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Kengo
12-27-2003, 02:08 AM
Part 1 - Corellia
WMV version avaliable (requires Windows Media Player)
http://www.pcgamemods.com/4216/

Jedi Academy V1.20 Avaliable
http://www.pcgamemods.com/3950/
By: Simon "Kengo" Williams and Lasse "Lassev" Vääriskoski
Written by Simon "Kengo" Williams and Niall "CookedHaggis" Henderson

http://blargh.mine.nu/test/182/2.jpg

http://blargh.mine.nu/test/182/5.jpg

Part 2 - A place in the Shade
Work In Progress (See below in thread for screenshots and details)

Casting and characters

Lt. Castle (Corsec)
Voice Actor: Leo Thornton
Castle is a tough, reliable policeman who joined CorSec at 20 and has worked his way up to Lieutenant since. He was born in Coronet and has lived there all his life. Having a little more of an open mind than many of his colleagues, he was transfered to the SJPW division - the Strange or Just Plain Weird division.

Pvt. Alan Dalta (New Republic Army)
Voice actor: Chronocrossed
Dalta was himself born on Corellia, in one of the more remote towns. He left at a young age to join the Republic Army and 'see the galaxy'. Ironically he has now been posted back to Corellia as the token Corellian in the small New Republic force.

Pvt. Luke Harris (New Republic Army)
Voice Actor: Richard "Frances_farmer" White
Harris is just 20, no one is exactly sure why he joined up, but he definately did, hes got a piece of paper that says so. He is a registered communications expert, having learnt 6 dialects, including Wookie, whilst on his homeplanet Coruscant.

Jaden Car'Let (Jedi Order)
Voice Actor: Matthew Pate
A newly passed full Jedi Knight on his first mission. His enthusiasm is tempered by the general lack of respect he seems to get at every turn...

Makso (Mercenary)
Voice Actor: Leo Thornton
A Rodian mercenary hired by CorSec, mainly because he himself has been to the Corperate Sector. Resourceful but less than trustworthy.

Agent Black (New Republic Intelligence)
Voice Actor: Mauri "Darkblade" Majanoja
Agent Black is the agent in charge of the whole operation. Definately a bit spooky, and not the most personable type, he does seem to know what he's doing - but is he holding something bacl from the others?

Cpl. Anders (New Republic Army)
Voice Actor: Leslie Judge
How did he make Corperal is the question on the lips of everyone who meets him. Coming from the icy world of Ralltiir, mainly to get away from the snow, he faces every situation with an insanely cheery disposition and often, dancing.

CorSec receptionist - Wedge
CorSec Chief - Leo Thornton
Collaborator - Steve "Wotno" Peacock
Smuggler: Wes Marrakesh

Business_Eskimo
12-27-2003, 04:07 AM
Excellent scripting and voice acting. (especially Leslie's job on Cpl. Anders IMO :p)

The funniest thing I've seen in a while, except maybe www.homestarrunner.com .

Good work.

GothiX
12-27-2003, 08:41 AM
Makso, he rocks. Besides, he's got Lasse's eyes. *sigh*

Casperhead
12-28-2003, 10:47 PM
I think you need more custom texturing. And better arcutexture.

Cazor
12-29-2003, 06:27 AM
This looks far beyond anything you have made, casper. Try and not be so critical.

Looks very nice to me. Anythign above the quality of the raven maps is definately worth a try. And it's SP... Once i get my PC working i will definately give this a go.

GothiX
12-29-2003, 09:42 AM
Since Map-Review isn't the right place for this, I figured I'd just do it here:

Architecture:
Ooh, niceness! The maps really got a living flow to it, especially the bridge area. Nothing too drastic, but good nontheless. My first impression was "GTA StarWars style!", merely because you managed to "convert" real-life stuff into futuristic thingies. Kudo's.

Also, on a special note: Many credits to Kengo, there was barely any quality difference between his work, and lasse's. Now, I'm going to shut up about the differences between this, and Prison Escape, or he'll kill me. :P

Texturing and lighting:
The theme you set with the architecture was really enhanced by the lighting - especially on the CorSec HQ. I loved the lighting there. Texturing was pretty solid as well, no misalignments, z-fighting, or not-fitting textures anywhere (Even though I have my doubts with the ad in the first scene, but soit.)

Scripting:
Since I couldn't do gameflow, I fiured I'd do the other main part instead. :) Now, the scripting here is truly awesome. I especially liked the camera movement during the last scenes on the bridge maps. Character animations were also put to very good use - though Makso should've been turned 90 degrees, he was hanging in plain air. Of course, due to the extreme oxigen pressure there, anyone could. :P

Customness:
Omigosh.. Lots of custom stuff here! The startup screen, music, scripts (Duh!), and of course, the excellent voice acting! Many kudo's to Wedge here - would he happen to be a receptionist in real life?

Oh, and lasse.. That Lighthouse texture.. Gold. :D

Overall:
Much fun to watch, looking forward to other episodes! Kengo and Lasse: 9/10!

lassev
12-30-2003, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by gothicX
Makso, he rocks. Besides, he's got Lasse's eyes. *sigh*

Ugh... I don't even dare to think what that might mean, GothicX. Still, it's best you keep your distance ;)

I agree with everything else said by GothicX. This was great fun now that I could just watch it from the beginning to the end without thinking "That must be fixed, that doesn't work, that is not good, that looks bizarre, etc..."

Kengo's architecture was great, and surprised me truly positively. I have always known he is able to map spectacular locations, if he just takes the time needed and don't rush forward too fast (he has some strange notion that a map should be released in a time shorter than one year). That's exactly what I think GothicX meant; when I was getting on Kengo's nerves by my effective tarrying, he used the time and made here some of his best architecture.

wedge2211
12-30-2003, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by gothicX
Omigosh.. Lots of custom stuff here! The startup screen, music, scripts (Duh!), and of course, the excellent voice acting! Many kudo's to Wedge here - would he happen to be a receptionist in real life?
No. I'm a college student. I do hold a campus job tutoring other students in the Newtonian physics class (hopefully will extend that to modern physics next semester, and maybe giving campus tours :P). If you think I was *that* good...I'd be happy to do some other roles...hopefully I haven't stuck myself with receptionists forever....

Eldritch
12-30-2003, 07:59 PM
*thinks to himself* I need a receptionist... I wonder if Wedge is available? ;)

I think that it turned out great, such as it is. Definitely your best architecture to date, Kengo. And as usual, Lassev, you're right on point with yours.
I agree with a couple of Gothic's comments, and just have a few of my own to add.

1. Most important one to my mind - while I was watching the cutscene, there were a few places where one person started talking before the other was finished, and the subtitles just flashed too quickly to be read. Most notably in the reception / office scenes.

2. Kengo, your scripting continues to improve, but my biggest comment on the scripting is that there needs to be more variety in the camera angles, especially during long scenes (like the last one in Project Corellia). Mix up the angles and perhaps go for a few more close ups, rather than full / half body shots. Take a look at any recent movie and see how they handle the cameras during dialogue heavy scenes (where nothing else is going on).

3. Ple-ase ki-ill off the g-uy wh-o ta-lks lik-e th-is. ;) He was the only one that made me want to turn it off. Not a commentary on the voice actor, just the character.

Can't wait to see the next installment! Nice work, everyone. :thumbsup:

lassev
12-30-2003, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by Eldritch

1. Most important one to my mind - while I was watching the cutscene, there were a few places where one person started talking before the other was finished, and the subtitles just flashed too quickly to be read. Most notably in the reception / office scenes.


I guess I'm to be blamed for that. However, there was no other choice. In the manuscript people were always interrupting each other, so what can I do but make them interrupt each other? I was experimenting with it really long, to reach a point of compromise, and adjusting them individually so that some more aggressive interruptions would be just like that, but some other might not suffer from a bit longer lag. However, a good interruption must still be abrupt, because otherwise it sounds and looks really bad.

Eldritch
12-30-2003, 09:36 PM
Lassev, I know they're supposed to interrupt, but it's immediate. They are literally reading all of their lines over each other. I can't understand anything they say.

Casper, I don't know why you snuck back onto LF, since you're just going to get banned again once the mods find out, but the architecture doesn't have to look like Coruscant because it's on Corellia, not Coruscant.

Casperhead
12-30-2003, 10:05 PM
I woulden't test me eldritch I happen to know you make mapping a higharchy I'm just giving kengo suggestions and no I pmed one of the mods And they let me back in thank you

Eldritch
12-30-2003, 10:17 PM
"More custom texturing" "better architecture" and "I've seen boxes with better architecture" are not constructive suggestions.

If your intention is truly to be helpful, try making suggestions on how things could be improved, not just saying what needs improvement.

wedge2211
12-30-2003, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by Casperhead
The architecture needs work Pal I have seen boxes with better architecture. No Offence But you map review morons banned me from your site so I'am telling you here the architecture needs to look more like coruscant.

So..."no offence," but you say offensive things. Sheesh. The reason you were banned in the first (and second) place(s) was that you offended people, harassed people, and generally pissed people off. If you can't get it through your head that the general mapping public doesn't want to deal with you...I mean, why do you even bother evading your bans on LF, when you just annoy the same people and get yourself in trouble again? We oughta just start ignoring you, since you're obviously just grabbing for any attention you can get.

Oh, and watch carefully, cause I'm only gonna do this once:

I'm is the contraction for I am.
Hierarchy is the correct spelling of the word, and it's meaning is just an ordering of a group. So I don't even know what you mean about Eldritch turning mapping into a "higharchy." It's a useless thing to say.

Now if you can't say something nice...don't say anything at all.



And...go back up and read my post again, cause I know from experience that you didn't read half to three-quarters of it the first time.

Kengo
12-30-2003, 11:06 PM
Now Casper I'm not going to go to war with you, its just a waste of time. I can tell you've paid no real interest in my work and so your criticising it is hollow and pointless. Everyone else, please don't bother either, it can just be used against you to turn this thread into another flame war. You can't out reason someone who isn't being reasonable, its as simple as that. Despite this, I appreciate your support, it means a lot.

Casper, I know you need help. I'm not saying this as a joke or an insult, you really do, you know it and I know it. I myself suffer from a mildish mental illness called OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) which I have needed a lot of help to live with. I urge you to do something about yourself before its too late, because the only way is down the way you're acting at the moment. I only see your itnernet personna, but I think that tells me enough about you. What you have done in the past goes beyond angst or pretty normal things like that, and borders on illegal and threatening behavoir. I'm sure things are really difficult, but you're not the only one who's ever felt like that. Things can get better, if you help them to. I don't want to constantly battle with you here because it clearly won't help you or me, so give it up. I'm not interested in being your friend, but I don't want to be involved in making things any worse, so I draw a line under it.

Back to normal operations on this thread...

Tito
12-30-2003, 11:30 PM
I thought the architecture in this movie was quite good, and I generally couldn't really tell Lassev's work apart from yours, Kengo (except for the parts where I KNEW precisely who had made what)! I must say, I think your mapping skills have improved greatly with each project you've taken on lately! Please keep up the good work!:)

I enjoyed the movie quite much, except I got a little annoyed at Anders too... I don't mind him talking like that, it was quite funny (especially for a Scandinavian guy, since 90% of the people in Scandinavia actually talks like that :p ) but could he at least talk a LITTLE bit faster?!:D

Oh, and like other people pointed out, we have a wild Rodian who's somehow defying gravity!:p

Other than that, excellent work really... When's Part II coming?:D Actually, stop reading this and get back to work!!!;)

Wedge, I hear they're looking for a receptionist at my mothers work...:p (Seriously though, you did a great job voice acting as that receptionist):)

Kengo
12-31-2003, 01:12 AM
Originally posted by Tito
I thought the architecture in this movie was quite good, and I generally couldn't really tell Lassev's work apart from yours, Kengo

I enjoyed the movie quite much, except I got a little annoyed at Anders too... I don't mind him talking like that, it was quite funny (especially for a Scandinavian guy, since 90% of the people in Scandinavia actually talks like that :p ) but could he at least talk a LITTLE bit faster?!:D

Oh, and like other people pointed out, we have a wild Rodian who's somehow defying gravity!:p

Other than that, excellent work really... When's Part II coming?:D Actually, stop reading this and get back to work!!!;)


A great compliment indeed, thanks :)

Leslie Judge did a great job at the voice I asked him to do, but I think you're right, I asked him to do it too slow, too stop-start, speeding it up a little would help the flow. Anders certainly seems to be a love-hate character, some people say hes their favourite, and a lot of people have said "is he supposed to sound like that?"

I don't know how I managed to miss that Rodian leaning thing, lets call it a deliberate in-joke...

Part II has a draft script, will need to see what Niall Hnderson can come up wit (he did all the funny jokes for Part 1) and then Bingo, will get it to the voice actors early 2004, and start mapping and scripting....

lassev
12-31-2003, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by Eldritch
Lassev, I know they're supposed to interrupt, but it's immediate. They are literally reading all of their lines over each other. I can't understand anything they say.


That's interesting indeed. At some point faulty (early and raw) cinematic master script produced that effect, but the problem was of course removed when I corrected the errors. But clearly the script is not working for you as it should. I thought earlier you just criticized the timing. Trust me, the way the cinematic is intended to run is clear enough that nobody should have big difficulties with it.

As I don't have any idea what might be causing the problem for you, I guess you are in the same boat with Wedge who still don't own the game and must thus wait for the QT or some other independent movie version.


Originally posted by Casperhead
The architecture needs work Pal I have seen boxes with better architecture... I'am telling you here the architecture needs to look more like coruscant.


I don't personally see any reason why our architecture should look anything but convenient, that is, good enough so that it won't hurt your eyes to look at and on the other hand economical enough so that not too much time is spent on something that only is shown for a short while with predefined camera angles. As it is, it already took long enough.

Kengo
12-31-2003, 12:19 PM
There have been a few other mentions of the problem, I have no idea what it is. Some file we have, and you don't is my best guess...that or a certain setting.

The Quicktime version is hopefully on the way, someone offered to help me out with it, so here's hoping. In future the JA version is always likely to come out a few days before (to give JA owners the benefit) before the QT version, seems fair :)

The level is now also avaliable at Massassi!

http://www.massassi.net/levels/files/2902.shtml

wedge2211
12-31-2003, 02:58 PM
Another thought is that if you make it into a real movie format, you can cut together scenes in ways that can't be done in-game, apply transitions, a couple effects, etc, with something as simple as Windows Movie Maker...

Kengo
12-31-2003, 05:04 PM
That's a cool idea Wedge, I happen to be a big fan of Movie Maker and have played around with it a lot in the past. That would give a reason for those who only saw the JA edition to also download this, as well as adding some extra sheen!

GothiX
12-31-2003, 05:10 PM
So we have to wait another month? :p

Kengo
12-31-2003, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by gothicX
So we have to wait another month? :p

I think we'll just release 42 different version of Part 1, over a period of 4 years :)

Business_Eskimo
12-31-2003, 07:59 PM
Sounds fun! :D

Edit: I intended this post to be directly after Kengo's not Casper's.:)

Business_Eskimo
12-31-2003, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by Casperhead
I diden't get banned for harassing other members you dumbass.

Oh really. Why were you banned then?:rolleyes:

Cazor
12-31-2003, 08:28 PM
But you are harassing now. You really don't seem to understand.

Kengo
12-31-2003, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by Casperhead
I got a better idea how about you keep out of my thread and I will keep out of you and you pathetic higharchy's threads okay Because I'd rather be castrated before having anything to do with map review scum as your self.

Firstly, you aren't keeping out of this thread. Secondly, I haven't posted on yours. And third, directing all your anger at the Map-Review staff is pointless, because we aren't the cause of any of your problems. I meant what I said, get some help. Threatening people, as you have done nummerous times, and I mean threatening in the fullest sense (and thats just on these open forums everyone can see, let along the notorious AIM conversations people have posted with you) shows that you are unstable.

Kengo
12-31-2003, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by Casperhead
Heh> I would have nothing against map review if You bastards would have listen to me in the first place I asked you idiots nicly to take my maps of your site did you listen NO!! So you caused this Doush Bag

Ah, so this is what its all about - you picked a fight with me over this? We don't have your maps on our site, we have reviews of your maps on our site. The difference is we don't have anything that you own on our site, we have an opinion on something you created. Now in the UK, and the United States, where me and you come from, there is this thing called Free Speach. It's part of our unalienable rights I believe, in our resident nations. So therefore, as long as what we say isn't actually a lie, a flasehood, then we can say whatever we want. Our reviews told no lies, they had opinions of your maps, opinions that weren't favurable, I remember, you added Wedge, our reviewer on MSN and had a Caps lock all the way attack at him. Threatened him and the site I believe. Really, you DO need help, can't you see that? You think this is rational, what you are doing?

Kengo
12-31-2003, 09:09 PM
Free speech Casper. If you want to take this to court or something, go ahead. I'm surprised you haven't already threatened to do that, I'm sure you have some friends who are High Court Judges, Lawyers and such. Or maybe threatening people who don't do what you want is more your style. Does it work with little kids? Or old ladies?

Originally posted by Casperhead
You know what I got an Idea I will get your thread closed this pathetic thing deserves to be closed anyway You map review idiots got my last thread cloase I might as well have my freinds come in here and get this one closed

{Hijack}

You don't scare anyone Casper, you're a little kid threatening people. None of the Admins are your friends, I don't believe anyone who sees this can think much of you at the moment. I did my best to stop you turning this thread into a flame war, but you managed it anyway. You're upset at our reviews of your maps so you do this? Here's what you said to Wedge on AIM, very "nice":

LC Tusken: Hello Are you there?
*** Auto-response sent to LC Tusken: I'm probably not here.
LC Tusken: TAKE MY MAP OFF THE SITE DO IT NOW!!!
LC Tusken: IM CASPER YOU DID NOT HAVE PERMISSION TO POST MY MAP TAKE IT OFF
LC Tusken: NEYHER DID YOU HAVE PERMISSION TO REVEIW TAKE IT OFF!
LC Tusken: TAKE CORUSCANT STREETS 2 OFF JK2 REVEIW NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You haven't changed have you? Don't you have something better to do than attack Map-Review and it's staff? If you can't see you're just digging yourself a deeper and deeper hole, then you're more delusional than I thought. Seriously, what the hell are you trying to do?

Mercenary
12-31-2003, 09:10 PM
Casper, give it a rest you've gone far enough. Don't be surprised if this time you become completely ostracized by the JO/JA modding community.

wedge2211
12-31-2003, 09:52 PM
Kengo- Ignore him. If you incite him, he'll only get worse. My advice is to simply not address any more comments to him, and just click that nifty little "report to moderator" button.

He's already caused one of your showcases to be closed, get the mods to jump on him early so they don't have to shut this one down, too.

Zappa_0
12-31-2003, 10:22 PM
Isnt it time just let things go? Casper just wants to make things right. Wedge, Kengo and who everelse just leave it at what it is. He is right you all do tend to go overboard on your reviews and see too much negitive things. So try to make a New Years resilution, try to become better people in what you do among the community.


OK... to try to get the thread back on track, I have not yet watch this and I shall download it right now. Ive heard alot about it and people are trying to get me to do what you do. But thats not my thing. I would rather film with great players of JO/JA. And now for a plug for The Jedi's Demise. You can find the trailer HERE (http://www.pcgamemods.com/3633/) . I should be releasing some of the movie in a few weeks. Also after the download is done I will watch it and tell you what I think.

Zappa_0
12-31-2003, 11:03 PM
AH well certainly a nice job. Liked the Mission Impossible thing, it was cool. I was hoping to see alittle action in this, but it still was ok. Scripting would definatly be for me, if it looked alittle better. I think I would get better camra views and it would be alittle more life like. But anyway keep up the nice work, I would most certainly like to see more from you guys.

Business_Eskimo
12-31-2003, 11:40 PM
Map Review moderators:
Casper has just spammed the map review messageboards.

http://www.map-review.com/forums/index.php

wedge2211
01-01-2004, 12:09 AM
It's under control.

Business_Eskimo
01-01-2004, 12:10 AM
Great, thanks. Kengo, ignore the PM I sent you.

Eldritch
01-01-2004, 12:22 AM
Yes, Zappa - I can see he truly wants to make things right.

LF mods - How long do you plan to sit on your butts?

Casperhead
01-01-2004, 12:25 AM
Hahaha the best thing is I diden't spam you this time I will soon once I get a fake email made up It was my freinds this time but the best thing is I'am not telling you who they are MAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Tito
01-01-2004, 01:09 AM
Casper, WHY???

You can stop this now... This is going nowhere... Spamming does WHAT to them? Well, I don't think they're pretty hurt from 50 messages telling them to shut up or something like that... And on the other hand, while they only have to delete a few messages, you get banned from a lot of JA sites and possibly kicked off any MOD teams you're working on (and losing credibility with everyone, basically being thrown out of the community)... It's not worth it man, it's definatly not worth it...:(

idontlikegeorge
01-01-2004, 01:55 AM
Wow, Casper sure showed the "higharchy" and the evil elitist boys over at map-review a thing or two!

:rolleyes:

"Isnt it time just let things go? Casper just wants to make things right. Wedge, Kengo and who everelse just leave it at what it is. He is right you all do tend to go overboard on your reviews and see too much negitive things."

Whatever. Casper is the one with the chip on his shoulder, flaming damn near everyone on even these boards who make any sort of comment or suggestion he doesn't like.

For what reason? Who cares? Roll up a blunt, smoke it, and chill the **** out. Jesus.


Anyway... looking at the non-drama posts in this thread, it seems that all the reviews are from those in the map-review community... so maybe a bit biased? :p So I'll post my thoughts about the little project.

The Good:

I really respect the work in this project... to script a bunch of cameras and actors, and coordinate them all takes alot of planning and work... and the maps themselves aren't too shabby, either.

There are some cute things, like the Mission Impossible theme part... and the story itself seems entertaining and sound, and a bit tongue-in-cheek.

The setting for the scene with Carlet arriving at the CorSec building was nicely done... architecturally, atleast.


The Bad:

Anders' dialogue really got to me. Not the voice, which was one of the clearer voices - and I guess this Anders character is "special" - but after the first few times he spoke, I got sick of the slow way he spoke... it got frustrating having to listen to a three-word phrase take a minute to be spoken.

Also, the Chief's voice sounded far away and faint. Pretty much the only bad voice - I remember "playing" Occupation 1, and I couldn't even complete it because I couldn't stand the horrible quality of the voices - but in Team Corellia, the voices were much much better.

Some of the scenes seem to drag on - not as bad as say, the 2nd & 3rd Matrix movies - but for being a 5 minutes or so movie, there really shouldn't be any points where the viewer will stop and think "ok, blah blah, wrap it up please..."

Of course, speeding up Anders' dialogue could help the problem as well, but it wasn't just the Bridge Street scene that dragged on.

I felt the scene with Carlet walking to the CorSec office to be awfully inane - and (YAY!) we got a great view of the sidewalk! The conversation with the secretary (haha wedge#### is a secretary :p ) also seemed sort of pointless. Perhaps if there was a little more emotion, or quicker comebacks, it would have been better.


Anyway, I realize there aren't easy ways to "fix" these things - I have played with scripting, and took me awhile just to get a single camera to move and pan to where I wanted it! But I would hope, that perhaps in future episodes, there will be a bit more optimizing of the flow of the cutscenes.


Blah blah blah... anyway, I have to go get drunk now. :)

Tito
01-01-2004, 02:50 AM
Originally posted by idontlikegeorge
it seems that all the reviews are from those in the map-review community...

Hey, at least I'm not in the staff (though I do strive to become the Official Forum Maniac or at least Official Forum Regular:D)!:p

But yeah, this thread took a nasty sideturn along the road... Let's just ignore ANYONE who starts flaming again and hope they go away! Yeah, you hear me, you're all a bunch of ****************************************** **** **************** ****** *********!!!:p Okay, like I said, ignore stuff like that!:D



So... Any small spoilers about what Part II might involve?:D

lassev
01-01-2004, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by idontlikegeorge

I felt the scene with Carlet walking to the CorSec office to be awfully inane - and (YAY!) we got a great view of the sidewalk!

Um... You know what, you are absolutely right. I guess I knew that all along, but after I had spent hours and still many hours more mapping the setting, I just didn't have the heart to cut it out. Believe it or not, but I shortened it quite a bit! But I just couldn't cut the whole scene with Car'Let walking into the building out. Kengo would have done that, if he had been a real movie director, and not such a fine fellow as he is. I guess he took pity on me, and didn't say anything, but let it be there (although, just as you said, it is useless and doesn't bring into the movie anything but a glance at some architecture).

Originally posted by idontlikegeorge

Anyway, I realize there aren't easy ways to "fix" these things - I have played with scripting, and took me awhile just to get a single camera to move and pan to where I wanted it! But I would hope, that perhaps in future episodes, there will be a bit more optimizing of the flow of the cutscenes.

Well, as it is quite likely that I'm not mapping or scripting for the next episodes, you just might get what you wished for!

Kengo
01-01-2004, 03:14 PM
I'm with you Tito, the threats are empty, so pay them no heed.

Zappa, I'd like to hear what you think. As for your earlier comment, all I will say is that clearly a load of posts have been deleted from this thread, you can see quite a lot of them in the various quotes.

IDLG - Appreciate the review :) I think you've picked up on the main points to address or look at for Part 2. Leslie Judge did really good with the voice of Anders, but I think in making him leave all those pauses I was overemphasising the fact that Anders is supposed to be a little strange and not completely at home with the language. It is too slow, and thats down to what I asked LJ to try to do (he did what I asked spot on!) - so we'll look at speeding his speech up in part 2.

The chief's voice was a little crackly, so I will talk to the voice actor to try to address that.

It is a little slow in places. I personally liked the slow walk of Car'Lets which although not vital to the story - made this middle section of the story more central and balanced out better with the long bridge street part. I also liked the idea of an atmospheric, long scene with some SW music and a look at the city streets to really promote that SW feeling. Also, Lasse's architecture had far more showoff-ability than mine, it deserved a long viewing time I thought :) As the first part, all of us were a little new to it and pacing is a hard thing to master, we will continue to work on that!

I also had some rather over-long conversations at Bridge Street where a character talks for a long time with no jokes. I will keep the final product in mind more clearly when editing the script for part 2.

GothiX, appreciate your review too. This cool feedback is a big help :)

Tito
01-01-2004, 04:57 PM
I thought the long walk was funny... I looked at it like a deliberate joke, like it's supposed to be dramatic in the beginning, then drags out for a long time...:p

wedge2211
01-01-2004, 09:38 PM
Like the opening spaceship flyby in Space Balls? :cool:

Zappa_0
01-02-2004, 02:29 AM
Originally posted by Zappa_0
AH well certainly a nice job. Liked the Mission Impossible thing, it was cool. I was hoping to see alittle action in this, but it still was ok. Scripting would definatly be for me, if it looked alittle better. I think I would get better camra views and it would be alittle more life like. But anyway keep up the nice work, I would most certainly like to see more from you guys.


Kengo it looks like you over looked my responce!:D

Kengo
01-02-2004, 03:01 PM
Oh yes, so I did Zappa.

The MI bit was one of my favourite parts too, Niall came up with that bit!

There is definately more action in this than anything I scripted before, and Lassev did his usual superb job with the scripting. Hopefully as we learn more we can have more action like you say - that is I think the hardest thing to script, but perhaps the most rewarding too. I was pretty pleased with ther Camera work but again, hopefully we'll improve with practice :)

lassev
01-02-2004, 10:03 PM
Real action, like fighting, might prove out to be quite interesting a challenge. I have never scripted such. Hmm. I think Kengo has, if memory serves. Of course it would be quite easy with with the saber fighting, although the unpredictability might prove out to be a problem considering the placement and usage of cameras (follow command with camera groups sure would help).

However, as Team Corellia (until now I have called this Corellian Incident, and for some bizarre reason Kengo never corrected me :p ) does not contain but one saber user, I think the problem of creating more activity and a higher pace of action will be a bit more difficult. However, it might still work by letting in some randomness by avoiding an exclusive use of behavior_state("cinematic"). Some waypoints and point_of_combats, and there should be some nice action and exchange of bullets.

Kengo sure knows how to use dynamic camera movements, so he can easily increase the tempo just by using surprising angles and aggressive movements. Then throw in some script controlled explosions and smoke, and I think even idontlikegeorge would be forced to agree that the west front is not anymore so quiet...

wedge2211
01-02-2004, 10:59 PM
Can't you just make a few NPCs with appropriate team settings and health values, and then let them go at each other with a few defined waypoints, and then cut camera angles as the battle progresses? I think something similar was done for the Luke/Desann matchup on the Cairn dock.

GothiX
01-03-2004, 08:29 AM
The Luke/Desann battle was scripted for every animation.

lassev
01-03-2004, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by wedge2211
Can't you just make a few NPCs with appropriate team settings and health values, and then let them go at each other with a few defined waypoints, and then cut camera angles as the battle progresses? I think something similar was done for the Luke/Desann matchup on the Cairn dock.

That's basically what I meant. The problem is that the more waypoints you place the better the combat is dynamically, but in the same time it will make it harder to follow any specific NPC (actor) with a camera with any intelligent camera angles.

Although, now that I think about it, if I recall it correctly, you can set triggers to be triggered only by a specific NPC. That would allow you to place triggers along the way from waypoint to waypoint, to be launched only by the NPC you want to follow. Thus, you could trigger scripts to change totally dynamically the cameras so that they always have an intelligent angle to the NPC in question.

It would be complicated, and still you would need some master script to be behind everything, or count enemy deaths or something, to bring the movie back under absolute control at some point. Then you would need to bring the NPCs to locations you know. After that it would be again like an ordinary cinematic.

Kengo
01-03-2004, 12:04 PM
Noooo, just lost a long and detailed post with an accidental key press!

It's an interesting topic, the whole action thing. Severeral ideas come to mind: How about making the JA and QT versions noticably different in some ways. For example, how about actual fight scenes the player can control occuring at certain points. For example a load of Dark Jedi could ambush the team and control then goes to the player as Jaden who gets to fight these enemies off. The option to not have to fight could perhaps be included. This would utilise the interactivity that is possible when building this in a game more perhaps.

As the QT version is essentially recorded ingame footage - we could use various methods to record this for action scenes. We could have AIs go at it as Wedge suggested, and record it until we get a version that looks cinematically about right, and use that. We could also have it in no_clip and just record there, using that view as the camera.

We could have a human player in SP or even several in MP acting out some of the action sequences - as they do in popular shows like RedvsBlue I believe. These could then be recorded and thrown into the places where action takes place.

Scripting saber fights is super complex, I believe, it would take an enormous amount of work. This is why, I think, Raven include so few cool saber fights in JO and JA. Simpler stuff like gunfights might not be so hard.

Part 2 is half suspence driven, creepy wandering and half ship based, small space type comedy. Part 3 is supposed to be scary, more than action packed. Part 4 however could see some more heavy action - not sure exactly what yet :)

Originally posted by lassev
Of course it would be quite easy with with the saber fighting, although the unpredictability might prove out to be a problem considering the placement and usage of cameras (follow command with camera groups sure would help).

However, as Team Corellia (until now I have called this Corellian Incident, and for some bizarre reason Kengo never corrected me :p ) does not contain but one saber user, I think the problem of creating more activity and a higher pace of action will be a bit more difficult.

I think Master_Thomas did quite a good job with the camera follow command for randomised saber battles in his first level. It's an option certainly.

I thought you were being ecentric with the name there :) Jaden is the only saber user on the team, that we know of anyway, I guess the rest are tooled up with some bellow par, badly maintained Republic equipment....

wedge2211
01-03-2004, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by Kengo
For example, how about actual fight scenes the player can control occuring at certain points. For example a load of Dark Jedi could ambush the team and control then goes to the player as Jaden who gets to fight these enemies off.
No. Boo. It's a movie, people watch it as such. Besides, if you give a human control, they are more than likely to do things you don't want them to, that aren't in the script (ie, kill all the GOOD guys, go run off and explore lassev's architecture, etc).

One thing you could do, I suppose, is have the movie fully scripted but let the viewer get spectator control. Let THEM control the camera angles. This is probably only cool for big battle scenes, and you might want to build "playerclip" boxes and teleports to force them to stay in and move between specific areas.

We could also have it in no_clip and just record there, using that view as the camera.

We could have a human player in SP or even several in MP acting out some of the action sequences - as they do in popular shows like RedvsBlue I believe.
Again--no, boo. Your movies being fully scripted is what sets them apart from others out there. And...this is something you can't do in the JA versions, isn't it? :P

Business_Eskimo
01-03-2004, 06:07 PM
I suppose you could make it an .ROQ file, but unless it looks very similar to the scripted sequence, it wouldn't work very well in my opinion.

lassev
01-03-2004, 07:41 PM
I agree with Wedge. Not only does a strict movie format prevent unwanted things to happen, but it also saves some work. With predefined camera angles (at least nearly) you can very well leave many places as facades. If you give player any control, they are, like Wedge said, bound to go exploring places they shouldn't.

And since this is a movie, I almost think that you should release it only in QT format. In the end there's no need to make it playable in game. It will also save the effort of making ROQ files. You can just put it together in your favorite video editing software.

Eldritch
01-03-2004, 07:50 PM
And I'd be more than happy to edit it together with my pro video editing software. ;)

Thrawn42689
01-05-2004, 02:02 AM
I downloaded it and started it, and when the level finished loading it booted me back to the main menu with an "Error Unknown 234523434534" or something of the like.

lassev
01-05-2004, 06:10 AM
Originally posted by Thrawn42689
I downloaded it and started it, and when the level finished loading it booted me back to the main menu with an "Error Unknown 234523434534" or something of the like.

That's peculiar. Kengo's part was not prone to errors. Are you sure your download was not corrupt? Or maybe you have some interfering components in your base folder? It might also be worth the trouble to try both the installation ways Kengo provided.

But one thing is sure: JA seems not to be as user friendly as JO considering the publication of your works. The problems with subtitles, mission descriptions and such is not something a fellow with a normal train of thought may understand easily.

Kengo
01-05-2004, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by Thrawn42689
I downloaded it and started it, and when the level finished loading it booted me back to the main menu with an "Error Unknown 234523434534" or something of the like.

Yeh, I haven't seen or heard of that error for this before :confused: Lasev's suggestions are sound - if you put it in the base folder, perhaps you should sacrifice the subtitles and end credits and put it in a mod folder in the gamedata directory - this will avert any conflicts with other base files, if that is the problem. If not, maybe it is a corrupt download.

Just to explain further how I was thinking of doing the action scenes - for those of you that haven't played Final Fantasy games - when you get into a fight it goes all 3d (depends which one but you get the idea), music starts and the player is placed in control of the characters for the fight. I was thinking of something similar - you go into a fight scene, and are in a highly restricted area (player no go areas make this easy) where your only course of action is to conduct the fight. Allied NPCs can be outside of the no-go area willing you on (thats in keeping with most of their personalities...) or just invulnerable.

As for the recorded sections created within SP or MP and recorded - these would be only for very distinct action scenes. Scripting gives you a lot more control for most actions, camerawork etc, but full on saber fights simply aren't possible with scripting, unless I want to spend months and months on one short fight sequence. So for a few scenes, if well 'acted' by players, it might work out. It's an idea that has a lot of flaws, so I'm not really sure, it needs development definately! It would require full knowledge of recording (good qualty) footage ingame, and a couple of exceptional saberists as well. Luckily, I don't have to worry about these things for some parts to come!

I could maybe, as Eskimo suggested, use ROQ files for these recorded sections in the JA version. I really would like to look at some ROQ stuff in there somewhere, maybe for a fully animated intro and things like that (also maybe ship flybys and such - the kind of thing that would be CGI in a film) . Clu's amazing Colloseum shows just what you can accomplish if you really know how to make ROQ files! :)

shukrallah
01-06-2004, 02:50 PM
sweet, ill check it out tonight when i get home :)

Andy867
01-07-2004, 06:38 PM
Looks nice. I havent checked it out yet, but I might after seeing the screengrabs. Also, I have the registered version of FRAPS so I would be able to make it in AVI format or whatever if someone wants to take it from there.

In other news, I dont think you will have to worry about Casperhead coming back to this threads *cracks knuckles* But definitely keep up the good work:)

lassev
01-07-2004, 07:38 PM
Might as well break the news also around here. The speed problem some people have unfortunately suffered with this movie (with my part of it anyway) are most probably due to the unreliability of DOWAIT("task") and WAIT("task") commands.

If you are keen on the subject, first compare for your own amusement the cinematic scripts of JO and JA. After you have noticed the big difference, you are as far as I was before Kengo decided to go straight to the source. I decided to join the gang and gatecrashed to the levelforge.teamhuh.com.

If you are truly interested about the shortcomings of ICARUS, go there are read the short but very enlightening answers we got from a reliable source.

So, to make the long story short, we well most likely be able to deliver a more universally working movie in a few days...

Eldritch
01-07-2004, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by Andy867
In other news, I dont think you will have to worry about Casperhead coming back to this threads *cracks knuckles* But definitely keep up the good work:)
Thanks for the assistance, Andy. :)

WeedCracker
01-15-2004, 02:52 AM
Originally posted by Eldritch
Thanks for the assistance, Andy. :)
Ah Eldritch! Do you have a problem with people? Or do you have problems yourself? What did Casperhead do to you?

Andy867
01-15-2004, 03:29 AM
Casper, you do know it is against LF.com to make multiple accounts, especially when you have been banned. Consider THIS screenname banned as well...

Kengo
01-15-2004, 10:21 AM
Thanks twice over Andy. What can I say, I guess anytime someone comes in who has 1 post and immediately starts supporting poor old Casper 'who's been so badly treated and never does nothing to hurt nobody' I'll let you know! Casper, will you just stay out of this thread, I have no interest in your opinions and you have no interest in my work, so lets leave it at that.

I've got a new version of Team Corellia: Part 1 up at PCGM, the hope being that it fixes the dialogue speed problem some people had, after Lassev did some extensive work on the scripting. It also fixes the missing model thing, and adds German subtitle, briefing and credit support.

http://www.pcgamemods.com/3842/

I'm very interested to hear if that fixes the dialogue timing problem others had before.

Hekx
01-15-2004, 10:40 AM
Great work guys.
I tried it out and it worked fine for me.
I didn't even have to select the difficulty in SP though, it shot straight into the movie as soon as I hit 'New' :D

DarkLord60
01-15-2004, 08:03 PM
Why can't people get along? Sigh :(

Atlanticmonster
01-15-2004, 08:06 PM
This is a warning to you andy. Go ahead ban this name but your going to have alot of fun banning names cause there will be another one after another. We are going to work this out peacefully or we can do things the hard way I was banned unfairly in the first place I'm not leaving and if I do leave I'm going to make sure this site gets its share of hell. We will talk this out on msn I think you know my address If not your going to keep banning and banning.

Atlanticmonster
01-15-2004, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by WeedCracker
Ah Eldritch! Do you have a problem with people? Or do you have problems yourself? What did Casperhead do to you?
Oh yeah one more thing you don't want me as a enemy.

Andy867
01-15-2004, 08:43 PM
Will this guy EVER learn. Perhaps a Perma-ban will suit him best.

Andy867
01-15-2004, 08:59 PM
Casper, please PM me so we can resolve this issue in a more civilized way.

DarkLord60
01-15-2004, 09:48 PM
I agree sheesh

Kengo
01-15-2004, 10:30 PM
Andy, if you're going to sort this out with Casper outside of this thread (which would be great) then could you please delete all his posts in here? I am sick of all my threads getting hijacked no matter how many times he gets banned, no matter how hard I try to ignore him. Oh, and personally, I don't believe people should get what they want by threatening others and harrasment.

DarkLord, can't you see the wood for the trees man? There are two sides of this, one wants to just have a normal freakin' showcase thread without people slagging them off and the other wants to harrass everyone into doing what they want them to. I can't believe you can possibly go along with what Casper is doing. I guess I shouldn't underestimate the power of denial? He's been banned at least FIVE times now DarkLord, don't tell me you believe they were all really unfair on the poor lil' guy? Man alive - wake up!

Casper
01-16-2004, 04:00 AM
If you are willing to knock some of the crap you wedge2211 and eldritch try to pull with me maybe I can be nicer.

Eldritch
01-16-2004, 05:40 AM
What crap? He seems to make this stuff up as he goes, or imagines it.

Casper
01-16-2004, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by Eldritch
Anakin, I hope you know what you're getting into with Casper. I can't say much to his current behavior as I believe he's been banned from here as well, but you're taking a big risk given his previous actions.

I don't like that kind of stuff Now I would like to work this out.

GothiX
01-16-2004, 01:17 PM
Stop posting here, Casper. Kengo was very clear when he said that the first time.

Kengo
01-16-2004, 01:22 PM
I don't believe LucasForums will let the person they banned at least five times back in just because he threatens to make trouble:

"We are going to work this out peacefully or we can do things the hard way I was banned unfairly in the first place I'm not leaving and if I do leave I'm going to make sure this site gets its share of hell"

You don't get it do you? You can't force someone to patch things up peacefully at gunpoint! Also, an argument that can be patched up has to be a disagreement between two people, not between me and the imaginery person you seem to think you are, who never does nothin' wrong. You see, this is the Casper I see:

You've gone out of your way to ruin two of my showcase threads, you (or your friends, yeh whatever) spammed Map-Review, you've threatened LucasForums and come back multiple times after being banned, you've been banned from PCGM for years after that whole attacking the site thing. You're only at Massassi because they unbanned all the people there, and I'm sure you'll manage to get banned from there AGAIN pretty fast. I'll make the safe guess you either don't visit, or have already been banned from JK2File's comments and forum system. You were thrown off the TMU team for threatening them with theft of their propery, after gaining entry to their team via a false name:

http://forums.massassi.net/html/Forum1/HTML/030568.html
http://forums.massassi.net/html/Forum1/HTML/031241.html

That's aside from harrasing people over IM programs with multiple screen names, a load of posts you handily deleted, and outright lies such as the one about me and Tito, a regular on the MR forums.

People shouldn't let you walk all over them for you to treat them with respect, you should treat people with at least common decency from the start. Anymore threats out of you, and I will carry out one of my own: I will attempt to get your ISP to remove access. I think over the past years you've done quite enough illegal stuff (and even boasted about it on public forums later) for that to be a very real threat. I don't want to have you barging onto one of my threads, or attacking a site I work at/for, or threatening one of my friends ever again. Don't post here anymore.

Casper
01-16-2004, 02:44 PM
No. I was never banned from the jk2files comment system. So your sounding like you don't wan't to work things out. well I apologize for hijacking your thread. For one If you want to say bad things abput me IM me and not in the forums.

GothiX
01-16-2004, 02:50 PM
Now you are saying to use IMs? Oh, the irony..

Casper
01-16-2004, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by gothicX
Now you are saying to use IMs? Oh, the irony..

Do you really wan't to start this. I'm trying to work this out peacefully. at least one person matured.

Casper
01-16-2004, 02:58 PM
Kengo. the only reason I Hijacked your thread is because a few of your freinds have been hijacking mine.

"You showed Thrawn42689 these maps as being Casper. You have the same screenname as Casper. You have the same bad grammar as Casper. And I have released a map a while ago already." ~GothicX

That right there got my WIP closed.
I have a countless number of these logs.

Casper
01-16-2004, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by Kengo
I don't believe LucasForums will let the person they banned at least five times back in just because he threatens to make trouble:

"We are going to work this out peacefully or we can do things the hard way I was banned unfairly in the first place I'm not leaving and if I do leave I'm going to make sure this site gets its share of hell"

You don't get it do you? You can't force someone to patch things up peacefully at gunpoint! Also, an argument that can be patched up has to be a disagreement between two people, not between me and the imaginery person you seem to think you are, who never does nothin' wrong. You see, this is the Casper I see:

You've gone out of your way to ruin two of my showcase threads, you (or your friends, yeh whatever) spammed Map-Review, you've threatened LucasForums and come back multiple times after being banned, you've been banned from PCGM for years after that whole attacking the site thing. You're only at Massassi because they unbanned all the people there, and I'm sure you'll manage to get banned from there AGAIN pretty fast. I'll make the safe guess you either don't visit, or have already been banned from JK2File's comments and forum system. You were thrown off the TMU team for threatening them with theft of their propery, after gaining entry to their team via a false name:

http://forums.massassi.net/html/Forum1/HTML/030568.html
http://forums.massassi.net/html/Forum1/HTML/031241.html

That's aside from harrasing people over IM programs with multiple screen names, a load of posts you handily deleted, and outright lies such as the one about me and Tito, a regular on the MR forums.

People shouldn't let you walk all over them for you to treat them with respect, you should treat people with at least common decency from the start. Anymore threats out of you, and I will carry out one of my own: I will attempt to get your ISP to remove access. I think over the past years you've done quite enough illegal stuff (and even boasted about it on public forums later) for that to be a very real threat. I don't want to have you barging onto one of my threads, or attacking a site I work at/for, or threatening one of my friends ever again. Don't post here anymore.

You don't know what happened with TMU. Besides it's none of your buisness. And know I only reign hell on people that get in my way. Or That mess with me. Some of your freinds have got me annoyed now you have to choices. Work this out peacefully and blow everything off. 2 Keep doing what you are doing. And deal with me And trust me I'am not someone you wan't to be on the bad side of. your choice I suggest you take number 1. I'm not somebody you would like to mess with.

Anakin
01-16-2004, 03:35 PM
I take it last nights conversation between us didnt sink in did it Casper ?:confused:

Casper
01-16-2004, 03:36 PM
It sunk in. But these people just don't wan't to work things out.

Leslie Judge
01-16-2004, 03:37 PM
Look, if you want to work this out peacefully, then let's do it! Don't say a word! Please! If someone annoys you, don't pay attention, don't answer, do nothing! The person will leave you alone.

For the others: if you are tired of Casper which you are for sure, just skip his posts, and for god's sake, don't answer them! Please! Speaking to noone is boring. Even for him.

Probably I'll get some insults now from him (if he doesn't listen to me) but I don't care. It is easy to press that little block button every time he finds out a new name and easy to skip all his posts regardless of their content.

Casper
01-16-2004, 03:38 PM
No I don't skip post. I'm just here to work things out. Shessh.

wedge2211
01-16-2004, 03:41 PM
Y'know...we're not messing with you, it's always you instigating things. If you would stop hijacking Kengo's threads and threatening us with "reigning hell on us" and "having you for an enemy" and such, we wouldn't try to defend ourselves by removing your threats from the community. Simple as that.

But short of him voluntarily ceasing to harass us...yeah, block him, like LJ said. That way he CAN'T do damage to us.

I'm not even going to into the possible outcomes of internet harassment suits, Casper.

Now let's quit this. Andy, if you would work your magic...?

[EDIT: Oh, yeah, Casper, the triple-post claiming that you've matured and then threatening Kengo? Real convincing of an increased maturity level and intentions of peacefully working things out...]

Casper
01-16-2004, 03:46 PM
"You showed Thrawn42689 these maps as being Casper. You have the same screenname as Casper. You have the same bad grammar as Casper. And I have released a map a while ago already." ~GothicX

You guys did it me first That got my wip closed way before I even hijacked it. And what have you done to me. lets see You insult my freinds Zappa included. You bite my head off in every thread. One of your map review members tried to send me a virus. No This will get worked out one way or another.

wedge2211
01-16-2004, 03:48 PM
Um....okay, so we started it by you evading a ban?

Casper
01-16-2004, 03:52 PM
I got banned for no good reason in the first place.

Hekx
01-16-2004, 04:05 PM
I guess I'll try keeping this on topic. :p

Any news on Part II?

And why isn't Wedge's character in the poll?
It has to be rendered void due to that. ;)

Leslie Judge
01-16-2004, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by Casper
No I don't skip post. I'm just here to work things out. Shessh. OK, this is my last time. :)

Why, oh, why? It would be sooo cool if everyone could live near to the other without fighting or seeking revenge? Isn't that easier? Do anybody need to be upset? Do anybody really need to be angry?

This whole thing lasts for months now. If nothing else that is clear that there will be no peace if everyone continues the same behaviour. Change yourselves! I do. I will not read posts from either side which are somehow related to Casper.

It is said.

Back to that Corelian Ale Project! Yeah, Kengo, what about part 2? Come on, man! :D

Kengo
01-16-2004, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by Casper
You don't know what happened with TMU. Besides it's none of your buisness. And know I only reign hell on people that get in my way. Or That mess with me. Some of your freinds have got me annoyed now you have to choices. Work this out peacefully and blow everything off. 2 Keep doing what you are doing. And deal with me And trust me I'am not someone you wan't to be on the bad side of. your choice I suggest you take number 1. I'm not somebody you would like to mess with.

My choice is this: I will not be bullied by you into letting you get away with everything you've done, and still do. There have to be consequences for your actions, you can't just scare people into letting you off the hook. I am happy to 'mess with you' if that is what you want, come and get some tough guy. Pistols at dawn?

I've tried to ignore Casper before LJ, and in the end if you don't give him the attention he wants then he just gets more and more offensive. Still, I'll set him to ignore so I guess it won't matter. One thing I do strongly agree with; there's no point perpetuating this argument, I don't believe anything we say will make Casper change nor do I believe it will make him stay away. As full bans haven't worked either, I see no alternative for LF but to IP ban him if they actually want to stop him coming back over and over, but thats up to them!

lassev
01-16-2004, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Hekx
Any news on Part II?

And why isn't Wedge's character in the poll?
It has to be rendered void due to that. ;)

Wedge's character belongs to the Team Corellia movie, but unfortunately it doesn't belong to the Team Corellia team inside the movie. That team your saw at "Prin-ce's Street", and that team is in the poll. But as Wedge certainly was very reliable, fast and flexible in his voice acting, it would be foolish not to use his acting skills again (even for some other NPCs).

You know, the keyboard tapping noises were included in his original voice files, if you can believe that :p. Wedge is sometimes a bit too creative for the scripter's taste... But it turned out just fine, in my own opinion.

Casper
01-16-2004, 05:13 PM
And did I say anything negative towards you the whole time. Today. Did I? And If you wan't to mess with me do it over msn.

wedge2211
01-16-2004, 07:32 PM
Hehe, I'm looking forward to contributing to other voice parts in future installments (I also have GoldWave, so I can do stormies, robots, etc...)

idontlikegeorge
01-16-2004, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by lassev
Um... You know what, you are absolutely right. I guess I knew that all along, but after I had spent hours and still many hours more mapping the setting, I just didn't have the heart to cut it out. Believe it or not, but I shortened it quite a bit! But I just couldn't cut the whole scene with Car'Let walking into the building out. Kengo would have done that, if he had been a real movie director, and not such a fine fellow as he is. I guess he took pity on me, and didn't say anything, but let it be there (although, just as you said, it is useless and doesn't bring into the movie anything but a glance at some architecture).

Actually, I wouldn't want the scene cut at all... it was one of the better settings, and it was a good opening/introduction scene. I just think a little bit more camera work would have been better.

Like, instead of the camera in front of Carlet, running parallel to the sidewalk, have the camera at some point, move and pan out to a position adjacent to the sidewalk - like across the street, veiwing toward the CorSec building.

Then, have Carlet walk across the view, then pan/move the camera back to a parellel position with the sidewalk, only following Carlet from behind instead of front. I think this would show off more of the great architecture in the map, and make the scene more interesting.

Well, as it is quite likely that I'm not mapping or scripting for the next episodes, you just might get what you wished for!

Actually, I thought your scene was the better, and am sorry to hear it, if that is the case.

The Bridge Street scene, I felt there were many things that could have been fixed... so that is alot harder to be specific on... which is why I specifically pointed out the camera direction of the CorSec building scene... and as far as the scenes being drawn out, that was aimed at both scenes, really.


And, I will restate, that I respect the amount of work involved in this project... it took me good part of a day to get only two cameras working how I wanted them too, and a whole day to get a single dancing girl to dance correctly!

So anyway, if I'm being nitpicky, it's because I see the potential behind the project. :)

lassev
01-16-2004, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by idontlikegeorge
Like, instead of the camera in front of Carlet, running parallel to the sidewalk, have the camera at some point, move and pan out to a position adjacent to the sidewalk - like across the street, veiwing toward the CorSec building.

Then, have Carlet walk across the view, then pan/move the camera back to a parellel position with the sidewalk, only following Carlet from behind instead of front. I think this would show off more of the great architecture in the map, and make the scene more interesting.
Yeah... um... Yeah, let's say that it would have been better that way, and believe me, I would have made it that way, but for one reason. You see, the city kind of didn't exist in all directions, nor were the buildings detailed or textured on all walls. That's the magic of movie setting. It would have been too much work to map so much that I could have used more varied camera angles. Now I used almost all camera angles I could muster without making it apparent that the setting wasn't very large after all.

So, the truth was rather technical and not very artistic. I could do better than that given time and effort! Yes, it was a cinematics setting, not game level setting at all.

Originally posted by idontlikegeorge
So anyway, if I'm being nitpicky, it's because I see the potential behind the project. :)
No problem. I perfectly understand and agree. It's only good to look at things more carefully if you make similar things yourself. This was an example of a compromise between time and quality. That's what I'm always saying (and I'm also saying that only Eldritch can have both: a short time and a high quality...).

Kengo
01-16-2004, 08:53 PM
Aha, I can spot a fellow director wannabe when I see one IdontlikeGeorge :)

I agree with you wholeheartedly, I enjoyed the long intro in Lasse's bit, your suggestions for the camerawork are interesting. Lassev's style is more for static cams and zooms, I tend to go for a lot more camera movement and pans - personal preference is all I think. I also agree that his part was the better overall, he did a great job!

Lassev and me have talked it over and basically Lassev doesn't have the time for a part 2 with work commitments plus other projects, but maybe one day he will co-produce another part with me :) I can probabaly do part 2 on my own, but I will be looking for people to co-create some of the other (more tricky) parts.

It may have taken you a day to get that girl dancing properly, but at least you managed proper dancing! Luckily, Ander's dancing at the beginning is kind of supposed to be utterly rediculous....still....it is pretty terrible!

Anyway, as much as I am pleased with Part 1 I can see lots of room for improvement in terms of pacing and structure of the scripts, and especially in my own scripting and level construction. I really think there is a lot of potential here!

Wedge, we will have to get you in every time somewhere eh? ;)

lassev
01-16-2004, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by Kengo

Wedge, we will have to get you in every time somewhere eh? ;)

Wow, Kengo, that is a crystallization of a magnificent idea! Don't let go of it. It will turn out to be a be a masterful joke that will run the lenght of the entire saga. Slowly people will realise that Wedge is always there, with dozens of different roles, sometimes nothing more than a voice in a radio.

Kengo
01-16-2004, 10:29 PM
Truely he is the Alec Guinness of our generation!

OK, some hints on part 2..... The team go to Ord Mantell, I'm still looking at exactly what that place looks like (pics always gladly recieved). There is also a lot of talking onboard their ship, the Century Fox, where we learn a lot more about Car'Let's training at the Jedi Academy (lets just say things have gotten a little easier since Obi Wan's day). Interesting to see he's currently narrowly ahead on the favourite characters poll, for me he has emerged as perhaps the main character in a way (as close to one as we have anyway). I really love what Matthew Pate did with his voice there, especially impressive if you know of his Antipidian background :)

Did anyone notice Chewie wander past at Bridge Street? I will throw in another such Star Wars cameo in part 2, no prizes for guessing who on the dangerous trading World of Ord Mantell...

Been getting a lot of input on scripts - Ewok Mercenary sent me a really cool plot idea which I am definately going to use, in a slightly adapted form. My co-writter, Niall Henderson, is working on jokes for Parts 2 and 3 at the moment :)

Casper
01-16-2004, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by Casper
And did I say anything negative towards you the whole time. Today. Did I? And If you wan't to mess with me do it over msn.
Well?

Eldritch
01-16-2004, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by lassev
This was an example of a compromise between time and quality. That's what I'm always saying (and I'm also saying that only Eldritch can have both: a short time and a high quality...).
Flattery will get you nowhere. ;)

idontlikegeorge
01-17-2004, 02:43 AM
"This was an example of a compromise between time and quality."

All you had to say. I felt your previous paragraph were poor excuses! :p But this line speaks truth.

Still, I will defend my camera suggestions, by noting, on the contrary to your argument about having a lack of set - I have to disagree.

For one, I never asked for some regional panoramic view of the city. I just feel some extra camera movement would really pay off for that scene.

A more specific suggestion: the camera position above the walk, where you can see the floating swoop bikes on the side near the CorSec building. How about, move and pan the camera from there, to a position on the opposite side of the street, viewing the CorSec building?

This camera would also view Carlet walking, as well. And you would only need 1 extra ref_tag and info_null, and 2 more lines in a script. But it would add more variety.


Watching the whole thing through, with extra scrutiny this time around, I think the main thing I dislike is the lack of transition in the movie. One thing I think would improve on that, is using camera fades:


//Generated by BehavEd

rem ( "fade out" );
camera ( FADE, < 0 0 0 >, 0, < 0 0 0 >, 1, 2000 );
rem ( "fade in" );
camera ( FADE, < 0 0 0 >, 1, < 0 0 0 >, 0, 2000 );

Would be good for ending and opening the maps, and would be good for scene changes in the same map - like between the reception lobby, and the hall to the chief's office; and between the three stooges being lost in the city, to actually arriving at the meeting point. (I find it funny how Castle was bitching at the three grunts for being late, when Makso and Mr. Black haven't even shown up! :p )

Ok, I'm done right now. :)

GothiX
01-17-2004, 09:12 AM
Would've been fun to have the camera start somewhere in a CorSec office on a higher level, then move through an open window to show Carlet coming.

lassev
01-17-2004, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by Eldritch
Flattery will get you nowhere. ;)

The best thing is that I can do it as much as I want, because I'm not even trying to get anywhere!

Originally posted by idontlikegeorge
All you had to say. I felt your previous paragraph were poor excuses! But this line speaks truth.

Still, I will defend my camera suggestions, by noting, on the contrary to your argument about having a lack of set - I have to disagree.

For one, I never asked for some regional panoramic view of the city. I just feel some extra camera movement would really pay off for that scene.

Well, they were partly excuses, I confess, but there was more truth to them than you can possibly know, because you cannot see the map otherwise than through the fixed camera views.

Still, I admit I could have done better camera work. I realised that also when I watched Kengo's parts of the movie (although they had far too few cameras even if the dynamic aspects were often better than mine).

Yeah, but this is one thing I'm going to mess with and study in a little project I'm doing right now. I really have to get used to moving cameras (probably with path_corners if they grant smooth movement. Ref_taqs produce those nasty linear paths with sharp turns. And I don't expect to be able to use roffs...).

What can I say? I'm no master but I'm trying to learn...

Kengo
01-17-2004, 11:14 AM
One tricky thing with say the Bridge-Street bit was that its a very, very long scene with lots of dialogue. I think far longer than you'll usually see a dialogue scene in one place in a film - so I kinda of ran out camera angles and ended repeating them a lot. If you look at a sitcom like Friends or Frasier, they tend to have longer dialogue scenes from time to time and sometimes a fixed cam that just panning a little is good enough. It really depends on the situation. Personally, I still think the hardest thing to do is combine camerawork with lots of action!

I'm pretty sure Lasse's bit has fades or black outs between scenes - I left mine without just because I like that instant transition feel sometimes. I'm sure to try it at times on later partd though.

All these ideas for shots and possible improvements for latter parts can only be good, I am really looking forward to trying some of them out :)

ewok mercenary
01-17-2004, 11:42 AM
Ewok Mercenary sent me a really cool plot idea which I am definately going to use, in a slightly adapted form.

It's Ewok Mercenary For Hire! I just wasn't able to fit the whole thing on here... :p

I'm glad that you like it Si, I could easily come up with a lot more if you like :)

Kengo
01-17-2004, 12:58 PM
You may be for hire, but I want to assure you that you will NOT be getting paid for cool ideas :D

I will have to talk to you about some more plot ideas then, and more jokes in the scripts are never a bad thing.

ewok mercenary
01-17-2004, 01:41 PM
What? No pay? You ungrateful sod... ;)

If you wanna talk to me I'm on MSN, and now that I've got broadband I'll be on it more regularly. Although saying that, I've never seen you online once...

Business_Eskimo
01-17-2004, 11:55 PM
How? Kengo never sleeps!:)

shukrallah
01-18-2004, 12:18 AM
[quote]Watching the whole thing through, with extra scrutiny this time around, I think the main thing I dislike is the lack of transition in the movie. One thing I think would improve on that, is using camera fades:



code:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
//Generated by BehavEd

rem ( "fade out" );
camera ( FADE, < 0 0 0 >, 0, < 0 0 0 >, 1, 2000 );
rem ( "fade in" );
camera ( FADE, < 0 0 0 >, 1, < 0 0 0 >, 0, 2000 );--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[quote]

Yeah, camera fades always look nice, I think you can change the color of the fade also... i dont know why you would want too, but still. :)

Tito
01-18-2004, 06:37 AM
Color is no problem to make with fades (look at the < 0 0 0 > parts), but if anything, I suggest sticking to black... And maybe purple:p... But for now let's just say black...
I don't think there were any fades needed in the movie! Maybe fade-ins at the beginning of each new scene (a scene being a level in this case), and fade-outs at the end of each scene! Other than that, it was perfectly fine to me!:)

lassev
01-18-2004, 09:49 AM
Ha! You infidels of little faith! I checked it just for your pleasure, and indeed I have fades in every place I thought a fade would be in order!

1) I have a fade in in the beginning.

2) I have a fade in the chronological transition when Jaden teleports from the lobby to the corridor.

3) I have a fade out in the end.

Those were the spots I think were justified. The only other occasion might have been when I changed the camera from pointing to Jaden climbing the stairs to Wedge... er... Receptionist and Castle. But that was not a chronological transition, so I thought not to use it there.

EDIT: Well, I admit that a working fade out in the end is only in version 1.10, if you think I'm unjustified in my accusations...

idontlikegeorge
01-18-2004, 07:56 PM
Ok, I did notice the fade in... although it was very faint. Should raise the last float variable (time in m/s).

Yeah, and I did notice that there was a fade between the receptionist and the hallway. I didn't remember last time, because I didn't think of fades until the break between the chief's office, and all of the Bridge street scene.

Yeah, and looking at the cormaster script, I do see the ending fade out... except in the version I have, the variables are the wrong way (so it's set to fade in, instead of out).


I was wondering, could I tweek with some of the script files you guys made, to see if I can try any tricks?

Of course I wouldn't release anything, or even ask any of you to do any successful changes... just a learning experience type of thing. :)

Kengo
01-18-2004, 08:17 PM
We'll have to see what Lasse says for his bits of script. For my (rather less advanced) scripts, you can most certainly play around with them all you want, as long as I don't see 'Corellian Squad' or somesuch cutscene film on the net :)

I'm afraid we won't actually be updating Part 1 any more, unless there turns out to be some ultra-massive fault with it. I'm a perfectionist right up to when I finish something, at which point I stop caring. With scripting like this, I'm sure there are bits that could be tweaked, but I can't see the point of releasing such minor tweaks for something of this format :)

lassev
01-19-2004, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by idontlikegeorge
Yeah, and looking at the cormaster script, I do see the ending fade out... except in the version I have, the variables are the wrong way (so it's set to fade in, instead of out).

Well, I don't remember the first version so well, except that the level_change ended the level before the fade took action, so it's no problem, but the new one has an end fade like this, which is, of course, correct:

camera ( /*@CAMERA_COMMANDS*/ FADE, < 0.000 0.000 0.000 >, 0.000, < 0.000 0.000 0.000 >, 1.000, 2000 );


Originally posted by idontlikegeorge
I was wondering, could I tweek with some of the script files you guys made, to see if I can try any tricks?

Of course I wouldn't release anything, or even ask any of you to do any successful changes... just a learning experience type of thing.
Sure you can :). No need to even ask. As long as they stay on your HD, you can do with them what ever you desire. Examples are the best way to learn, except for examples with explanations, that is.

However, I should give you here a word of warning. Rather than use my scripts as examples, use the Raven scripts. As you have seen, there have been unforeseen problems with my scripts, and in the future I will drastically change my scripting conventions to resemble those of Raven. I can only suggest you do the same.

Originally posted by Kengo
I'm afraid we won't actually be updating Part 1 any more, unless there turns out to be some ultra-massive fault with it. I'm a perfectionist right up to when I finish something, at which point I stop caring. With scripting like this, I'm sure there are bits that could be tweaked, but I can't see the point of releasing such minor tweaks for something of this format :)

Well, the CorSec cinematic master script for version 1.10 is all screwed up. Anybody can see that the cameras point this way and that, but hardly ever to the right direction. This is originally due to an inexplicable corruption that occured while the script was being transferred from me to Kengo. Kengo tried to save the script, which unfortunately did not succeed because of my very bad camera (ref_taq) naming conventions (and who knows if the fact that there was so much Finnish in the script caused Kengo to swerve).

Kengo
01-22-2004, 09:27 PM
Sorry for the problems with v1.10, they were really of my doing, I sadly caused some errors in Lasse's script when I transfered it over. However, we got it all fixed with the definative v1.20 release of Part 1!

http://www.pcgamemods.com/3950/

I am now looking at Part 2, which will partly be set on Ord Mantell. Any pics/data people can find me on it would be much appreciated!

Kengo
02-09-2004, 09:04 PM
A WMV version of Part 1 by Andy867 is now avaliable for all you non-JA owning people here:

http://www.pcgamemods.com/4216/

Requires Windows Media Player to run.