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slider
12-10-2003, 10:30 PM
hello i am pleased to show u my super mod ja+ mod 1.3....

u can find it here
http://www.pcgamemods.com/3375/


THis server side MOd is designed to add cool Features and enable admin commands In order to keep order on the server.
This mod will not change all the gameplay of the game.
It will simply add fun features or enhence features in order to satisfy academy clan.

Example of features ==> multiple duel at one, duel full force, flipkicks, admin commands , emots and more...





////////////////////////////////////////////
Features ADDED in all versions
////////////////////////////////////////////
***********************************
Features in 1.3 version:
************************************
- NPC cmd works for admin council without cheat
- add weapon melee for player controled by cvar jp_giveWP_MELEE
- remove bug about randomly arm breaks :)
- more emots : ampower, ambeg,amflip
- emot amthrow now works ==> it takes a player and throw it far away :)
-more admin function : amprotect ,amsilence ,amunsilence, ampunsish, amunpunish, amempower, amunempower
- added rcon cmd admGrant to grant user admin access
- more admin functions in order to exec admin commands without going into the console :
admCmdPrev,admCmdNext,playerPrev,playerNext,admCmd EXE
see the file admin.cfg that contain MY Script of binded CMDs ==> edit it with bloc note and change the bind key
-enable push/pull on knockdown players controlled by cvar jp_pushPullKnockDown


************************************
Features in 1.2 version:
************************************
-isolation of Full force Duelers fully works fine :) => no interaction with other players
- amban now working :)
- add the command aminfo to display all command in game
- more admin commandes ammap, amsleep, amwake, amslap, ampsay,ambreakarm, amunbreakarm
- more emots : amthrow, amknockmedown,amspin, amdropsaber

************************************
Features in 1.1 version:
************************************
-remove a big bug on kick flip back ==> now flipkick management works fine :)

************************************
Features in 1.0 version:
************************************
- support for both linux and windows
-admin commande for lamers :) amkick, amban, amwhois, amtele, amorigin, amslay, amstatus, amlogin, amlogout
- Multiple Duel At Once
- duel start with 100/100 and winner gets its health and sheild regenerated to 100/25
- don't put saber on at duel start
- Show Health/Armor left of the winner at duel end
- Full FOrce Duel allowed (see the command "engage_FullForceDuel" )
- Show Motd when client enter the game at the center of the screen (see Cvar jp_motd and jp_motdtime)
- kick and side kick like in JK2 game ( see Cvar jp_allowflipkick )
- emots allowed in every gametype like those of duel/powerDuel GameType : taunt ,meditate, bow, gloat, flourish

Master William
12-10-2003, 11:13 PM
Hehe, I like this... I played this on a server a few hours ago, and me and my friend kept spamming the JK2 kicks... Man, it's so easy to abuse it, because when they get up from falling, you can kick them down again, and again. I did this with a guy until the kicks killed him.

TK-8252
12-10-2003, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by slider
amprotect , ampunsish, amempower, amslap, ambreakarm, amslay Psst... take these out! No point in these.

acdcfanbill
12-11-2003, 01:36 AM
so you like this mod with kicks but dislike a different mod with kicks? explain to me, your reasoning behind that please ;)

Jedi Luke
12-11-2003, 02:30 AM
Sweet!! Downloading it now :) .

Kurgan
12-11-2003, 04:38 AM
Argh!


Another perfectly promising Admin Mod ruined by the presence of the infamous "amlaming" abusive commands (slap, slay, sleep, etc).


When will mod authors learn that this stuff positively killed the fun in the JK2 community? It made every 12 year old admin with a chip on his shoulder into a bully with god-like delusions.


They can do no better this time around. Break the chain...



Just say "no" to AMLaming!

atx250
12-11-2003, 07:37 AM
Ignore these people m8. They are biased. Some servers will be much appreciative for the mod. You guys should realise this, JA is goin downhill, without these mods JA wont even have a Halflife That JO had. Its just for fun man, i aint gonna waste my time doin all that stuff to to lamers and idiots, ill just kick em. These commands are specifically for my friends. MWhahahahahahahah




atx250

Kurgan
12-11-2003, 08:24 AM
My suggestion would be if you want to keep the amlame commands, put them into a seperate mode (requiring a map restart) similar to how cheats only work with "devmap."

That way you avoid the temptation for an admin to bully the people who join his server and use them to "cheat" his way to a cheap power-trip victory.

Just a thought. ; )


And atx, how exactly will "these mods" extend the life of JA?

What do you mean "without these mods" JA won't have half the life that JO did?

I think you're mistaken. You can read hundreds of complaints on these forums (and other forums) about how people were positively FED UP with all the admin abuse in JK2. And that was a direct result of the "amslap" type commands put into each and every one of these mods (why every author felt the need to copy his peers I'll never guess).

Now it's happening again in JA. But it's happened more quickly because of the code similarities. We had admin mods (complete with amslap, sleep, slay, teleport, etc) within HOURS of the SDK being released!

Far from extending the life of the game, it will merely shorten it, while it shortens the tempers of those who just want to play a fun game, not a game of "Obedience School" with some hot-head kid admin. ; p

Teancum
12-11-2003, 08:37 AM
IMO things like ampunish are just unneeded. It gives way to exactly what Kurgan was talking about. Silence me, okay, kick me, okay -- at least I know I'm not welcome there. But, I agree that some admin commands are going too far. The purpose of an admin as far as gameplay goes is only to keep the peace and therefore he/she only needs such abilities. For instance, I saw an admin *I suppose* empower another friend (or he may have already been an admin too) and they kept punishing people by teleporting them into this little spot on one FFA map that was caged in and had a fire going... So people just sat there and roasted. Over and over. I was just lucky not to be chosen.

I'm not pro admin commands or anti. I see both sides, and this is a way for all to be happy.

razorace
12-11-2003, 10:26 AM
I don't see the point of doing this mod. It's almost exactly like OMNImod and JA Reloaded. Why not try cooperating with one of them or joining a colaberative community project like OJP (http://www.lucasforums.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=542)?

atx250
12-11-2003, 10:40 AM
@ Krugan

If thats the case, then Jo would have died a horrable death, Mods are not what is killing this game, they are saving it. keeping people interested. The proof is in JO, mod usage is widespread, and has been ever since i have been playing (didnt play multi right from the release). Yet that game had a great online life. Its the Randomness of saber combat that could put the final nail in the coffin for a lot of peeps. I find myself yearning for JO, i still play it but my buddys are in JA. I think IF these mods were not released, you would have seen a lot of players goin back to JO, in fact i did see a lot of people that went back before mods were released.


[Please note]
IMHO



atx250

show7
12-11-2003, 11:12 AM
it is not admin like mod that kills the gamplay but admin.....

it is to the responsability or each server admin to choose the good future admin.......

and a server without mod, but with bad admins can waste a lot the gameplay only with /rcon clientkick



so mods don't change the gameplay....
Bad admin behaviours change the gamplay with or without this mod

slider
12-11-2003, 11:18 AM
yes u absolutly right show7.....


and my mod is very different from other

the admin mod is much more complete

and there are unique feature like side kick, kick, duel full force ....

shukrallah
12-11-2003, 12:38 PM
*sigh*

well, the jedi academy mod took these commands out, but you could tell someone would throw them in.

Prime
12-11-2003, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by atx250
JA is goin downhill, without these mods JA wont even have a Halflife That JO had. So features like:-more admin function : amprotect ,amsilence ,amunsilence, ampunsish, amunpunish,amempower, amunempower
- added rcon cmd admGrant to grant user admin accessis what is going to stop JA from going downhill? If that is the case, I say let the game die.

Master William
12-11-2003, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by acdcfanbill
so you like this mod with kicks but dislike a different mod with kicks? explain to me, your reasoning behind that please ;)

I like them both, I didn't before. I just tried them once both, and found out it was quite fun. Mostly because of the fun, I wouldn't enjoy serious fights and all that. Me and my friend mostly fooled around in Xmod and JA+ mod, running around acting like Agents.

Kurgan
12-11-2003, 06:53 PM
@ Krugan

If thats the case, then Jo would have died a horrable death, Mods are not what is killing this game, they are saving it. keeping people interested. The proof is in JO, mod usage is widespread, and has been ever since i have been playing (didnt play multi right from the release).

The people who are still playing JK2 now are in large part the "honor dudes" and the RPG players. While not everyone uses Admin Mods (the majority don't) the ones that still do are the people who favor a "non-competative" style of play... ie: sitting around trading emotes and chatting while a few people "bow & slowly duel."

Lots of people quit playing the game due to the Admin Mods and their widespread abuse.

Before the release of the first Admin Mods with amlaming commands I'm sure JK2 flourished, but it's been steadily damaged as a result.

And don't go lumping ALL MODS into the category of amlaming. It's a totally different thing.

Most mods do NOT give you godlike powers that facilitate abusing and humiliating guests who join your server.

New skins, new maps, new sabers, those enhance gameplay without unbalancing it in favor of 12 year old admins who just want to win at all costs and "punish" people who don't "respect their authoritah." ; )


Yet that game had a great online life. Its the Randomness of saber combat that could put the final nail in the coffin for a lot of peeps. I find myself yearning for JO, i still play it but my buddys are in JA. I think IF these mods were not released, you would have seen a lot of players goin back to JO, in fact i did see a lot of people that went back before mods were released.

So you're saying the only thing that keeps people coming back are Admin Mods with amlaming commands? That's absurd.

Maybe that's true for the "honor d00ds" and the RPG players, but the competative players can't stand those mods, and that's why in large part they've moved on. Now that the SDK is out and the floodgates are open, mod authors have a responsibility not to repeat the mistakes of the JK2 community.

I'd say the strength and longevity of JK2 is IN SPITE of the Admin Mods, NOT BECAUSE OF IT.

The reason people come back is because these are good games, despite how Admin Mod authors have tried (perhaps inadvertantly) to ruin it by making it only fun for RPG and "honor" players.


If Admin Mods were the only thing keeping JK2 afloat, you'd think ALL servers would be running them not just 50%.


The fact is, the widespread use of amlaming enabled Admin Mods makes it hard to find public servers to play on if you're interested in a game and not a bowing/emote fest where you have to suck up to the Admin in order to stop from being slapped/sleeped/slayed and turned into a bunny all night.

Think about it, 1 out of every 2 servers will likely be an Admin Mod. That's enough to frustrate a lot of people just looking to actually PLAY the game it was meant to be played.


Admin Mods in and of themselves aren't bad, far from it. It's the fact that Admin Mods tend to parrot each other by including those gratuitus and abuse-prone "amlaming" mods (slap, sleep, slay, teleport, bunny, empower, punish, etc), that gives them a bad name and turns players away (except for the loud minority who actually enjoy non-competative "honor" dueling/RPGing).

is not admin like mod that kills the gamplay but admin.....

it is to the responsability or each server admin to choose the good future admin.......

and a server without mod, but with bad admins can waste a lot the gameplay only with /rcon clientkick



so mods don't change the gameplay....
Bad admin behaviours change the gamplay with or without this mod

That's all well and good to say that, but let's try an analogy.

Somebody brought up the "gun rights" debate (the real life one about gun ownership say in the US) on another forum about admin mods. I think we should examine this analogy.

They quote the popular slogan "Guns don't kill people, people kill people!" and that's true. A gun doesn't kill a person by itself, it needs a person to pull the trigger. So as long as people who have guns don't use them to kill, there will be no gun deaths theoretically.

But, of course this analogy used with Admin Mods' amlaming commands falls flat for several reasons:


1) In real life, gun ownership (legally) has several safeguards to PREVENT abuse. These include mandatory safety/training courses, liscenses/registration, waiting periods, background checks, prohibitions against minors purchasing, limitations on caliber and auto features (ie: we don't let ordinary civilians purchase military grade assault weapons anymore unless they don't work anymore).

Admin Mods have NO requirements to filter out people who will abuse them. The only requirement to get one is that you can download a file to your hard drive.

2) In real life, there are HIGH PENALTIES if you abuse a gun (ie: fines, jail time, possibly even execution if you murder somebody, in several states). Not to mention hidden costs like court & lawyer fees, criminal investigations, etc.

There are NO penalites if you abuse an Admin Mod. People get mad and leave your server, that's the worst that can happen.



So taken to its logical conclusion, creating "amlame" Admin Mods and providing them to the community is like handing out Assault Weapons to kids.

If you can't trust a little kid to handle an assault rifle safely and in a non-abusive manner, how can you trust a little kid to operate an Admin Mod that gives him god-like powers and the ability to humilate guests on his server and CHOOSE NOT abuse those commands?

Obviously giving real Assault Weapons to kids would have more dire consequences, but it's just an analogy. I hope you see where I was going with this.

Might as well give him some yummy candy and say "don't eat this.. I'm going to go away now and never check to see if you obeyed me, but I trust you just to hold it."

Admins can always abuse their power, but Amlaming mods just make it MUCH EASIER for them to abuse things and makes the problem much worse, instead of helping.


Since "good" Admins won't need to use these commands, what's the point of having them in the first place? "Bad" Admins will simply take advantage of them and promote their abuse. Why not just remove them altogether?


Sorry for the long-winded rants, but I really feel strongly about this issue.

I'm not just giving you crap either. I told the Xmod2 author the same thing. He eventually came around when he realized the majority of his fans were against the idea of "amlaming" and has since removed those "features" for his next release (kudos to him).

The JA Reloaded author also saw the light and removed the abusive commands from his mod (and his "Jedi Academy Mod" was the most popular Admin Mod in JK2!).


If people left JA to play JK2, it was because of the GAMEPLAY DIFFERENCES, NOT because of the Admin Mods.


In fact, many players were HAPPY that Admin Mods had not yet been released for JA (until the SDK came out), because they could finally escape the abusive Admins and their huge egos and trigger happy slap/slay/punish binds.

Admin Mods are a dime a dozen. They all provide the same crappy "admin" features. What sets them apart are the OTHER features they offer.

So rather than promoting amlaming abuse, promote the other features your mod provides. You can have useful functions like black names, full force duels, multiple duels, multiple MOTD's, multi-level admins and a seperate BannedIP's file, those are good. Just remove the stuff that ruins gameplay like the amlame functions.

If people want that they can always just use OmNiMod. ; p

Prime
12-11-2003, 08:07 PM
Kurgan, please stop spamming the boards. If you have something to add, please use the Edit button located at the bottom of your post. This is not a chatroom.





j/k of course. Sorry, I couldn't resist :D

Kurgan
12-11-2003, 08:41 PM
Heh. I could combine them all into one super post. I was going to do that but then I remembered how people often complain "your post was so long I just didn't read it."

Update: There. Done. What do you think? =)

razorace
12-11-2003, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by slider
side kick
xmod2, JK2
kick,
I assume you mean the flip kick. xmod2, JK2
duel full force ....
I'm not sure what you mean by that...Do you mean that you can have full force power skils in duel?

That's not exactly much to justice your mod over the alternatives.

Master William
12-11-2003, 11:05 PM
Cannot install a single damn admin mod. They never even appear in the damn mod list, nor does the fs set_game thingie work.

Kurgan
12-12-2003, 12:07 AM
Are you sure? Most of them are pretty transparent. Check your console and see if any of the admin commands work (assuming you're logged in as the admin).

I was trying out OmNi mod the other day, slapping/slaying/sleeping bots left and right.

It got pretty boring fast. ; p

Prime
12-12-2003, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
Update: There. Done. What do you think? =) I think your posts are too long :D

Originally posted by Kurgan
I'd say the strength and longevity of JK2 is IN SPITE of the Admin Mods, NOT BECAUSE OF IT. I couldn't agree more.

zERoCooL2479
12-13-2003, 02:51 PM
Jeez, he even copied some of my text from the Readme. These damn kids today...

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-13-2003, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
The people who are still playing JK2 now are in large part the "honor dudes" and the RPG players.

Not necessarily true. This post is from the Jedi Outcast forum:

Originally posted by Tosh_UK
All i can say is with the lack in Fanboys in JOII now its way much better game than it use to be... and i am in no rush to play JA anyways.

I think a lot of the fanboys\honor doods whined and whined until Mommy bought them that kewl new Star Wars® Jedi Knight®: Jedi Academy(tm) game so they could "wander around doing nothing" (as TK puts it) with their friends.

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-13-2003, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by Master William
Cannot install a single damn admin mod. They never even appear in the damn mod list, nor does the fs set_game thingie work.

Um, it's +set fs_game, not fs set_game.

Darth Kaan
12-13-2003, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
Um, it's +set fs_game, not fs set_game.

pwn3d!

Amidala is the Master of the console. :D

Master William
12-13-2003, 07:17 PM
Thank you, Mr.All-knower. I already knew that. I just gave an example of what I mean, because I'm too damn lazy to type the real thing down.
Actually, I think it was set +fs_game instead. Gah, none of them works anyway. I type that in the console, and it doesn't work.

razorace
12-13-2003, 07:28 PM
That's not for the console, it's a command line arguement for your jamp.exe.

Kurgan
12-13-2003, 09:18 PM
I think a lot of the fanboys\honor doods whined and whined until Mommy bought them that kewl new Star Wars® Jedi Knight®: Jedi Academy(tm) game so they could "wander around doing nothing" (as TK puts it) with their friends.

Maybe you're right and I'm wrong. ; )

Though I probably should have said "and those still using admin mods" but I know you'd take issue with that since you're one of those and definatley not a fanb0i (fang1r1?).


I honestly don't play JK2 online anymore, and I was basing my judgement mostly on the plethora of servers using abusive-admin command ladden mods. But since you reguarly host a JK2 server still, you'd know more than me!

noide
12-13-2003, 10:27 PM
i dont think atx knows much. when jk2 first came out people were playing and the community flourished and it was actually considered a fps game with competitive qualities. but then 1.03 came out and with it came adminmods (vulcanus) and those graduated into academy mod and all those others and by the time 1.04 came by a huge amount of players had gotten fed up and quit. most competitive play was destroyed and jk2 ffa was just a 3d chatroom.

those "mods" crushed jk2's life and any reputation it had. and now it seems jk3 wont even have a few months of real play because i can already tell the honor f**s are pissing their pants in anticipation for these admin mods so they can sit around and ruin everyone elses game play. sadly most of ffa admins are honor f**s so that makes the servers honor servers so even if the majority of players want to play they cant because the minority has the control.

i'm just going to stick to my xmod ctf servers where people actually play and there is such thing as competitive play.

/peace

Sarah J
12-13-2003, 10:45 PM
I played on a server running this mod.. Most people was actully playing the game, and not standing around chatting, i didnt bother the chaters, i joined in the ffa, with most people, but the admins there were simply making there server unplayable, there was no rules stated anywhere, admins with protectant bubble on (invincablity) were often walking up to us and killing us and doing /amthrow on us...... i simply did it back to one admin who did it to me, so i got put to sleep, this wasnt just a one off, its the 2nd time this has happened in 1 day on this mod....... now tell me, is this really nessesary to keep a server under controll? or a simple kick or ban?. Admins running all over the place on tauntauns with protectant on sabering people that cant fight back......is this what you want ja turning into slider ?

I also found simular actions on omni mod servers... the only servers i have found playable is basejka, and people in the basejka servers really do have fun and play the game rather than walking around complaining about being killed with your saber down........even though you respawn again.

sorry for my bad spelling

Darth Kaan
12-13-2003, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by razorace
That's not for the console, it's a command line arguement for your jamp.exe.

Exactly! Which is why he is having problems with getting them to work. :D

Admiral Chemix
12-14-2003, 04:55 PM
kick, ban are sometimes not the best solutions, some people are smarter than that so if you can stop them form having fun, they'll stop coming back. I like these admin emotes though I think you should make more just fine old player emotes. Introduce a few new game modes into the selection like specialties and jedi vs merc, perhaps some others. I'd also make this more a client mod aswell. Adding level 4-5 force powers and some new force ranks would be nice. Adding things like melee and perhaps some new force powers, like an ability that gives someone others force powers aswell (would look like a green version of singleplayer drain, would make a very cool dark side power, perhaps a jedi lightning power, slightly stronger than that of the darkside(for balance) and a light side ability of lightning absorbsion where lightning is absorbed by the lightsaber and effects only force. Add RGB sabers and some new styles, such as alternate styles for dual sabers and saber staffs. And balance out the strong style, even though slow it shouldn't be an instant kill weapon, many abuse this. Oh and add the speed warp that apears in SP, adds more realism and controle to the power, I'd also add some admin timescale options, anyways your mod is well on it's way

Sarah J
12-14-2003, 05:15 PM
but the punishment commands are used and abused on people doing no harm to the rules, 99 % of the time

TK-8252
12-14-2003, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by Sarah J
but the punishment commands are used and abused on people doing no harm to the rules, 99 % of the time True... but still, just because one bee stings doesn't mean the whole hive is responsible.

_PerfectAgent_
12-14-2003, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
kick, ban are sometimes not the best solutions, some people are smarter than that so if you can stop them form having fun, they'll stop coming back.
Usually, that's not the case. Going back to the main menu and having to load stuff again is annoying...

I like these admin emotes though I think you should make more just fine old player emotes.
The emotes that come with the game are fine. Besides, new emotes that are on/off make you float in air and become invincible. (Really abusable in CTF!)

Introduce a few new game modes into the selection like specialties and jedi vs merc, perhaps some others. I'd also make this more a client mod aswell.
Not many people would download it then.

Adding things like melee and perhaps some new force powers, like an ability that gives someone others force powers aswell (would look like a green version of singleplayer drain, would make a very cool dark side power,
Melee already is in the game. If you are referring to some one replenishing some one else's force pool, that's already in the game.

perhaps a jedi lightning power, slightly stronger than that of the darkside(for balance) and a light side ability of lightning absorbsion where lightning is absorbed by the lightsaber and effects only force.
I thought the idea was cool at first, but then that would make light side more powerful then dark. The absorption is already possible with the absorb power.

Add RGB sabers
Yes! We must have it! We must!!! :slsaber:

Oh and add the speed warp that apears in SP, adds more realism and controle to the power, I'd also add some admin timescale options, anyways your mod is well on it's way
In multiplayer, everything would get off balance as for one player would see everything go slow while another would see everything go normal and that person go fast. It would really be impossible to do.

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-14-2003, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by Sarah J
I played on a server running this mod.. Most people was actully playing the game, and not standing around chatting, i didnt bother the chaters, i joined in the ffa, with most people, but the admins there were simply making there server unplayable, there was no rules stated anywhere, admins with protectant bubble on (invincablity) were often walking up to us and killing us and doing /amthrow on us...... i simply did it back to one admin who did it to me, so i got put to sleep, this wasnt just a one off, its the 2nd time this has happened in 1 day on this mod....... now tell me, is this really nessesary to keep a server under controll? or a simple kick or ban?. Admins running all over the place on tauntauns with protectant on sabering people that cant fight back......is this what you want ja turning into slider ?

I also found simular actions on omni mod servers... the only servers i have found playable is basejka, and people in the basejka servers really do have fun and play the game rather than walking around complaining about being killed with your saber down........even though you respawn again.

sorry for my bad spelling
Originally posted by Sarah J
but the punishment commands are used and abused on people doing no harm to the rules, 99 % of the time

I hope all the "honor dudes" who claim player abuse (it's player abuse, not admin abuse, just like child abuse means the children are the victims, not the perpertrators) rarely happens ("I've never seen that happen on my server") read this and see that abusive admins and player abuse are very common with these admin mods, just like we've been trying to tell you.

Sarah J, get the All Seeing Eye http://www.udpsoft.com/eye2/index.html
It will tell you what mod the server is running, if any. Stick with servers that are "base jka" or "Jedi Academy Reloaded" or "xMod2" or "Disruption". Boycott servers with "OmNi Admin Mod" or "JA+ Mod 1.3". Tell all your online friends to do the same.

Boycott servers running abusive admin mods!

slider
12-14-2003, 07:04 PM
here it is !!!!!

the last version 1.4

http://www.pcgamemods.com/3418/

Sarah J
12-14-2003, 07:15 PM
thanks, i played on kurgs server and really enjoyed myself, allthough there was people there complaining alot, but when kurg joined in they complainers was too busy being guned to death to chat:D:D , im going to try chop shop when i have time :D :D :D

slider
12-14-2003, 08:16 PM
it is important that all admins learn to not abuse.....

this mods is made for good and responsible admins.....

if on a server admins are abusing, leave this server

and when there will be nobody on theirs servers, they learn that they must not abuse....

this mod is not the problem


the bad behaviour is the PRoblem.....

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-14-2003, 08:17 PM
Still has all the abuse-prone commands, some people just don't get it.

Kurgan, I applaud your successful campaign with xMod2, and again kudos to cHoSeN oNe for not having to be told to do the right thing to minimize player abuse by abusive admins.

I think there should be a three-pronged attack against admin mods with abusive commands:
[list=1]
Try to persuade modders to remove abuse-prone commands or not put them in in the first place
Players should be encouraged to boycott\avoid servers running admin mods with abuse-prone commands
The admins of LucasFiles, jk3files, pcgamemods, and all the other file hosting sites should agree to not distribute admin mods with abuse-prone commands
[/list=1]
Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana

Like Pearl Harbor or Sept. 11, the admin mod makers caught the Jedi Outcast community asleep and unprepared for the attack. Let's pray we learned something and history won't repeat itself.

slider
12-14-2003, 08:20 PM
i know a lot of server where people come only to lame and waste the gameplay.....

this mod permits to fight with efficiency against thos people......


if admin_lamers use this mod to lame, go to play elsewhere

Kurgan
12-14-2003, 08:44 PM
slider, see, here's the problem.

What you call "laming" is not that big a deal.


By that I assume you mean somebody getting mad when they are attacked with their saber down or while they are chatting, or somebody "spamming" a move over and over right?


The thing is, every player has the power to do those things, in the base game mechanics. And if a player is paying attention and playing, they will never be lamed, logically.

And if somebody "lames" you, who cares? They got what.. 1 point over you? You can easily get them back, unless you persist in standing around with your saber off chatting (and if you're going to do that, why do you care if you lose score-wise)?

"Laming" only occurs when somebody is just standing around chatting or ignoring the battle.

THESE folks are lagging the game and wasting everyone's time.

Why? They are using up bandwidth just chatting (something they could easily do in spectator mode or elsewhere... they should go chat up their friends on IRC instead or exchange emails and go there to talk about whatever). Also they're using up a client slot that somebody who wants to actually play might want to have but can't.

Think of it this way, if a server is "full" with 8 people but only 2 of them are actually playing and the rest are just standing around chatting, isn't that a waste and unfair to the people who want to play trying to connect?


"amlaming" (when admins use commands to lame) is not the same as player laming. This is because the admins have been given special super powers by people like you (the mod authors) that only they possess. These powers, when used, give them the ability (quite frankly) to cheat their way to victory or humilate random people at their whim.

No matter what the other players do, they are never safe from the admin, who can slap or sleep them anytime, for any reason. That's just not fair. Better that he kick them completely than subject them to humiliation in front of everyone.

If other players had these powers, the game would be greatly unbalanced and chaotic, nobody would stand for it.

Yet somehow it's mistakenly believed that giving it to admins is a good idea.

We in the competative and "player centered" community disagree. Too often we see admins abuse these commands in order to further their own egos, rather than "establish order" as you hoped they would use them.

Telling people to "just find another server" isn't so easy.

With more and more servers being seduced by admin mods, it's very difficult to find servers that don't use (and abuse) them.

Treat the cause of the disease, not the symptoms. That means YOU need to take action and remove these commands to stop their abuse.

See what I'm saying?

The fate of a large part of the online community is in your hands!


A final note to slider:

If you REALLY believe in supporting "honor" in JA, I suggest you do the following:

Talk to Master Hex (of clan =X=) the author of Xmod2. He has a marvelous plan for this that does not require the use of slap or any of those abusive commands. His system is called the "honor idle" feature. You really should look into it. It's much more fair, optional and doesn't turn each admin into a petty tyrant who can cheat.

I'm sure he'd be happy to help you make your admin mod better!

Kurgan
12-14-2003, 08:51 PM
No offense slider, but what's the point of updating a mod if it's just going to have the same recycled amlame commands in it?


See one amlame admin mod you've seen them all. It seems every week a new mod is released and it just copies and pastes the same amslap/sleep/slay/punish type of commands that we've seen for years in the JK2 community.

Why do we need MORE of this junk?

I've experienced OmNi Mod first hand, I don't need to go through that again.

So I'm not even going to download your mod until you remove those commands.

If high profile admin mods like Xmod2 and JA Reloaded can do it, why can't you?

As an Admin of a regular JA server, I simply refuse to use something like JA+, even though I personally would never abuse its commands. It's just too big a temptation for too many admins and we've seen the harm it does to communities like JK2.

If the amlame commands are removed, I might consider promoting it though, as would I think many responsible admins.

As the Christmas season approaches we've seen a downturn in server activity for JA (not surprisingly) and we'll likely see an upsurge after Christmas as people bring home their freshly opened gift boxes of JA for the PC & Mac (which is shipping this month).

Don't let their first online experience of JA be ruined by some punk admin slapping, sleeping and "punishing" them. They just want to play the game!

Give the community a Christmas Present of your Own. REMOVE THE AMLAP/SLEEP/SLAY/etc COMMANDS!

The community will be grateful!

_PerfectAgent_
12-14-2003, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by slider
it is important that all admins learn to not abuse.....
But there is no way to insure that they learn.

this mods is made for good and responsible admins.....
But that does not mean that irresponsible and abusive admins won't get it too.

if on a server admins are abusing, leave this server
To probably run into another server with the same problem.

and when there will be nobody on theirs servers, they learn that they must not abuse....
But people go to the abuse prone servers anyway.

this mod is not the problem
Yes, it is.

the bad behaviour is the PRoblem.....
The problem is bad behavior coupled with the admin mods with abusive commands.

i know a lot of server where people come only to lame
Which is part of the game and never was a "problem" in JK2 1.02 or in Jedi Knight.

and waste the gameplay.....
:confused: Gameplay is not something that can be wasted, it is an element that makes a game fun.

this mod permits to fight with efficiency against thos people......
If you really want to "fight" against those people:
:deathii: Warn them about their "offence."
:deathii: Kick them from the server if they continue.
:deathii: Ban them from the server if they come back and continue their "offence."

This was never a problem in any other game (except for JK2 1.04).

if admin_lamers use this mod to lame, go to play elsewhere
To probably run into another server with the same problem.

FK | unnamed
12-14-2003, 09:20 PM
You know what would be nice this time around?

A true TC other than a movie adaptation.

Remember that gladiator mod that came out?

Killer stuff.

We need more mods like that and less "admin mods".

=X= mod has pretty much 100% of the competitive saber/force players backing it so it's safe to say that mod is going have a lock on the "let's fix JKA" mods.


Jedi Academy Reloaded has a lock on the emote/honor crowd.


So rather than have 90 million Jedi/Vulcan/Academy/+++++/Pro/Reloaded hybrids that are all basically the same thing, why not have mod makers really focus on bringing something new and unseen into the game this time around?

Just a suggestion.

Kurgan
12-14-2003, 09:28 PM
And don't forget OJP for the single player tweak side of things (with some MP tweaks too of course)!

I agree, admin mods are quickly becoming a dime a dozen, just like they were in JK2.

Just the other day I noticed a "JA Revolutions" that sounded like a carbon copy of JA+.

All they do is just copy and paste the same commands anyway and give it a different name. What's the point?

I agree Unnamed, these guys need to make something worthwhile and new! We only need ONE admin mod and we've already got 5 (and each of them has had multiple versions of course).

slider
12-14-2003, 09:46 PM
1 - my mod is not on ly a admin mod
2- it contain very cool features as duel full force, flip ckick, emots
3- the admin cmds permiits to fight against lamers
4- if admins abuse, go to play elsewhere
5- if u don't like my work, don't install it and leave this thread
6- with ja realoded, there si all cmd needed to abuse like in my mod

slider
12-14-2003, 09:49 PM
7 ; the cmds allowed for admins is totally configurable so that if you want , you can suprress all cmds execpt for example the kick

slider
12-14-2003, 09:51 PM
8 don't change the name of my topics

you are abusing of your admin right

slider
12-14-2003, 09:54 PM
9 - if admins are good, there is never problems

server owner like you must the choose the good one
it is your job

if you do not do that, there will be abuse with my mod or others like ja relaoded


10- alwas lamers, complaining about admin mods :)

slider
12-14-2003, 09:58 PM
11- i am also a server owner and i am good admin.... this mod is very helpful to fight against persons who come only to waste the gameplay...... i had also bad admins, or good one who have come bad, and i take them out....

it is the jobs of server owners to take care about that....

now if you don't like one of the admin cdms ,simply disallow it

but for that you will have to read the readme
but i am sure you didn't do it, and you permit yourselefs to critiize without havingtry or read carfully the readme

slider
12-14-2003, 10:16 PM
the problem always come from the bad behaviour of admins and not from the mod.....


admins can abuse with the same way with less admin cmds like onimod admun or ja reloaded.....

and even without admin mod, admin can abause a lot.....

if you want a demonstartion give on ly the rcon of a server, and i show u how i can waste the gameplay of your server with only the rcon....

the problem come form the bad behaviour....

the admins cmds of my mods ares very usefull for good admins

Master William
12-14-2003, 10:24 PM
Nice.

_PerfectAgent_
12-14-2003, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by slider
1 - my mod is not on ly a admin mod
2- it contain very cool features as duel full force, flip ckick, emots
Xmod can do flip kick too.
3- the admin cmds permiits to fight against lamers
:disaproveIf you really want to "fight" against those people:
:deathii: Warn them about their "offence."
:deathii: Kick them from the server if they continue.
:deathii: Ban them from the server if they come back and continue their "offence."

This was never a "problem" in any other game (except for JK2 1.04).

4- if admins abuse, go to play elsewhere
To probably run into another server with the same problem.

5- if u don't like my work, don't install it and leave this thread
Just because we don't install it doesn't mean other servers won't.

6- with ja realoded, there si all cmd needed to abuse like in my mod
:confused: If you're referring to the fact that you can "amlame" everyone at the same time, there is no need to!

7 ; the cmds allowed for admins is totally configurable so that if you want , you can suprress all cmds execpt for example the kick
But rarely will any servers do that.

8 don't change the name of my topics

you are abusing of your admin right
:confused:

9 - if admins are good, there is never problems

server owner like you must the choose the good one
it is your job

if you do not do that, there will be abuse with my mod or others like ja relaoded
But just because a few select good people to be admin doesn't mean all do.

10- alwas lamers, complaining about admin mods :)
There is no need for all of those silly commands if you can kick/ban someone.

11- i am also a server owner and i am good admin.... this od is very helpful to fight against perso who come only to waste the gameplay...... i had also bad admins, or good one who ha come bad, and i take them out....

it is the jobs of server owner to take care about that....
But that doesn't mean that every server owner will do that.

now if you don't like one of the admin cdms ,simply disallow it
But most servers leave all that junk on, just because we don't like it doesn't mean the server owner cares.

but for that you will ahve to read the readme
but i am sure you didn't do it, and you permit yourselefs to critiize without ahvinf try or read carfully the readme
Not everyone owns servers (I don't own one) and that means anyone who skips from server to server can't do a thing about that.

the problem always come from the bad behaviour of admins and not from the mod.....
The admin mod is only a way to amplify the effects of their behavior.

admins can abuse with the same way with less admin cmds like onimod admun or ja reloaded.....
Omnimod still has that stuff. (Correct me if I'm wrong) Jedi Academy Reloaded has no useless commands such as slay.

and even without admin mod, admin can abause a lot.....
They could, but they abuse for fun, seeing a greenish laser come from the sky is not fun for them.

if you want a demonstartion give on ly the rcon of a server, and i show u how i can waste the gameplay of your server with only the rcon....
But it's more fun for those abusive admins to slap someone off a cliff, or take someone's weapons away and tell everyone to kill that person or they will get slapped or bunnied.

the problem come form the bad behaviour....
In combination with the abusive commands.

the admins cmds of my mods ares very usefull for good admins
Not the bunny, slay, slap and such.

slider
12-14-2003, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
The admins of LucasFiles, jk3files, pcgamemods, and all the other file hosting sites should agree to not distribute admin mods with abuse-prone commands

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana

Like Pearl Harbor or Sept. 11, the admin mod makers caught the Jedi Outcast community asleep and unprepared for the attack. Let's pray we learned something and history won't repeat itself. [/B]

it is not a dictatorship, modders must keep the opportunity to put the file they want.......

if you don't like this mod n don't dl it

it is not by qoting famous sentences that you give more credibility to yout speech........

slider
12-14-2003, 10:30 PM
_PerfectAgent_ , you said that all server may not be with good admins....

it is ttrue, so i think your are enought clever to find yourself the solution ==> "go on the good servers"

_PerfectAgent_
12-14-2003, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by slider
it is not a dictatorship, modders must keep the opportunity to put the file they want.......
Why not make real mods? There's already enough abusive junk.

if you don't like this mod n don't dl it
Just because we don't install it doesn't mean other servers will.

it is not by qoting famous sentences that you give more credibility to yout speech........
But those quotes speak the truth.

_PerfectAgent_ , you said that all server may not be with good admins....
Most servers.

it is ttrue, so i think your are enought clever to find yourself the solution ==> "go on the good servers"
If I want to play sabers only, that's basically impossible. But I got a better solution: remove the abusive commands.

slider
12-14-2003, 10:37 PM
"go on the good sservers" is not a qotation of a famous person like George Santayana but ME
:)

slider
12-14-2003, 10:38 PM
and it is also the thruth

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-14-2003, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by slider
"go on the good sservers" is not a qotation of a famous person like George Santayana but ME
:)

Don't you see: creating admin mods with abuse-prone commands reduces the number of "good" servers that people can take refuge in. Sadly, in the real world, not your fantasy world where server operators pick only "good" admins that don't abuse players and there are an infinite number of "good" servers to go to if you encounter a "bad" server (a majority of those running mods like yours, I've seen them), there are many many "bad" admins and "bad" servers running mods like yours. Do you expect people to keep getting abused on one server after another until they find a "good" one? They won't, they'll just play something else, just as you said you are going to do in another post somewhere. You are going to dump this pile of **** in our community, then go off and play FF XI I think it was, while we deal with cleaning up the mess you helped create. Thanks a lot for nothing!

BTW, there is a parallel debate taking place in the comments section for this mod at http://www.pcgamemods.com/3418/
Love it or hate it, express you opinions there too! I did!

FK | unnamed
12-14-2003, 10:59 PM
12- laming = playing the game, let's try letting people do it this time around.

TK-8252
12-14-2003, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
And if somebody "lames" you, who cares? They got what.. 1 point over you? You can easily get them back, unless you persist in standing around with your saber off chatting (and if you're going to do that, why do you care if you lose score-wise)? If a server has rules to protect those who want to chat or wander around or do whatever then they are expecting not to be attacked. If the server has these rules then all people are expected to follow them. The server host is paying for their server, so they should get to run it as they want. If you are in one part of the map with a group of people or simply running to the area of the map where there is a large FFA going on you want to be able to do that without being interfered with. If you are not ready (or not going to) fight, then you don't have to. These rules protect people so they can play at their own pace. It really, IMO, has nothing to do with Star Wars, RPs, Jedi, Honor, etc. Simply involves following two or three simple rules.

Originally posted by Kurgan
THESE folks are lagging the game and wasting everyone's time. But what about when no one is fighting? Lag isn't quite a problem then.

Originally posted by Kurgan
Why? They are using up bandwidth just chatting (something they could easily do in spectator mode or elsewhere... they should go chat up their friends on IRC instead or exchange emails and go there to talk about whatever). Also they're using up a client slot that somebody who wants to actually play might want to have but can't. Chatting in a 3D Star Wars land is more interesting than a square box on your internet browser. And you can't do much RPing, private chatting, dueling, or FFAing in spectator mode...

Originally posted by Kurgan
Think of it this way, if a server is "full" with 8 people but only 2 of them are actually playing and the rest are just standing around chatting, isn't that a waste and unfair to the people who want to play trying to connect? If everyone is just standing around chatting, etc. then those people who are trying to connect are picking the wrong server to try to connect to. So it's better that they be kept out! One less person to spam rule binds to!

shukrallah
12-15-2003, 12:41 AM
But what about when no one is fighting? Lag isn't quite a problem then.

Yeah it is, they are still using up bandwidth... just being on a server causes lag... everytime a player joins the server slows down, and your ping goes up (maybe not a lot) but still.



hmmm.... ive got a mod idea... if someone cares to do it. If not, then perhaps ill do it myself. Allow people to fight (whatever, etc...) but not allow any points unless there fighting in a duel. Sound good?

Theres no way any group (Normal FFAers, Honor Jedi, RPGers... etc..) will just "give up" there way of playing. Its obvious the admin mods are the only way to preserve the RPG/Honor "style" so.. why not try and come to a solution that will be advantageous to both sides? Thats why I suggested what i said above. Chances are, what i suggested wont solve the problem... the honor jedi will not be happy because they are "dead" (even though they respawn) the normal players wont be happy because when they kill someone the kill isnt counted. :( There must be a way to please both.

You cant stop people from making these mods either. Why not beat them? You can make a mod that attracts players from both styles of play, that will make the admin mods obselete. Well.. thinking about it more, why would a trigger happy admin want to give up the ability to empower him self and slap people around all day.

TK-8252
12-15-2003, 01:27 AM
Lukeskywalker1, you just don't understand. People don't complain about laming because someone is scoring points off of you. People complain about laming because you are attacked when you are not fighting. Which means, chatting or saber off.

Making people invinsible when they are saber off or chatting would solve the laming issue, BUT WOULD CREATE EVEN WORSE PROBLEMS! Since it'd be easy to simply attack someone and then immediatly turn the saber off, which would be annoying and frustrating for those who want to have a real fight.

FK | unnamed
12-15-2003, 01:42 AM
Even if you get "lamed" you can still press the talk key and type out what you were going to say right?


And if you are "standing around watching duels" can't you do the same from spec mode?


I swear to god I think you brats just HAVE to have some thing to piss and moan and whine about every living moment of your lives or else you won't able to function.

“OMG I must control these lamers, they attacked me in a video game when my saber was down!!!!!!!! We must have order!!!!!!!!”


Will you people just shut the hell up with this garbage, you sound like a pack of whiny kids playing “hall monitor” crying “TEACHER HE’S RUNNING IN THE HALLLS!!!!!!!!!!!!”

Please for the love of god; chill with this cry baby crap and just let it die once and for all so the rest of us can play this game we bought and not have to listen to your whiny brat bull****.

TK-8252
12-15-2003, 02:00 AM
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
Even if you get "lamed" you can still press the talk key and type out what you were going to say right? Not if you're private chatting...

Originally posted by FK | unnamed
And if you are "standing around watching duels" can't you do the same from spec mode? I never "watch duels".

Originally posted by FK | unnamed
I swear to god I think you brats just HAVE to have some thing to piss and moan and whine about every living moment of your lives or else you won't able to function. People only piss and moan and whine when provoked.

Originally posted by FK | unnamed
Will you people just shut the hell up with this garbage, you sound like a pack of buck toothed jackass kids playing “hall monitor” crying “TEACHER HE’S RUNNING IN THE HALLLS!!!!!!!!!!!!” People wouldn't be playing "hall monitor" if people could just follow their rules in the first place.

Originally posted by FK | unnamed
play this game we bought Well here's the thing: Joining a multiplayer server is a priviledge, not a right. Server hosts create a server so they can play THEIR way, not YOUR way.

FK | unnamed
12-15-2003, 03:25 AM
Take a look at my sig.

See those three dedicated servers?

Myself and two members of our clan pay for those out of pocket, and have done so through various games for many years, so you can spare me the lecture about running servers.

How much money a month do you spend on hosting for game servers?
How much money have you ever spent on it?

I'm willing to bet 0 is the answer.


My point?


Don't lecture people about running servers until you actually have a serious investment in one.

That right there ^ is one of the main reason why these admin mods are so harmful.

They basically give control of a server (through the sub admin functions) to people who:

1- Are too stupid to understand basic rcon commands.

2- Have no serious investment in the server so they do whatever they wish to it and care nothing of the damage they cause.

Through all the various games I play, ranging from Wolfenstein to Jedi to Quake 3, I find that almost overwhelmingly 100% of the time, the admins who power trip and play "little Hitler" are not the people who fork over cash every month for a server.

It's almost always some 12 year old kid who has self esteem issues and wants to play God in a virtual world.

Now add in stupid ego stroking crap like “sleep punishment” and you can see how this just turns into one big pile of manure real fast when you have some whiny brat at the wheel.


*note

I'm not talking about you TK if you are getting that impression, just ranting on these people in general.

slider
12-15-2003, 04:10 AM
ja reloaded that u prone has a lot of abusive tools as my mod

and my mod is not an admin mod it contains a lots of cool stuff read the readme carfyfully

the admin mod is here only to keep a good gameplay face to lamers kids....

but it is for reponsible admin and not imature admin....

it is to the responsability of server owners to not put imature admin.....
if a server is abusing with those admin functions go to play eslewhere
and if a server without admin mod is full of kids imature lamers, go also to play else where

ja realoded mod is plenty of "abusive cmds" if you want a desmonstartion, give the server you want and i show u

but ils is too easay......
bive only a server without admin mod , and i show u only with rcon cmd how i can abuse....

the tools are not bad but it is their use that are bad
if i supresse all cmds and rcon, the minority of imaturel lamers wil not be able to abuse but the majority of normal admins will not fight against lamers......

the knife is a useful toll but we can kill with a knife...
if i supresse the knife, the minority of spychopat will not be abale to kill, but a majority of people will not be abale to eat
if i supresse rcon, the imature admin wil not be able to abuse, but the majority opf good admin will not be able to administrate corectly their servers....


A lot of people love my mod, soe other don't....
if you don't love,without even having try it, go to dl another mod like the one u prone (ja reloaded) but you will ssee that there is the same problem if the server owner chosse imature admin....

slider
12-15-2003, 04:14 AM
ja reloaded that u prone has a lot of abusive tools as my mod

and my mod is not an admin mod it contains a lots of cool stuff read the readme carfyfully

the admin mod is here only to keep a good gameplay face to lamers kids....

but it is for reponsible admin and not imature admin....

it is to the responsability of server owners to not put imature admin.....
if a server is abusing with those admin functions go to play eslewhere
and if a server without admin mod is full of kids imature lamers, go also to play else where

ja realoded mod is plenty of "abusive cmds" if you want a desmonstartion, give the server you want and i show u

but ils is too easay......
bive only a server without admin mod , and i show u only with rcon cmd how i can abuse....

the tools are not bad but it is their use that are bad
if i supresse all cmds and rcon, the minority of imaturel lamers wil not be able to abuse but the majority of normal admins will not fight against lamers......

the knife is a useful toll but we can kill with a knife...
if i supresse the knife, the minority of spychopat will not be abale to kill, but a majority of people will not be abale to eat
if i supresse rcon, the imature admin wil not be able to abuse, but the majority opf good admin will not be able to administrate corectly their servers....


A lot of people love my mod, soe other don't....
if you don't love,without even having try it, go to dl another mod like the one u prone (ja reloaded) but you will ssee that there is the same problem if the server owner chosse imature admin....

slider
12-15-2003, 04:18 AM
go here

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=119796

it is the real dicussion

SpaceButler13
12-15-2003, 04:37 AM
Why not take the admin mods to the next level? Anyone ever see the SomethingAwful video "Derek Smart's Desktop Commander"? I envision a bold new future in which Jedi Academy not only gives chatting 7 year olds the protection they need from lamers, but automatically closes the game and opens mirc. One day, friends, one day..........

FK | unnamed
12-15-2003, 06:02 AM
Originally posted by SpaceButler13
I envision a bold new future in which Jedi Academy not only gives chatting 7 year olds the protection they need from lamers, but automatically closes the game and opens mirc. One day, friends, one day..........

Kurgan
12-15-2003, 06:18 AM
slider, you know who the REAL LAMERS are?

They're NOT the people who play the game, using the weapons and force powers to get kills. Rather they are the people who whine endlessly when they get chat killed or die with their saber down, or who try to vote kick people, call them names and Admins who use commands like "slap" and "slay" on helpless people in their games.

Those are the "lamers" that ruin the game, not people who try to get points by fighting. They are just playing the game as it was designed to be played. The real "lamers" are the ones trying to slap people around or vote kick those they don't like while they whine.

Okay, now on to the items you mentioned....

JA Reloaded removed commands like slap, punish, slay, bunny, etc.


It still has sleep, but hey, it's got a lot less than your mod slider.


Nobody is saying you cant' release mods. What we're saying (as server admins and gamers who care about the community) is that some of the features of your mod CAUSE MORE HARM THAN GOOD.

Thus you have a responsibility to take stock of the situation, remove them and then the level of abuse will go down.

Everybody wins!


You say Rcon is abusive... well, the developers of the game put that in (the developers of Quake3). If that is already abusive, why do you ADD TO IT by putting in more abusive options?

That just makes it worse instead of better. That's what we're trying to tell you.

Keep working on your mod and improving it if you want to. But one thing that would really improve it is to remove the following commands if you have the equivalent:

slap
slay
bunny
sleep
teleport
punish
empower/terminator (or similar)
freeze/protect
mute


and while you're at it:
emotes that make you partially invulnerable

ChosenOne the JA Reloaded author insisted that "Sleep" was absolutely necessary. So he kept it. It can still be abused, but not as bad as the others. As a result his mod improved drastically and his reputation in the community also improved.

Perhaps he felt guilty about all the damage his Jedi Academy mod caused in JK2?

Anyway, please think about it. If you remove all the laming commands, don't worry, there will be people out there that can still abuse the ones in OmNi Mod and revolutions.

Hopefully though those authors will also realize the error of their ways and make their mods fun and useful instead of abusive.


PS: One thing I can't get over is how many people are spouting the silly argument that somehow kicking and banning are "admin abuse" and that it's better to mute/sleep/slap and slay people instead.

If people are going to treat me that rudely on their server, I'd rather be kickbanned and never have to suffer through their bullying again. Sheesh. ; p


NEWSFLASH TO THESE FOLKS: Raven & Id Software gave us Kick & Ban. That's all we need!

They didn't give us amslap or amslay or amempower or any of that other crap. You know why? Because it promotes bullying and abuse and it's silly. It's like cheating. And notice how the emotes that Raven gave us leave you vulnerable. Whoever had the bright idea that emotes should make you invincible should be Force Gripped off a cliff whilst being shot by multiple Concussion Rifles!


You really will be surprised by Xmod2 I think. It has "anti laming" features that are much better than the tired, worn out, ineffective and abuse prone amlame commands.

And why do you say that only "lamers" are against admin mods?

Amidala and I are both server admins who care about real gameplay!

And Amidala, I agree completely.


On the subject of IP bans:

slider, you realize you can ban a person's entire IP range right? They'd have to be logging into multiple proxies or switch ISP's to get through that. The vast majority of so-called "lamers" don't even know how to do that.

And you can just keep banning IP ranges until he gives up. It works!

And slider, you claim JA+ is NOT an Admin Mod? What a joke!

By that logic, Xmod2 and JA Reloaded aren't admin mods either, just because they have a few bonus features in addition to the usual admin stuff.

FK | unnamed
12-15-2003, 06:36 AM
rcon, as in true rcon can be abused but it is rare.

Why?

Most people are too stupid/lazy to figure out how to use it.


9/10 server admins in JKA don't even know how to ban players in the base engine.

slider
12-15-2003, 06:39 AM
it is Your pont of view

but a lot of people told me to add those admins functions....

and mainly other stuffs

when i read your speeach, it seems that you never read the readme carfully.......

i made the kinght password totally configrable in order to be able to define the allowed admin cmds....

i made that so that server owners give if they are afraid of immature admin, only the knight pass with few cmds like for exemple only sleep.....

now if a server owner is very good and choose very well its admins, he will give more right to only people who are matures....




Now here is what i say to all servers owners :
read this:

IMPORTANT FOR SEVER OWNER : in order to prenvent bad imature admins to waste the gameplay you must choose the future with a lot of care........

if you don't know the maturity of an admin, give only the Knight password and define the knight allowed cmds only with cmds that will not give him the ooportunity to cheat or to lame....

it is to your responsability to do that


my mod is very usefull to fight with efficiency against imatures lamers......

but server owners MUST GIVE THOSE RIGHT ONLY TO GOOD AND MATURE PERSONS...

accordinf to me to fight against lamer you can do this :
*** kick / ban is not good because most IP are dynamics, and iamtures will always come back
*** when a player begin to waste the gameplay of other with lame, don't USE IMEDIATELY the admin cmd *** begin with speaking to him to make him unstand to stop
** if he continue, by laming or saing bad words, simply punish him a few minutes and push him at the top of the map
*** then ignore him ==> it is the best punishment
** then normally after thos minutes unpunish him and speak with him in order to show him that you only want that everybody can play in a good gameplay



it is what i says to everybody that own a server......

And i meet no probleme of admin abuse on all the server that apply this policy....

i don't where you play, but me on the servers where i play there is no abuse......

what i just said is very general mau be applied on every server whatever the installed mod....because all mods contains admin mod.....

it is a need

i wouldn't include it if nobody told me to do it


know my mod can't satisfy evrybody....

but i am enough open minded to understant your problem

i just want to satisfy everybody.....

So perhaps i will decide to make later a version admin light for all the people who think like you....

it will be the same as the other but will very few admin cmd (only the needed).....
so you and the other who think like you, will choose only the servers who as this version.....

thos who don't think like you will be able to choose to play on the other full admin cmd version...

Kurgan
12-15-2003, 06:41 AM
Unnamed, you're right, sadly, tons of people don't understand the following:

\rconpassword WHATEVERMYPASSWORDIS
\rcon status
\rcon addip xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
\rcon clientkick #

Instead they need their baby "banning guns" and other crud, and it's rather pathetic. Oh well...

Thanks to admin mods like this any 12 year old can torment human players in his play pen server instead of the small animals he might otherwise be torturing (small blessings?). ; p

And was pointed out in the comments section of PCgamemods by Amidala (numerous times, bless her) is that the vast majority of people here would much rather be kickbanned than beat up on with amlame commands.

Face it, slider even admitted in the thread, the point of amlameing is this:

He's saying there's NO WAY to ban somebody, they will just come back forever and "waste the gameplay."

So what you have to do is GET REVENGE ON THEM by slapping and sleeping and slaying them with your empowered character until they get so upset they leave.


The trouble is, all these commands don't care if you're using them on "lamers" or just on anybody you don't like or want to make angry. The admin mod also doesn't care if you're a "Good admin" or a "Bad Admin."

Then he posts how it's the admin's responsibility not to make use of the features he hands them and washes his hands of the affair and walks away. *Sigh*


Sorry for all the anger, but it really has gotten to the point where I'm just sick and tired of all the excuses for giving the tools of abuse and handing them out to thousands of players then saying "well it's not my problem." IT IS! Take some responsibility!

Kurgan
12-15-2003, 06:46 AM
If a person is in the game, they are "lagging it" because data has to be fend to everyone else about their position, actions, chat text they are sending, etc.

Try it some time, start up a game and have everybody just stand around with their sabers off chatting. Do they all have 0 ping? No?

Gee... imagine that. ; )

And the fact is the game still has to render all those models, so if they are spectator mode it uses less system resources than if they are all just standing around talking.

Whether the rules are there or not, the fact is, using the game as a chat room is a MISuse (some would say abuse) of the game, and of the server.

If the server admin wants to throw money away on a chatroom (a real chatroom would use less bandwidth and be less costly) that's his right, but I'm just saying. A lot of people try to turn every pub they find into the same honor/RPG/chatroom and that is just plain rude.

Even if they stand there and do nothing, they are taking up space, and they're taking up a slot that somebody who actually wants to play might want.

It's like going to the supermarket and throwing a bunch of your garbage on a parking space so nobody can park there.

Or parking in the handicapped space when you're not handicapped. ; )

You may think it's funny, but it's wasting a resource that somebody else has a right to more than you.

It's called common courtesy.


And as far Role Playing, you should know that the majority of Role Players don't even use graphics!

Did you know that thousands of people still play MUDs (Multi User Dungeons) that have been around for decades?

It's completely text based role playing with AI and humans, online and most of it is free!

Then there's the classic pencil & paper rpg's. You don't even have game pieces (at most just a crude board to keep track of positions, if that), and yet somehow people have tons of fun and develop complex characters in their world, interact with other humans, have battles, have fun (gasp!) etc.

It's this spoiled generation that thinks that to have an RPG you have to be playing a graphical video game.

Pencil & Paper RPG's are limited only by your imagination. In JA, no matter what you do, you're always going to end up looking like Kyle/Luke/whomever meditating & bowing in a Deathmatch level while chat bubbles appear over his head.

And LARPing (Live Action Role Playing) is just one type of role playing anyway, in a sea of games.


slider, you're right, since we're basically having the same debate in both threads, I should probably just merge them.---->

slider
12-15-2003, 09:18 AM
i had a server during 1 year for JK2 and i applyied the policy i just said


and there never was admin abuse......


now i know that on other server, there was only lamers that had afford a server......

BUT THEY ARE LAMER

and so beeing admins with theirs servers, it was unplayable....

==> so the solution is very simple*==> i never return on thos servers

and later, 2 , or 3 months later, nobody was coming to play on this servers

and the servers died....

when lamer become admin, it never last a long time.....


i know very few servers like that because they die quicqly....

But i understand very well your point of wiew and so in order to statisfy everybody, i will made later 2 version :

- one full cmds
- and another with very few...

the people who think like u will be able to go only the server that runs the light admin cmd version.....

now for all the good server owners if you apply mu policy with the full admin mcd version, you will not habe abuse admins....

Side
12-15-2003, 10:52 AM
and i thought iron didnt know how to type
anyway...

i wanted to share my opinion about this but i forgot....

something like...

Honorz server already took over competitive(w/e) gameplay,it already or close to die just like 1.4

il just play on xmod server even if there so few of them

And slider,no matter what you say,people will abuse them for the simple fact that their addicted to the ''honorz system''
wich is ''dont attack people with saber down''

god 1.2,1.3 was such a blast it a shame it went down to this

Alegis
12-15-2003, 11:00 AM
You guys could quarrel for hours, it won't make a difference in the opinion of both sides
situation scetch: :fire3: :fire2:
The deal is this Slider, the people here on this forum/thread don't want it and are against it, they are pure ffa arena fighters. Your mod is for servers with honor and chatting+fighting (ideal for most see-el-ay-n-s ), suggest your mod to those people, you can't change the mind of the pure fighting ppl over here

Side
12-15-2003, 11:03 AM
that kinda what i said =P

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-15-2003, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by slider
i had a server during 1 year for JK2 and i applyied the policy i just said

and there never was admin abuse......

now i know that on other server, there was only lamers that had afford a server......

BUT THEY ARE LAMER

and so beeing admins with theirs servers, it was unplayable....

==> so the solution is very simple*==> i never return on thos servers

and later, 2 , or 3 months later, nobody was coming to play on this servers

and the servers died....

when lamer become admin, it never last a long time.....

i know very few servers like that because they die quicqly....

Hmmm, so servers full of "lamers" and run by a "lamer" are unpopular and "die quickly", so you say. Now, I'm not doing this to brag, just to provide evidence that you are incorrect
http://server4.uploadit.org/files2/151203-Copy of ChopShopIsTop50.jpg
My server was started nine months ago and still fills up (>20 players too) everyday. For the last 4 months or so, it is the #1 busiest JK2 server in the world several times a day, every day. And guess what, it's run by a "lamer" and is full of "lamers" (I have an all kills are legal, don't whine when you die policy). "Lamers" as you call them are not scum or criminals, they are just fellow human beings, kids mostly, who just want to play the game they bought the way it was designed and meant to be played, free of silly, made-up, unofficial "honor codes" and "rules" about the "right way" and "right time" to "kill" another player. Thanks to admin mods with abuse-prone commands like yours, there are damn few places they can do that without being slapped, punished, slayed, etc., so they flock to my servers (yes, it is running Jedi Academy Mod 1.4, but I disabled all those abuse-prone commands. They are humiliating and unnecesssary).Originally posted by slider
But i understand very well your point of wiew and so in order to statisfy everybody, i will made later 2 version :

- one full cmds
- and another with very few...

the people who think like u will be able to go only the server that runs the light admin cmd version.....

now for all the good server owners if you apply mu policy with the full admin mcd version, you will not habe abuse admins.... Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! Now we're getting somewhere!

slider
12-15-2003, 11:13 AM
i totally agree with you


but i am enough open minded to understand the point of wiew of non "honorz" players.....

a lot of people love demanded me to add all the admins functions because they are more in a "honorz" way of life.....


But it is easy for me to make later a version in parrallele with admin light cmd only for player who can't stand the word "admin"


i understand both point of view....

but all people that despite my work on this forum seems to not understand that there is not only their point of view ......

this forum and the admins of this forum are not enough open minded and can't stand the opinion that differs from theirs

Side
12-15-2003, 11:14 AM
Amidala Your server rocks,and funny somehow,i met a few Honorz follower there gettin raped by sum descent gunner =P just funny that all

Sarah J
12-15-2003, 11:17 AM
I think i will stick with basejka servers for now :amidala:

Side
12-15-2003, 11:23 AM
Doing a mod is enuff hard as it is,

Slider,we respect ur opinion,but we dont agree it

dont take it badly,You should try a few server with admin mod,and try to play,at the instant your going to chip off 1 shield of an admin or someone with saber down ur gonna get slapped/freeze and anything your putting in ur mod

and that stupid saber down rule is on 80% of server ,10% server are filled with bot(go figure) and the rest are those server like CHOP CHOP,=x= server,ms3 server,etc...etc

were just shooting suggestion,but you should take those suggestion seriously

slider
12-15-2003, 11:32 AM
you can also disable all admin cmds with my mods :)


and if your server is withour rules =+> so it becomes also THE RULES...

the rules is no rules and everybody coming in your server know it

so there is not pb i understand that u disallow all admin cmds in order to prevent kids using them because there is no rule and so no good admin behaviour imposed to all admins....

RenegadeOfPhunk
12-15-2003, 11:35 AM
...here's my suggestion to potentially solve this situation.
Facing the fact that these mods will not go away, how about we agree on something which is a bit more of a compromise...

If your mod has the kind of commands which have been described in this thread as potentially abusive, could you please NOT make your mod server-side only!
Make at least a small change client-side. Anything. Just do something so that a client-side download is required. The cgame.dll isn't big - less than a MB. It won't take any time at all to download.


While I am personally against 'abusive-prone' admin mods like the one mentioned in this thread, I also think that there are a significant part of the community who do want this kind of mod, and will keep asking someone to make them until they get what they want.

...of course what they don't realise or don't accept is that this kind of mod will not just do what they want, but will also negatively impact on other's enjoyment of the game.

So, I don't think your going to convince some mod authors to take the abusive commands out. For every person complaining about them, there will be another person crying out for them.

...at least forcing a client-side download will - imo - create a proper, solid BORDER between 'out-of-the-box' gameplay, and 'honour' gameplay. I think both groups have the right to exist (I'm a proper FFA'er, but I think if you honour guys want all the rules crap - go right ahead.)

...it's when these two groups clash that problems are caused. If a client-side download was required, these two groups could not clash easiely...

...that's my 2 cents anyway. Unfortunately, abusive admin commands are 'compatively' easy to code in - so your gonna find someody who's gonna end up doing it... *sigh*

slider
12-15-2003, 12:18 PM
my solution is to provide a rcon system to disallow the admin cmd u want....

so that each server owner can do what he wants :

and this possibility to disallow each cmds is already coded

Side
12-15-2003, 01:22 PM
well too late , admin abuse started again

http://div3rseteam.fragism.com/shot0000.jpg

http://div3rseteam.fragism.com/shot0001.jpg


i was there having some kick fight with...newbie player and they didnt mind about me killing evry1,hell i even started to teach them how to kick and few trick,and right after,the admin get in,use empower + protection bubble and start kicking(double tap jump) evry1 with terminator ****,

sorry people it already started =/

Sarah J
12-15-2003, 01:24 PM
slider ,the temptation would be just too much for young minds... i doubt people who are irresponsible enough to run JA+ certianly wouldnt disable the abusive-unneed commands

Side
12-15-2003, 01:26 PM
godamit fragism...........gimme a sec il convert them....

there chek the screenshot now,sorry if it dam ugly,im running the game with the lowest setting,cuz i lack of honorz -.////============) <lightsaber

Sarah J
12-15-2003, 01:26 PM
slider, the most abuse from your mod would be the protectant buble, can't you make it so as soon as an admin with protectant on attacks / kicks / uses force on another player, the buble will go? so atleast the victem can fight back

like in xmod1

Rumor
12-15-2003, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
Not if you're private chatting...


Wrong TK82347723497987347

You can private chat any person in the server from anywhere on the map.

Side
12-15-2003, 01:51 PM
i think that only work in xmod
(ie /rumor hi you stink today)

Admiral Chemix
12-15-2003, 02:00 PM
Honor seems to be less and less important with people these days. Sometimes people want to fight and chat and keep their points. By killing someone with chatbox up or saber down you are taking away their fun from the game to gain your own. You are being selfish and rude. Do these things mean anything to you. You are taking the fun out of the game someone spent their money to get. It's no fun to get killed again and again by people when you have no defense. People have a right to chat, to talk, and to explore the server, they need not always fight. You must take a look from the other perspective. The honor code was erected so that all could enjoy the game, without it chaos erupts and the game dies quickly. Somepeople wish to enjoy the game for more than a month. Not everybody has the money to go buy a new game every week. Not to mention the moral issue. You see it as merely a game. What are games for if not to have fun. You are taking away their fun for your own enjoyment. It's basicly like cheating. They have no defense so you slaughter them. There is no challenge. There is a community at stake here and you risk it all for a few seconds of enjoyment.

Ideas-

Toggleable anti lamer protection

30 seconds after chatbox is put up or saber is put down the player enters invincibility mode, as soon as his/her saber or chatbox is down the inviciblity mode is disabled and they are in danger of attack, the 30 second timer prevents those who would use this while in a duel to prevent dying.

New Force ranks, abilities and levels

Dark side:

Force Collect- takes 30 force points and allows players to gain other users' force skills

Dark Mind trick- allows the user to controle someone for a limited time

Fury- allows for the special fury kata attack

Light Side:

Force Repell- all push, grip attacks are repelled back at the player who used them

Jedi Lightning- similar to dark side lightning except must more point costly and higher damage

Regeneration- a very costly( in allocatable force points) force power that regenerates health, force, and armor

Force Levels:

4: 30-40 points
5: 50-80 points

Force ranks(Best name for this I could think of, it's the thing in the server set up menu that determines how many points players have to use):

Sith Lord- 500 points

Sith Aprentice- 350 points

Jedi Council Member- 100 points

Vader- 550 points

Emporer- 600 points

Yoda- 700 points


New/Old Gametypes:

Specialties (what the heck it worked on star trek)
Holocron (randomly spreads holocrons around a map that players can pick up and use as force powers, without any holocrons the player can only use force jump level 1)
Jedi Master (one player has all force powers level 3 while the rest can only use guns and melee)
Jedi VS Merc (guns only with flamethrowers and grapping hooks vs saber only with force)
Chaos (all players get maximum level force powers and are seperated into two teams, light and dark)


RGB Sabers


Selectable Saber glow/core size default- normal


Emotes:

Kiss
Slap
cry (no tears just the motions and the sound)
dodge
dance
break dance


I am a modder so if you want help I could try and assist

Side
12-15-2003, 02:05 PM
Il be honest,if a server rule says no chat kill....that just fine for me,it not a scrim or anything,but the saber down rule **** is pathetic,

it unplayable no one can enjoy a game where they cant play,cuz the guy get constanly slapped/freezed or any /amlames command that exist

i wouldnt mind if there was...10%(?) of server using that saber down rule but right now it like 99.9% of ffa server using that stupid rule,it doesnt make any sense at all

Toggleable anti lamer protection

30 seconds after chatbox is put up or saber is put down the player enters invincibility mode, as soon as his/her saber or chatbox is down the inviciblity mode is disabled and they are in danger of attack, the 30 second timer prevents those who would use this while in a duel to prevent dying.

People will abuse that ability way too much.

Admiral Chemix
12-15-2003, 02:21 PM
the saber down rule makes plenty of sense. You can't move and have the chatbox up. That and somepeople like to explore, read the part of my post about honor

To stop abuse there is a 30 second timer before it activates, it prevents laming

Side
12-15-2003, 02:29 PM
(this ie been used from tons of people,but i probly used that one before any1 =P)

I am a newbie,And i just bought JKA
I install it,Patch it,Setup my control and such

and ready to go,First try,KIKO FFA SERVER

Rule:No laming please

I get in the server,and start attacking people,....WTF IM STUCK UNDER A BRIDGE AND IM CONSTANLY LOOSING HEALTH
...hmm must be a glitch,there i go i kill 2 guys this time BOOM *you got kicked by console* wtf....

Ok il try another one, Pimp Evrything Clan FFA server

^repeat what happen on previous server,

I tried 10 server in total,and now i want my money back



This might sound stupid but it probly how it happen and why it dies,sorry but the saber down rule destroyed 2 great game.Why am i saying it death?
cuz i cant play FFA without gettin kicked,and im death tired of playing CTF in fact i might start playing Duel ..i was going for FFA but i cant

Admiral Chemix
12-15-2003, 02:33 PM
What is your deal with saber down. Can't u just not attack saber down players? Follow the rules. Make it so everyone can enjoy the experience

Side
12-15-2003, 02:37 PM
^^^^^^^^
îm a newbie,i have some gaming experience,so i assume laming mean ''no camping'' or such
i seriously didnt expect people meant by no laming=Saber down dont attack,and i tried over 10 FFA server,how can i even play that game beside SP,i wanna try MP

_PerfectAgent_
12-15-2003, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
Sometimes people want to fight and chat and keep their points. By killing someone with chatbox up or saber down you are taking away their fun from the game to gain your own. You are being selfish and rude. Do these things mean anything to you.
:confused: Points don't get subtracted for kills, only for suicide and killing your own teammates. Besides, if they have 50 health and 10 shields, then both people get the benefit! One gets back up to 100 health and 25 shields.

You are taking the fun out of the game someone spent their money to get. It's no fun to get killed again and again by people when you have no defense.
Then they should defend themselves! It's not hard.

People have a right to chat, to talk, and to explore the server, they need not always fight. You must take a look from the other perspective. The honor code was erected so that all could enjoy the game, without it chaos erupts and the game dies quickly.
So then Quake 3, Unreal, Battlefield 1942, Counter Strike and many other games would have died quickly if that was true, but I don't see that happening.

Somepeople wish to enjoy the game for more than a month. Not everybody has the money to go buy a new game every week.
I do. The game is deep and complex, including stealthy sabering: hide in a corner with saber off, no one sees you. Do a blue style uppercut when a victim nears.

Not to mention the moral issue. You see it as merely a game. What are games for if not to have fun.
Shooting people, hiding in a corner to ambush people, and slashing away indiscrimanately is fun.

You are taking away their fun for your own enjoyment. It's basicly like cheating. They have no defense so you slaughter them.
Cheating? They can press the attack button and defend themselves.

There is no challenge.
They can defend themselves and make it a challenge.

There is a community at stake here and you risk it all for a few seconds of enjoyment.
So hack away at your opponents!

Toggleable anti lamer protection

30 seconds after chatbox is put up or saber is put down the player enters invincibility mode, as soon as his/her saber or chatbox is down the inviciblity mode is disabled and they are in danger of attack, the 30 second timer prevents those who would use this while in a duel to prevent dying.
Can be abusable, especially by snipers.

Master William
12-15-2003, 03:01 PM
I feel a familiar smell... It's... a flamethrower :eek:

Rumor
12-15-2003, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by Side
i think that only work in xmod
(ie /rumor hi you stink today)

no that is a base q3 console feature.

/tell <client id or name> <message>

not really that hard.

Prime
12-15-2003, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
Honor seems to be less and less important with people these days. You mean to say that JO/JA has less honour rules than games in the past? Like Pac Man? Should I not eat the ghosts when I have a power pellet, since they are defenceless? In a racing game, should I not pass another player who has a flat tire? Why are these examples any less valid? Why should honour apply any less to them? What makes JO/JA so different that the goals of the game should not be adhered to?

Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
Sometimes people want to fight and chat and keep their points. By killing someone with chatbox up or saber down you are taking away their fun from the game to gain your own. You are being selfish and rude. Hello Kettle? This is Pot. Your black. Of course, those who sit on a public server and chat and demand not to be interfered with and kick/ban/amslap those who do are taking away the fun of players who want to actually play the game. Why are those players less important?

Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
You are taking the fun out of the game someone spent their money to get. Do "lamer" players spend any less money? No. Are "honour" players taking the fun out of the game for them? Yes. People are buying this game, reading the rules in the manual, and going online and getting verbally abused for playing the game. You are claiming that it is okay to do exactly the same thing to other players that you don't want done to you.

Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
It's no fun to get killed again and again by people when you have no defense. But they do have a defense. It is provided by the game. You (the general you) are refusing to use the defenses provided to everyone and then complaining that they have no defense. If you want some defense, press "1".

Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
People have a right to chat, to talk, and to explore the server, they need not always fight. And people have the right to go on a public server and play the game according to the rules specified by the gametype in the manual. People do not have to fight, but they should have to live with the consequences of that decision. What are you exploring on a server?

Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
You must take a look from the other perspective. You should do the same.

Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
The honor code was erected so that all could enjoy the game, without it chaos erupts and the game dies quickly. But don't you see that the honour code is making it so many cannot enjoy the game? It is making it so there is no game. The honour system encourages not playing the game at all. And chaos erupting, as in a Free For All, is exactly what will keep the game going, as it what the game is designed to provide.

Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
Some people wish to enjoy the game for more than a month. Not everybody has the money to go buy a new game every week. And non-honour players also want to enjoy the game for more than a month, and do not all have the money to buy a new game every week. But why did you buy the game if all you want to do is chat with your friends. Surely there are cheaper alternatives. What does JA provided that isn't available elsewhere? For non-honour players, it provides lightsaber and Star Wars combat.

Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
Not to mention the moral issue. You see it as merely a game. Because it is a game.

Video games are games. They are not real life. Many rules that apply in real life do not apply to video games. I do not apply my moral code to video games. If I did, I would have a hard time killing people since I tend not to do that in real life. I realize that if I kill someone in a game, the person controlling that character is still ok. I understand that if someone kills me, I am okay and I spawn back in right away, no harm no foul. No need to get upset. I realize that playing by the game's rules does not reflect my moral character. What does reflect my moral character is how I treat others that I play with. That is why I don't degrade into calling people racist and sexist names, or use derogatory words like "lamer" and "newb". That is much more of an indication of what kind of person I am than sticking a pretend lightsaber through a pretend character.

Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
What are games for if not to have fun. You are taking away their fun for your own enjoyment. As are you from theirs. It goes both ways.

Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
It's basicly like cheating. But doesn't cheating mean not playing by the rules? The rules in my manual say kill opposing players to get the most points. All things being equal, honour players are following the rules provided by the game less than others.

Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
They have no defense so you slaughter them. But they do have a defense, they just choose not to use it. Are you not complaining about being handicapped after choosing to be handicapped?

Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
There is a community at stake here and you risk it all for a few seconds of enjoyment.
There is a community at stake. It may help to look in the mirror, as the honour side's hands are just as bloody as anyone else's.

Admiral Chemix
12-15-2003, 03:16 PM
not everybody enjoys constant fighting, so your going to punish them for it? And you say they are anoying

Side
12-15-2003, 03:21 PM
Well,they can defend themselve,they can explore the map without any prob,it not like any newbie would hurt "'the honorable'' people to the point where they gonna quit the game look what im trying to say is why do you even care if someone killed you cheaply it a game afterall,dont suicide pal,you can kill the newbie pos back

And having a bunch of new people in JKA would be great,and could help a tons to bring more competitive clan =),we all started as a newbie,but if i woulda started in 1.4 i would play CS right now.

Prime
12-15-2003, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
not everybody enjoys constant fighting, so your going to punish them for it? And you say they are anoying But then why are they playing a game that is designed for constant fighting? If they don't want fighting, certainly there must be other games that aren't for constant fighting. Why not play those, since it seems JA is not intended for what you want anyway.

As for ignoring saber down people, if it was only a few people per server, I would. But joining servers where most or all have them down, that pretty much kills the game, doesn't it?

Admiral Chemix
12-15-2003, 03:28 PM
GO TO A DIFFERENT SERVER THEN INSTEAD OF RUINING THEIR FUN FOR YOUR OWN. Or better yet instead of anoying people, buy your own server, just for lamers

Side
12-15-2003, 03:34 PM
that where the freakin problem is godamit,90% OF THE FFA SERVER ARE RUNNING THAT RULE

and it not evry1 that got the money to run a server,of course people that are running one got the right what they want but,there is a consequence on how they run them,cmon you cant deny if people would play more it would bring WAY more people into this game,and it could be really a blast

cuz right now all the admin that run a server are screwing up newbie around to the poin that they quit the game,they are not annoying,their just giving a shot for the the first time on JKA

Sarah J
12-15-2003, 03:46 PM
come on people, whats wrong with getting killed saber down?.... you respawn after

FK | unnamed
12-15-2003, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
GO TO A DIFFERENT SERVER THEN INSTEAD OF RUINING THEIR FUN FOR YOUR OWN. Or better yet instead of anoying people, buy your own server, just for lamers

nah, I think I'll just keep going to these honor newbie servers and keep laming them.

:cool:

Lathain Valtiel
12-15-2003, 03:52 PM
As much as I don't like to say it, there is no honor in war.

slider
12-15-2003, 04:09 PM
woa !!!

Admiral Chemix,

i began to wonder if there were a normal person here who is enough open minded to understant both parties...... :)


well in order to resume the situation without insulting :

*** class 1 :some people like servers where the rules is no rules .
** class 2 : some like server where the rulees is not kill ground, no kill saber doown, no chat kill ....
*** class n : some people like server where the rules is RULEn


ok i each case when u come on a server respect its rules.....


****for the class1; the server admin can disllow all cmd admins
**** for the class 2 : the server admin must choose carefully its future admins and take a look on him
*** for the classN : well it depends on your RULESn :)


for the class 2, accoding to me, server owners mustn't give the council pass execpt to very steady people
I should onlu give the knight pass and define himselp admin cmds that take no risk of abuse and then give him later more rights when he knows him better............


but to conclude, THE MOST IMPORTANT IS TOLERANCE,

YOU MAY ACCEPT DEFFERENT POINT OF VIEW

We are all differents, and there are anough server to find the one which is adapated to its point of view

*************************************************
SPecialy for Admiral Chemix, your proposition is very cool....
but i diceded to wait a moment before adding new stuff...
i will concentrate on remove bugs, imporve existing features....

and then i have project to devlop a very nex gametype
but later.....
so i keep the contact with u

send me a previte message and i take u in my msn list

RenegadeOfPhunk
12-15-2003, 04:14 PM
my solution is to provide a rcon system to disallow the admin cmd u want....


That won't achieve much I'm afraid - assuming your aim is to keep the 'I-just-want-to-play-the-game-as-it-was-designed' crowd somewhat happy.
You might cut down on the 'bad' servers (from the non-honour point of view) a bit, but only slightly.

The 'proper' solution would be one of these two:

a. Don't include 'abuseable' admin commands in the first place.

b. Require a client-side download. Then you can add all the 'abuseable' admin commands you like ...and whichever ones the 'honour' players / clans like too. It just means the effects of these 'features' get cleanly and clearly restricted to those who actually want to play with harshly restricted honour rules...

I really don't see the major problem with the second option - apart from the honour crowd perhaps being too lazy to download a small file before they play...!
But just think of it - once you've download the file, the servers this allows you to play on will be 'lamer' free - garuanteed (because 'lamers' obviously will not have bothered to download the file to play on those servers).

So both sides win as far as I see.
THe honour guys get 'lamer-free' servers, with the admins rarely having to punish people at all - because the people who would cause trouble won't show up in the first place.

...newbs can't accidently stumble into an 'honour' server and get bashed around for following a code they have no idea about.

And seasoned non-honour players don't have to keep track of honour / non-honour servers. As long as they can join a server, they can be sure they aren't gonna have 'abusive' admin commands thrown at them.

...I really think this would be the ideal solution for all...


So slider -when you say this:


i began to wonder if there were a normal person here who is enough open minded to understant both parties......


THis is EXACTLY what I am trying to do. Requiring a client-side download would make DAMN SURE both honour and non-honour / newbs could play the game in peace without butting heads with each-other all the time...

If the intention of your mod is to stop so called 'laming', then I can't think of a more effective and efficient way to achieve that goal than to require a small client-side download to play on your servers...

Prime
12-15-2003, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
GO TO A DIFFERENT SERVER THEN INSTEAD OF RUINING THEIR FUN FOR YOUR OWN. Or better yet instead of anoying people, buy your own server, just for lamers Hey, I'd love to go to other servers that are for "lamers". Thus I tend to go to the Chop Shop a lot. I don't want to ruin fun for others. All I am saying is that honour players are also ruining fun for others. It has to work both ways...

Side
12-15-2003, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by slider
woa !!!

Admiral Chemix,

i began to wonder if there were a normal person here who is enough open minded to understant both parties...... :)


well in order to resume the situation without insulting :

*** class 1 :some people like servers where the rules is no rules .
** class 2 : some like server where the rulees is not kill ground, no kill saber doown, no chat kill ....
*** class n : some people like server where the rules is RULEn


ok i each case when u come on a server respect its rules.....


****for the class1; the server admin can disllow all cmd admins
**** for the class 2 : the server admin must choose carefully its future admins and take a look on him
*** for the classN : well it depends on your RULESn :)


for the class 2, accoding to me, server owners mustn't give the council pass execpt to very steady people
I should onlu give the knight pass and define himselp admin cmds that take no risk of abuse and then give him later more rights when he knows him better............


but to conclude, THE MOST IMPORTANT IS TOLERANCE,

YOU MAY ACCEPT DEFFERENT POINT OF VIEW

We are all differents, and there are anough server to find the one which is adapated to its point of view

*************************************************
SPecialy for Admiral Chemix, your proposition is very cool....
but i diceded to wait a moment before adding new stuff...
i will concentrate on remove bugs, imporve existing features....

and then i have project to devlop a very nex gametype
but later.....
so i keep the contact with u

send me a previte message and i take u in my msn list


[Edit: Please don't resort to flames to express your opinion, thank you. ]

Edit:no wait il keep posting,im the most bored man ever created

Prime
12-15-2003, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by RenegadeOfPhunk
...newbs can't accidently stumble into an 'honour' server and get bashed around for following a code they have no idea about. I would say that that is where most of the problems are as both kinds of players encounter each other more than they'd like. And that's when problems arise. I don't go around looking to bother honour players, but at the same time I don't like having to connect to 10 servers before I find one that has what I want. If I knew where to go right away I would be happy.

Side
12-15-2003, 04:34 PM
That my whole point,
how can a newbie enjoy the game if he got absolutly no idea what a good server,hes gonna try ...let say 5 server and might fall on one where evry1 is playing and having fun,but he got lucky to find such a server,if i would tried 5-10 server i would try another game right away

RenegadeOfPhunk
12-15-2003, 04:41 PM
Slider,

You have an opportunity here to work with and benefit the WHOLE community...
...rather than FOR half of it, and AGAINST the other.

Make your mod require a client-side download

Sure, you may have a few people moan at you.
But once they've spent the 5 mins it takes to download the client-side file, they won't moan anymore. And you will have made a mod which - in the long run - will benefit a hell of a lot of players WITHOUT getting a whole bunch of others pissed off.

...I hope you see the light on this one dude... ;)

Admiral Chemix
12-15-2003, 04:44 PM
Side what the heck is your prob man? I post suggestions and you call me a total complete retard again and again? u havin a realy bad day or somethin?

Side
12-15-2003, 04:47 PM
How am i insulting you....the only person i insulted so far was Slider,sorry if you felt like you were....im a canadian dude =P

FK | unnamed
12-15-2003, 04:53 PM
side the one man french army.



:p

how about this?

put an icon in the in-game browser for honor servers, kind of like the way you have icons for saber only and such.


It can be a bright pink icon with a rainbow in the background and in the middle it can have two "life partners" holding hands with chat bubbles over their heads.

Prime
12-15-2003, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
put an icon in the in-game browser for honor servers, kind of like the way you have icons for saber only and such. Hell, I'll take anything at this point. Just let me know that this is the kind of server it is. Right now I have to go a server, kill someone, get verbally abused for playing the game, get kicked, and repeat 5 times before I find somewhere to play. God knows the majority of honour servers don't say so in the start up message.

If I know where to go right off the bat I'll go there.

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-15-2003, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
People have a right to chat, to talk, and to explore the server, they need not always fight.
If you want to chat, use programs that are designed for that (Like ICQ or mirc or AIM or MSN Messenger to name a few). If you want to chat in the middle of a bunch of people trying to play the game the way it was designed to be played, stay out of the way and don't whine when you get "killed". Big deal, just keep chatting while "dead" or respawn with 125 health and 25 shields. I've done it a thousand times. What's the big deal? If you are wasting time chatting, you clearly don't care about getting the highest score, so who cares if your character is "killed"? Does it wound your pride or hurt you physically somehow? Geez, it's a game, it's not really you in there, in case you didn't notice.

If you want to "explore", you don't need to go to a server to do that, you can do that at home. Just use "Play Solo Game", don't add any bots, and wander around all you want with no fear of being "lamed". Don't take up valuable server space and bandwidth "exploring" and "wandering around doing nothing" as TK puts it. Duh!

Originally posted by slider
woa !!!

Admiral Chemix,

i began to wonder if there were a normal person here who is enough open minded to understant both parties...... :)
So people who don't agree with you aren't "normal" or "open minded"? "woa !!!", no arrogance there.

If people want to just chat, explore, and role-play on a server without fear of being "lamed", you don't need an admin mod with all those abuse commands. Just put these lines in your server config file:

seta g_forcepowerDisable "12760" //disables all Dark Forces, Push, and Pull
seta g_weapondisable "524279" //disables all guns and explosives
seta g_saberdamagescale "0"
//lightsabers do minimal damage, or set to "0.1", "0.2", etc. for a little more damage for very long and honorable duels. Don't forget to bow first!

It will be pretty hard for anyone to be "lamed" or "killed" in any way with those settings.
Then to inform people as to the nature of the server:

seta sv_hostname "^6Honorable Role-playing, Chatting, and Exploring Server- Lamers Keep Out!"
seta g_MOTD "^6RPG, chat or explore only, no fighting allowed, except for honorable duels!"

With those settings everyone can be happy and leave each other alone to play the way they like, without the abuse of adminmods.

slider
12-15-2003, 06:18 PM
if the problem is the admin cmds, i don't think a client side pk3 will solve the problem because a lot of server love the admin cmds and they might all want to install the full mod and not a part....


according to me , by giving the oportunity to server owners to disallow all cmd admins, they can create a server where the rule is "NO rule" without being afraid of abusing admin....

Admiral Chemix
12-15-2003, 06:41 PM
Slider please read my previous post on page three, the one thats as long as one of kurgans speeches (no offense intended towards kurgan, merely a joke about post sizes)

Agen
12-15-2003, 07:16 PM
Slider, If an admin wants the abusive commands he'll download that version, it's not like he/she's accidentally abusing people and ruining other people's fun.

Also RGP, a client-side dl won't solve anything, only give grief and long dls if downloading from a server (which will lag everyone), not only that but there's no need for it since anything that will be put in it, doesn't need to be client side. ?????

Master William
12-15-2003, 07:34 PM
Locked for repetive discussions.

http://www.lucasforums.com/images/hotlockfolder.gif!

Oh god, did I say that loud?

_PerfectAgent_
12-15-2003, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by slider
if the problem is the admin cmds, i don't think a client side pk3 will solve the problem because a lot of server love the admin cmds and they might all want to install the full mod and not a part....
:confused: Yes it can have all the admin junk. You can have all that stuff and still make the client download it.

according to me , by giving the oportunity to server owners to disallow all cmd admins, they can create a server where the rule is "NO rule" without being afraid of abusing admin....
But that doesn't mean that the server owner will disallow it, hardly any of them disallow all that junk. Just remove 'em.

Rad Blackrose
12-15-2003, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by Master William
I feel a familiar smell... It's... a flamethrower :eek:

Damn right you did, now shut up before I blowtorch your soapbox for the umpteenth time, ****ing relentless board troll.

Now, where was I... Oh yes. Despite Professor Kurgan Longwinded, Amidala, and others attempts to reason with slider, he remains to be a rather dense fellow.

First of all, those "commands" you so love to boast about, the ones where you can lock down admin commands deemed abusable... This goes back to unnamed's post in relation to rcon. People are clueless as hell about rcon. Instead of learning about the Quake III engine, or any engine in particular, people feel the need to download these to administrate their server because they cannot do so with the resources provided.

Not only do you a.) get clueless newbie administrators who do not know how to lock down these abusive commands, and instead run them out in the open, but b.) you get the proliferation of material that causes wide scale abuse on a multitude of levels.

Instead, you decide to disavow the actions of those who use your mod in favor of abusable actions, evade rational/reasonable thought and arguments with arrogance, and disregard history in favor of "1337ness."

At least ChosenOne and Hex are looking into ways to absolve and eradicate the abusive commands. Your ****job is comparable to BOFH's POS hackjob of Dest's JediMOD in JKII.

And just for good measure.

http://www.ascendancy.net/tribalwar/grammar.jpg

I swore I had a premonition of this happening.

EDIT: I also swear that I get BOTF and BOFH mixed up.

Marker0077
12-15-2003, 10:56 PM
I tried contacting Slider on this via PM here on the forums but recieved no response. I wanted to do this that way because TBH, I'm tired of repeating myself on this topic but I am going to for the good of the community; or at least in the efforts for.

I apologize about this large post but again, this isn't the first time I've (actually we've) had to deal with this topic so I just want to cover anything that might be said in reply before it is said.

For those of you who don't know me, I'm the lead developer on the Cool Mods project & I work almost every day with most of the big name coders in the community for concept design on their projects & some other various things as well.

The coders & I are very concerned with some of these commands because we don't want to destroy the JK3 community like the abusive commands have destroyed the JK2. It *is* the coders responsibility to not allow abusive commands get into the hands of the community because there are people out there who will abuse them.

Let's go over the WBB rule again, shall we folks...#1 Warn them: Some of the coders are developing a command like the say command that puts large text in the center of this players screen so they don't miss what the admin is warning them about.

If they continue to violate your rules or whatever the case may be you...

#2 Boot them: Once they get booted, they have the opportunity to join up once again but at least get the picture that you're not messing around with them.

Maybe even having a "we strictly enforce the Warn, Boot, Ban rule here" message in the MotD so they get the picture even better.

If they continue to violate your rules or whatever the case may be you...

#3 Ban them: There are 2 types of connections, static & dynamic. If they have a static IP they are stuck with 1 IP only & if it's a dynamic IP, there are only 256 different IPs that person can use. Chosen One has a command that bans out a certain IP range specifically for dynamic IP users.Following the Warn, Boot, Ban rule will ALWAYS solve your problem without abusing admin functions - ALWAYS. Anything other than this is admin abuse & makes the admin certainly no better than the "lamer" client user the admin is using the abusive commands against. Furthermore, no one has said anything to prove to me (or anyone else for that matter, imparticularly the other coders of the community) that these commands provide anything useful to the community. It just simply destroys it.

Example:
Lets say a guy goes out & buys JA. He finally figures out how to join an online game & joins a server running this mod (since this is server-side, more than likely not even knowing this is a modd'ed server). He doesn't bow before battle and/or attacks a person while they are bowing, not knowing any better because he just bought the game; Or maybe the guy is just kicking the admins butt so the admin of the server labels him a "lamer" & slaps the guy around, freezes him does all kinds of other uncool things etc; etc. so the guy leaves the server & joins another. Now this happens to him again & again from time to time. Would you want to keep playing the game if this is kept happening to you? This was a very mild example of some of the stuff people do with these types of commands in their power. This *was* the biggest downfall in JK2.Please join the other coders in the community in this effort. Some of the coders that have already joined in this effort are Chosen One (Jedi Academy mod for JK2 & Jedi Academy Reloaded mod for JK3 coder), Mars (Vulcanus admin mod for JK2 coder), Razorace (MotF for JK2, JK3(?), & OJP coder), Lee Oattes (Duelers mod for JK2 & JK3 coder) isn't actually "in" our circle for the most part but does agree with our feelings towards the commands, Moria (bladeworks mod coder (all the @BWN servers)), RenegadeOfPhunk (Movie Battles mod for JK2 & JK3(?) coder), etc; etc. There are some others as well but those are the ones (aside from Lee) I am personally in contact with the most.

The standard stereotypical mentality of the admin abusers is "Well if you give them a good slap, they might just reconsider being a lamer next time" but that's WRONG - THEY MIGHT JUST RECONSIDER PLAYING JK ALTOGETHER, THUS THE "DESTROYING OUR COMMUNITY" COMES INTO PLAY. If you are the type of person who says "good, we get rid of them either way" then it's appearent that the only person you care about is yourself. You only want what you want even if that means turning others off to the game. There are other options that are not abusive & are effective.

Slider - don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking you or your mod dude. I'm sure you have some good stuff in here but any of these types of commands should be removed. There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON WHATSOEVER why an admin would need to explode a player, slap a player, use any cheats that gives admins more ammo/health than everyone else or refill or whatever, etc; etc. these types of commands have been abused in the past & will continue to be abused in the future if you allow it.

As always when dealing with the abusive admin commands topic, I'm going to refer as many of the coders & other developers in the community I know to this thread so they can put in their 2 cents as well. Some of which already have.

razorace
12-15-2003, 11:30 PM
I'm Razor Ace, creator and main programmer for Master of the Force and the Open Jedi Project. I agree with Marker0077's statement.

Please remove the abusable commands from your mod.

TK-8252
12-16-2003, 02:36 AM
Originally posted by Rumor
Wrong TK82347723497987347

You can private chat any person in the server from anywhere on the map. I've said many times, call me TK. Unnamed calls me TK, why not you?

And no you CANNOT private chat with people from anywhere on the map. You have to have your crosshair aimed at a certain person to private chat with them.

g//plaZma
12-16-2003, 02:47 AM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
I've said many times, call me TK. Unnamed calls me TK, why not you?

And no you CANNOT private chat with people from anywhere on the map. You have to have your crosshair aimed at a certain person to private chat with them.

Nope, wrong. There's a console command to private message a certain client number in the server.

Ask rumor what the command is because I forgot and haven't really ever used mm3 in the first place.

Rad Blackrose
12-16-2003, 03:22 AM
I swore that was how MM4 worked... That or I'm nuts.

I remember being able to do it.

Rumor
12-16-2003, 03:32 AM
no that is a base q3 console feature.

/tell <client id or name> <message>

not really that hard.

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1406451#post1406451

i guess that is mm4 rad seeing as when i bind mm4 it doesn't really do anything.

Side
12-16-2003, 08:19 AM
Slider,how those command are essential for admin?

cuz so far they did more bad than good,maybe mute could be useful but not a "must"

id rather gettin kicked/banned than being humiliated by the whole server if i was a newbie

Kurgan
12-16-2003, 08:50 AM
slider: you say you are going to make two version of the JA+ mod in the future.. one with abusable amlame commands (only for good and careful admins) and one with out them (for the majority).

My question for you is, HOW will you determine who the "good" and "careful" admins are who will use the abusable command version?

HOw will you prevent "bad" admins from trying to get the abusable version and giving it to their abuse-happy friends?


Btw guys, Xmod2 2.1.2 already has an anti-laming feature.

Here is how it works:

(with the command set by the admin):

Anybody turns off their saber completely (ie: only works for saber, not melee or one blade off).

They have to stand still for 15 seconds (the admin can change this time and it is announced to everyone). That means they can't do ANY ACTION except aiming with the mouse or chatting. IF they switch weapons, crouch, turn on saber, the clock resets until they turn off the saber and stand still again.

After the 15 seconds (Or whatever time) is up, they become totally invincible. The instant they do an action they are fully vulnerable again.

HOWEVER, they are only invulnerable to Force Powers, Melee Attacks and Saber attacks. Guns fully hurt them, so people can't abuse this feature in a guns server (and honor folk only care about sabers anyway).

All an admin has to do if they want honor on their server, simply make it sabers only, and it will be foolproof!

During their invulnerable period, Force attacks and melee attacks (like kicks) do nothing to them.

If a person slashes them with a saber or throws a saber blade at them, the blade immediately shuts off and falls to the floor for a few seconds (admin decides this, but it was 1-3 seconds I think). Also a text message appears on the "Lamer"'s screen telling them what happened.

This "honor feature" is going to be in the next version of Xmod2.. that's what Hex, the creator of the mod told me when he showed me the feature on his server.

THIS feature will revolutionize admin mods, so talk to Master Hex, I'm sure he'd share how to do it on your's. Amslap will thus become useless and admin authors will not mind removing it and the honor players (except the bullies who just want to humiliate people) will be okay with it.

Thus there is no need to punish "lamers." People who want to stand around with saber off and chat can do so without fear of being killed by lamers!

And it can't be abused because you have to stand still for 15 seconds and you can't do anything but chat and look around!

slider, you really should talk to Hex, maybe he'll share that part of the code and you can be a hero to the community!

Admiral Chemix
12-16-2003, 10:43 AM
GEEZ MAN, you can't make all modders do exactly what you want, abusive admin= leave server and go somewhere else, admins will lame with and without these commands if they wish, destroying mods with the only purpose to stop what has already happened makes little sense.

Sarah J
12-16-2003, 10:45 AM
you clearly dont read what people have been saying, so hush

Admiral Chemix
12-16-2003, 11:01 AM
I have read everything. They say take out all admin commands/emotes except kick, ban and the originals

Sarah J
12-16-2003, 11:05 AM
GEEZ MAN, you can't make all modders do exactly what you want, abusive admin= leave server and go somewhere else, admins will lame with and without these commands if they wish, destroying mods with the only purpose to stop what has already happened makes little sense.


you have been reading eh? then you wouldn't of needed to post that

Admiral Chemix
12-16-2003, 11:13 AM
just because I read something, doesn't mean I agree

Sarah J
12-16-2003, 11:16 AM
Never said you had to agree, i ment that what you said has been said before and people have reply to also, basicly covering what you said

sorry i have poor english

Side
12-16-2003, 11:16 AM
it been said many time in this thread and il repeat again just cuz i have mucho <3 for u

99.9% server are like that

Admiral Chemix
12-16-2003, 11:25 AM
no they aren't, I've been to lots of servers, when I had the ability to go to servers at all that is, many had non abusive admins,

Sarah J
12-16-2003, 11:27 AM
about 90% of servers on this mod ive been following the rules, even though i had no idea what laming even was when i first play , i was "lamed" by an admin of a mod that is made to stop "laming", this mod causes it more than it prevents it

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-16-2003, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
no they aren't, I've been to lots of servers, when I had the ability to go to servers at all that is, many had non abusive admins,

LOL, I noticed you say "many" had non-abusive admins, not "all" or "most".

Isn't it more accurate to say "some" or "a few" had non-abusive admins?

Isn't it true that "many" admins on "honor" servers don't behave very honorably at all, abusing and humiliating kids who are just trying to play a game that way it was designed to be played? (Hint: weapons are available and the loading screen says "Rules: defeat your enemies to score points".)

Prime
12-16-2003, 02:09 PM
Why not just remove the potentially bad commands in the first place, then there definitely won't be any abuse. All the tools you need to admin a server are already included in the game. Anything else is just a power trip.

Ah f*** it. I'm staying at Chop Shop.

slider
12-16-2003, 02:39 PM
hi everybody

do not think that i don't read with attention all your speeches.....

i am curenntly trying to find a compromise in order to satisfy evry points of view.....

the idea of Hex seems to be great.....
the only problem is, that lamer will abuse of the invulnerability just after having lamed......

so it is very defficult to find a good solution that do not alter the personal liberty........


moreover i like the admin cmds that are in my mod, they have become very usefull with immature peole who come into my server only to reuni the gamplay of others.....

so i continue ot examine all propositions

Sarah J
12-16-2003, 03:04 PM
You mean you enjoy making fun of new players that simply dont understand "no laming" with your commands

Ardent
12-16-2003, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by Sarah J
You mean you enjoy making fun of new players that simply dont understand "no laming" with your commands

I don't understand the rules on most servers, even though I usually take the time to check and see if there ARE any posted at their website (never are, FYI).

So I just play how I play and if I get banned, oh wells. There ARE good games out there. ;)

Side
12-16-2003, 03:45 PM
of course there is......ask a total newbie
to find one

Master William
12-16-2003, 05:05 PM
Rad, just STFU, ****ing flaming bitch. Go sit in your lone dark corner. I think we all heard your ''cry more'' and ''hold on... I'm calling idiot.'' and all that very stupid bull****.
PLEASE (please) STFU and reply with posts that make any sense. I'm surprised kurgan hasn't warned you so far.
Judging by your stupid posts, we can all probably understand from what part of the earth you come from. Or what the hell, no one knows what planet you inherit from.

Anyway, it would be cool having chat boxes that was a square black box saying ''KILL ME'', showing an arror pointing down at the person. ;)
Also, slider, only use these commands for your admin mod:

kick, kickban, ban, sleep, silence, and rename.
I've stated my reasons in either this thread or the JA Reloaded thread before, so if you're wondering why I think sleep or anything else I mentioned is there, just look for it in the JA Reloaded thread.

And again, Rad turns every thread into a war thread. Why did you register here to begin with? Because it has been a long long time since I saw a post from you that wasn't a flame. No matter how much I try to tell you to calm down and stop the flaming and all that crap - you just continue. That is where Kurgan comes in.

[ Edit: Master William, I don't care who started it, this is your last warning, to STOP FLAMING. If he did it first, be the bigger man and don't respond in kind. Thank you. ]

Side
12-16-2003, 05:10 PM
Change your avatar plz =(
it scare me


and why name change is required?
so far admin that abused that command change people name to ************

GothiX
12-16-2003, 05:13 PM
No sleep, no silence, no rename. An admin can warn them that they'll be kicked if they don't shut up/change their name.

I also just played a server where an admin put people to sleep "just for fun", so his clanmates could attack them. That was just ridiculous, and shows how much the command can be abused.

Agen
12-16-2003, 05:17 PM
the only problem is, that lamer will abuse of the invulnerability just after having lamed......
how can he lame the person if he is invincible????

EDIT: Made F all sense :p

Rumor
12-16-2003, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by Master William
And again, Rad turns every thread into a war thread. Why did you register here to begin with? Because it has been a long long time since I saw a post from you that wasn't a flame. No matter how much I try to tell you to calm down and stop the flaming and all that crap - you just continue. That is where Kurgan comes in.

shhhh when you reply like that you turn a thread into a flame fest.

The awareness of the ambiguity of one's highest achievements (as well as one's deepest failures) is a definite symptom of maturity.


^ work on that please mw.

also have a good ponder on this one:

Half the controversies in the world are verbal ones; and could they be brought to a plain issue they would be brought to a prompt termination. Parties engaged in them would then perceive either that in substance they agreed together, or that their difference was one of first principles. We need not dispute, we need not prove, we need but define. At all events, let us, if we can, do this first of all and then see who are left for us to dispute; what is left for us to prove.


now if you want to continue flaming him or anyone MAKE A THREAD FOR IT LIKE MASTERSIDIOUS DID FOR FK ON GAMINGFORUMS THX.

Master William
12-16-2003, 05:30 PM
Hmm... Any admin command can be abused. I think you can kick people ''for fun'' and also ban them ''for fun''. Realize that silence can be used to shut up stupid asses who are spamming the server or similar, and sleep can be used to make people read the rules, because they're obviously not focusing on the rules

Side
12-16-2003, 05:30 PM
we need a forum that could have JediKnight forum flame war =) that would pwn

xMod offer a feature like that,
if any1 use a name like......IPWNURMOM
right when he get into the game it change his name to padawan

GothiX
12-16-2003, 05:36 PM
For the kick abuse - it decreases the amount of players drastically, therefore it rarely happens. As for the silence, best would be a client-side solution, bit like an IRC ignore list.

_PerfectAgent_
12-16-2003, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by slider
hi everybody

do not think that i don't read with attention all your speeches.....
We pay attention to your replies.

i am curenntly trying to find a compromise in order to satisfy evry points of view.....

the idea of Hex seems to be great.....
the only problem is, that lamer will abuse of the invulnerability just after having lamed......
I didn't like that idea anyway...

so it is very defficult to find a good solution that do not alter the personal liberty........
Just take away the abusive junk, the community will benefit as a whole.

moreover i like the admin cmds that are in my mod, they have become very usefull with immature peole who come into my server only to reuni the gamplay of others.....
...The immature people being the admins. Just because you use it responsibly doesn't mean everyone will be responsible.

so i continue ot examine all propositions
A proposition repeated by many is, "Remove the abusive junk."

GothiX
12-16-2003, 06:04 PM
Amen.

Rad Blackrose
12-16-2003, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by Master William
Rad, just STFU, ****ing flaming bitch. Go sit in your lone dark corner. I think we all heard your ''cry more'' and ''hold on... I'm calling idiot.'' and all that very stupid bull****.
PLEASE (please) STFU and reply with posts that make any sense. I'm surprised kurgan hasn't warned you so far.
Judging by your stupid posts, we can all probably understand from what part of the earth you come from. Or what the hell, no one knows what planet you inherit from.

Anyway, it would be cool having chat boxes that was a square black box saying ''KILL ME'', showing an arror pointing down at the person. ;)
Also, slider, only use these commands for your admin mod:

kick, kickban, ban, sleep, silence, and rename.
I've stated my reasons in either this thread or the JA Reloaded thread before, so if you're wondering why I think sleep or anything else I mentioned is there, just look for it in the JA Reloaded thread.

And again, Rad turns every thread into a war thread. Why did you register here to begin with? Because it has been a long long time since I saw a post from you that wasn't a flame. No matter how much I try to tell you to calm down and stop the flaming and all that crap - you just continue. That is where Kurgan comes in.

Take your drama and go find someone who gives two ****s and a ****.

Want to know why I am posting right now? Want to know why my crosshairs are right on your pathetic melon? Simple.

You're a retarded drama queen.

Oh nos! People are insulting me! My honerz iz at steak!!111 Oh please, get over yourself. You try and talk ****, and when you get called on it, you cry worse then the honor fanbois.

That's right. You're no longer an honor fanboi. Your level of impotence and lack of spine, as well as a dense forehead and utter cluelessness, has transcended you above and beyond them.

So while you're sitting there gnashing your teeth and crying your eyes out because you can't even begin to comprehend complexities beyond your puny imagination, I'll sit back, have my tea, and discuss with people who actually can see both sides of the fence, such as Kurgan, Razorace, etc.

What's the catch in all this? You're a retarded, two-bit, half faced twit who deserves to be knocked down a peg for being mentally incapable.

I've seen worse in my time, guaranteed, but at least they know when to shut up, fall over, and and die.

You want to play the little "i'm innocent, you're not" game? Two to tango, asshat. Remember that.

So stop derailing these threads with your inane crap, because I'm tired of it, and I damn well am not the only one.


[ Edit: Sigh.. you and MW are made for each other, like the "Odd Couple." Can't you just simply ignore each other's stupid remarks? He called me naughty names so I'm going to call him naughty names back!

Enough already. Debate all you want, but enough of the flames and flame baits... that goes for both of you: Rad & MW. ]

mknote
12-16-2003, 07:26 PM
Sing it, brother!

MK

Sarah J
12-16-2003, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by _PerfectAgent_
A proposition repeated by many is, "Remove the abusive junk"
posted else where by Slider
remove it yourself



Slider is amazing at solutions
:biggs:

TK-8252
12-16-2003, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by g//plaZma
There's a console command to private message a certain client number in the server. Only administrators have access to client numbers.

Sarah J
12-16-2003, 07:51 PM
No tk. all clients can type /serverstatus in any game which gives client numbers.

TK-8252
12-16-2003, 07:54 PM
Hmm... but aren't those client numbers inaccurate? If you use /rcon clientkick (client number found from /serverstatus) the wrong person will always be kicked. /Serverstatus has different client numbers from what /rcon status uses. Does /tell use the client numbers from /serverstatus or /rcon status?

Sarah J
12-16-2003, 07:56 PM
allways works for me, maybe when wrong clients are kicked its that spectator bug or sumthing, but its allways worked for me, serverstatus isnt an admin command, well maybe it is but it works without being admin

g//plaZma
12-16-2003, 08:06 PM
Yeah, serverstatus works for me too.

TK-8252
12-16-2003, 08:08 PM
Nice... I'll have to try that!

Marker0077
12-16-2003, 08:29 PM
This post is in response about allowing the use of abusive admin commands on certain servers. This topic came up with the DCMod coder & so I'm going to tell everyone here the same thing that I told them.

Obviously the abusive version of the mod should not be public & precautions should be taken in case it does leak out publically...The only way to realistically make that work is if you give each copy that was distributed its own number & secondary rcon password that is unchangeable (each one being a different password of course). The purpose of the number is if a copy of the mod is released against the guilds wishes, you know where it got released from (or who actually). The purpose of the secondary rcon password that is unchangeable is you can publically post that password for those copies that have been distributed against the guilds will & whomever is running it will more than likely ditch the mod when the guild members constantly shut that persons server down.

All in all, it's all too much work for something that's not even necessarry in the first place. Bottom line here is, these commands destroy the community & provide absolutely nothing legitimately useful in return for it. I fail to see the point.There is absolutely nothing useful in any way shape or form about these abusive commands, aside from perhaps allowing jerk admins get juvenile jollies like a little kid on a playground being a bully. These commands are not necessarry & furthermore, they *can not* bring any good to the community, only bad. Seems like a lot of work for nothing to me.

Rad Blackrose
12-16-2003, 08:46 PM
Marker, it's nice to see you've put your past behind you and have started working up again.

A congrats is in order.

Good arguments.

Master William
12-16-2003, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
Take your drama and go find someone who gives two ****s and a ****.

Want to know why I am posting right now? Want to know why my crosshairs are right on your pathetic melon? Simple.

You're a retarded drama queen.

Oh nos! People are insulting me! My honerz iz at steak!!111 Oh please, get over yourself. You try and talk ****, and when you get called on it, you cry worse then the honor fanbois.

That's right. You're no longer an honor fanboi. Your level of impotence and lack of spine, as well as a dense forehead and utter cluelessness, has transcended you above and beyond them.

So while you're sitting there gnashing your teeth and crying your eyes out because you can't even begin to comprehend complexities beyond your puny imagination, I'll sit back, have my tea, and discuss with people who actually can see both sides of the fence, such as Kurgan, Razorace, etc.

What's the catch in all this? You're a retarded, two-bit, half faced twit who deserves to be knocked down a peg for being mentally incapable.

I've seen worse in my time, guaranteed, but at least they know when to shut up, fall over, and and die.

You want to play the little "i'm innocent, you're not" game? Two to tango, asshat. Remember that.

So stop derailing these threads with your inane crap, because I'm tired of it, and I damn well am not the only one.

Hmm... STFU

[ Edit: I'll let this one go simply because you posted this BEFORE you read my warning. But don't let it happen again. ]

Rumor
12-16-2003, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
Only administrators have access to client numbers.

the only difference between /rcon status and /serverstatus is the rcon one gives you ip, port, and a few other things. would be stupid if it assigned differen't #'s to each person and had to keep track of them, wouldn't it?

Rumor
12-16-2003, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by Master William
Hmm... STFU

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

TK-8252
12-17-2003, 02:35 AM
/serverstatus does indeed give different client numbers from the /rcon status. The /tell command uses the client numbers from /serverstatus, and /rcon clientkick uses the numbers from /rcon status.

And you guys, please stop flamming... are we trying to set a record for most threads closed for flamming in the Jedi Academy forum?

No need to get personal, my friends.

Rad Blackrose
12-17-2003, 03:26 AM
And you guys, please stop flamming... are we trying to set a record for most threads closed for flamming in the Jedi Academy forum?

I'd love to TK, but you should know me enough by now that I don't tolerate stupid comments in the slightest degree.

I'm not afraid to bash myself on said comments when it does happen.

Anyways... Lets set this badboy back prior to derail status.

While I'm glad you found the /tell command, I remember there being some sort of a /reply command that did not require the crosshair to be on the target... It only worked when someone mm3'd you. That's why I refer to it as mm4. It was bound to I by default, I believe.

Kurgan
12-17-2003, 04:02 AM
Hex is releasing Xmod 2.2.0 next week. Check it out and see the solution to the "h0n0rz/amlame" debate!


slider... take notes!

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=119897



Few misc things:

slider, saying "remove them yourself" is pointless, because that would require your source code to be public, in which case it's meaningless again because the original version of the mod has the abusive commands and anybody who downloads it has the potential to become an abuser OF those commands.

Really, check out Xmod2 next week and you'll see how good the new system they use is. Trust me, if you can find a way to abuse it, Hex will fix it so you can't. It is very good so far, and I can't see it being abused, not like the amslap commands.


Side:
we need a forum that could have JediKnight forum flame war =) that would pwn

We tried that once a few years back, it didn't work. It ended up being shut down because people just kept on posting graphicly obscene crap over and over and never stopped, just getting angrier and angrier. It didn't solve anything.

If you want to setup your own forum someplace else for that sort of thing, be my guest, but don't say I didn't warn you!

slider
12-17-2003, 06:20 AM
ok i follow the debate but not during 2 weeks cause of hollidays......

hex has cool idea i think....

yesterday i had a conversation with Marker0077......


we aborded several solution, some are for me good and some not.....

but for the moment, the acceptable solution for me are hard to realize (too much time to spend)


but i still continue to find a solution without altering the personal liberty

slider
12-17-2003, 06:26 AM
in the next version of my mod, i had planned to make other features of the gameplay.....

but in parallel, i am thinking about a system which could permit to disallow admin cmd of servers that abuse......

i am still trying to fond a goood solution without removing the cmd i love and the peronal liberty...

FK | unnamed
12-17-2003, 06:43 AM
Originally posted by TK8252MJL
/serverstatus does indeed give different client numbers from the /rcon status. The /tell command uses the client numbers from /serverstatus, and /rcon clientkick uses the numbers from /rcon status.


he's right about the #'s.

serverstatus gives bogus #'s.

However, you *can still float around in spec mode (free float) and put a cross hair on a person and pm them if you bound it to a key.

and side, change your avatar, it's too rpg-ish.

you should post one of your side picture stories as well.

;)

Side
12-17-2003, 07:03 AM
hmmmmm il try to make one...but 70x70 is kinda small for such a great avatar like mine

P-S:since my side story is beating record

here it is
http://div3rseteam.fragism.com/sidestory.jpg

Master William
12-17-2003, 07:13 AM
Originally posted by Rumor
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

:jawa Boo Teenie? :jawa :p

Kurgan
12-17-2003, 09:43 AM
Thanks for the tips guys, I tried out the \serverstatus and \tell commands on my server and they worked (sent a 'private message' to myself, heh).

Side
12-17-2003, 10:10 AM
NOOOOOOO KURGAN REMOVED MY STORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sarah J
12-17-2003, 10:32 AM
lmao side is just <3 your sig

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-17-2003, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by Sarah J
lmao side is just <3 your sig

Sarah, if you love Side's sig, you will love this short film:

Tales for the L33T (Romeo and Juliet for the El33t) (http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/romeoandjuliet.html)

Sarah J
12-17-2003, 01:21 PM
lol

GothiX
12-17-2003, 01:47 PM
Bwahahahaha.. gawld.. err, gold.

_PerfectAgent_
12-17-2003, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by slider
i totally agree with you


but i am enough open minded to understand the point of wiew of non "honorz" players.....
So remove the commands then.

a lot of people love demanded me to add all the admins functions because they are more in a "honorz" way of life.....
They don't know that all that's unnecessary. Such as someone asking for the ability to freeze anyone who attacks someone else
saber down.

But it is easy for me to make later a version in parrallele with admin light cmd only for player who can't stand the word "admin"
But that doesn't mean that abusive admins won't download the one packed with so much unnecessary stuff.

i understand both point of view....
So remove the commands, as Warn, Kick, Ban is enough.

but all people that despite my work on this forum seems to not understand that there is not only their point of view ......
We understand that there are other points of views, that's why we're debating on this.

this forum and the admins of this forum are not enough open minded and can't stand the opinion that differs from theirs
We just don't agree.

you can also disable all admin cmds with my mods :)
But that doesn't mean that the server owner will disallow it.

and if your server is withour rules =+> so it becomes also THE RULES...

the rules is no rules and everybody coming in your server know it
That's not what we're talking about. Besides, not everyone owns a server..

so there is not pb i understand that u disallow all admin cmds in order to prevent kids using them because there is no rule and so no good admin behaviour imposed to all admins....

But that doesn't mean that the server owner will disallow it.

my solution is to provide a rcon system to disallow the admin cmd u want....

so that each server owner can do what he wants :

and this possibility to disallow each cmds is already coded
But that doesn't mean that the server owner will disallow it.

but in parallel, i am thinking about a system which could permit to disallow admin cmd of servers that abuse......

i am still trying to fond a goood solution without removing the cmd i love and the peronal liberty...
Just remove the commands, they are not necessary.

Rumor
12-17-2003, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Master William
:jawa Boo Teenie? :jawa :p

boo hoo?

Prime
12-17-2003, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
check out Xmod2 next week I will. I have been playing on the Chop Shop servers a lot lately (which use XMod2) and I love it. Funny thing is, I didn't think I would, since it has re-introduced flipkicks and things of that sort. I'm not really a competative player, but XMod has been a lot of fun. I don't know all the settings on the Chop Shop servers, but I find them ideal. With the upped saber damage and JA knockdown moves, flip kicks have become just another weapon in the arsenal.

Funny how opinions change :)

g//plaZma
12-17-2003, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by Prime
I will. I have been playing on the Chop Shop servers a lot lately (which use XMod2) and I love it. Funny thing is, I didn't think I would, since it has re-introduced flipkicks and things of that sort. I'm not really a competative player, but XMod has been a lot of fun. I don't know all the settings on the Chop Shop servers, but I find them ideal. With the upped saber damage and JA knockdown moves, flip kicks have become just another weapon in the arsenal.

Funny how opinions change :)

Well, as Rumor has said a few weeks ago... kick has made many saber moves useful, even without upped saber damage. It's more of a tool now like it was in JK2 before 1.04, how it should be. It's not used mainly for damage, but for knockdowns and then finishing them off with a saber attack, or kicking off of ledges. Even in the FF Duel gamemode sabers are a lot more useful.

Master William
12-17-2003, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by Rumor
boo hoo?

**** piece of ****
J/K lol, I didn't actually flame there, just a joke :p

Rumor
12-17-2003, 09:11 PM
LIES!!! LIES I TELL YOU!!!

Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity.

There are two sorts of hypocrites; ones that are deceived with their outward morality and external religion; and the other are those that are deceived with false discoveries and elevation; and men's own rigtheousness, and talk much of free grace; but at the same time make rigtheousness of their discoveries, and of their humiliation, and exalt themselves to heaven with them.

Master William
12-17-2003, 09:32 PM
... Ok. Thank you, Jesus :p
Americans like to mention hypocrites, but I'm not one ;)

I wanted to say something about JA+ Mod... Can't you add an admin command that can keep an admin/person from using a certain admin power?

Example: /amlockslap <client number>
Or /amlockslay <client number>

This would perhaps stop the admins from using the abusive commands..... As for the moment, I can't come up with better stuff.

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-17-2003, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by Master William
I wanted to say something about JA+ Mod... Can't you add an admin command that can keep an admin/person from using a certain admin power?

Example: /amlockslap <client number>
Or /amlockslay <client number>

This would perhaps stop the admins from using the abusive commands..... As for the moment, I can't come up with better stuff.

All of these admin mods allow you to selectively enable\disable commands for subadmins or all admins. My JK2 FFA-CTF server has Jedi Academy Mod 1.4, but I disabled slap, punish, empower, terminator, teleport, etc. from day one so no one could use them, not even the lone rcon admin (me).

This is slider's perseverating response:

(per·sev·er·a·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-sv-rshn)
n.
Psychology.
Uncontrollable repetition of a particular response, such as a word, phrase, or gesture, despite the absence or cessation of a stimulus, usually caused by brain injury or other organic disorder.
The tendency to continue or repeat an act or activity after the cessation of the original stimulus.
The act or an instance of persevering; perseverance.)

he keeps saying that each server operator should disable the abusive commands, and they should choose only wise and mature subadmins (at least I think that's what he keeps saying, it's a little hard to read what he writes).

The problem is people who use these mods don't\don't know how\don't want to disable those commands, and they don't often choose "wise and mature" subadmins, which inevitably results in player abuse\players being driven out of the game\empty servers. That's why those abusive commands shouldn't be made available in the first place. We've tried to explain this to him multiple times, but he keeps perseverating:
1. disable abusive commands yourself
2. you can abuse with rcon just as much
3. choose only good admins
4. if you don't like a server, go somewhere else
We point out the flaws in his arguments and point out that removing the abuse commands solves the problem simply and effectively, but he just doesn't seem to get it.

_PerfectAgent_
12-17-2003, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
We point out the flaws in his arguments and point out that removing the abuse commands solves the problem simply and effectively, but he just doesn't seem to get it.
I don't know why he doesn't get it, but I noticed a little snippet...

Originally posted by slider
i am still trying to fond a goood solution without removing the cmd i love and the peronal liberty...
He says that he loves those commands... Though it's been shown that the commands should be removed for the better.

I will answer those four points (yet disproven) slider presents over and over again in one easy to keep and walk around with cheat sheet.

:deathii: Disable abusive commands yourself.
:deathstar That does not mean that every server owner will disable them.

:deathii: You can abuse with rcon just as much.
:deathstar They abuse for fun, kicking people is less fun for them rather than humiliating or "p\/\//\/een 14/\/\4rz!!!"

:deathii: Choose only good admins.
:deathstar But the server owners often don't choose good admins.

:deathii: If you don't like a server, go somewhere else.
:deathstar To run into another server with the same problem.

(Er... :deathii:: slider's points... :deathstar:Counterexample.)

Prime
12-18-2003, 02:32 AM
Originally posted by g//plaZma
Well, as Rumor has said a few weeks ago... kick has made many saber moves useful, even without upped saber damage. And not only for offense. From the little I have played, I seem to be able to defend against a kicker by timing a red kata (I only use single saber) just as the kicker gets to you.

Originally posted by g//plaZma
It's more of a tool now like it was in JK2 before 1.04, how it should be. It's not used mainly for damage, but for knockdowns
and then finishing them off with a saber attack Definitely. It is not spammed (on average) and it is nice to have so many more knockdowns. Base JA has lots of nice recovery moves, but you never have a chance to use them. Flipkicks give many more opportunities for these.

Originally posted by g//plaZma
or kicking off of ledges. Ah, good times :)

Rumor
12-18-2003, 03:26 AM
Originally posted by Prime
Definitely. It is not spammed (on average) and it is nice to have so many more knockdowns. Base JA has lots of nice recovery moves, but you never have a chance to use them. Flipkicks give many more opportunities for these.


nah the getups suck. 1 you cant push when ur down 2 u can't pull when ur down 3 they are VERY slow.

Kurgan
12-18-2003, 05:45 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you were "down" (on the ground) in JK2 1.04 couldn't you use Force Push?

If that's not in JA, perhaps it should be added as another feature in these mods... especially with people being knocked down a lot more often by flip kicks.

Master William
12-18-2003, 11:00 AM
Good idea, I'm tired of being kicked when I'm actually lying on the ground.

slider
12-18-2003, 01:12 PM
yes u right i tkae note on that.....

the knockdonwn person MUSt be able to use force.....

Side
12-18-2003, 03:44 PM
u can as well in ja

just gotta know how to do it corectly

just hold down jump and dont press any movement key and it push right away..well .5 sec delay mb

Rumor
12-18-2003, 03:47 PM
jk2 you could push and pull from a knockdown and you could jump up fast and sometimes over their head.

when you were down you can still be kicked by the better players so you gotta time your push or pull just right with your getup. i know if pyro got you down you were dead unless you did your push or pull just right. otherwise he would just pk you over and over while you were down.

Prime
12-18-2003, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by Rumor
nah the getups suck. 1 you cant push when ur down 2 u can't pull when ur down 3 they are VERY slow. Point taken.

And push/pull were in the later versions of JO...

FK | unnamed
12-18-2003, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you were "down" (on the ground) in JK2 1.04 couldn't you use Force Push?

If that's not in JA, perhaps it should be added as another feature in these mods... especially with people being knocked down a lot more often by flip kicks.

I think that is on his to-do list.

There are really a lot of what I would call "in practice-tactical issues" with game play right now.

One member of our clan runs a duel server (see sig) and they had to disable saber throw because of the combined inability to immediately repel an attack with force push (after being grounded) and the random damage problem with saber throw (in relation to the hit box system/ghoul2).

Basically matches went like this when saber throw was enabled:

First person to score a kick knock down threw his saber at the guy on the floor and it would do up to 100 damage on impact.

Needless to say you can see how that could be an issue.

XXThe KingXX
07-06-2007, 11:27 AM
hi sorry for asking but are there other sources to download the JA+ Mod 1.3 ???

because i cant go to this site "http://www.pcgamemods.com/3375/"

please say me a other site or adresse of send me your mod because in your mod there is something like tele and i searched very long for a mod with tele rights.

so pls say me an other solution to get this file.

other question . in this files are pk3's ?

thank you

razorace
07-06-2007, 01:41 PM
try www.jk3files.com.

Slider744
07-06-2007, 01:57 PM
http://www.japlus.net for the latest version

XXThe KingXX
07-06-2007, 02:50 PM
http://www.japlus.net for the latest version



thx i find something but can you write me the link to download a mod with the right to teleport pls?????

XXThe KingXX
07-06-2007, 03:26 PM
sorry i have a adminmod now thx

but sorry for asking but how can i install this.

normaly i unzip this file and do it in the base folder and in the gamedata folder and then i start the game and load the mod . but there is no mod i cant load it and with console it dont fit. can somebody explain me how to install pls?

XXThe KingXX
07-07-2007, 03:27 AM
ok i have unzipped it in gamedata and i can load it yeeeeeeeee!!!!!

i was happy but then i saw that i cant create a server with this mod after i unzipped it in gamdata there is an error when i start the server (DEFAULT_MODEL (kyle) failed to register)
what means this and what can i do ??????

i can create an LAN server but i cant join because of the mod .

what can i do ???

XXThe KingXX
07-07-2007, 05:07 AM
this error with kyle is because of the japlus.gla.anims.pk3 in the base folder.

when i delete this pk3 file the server starts normaly .
but withour this pk3 file the admin commands are not running so what can i do ?