enemy who was just as deadly and Dangerous as a dark jedi, very cool.

Prime
12-06-2003, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Rumor
and thats their perogative and i respect that but if they are going to try and make me play their way or say its the "right way" or the views of the "majority" then they got another thing comin' I would not do such a thing, of course :)

PG|Prometheus
12-06-2003, 04:05 PM
If you look back, JK2 was a huge step up from the original JK. It put you in a third person view, added acrobatics, unlimited combinations of moves and generally made everything look so much nicer.
But then we have JA from JK2. Granted it is changing a few things, but there isn't that massive leap. With the additions of the problems players have, stating things are removed, rather than a leap, it may be two steps backwards, one step forwards.

In fact, most of JA's original features are 'been there, done that' through a variety of JK2 mods. In my opinion, there definately aren't enough changes to warrant a separate title, which is possibly why there are so many arguements over whether things should be in the game or not.
If the game was vastly different (such as JK2 to JK) there couldn't be any arguements. The games so different their features can't be compared.
But when you have JA to JK2, games that are so similar, the game appears to be an expansion or a mod of the original. And when the Similarities outweigh the difference, such as in this case, the arguements are more abundant.

Rumor
12-06-2003, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by Prime
I would not do such a thing, of course :)

cuz ur sexah

Kurgan
12-06-2003, 06:59 PM
fk | screed wrote:
I think hes a moderator cause he kisses alot of ass and posts (trolls) way to much.

Please don't give away my secret!

lllKyNeSlll
12-07-2003, 12:33 AM
Ya up close range ff sabers jk2 is faster paced by alot. This is mainly because of the combos (like what rumor said) and because roll moved you a much further distance.
But personally, for guns and straight out movement I think jk3 is much faster paced. I strafe jump quite a bit faster in jk3 than in jk2 because something different about the physics makes each jump you do a little further. Also being able to run up and flip off walls conserves alot more force than in jk2 so people can get where they need to alot faster and in more innovative ways that conserve more force.

This demo pretty much shows what I mean about faster speed in jk3 for GUNNING.
www.geocities.com/lllKyNeSlll/ctfbeasts.zip since free geocities doesn't allow direct downloading without a site, you have to right click and save rather than just left clicking

Master William
12-07-2003, 01:05 AM
JK2 is IMO better because of the better SP and MP maps, and that's about it. Oh and, the custom maps were better. Now everyone is in the ''dark academy temple ruins'' style, and I hate it. I loved jedicouncilgc2 for JO...
Altough, I could never go back to JO. Why? Well, I tried to weeks ago, but I found myself wanting to play with dual sabers and staff, and the roll stab wasn't there when I wanted it to... So when I started to play JA again, I felt joy...