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View Full Version : Beta Testers! Beta Testers! Beta Testers!


razorace
02-23-2004, 07:07 PM
Ok, guys. Phunk's a really beleiver of beta testing and I agree for the most part with him about it. To make sure all the components of OJP are working properly, we need to get as much game time with them as possible.

However, I'm stuck on a dail up and Phunk's busy with MB2, so we need someone to lead up beta testing OJP under true MP conditions. As such, I'm suggesting we change the way beta testing occurs around here.

The deal is that I'll start creating regular beta packages of whatever distro you want to beta in exchange for you playing the mod to check for bugs. And since the project is already open source to start with, I'm going to suggest we do open beta testing.

Those who regularly beta test and/or report bugs will be given beta tester credit and much more consideration when it comes to me personally implimenting their ideas.

Please let me if you're interested.

razorace
02-24-2004, 05:35 AM
Enhanced v0.0.2 beta 1 (ojp.jediknight.net/files/betas/ojp_enhanced_002b1.zip)

EDIT: Ytmh just pointed out that I screwed up the install directory inside the zip file. Instead of going in the /GameData folder of your JKA install, it should go in a /GameData/ojpenhanced folder in your JKA install directory. Sorry about the mistake.

Wudan
02-24-2004, 12:23 PM
Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers!

ROFL ...

razorace
02-24-2004, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by Wudan
Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers!

ROFL ...

Hey, you got the reference. :)

Darth Sun
02-24-2004, 08:32 PM
First thing I noticed by checking the info given by the Console upon loading JA:

WARNING: Unknown token ROOT in models/players/_humanoid/animation.cfg

It appears something is mistyped in animation.cfg, but apparently doesn't affect much.

Aqua saber color only has the white core, no aqua blade color is present.

More as I continue to test it and read the documentation to know what I'm exactly testing and how it's supposed to behave.

Edit: Nice idea with the manual block, works well but... are the saber swings supposed to be about 1/4 or 1/3 of the regular speed?
Played with this for a while and hitting (or being hit for that matter) was quite impossible unless katas or special moves were used since they are the only thing moving in normal speed.
Normal moves are way too easily dodged by simply doing a hop, roll, sidestep or backstep.

Edit 2: Bots become rather useless with this swing speed.
I spawned the Alora bot and just stood there, saber off, while it continuously kept trying to hit me.
The result was the bot constantly stepping back in the wrong moments, thus missing the swing entirely, or constantly missing due to dodge bar (nice work with the dodge system by the way) refilling fast enough due to the constant bot swing misses; it took about 10 minutes for the bot to manage to kill my iddle, saber off, character.

I saw my opponent being knocked to the floor from simply swinging a dual wield saber at me, while I was just simply standing, doing nothing, holding a double saber; not sure how normal this is, but I didn't see it mentioned in the sabersys.txt readme.

Edit 3: The run up the wall animation is also slowed down just like the swing animations, making it look like they are sliding up the wall; the consequent jump off the wall animation at the top of the run is also slowed down.
Jumping off a wall animates propperly, but if you stick to the wall and then jump off, the animation is slowed down.

razorace
02-24-2004, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by Darth Sun
First thing I noticed by checking the info given by the Console upon loading JA:

WARNING: Unknown token ROOT in models/players/_humanoid/animation.cfg

It appears something is mistyped in animation.cfg, but apparently doesn't affect much.

It's a general bug with the JKA debug system. Raven didn't account for the "root" animation when they created the system.

I'll fix that soon.


Edit: Nice idea with the manual block, works well but... are the saber swings supposed to be about 1/4 or 1/3 of the regular speed?
Played with this for a while and hitting (or being hit for that matter) was quite impossible unless katas or special moves were used since they are the only thing moving in normal speed.
Normal moves are way too easily dodged by simply doing a hop, roll, sidestep or backstep.

try increasing the saber animation speed with the new saber animation speed cvar (g_saberanimspeed) I think. I personally like .5. It defualts to .25 (novice speed). Since I've been hearing complaints about that speed, I think I'll boost the default to .5.

Edit 2: Bots become rather useless with this swing speed.
I spawned the Alora bot and just stood there, saber off, while it continuously kept trying to hit me.
The result was the bot constantly stepping back in the wrong moments, thus missing the swing entirely, or constantly missing due to dodge bar (nice work with the dodge system by the way) refilling fast enough due to the constant bot swing misses; it took about 10 minutes for the bot to manage to kill my iddle, saber off, character.

Noted, the bots are pretty retarded when it comes to the new system.

I saw my opponent being knocked to the floor from simply swinging a dual wield saber at me, while I was just simply standing, doing nothing, holding a double saber; not sure how normal this is, but I didn't see it mentioned in the sabersys.txt readme.

Running while attacking has a much higher chance of critical failure (dropping saber/knockback/knockdown).


Edit 3: The run up the wall animation is also slowed down just like the swing animations, making it look like they are sliding up the wall; the consequent jump off the wall animation at the top of the run is also slowed down.
Jumping off a wall animates propperly, but if you stick to the wall and then jump off, the animation is slowed down.

Ok, I never noticed that, that's not right. I'll fix that soon.

Thanks for your input. :)

Darth Sun
02-24-2004, 10:44 PM
Glad I could be of assistance. ^_^

Indeed, having g_saberanimspeed at 0.5 is much better; I personally prefer 0.75 though.

razorace
02-25-2004, 10:08 AM
I checked out the wall moves issue that you mentioned and I didn't see the problem. Could you please explain more in detail?

Darth Sun
02-25-2004, 06:36 PM
When you have debugmelee enabled you can press and hold jump to remain stuck to the wall; when you release jump to hop off the wall, the animation is played with the speed the saber animation is set (by default 1/4th of the speed).
Same goes for the run up the wall animation (forward+2xJump in front of a wall).

Hekx
02-27-2004, 12:32 PM
I've only just run a test of the mod with bots, but I hope to do a group testing with my clan sometime soon.

Apart from the previously mentioned things, I noticed some clipping issues with TrueView.

This happens when doing a Blue/Fast full turn swing and facing downwards.

[Screenies]

1 (http://lucid.no-ip.com/ojp/HeadClipping1.jpg), 2 (http://lucid.no-ip.com/ojp/HeadClipping2.jpg), 3 (http://lucid.no-ip.com/ojp/HeadClipping3.jpg) & 4 (http://lucid.no-ip.com/ojp/HeadClipping4.jpg)

One other clipping I noticed is facing down in the Red/Heavy stance.

[Screenies]

Clickie (http://lucid.no-ip.com/ojp/HeavyStanceClipping.jpg)

Also in all of the screenshots, what is that meter up top?

razorace
02-27-2004, 07:28 PM
Most of the clipping during a spin are occuring because you don't have any of the camera movement while spinning activated. See the readme for details.

As for the saber clipping in heavy stance, there's not much I can do since that's due to a variety of factors beyond my control.

However, I suppose there's some additional things I could try if people really want less clipping in True View.

Admiral Chemix
02-28-2004, 01:32 PM
List of bugs, anoyances and tedious features that were turned on and forgot the cvars to turn them off. I think saber speed should be by default, normal speed IE 1, I felt like it was a matrix scene with all the slow moves, it drove me nuts, atleast have it in the menu so people don't always have to remember the cvar. 2, force regen, dang not being able to regen force while moving sucks, I run to test the force fall, I jump, suprisingly enough it's a normal jump and a perfectly normal fall even though I hadn't used the force since 3 minutes ago, again have it by default set to normal, regen at any time except while using force, give it a menu thing. The blade colors, rock. Everything is fine except for what has been mentioned in previous posts and the tedious features which were automaticly turned on, dang I just can't remember all those cvars. note that I am not trying to sound rude, idiotic or whiny in any way.

razorace
02-28-2004, 05:30 PM
So, basically, you want to be playing OJP Basic when you're playing with the OJP Enhanced beta. If you don't want to play with the additional features, that's fine, that's exactly why there's two seperate distros.

Admiral Chemix
02-28-2004, 05:48 PM
no I realy like OJP enhanced, u don't have to be so rude about it, I just don't like slow saber speed by default which can be adjusted without ojp :p and I don't like having to stand there to regen my force pool. People aren't going to stand for 2 minutes then jump, they are jumping on the run. The mod is realy great but u should atleast make certain features optional

Soruss
02-28-2004, 06:45 PM
Obvious bugs:

- When destroying the pillars in the fortress map I got this message at the top of my screen:

i: Client 183550 was an invalid self entity in G_DoDodge.

- When the mod is loaded, and you return to the mod list under setup, only the first letter of each mod is shown.

I also encountered a few of the previously mentioned problems (the wall climb speed bug).

Gameplay stuff:

- I could get my saber stuck in a wall when I was running by it with only a single saber, but not with either the double saber or the dual sabers. I don't think I should be getting stuck on walls to begin with.

- The lack of force regen is too much. Either greatly increase the regen rate while not moving and walking, or put it back to theway it was. Having to stand around for a while to let your force regenerate is not a good feature for an action game. Reminds me of an MMORPG =(

- With the saberanimspeed at 0.5, while the speeds for dual sabers, and blue and yellow stances for single saber are fine. The animation for red stance and the double saber are painfully slow.

- I have yet to see a clean hit with a saber. I watched two bots sit in a corner and wail on each other for almost a minute before one died. I even tried to take a swipe every now and then, but my saber would just bounce off. So, I stood still, without my saber out and let a bot have at me. When I wasn't hit for 2-5 damage, the saber would pass clean through me and do no damage.

- Maybe manual block should slow you down? Just seemed to make sense to me.

- Dodge.... I think I only had it work once and it made me roll backwards. Not cool. If I was fighting on a ledge or bridge, I'd have rolled off.

I really don't understand what you are trying to do with this mod. On one hand you try to make it more realistic and give more freedom, and make it less random and automatic by adding manual saber blocking, but on the other hand you add a dodge system where it seems like the idea is to totally automate all forms of protecting yourself from a saber.

- View lock... Even though I saw mention of it, I couldn't find how to activate it in the documentation. If it is what I think it is, a console-esque system to automatically lock your view onto another player, then I don't want it anyways. If this is true... Again, are you trying to automate saber combat or add freedom? Please don't do both.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

As you can no doubt tell, I didn't have the opportunity to play with another person, which is unfortunate. If anything does actually work different with real opponents than bots, just mention it.

I must say though, I'm impressed with how much you have got to work. It looks very promising!

lonepadawan
02-28-2004, 10:55 PM
After lowering the dodge regen speed, turning off always run and increasing saber speed I found it more playable..

I feel like this new system is hard to master.. but quite cool...

Things I noticed

While using a pistol it displays the message "charging up" for some reason... not a big issue really.

When using grapples, if another player swings at the person your grappling they go into a dodge anim and break out of your grapple..I can't remember if you continue the grapple animation.

Manual blocking... this could just be me but it seems you have to walk backwards while blocking before you can go into a pure forward block...

Dodge roll can be annoying if it chucks you off the edge.

Wow you actually found a use for meditating, walking and standing still.
Nice one!

Umm... results of manual blocking and even normal blocking seem...random. My imagination again prehaps.

Everything else seems damn cool. I'm not entirely sure having stamina and force share the same meter was a good idea but apart from that everything seems fine..

Soruss
02-28-2004, 11:00 PM
Had a little more time to spend with the mod.

However this time the mod acted completely different, and the only thing I have changed was the animspeed.

Instead of the sabers just bouncing off of opponents, they dodged everything.

I still believe the rolling dodges are a huge no no. I am very much against the game launching me off in a manner I do not intend.

Dodging seems overly effective, so much so that it over shadows manual blocking. I had to get insane amounts of clean hits (which were all dodged) on my opponent to kill them.

I'm also still in the dark as to what viewlock is.

razorace
02-29-2004, 04:07 AM
Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
no I realy like OJP enhanced, u don't have to be so rude about it, I just don't like slow saber speed by default which can be adjusted without ojp :p and I don't like having to stand there to regen my force pool. People aren't going to stand for 2 minutes then jump, they are jumping on the run. The mod is realy great but u should atleast make certain features optional

oh, ok. You had just been railing on Enhanced previously and I thought you were complaining about it in general rather than specific features of it.

The saber speed has been boosted to .5 by defualt.

As for fatigue, the concept is to make it so players will walk and block attacks instead of running everywhere while spamming attack.

razorace
02-29-2004, 04:19 AM
- When destroying the pillars in the fortress map I got this message at the top of my screen:
i: Client 183550 was an invalid self entity in G_DoDodge.

Fixed.

- When the mod is loaded, and you return to the mod list under setup, only the first letter of each mod is shown.

Yeah, I think that has to do with Teancum's menu enhancements. I've already asked him to look into it.

Gameplay stuff:

- I could get my saber stuck in a wall when I was running by it with only a single saber, but not with either the double saber or the dual sabers. I don't think I should be getting stuck on walls to begin with.


- With the saberanimspeed at 0.5, while the speeds for dual sabers, and blue and yellow stances for single saber are fine. The animation for red stance and the double saber are painfully slow.

Agreed.

- I have yet to see a clean hit with a saber. I watched two bots sit in a corner and wail on each other for almost a minute before one died. I even tried to take a swipe every now and then, but my saber would just bounce off. So, I stood still, without my saber out and let a bot have at me. When I wasn't hit for 2-5 damage, the saber would pass clean through me and do no damage.

You need to boost your "sv_fps" setting. I really need to document that issue. Anyway, set it to 50 or 100 and try again.

- Maybe manual block should slow you down? Just seemed to make sense to me.
Why?

- Dodge.... I think I only had it work once and it made me roll backwards. Not cool. If I was fighting on a ledge or bridge, I'd have rolled off.

I really don't understand what you are trying to do with this mod. On one hand you try to make it more realistic and give more freedom, and make it less random and automatic by adding manual saber blocking, but on the other hand you add a dodge system where it seems like the idea is to totally automate all forms of protecting yourself from a saber.

The idea is to give maximum control but at the same time preventing the sabers from being unrealistic (IE pass thru or a lot of touching without killing the victim).

I agree that the dodge rolls probably need some sort of check to make sure you don't just roll off cliffs. I'm still thinking of ways to do that.

- View lock... Even though I saw mention of it, I couldn't find how to activate it in the documentation. If it is what I think it is, a console-esque system to automatically lock your view onto another player, then I don't want it anyways. If this is true... Again, are you trying to automate saber combat or add freedom? Please don't do both.

No, it is a system to pretty sabers from passing thru objects on impact unless you actually killed them first. So far, it seems to work fine against wall objects but I haven't had much luck testing it against players/sabers. This needs more testing.

It's always on and it is the cause of the "getting stuck on walls" issue that was mentioned before.

razorace
02-29-2004, 04:23 AM
While using a pistol it displays the message "charging up" for some reason... not a big issue really.

That's a debug compile message. Just ignore it since it will not be in the final compiles.

When using grapples, if another player swings at the person your grappling they go into a dodge anim and break out of your grapple..I can't remember if you continue the grapple animation.

Great job catching that one. I totally forgot about that. I've added a fix. It will be in the next beta.

Manual blocking... this could just be me but it seems you have to walk backwards while blocking before you can go into a pure forward block...

Please explain farther, I don't know what you mean.

Umm... results of manual blocking and even normal blocking seem...random. My imagination again prehaps.

It is random to some degree (luck, freak accidents, and all that) but I'm trying to make it as dependant on the situation as possible. Do you have some suggestions on how I can improve it?

razorace
02-29-2004, 07:46 AM
Enhanced v0.0.2 beta 2 (http://personal.palouse.net/razorace/ojp_enhanced_002b2.zip)

Admiral Chemix
02-29-2004, 10:10 AM
Now I might have missed it while looking through the cvarlist, but it would be nice to have atleast a cvar to turn the force regen only when not moving thing off. It can get anoying, ur running, u jump, u land, u keep running, u jump and fall into a pit of lava :p no offense, just gets a tad anoying,

razorace
02-29-2004, 10:53 AM
Regen only stops when you're running. The point of that is to accurately prevent people from regenning fatigue while running away from their attackers. Plus, we really want people to slow down to walk speed when battleing each other.

Admiral Chemix
02-29-2004, 11:35 AM
still please atleast make a toggling cvar for it

razorace
02-29-2004, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
still please atleast make a toggling cvar for it

I don't currently see a need for it. Adding cvars only muddles up the server waters and would throw off the game balance. While it does take some getting used to, I think it's for the best.

Admiral Chemix
02-29-2004, 08:04 PM
most people have run on by default, there is a need for it, for those who like to explore maps or only duel in certain locations. How would it throw off game balance? Note that I am not trying to be anoying and yes I know it's ur mod, and yes I know I cannot controle what u do, it's just an anoying feature that I bet alot of people would like to turn off on certain servers.

Darth Sun
02-29-2004, 09:04 PM
If people want to explore maps then they do it offline and not online.
If people are only dueling, then surely they are also standing while doing nothing waiting for the next opponent; during that time they can simply meditate and the Force regenerates fully quite quickly.

IMO I don't want to turn it off, I love this feature.
I have "always run" on by default, but I also have a button which I can easilly press to make me walk if I have to, thus this doesn't affect me in any way.

Adapt, that's what the objective of this system is, to make things more strategic and less random; if you don't want to stop running in the moments you strategicly find are good to regenerate, then play OJP Basic instead of OJP Enhanced.


quote:
----------------------------------------
Manual blocking... this could just be me but it seems you have to walk backwards while blocking before you can go into a pure forward block...
----------------------------------------

Please explain farther, I don't know what you mean.


What he means is that if you press forward+block you don't block, because blocks only work in 7 directions and not when pressing forward; you have to press another direction to cause the block animation to occur before you can walk forward with that directional block activated.

Admiral Chemix
03-01-2004, 12:33 AM
first of all, I've been on servers, duelers don't stand and wait for passers by. Second of all, do u mean this should be meant for those with high speed comnnections only? 56k sucks, I know, UPGRADE TO CABLE!, I know. The mod should be offliner freindly aswell. As for strategy, Yeah I'm all for strategy, adapting and such, but such an option should be toggleable for those who don't like slowly walking everywhere, people don't use walk often, just durring duels mostly from what I've seen, if it were to be for the dueling game mode and for ffa duels, then it would be a nice feature to stop force spamming and cowards, but it affects normal gameplay, running and jumping becomes a hassle. All I ask is a simple cvar to turn it off

Darth Sun
03-01-2004, 02:53 AM
I also play on servers.
The majority I tried are just people dueling in a FFA envirognment, so things don't change too much from just dueling in those kinds of servers.

Duelers sometimes do stop and wait for the next person if the place they are at is a known dueling spot in a FFA map, especially if there's other people around them watching the duels; someone will quickly fill in the spot if that's the case.

Regardless, what really should be done is to ensure the Force bar and Dodge bar are filled once the duel is over (assuming people use the call duel button) and also when the duel begins.
That should solve things in FFA servers.
If it doesn't, it means you're spamming special moves in the middle of a crowd trying to get a lucky hit and kill a couple of them in the mess of swinging sabers, which is something this system aims to correct.

My two cents.

razorace
03-01-2004, 03:29 AM
What he means is that if you press forward+block you don't block, because blocks only work in 7 directions and not when pressing forward; you have to press another direction to cause the block animation to occur before you can walk forward with that directional block activated.

Well, the main reason is that there's no bottom/down block position in the game. Personally I think it works out since it allows you to move forward with a block position. I might do something about that at some point.

first of all, I've been on servers, duelers don't stand and wait for passers by. Second of all, do u mean this should be meant for those with high speed comnnections only? 56k sucks, I know, UPGRADE TO CABLE!, I know. The mod should be offliner freindly aswell. As for strategy, Yeah I'm all for strategy, adapting and such, but such an option should be toggleable for those who don't like slowly walking everywhere, people don't use walk often, just durring duels mostly from what I've seen, if it were to be for the dueling game mode and for ffa duels, then it would be a nice feature to stop force spamming and cowards, but it affects normal gameplay, running and jumping becomes a hassle. All I ask is a simple cvar to turn it off

The point is to prevent people from just turning and running away when they run low on fatigue. I want people to have to be able to conserve their energy to win battles.

The only time when this will affect running around and jumping is after you make at least 3 full powered without slowing down to a walk/stop to regen. All the maps are set up so you don't have to jump everywhere anyway.

razorace
03-01-2004, 06:57 AM
Enhanced v0.0.2 beta 3 (http://personal.palouse.net/razorace/ojp_enhanced_002b3.zip)

- Dodge Blocking works now.

- PreCog (IE dodging before something happens) Dodges for thermal weapons and other explosive weapons.

- Walk speed increased.

Admiral Chemix
03-01-2004, 05:35 PM
I don't know if this was intentional or not, but saber attacks seem to be draining force. I know force spam is a problem and all, but for heavens sake man, sometimes jump during fights, go get health, Yes people run away and get health and come back, yeah, thats sorta the point of the medpacks, no offense but u need to stop with the force restrictions :( it kinda makes them worthless and pointless to use. Which defeats the purpose of having the force at all, the way this is going, u might aswell disable medpacks and armor packs, get rid of force, make it guns and single sabers only. And u might very well attempt to do this, which would suck, but it's ur mod, I just hate everything draining my force pool, even when I don't use force, it gets realy anoying, when I say anoying I mean ANOYING. I'm not saying I hate the whole mod, just the dang force draining & no regen while running parts. People will run away with or without force, then they will use medpacks and they will come back, thats the point of the medpack, it's not meant for just strong players only who have just one a duel match. There will be cowards yes, there will be newbies, yes, are all mod made maps made for non force users, no, certain things require force u know, not everyone only plays the raven maps, and even then u have to use force in some to get to certain areas. I'm not trying to sound rude, I'm not trying to sound like a controle freak, I'm not trying to force u to change ur mod, I just think that u will screw ur whole mod with these dang features which can't be turned off, because u don't want to go through the hassle of making cvars, or because u want people to play ur way, ur vision, and it alone. I'm afraid u'll ruin ur mod, thats all. I don't want u to screw it up. I like ur mod allot, just not these new features designed to impose ur version of gameplay, I know, I know it's ur mod, I just wish to help, thank u for reading this, have a great day modders and good luck

razorace
03-01-2004, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by Admiral Chemix
I don't know if this was intentional or not, but saber attacks seem to be draining force. I know force spam is a problem and all, but for heavens sake man, sometimes jump during fights, go get health, Yes people run away and get health and come back, yeah, thats sorta the point of the medpacks, no offense but u need to stop with the force restrictions :( it kinda makes them worthless and pointless to use. Which defeats the purpose of having the force at all, the way this is going, u might aswell disable medpacks and armor packs, get rid of force, make it guns and single sabers only. And u might very well attempt to do this, which would suck, but it's ur mod, I just hate everything draining my force pool, even when I don't use force, it gets realy anoying, when I say anoying I mean ANOYING. I'm not saying I hate the whole mod, just the dang force draining & no regen while running parts. People will run away with or without force, then they will use medpacks and they will come back, thats the point of the medpack, it's not meant for just strong players only who have just one a duel match. There will be cowards yes, there will be newbies, yes, are all mod made maps made for non force users, no, certain things require force u know, not everyone only plays the raven maps, and even then u have to use force in some to get to certain areas. I'm not trying to sound rude, I'm not trying to sound like a controle freak, I'm not trying to force u to change ur mod, I just think that u will screw ur whole mod with these dang features which can't be turned off, because u don't want to go through the hassle of making cvars, or because u want people to play ur way, ur vision, and it alone. I'm afraid u'll ruin ur mod, thats all. I don't want u to screw it up. I like ur mod allot, just not these new features designed to impose ur version of gameplay, I know, I know it's ur mod, I just wish to help, thank u for reading this, have a great day modders and good luck

With Dodge in place, health and armor packs are going to be much less utility.

I've yet to hear you say anything positive about any of Enhanced features before or after the betas. Again, you sound like you're more interested in the non-gameplay altering Basic distro rather than the Enhanced one. If you want to constantly run around, jump like a monkey, or spam attack, stick to Basic.

The point of Basic to provide the non-gameplay alter features of OJP to the people that don't want other changes to the game. With Basic in place, we can then use Enhanced as a playground for more radical changes. My particular additions to Enhanced are focused on making the game more "realistic" and more challenging.


In addition, please use paragraphs to seperate up your posts. Not doing so makes it very hard to read your posts.

Gotaiken
03-01-2004, 09:11 PM
razor is currently trying to fix that problem, we arent sure exactly how though as of yet, he wants to stop spamming, but freedom and ability to do stuff must be kept. any ideas are welcomed, dont critisize without an idea to help him out.

Pahricida
03-01-2004, 09:50 PM
hrm I've noticed that the Force Fall abilty is pretty annoying when trying to strafe jump...
Perhaps you could avoid that by activating force fall through a key combination.

Gotaiken
03-01-2004, 10:35 PM
ok here is the best setting that ive found, everyone use these

g_forceregen 325
g_dodgeregen 2000
g_saberanimspeed .7
sv_fps 100


and does anyone know the saberlock cvar???

JediLiberator
03-01-2004, 10:39 PM
why not have force fall activate when you hold down crouch and jump at the same time? Just a thought.

Gotaiken
03-01-2004, 10:59 PM
chage that, make saberanimspeed .65 perfect for aiming, dont worry we'll change reds speed.

razorace
03-02-2004, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by Pahricida
hrm I've noticed that the Force Fall abilty is pretty annoying when trying to strafe jump...
Perhaps you could avoid that by activating force fall through a key combination.

Yeah, I'll fix that. I gotta find the speed at which fall damage occurs and then set Force Fall to activate a little above that speed.

keshire
03-02-2004, 05:37 AM
why not have force fall activate when you hold down crouch and jump at the same time? Just a thought.

I'd like to see that turned into a dive move actually.

jump and then immediatly press crouch to dive. It's one of the things on my to-do list once Corto releases his animatable skel.

Along two versions of it. One where you hit the ground and roll and another where you continue the dive when you hit water.

razorace
03-02-2004, 07:00 AM
yeah, sounds like a cool move.

Anyway....

Enhanced v0.0.2b4 (http://personal.palouse.net/razorace/ojp_enhanced_002b4.zip)

- Removed manual blocking button. Replaced it with block/parry button. Hold to block incoming saber attacks. To parry incoming attacks, press and hold the block button right before an attack will hit. Entering block/parry mode costs 1 FP but you can stay in it as long as you want without cost. However, remember that your parry bonuses (chances of forcing your attacker into a knockaway, etc.) go way down after a second or so off holding the block button.

- Totally hacked the bots to walk instead of run everywhere.

- Remember to make sure that...
sv_fps is set to 50 or 100.
g_saberDmgDelay_Wound = at least 100
cl_maxpackets = sv_fps

- g_debugsabercombat 7 = Debug messages for the parry bonus results.

- g_dodgeRegenTime changed to 1000

- g_forceRegenTime changed to 500

Kurgan
03-02-2004, 07:55 PM
Suddenly the title of this thread reminded me of the Steve Balmer "Developers!" video. lol


Good luck with the test guys. ; )

Soruss
03-02-2004, 11:14 PM
The dodge roll is very, very, very annoying.

It's just rediculous when your character and your opponent are rolling every single strike. Not to mention the falling off the cliff issue.

Takes a looooooooooooooooooooong time to kill someone. 4 or 5 strikes one after another in yellow stance. I had damage scale set at 2, does this even change dodge? My guess is no.

When you auto block it automatically repositions your saber as you hold down the button, sometime this is annoying because I am lining up the block and all of a sudden my saber moves. Maybe if the saber would stay in it's initial position as the button is held down?

Force fall still works if no force is on.

It'd be nice if force fall had a seperate button other than jump, I find it kind of annoying when I'm landing and goto take a second jump and I force fall just before I hit the ground and mess up my second jump.

razorace
03-03-2004, 02:30 AM
Originally posted by Soruss
The dodge roll is very, very, very annoying.

It's just rediculous when your character and your opponent are rolling every single strike. Not to mention the falling off the cliff issue.

make sure that g_DmgDelay_wound is set to non-zero. I recommend 100. That will help. I'll work on the falling off cliffs issue.

Takes a looooooooooooooooooooong time to kill someone. 4 or 5 strikes one after another in yellow stance. I had damage scale set at 2, does this even change dodge? My guess is no.

That is intentional to some degree. Set g_regenDodgeTime to something higher. Ive been playing with 1000 but it might need to be higher than that.

When you auto block it automatically repositions your saber as you hold down the button, sometime this is annoying because I am lining up the block and all of a sudden my saber moves. Maybe if the saber would stay in it's initial position as the button is held down?

Yeah, I don't exactly like that much either. I like your idea thou. We might try that.


Force fall still works if no force is on.

It'd be nice if force fall had a seperate button other than jump, I find it kind of annoying when I'm landing and goto take a second jump and I force fall just before I hit the ground and mess up my second jump.

Noted. I'll fix the no force bug ASAP. As for Force Fall activation, I'm going to be upping the minimum fall speed to activate it so that should fix the problem.

Master_Keralys
03-03-2004, 02:13 PM
Only bugs I've noticed so far (in only about half an hour of testing last night on beta 3) were:

The RGB Sabers, though they work great, have a little wierd stuff in the menus. You can (manually, by clicking just past the edge) or actually type in, values less than 0. I think the lowest it'll go manually is -12; I haven't messed with it that much with typing. Not a big deal; it just subtracts whatever neg # you have in from 255, apparently.
The aforementioned saber passthru - you said this can be fixed with sv_fps and whatnot, so I'm not worried about it. I'm assuming you're going to make all those standard at some point?
Did you update the walk speed? B/c holy crud that was slow! I can see what you're doing and whatnot, but raising it even by a fourth from its b3 value would help immensely.


The only other recommendation I'd make after playing it so far is this: have a separate Force regen bar from the Fatigue bar. (Maybe just put fatigue in the same area as Dodge, which would make sense). The reason for this is that I personally feel Fatigue and Force should affect each other but not necessarily be the same thing. Perhaps the more fatigued one is, the slower Force regens. It also leads to the idea of thus having a Force Refresh power that refills your fatigue bar but drains a ton of Force.

Fantastic gameplay; the little bit of work I did with the saber stuff is excellent; I've already modified the sabers I used to be compatible with it ridiculously easily, so nice job. I like the manual blocking, so Ii'll have to see with the parry. Is it still directional like the manual blocking?

Admiral Chemix
03-03-2004, 04:11 PM
enhanced features I like :D
New menu options
New saber color options rgb and such
Old Gametypes Available, Jedi Master, Holocron.... :cool:
True Veiw :eek:
Better Hit detection :p
Upped vehicle limit

Enhanced Features I dislike :mad:
Force drain with saber attacks :(
lack of force regen while running
slow walking to force regen
bot problems having to do with the new saber system :bdroid1:

Perhaps u should make an enhanced lite LoL :p or the easiest solution, cvars :D

If u were already planning to put the features I mentioned in the enhanced features I like list in basic, then nm

Master_Keralys
03-03-2004, 05:10 PM
Okay, I've put about another hour and a half in. There seems to be little or no problem with the rgb saber stuff, true view, menu. Most of the cvars seem to be fine.

Now, maybe it's just me doing something wrong, but cg_sabermelee doesn't seem to work at all; it's doing the stupid "Let's make it a text chat" thing instead of a command. Is it just me screwing something up or is there actually something wrong with it?

After playing around with it this much, I haven't noticed but a few major bugs. First, even with the settings all set at least where razor and the others have been having success, my disgusting saber passthru without damage is still happening, more so with two or staff sabers than with single, but still there will all of 'em.

Obviously the bots are screwy, so I'm taking that into account (that's all I can play against for now). Even so, I'd stand there with my saber off and just watch several different bots just hack like mad at me and see the pretty little trails go through me and take no damage. It's almost like it's doing dodge code - but without the animation or the meter dropping. Not sure on that one.

The other big problem that may or may not need to be addressed within this release is that the grapple moves are seriously overpowered. I could just run around in melee mode and annihilate Jedi Master-level saber user bots with ease. The grapples (the forward and standing still are ridiculously easy to land) destroy the people, and there doesn't seem to be any way out. On the other hand, it's nearly impossible to land the head-knee bashing back grapple ever. Some balance there would help immensely.

Admiral - go check the readme, but I'm pretty sure that all of those are in Basic. Hit detection might be the only one that isn't... As far as the bots go, they weren't programmed to use this system, so the fact that they're working at all is enough for me.

I love the slowing of the anims when low on Fatigue points: I would make it happen at a slightly higher value, though (I think it's at ten right now, 20 would be better). And, after playing it this much, I think there definitely needs to be a difference between Force and Fatigue. My suggestion would be that the less fatigue points one has, the slower Force regens, and vice versa. As I mentioned earlier, one could even create a new Force power that would regen some Fatigue but at high cost. This seems to fit in better with the movies and books, where Jedi often use the Force to refresh themselves - but are a little drained of the Force itself afterwards. I think this would eliminate the problem of Force depending on walk speed (not so consistent with the SW universe, as evidence by Jedi enhancing their speed with the force ie Speed). Likewise, using a lightsaber doesn't drain a Jedi's ability to touch the Force, it simply physically tires him. Instead, only Fatigue should depend on walk speed, and Force it's own thing that regens on its own. Just my two cents...

Oh, and after this - walk speed isn't bad. A little faster might be nice, but overall this isn't too bad.

Finally, I'm not sure I like the current parry system as well. I liked the manual block better. Perhaps some combo of the two would be better?

Soruss
03-03-2004, 07:02 PM
"make sure that g_DmgDelay_wound is set to non-zero. I recommend 100. That will help. I'll work on the falling off cliffs issue."

I'm pretty sure it was at 100. Is it possible to disable the rolling? It bothers me enough that I'd say I wouldn't bother playing MP against anyone with dodge rolling. I'd prefer that an automated system doesn't have such rash control over my movement. I can roll to dodge quite well on my own =P On that note, maybe rolling should take fatigue? Maybe some of the special jumping moves might take fatigue instead of force, or maybe just jumping in general might take a bit of fatigue? Might stop people from randomly jumping around. Although one of the fun things about JK2 is turning on speed and jumping around the levels. Sorry, random splurge of ideas.

"That is intentional to some degree. Set g_regenDodgeTime to something higher. Ive been playing with 1000 but it might need to be higher than that."

I'll try setting it higher. Would a cvar for the damage done to the dodge meter be a possibility?

razorace
03-03-2004, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by Master_Keralys
The RGB Sabers, though they work great, have a little wierd stuff in the menus. You can (manually, by clicking just past the edge) or actually type in, values less than 0. I think the lowest it'll go manually is -12; I haven't messed with it that much with typing. Not a big deal; it just subtracts whatever neg # you have in from 255, apparently.

I checked the menu files and it looks like both issues are just general problems with menu engine. Not really something I can fix. Fortunately, it sounds like sanity checks within the rgb saber system are properly handling the bad values.

The aforementioned saber passthru - you said this can be fixed with sv_fps and whatnot, so I'm not worried about it. I'm assuming you're going to make all those standard at some point?
Did you update the walk speed? B/c holy crud that was slow! I can see what you're doing and whatnot, but raising it even by a fourth from its b3 value would help immensely.

Well, unfortunately, it looks like I can't have the code change the nessicary cvars to boost the fps from inside the code. So, instead I'll be doing a tweak guide to explain which cvars have to be changed for improved internet connections and hit connection.

And yes, I am aware that the walk speed still feels slow. I'm still tweaking it based on beta testing feedback. It will be higher in the next beta.

The only other recommendation I'd make after playing it so far is this: have a separate Force regen bar from the Fatigue bar.

I've had that suggested before but I don't really see the benefit in it. Plus, it would also mean ANOTHER meter on the screen.

Master_Keralys
03-03-2004, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by razoraceWell, unfortunately, it looks like I can't have the code change the nessicary cvars to boost the fps from inside the code. So, instead I'll be doing a tweak guide to explain which cvars have to be changed for improved internet connections and hit connection.

And yes, I am aware that the walk speed still feels slow. I'm still tweaking it based on beta testing feedback. It will be higher in the next beta.

Okay. Not a problem with the fps thing, I just figured I'd check and see; that will through some newbies at first. I'm glad to hear you're looking at walk speed. In my personal opinion, about 1/4 to 1/3 again as fast would be about perfect.
I've had that suggested before but I don't really see the benefit in it. Plus, it would also mean ANOTHER meter on the screen.

I just personally find it a little irritating. It's no bid deal really; the only reason I'd even make it is to allow for the "Force Refresh" power and to make it a little more lifelike. And I was thinking about it meter-wise: you could just stick it inside the Dodge meter (the same way health and shields) display. If you choose not to do so, it's no biggie. I just think it would enhance the gameplay a little.

One other thing I noticed about the grapple: because of the current dodge system, you're way too hard to kill with a lightsaber when you're in melee mode. Maybe it's the faulty hit detection I'm still getting (and probably a little b/c it's bots I'm playing against), but the insane ease I have of surviving against two or sometimes even 3 saber users with just my fists and feet seems unrealistic. No single person, all else being equal, should be able to take out three saber users who match him in ability with just grapples, punches, and kicks. I'm not sure how to get around that, but the dodge makes you nearly invincible if you're half-way decent at normal manual dodges.

Is the feint system still present? I couldn't get it to work at all.

razorace
03-03-2004, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by Master_Keralys
Now, maybe it's just me doing something wrong, but cg_sabermelee doesn't seem to work at all; it's doing the stupid "Let's make it a text chat" thing instead of a command. Is it just me screwing something up or is there actually something wrong with it?

It is "ojp_sabermelee". I'm pretty sure I listed it correctly in the cvar listing. Where is it listed as cg_sabermelee?

After playing around with it this much, I haven't noticed but a few major bugs. First, even with the settings all set at least where razor and the others have been having success, my disgusting saber passthru without damage is still happening, more so with two or staff sabers than with single, but still there will all of 'em.

Well, there's probably a couple of things causing it. For one, I just discovered a pretty nasty bug in my RealTrace coding.

Secondly, to prevent nick deaths (IE deaths from a series of tiny hits) I've configured the game to use a small amount of fatigue to stop it without doing any dodge animations. I'll try making the player do the dodge animations when this happens. maybe it will help.

Obviously the bots are screwy, so I'm taking that into account (that's all I can play against for now). Even so, I'd stand there with my saber off and just watch several different bots just hack like mad at me and see the pretty little trails go through me and take no damage. It's almost like it's doing dodge code - but without the animation or the meter dropping. Not sure on that one.

See above. what is your sv_fps set to?

The other big problem that may or may not need to be addressed within this release is that the grapple moves are seriously overpowered. I could just run around in melee mode and annihilate Jedi Master-level saber user bots with ease. The grapples (the forward and standing still are ridiculously easy to land) destroy the people, and there doesn't seem to be any way out. On the other hand, it's nearly impossible to land the head-knee bashing back grapple ever. Some balance there would help immensely.

Really? I've always had a hell of a time landing grapple moves since you can't move or turn while doing it. Maybe I should unlock the view and allow the player to move a LITTLE bit. However, in exhange, we need a balancer. Maybe make non-attack moves with the saber do attack level damage to melee attackers? Or maybe not allow melee attackers to dodge?

Admiral -
go check the readme, but I'm pretty sure that all of those are in Basic. Hit detection might be the only one that isn't... As far as the bots go, they weren't programmed to use this system, so the fact that they're working at all is enough for me.

Exactly. I'm not planning on improving the saber hit detection code in Basic because the hit detection IS part of the gameplay to a degree. But you can always just boost the sv_fps....

And, after playing it this much, I think there definitely needs to be a difference between Force and Fatigue.

I disagree. Namely because the movies seem to indicate that Jedi intentionally don't use excessively during saber combat. I beleive this is because they are using their contentration mainly for saber combat vs using Force powers and because using the Force heavily obviously drains your strength.

Finally, I'm not sure I like the current parry system as well. I liked the manual block better. Perhaps some combo of the two would be better?

Any suggestions? I can't really think of a way to have both without coding in some sort of toggle between the two.

razorace
03-03-2004, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by Soruss
I'm pretty sure it was at 100. Is it possible to disable the rolling? It bothers me enough that I'd say I wouldn't bother playing MP against anyone with dodge rolling. I'd prefer that an automated system doesn't have such rash control over my movement. I can roll to dodge quite well on my own =P On that note, maybe rolling should take fatigue? Maybe some of the special jumping moves might take fatigue instead of force, or maybe just jumping in general might take a bit of fatigue? Might stop people from randomly jumping around. Although one of the fun things about JK2 is turning on speed and jumping around the levels. Sorry, random splurge of ideas.

If you were truely skilled enough to dodge all your attacks manually, you wouldn't be Dodge Rolling. :D And jumping and stuff already drains Fatigue. Don't worry, I'll mess with the system a bit to prevent you from falling off cliffs and such.

I'll try setting it higher. Would a cvar for the damage done to the dodge meter be a possibility?

It's possible but I'm not planning on it. There's simply too many varibles and I don't want to create a gamer hell by having too many cvars for server admins to screw up.

Master_Keralys
03-03-2004, 08:46 PM
That would explain the problem. It is listed as "ojp_sabermelee" in the cvar list. However, in the OJP readme, it's listed as "cg_sabermelee".

If you've got the bug isolated, I'm not worried about the passthru issue. Implementing a dodge anim should help a little, I think. Maybe just implement the old MOTF anim's in that particular situation, only scaled down or reduced.

My sv_fps are set to 50 the first time, 100 the second. I can try it even higher and see how much it does, but it's not seeming to make a lot of difference.

Really? I've always had a hell of a time landing grapple moves since you can't move or turn while doing it. Maybe I should unlock the view and allow the player to move a LITTLE bit. However, in exhange, we need a balancer. Maybe make non-attack moves with the saber do attack level damage to melee attackers? Or maybe not allow melee attackers to dodge?


It just takes a little practice to get the forward and still ones, at least against bots. The back ones with the head-to-knee bash are a pain in the neck to land. I don't like the idea of not allowing melee attackers to dodge, if anything their dodge would be better in real life b/c they don't have a saber to avoid. I do like making the idle saber hit them worse.

OKay, on the fatigue part. I'd like it the other way, but I can totally see where you're coming from and it's fine with me.

I can't see any way around that either. Perhaps what you're doing for the parry right now could be wired in as the autoblock system you were discussing, dependent on dodge; it uses those animations, whichever is best, to do the block as a parry without or with reduced bonus (and the bonus level reduction could be based on how much dodge remains). And then the manual blocking could be like it was before.

razorace
03-03-2004, 08:48 PM
Is the feint system still present? I couldn't get it to work at all. [/B]

Yep, it's just not very intuitive at this point. This has been corrected for the next beta.

razorace
03-03-2004, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by Master_Keralys
I can't see any way around that either. Perhaps what you're doing for the parry right now could be wired in as the autoblock system you were discussing, dependent on dodge; it uses those animations, whichever is best, to do the block as a parry without or with reduced bonus (and the bonus level reduction could be based on how much dodge remains). And then the manual blocking could be like it was before.

Actually that was the case right before I changed it. Unfortunately, the autoblock really got in the way of making accurate attacks.

Master_Keralys
03-03-2004, 10:11 PM
Ah. I didn't realize that. If there's any way to get around that, I think it worked better. Even with only a half hour of playing it seemed to function more realistically. I rarely had it do an autoblock, so my blocks were fine. Were you saying that it screwed the player's attacks? Or the attacker's attacks? I personally found it more intuitive than the current system with the odd parry stuff. Perhaps keep the parry bonus within the first second of assuming a block position (so that you can't just hold down the block like you can in b3 w/o much penalty) after that it's okay but has a higher likelihood of getting knocked back by good attacks.

I think it'll be easier to do the feint system that way as well; it was really tough with b3 and pretty much impossible with b4 (was it even really in b4?)

JediLiberator
03-03-2004, 10:50 PM
Correct me if Im wrong, but if you can parry saber strikes why do you even need dodge? You can block saber hits, jump clear of explosives and deflect energy blasts. Why even put in dodge? Wouldn't that just add to your headaches?

razorace
03-04-2004, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by JediLiberator
Correct me if Im wrong, but if you can parry saber strikes why do you even need dodge? You can block saber hits, jump clear of explosives and deflect energy blasts. Why even put in dodge? Wouldn't that just add to your headaches?

It's a gameplay mechinic. Mainly so we can boost the damage to lethal levels and still be able to play the game.

razorace
03-04-2004, 07:43 AM
OJP Enhanced v0.0.2b5 (http://ojp.jediknight.net/files/betas/ojp_enhanced_002b5.zip)

- Fixed a major bug in the Real Trace function code.

- Fixed bug preventing saber bounces from occurring.

- idle sabers don't go into bounce anymore.

- added "bot_fps" cvar. This controls the fps of the bot ai code so you can raise the server fps without increasing the bot ai's. defaults to 20 (fps).

- fixed partial dodge math errors.

- Faking system tweaking:
- to abort an attack, simply let go of the attack button.
- to perform a fake hold down attack + block + movement key for the attack you wish to use. You need to already have started/be in an attack for this to work.

- Force Fall starting fall speed tweaked

- Fixed Bug in impact (fall) damage code logic. Client 0 was getting free pass. I beleive this is due Raven accidently leaving some SP code in MP. (BugFix3)

- Saber Clash Effects now use the saber wound debounce (g_saberDmgDelay_Wound) to prevent effect spazzing at different sv_fps.

Pnut_Man
03-04-2004, 09:05 PM
Okay, i've given a couple versions of the OJP enhanced a run through, and i'm encountering some problems:

1) I can't hit (do any damage), nor get hit myself...
I know it's nothing like the weird JA saber system, supposidely realistic, but i'm either swinging through their bodies or seeing Dodge in the works. Seriously, i've stood with my saber off in front of half a dozen bots--TRYING TO DIE!!! I couldn't get 1 kill or even be killed myself in about 15 mins of gaming against 6 bots.
2) The saber animation speed. I've tried changing it back to '1', and it's normal for the most part--except I'll see the same .5 speed for many of the yellow attacks. Feels like the game is in slomo, hehe...

Yeah, I checked through the cvars hoping I could figure something out...no luck though :( Am I missing something?

razorace
03-04-2004, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by Pnut_Master
1) I can't hit (do any damage), nor get hit myself...
I know it's nothing like the weird JA saber system, supposidely realistic, but i'm either swinging through their bodies or seeing Dodge in the works. Seriously, i've stood with my saber off in front of half a dozen bots--TRYING TO DIE!!! I couldn't get 1 kill or even be killed myself in about 15 mins of gaming against 6 bots.

Make sure that your sv_fps and g_saberDmgDelay_Wound is set to the suggested values in OJP_SaberSys.txt

2) The saber animation speed. I've tried changing it back to '1', and it's normal for the most part--except I'll see the same .5 speed for many of the yellow attacks. Feels like the game is in slomo, hehe...

It sometimes takes a while for the cvar to take effect. Other than that, it's probably just your imagination. The code has the saber animation speed applied all at the same time so if one has changed, they all have changed.

Yeah, I checked through the cvars hoping I could figure something out...no luck though :( Am I missing something? [/B][/QUOTE]

keshire
03-05-2004, 03:54 AM
The cvar that does slow motion deaths in duel interferes majorly with something.

This is what I've encountered with it on.

Random slow downs
Disconnection errors
If I restart the match it endlessly loops the load level.

razorace
03-05-2004, 04:26 AM
yeah, the MP game engine doesn't like it when you change the time scale. I think that's just a flaw with the engine.

Master_Keralys
03-05-2004, 01:51 PM
I'll be testing b5 later today; I had a thought on the saber system, though. What if you went back to how it was before (manual blocking, parry as part of Dodge) but modified it so:

When the player isn't blocking it, it tries to go into a dodge sidestep or something like that. If it's still going to hit, then it tries a parry, and if that still doesn't work, only then does it go to a Dodge Roll.

This would drastically reduce the probability of the dreaded Dodge Roll (and once you finish tweaking it it shouldn't matter). It would also mean that the parry system would be less likely to interfere with attacks. It does line up with the SW universe, too. The Jedi Knight Vergere once pointed out that "The master of defense is one who is never in the place attacked."

My only other suggestion would be to simply go back to the previous programming and drastically reduce the probability of a parry being successful. As I noted before, I never really had it do an autoblock except once or twice.

I too have gotten Disconnection errors - on my own server, at that... a little odd. I'll be back later after I've finished my homework and can do some testing.

razorace
03-05-2004, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by Master_Keralys
[B]I'll be testing b5 later today; I had a thought on the saber system, though. What if you went back to how it was before (manual blocking, parry as part of Dodge) but modified it so:

When the player isn't blocking it, it tries to go into a dodge sidestep or something like that. If it's still going to hit, then it tries a parry, and if that still doesn't work, only then does it go to a Dodge Roll.

This would drastically reduce the probability of the dreaded Dodge Roll (and once you finish tweaking it it shouldn't matter). It would also mean that the parry system would be less likely to interfere with attacks. It does line up with the SW universe, too. The Jedi Knight Vergere once pointed out that "The master of defense is one who is never in the place attacked."

My only other suggestion would be to simply go back to the previous programming and drastically reduce the probability of a parry being successful. As I noted before, I never really had it do an autoblock except once or twice.

Unfortunately, the problem is that it's not possible to accurately predict saber attack hits before they happen.

Well, actually, I just had an idea. I might be able to create a very fancy function that does some level of very complicated prediction to determine where sabers are going to be. But it might be too CPU costly. We will see.

I too have gotten Disconnection errors - on my own server, at that... a little odd. I'll be back later after I've finished my homework and can do some testing.

When do you get the disconnect errors? I know that it sometimes does that on my local when I can the saber animation speed.

JediLiberator
03-06-2004, 04:49 PM
I finally got the chance to try the beta. I have to say I was disappointed. I like the fact you can dodge and block, but the attack are slow. I was using blue and I felt like I was crawling by. Also the whole deal where the force recharges only when you walk is pointless. I know you want to prevent spamming of katas and such, but I don't think this was the way to do it. You really earned a skioff(slap) in my opinion. So I think you need to speed the animation up and fix the force, if only a little. This does NOT have the feel of a real saber fight. You're on the right track, but I think you took the ideas just a little too far. Keep it up though. I'm sure you'll get the hang of it. Eventually.

Master_Keralys
03-06-2004, 05:01 PM
Jedi Liberator: use the saberanimspeed cvar to alter your speed; I can't remember at the moment whether it's cg_saberanimspeed or g_saberanimspeed; it should be in the cvar list in the distro. 1 is normal, .5 is half, etc.

Originally posted by razorace
Well, actually, I just had an idea. I might be able to create a very fancy function that does some level of very complicated prediction to determine where sabers are going to be. But it might be too CPU costly. We will see.

Good luck; you're gonna need it. I hope that works out, though, it might make things run smoother.

When do you get the disconnect errors? I know that it sometimes does that on my local when I can the saber animation speed.

Yeah, the really weird part is that it does it sometimes even when I'm not running OJP. It did it to me back on JO as well at times; I think it's just something weird with my PC, thinking about it. But as far as I can recall, it's done it the most on OJP when I've been messing with the saberanimspeed. You said that seems to be a problem with the MP engine?

razorace
03-06-2004, 06:05 PM
Yeah, the really weird part is that it does it sometimes even when I'm not running OJP. It did it to me back on JO as well at times; I think it's just something weird with my PC, thinking about it. But as far as I can recall, it's done it the most on OJP when I've been messing with the saberanimspeed. You said that seems to be a problem with the MP engine?

Yeah it seems to be. I have no clue why it occurs but it does seem to even out if you just wait a few seconds or kill your character.

Jedi Liberator: use the saberanimspeed cvar to alter your speed; I can't remember at the moment whether it's cg_saberanimspeed or g_saberanimspeed; it should be in the cvar list in the distro. 1 is normal, .5 is half, etc.

Yeah, both issues you described have cvars controlling them. Please consult the ojp_sabersys.txt for details.

Teancum
03-07-2004, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by razorace
Yeah, I think that has to do with Teancum's menu enhancements. I've already asked him to look into it.


Ya, it should only do that in MP. But, it shouldn't matter in MP, because you're already in a mod :p . I will look at it when I get time, but it will be at least a month, at which time I'll probably add the OJP cvars to the menu system.

Noxrepere
03-08-2004, 03:26 AM
First of all, great job so far on all the work and effort you've put into the mod.:)

I've been playing with the beta and noticed a few things here and there, so I thought I'd post them. This might run a little long.

Also, I've only tested with bots and I have the following cvars set:

g_saberanimspeed .75
sv_fps 100
g_saberDMGDelay_Wound 100

For me the title for the Jedi Master Game type doesn't show up in the menu, although Holocron FFA and CTY are present. I don't know if that's just a thing with the altered menu files, and the game type is still playable so it's not a big deal, just a cosmetic thing.

For me the idle lightsaber was getting stuck in the wall when walking by or turning when the blade tries to pass through.

This isn't really a bug, but Force doesn't regenerate if you crouch and move forward, unless you also hold down the walk button (if always run is on). Holding down the walk button seems a little redundant in this situation since I seem to move the same speed either way, so this might also not be a big deal. Just thought I'd bring it up if you didn't know about it.

This next one isn't really specifically a problem with the beta, but I had dismemberment on in multiplayer (g_dismember 85 and cg_dismember 85). I had included 7 bots plus myself. Some of the bots were Jedi Outcast models I was using in multiplayer. At first the bots that had surfaces turned off using surf files from JO were working, but after several kills suddenly the hidden surfaces started to appear on the JO models. Some surfaces were textured correctly others had the grey/white "missing texture" surface, others wouldnít display any part of the surface but damage marks from weapons would appear floating in mid air where these would be if they werenít hidden. Some surfaces would also appear highlighted when ďSenseĒ was used or during the animations when characters perform the dodge moves. This also happened with my character as well, I was a JO model.

After that started to happen, I tried being a JA model with hidden surfaces (Female Twilek) to see if they would also make an appearance and they did not.

I wanted to see if this was a problem just with the mod, so I then tried base JA with dismemberment on with the same settings and the same hidden surfaces were appearing. So then I tried turning dismemberment off (both settings set to 0 obviously) and restarted the game. The hidden surfaces did NOT appear anymore.

Anyway, that turned out not to be a bug in the mod but in base JA. I don't know if you can do anything about that, or if that's part of the game engine and inaccessible to change, or if it was just my computer. Worst case scenario dismemberment can just be left off to avoid the ugly models. I apologize in advance if that has been mentioned before, but I haven't seen it anywhere.

I was also wondering if the dodge effect takes over rather than blocking when fighting saber to saber. When fighting the bots I would swing at them and they would dodge, and they would swing at me and I would dodge. Hardly any blocking was taking place.

Also, it is very difficult to kill gun wielders (and I have g_saberdamagescale set to 2) because they constantly dodge every saber swing. It just seems to present a problem when I go after these bots, so it might possibly be a good idea to disable dodge for gun wielders, unless this is only a problem with bots. Balance wise I think it just gives gun users too much of an advantage over saber users, since they can dodge the saber swings and still continue to shoot and hit the saber user (especially if the gun is one that the sabers donít block well or at all). This is also going to be more of a problem for people who donít have the saber damage scaled up.

As far as the Force use goes, the regeneration only when walking and standing still, works for the most part, I just noticed a few areas that felt like they could use some refinement, but other than that it seems to serve its purpose rather well.

It seemed to create an issue when, for example a bot with the repeater or rocket launcher would shoot and I would try using Push to send the projectiles away. After several pushes I would then close in on the bot and try to swing the saber but it would be an incredibly slow swing because my Force pool had been depleted too much. Then itís a bummer to be shot mid-swing with my saber out to the side during a slowed down attack. (This would also happen more often when I had to jump to reach a high place, and then got attacked with repeater/rocket launcher.)

Force regeneration also comes into play during lightsaber duels. Many times Iíve been fighting against a bot (or two) and make multiple attempts to kill them, but it takes a long time because of the dodging. (It might just be a matter of adjusting the dodgeregen cvar to a higher level so that it takes longer, I just thought of that while I was typing.)

This goes back to the blocking issue from above. After making multiple swings at a bot, and they constantly dodge, they donít seem to block attacks with their saber so they dodge a lot and still donít run out of dodge meter. After fighting for so long my attacks started slowing down, even though I was walking, because my Force had depleted.

I tried not attacking to give my Force time to regenerate, but then whenever the bot attacked me Iíd automatically do a dodge, which begins depleting my Dodge meter. I didnít specifically count but I seemed to dodge 8 out of 10 attacks and only blocked the remaining 2. The dodge feature works well, but during the duels I think I spent too much time being thrown around and not enough time clashing sabers.

Some Force powers seem like they take too much energy away from the Force pool when it takes so long for it to regenerate (I believe my forceregen cvar was set at the 200). Maybe the amounts required for certain more passive powers should be taken down so they can be used but still not abused. Having other more aggressive powers, like lightning, that depletes the Force pool rapidly help to prevent them from being abused. They still function, but it helps cut back on the number of times they get used (with bots at least).

That, like everything else, probably requires testing to make certain that it could be balanced while still maintaining the integrity of the game play.

Again, I was only able to play against bots, so if certain issues donít really factor into the game play when playing against humans just let me know. And if I missed any cvars that will already fix any of these problems I apologize. I think I read and changed all the important ones.

All in all the mod is making great progress, and itís clear that a lot of effort has been put into it and constantly making improvements. Great Work! Sorry that was long, but I wanted to make sure to explain it all so youíd know what I meant.

Thanks!:)

Gotaiken
03-08-2004, 10:41 AM
does anyone else here feel that the feinting system is somewhat awkward. ive been noticing that it slows down your counterattack time because you have to focus on the animation rather than the footwork of guiding an attack into the enemy.

JediLiberator
03-09-2004, 12:35 AM
I wonder if maybe you should try a beta without dodge and have the animations speeds set to about .75-.8 then make it so blocking cost more energy when you run. That will make people slow down in dueling. Just a thought.

razorace
03-09-2004, 02:57 AM
Originally posted by JediLiberator
I wonder if maybe you should try a beta without dodge and have the animations speeds set to about .75-.8 then make it so blocking cost more energy when you run. That will make people slow down in dueling. Just a thought.

Well, running while attacking already greatly increases your chances of screwing up on saber impact.

But I agree, I think we need to add in some additional costs for parrying while standing and running. Probably a Dodge cost.

And you can manually change the swing speed to whatever you want. I beleive the default is .7

WhiteShdw
03-11-2004, 11:40 AM
I've tried the latest Beta. You have some very interesting ideas. I've only played against bots so far and haven't been able to kill any of them(I suck). If anyone in Europe wants to play a little 1 on 1, let me know(PM), I've got a test server ready to go.

I think i still have to get used to how the play system works now, because it's been very difficult to play this thing, with the auto dodge and the attack interrupt system. I guess I'm not used to keeping the attack button pressed for a long time when attacking, so whenever I do try to attack, it never follows through with the swing.

So adding this to the auto dodge system, it makes we want to toss my PC out the window for my inability to kill even the most moronic bots. :)

Right now I don't feel like i'm in control of my character at all.

Suggestions(excuse me if I'm mentioning things here that you already planning to include in the future. I haven't really kept up to date on this project):

Speed up the attack/interrupt system. Right now, coming out of basic JA, i'm doing more unintentional interrupts/feints than attacks. This is very annoying.
No more auto dodging. I'm glad someone finally introduced a block button, but automatic dodging is just as wrong as automatic blocking in JA is. Map this to a button.
Don't overwrite standard JA controls. You mapped blocking to secondary attack. Why not just make a seperate block command button?

keshire
03-11-2004, 12:04 PM
# Speed up the attack/interrupt system. Right now, coming out of basic JA, i'm doing more unintentional interrupts/feints than attacks. This is very annoying.
# No more auto dodging. I'm glad someone finally introduced a block button, but automatic dodging is just as wrong as automatic blocking in JA is. Map this to a button.
# Don't overwrite standard JA controls. You mapped blocking to secondary attack. Why not just make a seperate block command button?

You'll get used to it plus it lets you break out of chained moves.

I like that idea but I really don't know how feasable it is. Currently I think it kicks into effect right as your hit.

Because people would then map the block back to the secondary mouse. You can bind it to whatever you like.

either way coding-wise it has to stay as alt_attack. because there's only a few buttons you can actually hold down.

razorace
03-11-2004, 06:16 PM
Speed up the attack/interrupt system. Right now, coming out of basic JA, i'm doing more unintentional interrupts/feints than attacks. This is very annoying.
No more auto dodging. I'm glad someone finally introduced a block button, but automatic dodging is just as wrong as automatic blocking in JA is. Map this to a button.
Don't overwrite standard JA controls. You mapped blocking to secondary attack. Why not just make a seperate block command button?


Speed up the attack/interrupt system? What do you mean?

You can't really anticipate when you screw up fast enough to avoid the attack as is, right? So, how is mapping autoDodge to a button going to help when you're never going to be able to press it in time?

WhiteShdw
03-11-2004, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by razorace
Speed up the attack/interrupt system? What do you mean?


Well, right now, i have to keep attack pressed for a certain amount of time for the swing to follow through. I'd prefer it if this time was lowered so that I wouldn't do as many unintentional interrupted moves, like i'm doing now. But I might need to get used to it ofcourse. It feels very unnatural right now.

You can't really anticipate when you screw up fast enough to avoid the attack as is, right? So, how is mapping autoDodge to a button going to help when you're never going to be able to press it in time?

Why would i want to dodge if i screw up? If I screw up i deserve to take a hit! Dodging shouldn't help crap players like me. We deserve to die.

But seriously, dodging should just be an alternative to blocking, where instead of blocking, the player avoids the attack and moves into a more favourable position to his opponent. Like for example his back or his sides. This is how dodging is used in most fighting games.

So if someone starts attacking me I can block/parry the attack and wait for an opening or just dodge the attack completely and strike him from behind or something. If i don't do either of these, I should just take a hit.

razorace
03-12-2004, 02:41 AM
Well, right now, i have to keep attack pressed for a certain amount of time for the swing to follow through. I'd prefer it if this time was lowered so that I wouldn't do as many unintentional interrupted moves, like i'm doing now. But I might need to get used to it ofcourse. It feels very unnatural right now.[/quote]

Right now, it's entirely based on weither or not the button is being pressed when the code processes the transistion from one attack animation to another. I can't really think of a way to improve on it without totally messing up the ability to do chained together moves.

If you want to learn on how to make it easier, just watch your player while you start the attack. The abort-out points are right at the the end of the wind up and after the end of the attack swing.

If you simply want to do a single attack, just hold down the button until the you finish the wind up, and then simply let go of the attack button.

WhiteShdw
03-12-2004, 03:34 PM
Finally had a chance to test with a friend of mine last night. I'm starting to get used to the attacking a bit. Still don't like the way dodging works. My friend said it was like fighting pudding :).

Trueview is fantastic. Plain and simple. It's kinda like the First person cheat that was available in JK2 MP, but better. I especially like the trueroll, trueflip and truespin cvars, but i think playing that way is gonna make me puke over my keyboard :). Have you considered making Trueview the default view for gun users as well?

I noticed that lightsaber users still use autoblock when it comes to defending against gun blasts, but i guess you're focusing on saber vs saber combat right now. Still i would like to see the block button used there as well and an aiming system for deflecting back the blaster bolts to it's owner. That doesn't happen nearly enough in standard JA.

I also noticed in Jedi vs Merc mode that Merc's also have the ability to dodge. I thought dodge was Force based and considering Merc's can't use Force that doesn't seem right. But I guess i'm wrong about it being Force based.

one, more thing. When defending and walking backwards the animation was really slow. It seemed as if i was gliding across the floor. I do have my server speed set a little bit higher that default so this does happen a bit naturally, but walking backwards seemed to have this problem a lot stronger than the other animations.

razorace
03-12-2004, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by WhiteShdw
Finally had a chance to test with a friend of mine last night. I'm starting to get used to the attacking a bit. Still don't like the way dodging works. My friend said it was like fighting pudding :).

Yeah, it needs some more work. I'll have to mess with it.

Have you considered making Trueview the default view for gun users as well?

I'm not going to make it the default but you can use it for the guns by switching one of the cvars.

I noticed that lightsaber users still use autoblock when it comes to defending against gun blasts, but i guess you're focusing on saber vs saber combat right now. Still i would like to see the block button used there as well and an aiming system for deflecting back the blaster bolts to it's owner. That doesn't happen nearly enough in standard JA.

Yeah, I'll have to do that eventually.

I also noticed in Jedi vs Merc mode that Merc's also have the ability to dodge. I thought dodge was Force based and considering Merc's can't use Force that doesn't seem right. But I guess i'm wrong about it being Force based.

Yeah, that needs to be worked on too.

one, more thing. When defending and walking backwards the animation was really slow. It seemed as if i was gliding across the floor. I do have my server speed set a little bit higher that default so this does happen a bit naturally, but walking backwards seemed to have this problem a lot stronger than the other animations.

Yep, I know. the walk animations, especially the backwards one, haven't been tweaked for the new movement speed yet.

rut-wa jodar
03-13-2004, 11:27 AM
Is it possible to increase the amount saber to saber collision detection ? JA`s single saber combat still feels very hit and miss. I like to see lots of blocking and parrying in single saber v`s single saber combat.


OJP has certainly improved JA`s combat, IMO. keep up the great work :D

razorace
03-13-2004, 12:04 PM
Well, the sv_fps tweaking along with my realtrace coding helps dramatically. However, there is one more technique that I can think of that would definately help. However, I'm worried that there would be a nasty fps hit. I'll have to try it when I have time.

razorace
03-14-2004, 09:36 AM
Ok, just a reminder to the loyal OJP beta testers that I haven't forgotten about you. I've been pretty busy with RL stuff and been working on getting some new fancy features ready to go.

lightofdarkness
03-14-2004, 01:27 PM
I've noticed there's still alot of pass-thru, even with sv_fps 50 and maxpackets at 50. I actually noticed better detection on lower FPS levels ie. 25.

Block and parry are barely usable against horizontal strong wings (as well as verticle in most cases) and almost useless against dual saber users. I have the anim speed at .75 because the other speeds are unplayable.

I like the fatigue thing, constant attackers soon find themselves in a whole mess of trouble after a few moments :)

Noxrepere
03-15-2004, 09:22 AM
I noticed a few more things when testing the mod:

I tried a CTY game on the Hoth Wastland level (comes with JA) and it just defaulted to CTF, but it showed up in the CTY map list. I don't know if that's fixable or not. Other maps showed up as well (actually all the CTF maps show up as selectable in CTY). I didn't test any of the other maps at the time.

In this same game I noticed that bots would be a big no-no during a CTF game with their current walking settings. They take the flag and then take forever to return it because they never run at all. It might not be a big deal if people don't normally play CTF with bots (that might be on the list of bot A.I. fixes that you said you were going to attempt RazorAce).

I was having someone throw Thermal Detonators at me and the game would automatically use Force Push to knock them away. That was cool, except then I ran out of Force from the pool and couldn't jump where I was trying to go. I don't know if the auto-push was intentional or not but it was kind of cool. It's just that having the Force regenerate so slow (or not at all when running) would lead to a strategy of throwing Thermal Detonators (other explosives might lead to the same auto-push I don't know because the bots weren't tossing them) at someone to deplete their Force pool and then attack them. That would especially be a bummer if you were using a saber and had your Force depleted that way, because then you'd automatically be swinging slowly leading to a quick death.

It's also very hard to kill the flag carrier with a lightsaber since they dodge so consistently.

Also, it's possible to start a CTF and CTY game with no time limit AND no capture limit. That might present a problem if someone were to start a game with the settings like that accidentally. I didn't set them like that I just started a game to test something real quick and noticed that afterwards, so it might happen if something gets set to default. I just tested and it happens in regular JA as well. Maybe if it isn't possible to change any code for that a simple warning when they are both zero would suffice (unless there is any reason why someone would want both to be zero, in which case the warning would work best).

Sorry, if that was off topic. I really don't try to be, honest.

I hope that helps!

P.S. - I'm still curious to know if anyone else has the same problems with dismemberment (that I mentioned before) and if there would be any way of fixing that. (or if I'm just doing something wrong:confused: )

razorace
03-15-2004, 06:50 PM
Well, remember that the CTY gamemode has flags that look very similar to CTF except for the Y thingy sitting on top of the flag.

And, yes, the force push thing is intentional, but you have a great point about it thou. We'll have to think of something to count that.

And the no score/time limit thing is almost certainly something from basejka. I don't remember any changes being made there.

Noxrepere
03-15-2004, 08:43 PM
I checked the CTY gametype again, just to be sure, and it seemed to just default to CTF.

I looked at the flag and there was no yslamari on it and when I retrieved the opponents flag I could still use Force powers.

I checked the about tab in the upper left after hitting esc and it says CTF next to gametype.

On the loading screen when the map is loading it says CTF there as well.

I did this in one of the CTY maps from JO, so I know the gametype would normally work on this map. (Is enabling this gametype supposed to allow CTY gameplay on maps that were only built with CTF in mind, i.e. the base JA CTF maps? Just curioius so I know for future testing.)

Oh, and the 0 time and capture thing is from base JA. I checked. I just didn't know if it was a big deal or not.



Also, several posts back there was a discussion about adding manual blocking for laser blasts as well. I think that having a block button for lasers could work, but possibly have the saber still autoblock the lasers but not bounce them back at the shooter. Pressing the block button at the appropriate time right before the laser arrives could then function as directing the laser back at the shooter. A margin of error on the amount of time required for the block button to be pressed before the lasers arrive might be neccesary to componsate for lag, but that would definately require testing.

If a block button had to be held down to block, people would just want to go around with the button held down all the time which would be silly and pointless. :rolleyes:

Plus, allowing saber users to passively block lasers without directing them back at the shooter would be movie like (not that everything always has to be movie like). The Jedi in the films seem to block incoming lasers more like a reflex but have to focus to direct the lasers where they want them to go.

Making saber blocking of lasers too much more difficult, like having to press block for every individual laser, would allow the saber users to be overcome too easily. Including a block feature for lasers, as mentioned above, could serve to add more skill required without making it a hassle or a disadvantage for saber users.:D

I think the block button for the saber battles in the earlier betas worked quite well. Why was that replaced with the parrying feature? (I haven't yet got the hang of the parrying system.)

JediLiberator
03-15-2004, 10:24 PM
Okay tried the mod again. I have it on my own computer so I can mess with the settings. I had the saber animation speed at about a .9. This definetely made the dueling a little more enjoyable. A few points I think I'll make.
1) Blocking and dodge are pretty good as far as I can tell. I had a single blade and was fending off a saber staffer for a decent while, so that wasn't bad. I think .85-.9 is the "sweet spot" for the anims speed. At least I was doing fine in it.
2) The whole walking to recharge force energy is annoying. What I suggest is replace the dodge meter with a fatigue meter. This meter gets drained by pretty much everything you do,attacks, blocks, dodges, pretty much any major physical action, but recharges more quickly if you are walking rather than running. That way you can keep the fast fluid pace of the game up and you can still limit the player's pace a bit to make saber fights more movie like. Also you can use the fatigue meter for special attacks if you want. That would prevent kata spamming if you were careful about it.
3) Oh and increase the walk speed to a canter. Look at a fencing bout if you need an idea of what Im talking about. They don't run, but they don't stroll around either.
4) I didn't seem able to do any katas or special moves. How do you do those now that the secondary attack is gone? Just wondering if they had been dumped.
Keep up the good work dudes!
edit: on a short term note, drop down the amount of dodging a player can do a little bit. Duels that stretch out too long can get stale.

Master_Keralys
03-16-2004, 02:46 PM
Okay, I'm finally back after about a week of computer problems and stuff. I've only been able to do a little more testing, but I ran some SP testing (as none of the testers seem to have looked at that much yet).

I like the new menus; however, a little better explanation of certain things would be helpful. For example, how does the "All + Enemy Jedi Dodge" work for the SP dismemberment? Furthermore, I got a "couldn't write to something.cfg" error when I tried modifying that.

There are also serious problems with the SP saber selection menu. The Skywalker, Retribution, and Stinger names do not show up, and the view simply locks on to the last saber selected before those reach that point.

Moreover, the menu does not show any additional hilts. As an example, I recently downloaded the <A> hilt pack, and it shows up just fine in the regular SP windows, but it does not show up at all in the OJP SP window.

Otherwise, everything seemed to be running smoothly; the shadows and everything else are working nicely; well done.

Finally, I had a thought regarding the saber sys. As several more people have commented on the previous saber system with the manual block (which I had given up on) another idea came to mind. Why not make it a server side command that is selected in the "New Game" setup screen, where you select options like the weapons allowed and whatnot. It can then be displayed as a "Manual Blocking" game or a "Parry Button" game or something like that. Again, I know you're busy and may not have the time or desire to do this, but it would allow both groups to be satisfied. Along the same lines, server admins could put on their server names (if it's not an automatic thing) what the saber anim speed is.

razorace
03-18-2004, 02:54 AM
OJP Enhanced v0.0.2b6 (http://ojp.jediknight.net/files/betas/ojp_enhanced_002b6.zip)

Mainly just a port of some bugfixs and the Asteroids code to Enhanced.

razorace
03-18-2004, 03:19 AM
OJP Basic v0.0.5b1 (http://ojp.jediknight.net/files/betas/ojp_basic_005b1.zip)

This is just the no-gameplay changes version of the lastest Enhanced beta.

Pnut_Man
03-19-2004, 02:08 AM
Just wanted to add this--
I was having the 'saber passes through body w/ no damage' issue with version 5 of Enhanced. Frustrated me like hell, considering I tried adjusting all of the cvars you listed...
Downloaded version 6--Load it up--Works beautifully.
I'm really impressed with how far Enhanced has come, and just want to say you're doing an amazing job thus far.
Definitely going to be my favorite mod ;)

El Sitherino
03-19-2004, 02:35 AM
Yeah I had the same problem with enhanced version 5 but 6 corrected it. I used the basic version also, and only one word comes to mind. Brilliant. pure brilliance.

razorace
03-19-2004, 04:54 AM
Thanks. I'm glad that Beta 6 is working better for you guys. However, I honestly don't think I did anything to affect that, but if it works, it works. :)

Noxrepere
03-25-2004, 10:34 AM
I was thinking about the dodge ability and all the related issues with it and came up with some ideas.

First of all, maybe it would make it a little more functional to make dodging more like an additional Force power. (Force Foresight or something.)

That way it can be enabled when someone wants to use it but disabled, for instance, if someone is near any ledge and doesn't want to worry about Dodge rolling to death.

The new meter in the upper left could still be used as its base of operations though. Toggling the Force power on would draw from the Force pool at the start (a one time deal so it doesn't keep draining from the Force pool). Then when the player does any dodges, as a result of having the power on, it would draw away from the dodge meter.

The issue with players auto Pushing the incoming explosives (thermal detonators, rockets, etc...) could be tacked onto this power as well. Once the dodging power is activated if the player senses the explosives coming it could do the same auto push but draw from the dodge meter instead of the Force Pool effectively leaving the player with that Force to still jump and use as they please.

This way people who don't want to have their player do the dodges at all don't have to have it enabled and the people who do enable it would get several dodges out of it before the meter depleted and they were left to defend themselves naturally.

Anyways, I think that was the rough outline of the idea and it probably needs some refining (definately testing:D ) but I think it would add to the overall playing experience.

Thoughts? Comments?

razorace
03-25-2004, 07:15 PM
I don't see the point. Other than the issue with rolling off cliffs (which can be fixed with some trace scanning), there'd never be a reason to turn it off.

And I agree, the projectile push should take dodge power instead of force.

Noxrepere
03-26-2004, 05:53 AM
Well, the reason I was thinking that it would work better as a selectable ability was mainly because right now it throws me around a lot of the time.

There seem to be times when during my swing it kicks in and rolls me somewhere even though I was going to hit my opponent.

It currently seems to take a lot of control away because of the drastic result the dodge takes by rolling me away. There may be times when I would prefer to have the total control offered by choosing when to roll manually.

I like the feature. It does add another level of depth to the game play. I'm only saying that right now it takes a lot of control away for the entire duration of the round, and might serve better as something that can't be on all the time.

The Force Sight power allows for dodging sniper shots from the Tenloss Disruptor Rifle. The ability to dodge those shots isn't on all the time because then no one would ever get shot.

Currently, I can turn off my saber and know that if a saber wielding bot approaches me that I will not get hit. That might become kind of like a safety net for some people.

If the feature were amended somehow so that it was present in the game but not a major determining factor, I think it could be enabled all the time without causing major game play problems.

I'm not trying to be negative or condescending. Like I said, it's a great feature that I would like to see work, but I can see it being easily abused in its current state. Making it a half Force power/half physical ability that could only be enabled depending on current Force and Dodge meter statistics could serve to prevent that kind of abuse.

I'm just trying to help, so I hope you're not taking it the wrong way. I like where Enhanced is going with all the new additions and everything. I've been keeping an eye on its development and itís very apparent that you, and all the others involved in the project, have been working really hard. It would just be disappointing to see the mod overrun with people abusing features rather than using them.

Again, I'm not trying to give anything other than constructive criticism. I have great respect for the time, energy and effort that everyone has been putting into the project.

Keep up all the great work!:)

razorace
03-26-2004, 07:49 AM
No offense taken. :)

Personally, I'm hoping that when we massively boost the weapon damage and fix the Dodge Rolling issue, it will work pretty well.

Master_Keralys
04-05-2004, 03:15 PM
Sounds good. Who's been working on the menus and whatnot? Cause I figure I'll pm 'em with info on the SP menus that are so weirded out. Maybe six'll do it, I haven't had a chance to try it yet b/c I was out for two weeks, but...

Do you know of anyone interested in a comprehensive bot rework? B/c as is they're horrid and, as much as I love it, OJPE is just not worth playing for fun b/c I can't really play it with anyone. I'll keep testing and whatnot, but... if you know of anyone, I'll post a thread on the topic.

Noxrepere
04-05-2004, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by Master_Keralys
Do you know of anyone interested in a comprehensive bot rework? B/c as is they're horrid and, as much as I love it, OJPE is just not worth playing for fun b/c I can't really play it with anyone. I'll keep testing and whatnot, but... if you know of anyone, I'll post a thread on the topic.

RazorAce is working on bot improvements. I think he's totally reworking their logic and adding new features. It seems like a lot of work since they're pretty incompetent right now. :)

Thread right here:
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=124633

razorace
04-05-2004, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by Master_Keralys
Sounds good. Who's been working on the menus and whatnot? Cause I figure I'll pm 'em with info on the SP menus that are so weirded out. Maybe six'll do it, I haven't had a chance to try it yet b/c I was out for two weeks, but...

Post about it here. Teancum and I did most of them.

Do you know of anyone interested in a comprehensive bot rework? B/c as is they're horrid and, as much as I love it, OJPE is just not worth playing for fun b/c I can't really play it with anyone. I'll keep testing and whatnot, but... if you know of anyone, I'll post a thread on the topic.

Agreed, already on it. Progress is slow since I'm in the middle of my consulting job.

Master_Keralys
04-07-2004, 03:55 PM
Progress is slow since I'm in the middle of my consulting job. Not a problem, obviously. Post about it here. Teancum and I did most of them. As in, in this thread, or was that supposed to be a link? If it's here, I'll just quote my post earlier on it: There are also serious problems with the SP saber selection menu. The Skywalker, Retribution, and Stinger names do not show up, and the view simply locks on to the last saber selected before those reach that point.

Moreover, the menu does not show any additional hilts. As an example, I recently downloaded the <A> hilt pack, and it shows up just fine in the regular SP windows, but it does not show up at all in the OJP SP window. And in recent testing, I've also noticed that no other hilt pack functions, I'm not sure why. All the other menu stuff seems to be fine. Oh, actually: the saber-dismemberment stuff doesn't work either; it says that it's getting a write-protection error or something.

Everything else is looking good; I'll try beta 6 as soon as I get time from school again.

razorace
04-07-2004, 06:20 PM
That's a problem with conflicting menu files. It's a design flaw with Raven's SP code and there's nothing we can do about it other than manually add the addition sabers to the menus.

Master_Keralys
04-09-2004, 03:13 PM
All right. Is that something I could do without coding work, because I'd be more than happy to. I'll have a little time this weekend, so... If it just involves modifying one of the .sab files or something, I'll gladly do it.

razorace
04-09-2004, 05:55 PM
Yeah, I beleive there's a tutorial on the subject buried in the archives of this forum.

Hekx
04-11-2004, 11:39 PM
I have a question regarding the extra additional stances (Desann and Tavion).

Is there a cvar to disable both?

I went through the documentation only finding the version history indicating it had been added and nothing more.

razorace
04-12-2004, 02:15 AM
Nope, no cvar. I don't see a need for it.

Master_Keralys
04-13-2004, 04:03 PM
All right, I'll see if I can find that buried, archived thread and get to cracking on it; who knows when it'll be done (hopefully within a couple of weeks, but we'll see... depends on my school and work schedules).

As I haven't had a chance to play b6 yet: did you update the color thing for their stances? If not, my suggestion would be a purple and an orange, or something like that...

Manu
04-13-2004, 04:13 PM
Hi, i recognized some little Bugs with the german version of JA.

SP
-The Advanced Settings and the Controls -> Other/New Settings were not saved
-The Settings "Saber animation Speed" and "Corpsal Removal Time" are default nothing(no text)
-If i change Saber animation Speed to Normal and start or load a game its set back to Slow
-At the Screen where i can choose my lightsaber the new handholds havo no name

Why are several features not included in the sp mode?
(Dodge System, "bad" Katas removed, using the Lightsaber needs Force power, Force Power don't regenerate if i run or use the lightsaber)

MP
-If i loaded the Mod i saw in the Mod menu:
O
O
JO
instead of:
OJP: Basic...
OJP: Enhanced..
JA+ Mod v1.8

-I and the bots can't damage someone with the lightsaber.
Maybe my settings are wrong(left them default) or the dodge system works too good
-Don't know if it is, but the chance to met someone with the lightsaber should be the same if i walk and when i stay.

This Mod is going to be my favorite one....great work!
Sorry for my bad english, if you don't understand anything.....ask me

I forgott, if someone explains me how i could do the german translation

Manu

razorace
04-14-2004, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by Manu
SP
-The Advanced Settings and the Controls -> Other/New Settings were not saved
-If i change Saber animation Speed to Normal and start or load a game its set back to Slow
There's not much we can do that about. Unfortunately, these cvars don't have the archive flag.

-The Settings "Saber animation Speed" and "Corpsal Removal Time" are default nothing(no text)
That maybe something we can fix. Try talking to Teancum about it.

-At the Screen where i can choose my lightsaber the new handholds havo no name
I suspect that this is due to there not being a German translation for the mod.

Why are several features not included in the sp mode?
(Dodge System, "bad" Katas removed, using the Lightsaber needs Force power, Force Power don't regenerate if i run or use the lightsaber)
Can't. The SP source code hasn't been released.


MP
-If i loaded the Mod i saw in the Mod menu:
O
O
JO
instead of:
OJP: Basic...
OJP: Enhanced..
JA+ Mod v1.8
It's a known bug with the menu files. I haven't heard back from Teancum yet.

-I and the bots can't damage someone with the lightsaber.
Maybe my settings are wrong(left them default) or the dodge system works too good

you probably just need to change the settings like suggested.

-Don't know if it is, but the chance to met someone with the lightsaber should be the same if i walk and when i stay.

You mean the blocking chances? There's only a difference between running and walking/standing.

I forgott, if someone explains me how i could do the german translationWell that would be cool. I'd have to do some editing first to make it work thou. I'm a bit busy at the moment but hopefully in a week or so I'll have the time.

Noxrepere
04-16-2004, 08:52 AM
I was trying the Beta for Basic and came across this:

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/4808/BlackSword.jpg

(I didn't notice this earlier since I don't normally have anything other than sabers in the base folder. :) )


If the saber blade color is set to black when a sword hilt was selected the blade trail shows during swings. It doesn't show when they aren't being swung.

If I go to the saber menu and choose a different color, the sword shows as intended.

Maybe it's just a side effect of the way the black saber was implemented.

It does look interesting though.

razorace
04-16-2004, 05:41 PM
hmmm, sounds like the no trail .sab setting isn't working right. I suggest you talk to TCK about it.

Lei Hng Wei
04-19-2004, 01:56 AM
Speaking of saber colours the Alora and Cultist bots have blue sabers (http://thatharvguy.0catch.com/JA/WTF/OJP-BlueSabers.html). Shouldn't the Cultist have a single saber anyway?

And another thing, can ya tweak the bots so Desann uses the Retribution, Kyle the Katarn and Tavion the Stinger? It's odd not seeing them use their respective sabers like ya did with Luke.

I'll doublecheck and see if other pk3s are interfering with OJP Enhanced 002b6. Malak is the only model with the visual weapons tags right? I'll have to grab him and see how that looks.

razorace
04-19-2004, 02:29 AM
hmmm, it's not suppose to do that. Are you sure the code part of the mod is actually running?

And all that data is stored in the bot files. Feel free to make the changes and submit them, but I'm too busy to mess with it now. Sorry.

Noxrepere
04-19-2004, 03:15 AM
Originally posted by Lei Hng Wei
Speaking of saber colours the Alora and Cultist bots have blue sabers (http://thatharvguy.0catch.com/JA/WTF/OJP-BlueSabers.html). Shouldn't the Cultist have a single saber anyway?

That's odd though, because with me Alora is using the RGB sabers that constantly change color. That saber stuff can easily be changed though if you open the pk3 and change some settings. The color of the saber and hilts they use is in the .bot file in the scripts folder for add-on models, and in a bots.txt file in the botfiles folder for the models that come with the game.

Lei Hng Wei
04-19-2004, 03:29 AM
Yup, found bots.txt easy enough and see how the Cultist and above mentioned sabers can be fixed. A little confused with Alora's rgbscript (pimp code?) but I'm no coder. :confused:

The problem I have is if I tweak it, I can't turn it back into a pk3 to test it. As far as I know, there's no apps to make pk3s for Macs and yes, I Googled and badgered my friends to no avail.

Guess I'm not really helping am I. :(

Noxrepere
04-19-2004, 05:18 AM
Originally posted by Lei Hng Wei
Yup, found bots.txt easy enough and see how the Cultist and above mentioned sabers can be fixed. A little confused with Alora's rgbscript (pimp code?) but I'm no coder. :confused:

The problem I have is if I tweak it, I can't turn it back into a pk3 to test it. As far as I know, there's no apps to make pk3s for Macs and yes, I Googled and badgered my friends to no avail.

Guess I'm not really helping am I. :(


Well how do you open the pk3's? I'm sorry, I'm not all that familar with Macs so I wouldn't know. Does the rest of the mod work like normal on a Mac? (Meaning are the code changes universal?)

I don't use any special zipping utility, all I use is Window's built in compression tools. I open the pk3's by renaming the file extension to zip. (Example: ojpbeta.pk3 = ojpbeta.zip) I have to extract files and then change what I want. After that I send everything back to zip, and rename the file extension from zip to pk3.

If Macs have a similar zipping function, maybe the same thing could be done, but like I said I've only used them a little so I really don't know. Sorry I can't help more. :(



To quote the rgbsabers readme file, this explains the numbering used with Alora's sabers, and the simpilar single color version used for the cultist.

rgb_script1 & rgb_script2

//usage :
rgb_script1 :R1,G1,B1:T1:R2,G2,B2:t2:

with R1, G1, and B1 being the rgb params of the color number 1.
you have up to 10 color slots for each scripted sabers.
T1 is the transition time between color 1 and color 2 in milliseconds.

example:
rgb_script1 :255,0,0:500:255,0,255:500:0,0,255:500:

this script will make a saber that is red and then changes to purple
and then to blue with a transition time of half a second (500 millisecs) between each color changes.


EDIT: Razorace, I noticed that when playing the mod if i use any gun in first person mode and then pull out my saber(s) I automatically go to first person (which is rather disorienting.) Would it be possible to make it so that first person for sabers has to be entered manually. It just seems odd to jump to first person and then "search" for the perspective view button to go back to third person.

razorace
04-19-2004, 06:25 AM
Way ahead of you. You just need to toggle ojp_saberinvert (or maybe it's ojp_invertsaber) Anyway, there's a cvar for that exact purpose.

Noxrepere
04-19-2004, 06:59 AM
Cool! :cool:

Thanks for the info.

Lei Hng Wei
04-19-2004, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by 7th Jedi
I open the pk3's by renaming the file extension to zip. (Example: ojpbeta.pk3 = ojpbeta.zip) I have to extract files and then change what I want. After that I send everything back to zip, and rename the file extension from zip to pk3.

I can open them no problem with StuffIt Expander, renaming the zipped folder to .pk3 is where it gets messy. It just hides the .zip extension, so when I go and manually remove the .zip in the Info (folder.pk3.zip), it just unzips it. No PAK compressor or File/Creator app that can change the zip extension were found. :(

Most of the text files I can edit and save. It's the .glm and stuff I don't have the apps to read 'em yet. They look like gibberish.

A bunch of the mod doesn't seem to be working for me. RGB sabers, holstering, blocking. Any other Mac users having problems with the beta? :confused:

Noxrepere
04-19-2004, 07:37 AM
Originally posted by Lei Hng Wei
I can open them no problem with StuffIt Expander, renaming the zipped folder to .pk3 is where it gets messy. It just hides the .zip extension, so when I go and manually remove the .zip in the Info (folder.pk3.zip), it just unzips it. No PAK compressor or File/Creator app that can change the zip extension were found. :(

I don't know if it's the same on Macs, but on my computer I had to choose an option that told the computer NOT to hide known file extensions. Look and see if there is a system option anywhere that will show the known file extensions. (Example: readme.txt shows the file extension.) If there is such an option then renaming it from zip to pk3 might be possible.

Originally posted by Lei Hng Wei

Most of the text files I can edit and save. It's the .glm and stuff I don't have the apps to read 'em yet. They look like gibberish.

The .glm's are the actual models themselves. You would need a modeling program, such as 3ds Max, to import the model. That's only useful if you plan on editing the model itself in anyway.

razorace
04-19-2004, 08:09 AM
oh, I bet I know the problem. All the gameplay code for JKA for the PC is stored in .dlls were are windows only. I'll ask Raven about it.

lazoras
04-25-2004, 08:32 PM
alright ive tested the enhanced version of your mod and i must say i was kinda disapointed

first off i dont like the auto dodging. a hit should be a hit. plus it takes too long to kill someone especialy if its a CTF it would be impossible. and not to mention it leaves a big gap because guns become way more effective than a saber which goes against all of the JK series. not to mention how slow the sabers are. its impossible for me to be hit lol! and i dont like that it takes force to swing the saber...that shouldnt be there at all. and the two extra saber styles i dont like...when i need to use blue lunge i want to be able to switch to it in a heart beat. not cycle through two other styles. keep the traditional sabers but bump it up with fixes and extra emotes and wall grabbing and make it so the player holds his wound when he stands still...dont change the sabers pllllzzz. oh yeah and get rid of the cartwheel if you can :)

razorace
04-25-2004, 08:57 PM
Basically, you want to play OJP Basic or one of the zillion admin mods out there. Go to it.

razorace
04-28-2004, 07:39 PM
I've been getting some requests for a new beta release (perferably with the new TAB Bot). I'm going to be shooting for a beta release (either of Enhanced or Basic) by Friday.

I know it's been a while, but please hang with us there. I've been pretty busy with my consulting job and all the new OJP features that are being worked on are pretty complex.

El Sitherino
04-29-2004, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by razorace
I've been getting some requests for a new beta release (perferably with the new TAB Bot). I'm going to be shooting for a beta release (either of Enhanced or Basic) by Friday.

I know it's been a while, but please hang with us there. I've been pretty busy with my consulting job and all the new OJP features that are being worked on are pretty complex. awesome. No problem with waiting. The OJP teams work is well worth waiting.

razorace
05-01-2004, 08:41 AM
Ok dokie. We're on track for release late today (I gotta go sleep and then go to work).

Anyway, this is what I've implimented so far in terms of the TAB Bot:

Advanced Waypoint Navigation System - Using computer science's best known real time pathfinding system, the A* Algorethm, TAB Bots take the shortest possible waypoint route to get to where they want to go.
Fix for the bots not clicking ready at game intermission.
Bots use Katas.
Three tiered AI structure
text based bot ordering system
system designed to be portable and modulated. You can even have the TAB Bots in the same game as the original JKA bots


I ran some 3 on 3, sabers only, no force, single sabers only, team FFA pitting the TAB Bots vs. the old bots and there's the scores:

With friendly fire: 50 TAB to 9 Old
Without friendly fire: 50 TAB - 16 Old

Note: The TAB Bots currently only use the medium stance so these numbers will only go up from here.

Keep in mind that this is still a prototype system. Only two commands have been implimented and the TAB Bots still do a lot of stupid stuff, heck, they don't even lead their targets yet.

lonepadawan
05-01-2004, 12:25 PM
We can give them orders? Niftyyyy.

El Sitherino
05-01-2004, 12:49 PM
hey, I got a question, Okay, This is the first time it's happend to me, but suddenly OJP is starting to do this when I start it up.
http://www.boomspeed.com/insanesith/ojp_error.jpg
do you know what might be causing it?
I Look in the console and get no texture errors or anything, It just shows up that way. and In game it does too. I start the regular JA and it works fine, but once I load OJP it does this. :\

I've tested both basic and enhanced and they're both doing this to me now. For no reason. :\

I've deleted the directories. restarted my comp and reinstalled them and I still get that problem.

Samuel Dravis
05-01-2004, 02:58 PM
It sounds like another mod is interfering, because I don't have that problem... try removing the stuff in /base.

razorace
05-02-2004, 01:01 AM
Ok guys, still on track to doing a beta release tonight.

Based on the status of the ledgegrab (almost done, but the animations haven't been finalized), I'm going to hold a Enhanced beta until that's finished. We want to be sure that the additional download time is worth the wait. :)

Anyway, I'm in the middle of tweaking some stuff so everything is ready to go. Should be an hour or so.

razorace
05-02-2004, 03:55 AM
Ok, it's up. Check out the website (ojp.jediknight.net) for the links and lowdown.

Hekx
05-02-2004, 07:27 AM
The bots who use Duals seem to have a serious penchant for Katas, reminds me of Public servers. :p

All single-saber bots tend to stick with medium/yellow style, is this normal?

razorace
05-02-2004, 02:53 PM
Yeah, as I mentioned in the Bot Saber Combat thread, the bots currently only use the medium stance and only try to do the katas (none of the special moves yet). I'll be working on that once we figure out how the bots should change stances.

El Sitherino
05-04-2004, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by Samuel Dravis
It sounds like another mod is interfering, because I don't have that problem... try removing the stuff in /base. I don't have any other mods. It worked before, it just started messing up.

Hekx
05-05-2004, 09:13 AM
One problem with TrueView:

When you do a sideways aerial/cartwheel, the view stays stuck without flipping.

cg_trueaerial here we come. ;)

razorace
05-05-2004, 03:49 PM
With what roll setting?

lazoras
05-05-2004, 10:59 PM
this isnt really a bug, but can you guys add the wall hang thing and the new bots to the basic mod along with some admin commands? im looking for something that can fix JA, and enhance it a little...but i also want control of my server. if this is possible i, along with millions of other people that host would very very very much appreciate it.

razorace
05-06-2004, 03:02 AM
The new bots (at least a prototype of them) is already in the lastest Basic Beta.

Ledge grab will not be going into Basic because it's a gameplay change and I think it will screw up the purpose of Basic to force people to download 12+ mgs of animation data just to play it.

And what sort of admin commands are you talking about? Base JKA already has a fully implimented admin system.

lazoras
05-07-2004, 02:44 AM
well...to tell you the truth...i think this mod has massive potential to dominate all of JA if it would team up with the JA+ team.
think of it this way...i fully functional admin system like JA (along with all its extra features like saber altering and kick flip altering and blah blah blah) plus the wall hang (this is something alot of JA players are dieing to have) and the new bot system.
oh yeah i dont know how your bot system works but this is an idea that someone else had for AI.
ah i cant find the link :( but anyway i can explain it.

bots run off a list of possible options and randomly choose one. this guys idea was to take the bots and give them all the possible options to start off with. everytime the bot dies or loses something the bot permanently eliminates that option until only the good options are left in the long run. this makes dumb bots at first but would create very life like bots later on. he said something about having all the bots work off of the same pool or something to keep down the file size. but i think this is a good idea because i know as an experienced saberist that the ability to adapt to a persons saber style is critical to being a good saberist. not to mention you can give the bot tactics instead of random swings and the choice to run or fight. for example there are special combinations of swings that are more affective than others...same goes for dodging tactics...i use a very traditional tactic whenever i face a red style saberist for example...my tactic is to run around to the left and cut in to the right side so my aponent misses me and doesnt have time to swing the second time before ive hit him atleast twice..then i back off and do it again until he figures it out and i have to randomly come up with another tactic to fit my aponents style of fighting...maybe you can make a bot something like that ;) sry for rambling...you probubly already had that idea :(

but back to the over all mod. i really beleive if you could team up with ja+ mod and add your wall hang and maybe a couple other nice touches...for example you could soup up the wall jump so you can do a wall run and jump off the wall run onto another wall and do a wall jump without touching the ground...kinda like ninja gaden.....or eliminating the static on the roll...you could make it so you can go imidiatly from a roll to a jump like you could do in real life. but anyway...that would be the perfect mod in my eyes...and im sure in many others...the problem with ja+ is it doesnt fix the bugs and doesnt have anything really exiting and cool like wall hang and the capabilities to soup up wall run and other things like i previously mentioned.

do you think it would be worth a try to make such a mod?

keshire
05-07-2004, 06:21 AM
team up with the JA+ team

I have personal issues against seeing that happen as well as I'm sure a few others do. Its been well documented that Admin mods destroyed the JO community.

That is why Slider only made his mod server side. Because no regular player would download something like that. So it was made for those who want to control everybody who comes to their server no matter base game or modded.

razorace
05-08-2004, 01:33 AM
As for evolutionary AI, the problem with it is that it requires a lot of evolve time especially when the situation it's dealling with is fluid. Unfortunately, that's not really doable since JKA runs in real time. You'd have to have the computer continuously play for years to get a good system out of it.

Plus, those types of system are hard on the system resources. JKA has to have a light enough so that multiple bots can play at the same time.

razorace
05-08-2004, 08:10 AM
Ok, beta 3 for Basic v0.0.5 is out. (personal.palouse.net/razorace/ojp_basic_005b3.zip) The only changes since beta 2 have been making the Tab Bots work in siege. It's pretty early stage stuff, but, they can get all the way to the coffin without help (barely) on Korriban.

I've only tried things on Korriban but the code we have now should cover most of the objectives on the other maps. The game will spam you with an error message if the bot are trying to do an objective that they don't know how to complete.

There's what I know doesn't work:

- Rebels can't attack the coffin.
- No jump ability checking (meaning that the bots will attempt the jump wheither they have the nessicary force points or skill level.
- Bots will often jump into Lava after a dropped siege item (crystals)
- Bots suck at getting the blue crystal and staff.
- Defender bots hump the doors that haven't been broken yet and don't defend very well either.
- Attackers are single minded when attacking walls/breakables.
- Bots don't defend themselves when waiting for elevators or Pulling/Pushing buttons/platforms.
- There's no bot orders for siege yet.
- Bot's only do objectives in order.

Hekx
05-08-2004, 12:03 PM
Dead link... :(

razorace
05-08-2004, 03:26 PM
fixed. Sorry about that, I could have sworen that I had fixed it earlier.

lazoras
05-08-2004, 09:51 PM
i dont want to control everyone that comes in my server...but i do want to be able to get rid of lamers and people who are out right rude. i plan on establishing a nice duel server with fully custom maps (im a mapper :) ) every month ill put a new map on or replace an old map. blah blah blah. but at the same time i also plan on having a nice FFA server and would like to see the wall hang...but i would need some admin control because i cant watch the server all the time. maybe if you dont go over board with the admin powers like slider did. slider has admin powers that are souly for abusing which i constantly complain on servers about. can you make it so there are only a few admin powers and two admin logins...council and knight logins...council has kick ban abilities, slap (make it so there is a long timelimit..kinda like a time out that admins dont have to wake the person up afterward), and kick. knight would have everything council has accept kickban. im sure players wont mind downloading a mod with the bug fixes, the wall hang, plus if you guys decide to soup up wall run and wall jump just as long as thats all the admin powers there are. oh yeah...a grappling hook would be a nice touch if you made it toggleable...along with a jet pack... and add a function for jedi vs merc...mercs get the jetpack and jedi get the grapple kinda thing. that would be awsome, and im sure everyone wouldnt mind downloading it.

razorace
05-08-2004, 11:03 PM
Kick, ip ban abilities, and remote adminning are all in base JKA. If you believe otherwise, you've been told wrong.

Secondly, exactly what are you looking for and would you be able to guarentee dedicated server time for the mod if I was to add those functions?

lazoras
05-10-2004, 07:22 PM
i know about the base JA admin powers. the problem with using the base JA admin powers is you have to use rcon and i dont want to give my rcon password out. thats why i mentioned the two logins council and knight like in JA+.
about the garentee... i know that if a mod is made something like i described with a balance of admin powers and advancements like i have described...the mod is definetly going to be a hit. my server will definetly use it..and im sure most others will as well because of it fixing all the bugs and souping up things that can be made better...and the wall grab would definetly put it over the top. the mod would be what JA was supposed to be like, and had the potential to be. with the admin powers so limited clients wont mind downloading the mod because of all the benefits (not to mention its almost impossible to abuse admin powers) and servers will love to download it because it fixes all the bugs which makes the game funner = more clients and still gives them some control over their server (giving admin powers and what not without giving away rcon password). which keeps down the laming and keeps jerks from causing unjustified caos.
i cant garentee this mod will be used by everyone...but i can say that it will definetly give JA+ a run for its money.

razorace
05-10-2004, 11:27 PM
First off, mentioning JA+ in any sort of positive light around here is only going to make people not listen to you. We don't like admin mods and OJP will never be like them, period.

However, we are open to reasonable admin upgrades, like what Kurgan has been suggesting for a cvar that forces team balance.

So, please explain why you're afraid to hand out the rcon password when you're willing to do that "subadmin" stuff.

lazoras
05-11-2004, 12:02 AM
i mention JA+ because its the best admin mod around...but its also the greatest joke as far as admin abuse is concerned... i myself am strictly against admin abuse to where i have limited all admin powers to kick kickban and sleep because i am so much against it. i care for both parties of the game because i like to go to other servers without BS admins but also like to keep lamers and what not out of my own server. i dont like giving rcon away because i dont want my admins to have access to advanced server settings. for example...some of my admins may not know what certain cvars do or the exact command for that cvar...so by making the choice easy and limited (kickbacn kick and slap (with a long wait time) this makes it easier for them and less chance for them to mess up the server. my aim...the reason i am posting on this forum so much...is because i want to get rid of JA+ because it gives too much power to admins but at the same time your mod provides bug fixes and alot of other really nice things. but doesnt have any sub-admins to keep my server safe from being messed up or hacked or whatever else anyone might be able to do to it. i beleive admin powers are good...but should be limited so that abuse is almost impossible....or abuse is not fun at all for the admin. (i personaly like to just hunt the lamer down myself and out play the lamer) however not everyone of my admins has enough skill to take on some lamers. thus...some admin powers are required.

dont get me wrong...when i say admin powers i mean extreemly strict and small admin powers. for example, kick kickban and slap (with a long time limit on it) are my idea of perfect admin settings.

razorace
05-11-2004, 12:36 AM
So, basically, you want us to bend over backwards so you don't have to worry about properly training your admins. Well, I'm sorry, but that's not our problem. If you don't trust your admins, you shouldn't have them in the first place.

Secondly, slap's function is ONLY as an torture device. Simply kicking someone or just admin chatting to them is plenty warning before you ban them for bad behavior. Slap will not be in OJP.

Sorry to be so harss about this but a lot of us here firmly beleive that torture ("admin") commands were a major factor in turning a lot of people away from JK2 and JKA.

lazoras
05-11-2004, 12:48 AM
the slap thing i use after my chat warning...thats why i said give it a long time limit...so it cant be abused...but i can do without slap ne way...its not that i dont want to train my admins...its just clans usualy dont train admins at all...its kinda a learning thing...besides...it saves my server incase someone gets ahold of my pass..they would have less chance of messing up the server.

the reason im posting this time is because i thaught up a nice alternative to extra saber styles...see im an old school saberist and dont like new saber styles while others do...

so if its possible, it might be a nice bonus to the mod to make extra saber styles optional...maybe even pick which saber styles you want and what ones you dont...even pick the order they come in...or pick any 3 styles and the order they come in. that would be a nice idea to put in a mod.

oh yeah about the admin thing...remember, this isnt just for me...alot of clans are dependant on JA+ because JA+ is the only admin mod that is half way decent as far as i know of. you could give clans an option. with your mod, and im sure once again...they would be happy to switch over since your mod would have more to offer than JA+

razorace
05-11-2004, 02:15 PM
And how often has someone screwed up your server?

Slap is abusive. There is no such thing as "teaching someone a leason" on a server that ISN'T admin abuse. If they don't pay attention, kick them.

Finally, if you're worried about subadmins screwing up your server, just enable voting. I've been told that people are afraid to enable voting because the players can screw up the gametype or map rotation but I can easily fix that.

lazoras
05-13-2004, 03:29 PM
however you want to setup such a thing thats fine...but i still think sub admins would be a nice touch although it probubly is very hard to do. but if its too much hassle for such a small thing im sure everyone can work off of voting...even though most people dont really vote in FFA's.
ty for your concideration on the topic though. i really do apreciate it

razorace
05-19-2004, 09:45 PM
You're welcome. As mentioned on the website, I've added a bunch of admin enhancements based on feedback.

Nemios
06-10-2004, 03:58 AM
Sorry, I'm quite late. I promised I'd have testes OJP Basic and never gave feedback but I indeed use it.

I'm currently using v. 005 b3 and found a bug. When I use the staff and switch to single stance to throw the saber, the game hangs and quits.

My brother and I often play together with a Serial Null modem Cable, usually FFA, Duel or Siege.

I play on WinXP home, Duron 1GHZ, 256MB mem and host every game.

My brother on Win98se, Celeron 433, 192MB mem.

If you need a particular situation to test tell me :)

razorace
06-10-2004, 06:57 AM
It crashes when you go to the stance or when you attempt to throw the saber? Does it happen all the time or just some of the time?

I'm puzzled since OJP Basic doesn't touch the saber combat system at all.

Kurgan
06-10-2004, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by lazoras
oh yeah about the admin thing...remember, this isnt just for me...alot of clans are dependant on JA+ because JA+ is the only admin mod that is half way decent as far as i know of. you could give clans an option. with your mod, and im sure once again...they would be happy to switch over since your mod would have more to offer than JA+

No offense, but if these guys are dependant on JA+ its likely because of their huge egos (or simple ignorance that there are other mods out there). Rcon is just as easy to use as any other system devised (except the lazy "banning gun" functions I've seen in some of the mods).

Xmod2 is much better for clan use, it has far more options that are actually useful (gameplay tweaks, admin settings) rather than just a bunch of ampunish commands + additional gametypes and chat invulnerability.

It accomplishes the same goals, but much more efficiently.

OJP need not be another admin mod, so I think Razor has the right idea here. Kudos.

razorace
06-12-2004, 02:54 AM
http://ojp.jediknight.net/files/betas/ojpblockbeta1.rar

Ok, since I went to the effort of packing it, I figured I'd let you guys check out the what we're working on.

This beta is of the lastest OJP Enhanced compile. there is NO documentation but if operates just like the last beta expect for ledgegrabbing and new animations for the block system. Please note that the new block system is in DEEP WIP terroritory. It's not working as planned and will be improved over time.

lightofdarkness
06-12-2004, 09:47 AM
Nice to see it in place, though I noticed a funny red trail of lines that follow the saber whenever block is held. Always at a 90 degree angle to the ground. Plus, the blocks don't work very well as of yet :) I have yet to see any side blocking, it's all around the upper regions. I've noticed the yellow stance and red tance downward strikes are often not blocked, if ever.

keshire
06-12-2004, 11:10 AM
Thats strange the side blocks work for me.

And yes I've noticed it doens't want to pick the right block sometimes. I also redid most of them to intercept better.

The line you see was a debug thing Razor set up.

razorace
06-12-2004, 03:20 PM
yep, we know about all that stuff.

Irimi-Ai
06-15-2004, 03:19 PM
This is my first post to this forum, but I have been lurking for the past few days. I've read all the pages in this thread (among others), and thought I'd describe an idea I had (and that Master_Keralys alluded to earlier). Before I start rambling, I must say that I have not yet tried any version of the OJP mods. I loved JO and JA, but have not played either in a long time. However, it looks like the OJP is going to be the one thing that makes me play again...great sounding mod so far.

Anyway, on to my idea. In an earlier post, RazorAce stated that he was going for a more "realistic" feel for the mod, and I assume he meant as realistic as possible within the Star Wars universe. I completely agree with that direction. Related to this realistic vision, a dodge bar has been designed. There has also been a lot of discussion regarding the fatigue vs. dodge bars, with the current version having a dodge bar.

I think having a general fatigue bar would make the mod more realistic than the dodge bar. Here's why: in all of the Star Wars books, movies, comics, cartoons, etc. you can see a physical and metaphysical aspect to all Jedi actions. This could be reflected by a fatigue bar (i.e., physical exertion) and the force bar (i.e., metaphysical exertion). The act of dodging is just one action, which can be performed purely physically or Force-aided. It seems to me that the most realistic option would be to have a break-down of all in-game actions and assign them "costs" from both the physical and metaphysical pools (fatigue and force). Some could be solely fatigue-based, some could be solely Force-based, some could be a mixture, and some actions could be influenced by the player. This would also neatly deal with a lot of the issues brought up by others. Here's some examples:

Action // Force cost // Fatigue cost
Dodging // 0 // 10
Force-aided dodge // 10 // 10
"Regular" saber swing // 0 // 5
Force-aided saber swing // variable // variable (depends on kata/stance/special move)
Regular jump // 0 // 15
Force jump // 10/sec // 15
Force healing // 60 // 30
Running // 0 // 10/sec
Force running/speed // 10/sec // 10/sec

Of course, these would all need to be balanced, but it would be the most realistic depiction of action. It would:
-depict the physical exhaustion after intense Force usage (e.g., Force healing, as RazorAce pointed out in an earlier post)
-encourage limited use of special moves (i.e., limit spamming)
-limit running, jumping, etc.
-encourage more "fencing-like" duels since normal saber swings would require little fatigue
-reflect different levels of Jedi training. For example, a Padawan-level Force user in the game would rely less on the Force and more on the physical because they have a smaller Force pool to draw from and longer recovery times, which would reflect his/her limited training in the Force (Luke in ESB vs. Yoda in AOTC). The higher ranked a player is, the more Force they are able to use.
-be available for other non-Star Wars mods based on OJP (e.g., a medieval mod could simply remove Force usage but could retain the fatigue portion)


Of course, it would have to be determined how/when the Force-aided actions are used (e.g., player activated, when to have dodges be automatically Force-aided, etc.). Anyway, that was just my idea for having it be as realistic as possible. I also have no idea whether such a thing would be possible coding-wise. It sounds as if the current system is close to this, I just think having a separate fatigue meter makes more sense than a dodge bar, as dodging is simply one of many actions that requires physical effort and which can be aided by the Force. If you made it this far, thanks for reading. Look forward to playing the OJP and all the upcoming versions.

Irimi-Ai

PS If I had a lot of money, I would seriously pay the developerís/coders for your work on this mod. Please donít let it fizzle out.

Samuel Dravis
06-15-2004, 08:41 PM
That's an interesting suggestion. :)

Razor and other coders, check this thread (http://lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129904). Amidala and a lot of other people are really annoyed. :eek: