View Full Version : bones and tags

12-07-2003, 02:25 PM

I've read a few tutorials and forums regarding making new JA models to work as players.


In the JA SDK's root.xsi (skeleton file?), once imported to MAX (5) it has a bunch of little boxes that are named "DaVinciMale.bonename" and a mesh of luke(?) that cannot be shown in wireframe view (only shaded), and is attached to the boxes?...

In the "Guide to getting a model into JK2" tutorial (by Tim 'spacemonkey' Appleby):

It says that there are "tags" and these tags are named "bolt_somebonename"

My question is this:
Are the bones the same as the bolts the same as the tags the same as the boxes in the imported root.xsi...

Or do i need to link the "segments" of the actual model together, and these are then acting as the bones...

I think I'm missing something here, do I need to create the bones from the JA root.xsi skeleton, or make a new skeleton and link the "tags" (i'm assuming i use the little boxes in the imported file) to this new skeleton as well as using the skin modifier to attach the actual model to this new created bone structure...

in other words:
do I need to make a new skeleton from scratch, weight my model to it with the skin modifier, then link the "tags" to this skeleton.


do I link the root.xsi togther to make a skeleton, then use something else as the tags, possibly the JO "skeleton" from the old xsi file...?


I need to make a new MAX skeleton in the same pose as the root.xsi file, use the imported "DeVinciMale" objects as the "tags", put my existing model (currently with a biped pysique) into the scene, line it up with the new skeleton, delete it's old biped bone structure, link all the segments of the model (after cutting and capping it), then apply a skin modifier to this linked hierarchy and adjust the envelopes...

DO I: Then also apply skin modifier to the tag boxes, and weight them onto the bones of the skeleton.
OR DO I: "Link" the tags to the bones...


I'm I missing the point a bit here and the actual model pieces ("segments") are the bones themselves, and there is no seperate skeleton... and that's why they are linked, and the tags are attached to them...

Anyways, if anyone has the time to sort out a newbie like myself we will be releasing new player model(s) for JA soon, with custom skins and upcoming maps...

BTW i've got these files:
1. XSI importer and exporters from the Softimage site.
2. The offical raven JKJA modelling SDK (Carcass, assimilate, root.xsi, etc)
3. 3DSMAX v5
4. Guide to getting model into JO game mentioned above.
5. Polychop, Autolink, re-namer2, texporter, the max glm importer.
6. anything else I could find...

I saw somewhere mentioned a MAX file with skeleton that was already setup for JK2 and worked with deleting a few bones... but the link to it didn't work (required login)..:eek:

Thanks for all the help I've already received by reading these forums and tutorials:D


==Check out the new JAGuar skin for JA (done on reborn model and available on LucasFiles)==

12-10-2003, 05:11 PM
reading your post i got confused a bit my self, but i am sure we can sort that right again.

first off, a player model consists of three basic things:
-meshes, actual the 3d object you see in game, it has a skin on it so it looks like cloth for ex.
-bones, this is the skeleton of a model that causes the animation, it isnt visible in game. JA has a spezial file named _humanoid.gla that sets up all the playermodel animations. this workes only if all models using this _humanoid.gla file have exactly the same bones in the right structure in the model.
-tags, these are small triangles, three verts with a single sided face linking them. tags in a model are called bolt_XXXX, for ex. bolt_head_top, its the tag that tells the game where is the highest point of the head.

there are also two kinds of relations between these elements. one is a hirarchical linking of objects. if you go into schematic view in 3ds max you see the hole hirarchie. the bones creat one branch of theis hirarchie the other are the meshes and tags together.
the other relation is the weighting. see, when the bones are moving we want the the meshes and tags stay in the same position relativ to the bones. for example if the model mves his head we want the head mesh and the bolt_head_top tag move according to it. so we have to weight the head and all head tags to the right head bone, for ex. cervical.

ok that were the basics. when you creat a player model you surely created the meshes, now you need to add the bones and tags. but because the bones have to be excatly the same as the original you have to import the ones from the original. if you use them from the model and skining pack by raven to get a model with meshes, bones and tags. the meshes you dont need, you created them on your own. in this version the bones are small green cubes (different then they was in JO model pack, but you can use them the same way) called "DaVinciMale.bonename" as you wrote.

take a look at the hirarchie of the raven models an the things will be much clearer. just keep in mind there are two kinds of relations and three basic elements. dont confuse that and you will get the point of Tim 'spacemonkey' Appleby tutorial.

12-12-2003, 06:01 AM
Thanks for your helpful reply... :D

We (my friend and I) have been hard out the last week making this playermodel, and now have reduced the polys, segmented, capped, uv mapped, skinned, and attached the bone structure using Skin modifiers (weighted)... :sweat:
I then used the linker script to link the objects based on name.

Next we thought hmm, now we export and assimilate, right...
Think again...

1. I used the default settings in the XSI exporter for MAX, and unchecked the "Animation" box...

2. Then called the file root.xsi in the models/players/_humanoid folder...

Copyed a copy of the _humanoid.gla file to that folder...

Put assimilate in c:\base folder
Put carcass in c:\base\models\players\_humanoid folder

Ran assimilate, figured out how to do the prefs...
Added the _humanoid.gla file...
Clicked the B button
Chose _humanoid.car as the name of file

then carcass pops up in a window with:

Carcass (GLA/GLM compiler) v2.1. (C) Raven Software 1998-2003.
Written by Gil Gribb, Ste Cork, James Monroe, Mike Crowns

-------- C:\base\models\players\_humanoid\_humanoid.car --------
( Build trigger: "c:\base\models\players\_humanoid\_humanoid.glm" missing )
entering c:\base\models\players\_humanoid\_humanoid.car
(90 degree skewing OFF)
Loading GLA "models/players/_humanoid/_humanoid.gla"...21376 frames
( Using bonecap file: "c:/base/models/players/_humanoid/_humanoid.bonecap" )
Grabbed 1 files with 21376 frames
Processing 'c:/base/models/players/_humanoid/root.XSI'
Unable to find bone "upper_lumbar" referenced in this mesh
( Press any Key ... )

So Carcass thinks there is no upper_lumbar bone... :mad:

(The first time I ran it, it thought there was no lower_lumbar bone, so I chose "Export bones as geometry" instead of the default "export bones as null" option in the XSI exporter options...)

So, I had a look in root.xsi with notepad... and saw there is an upper_lumbar in there... but obviously something is wrong...

Any tips? :confused:

Oh, and I've learned a whole lot about welding, UWV mapping, and weighting in the last 4 days... whew, don't do anything in the wrong order, or you'll pay for it in the next stage, thats for sure...