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Asmodeus
01-08-2004, 02:47 AM
What about altering what the saber hilts look like? Like make it so you could have malak's saber but be able to upgrade it. I don't know it's just a segestion.

eidospsogos
01-08-2004, 02:50 AM
not a bad suggestion. how possible it would be i don't know. but i thought it was funny that your trainer took the time to tell you how individual and unique each saber was, and yet they all look EXACTLY the same. :)

Hyarmendacil
01-23-2004, 09:09 PM
Considering the popularity of saber hilt mods in JK II & JKA, I though this thread would continue. Is there no interest in this topic or has it just been continued in another thread?

Darth Stryke
01-23-2004, 09:19 PM
I am working on such a mod, but while it IS possible i think, I require help but as of this point, nobody has responded to my thread to give help-but I AM trying.

Kitty Kitty
01-23-2004, 09:37 PM
The only big problem is that at this point, we can't make any new models.

What this does is severely limits our choices. There's maybe half a dozen or so hilt models in the game tops. Short, normal, double, Malak.. maybe one or two more but I'd have to do a lot of digging to find out.

Aaanyway.. in other words, you could in theory swap these around a bit.. though it's not something that would be exactly easy, since various animation sets go with certain types of sabrer. What you COULD do fairly easily would be to reskin the existing models. It won't change them a whole lot obviously, but it'd be something.. and at least then it'd look different.

Of course, the problem you'll run into there is, if you reskin say the standard saber hilt, every standard saber in the game will still look like that. The only way around that which I can think of right now would be to copy the normal saber's files. Templates, scripts, animations, etc etc.. there's actually quite a lot to it.

Then you'd have to add entries in every file that's applicable to create a NEW saber, pointing it to the coppied files which you give a slightly different name, but change them all the same way (like adding an 01 to the end of them all or something). Then you could apply whatever new skin you made to ONLY that saber, and not the normal one by giving it a unique name as well and setting up all the templates and 2da's properly.

THEN of course, the only way to get it in game would be to edit/create a script somewhere (that isn't compiled in a module) which places loot/items somewhere that you can pick it up, OR to use cheat codes to "giveitem" it to yourself.

LoL... basically, it's a LOT of work for very little effect.. at least until we figure out how the models work so they can be changed. =/

-Kitty

Hyarmendacil
01-24-2004, 03:58 AM
I see. Is this one of the reasons we still dont have wearable darth revans mask and hood?(besides the holowan cloak revan model)

Kitty Kitty
01-24-2004, 04:20 AM
Ayep.

Model changes are gonna be dicey at best till someone figures out the model format. If they crack that, we'll be able to do just about anything we want on these lines.

-Kitty

Darth Stryke
01-24-2004, 04:33 AM
One thing ive learned by watching modders in the Jedi Knight series-its not a matter of if they can crack the model, its only a matter of when-also, a great example, adding new models (creatures) to Diablo 2-if it can be done in D2, it can be done almost anywhere...trust me on that.

Kitty Kitty
01-24-2004, 04:42 AM
One thing you forget...

Those are multi-player games. KotOR is single player.. I know that yes, eventually someone will certainly figure out the models. But.. we need someone to figure out the models, and then write up a few import/export filters for like 3ds and Milkshape and whatnot.. and all this has to happen while there's community interest, which is always dicey with a story-based RPG single player game.

It's impossible to tell how long there will be enough support and interest in the game since you can only play it so many times before you've literally done everything there is to do in the game 100 times or more.

Don't get me wrong.. I'm still hoping it happens.. Just not as guaranteed as we might like to think in a situation like this.. especially with as hard as they've made a lot of the aspects of modding in this situation. *grumble*

-Kitty

T7nowhere
01-24-2004, 05:23 AM
To make Revens mask couldn't you just swap the mask texture for say the one on the sithmask or the vacuum mask. Ofcourse you would have to cut the Reven mask texture from Reven's texture.

The only way I can see to keep this community alive is to Make new moduals, but the that is a whole larger mess. :)

Hyarmendacil
01-24-2004, 05:33 AM
Yeah, its really too bad. I could easily see modding communitys as large as NWVault etc. springing up if moddability were supported and integrated as it has been for NWN, JK II, JKA and others. Not to mention the longevity added.

Orbitšl
01-24-2004, 06:01 AM
Just curious how the reskinning is going? Or if its going. hehe

Darth Stryke
01-24-2004, 05:55 PM
Well, what kitty said is true, although if one takes a look at morrowind, thats SP only and there is plenty of support-but also the company themselves made mod tools come WITH the game and basically told us how to change everything. First thing I want to do is check out items like the Sith Lightsaber and malak's lightsaber-since they are separate items, I may be able to change the skin on them without changing others. I would also like it so one could edit them to be upgradable like the rest of the sabers.

Hyarmendacil
01-24-2004, 06:25 PM
I think you could make Malak's saber, sith saber etc. upgradable if you copy the PropertiesList subtree from a normal saber to that of malak's. The only problem is the GFFEditor wont let you copy subtrees from one .uti to another. I dont know if I like the idea of copying all those item properties over manually. Does that sound plausible, and is there a GFFEditor out there that will let you copy trees from file to file?

eidospsogos
01-24-2004, 07:55 PM
i noticed this last night myself. but it's not really that difficult to get around. just keep the .uti you want to copy a property from open as a reference. then in the item you are wanting to edit, add a new sub-tree the usual way. then simply copy a sub-tree from above the new one. you'll then have an exact duplicate of an entry from above.

simply go back to the .uti that had the property you wanted, and replace all the numerical values in your new sub-tree to match those of the sub-tree that contains the property you want. yeah it takes a little longer, but it's really not all that difficult or scary.

Hyarmendacil
01-24-2004, 08:02 PM
I eventually tried this with malak's but I still cant upgrade it. Theres other variable elsewhere getting in the way.

Darth Stryke
01-24-2004, 09:06 PM
I figured out HOW to make Malak's saber *somewhat* upgradable. its in this thread, but please note-you CANNOT change the main "middle" crystal, and therefore it has to be red. But on the upside, you get the long saber and you can make it stronger. Thread Link Below


http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=121845

tuskenguy
01-24-2004, 11:57 PM
bol, you said something about modding the jedi knight series? those games are a piece of cake to mod because they were ment to be modded, without looking at any tutorials I found models, sounds, shaders etc...

eidospsogos
01-25-2004, 12:21 AM
no, the jedi knight series or any other 3d FPS game is not MEANT to be modded. nowhere on the box or in the games advertising does it state new moddable game.

HOWEVER, they are easier to mod, because when the comapny that released the game saw how big a following their game was gathering in the mod community, not only did they not discourage the modding of the game by BANNING the discussion of mods in their forums, but they released tools to make it easier to mod the game. like a model viewer that let you align your skins, a map editor, etc.

but when the game was conceived it was not MEANT to be modded. it was simply constructed in a different way than this game. as in my opinion alot of KotOR was designed specifically to be difficult to access, and even more difficult to alter.

even if this is not the case, the reason mods for JK are so common is because modding the game was not a banned topic by raven, while over at bioware, see if it takes more than two minutes for a mod topic to be locked down. though it was not OFFICIALLY supported, and nor was it a planned feature, it was not discouraged, and therefore people were able to figure things out more quickly. (not to mention alot less goes into a FPS than goes into a game of this scale)

Hyarmendacil
01-25-2004, 01:12 AM
We should go start threads at bioware and start talking about all were learning.......

Darth Stryke
01-25-2004, 02:06 AM
More companies need to take a look at Raven Software (JK 2 and JA) and release modding tools for their popular games. Although, Morrowind is probably the PERFECT example of this-the modding tools they actually used to make the game were included with it and it is the ultimate modding experience. Bethsoft is awesome when it comes to their games and mods.

Stator
01-25-2004, 04:59 AM
There is one small fact that people seem to be overlooking here. The jedi games by raven use a modified version of the quake engine. This engine has been modified over and over by the community. There is plenty of knowledge on how to make modifications to this engine. Just take a look at half life for example. Even if raven had not published tools, this game would still be modified relatively easy. Just give it some time and kotor will be highly modifiable. That is as long as there is interest and a thriving community for it.

Stator

Hyarmendacil
01-25-2004, 05:11 AM
And KotOR shares at least 45% of its base components with NWN, a game that was released with a toolset. Half-life was made on the quake 2 engine, JK II & JkA are on quake 3.

eidospsogos
01-25-2004, 05:12 AM
there are some large differences between the q3a engine as it was originally used in arena, and the version of it used in JO and JA. first of all dealing with skeletal info. and much more model info had to be accounted for since you didn't have to worry about caps in a game like q3a as you weren't dismembering someone with a blade of energy. these are just two of the differences. and there are practically no similarities between half-life and the JK series. at least not in the structures and formats things are saved in. and that is why tools such as those released by raven will always make things easier. they come with a nice little note letting you know what changes have been made to the engine since the last installment and how that would affect your modding. there will always be changes made in game engines from title to title (by a GOOD company), even when using existing game engines. and thus tools released to view the NEW models using a NEW bone structure makes it easier for people to work with editing things. i am not saying it could not have been done without them, i am just saying for both versions of the JK series they handled as of late they released a toolkit. and to me that just says they actually care about the consumer and what they are interested in.

Hyarmendacil
01-25-2004, 05:22 AM
Yeah, what he said.

Stone-D
01-26-2004, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by Kitty Kitty
The only big problem is that at this point, we can't make any new models.

I assume by that comment that bio are using a different format from NWN? Damn.

Stator
01-26-2004, 05:11 PM
I think that you are missing the jist of what I was saying eidospsogos.

The original quake engine has been thoroughly dissected by the community. Quake 2, quake 3, half life, ja, jo, etc have all upgraded, modified, enhanced, etc. this base engine in one way or another. The community doesn't have to learn the base engine. They only need to understand the changes and how they are implemented. This makes the time needed to mod these games substantially shorter than it could have. The tools and support by companies such as valve and raven have greatly added to this also.

The nwn engine has support but the level of knowledge about it isn't anywhere close to the level of the quake based games. Now we are trying to mod the kotor engine but we still don't have the level of knowledge of the nwn engine as we do the quake engine. We don't have any support for modding the kotor engine and that slows things down.

Why we don't have any kotor support is still a true mystery. LA didn't have any probs with the modding of jo or ja. They didn't tell raven that no mods would be allowed. They didn't even ban modding of the original dark forces game. Why would they be so adamant as to not allow modding of kotor? I don't know who is truly behind this but it is slowing things down. If we had the level of knowledge concerning the nwn engine as the quake modders do for quake, I am positive that modding kotor would be a lot faster.

Stator

Darth Stryke
01-26-2004, 06:48 PM
I apologize for saying this in advance, but Bioware's stance on this really sucks. THis is the FIRST game LA has not allowed to be modded, according to Bio. Well, I e-mailed some people and as far as I have found out, LA never put a restriction on modding KOTOR. These very forums seem to support that. I simply do not believe Bioware due to the fact that everything against modding came from them, not LA.

Stator
01-26-2004, 08:01 PM
If Bioware is truly the force behind the no modding attitude, then I have a very simplistic theory as to why.

NWN is based on D&D. D&D is a very popular franchise but it is also limited. It's basically popular with the role players and mainly the pnp crowd.

Now look at Star Wars. It is universally popular around the world. The number of Star Wars fans blows D&D out of the water.

Now imagine KotOR being released with a toolset and a muliplayer component exactly like NWN. Which program do you think would end up in the bargain bin first?

I like both games and have the desire to play and mod both games. From a business standpoint, KotOR would simply kill NWN if it shipped with the same components as NWN did. Right now, NWN is the Bioware flagship game. If you owned Bioware, would you release a product that would kill the sales of your flagship product? Think about it.

Stator

Hyarmendacil
01-27-2004, 05:28 AM
Originally posted by Stator
If Bioware is truly the force behind the no modding attitude, then I have a very simplistic theory as to why.

NWN is based on D&D. D&D is a very popular franchise but it is also limited. It's basically popular with the role players and mainly the pnp crowd.

Now look at Star Wars. It is universally popular around the world. The number of Star Wars fans blows D&D out of the water.

Now imagine KotOR being released with a toolset and a muliplayer component exactly like NWN. Which program do you think would end up in the bargain bin first?

I like both games and have the desire to play and mod both games. From a business standpoint, KotOR would simply kill NWN if it shipped with the same components as NWN did. Right now, NWN is the Bioware flagship game. If you owned Bioware, would you release a product that would kill the sales of your flagship product? Think about it.

Stator

Yes.