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View Full Version : History Questions about Star Wars Universe (not game related)


Arianna
01-20-2004, 10:13 PM
I am 16 years old and have recently discovered the Star Wars universe. I have seen all 5 movies countless times and have most of the games. I have to admit, I'm sort of obsessed with it, but in a good way (I think). *laugh*. I have a few questions about some things and was wondering if someone more experienced with the storys can help me.

- Is there a web site some where that I can read more about the history of the Republic, the Sith empire, and the Jedi. I am interested in the history of all 3 dating back to even before the movies and how the Dark Jedi first appeared, etc. I am particularly interested in the Sith.

- Does any one know why the Sith empire wan't mentioned more in the first releases (A New Hope through ROTJ). The Galatic Empire is mentioned, but nothing about the Sith.

- If I understand the Sith chain of command, then Darth Vadar was never the Dark Lord of the Sith. Since there's always a master and an apprentice, then Emperor Palpatine is/was the true lord of the Sith and Vadar his apprentice, correct?

- Lastly, in Episode 1 and II of the movies, Palpatine becomes supreme chancellor of the Republic senate and is granted emergency dictatorship powers. How can the lord of the sith rise to this title within the Republic and a) the Jedi Coucil did not sense who he was and b) the Republic still survive despite the Sith being in charge.

Contrary to what you might think, I DO get out and I do have other interests besides star wars, but this is what I'm into at the moment and I would like to read more about it outside of the movies. Thanks in advance to those who understand and help me such for the answers I am seeking.

Kaffe
01-20-2004, 10:43 PM
Some sites (there are more, just do a search or two...):
http://www.starwars.com/databank
http://www.theforce.net/

And most other sites as well that is about Star Wars. Much of the history was acctually written in form of Fan Creations and book-based RPGs. George Lucas got a lot of help in writing the Star Wars universe in the end. There are also some books, the Star Wars Encyclopedia might be worth purchasing if you're really into it. Not that I'm familiar with the book, but it might give you something at least.

And regarding your questions...

First one I don't really know whether it's really been written or made official. There are rumours and speculations. But this is too ancient history. The Stories of Exar Kun are quite interresting, and is nicely done by Dark Horse Comics (http://www.darkhorse.com).


- The sith empire wasn't mentioned in the first releases because Lucas hadn't made it up by then. He got the idea later. Sad, but true he did "rewrite" the prequels to give the sequels depth. Unfortunately in this case, the effect isn't the same when the prequels comes 20 years after the sequels...

- The sith command is, and will be like that from now on I suppose. And yes. In that case Vader was the apprentice, and Palpatine the Master. Darth however is a title, given to the Lord of the Sith. Vader was Lord of the Sith, but his master was Palpatine.

But, there is also mentioned in the surrounding fan stories and comics that the light side follows the tradition of Master and Student. While the Dark Side often disrespects this tradition and often teaches many students. Kyle Katarn for instance (in the comics and in the games) fought Jerek and his minions, all of which were Dark Jedis tought by Vader and Palpatine. There were seven of these in fact. So the Sith tradition either died with Vader and Palpatine. Or, Lucas made up things of his own about this.

- I think they mentioned it somewhere that the Dark Side is very deceptive and can cloud everyones mind. Palpatine is strong with the Dark Side, and he is very deceptive. That's why he manages to stay hidden, by hiding his powers.

Also, most of them know Palpatine as a politician. They beleive him to be sneaky and deceptive as it is. That's why his taint of the dark side might only pass as common distrust. A feeling a Jedi would hardly admit to.

Arianna
01-21-2004, 04:25 AM
Awesome. Thanks for the reply and the links. Last question though; if the Dark Lord of the Sith is on control of the Republic Senate, it seems lke he would have no trouble crushing it (the Republic) or using it for his own means, no matter what the Jedi do. I'm havng trouble understanding *the logic* behind why he fails. I understand how the story unfolds as to why he fails, but if some one where actually smart enough to fool the great Jedi masters to get to that position, it seems like he would also be smart enough and have the power to defeat them. Oh well, i guess some just things yu just have to use your imagination for.

Kaffe
01-22-2004, 09:42 PM
He doesn't really fail, does he? Or what do you mean?

As the story seems unfold now, the Clone Wars have begun. With this grand clone army (apparently the beginning of the Imperial armies, after the Republics fall, the Empire tries to revive their army with cloning apparatus, long story) he later on decides to conquer the universe. This story has yet to be told and all will hopefully be answered in Episode 3.

What it all comes down to basicly is that Anakin turns against Obi-Wan and strikes at him in anger. Obi-Wan seeks refuge because of his failure and Anakin is left, presumed dead. In fact he is severly wounded and several parts are replaced with cybernetics. After this he joins Palpatine at his side and together they begin exterminating the jedi. Only handful survives, such as Yoda and Obi-Wan (and a few others, mentioned in different side stories).

The real chain of events here is not yet told, but how it will be told is now up to mr. Lucas.

A small hilarious side-note here is that Obi-Wan is single-handedly the guy who defeats Vader. Or at least, he never looses a fight to him. He defeats him when he's still Anakin. He throws the fight at the Death Star. And he later on guides Luke to the destruction of the Death Star. Quite impressive for a dead guy. Of course in episode 2 he does "loose" a fight, but not nearly as serious as Anakin...

-NGE-
01-23-2004, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by Arianna
- Is there a web site some where that I can read more about the history of the Republic, the Sith empire, and the Jedi. I am interested in the history of all 3 dating back to even before the movies and how the Dark Jedi first appeared, etc. I am particularly interested in the Sith.

there is the following site:
http://www.starwarz.com/timeline/

its done by a guy who has probably the most extensive star wars timeline on the entire internet... lots and lots of history in there... you should download it...

- Does any one know why the Sith empire wan't mentioned more in the first releases (A New Hope through ROTJ). The Galatic Empire is mentioned, but nothing about the Sith.

because by the time the galactic empire is founded, it's already been a thousand years since the rule of two was first established. The Sith realised that if there were too many of them, it would not be good for the Sith as a whole because all are power hungry and eager to strike at their masters. You see this especially in KotOR. All Sith seem to think this betters them as a whole but it eventually leads to their near extinction. The Sith in the movies aren't particularly proud of this... plus there is no reason for the movies to mention anything about a would-be empire some rough four millenia ago...

- If I understand the Sith chain of command, then Darth Vadar was never the Dark Lord of the Sith. Since there's always a master and an apprentice, then Emperor Palpatine is/was the true lord of the Sith and Vadar his apprentice, correct?
Yeah correct, though both carry the title Dark Lord of the Sith. Palpatine has always been the shady figure manipulating things in the background, while Vader is his PR man. So Vader both carry the title otherwise it would appear that there are no Sith at all...

- Lastly, in Episode 1 and II of the movies, Palpatine becomes supreme chancellor of the Republic senate and is granted emergency dictatorship powers. How can the lord of the sith rise to this title within the Republic and a) the Jedi Coucil did not sense who he was and b) the Republic still survive despite the Sith being in charge.

Ok well this is a tricky part. Basically Palpatine has ever been the Dark Lord of the Sith and he realised that as long as the rule of two was in place, he could not destroy the republic through force. So he started out as a senator, and then when he engineered the Naboo crisis worked Valorum out of his way, he became supreme chancellor himself. When Maul died, he had to take on a new apprentice to engineer a new war for him. Dooku fitted. Dooku recruited Jango Fett to be the template for a clone army of the republic, and then went and became friends with the geonosians and the big banking clans and trade federations of the galaxy. Especially the Trade Federation, who were displeased with their defeat at Naboo ten years ago, were eager to overthrow the republic, and so Dooku promised them he would aid them.

Little did they know that they were just instruments in Sidious' (palpatine) and Dooku's plot to overthrow the republic. And then the demise began as our snivelling fool Jar Jar Binks granted Palpatine "immediate emergency powers" to create an army for the republic... an army which had already been there for a couple of years...

The reason the Jedi Council did not sense Sidious was because of what Yoda said: "the dark side clouds everything." And it does. Not only on a personal level. Think about what exactly the statements means, though. If you are blinded by hate or anger, then the dark side clouds your vision and judgement. But also does it cloud the real purposes behind Palpatine's actions, since he was after the master manipulator. But, don't think Yoda doesn't know anything at all. Remember the look he gave Palpatine at the beginning of AOTC when Palpatine suggested for Padmé to be protected by Anakin and Obi-Wan.

So how can the republic survive with the Sith in charge? It can't. It won't. It will eventually fall and turn into the Galactic Empire...

Kaffe
01-23-2004, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by -NGE-
because by the time the galactic empire is founded, it's already been a thousand years since the rule of two was first established. The Sith realised that if there were too many of them, it would not be good for the Sith as a whole because all are power hungry and eager to strike at their masters. You see this especially in KotOR. All Sith seem to think this betters them as a whole but it eventually leads to their near extinction. The Sith in the movies aren't particularly proud of this... plus there is no reason for the movies to mention anything about a would-be empire some rough four millenia ago...

Well, the movies doesn't mention it either, because the story wasn't written at that time. Lucas never had a great masterplan when writing the movies. The Sith didn't really emerge until the ROTJ; because it wasn't written in.

If you read facts, Episode 5 and 6 was co-written with other authors. And well, Episode 4 was for a fairly long time nothing else than a giant sandbox. When they hadn't created anything at all, the movie company said to them: Make a damn movie, or get out. And at that time they started hiring actors and allegedly Lucas finished his story for Episode 1.

Drakron
01-23-2004, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by Arianna

- Is there a web site some where that I can read more about the history of the Republic, the Sith empire, and the Jedi. I am interested in the history of all 3 dating back to even before the movies and how the Dark Jedi first appeared, etc. I am particularly interested in the Sith.


Well some people already post links.


- Does any one know why the Sith empire wan't mentioned more in the first releases (A New Hope through ROTJ). The Galatic Empire is mentioned, but nothing about the Sith.


Simple, its did not existed when the movies were made.

Tales of the Jedi comics created the Sith Empire.

Also Lucas was throwing a lot of concepts in the OT and many times they were simply words that had no meaning, "Sith" was simply something that was in Vader title and that EU decided to expand.


- If I understand the Sith chain of command, then Darth Vadar was never the Dark Lord of the Sith. Since there's always a master and an apprentice, then Emperor Palpatine is/was the true lord of the Sith and Vadar his apprentice, correct?


Vader had the title of "Dark Lord of the Sith", however in the OT it did not mean anything because Lucas never created the Sith at that time, the Sith were expanded into something by the EU and so its not really Lucas own creation.

Of course now things are off but its Lucas own fault, he given Vader that title and then created the rule-of-two and end up making Vader title in the OT off, perhaps Ep III explains it but I doubt it.



- Lastly, in Episode 1 and II of the movies, Palpatine becomes supreme chancellor of the Republic senate and is granted emergency dictatorship powers. How can the lord of the sith rise to this title within the Republic and a) the Jedi Coucil did not sense who he was and b) the Republic still survive despite the Sith being in charge.


Palpatine still lacks background, only thing that we know is that he had a Jedi Holocrom (Dark Empire comics) and Star Wars Database says he visited Korriban.

Also Senators are not exactly the nicest persons in the world, I think the Senate alone would be so full of dark side energy that Marka Ragnos could have a tea party with the sith 666th regiment and the Jedi would not sense a thing, when Palpatine became someone besides the "senator from Naboo" he was already powerful enough to misdirect the Jedi from finding him.

jedisolofrankum
02-18-2004, 06:15 AM
If you go to barnes and nobles and go the the scifi section of the bookstore there is a pretty good display of star wars books. I bought the star wars encyclopedia and it's pretty impressive also pick up A Guide to the Star Wars characters. I think how anakin became vader is Kenobi was fighting anakin and anakin fell into a lava pit(i think). If you like reading novels read the star wars novels, they are pretty good..
-andrew

Sunslayer
02-20-2004, 12:03 AM
Dark Side energy is not inside any persont hat is evil. The evilist person can be blind to the Force (like your average person is), like Ysanne Isard. Palpatine, a master of the Dark Side, likely used the Force to shield his presence, a skill utilized by many Jedi to avoid detection by the Empire's Inquisitors and Dark Jedi later on.

About Vader being Dark Lord of the SIth, I'd say that when Darth Bane restructured the Sith order (about 2000 years before Yavin) , he made it so the apprentice was Dark Lord of the Sith, and thus was used as the Master's agent and the representative of all Sith in the galaxy, while the Master remained in the background, wielding more power, but not even having use for the title. Darth Maul was also a Dark Lord of the Sith.

lukeiamyourdad
02-21-2004, 05:13 AM
Shouldn't this have been moved to the Star wars board?

DarksideDjembe
03-09-2004, 02:44 PM
Vader and sedius(SP) trained several dark jedi knights (Jedi Knight 2) rule of 2? i dont think its actually carved in stone. Yoda just used "always two there are" as a way to describe the begining...just my opinion of course

wassup
03-25-2004, 04:24 AM
http://www1.theforce.net/cuswe/default.asp