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Fender
01-27-2004, 11:34 PM
What is everyone's views on Communism.... Real communism not beuracratic communism like Soviet Russia, but pure Communism like Cuba.

Who here has read Marx, Engels, Lenin, Mao etc.?

Guybrush122
01-28-2004, 12:03 AM
Read Marx. Genius, for sure, but flawed.

Honestly, it wouldn't work. I'd like it to, but it wouldn't. I don't think humanity can self police like that. Capitalism seems to be working, but it's enormously flawed as well.


*sigh* I suppose "isms" are just alltogether flawed.

Ray Jones
01-28-2004, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by Fender
What is everyone's views on Communism.... Real communism not beuracratic communism like Soviet Russia, but pure Communism like Cuba.

Who here has read Marx, Engels, Lenin, Mao etc.?


i never read this stuff, i neednt, but i can tell you i lived the first 14 years in my life in a socialistic/communistic country. ... HA! you did not suppose to hear that, did you, eyh? :D

errm. the IDEA might be a good one. but practically it does not work with humans i think. although there were a few good things though, but those do not depend to capitalism or communism or whatever. :dozey:



;)

DrMcCoy
01-28-2004, 09:02 AM
i really wish it would work...

maybe when that replicator-thingy from star trek got invented and a nearly inexhaustible energy source was found, so that no one has to work for food anymore it'll work...

but:

1) the whole world has to join
2) there has to be enough people who want to do cleaning jobs, etc.
3) there has to be no serious crimes (like murder)

especially 3) seems to be very unrealistic (just watch the news...)

but it would be really great...

Ray Jones
01-28-2004, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by DrMcCoy
1) the whole world has to join
2) there has to be enough people who want to do cleaning jobs, etc.
3) there has to be no serious crimes (like murder)

especially 3) seems to be very unrealistic (just watch the news...)


some mentality change is needed here, then none of your points is unrealistic.


;)

Yufster
01-28-2004, 12:35 PM
I love the idea of Communism, so long as I reign as Supreme Chairwoman. I would elliminate 10 or so years of progress and everything would be 256 colors again. People would be forced to make Adventure Games and Doom Sequels again! Tim Schafer would replace Bill Gates as the leading Money-Pants in the world, and Bill Gates would be second in command over at Kill-The-Tweenies Palace.

edlib
01-28-2004, 02:26 PM
Communism goes against hard-wired human instinct, therefore it can never really work in the long run.

If the competitive nature is ever evolved out of existance in homo-sapiens then it just might stand a chance, but until then there will never be a true communistic society on Earth,.. just re-labled fascist dictatorships.

Guybrush122
01-28-2004, 02:33 PM
I believe that over the past few decades, propaghanda has managed to blur the line between fascism and Communism. Like, if you have Communism, fascism must be apart of it. It's entirely untrue as Communism is an economical system not a political one. But so many people don't get it: it's like talking to a wall. "How can you discuss something so in-depth when it's fascism? Don't you think fascism is wrong?" It's a bother.

Ray Jones
01-28-2004, 03:11 PM
communism as political system? worse that as economical system. i tell you.

of course.. every system is not just about the idea.

mostly its success depends on the implementation of those ideas.

edlib
01-28-2004, 03:26 PM
Problem is: Historically every communistic experiment tried in the world has degenerated into a Totalitarian semi-dictatorship that has nothing to do with the vailidity of the economic principals behind it. This was the message behind Orwell's "Animal Farm," that no matter how good your intentions are when starting out down the path to a socialist or communist society, oppertunistic forces (usually the folks with the most muscle and guns behind them) are going to take control at some point and live high off the hog (and I don't believe Orwell's use of pigs was arbitrary) and turn it into a fascist dictatorship type regime, while the majority of the well meaning workers live in squalor below them.
The use of force and mind control to keep this way of life for the party leaders and elders in existance is universal.
Name me one fully Communistic or Socialist society that hasn't followed this pattern. The USSR, Cuba, China are not and were never true communistic societies, no matter what they may say about themselves.

As long as humans are selfish and greedy this will always happen when this type of social experiment is tried. Humans are capitalists by nature, and working for the good of the group with no thought of reward for yourself is the antithesis of human nature.

Ray Jones
01-28-2004, 03:39 PM
hhmmmm. *nods* word.

Mr Flibble
01-28-2004, 06:33 PM
Its wonderful dream, but communism can't work.
Humans , by nature, are too greedy.
It would be nice for everyone to be equal, but everyone (even you) would want to be better than others.

What? Give everyone an equal and fair chance despite natural talent or skill? You know what we call that.... COMMUNISM!!

Fender
01-28-2004, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by Guybrush122
I believe that over the past few decades, propaghanda has managed to blur the line between fascism and Communism. Like, if you have Communism, fascism must be apart of it.

Who was it that said

"Fascism is Socialism gone wrong" ?

Wise words. Wise man.

As long as humans are selfish and greedy this will always happen when this type of social experiment is tried.

Communism is in my opinion the best theoretical model for life possible, however due to man's lack of compassion and over-abundance of pride it cannot work practically.

Ernil
01-28-2004, 11:16 PM
I'm actually going to cross the line and say that it isn't that great. This is because, in humans, not only are there some people that would seemingly do everything to make it not work, but every average person is a little less likely to help the system along. No one will get up early, and while straightening their tie in the mirror, go "I'm going to save lives today. I'm going to invent the damnest invention, and I'm going to still get paid as much as everyone else."

Plus, I don't like the idea of already having your financial success planned out for you. That'd be no fun for a high-dreaming teenager.


And Cuba? There's the epitome of success.

Mr.Burger
01-29-2004, 05:14 AM
or in so many words, ernil:

no more mexicans.

Skinkie
01-29-2004, 03:56 PM
I'm conducting research to genetically alter humans so communism will work.... Oh, who am I kiddin, I'm fine as is.

edlib
01-30-2004, 10:45 PM
Damn straight!

:joy:

ptdc
02-01-2004, 05:01 PM
Communism works, in theory. Unfortunately all the implementations of communism have been terrible. Boo I say! BOOOO!

Guybrush122
02-02-2004, 01:05 AM
Communism is utopian. So is Anarchy.

Anarchy could never work, and this explains why Communism is never implemented right. It's because it has nothing to do wtih implementation...the idea itself is too utopian to work. Period.

Acrylic
02-02-2004, 03:06 AM
Communism rocks.

'Nuff said.

Guybrush122
02-02-2004, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by Acrylic
Communism rocks.

A Bob Dylan song comes to mind.

Everybody must get stoned...(duh duh duh duh)

ptdc
02-02-2004, 11:50 PM
While we're on the subject of politics and such, did you know that pirates had democracy? Pirate captains as well as the destination were voted for by the crew. Fascinating, fact.

Skinkie
02-03-2004, 02:55 AM
I bet if they didn't vote the right way they were shot. Democracy at it's finest.

ptdc
02-04-2004, 12:15 AM
Not usually shot, but occasionally marooned if they didn't accept the outcome of the vote.