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View Full Version : Enhanced Add: Make Absorb better


Marker0077
12-12-2003, 08:42 PM
No one wants to be on the light side, it's just not worth it. Dark side has forces that do damage while light side forces just protect you but appearently not well enough because no one will use them.

Look at the new drain (like dark force heal), not only does it now suck your force mana, it also can take your health as well; Not only that, it can also grapple you at a close distance. That's a pretty big thing to add to the dark side without adding anything to the light side when most people used the dark side already.

What I am suggesting is you make force absorb absorb faster (maybe even extend the time on it) & if the force mana is full then it starts to fill up the health as well.

t3rr0r
12-12-2003, 08:56 PM
well, one thing that could even things out (if it really need its) would be to remove the aura around the player... keep the sound, but it'd be harder to tell if you're wasting lightning or something.

Marker0077
12-12-2003, 09:27 PM
I don't think removing the dark side users ability to tell when someone is using absorb is the answer, especially considering they can only tell that they are using absorb when a dark side force power is used while absorb is in use. If people don't know why their attack isn't working, they're liable to get pist. Can't say I blame them.

Go in some games online, how many light side users do you see? There's not many man. Dark side powers have the upper hand, it needs to be balanced.

Some of the stuff I put in the new force powers thread would help out as well, especially the clone one.

t3rr0r
12-12-2003, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by Marker0077
Go in some games online, how many light side users do you see? There's not many man. Dark side powers have the upper hand, it needs to be balanced.
actually i see many light side users... they foil my lightning often.

The Count
12-13-2003, 12:10 AM
Just make it like it is in SP; that was fine in there; also do the same for the other Light Force Powers.

Marker0077
12-13-2003, 01:16 AM
I thought it was. What difference are you referring to?

Kurgan
12-13-2003, 08:25 AM
What are you talking about?

Drain in JA MP works the same as it did in JK2.

It steals enemies mana and uses it to heal you.

It "works" just like red lightning. It doesn't grapple, and it doesn't steal health.

Absorb completely counters it.

The SP version is completely different.


I play lightside a lot and it's fine. The only place it's controversial is in FF one on one duels, where the elite guys claim that Lightside is useless (I don't know, I don't play enough FF duels to know if they're right).

Lathain Valtiel
12-13-2003, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by Kurgan
What are you talking about?

Drain in JA MP works the same as it did in JK2.

It steals enemies mana and uses it to heal you.

It "works" just like red lightning. It doesn't grapple, and it doesn't steal health.

Absorb completely counters it.

The SP version is completely different.


I play lightside a lot and it's fine. The only place it's controversial is in FF one on one duels, where the elite guys claim that Lightside is useless (I don't know, I don't play enough FF duels to know if they're right).

They are correct. It is virtually useless compared to Dark Side, simply because:

1) Heal can't heal fast enough, nothing compared to Drain
2) Protect just isn't enough in terms of protection, plus it's weaknesses consist of, surprise, Drain and Lightning, Drain moreso.
3) If Mind Tricked just jump around, one swing, miss, they appear. Plus, a Lv. 1 Seeing reveals a Lv. 3 Mind Tricker.

Only useful power is Absorb because it foils DSide, but the elite can hear it, and just not use Dside until they DON'T hear it, and promptly suck you dry with Drain and otherwise cause pain.

Marker0077
12-13-2003, 11:45 AM
I could have swore that the drain in MP takes health if force power is drained. I know that wasn't in JK2 at all.

Either way though, dark side users have a total upper hand & it should be balanced.

Kurgan
12-14-2003, 10:14 AM
As far as I know, Drain in JA MP operates exactly as it did in JK2 MP.

Ie: It drains enemy force mana and uses it to heal you.

It doesn't take away health from the enemy and it doesn't ever grapple you.



Are you saying if a person has NO MANA that they will have health stolen instead? I don't think so. If this occurs all that should happen is the person draining you won't get any health back, and your mana will stay gone longer.

Again I think you're confusing JA SP with MP.


If you're saying the force system is unbalanced fine (I disagree, but oh well). However I don't think making it like SP is going to help you, because that's not exactly balanced either or even feasible with lag.

Balancing it would be a huge chore!

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Feel free to ignore the rest of this post if you get the point!
=========================================

Here's a random list (put the light side ones in bold):

you can use protect and absorb at the same time,

absorb gives off a constant blue effect (not just when somebody uses the force on you). and before you say that this is only because it's Single Player, realize that if NPC's use Absorb you can always see the constant blue effect. In MP the effect is invisible (except to the user) until it's acted upon by an offensive force power.

heal takes effect gradually and requires meditation at low levels

drain steals health and requires close contact at low levels while you slowly grapple them,

two handed double damage lightning is possible simply by shutting off your saber,

speed slows down the world around you,

all the powers have more graphic intensive effects that would lag the game more,

absorb & protect have a delay and slight imobilization at low levels,

seeing reveals everything not just enemies/allies and they are color coded with health bars at the highest level,

mind trick at high levels turns people to your side for a short time or causes them to be confused and see things that aren't there,

world objects can be pushed/pulled,

Grip is much more powerful overall at high levels

Seeing won't let you dodge Disruptor shots,

No Team Heal/Energize powers

Saber Throw homes in on enemies at high levels and there's a more pronounced difference in speed as you go up levels

Rage is more powerful (much lower cost in health to use it) though it has a slight delay/immobilizing effect at the start on lower levels

you can randomly "matrix dodge" disruptor shots in slow motion (happens more often at low difficulty levels) which reminds me you can also "lean" though its not very useful for dodging, only sneaking looks around corners

That reminds me, the saber moves are also way unbalanced in JA SP (if applied to MP):

rolling can be down anytime and is slower

wall runs can be done with any weapon

acrobatic moves (including wall runs and rolls) can only be done in third person view

twirls can be done while moving

Twirls and Butterfly/Cartwheels use no mana (IIRC)

Concussion Rifle shots can be much more easily pushed back and secondary shots can be blocked (at least the enemies can do it, forget if you can or not)

You can't block Disruptor shots with your saber

the Saber Barrier has a fixed camera angle

you can walk during some of the Katas

Spin Kicks and other kick moves not found in MP have slow mo "thereisnospoon" effects to them

Kicks auto-aim

You can Pull-Stab/Pull-Slash (it's an actual move, not just a follow up combo)

You can perform more actions during wall-hangs (like switching to any weapon and using it.. you just can't aim)

You can spin during the DFA move (Strong Stance)

Flip Kicks work for all saber types & styles and in melee mode (with a cvar so I'm including it as a difference)

Long Jump move is present with a thereisnospoon effect

Fast Stance (Dual Sabers with one blade off) lacks the Lunge move

The swings are also different for each of the stances for each of the sabers, and the walk/run behavior has a very different feel.

Plus vehicle handling is different and the guns are crappy!

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Point being that balancing SP for MP use would be a lot more work than simply "tweaking" MP to your liking.

Marker0077
12-15-2003, 03:13 AM
I normally play NF or NF with jump only, so I don't know about this first hand, however, I do know a variety of people who play with forces & well over 90% of them use dark forces - that tells me something.

I did play FF a bit in JK2 & it was uneven there, so if it is the same with JK3 then I recommend there be more balancing done in JK2, not with this "taking health when there is no force mana" idea but definitely in some other way(s).

Kurgan
12-15-2003, 06:58 AM
I normally play NF or NF with jump only, so I don't know about this first hand, however, I do know a variety of people who play with forces & well over 90% of them use dark forces - that tells me something.

That may or may not mean anything though. If everybody plays Dark Side, then of course they won't be any good with Lightside, being unfamiliar, so they'll assume it sucks and the cycle repeats.

Now I'm not saying I'm the grand champion of the galaxy or anything (I'm not), but I do pretty well with Lightside, but then I don't do much FF dueling, so maybe I'm missing out on this supposed imbalance issue.


I did play FF a bit in JK2 & it was uneven there, so if it is the same with JK3 then I recommend there be more balancing done in JK2, not with this "taking health when there is no force mana" idea but definitely in some other way(s).

There are various changes in JA from JK2. For example you'll hear people like Unnamed complain about how grip is "nerfed" (because you can't grip a person around a corner so they can't counter it).

If you don't play FF in JA, I would suggest you do so and learn it well before you say it's unbalanced and needs to be changed though. No offense....

Radd
01-04-2004, 12:19 AM
I've been using the Light Side almost constantly since Jedi Outcast. It just suits me. As far as I've seen, none of the force powers in the game are cheap, because the light side and dark side balance so well (kudos to Raven). Unfortunately, most people assume the Dark Side is better because it has more offensive potential, while the Light Side is all defense and retoring health.

Bull. Complete and utter. Light Side powers are just as useful as Dark Side powers, just in different ways. While Dark Side powers are all about getting an advantage over your opponent, Light Side powers are more about standing your ground, and leveling the playing field. This is also why I think it's an atrocity to remove certain Force powers from the game, since THAT is what unbalances the gameplay.

Force Absorb is my favourite Force power, simply because it's the game's biggest equalizer. There's no room for anyone to complain about 'Grip Whores' or "Lightning Newbs' or anything like that because you can always either use the same powers against them, or, as a Light Side user, use Force Absorb and settle things the civilized way. Chopping each other's limbs off and killing them until they're dead.

My only gripe is that Force Absorb doesn't work against all force powers completely. Force Push and Force Pull will still stall a Light Side user that has Force Absorb on. That can be enough for someone to chase them down, or stall them in midair when they're jumping. I wish that those powers wouldn't effect someone using Force Absorb at all, at least at the higher levels.

Darth Sun
01-04-2004, 01:57 AM
Radd, Absorb only works on Dark Side powers, that's why push and pull aren't countered by Absorb since they are considered "neutral" Force powers.

Marker0077
01-04-2004, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by Radd
Bull. Complete and utter. Light Side powers are just as useful as Dark Side powers, just in different ways.Well everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'm not personally a force power user but I am in constant communication with a pretty vass amount of the community & 9 out of 10 times it's the same thing. No offense but I personally feel that you might see the unbalance a little more clearly if you went against Daelina, he's pretty much the equivelent of what I could do in JK2 NF.

Whatever though, it's really neither here nor there. I appreciate your feedback on this but the majority of the people still say it's unbalanced & I don't have time for finding out for myself.Originally posted by Radd
This is also why I think it's an atrocity to remove certain Force powers from the game, since THAT is what unbalances the gameplay.Who said anything about removing any force powers? We're adding onto them, not removing them dude.Originally posted by Radd
My only gripe is that Force Absorb doesn't work against all force powers completely. Force Push and Force Pull will still stall a Light Side user that has Force Absorb on.Not a bad idea. I'm personally a fan of the deflect force power. It works like absorb but instead of absorbing the force power it deflects it back at the opponent.

Originally posted by Darth Sun
Radd, Absorb only works on Dark Side powers...ummm, no it doesn't. Matter fact, Absorb is probably the most used light side force power there is. It was also that way in JK2.

I think you meant to say Light Side but you didn't, thought I would clarify.

Anyways, whether or not they are neutral force powers or not, I too think they should be covered. Force power is a force power. Dark Side users can just wait until the Absorb wears out & go for the attack; Granted yes, the Absorb force power does take more time to consume the mana gauge but it's not a world of difference IMO. I still think Dark Side users have the upper hand. This would help a little.

Admiral Chemix
01-06-2004, 06:10 PM
I play full force at all times and let me tell ya, it's unbalance, lightside sucks, the powers barely defend the player, I despise absorb spammers, they use absorb the whole stinkin time, I'd change the effect, it's too similar to that of the in ffa duel effect. The light side powers suck, I only use 1 of them in sp, Force protect mostly because it looks cool and effectivly reduces damage. In MP nearly everyone uses darkside powers, grip and lighting are commonly spammed. I despise lightning mainly because of bots, they use it as soon as their force pool allows it, to tell the truth, the power I use the most in mp is drain, plain and simple, drains others force for my health. DOES NOT EFFECT ENEMY HEALTH. It works way better than heal. And it helps offense. Dark Side rules, until I see some decent light side powers I'm sticking to dark side abilities,

razorace
01-06-2004, 06:54 PM
Moderator Note: Please remove double/triple posts, thanks.

Admiral Chemix
01-06-2004, 08:16 PM
sorry about the double post, it's the vb version certain people get "serious issues with it" like all the sudden it will not load or non intentional double postings, honestly is it that hard for these people to upgrade to vb 3

Admiral Chemix
01-06-2004, 08:17 PM
Moderator Note: That's fine. Just delete the extras after you get the bloody thing to post. :)

babywax
01-06-2004, 08:31 PM
My views on lightside powers:
Absorb - Fine the way it is
Protect - Needs to protect more, and last longer while protecting. Look at Dark Rage, it protects FAR more, and it adds dmg, speed etc...
Heal - I like it, unlike drain it is more of a "use after fights" power, because it uses so much force. It is really a force power to get you back into the fight faster, instead of keep you in it longer.
Mind Trick - Good, except that level 1 Seeing reveals a level 3 Mind Trick. Make level 1 Seeing reveal level 1 Mind Trick, and level 2 Seeing reveal level 2 Mind Trick etc.. Then it will be balanced.

Marker0077
01-07-2004, 10:20 AM
Well MO is obvious, I think Absorb needs to be upped. As far as "lightsabers use it all the time" well of course they use it all the time, it's how they counter dark force powers - duh. This also makes it true to the movies if you think about it because when its a light vs dark user, they don't use force powers alot.