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View Full Version : ROTK Thread [Possible and likely Spoilers]


Darth Homer
12-17-2003, 08:18 AM
Ok, official thread for people who have seen ROTK, spoilers will no doubt be posted, go read/reread the book(s) if you really want to know what happens.

Well, furst let me say WOW!!!

and secondly OW! MY ASS!!

it seems that the theater I go to needs to redo it's seats...

oh yeah, the movie...

What can I say but I believe that this makes the trilogy the best movie set ever. Yes, you read that right...LOTR is better than Star Wars. At least until the next movie ;).

Post away! :D

STTCT
12-17-2003, 08:25 AM
God, how I hate people who say

"Go read the books if you want spoilers!"


I'm sorry but that is not always true

Look at the movie Jurassic Park...THAT WAS NOT LIKE THE BOOK.

Look at many books turned movies, they do not always stay true.

Besides....I DON"T HAVE TIME TO READ THOSE DAMN LONG BOOKS!!!

Sorry I'm venting

I'm stilled pissed off about teh Keiko thread in the swamp.

Please Devuldge Homer

I want to know what happened.

Boba Rhett
12-17-2003, 09:20 AM
I have just returned....

....from the greatest theatrical feat I most likely shall most likely ever live to see! :indif:


Heh, kinda depressing to know that. :D

I'll post a review tomorrow.

STTCT
12-17-2003, 09:30 AM
u've posted that in 2 other threads!!

I need spoilers!

ahhhh!!

Boba Rhett
12-17-2003, 09:53 AM
Fine fine, just a few!



1. I teared up many many times.

2. There's a scene where huge fire beakons are lit all across a mountain range; Gondor's signal for help. It was one of my favorite scene.

3. "THAT STILL ONLY COUNTS AS ONE!" :D Best Gimli line evar. It happens after Legolas single handedly takes down a giant elephant full of baddies, then lands right in front of an awe struck Gimli.

4. The army of the dead was so very cool. They ferociously swarm in battle.

5. There's SOOOOOOOO much music in it that isn't on the ost. I want an ultimate edition of the ost or something. :D

6. You know ho wthe average movie has a highlight sometime near the end of the movie wear you're like, "WOW!"? RotK is like one of those, over and over and over again.

7. Man there ARE a lot of endings. (Screen goes black for like five seconds then something else comes) :D I didn't mind any of them though.

8. I'm not sure how it got a pg-13 rating. There was extreme violence throughout. Heads being chucked, people being crushed all over the place, blood everywhere, TWO cases of someone being burned to death and much more!

9. When you see Denathor end himself, remember to think of my MST3K line for when he does it.

"Eh, I give the dive a ten but I doubt he'll stick the landing"

Oh how I amuse myself. :D

10. Everyone has lots of screentime.

11. I cannot WAIT for the EE edition for I know it will somehow manage to be even better than this version.



Now Peter, Bring on da Hobbit!

Clefo
12-17-2003, 01:09 PM
I would have seen it last midnight, but I have finals in 4 of my 6 classes right now, so I didn't wanna **** those up with lack of sleep. I hate Physics tests in particular.

Darth Homer
12-17-2003, 10:03 PM
First, my appologies, STTCT, I didn't realize it would anger you.

Second, I didn't post spoilers at that time because it was 3:30am or so and I was rapidly becoming very tired.

so, here we go:


I absolutely loved the battle for Minaztirith(sp?)

The best part for me was when the Riders of rohan showed up and just sliced through the orc lines.

Then the elephant charge, the ghost army, just awesome!!
I really like where the ghosts take down the elephant in the background.

When Eowyn stood up to the Witch King was the first time I had ever heard an audience clap during the middle of the movie...they litterally cheered for her.


I'm definitely going to see it again! :D

pbguy1211
12-17-2003, 10:15 PM
MINAS TIRITH. AKA Tower of the Sun and AKA the White City.

The movie was f'n awesome, but as a fan of the book a few things disappointed me.

1. Why the hell didn't we get the Gandalf/Witch-King confrontation?! It was even in the first f'n teaser trailer! What the hell? I was DYING to see Gandalf with his "You shall not pass" line again...

2. I didn't like what they did with Sam at Shelob's Lair. I wanted to see the sneak attack by Gollum and Sam, and Sam squashing him.

3. No Mouth of Sauron?

4. No Saruman?!

5. No Ghan-buri-ghan? (Kidding! :p )

6. Why don't see a decent death of the Orc Captain outside of the White City? We saw all the other orc and enemy heroes die...

7. I'm guessing the EE will show the 3 Elven rings on the hands of Elrond, Galadriel and Gandalf at the end. And hopefully everything else that I just mentioned...


But it still f'n RULED! Bring some tissues if you cry easily... or even if you don't! It's sad as all hell at the end!

Artoo
12-18-2003, 01:27 AM
I'll have to agree here, I am a Star Wars fan hardcore, books, comics, games, movies... you name it.

But the LOTR trilogy tops the Star Wars movies for best recent trilogy. Blows the prequel trilogy out of the water and earns a spot right next to the classic trilogy, but it's hard for me to say one is better than another since they were made like 25 years apart... but it definately ties if not beats the classic trilogy. The only thing that is keeping it from being my numero uno movie right now is the fact that it's too long and I'm a history fan, not a literature fan.

And this movie does that without me even being a fan of Lord of the Rings before the movies... and I still aint one. I just thought the movies rocked seriously.

That having been said, a few of the things I liked...

1. Teh battle of Minas Tirith was teh roxxor.

2. Gollum/Smeagol deserves an Oscar of some sort.

3. When the army of the dead took the oliphant down... did it look like they were a pack of mice jumping on something?

4. And then Gron came on!!! :D (I've heard of the books several times from my friends about that part)

5. There were many male life-partner scenes involving Sam&Frodo&Gollum and Merry&Pippin and Gimli&Legolas... and I laughed at all the MST3King going on. :D

6. Kudos to Rhett, the jumping scene was funny enough without the commentary.. but it fits so perfectly. :D

7. I laughed, I cried, my bladder nearly ruptured itslef down Eets leg without me even buying a drink... go see this movie.

And I saw Last Samurai last night also and it was an awesome movie in its own right... but this is just a WOW movie... or as we say here in the south, it was a humdinger of a flick. :)

darthfergie
12-18-2003, 01:51 AM
I LOVE YOU ROTK!!!!!!!!!!!
I love ROTK enough to marry it.

SOOOOO FRICKIN AWESOME...soooooo frickin awesome...I didn't even notice how long it was because I enjoyed the movie so much.

As people have already said, there were alot of scenes that made you want to cry...hell I cried when the Riders of Rohan made their huge charge because the scene was so PERFECT...down to the orcs moving out in front as skirmishers to slow them down...something you'll never see in a Star Wars movie (I'm refering to the masses of droid armies in Episode one that bugs the freaking hell out of me because it just cuts down troops and is totally NOT what they would use...twas all just for show...where as ROTK, twas not). Sure they may have pushed a few things too far...like Gollum...his performance was a far cry from what he did in Two Towers...it was a tiny bit dissapointing, but it didn't detract much from a near perfect movie.
I LOVE YOU ROTK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW, I watched the movie with 3 elves, 2 halflings and a rider of rohan (no I am not joking...full outfit)...and I watched it at 2:30 with a sold out crowd...on the way out we saw even more costumed people lined up outside the door...twas 6:00.

Rogue15
12-18-2003, 02:46 AM
BEST LOTR MOVIE!!!!!!!

holy ****....just got back from it...must...see it again!!!!!

some funny parts that werren't meant to be funny (made possible by the ****tiest and only theatre available in my area!)

THERE WAS A ****ING INTERMISSION RIGHT AFTER THAT GUY THREW HIMSELF OFF THE BUILDING!!!!

When Frodo is showing sam his book, and it goes to "by bilbo baggins and-then while he continues, the music gets all ****ed up and it sounds like a 'o yeah right' part of the movie, that prevented me from tearing up at all throughout the rest of the movie cause i couldn't stop laughing about it!

my favorite parts were (warning major spoilage ahead):


1. When the king jumped off the cliff...
2. When Frodo was holding the ring for the longest time (i swear my heart was racing)
3. when frodo turned to the dark side and put the ring on!!!
4. When the witchking got fragged...BY A GIRL!!! AND BLONDE AT THAT!!!

swphreak
12-19-2003, 03:05 PM
In the words of our Neo.... HOLY MOTHER OF ALL THINGS HOLY! er... I mean "woah."


That movie was perfect.. well....

Maybe I wanted to see the hobbits fight back for the shire, but I'll survive


This movie is priceless. The Battle at Minas Tirith pwned.

I will have to see this manymanymanymany more times.

Zygomaticus
12-19-2003, 05:08 PM
This Saturday I watch Frodo...

of the nine fingers!
:D

Sherack Nhar
12-20-2003, 02:45 AM
*steps up*

Fine. As usual, I'll be the one to be ruining the party. Slightly. I will not hide behind anything nor dodge your arrows. I am just asking you to only fire them once you're done reading my whole post. By the way, my review contains spoilers that I'm not going to mark, so just skip if you don't want to be spoiled.

When I first began watching it (Sméagol's scene), it looked promising. I liked the fact that they finally showed the origins of Gollum, and they did it pretty well from what I can remember of the book. It's been a long while since I read FotR and TTT, but I only started reading RotK a week ago. I didn't finish it, but I got past the Mount Doom chapter, then decided I knew enough to go see the movie.

I do not regret my decision, it was a good timing. However, I was stunned at the first half of the movie, and not in a good way I can assure you. I knew about the lack of closure of the Saruman story, and that did not bother me. I can live with cuts; I understand they are necessary. Even some modifications of the story, I can let them pass. But when they modify HUGE chunks of the story uselessly, it really gets to me. While Faramir was totally different in the movie version of TTT, he was still likeable.

That change was nothing compared to the utter raping of the character of Denethor in Return of the King.

Anyone who remembers the book clearly enough (as you already know, it was very fresh in my memory) will agree with me that every scene he was in was a total disaster. They stripped the character from every ounce of his grandeur and power. And that's not all: not only do they make him mad from the start, they also cut his REASON for becoming mad! How can anyone like him?! In the book, Pippin offers his service to Denethor out of respect and amazement for this man. There's none of that in the movie. He relunctantly gives his service to repay Boromir's death, only to regret having done that a few seconds later.

My second complaint (out of three) is much less significant. It was just a little complaint I have about the Frodo side of the story (which overall was marvelously done). I'm not sure I can explain why, but I definitely didn't like Gollum trying to turn Frodo against Sam. That didn't happen in the book, and it seemed out of character for Frodo (don't give me the influence of the Ring, I thought about that already). I thought the way the book handled this was more subtle (and certainly could have worked in the movie).

My third qualm is about Aragorn's quest in the Path of the Dead. I didn't think too much of the fact that the army of Rangers didn't accompany him. Again, that was a cut, and it was a good reason. I also didn't mind the fact that the undead actually reached Minas Tirith (in the book, Aragorn sends them away after the ships have been taken). They obviously had to give Aragorn an army, since they cut the rangers. No, my complain was inside the actual Path of the Dead. In the book, the dead never spoke, and they never became hostile toward Aragorn. They actually didn't appear until they were *out* of the Path of the Dead. The scene where Aragorn makes them join made me go "wow... this movie is made for those who didn't read the book, not for me".

All these things increased my dissatisfaction about the movie, and I began to fear that I would downright dislike it. At Denethor's death scene, I was so disgusted that I was about to walk out of the theater.

I didn't. And I am very glad I didn't! Because everything that followed the arrival of the Rohirrim on the plains of Pelennor was considerably better! Things really started looking up from there. What followed, I liked very much. Especially Frodo's side of the story: I believe that saved the movie. The ending was perfect (although I haven't read that part of the book yet :D) and I did tear up at the end, although for personal reasons.

Overall, I enjoyed the movie. I hope the extended cut will lessen the undescribable evil that were the Denethor scenes... at least giving him back his REASON for becoming mad (the palantir) would help!

...you can fire your arrows now :D

pbguy1211
12-20-2003, 03:04 AM
my biggest bitches: no gandalf/witch-king confrontation and the lack of sam vs. smeagol in shelob's lair.

that being said... they've done a lot more to frodo's character than have him fight with sam.
main differences from the first 2 movies...
A: He's 50 in the book when they first take off.
B: He leaves with Sam and Pippin and meet Merry later and then take off.
C: They never go to Osigiliath with Faramir. and then doesn't give in to the Ring and Nazgul THERE! THAT should be the biggest complaint is that he doesn't give in until the end.
D: He never draws his blade on Sam.
also in ROTK
he gets stung on the back of the neck/shoulder blade area by Shelob.
he doesn't fight Gollum on the cracks on doom and almost fall in.
he's nekkid after the orcs get done with him...

shall i go on? that being said... sh*t happens and we all have to deal with it.

as far as Denethor... it's tough to disagree with you there too. he's obviously gone mad, but in the book they explain clearly by his revealing of the palantir from the white tower. he sees only what sauron wants him to see when he looks into it, so he has no hope left for anything. they don't exactly explain why he's gone mad.
hell, he's lit the beacons in the book and sent the red arrow to theoden. but you have to admit that the lighting of the beacons was a really cool f'n sequence! (even though one of them is above the clouds and there's no way the fire could be seen or the people lighting it could see another one! ;)

the army of the dead? eh... no big deal. hell, he sees the corairs by looking into the stone and we don't see that. we also know that in the book he has Anduril by the time he leaves Imladris.
AND that the main point of him leaving is to go to Minas Tirith with Boromir in the first place! :) but sh*t happens... can't wait to go see it a third time soon!


but you can't deny the fact it's one bad ass movie!

Zygomaticus
12-20-2003, 03:39 AM
Pbguy

A. A 50 year old hobbit doesn't necessarily look like a 50 year old human. Bilbo is eleventy one, and he doesn't look like a hundred and eleven. Suspension in disbelief, my friend. Although I realize this wasn't a problem for you, just addressing it.

darthfergie
12-20-2003, 03:45 AM
Originally posted by krkode
Pbguy

A. A 50 year old hobbit doesn't necessarily look like a 50 year old human. Bilbo is eleventy one, and he doesn't look like a hundred and eleven. Suspension in disbelief, my friend. Although I realize this wasn't a problem for you, just addressing it.

um...sry Krk...but they apparently do...remember...Bilbo's life was suspended and he was granted long life thanks to the ring's effect to streach out someone's life. So in Fellowship he looked normal and unchanged...but in ROTK he looked very much like a 115 year old.

pbguy1211
12-20-2003, 04:25 AM
krkode:
in TTT:EE they mention that though they changed a lot in TTT, they had BIGGER changes in FOTR. the biggest of all ebing Frodo's age. And i think bilbo lived to be 129 when he went u know where... that was the oldest of any hobbit. so they should age similarly to humans in theory and oh my god... i can't beleieve we're having this discussion...
*hangs self* :p

Tie Guy
12-20-2003, 05:20 AM
Well, sorry to rain on the parade again, and i won't bother with spoilers, but i just didn't think it was that great. A good movie, to be sure, but certainly not the greatest movie of all time *cough*Rhett*cough* ;)

Some of the battle scenes were cool, but for someone who hasn't read the books and is only a casual fan of the movies, it just wasn't that great, especially...well...just about every part except the battles. And because it was so long and so much had to be cut, we didn't get any really good, long dialogue sequences. There were a few decent one or two line quotes that i liked, but overall it wasn't satisfying in terms of language/dialogue.

Oh, and i was very disappointed in the music. The trailer music is just about the coolest music ever, but they didn't use that at all in the movie, even for action. Eiethr that or the music volume wasn't mixed very well. It all seemed really slow and unecciting, and while i do like some of that, the upbeat and epic stuff is alot better.


Oh, i HATE it when people clap for events in the movie. I just wanted to stand up and tell everyone to shut up, that it isn't actually real. Argh!

Artoo
12-20-2003, 06:35 AM
Man, you would've hated me then. :D

Me and teh guy next to me were practically an entire Greek chorus conveying the emotions onscreen with our various comments and noises. :D

"That's my dawg Legolas! That's my dawg!" :cool:

Boba Rhett
12-20-2003, 10:01 AM
No reason for Denethor being the way he was in the movie? It was obviously conveyed to be the outcome of the death of his son in the movie. :indif: Perhaps in the EE they'll involve the Palantir again but it was clearly started by Boromir's demise in this cut of the film.

Even in the book his depression spiral was started by the death of his son. Add his utter distaste for Gandalf and you have perfect reasoning for the way he acted in his scenes. His crazyness was only ever supposedly having to do with what he saw in the palantir.

(don't give me the influence of the Ring, I thought about that already)

So you're essentially saying, "Don't give me the correct answer to my question, I thought about that already." :indif: The ring was making him extremely paranoid. Gollum knew this and took advantage of it. I'd have been disappointed if that angle wasn't worked.


I'm sure in the following days Eets and I will take turns cluster-beating this all into you. :wavey:


The army of the dead appearing inside the cave instead of outside is an issue? Who the hell cares? :confused:



And there's nothing wrong with clapping during scenes of a movie, Tie. You're just mad that there were no Vong. :p



Sincerely,

Rhett, Return of the King is the best movie ever, Peterson

Rogue15
12-20-2003, 11:02 AM
I thought the music was pretty sweet. the part where pippin started singing almost scared me, not becasue it was bad, but casue i didn't expect him to sing and it so fitted that battle scene

Sherack Nhar
12-20-2003, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by Boba Rhett
No reason for Denethor being the way he was in the movie? It was obviously conveyed to be the outcome of the death of his son in the movie. :indif: Perhaps in the EE they'll involve the Palantir again but it was clearly started by Boromir's demise in this cut of the film.

Even in the book his depression spiral was started by the death of his son. Add his utter distaste for Gandalf and you have perfect reasoning for the way he acted in his scenes. His crazyness was only ever supposedly having to do with what he saw in the palantir.Wrong! In the book, right after his son dies, that's what triggers his impulse to look in the palantir, and only after that does he really abandon all hopes. Read the book again Rhett; you said it yourself, you needed to read it again. You'll see how much more subtle it was, much more beautiful.

So you're essentially saying, "Don't give me the [b]correct answer to my question, I thought about that already." :indif: The ring was making him extremely paranoid. Gollum knew this and took advantage of it. I'd have been disappointed if that angle wasn't worked.The correct answer is in the book: there was no such thing :P And the angle *was* worked in the book. And I prefered the way the book handled it.
I'm sure in the following days Eets and I will take turns cluster-beating this all into you. :wavey:Actually, Eets was very nice about it and respected my opinion. He understood my point of view and I understood his.
The army of the dead appearing inside the cave instead of outside is an issue? Who the hell cares? :confused:Well I obviously do, or else I wouldn't have mentionned it. My main complaint was about Denethor; the rest were mostly nitpicking that I wanted to point out for those who didn't read the book... or those who can't remember much of it.


Also, I'd like to mention something else. Surprisingly, the book made me feel many more emotions than the movie did. I honestly didn't expect that to happen, because I usually am a very visual person, and the music really moves me. But, I'm not sure why, there were three moments in the story where the book left me in awe, and the movie didn't:
1. When Merry stabs the Nazgul
2. When Aragorn arrives on the Pelennor fields, saving the day
3. The destruction of the Ring, obviously.

pbguy1211
12-20-2003, 05:26 PM
you KNEW that Aragorn was on those ships when reading the book. just like you knew gollum was going into the fire along with the ring in the end.
and while on that note... you KNEW Denethor had a palantir in hiding that he looked into.

Zygomaticus
12-20-2003, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by darthfergie
um...sry Krk...but they apparently do...remember...Bilbo's life was suspended and he was granted long life thanks to the ring's effect to streach out someone's life. So in Fellowship he looked normal and unchanged...but in ROTK he looked very much like a 115 year old.

oh. :indif:

My bad, then.

That said, according to the stuff at the back of the book, Aragorn is supposed to be 84 at the time of the events of the Lord of the Rings...

Boba Rhett
12-20-2003, 07:18 PM
84? I thought he said 87 in the EE cut of TTT. He lived to be close to 200 I think. And for hobbits, their 50 supposedly equels a man's 30

darthfergie
12-20-2003, 07:26 PM
no...I think the book did do a better job of Aragorn's arrival. I didn't know he was on those ships in the books...they had all of the people thinking "Oh crap...reinforcements of the army of Mordor...we're screwed...WAIT! HOLY HECK IT'S ARAGORN!!!!!!"

at least that's how I remember it...has been a while...

Zygomaticus
12-20-2003, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by Boba Rhett
84? I thought he said 87 in the EE cut of TTT.

That's probably right. I think it was Theoden who was 84...

IG-64
12-20-2003, 08:17 PM
you people are so mad about the denethor planatir thing, but he does talk about it when he was saying stuff like: "The eyes of thw white tower aren't as blind as you think" and "I see more than.." something like that, but he does talk about it.

and about frodo: Fellowship book, the Shadow of the Past, page 42, "As time went on, people began to notice that Frodo also showed signes of 'preservation': outwardly he retained the appearance of a robust and energetic hobbit just out of his tweens. 'Some folk have all the luck,' they said; but it was not until Frodo approached the usually more sober age of fifty that they began to think it queer.", and I believe Elija Wood is "just out of his tweens"

so please do your homework before you decide to put down the movie ;)

P.S. Who is this Eets you speak of? :confused:

Sherack Nhar
12-21-2003, 02:11 AM
Originally posted by darthfergie
no...I think the book did do a better job of Aragorn's arrival. I didn't know he was on those ships in the books...they had all of the people thinking "Oh crap...reinforcements of the army of Mordor...we're screwed...WAIT! HOLY HECK IT'S ARAGORN!!!!!!"

at least that's how I remember it...has been a while... I love you Fergie. You took the words right out of my mouth. You naughty boy.

you people are so mad about the denethor planatir thing, but he does talk about it when he was saying stuff like: "The eyes of thw white tower aren't as blind as you think" and "I see more than.." something like that, but he does talk about it.Actually I thought he was referring to his own talent at perceiving what other people think. It is mentioned many times in the book. But I guess he could be referring to the palantir... either way, we never see Gandalf and the others discover that he was using one.

P.S. Who is this Eets you speak of? *roasts newbie* anyone want a bite? ^_^

Eets
12-21-2003, 05:21 AM
P.S. Who is this Eets you speak of?

What the f.. :indif: *beats IG-## over the head with a flail*

Actually, Eets was very nice about it and respected my opinion. He understood my point of view and I understood his.

No, I just didn't want to start another LOTR argument. :p You're still going to get cluster-beaten.

No reason for Denethor being the way he was in the movie? It was obviously conveyed to be the outcome of the death of his son in the movie. Perhaps in the EE they'll involve the Palantir again but it was clearly started by Boromir's demise in this cut of the film.

Even in the book his depression spiral was started by the death of his son. Add his utter distaste for Gandalf and you have perfect reasoning for the way he acted in his scenes. His crazyness was only ever supposedly having to do with what he saw in the palantir.

Can I get a huzzah and an amen? Thank you.

no...I think the book did do a better job of Aragorn's arrival. I didn't know he was on those ships in the books...they had all of the people thinking "Oh crap...reinforcements of the army of Mordor...we're screwed...WAIT! HOLY HECK IT'S ARAGORN!!!!!!"

Perhaps your judgement of this scene is clouded by your knowledge of the book.

While yes, it didn't take me long to figure out that these weren't reinforcements, I still didn't know it was Aragorn who was commanding the ships at first.

I think you frickin' Tolkien-nazis those of you who read the books and are viewing this movie as anything less than a cinematic milestone need to step back and shove the book up your ass take a look at just how damn good this movie is, Tolkien-esque or not.

darthfergie
12-21-2003, 05:51 AM
The movie was awesome...I loved it...but the impact of that scene was lessened...I havn't read the books in over 5 years...well over...yet that scene is one of them that still stands out in my mind. In the movie...it doesn't really. That's all I was saying. *shrug*

IG-64
12-21-2003, 06:55 AM
Wow, I just got the nicest answer I could possibly get :indif:

Zygomaticus
12-21-2003, 07:50 AM
You guys have to stop being rude to new people. :) You'll only drive them away further solidifying the opinion that you guys are trolls. Who is the Eets, anyway?

So, just came back from watching the movie:

Groovy :D

I can't say I saw anything with disgust, but I guess that was because I went in expecting so much and felt like I got so much. I sat through three and a half hours of movie goodness forgetting about such important things as the fate of my bladder! :eek:

The ghost army. I forget how it was supposed to be in the book, but I frankly care little. Groovy. The way they storm the battlefield and just run over the Oliphaunt was sweet.

Legolas's handling the Oliphaunt. I thought this was somewhat silly. The fact that he makes it look so easy reduces the feeling of accomplishment. But the look on Gimli's face afterward - priceless.

The whole theatre (atleast the women) squealed with joy when Eowen took off her helmet saying, "I'm no man. I'm a woman," and smote the evil Nazgul. I thought that was neat :p Of her, not of the women in the theatre. :indif:

Finally, I seem to have forgotten the orientation of fingers, but didn't Frodo's finger get bitten off? But then when he's writing the book, it seems whole again! Left hand, right hand? :indif:



Final words: good movie. See it. What a start to Winter break!

Fishflesh
12-21-2003, 10:49 AM
It's a nice movie. :D

Boba Rhett
12-21-2003, 01:37 PM
Cool news! Return of the King has just broken the 100 Million dollar mark! In FOUR days!

pbguy1211
12-21-2003, 03:44 PM
to me the timing of Aragorn's arrival was easy to spot. Namely because of it's timing in the book. In the book Gandalf and the Witch-King are about to go head to head and... huh? what's that? horns? oh look! Rohan has come in the nick of time! :p
And you know that Aragorn has the army of the dead following him already (which seemed creepier in the book as did Shelob's Lair (because they're supposed to be PITCH BLACK!) so it was kind of just time for Aragorn to re-appear when he did in the book. Then again that's just me.

My biggest complaint was still the lack of Gandalf-Witch King confrontation.

To a lesser extenet, the botching of Faramir in TTT. The few things they could have done to help explain Denethor's nuttiness.
IE: He's THAT crazy because of his son's death to NOT call for aid by lighting the beacons or sending the red arrow!?
I also didn't like the way they handled Sam in Shelob's Lair. I just wanted to see him squash Gollum. And I could have SWORN I saw a clip of the 2 of them in there at the same time at one point....

Now, something I haven't heard people speak much of yet.
I loved Merry and Pippin in this movie. Moreso Pippin.
Them being wasted and baked when the crew arrive at Isengard in the beginning was hilarious! "The salted pork is particularly tasty!" As Merry puffs some of South Farthings best. Classic!
And Gandalf saying "Of all the inquisitive hobbits, YOU ARE THE WORST!" Ha! Excellent!

Zygomaticus
12-21-2003, 04:59 PM
Pbguy, also notice the exact repeating of the words, "Fool of a Took!" :D

I thought that was pretty neat ;)

pbguy1211
12-21-2003, 06:29 PM
well, TECHNICALLY ;) he meets them before the flooding of Isengard the night before and calls him a "tom-fool of a Took!" but that's nitpicking! :p

and theoden's speech to the Rohirrim before the charge was AWESOME! and Arwen's quoting of the dream culminating with: "the crownless again shall be king" were great touches!

IG-64
12-21-2003, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by pbguy1211
(which seemed creepier in the book as did Shelob's Lair (because they're supposed to be PITCH BLACK!)

they were pitch black to the characters in the movie but not to you because you have the power of movie magic :p now wouldn't it be boring if you couldn't see anything? Remember in moria when they had it black at the start so they could show gandalf's lighting staff and then the rest was perfectly light? movie magic...

edlib
12-22-2003, 01:13 AM
I saw it today. I liked it. (Of course.)

When the movies started I decided to make sure I judged them on thier own merits without concentrating too much on how they differed from the books. Obviously many changes had to be made for the films to work. Something that reads exciting may fall flat on the screen, and anything you show on screen has to be explained somehow, either by talking about it (Boring!!! "Matrix Reloaded" anyone?) or usually by showing it... but that takes screen time to do and makes the movie even longer.

The writing team had an unenviable and almost impossible task in adapting these books into movies, and I think for the most part they did an excellent job. Go back and watch the cartoon version of LOTR again and you will appriciate how well these movies came out. I'm sure they agonized over every change and cut that they made that would be noticed and harped upon by the Tolkien fanatics out there.

But no movie adaption of a book this deep could ever really be 100% true and accurate down to every detail... and trust me, only the most die-hard Tolkien freaks would be able to sit through it if it were.

Very few of the people I know who rave about how amazing these films were have ever read the books. When they ask me if the books were as good I always say "No. They're better! But different."

A slow decent into madness is a very difficult thing to show on screen, especially when you have a limited span of time to show it and are trying to tell several other storylines at the same time and still have to leave room for a world-shattering epic battle scene to play out.

DarthMuffin
12-23-2003, 04:23 PM
Just saw the movie 2 days ago... it's pretty great.


*Point of view of someone who didn't read the books*

And I thought that the battle at the end of TTT was huge... When I saw all the orcs near Minas Tirith, I was like :eek:

The battles were really nice, and Minas was really well done (didn't read the book, but I think it was great).

My two biggest disappointment :
The lack of use of magic. I know, if the wizards don't use magic in the books, they shouldn't in the movies... but I really liked the Saruman/Gandalf duel in FOTR, and I think that Gandalf should have unleashed his so-said powerful magic on all those stupic orcs! Perhaps if we had the Gandalf vs Witch-King duel, there would be more magic, but anyways...

Second, NO SARUMAN??? and why the hell did they take off the scene at the end with Saruman and Wormtongue??

----> In short, I found the movie excellent, but was disappointed because no C.Lee. I'll probably go see it again during the holydays though

Clefo
12-23-2003, 06:56 PM
Saw it last night, very very good. And I'm NOT gonna get anal-retentive about movie-book continuity. (You know who you are) I don't go to the movies to nitpick every detail, I go to the movies to be entertained, and entertained I was. I can't pick out a certain part, it was all good, yo.

IG-64
12-23-2003, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by Darth54
Just saw the movie 2 days ago... it's pretty great.


*Point of view of someone who didn't read the books*

And I thought that the battle at the end of TTT was huge... When I saw all the orcs near Minas Tirith, I was like :eek:

The battles were really nice, and Minas was really well done (didn't read the book, but I think it was great).

My two biggest disappointment :
The lack of use of magic. I know, if the wizards don't use magic in the books, they shouldn't in the movies... but I really liked the Saruman/Gandalf duel in FOTR, and I think that Gandalf should have unleashed his so-said powerful magic on all those stupic orcs! Perhaps if we had the Gandalf vs Witch-King duel, there would be more magic, but anyways...

Second, NO SARUMAN??? and why the hell did they take off the scene at the end with Saruman and Wormtongue??

----> In short, I found the movie excellent, but was disappointed because no C.Lee. I'll probably go see it again during the holydays though

LotR Fact: Actually, they are not really wizards, thats just what they call themselves, they were just powerfull guys made by the gods to stop sauron if he ever came back

Boba Rhett
12-24-2003, 03:30 PM
Lotr fact: There ARE wizards because that's what the powerful guys made by the gods were called by men.

pbguy1211
12-24-2003, 05:45 PM
tell 'em Rhett... Radagast The Brown wouldn't be to happy to hear you say that IG! ;)

Sherack Nhar
12-24-2003, 07:43 PM
Radagast the Brown rocked.

IG-64
12-24-2003, 10:52 PM
bad men hurts us

I loved Radagast the Brown, and Quickbeam, 2 most favorite book characters

Redwing
01-01-2004, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by pbguy1211
krkode:
in TTT:EE they mention that though they changed a lot in TTT, they had BIGGER changes in FOTR. the biggest of all ebing Frodo's age. And i think bilbo lived to be 129 when he went u know where... that was the oldest of any hobbit. so they should age similarly to humans in theory and oh my god... i can't beleieve we're having this discussion...
*hangs self* :p

Actually, having just read the Hobbit (yesterday :D I can read the books now that I've seen RotK! Wheee! Ya, ya, no Hobbit movie yet, but who cares, it's a prequel) I can tell you that some Took lived to be 130 way before Bilbo was born, and 100 is not an uncommon hobitty age to live to. ;)

Not that I'm an expert or anything :p

Since I haven't got to the RotK book (barely finished the first chapter of FotR) yet, all this whining about how it wasn't exactly like in the book is kinda baffling to me. :D

I loved this movie. So, so, pretty...

My favorite parts:

1) Pippin singing when Faramir and co. were riding to their deaths. THAT scene is going to stay with me for a long time. o.o
2) "You bow to no one."
3) Eowyn with girl power! :D

Also...Merry and Pippin came off as far more unique. In Fellowship, they were "indistinguishable backup hobbits". In TTT, well, you knew who they were, but you just didn't care. In RotK, well...they were awesome. :D

Things I could whine about:

1) Just a teensy bit more of the pretty (ironic) green army of the dead...
2) Couldn't the Witch-King have had a bit more to do? I mean, he/it (I'm betting not she) was awesome in his/it's few scenes, but... Also, I loathed Denethor far, far more than I ever could have loathed Sauron, but they weren't fighting the war against HIM! ;)
3) Too many false endings! ^^ I loved them all, but couldn't they have been handled slightly differently? ^_~

A last, very small nitpick: The trolls looked computer animated. The troll in FotR didn't. To me. Anyway. And no one else cares. Anywhere. ^_~









Who the bloody is Radagast the Brown?! I keep hearing jokes about him, and I know he's a wizard, but...what exactly did he do? Did I blink at the wrong moment during Two Towers or something? :xp:

edlib
01-01-2004, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by Redwing
Who the bloody is Radagast the Brown?! I keep hearing jokes about him, and I know he's a wizard, but...what exactly did he do? Did I blink at the wrong moment during Two Towers or something? :xp:

Basically he runs into Gandalf and says, "Hey! Saruman is looking for you, dude!" at which point Gandalf runs off, only to get imprisoned at Orthanc.
They left him out of the movies. I guess they didn't want to introduce yet another character who would only have a few seconds of screen time, just so he could tell Gandalf to get moving.

I suspect there will be more Witch-King in the Extended DVD. In the book he and Gandalf have a cool confrontation at the first gate of Minas Tirith.

Billy Shears
01-01-2004, 04:45 PM
Saw it twice, very good movie. What's keeping it from being one of my all-time favorites/best movie ever/biggest orgasm is that I already knew how it was going to end and wasn't all that concerned about the characters. I'm pretty sure it would have been a lot cooler for me if I never read the books, but that's not how it happened. That, and the fact that I just generally prefer science fiction over fantasy keeps Star Wars over the LOTR movies.....or at least the OT over LOTR. However, I will say that when it comes to the creators, it should be Tolkien>Lucas>Jackson.

Not showing Denethor's palantir kinda pissed me off, but I could have lived with him if it wasn't for his RIDICULOUS BUNGEE JUMP OF SUICIDE when he's supposed to be burned alive on the pyre! This wasn't just a matter of the movie contradicting the book, but it was just the sheer outrageous way they changed it.

I was also disappointed that there was no Gandalf-Witch King confrontation. When the orc commander asks, "What of the white wizard?" and the Witch King replies "I will break him," you kinda get the feeling that they're gonna have a fight, but....er....I guess not.....

The whole thing with Aragorn and the Army of the Dead hopping out of the Corsairs really surprised me, since that scene kind of confused me in the book. When Aragorn appeared in the book, I was like, Oh yay! Aragorn found some ships of his own! But they're still gonna have to watch out for the pirates. :o There was cheering at many parts in the movie, which is something I don't encounter too often, and this was one of the parts that I had to agree with (but I didn't clap).

Overall, cool movie, I just prefer sci-fi and lasers over fantasy.

Edit: I almost forgot, the left out the scene where the Nazgul evaporate. That disappointed me as well. ;)

Eets
01-01-2004, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by Redwing
3) Eowyn with girl power! :D

*Imagines Redwing removing his helmet, with his long, flowing golden locks of hair dancing in the wind, whilst he says in a confident and victorious voice: "I am no man!"*

IG-64
01-01-2004, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by Billy Shears
I almost forgot, the left out the scene where the Nazgul evaporate. That disappointed me as well. ;)


"'Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!'
Then Merry heard of all sounds in that hour the strangest. It seemed that Dernhelm laughed, and the clear voice was like the ring of steel. 'But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord kin. Begone , if you be not deathless! For no living or dark undead, I will smite you if you touch him.'
The winged creature screamed at her, but the Ringwraith made no answer, and was sighlent, as if in sudden doubt. Very amazement for a moment conquered Merry's fear. He opened his eyes and the blackness was lifted from them. There some paces from him sat the great beast, and shadow of despair. A little to the left facing them stood she whom he had called Durnhelm. But the helm of her secrecy had fallen from her, and her bright hair, realesed from it's bounds, gleamed with pale gold upon her shoulders. Her eyes grey as the sea were hard and fell, yet tears were on her cheeck. A sword was in her hand, and she raised her shield against the horror of her enemy's eyes.
Eowyn it was, and Durnhelm also. For into Merry's mind flashed the memory of the face that he saw at the riding from Dunharrow: the face of one that goes seeking death, having no hope . Pity filled his heart and great wonder, and suddenly the slow-kindled courage of his race awoke. He clenced his hand. She should not die, so fair, so desprate! At least she should not die alone, unaided.
The face of their enemy was not turned towards him, but still he hardly dared to move, dreading lest the deadly eyes should fall on him. Slowly, slowly he began to crawl aside; but the Black Captain, in doubt and malice intent upon the woman before him, heeded him no more than a worm in the mud. Suddenly, the great beast beat his hideous wings, and the wind of them was foul. Again it leaped into the air, and then swiftly fell down upod Eowyn, shrieking, striking with beak and claw.
Still she did not blench: maiden of the Rohirrim, child of kings, slender but as a steel-blade, fair yet terrible. A swift stroke she dealt, skilled and deadly. The outstreched neck she clove asunder, and the hewn head fell like a stone. Backward she sprang backward as the huge shape crashed to ruin, vast wings outspread, crumpled on the earth; and with it's fall the shadow passed away. A light fell about her, and her hair shone in the sunrise.
Out of the wreck rose the Black Rider, tall and threatening, towering above her. With a cry of hatred that stung the very ears like venom he let fall his mace. Her shield was shivered in many pieces, and her arm was broken; she stumbled to her knees. He bent over her like a cloud and his eyes glittered; he raised his mace to kill.
But suddenly he too stumbled forward with a cry of bitter pain, and his stroke went aside, driving into the ground. Merry's sword had stabbeed him from behind, shearing through the black mantle, and passing up beneath the hauberk had pierced the sinew behind his mighty knee.
'Eowyn! Eowyn!' cried Merry. Then tottering, struggling up, with her last strength she drove her sword between crown and mantle, as the great shoulders bowed before her. The broke sparkling into many shards. The crown rolled away with a clang. Eowyn fell forward upon her fallen foe. But lo! the mantle and hauberk were empty. Shapeless they lay now on the ground, torn and tumbled; A cry went up into the shuddering air, and faded to a shrill wailing, passing with the wind, a voice bodiless and thin that died, and was swallowed, and was never heard again in that age of this world."

Does THAT "disappoint" you?!

Billy Shears
01-02-2004, 12:14 AM
Quick lesson in English: in "the Nazgul evaporate" Nazgul is plural. If I meant singular, it would have been "the Nazgul evaporates." Just to clear that up. ;)

The thing that I was talking about that was missing was:

"And into the heart of the storm, with a cry that pierced all other sounds, tearing the clouds asunder, the Nazgul came, shooting like flaming bolts, as caught in the fiery ruin of hill and sky they crackled, withered, and went out."

I think they showed one of them getting hit by some of Mount Doom's explosion debris, but that still leaves 7 left. :p

Zygomaticus
01-02-2004, 02:22 AM
Well, I think it would be assumed that they all shrivelled up somewhere somehow...

After all, they have no time to spend on that. They have to show Frodo and Gandalf laughing at each other and the rest of the fellowship :D;)

Sherack Nhar
01-02-2004, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by Redwing
Since I haven't got to the RotK book (barely finished the first chapter of FotR) yet, all this whining about how it wasn't exactly like in the book is kinda baffling to me. :D
What's baffling to me is that you label some of the arguments here as "whining" when you haven't read the books yet, since this is what the argument is about.

My point is simple; the book made me go through a real rollercoaster of emotions, whereas the movies (while still great) did not.

pbguy1211
01-14-2004, 03:26 AM
Originally posted by Billy Shears
I think they showed one of them getting hit by some of Mount Doom's explosion debris, but that still leaves 7 left. :p

I always assumed the got f'd when going towards mount doom... BUT you could assume a couple of things.
1. When the ring was destroyed, they died also.
2. When the ring was destroyed, most of the orcs and creatures dominated by Sauron's spirit basically went nuts ans started killing themselves. Maybe this happened to them as well.
3. How do we know any of the army of the men of the west didn't kill them?

I always assumed it was a combo of 1 and 2.

Sherack Nhar
01-14-2004, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by pbguy1211
I always assumed the got f'd when going towards mount doom... BUT you could assume a couple of things.
1. When the ring was destroyed, they died also.
2. When the ring was destroyed, most of the orcs and creatures dominated by Sauron's spirit basically went nuts ans started killing themselves. Maybe this happened to them as well.
3. How do we know any of the army of the men of the west didn't kill them?

I always assumed it was a combo of 1 and 2. Here's a quote from the Encyclopedia of Arda (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm) regarding the destruction of the One Ring:

"Ultimately, the Ring was destroyed in the place where Sauron had forged it nearly five thousand years earlier. With that, the remaining Rings of Power, including even the Elves' Three Rings, lost the power they had held."

Since it was the seven Rings of men that bound the Nazgul to our world, it can be safely assumed that they were finally freed of the Wraith-world when the One Ring was destroyed...

pbguy1211
01-14-2004, 10:45 PM
I never really understood why the 3 are connected to the 1 if Sauron didn't make the 3. But I'm probably overlooking something from the appendix.

Redwing
01-16-2004, 06:12 AM
Originally posted by Eets
*Imagines Redwing removing his helmet, with his long, flowing golden locks of hair dancing in the wind, whilst he says in a confident and victorious voice: "I am no man!"*

You BITCH. :D


Originally posted by Sherack Nhar
What's baffling to me is that you label some of the arguments here as "whining" when you haven't read the books yet, since this is what the argument is about.

My point is simple; the book made me go through a real rollercoaster of emotions, whereas the movies (while still great) did not.

Well, they ARE whining, whether it's justifiable or not. Notice I was whining too - it's our right! :p ;) I was just commenting on the baffling-ness. Since I don't see how the movie would've been BETTER if those things had been truer to the book.

And for the most part - I haven't found the books to be better than the movies, only just as good. ^.^ I get the feeling I may have derailed off the emotional rollercoaster in some places in the books, because the same scenes already have their place in my emotional memory as they were in the movie. Like Gandalf falling into shadow - I cry every time I see that in the movie, but I didn't feel much when it happened in the book...

The only exception is Sam taking the Ring from "dead" Frodo to carry on by himself after the encounter with Shelob, which I found very emotional in the book but was much less so in the movie (as we didn't even get to see the Ring-taking... ^^;)

Oh, and I do like Faramir better without him being tempted by the Ring. *Shrug* But that's TTT-stuff.

I do know (iirc - hehe) that Gandalf vs Witch King was filmed, and for sure that Aragorn and Gimli vs Nasty Orc Leader was filmed as well. Extended DVD fodder, I 'spect ^^