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NamelessOne
10-01-2001, 05:58 PM
I don't really know the AOE games very well, but have been waiting for a Star Wars RTS for a while. From what I do know of the AOE games and the GB demo is that the sides all seem to be the same. There isnt much of a difference between the factions in terms of the strategy that you'll have to employ. The suddle differences between units that you'll get once you build the equivalent of an AOE castle isnt enough.
It's not that I view this as a major problem, but the dynamic in RA2 worked well, where each side had it's own distinct strengths and weaknesses.

Admiral Odin
10-01-2001, 07:50 PM
The same will be true here.

Wookies have a great soldiers but are week else where.
Rebs have the best airforce.

I don't remember all of it.

Eets
10-01-2001, 07:51 PM
Imps have the best mechs, I think.

Tie Guy
10-01-2001, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by Admiral Odin
The same will be true here.

Wookies have a great soldiers but are week else where.
Rebs have the best airforce.

I don't remember all of it.

but that only makes for a slight advantage. In ra2, a GI could kill 2 conscipts, but 2 rhino tanks could easily take 3 grizzly tanks. See, its much different. Another example is that the Allies had destroyers and aircraft carriers, while the soviets had subs and dreadnaughts.

While some sides may have slight strengths and weaknesses, its nothing like in RA2.

Admiral Odin
10-01-2001, 08:09 PM
I know that. Just that there will be a difference in sides.

Thrawn
10-01-2001, 08:38 PM
Yes there will be a difference in teams but not as drastic as in RA2. :D

Necro
10-01-2001, 09:29 PM
i wish there'd be huge differences like in starcraft's species! :deathii:

JEDI_MASTA
10-01-2001, 09:34 PM
i like the game just the way it is enough strategy to make civ choice essential to victory but not like another civ would have completely different strategy

Thrawn
10-01-2001, 09:41 PM
I think that the races should be somewhat different, but not completely random from each other like in SC. :D

Eets
10-01-2001, 10:14 PM
SC troops aren't that random. There is ALWAYS something to counteract another thing. 5 zerg scourges can destroy a protoss carrier easily, for example, while a terran nuke can be stopped immediately by a few well placed detectors.

NamelessOne
10-02-2001, 04:15 AM
The bottom line is that in Starcraft and RA2, each side has completely different weapons. The other factions don't neccessarily have an equivalent to that weapon but always have some kind of unit to exploit it's weaknesses.
The same is true in GB, but every side has every type of unit. Be it a little bit more or less powerful... the side you choose won't make that much of a difference in how the game is played.

EndSub
10-02-2001, 05:05 AM
but is that really so bad?

while starcraft units were VERY diffrent (and very well balenced...) how long was the development time? 4 years?

RA2 has only 2 sides....they can afford to be diffrent........

AoE had six sides and tried to make them diffrent by giving them bonues.....and this led to alot of balencing problems......

can't remember where i read it, but GB has removed aalot of bonuses and made each side quite "standered".......but with enough variation in play to make them diffrent......which is proberly a good thing...leaves them time to concentrate on other things........

porkins14
10-02-2001, 01:00 PM
After late night studying of the tech tree, I think the demo can not fully reveal the difference in sides because you can only tech level 3. Once you get into level 4 you see major differences. For example, Wookie and Gungan civs cant upgrade to jedi masters, Gungan cant really upgrade their troops in level 4, empire cant shield their fighters. This isnt the kind of game in which the stats of units will be very different. The upgrades (and lack of for some civs), will make playing very different.

For example: Gungan and Wookie will be played extremely different, as wookies can upgrade every troop, Gungans cant even upgrade in tech 4. However gungans can uprgrade every mech throughout level 4, and so on and so forth.

Darth_Venage
10-02-2001, 03:16 PM
exactly. The untis are all roughly the same(except UUs), but its the UPGRADES that make one civ stron in troops, or mechs, or air, or whatever. So to fully use your civs units, you have to upgrade them.

NamelessOne
10-02-2001, 09:51 PM
Agreed-the upgrades are different.
The question is, how much different?
Do six wookies with 6+3 attack points have such a great advantage over seven gungans with 6+2 attack points?
NO, it would be an even battle. I can see how the abilities of Sith and Jedi Masters might make the game play different whether or not you have them. But other than that, I cant say that it would make a difference with any side that's chosen.

I just wished that they would have put a little more thought into the game rather than simply rehashing an already dated engine and changing the animations of the units. I know that what I just said will piss off a lot of people, but just because youre a big fan of star wars doesnt mean that you should be ready to look past the flaws of this game and try to justify them.

Cup_A_Jabba
10-02-2001, 10:19 PM
:deathii: I know what u mean after playing hours of the demo with my friend located here on the forums who's name I will not disclose :p But anywayz you really do have to upgrade. and it is really different from starcraft :( In starcraft approx. 12 tanks could rape a base in a game whereas you need many many many more units in GBG to fight of a well defended base. So it will be interesting for us StarCraft veterans to get used to the unique layout of this game. It should be a challenge!!

Uterus the Sith
10-02-2001, 11:27 PM
Nameless One, in AoE/RoR/AoK/AoC sides were drastically different and civillization choice was usually a deciding factor in any game. AoC had 18 civillizations and maybe 4 were actually playable competitively. I expect GB to be a little more well balanced then that, but you can expect at least 2 civs to be considered "crap" a month after the game is released.

No matter what balancing techniques are employed it's really impossible to give all civs a rock-paper-scissors relationship unless the game only has a few civs.

GB, like every RTS game, is going to be about rushing. Whatever civ is the fastest will be dominant.

NamelessOne
10-03-2001, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by Uterus the Sith
No matter what balancing techniques are employed it's really impossible to give all civs a rock-paper-scissors relationship unless the game only has a few civs.

other games have done it very well, and im sure that if the people at LucasArts decided to brainstorm a bit more rather than simply drawing up new graphics... we'd have a groundbreaking title on our hands, but instead, we're going to be playing AOE with star wars figures...

Muuurgh
10-03-2001, 02:21 AM
If you had the gungans and the wookies together, that would be a pretty darn hardcore combo. You get the shield generator with the wookiee regenerative ability. Of course, that's only possible multiplayer, but still, think of the possibilities.

And I think the game is a lot different than AOE. Regenerating walls, Shields, power, air, I think there's enough different that it's a completely different game.

NamelessOne
10-03-2001, 10:32 AM
As far as air units are concerned... they shouldnt even be considered a new dimension to the game. If you check out the other thread on why air units suck, itll make it pretty clear.
the idea of powering production structures, shields and regenerating walls as base defense are all good, but not good enough to constitute an entire game rather than a simple expansion pack.

Tie Guy
10-03-2001, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by NamelessOne
As far as air units are concerned... they shouldnt even be considered a new dimension to the game. If you check out the other thread on why air units suck, itll make it pretty clear.
the idea of powering production structures, shields and regenerating walls as base defense are all good, but not good enough to constitute an entire game rather than a simple expansion pack.

I agree with you on the air thing, but i think that GB will be (and should be) a different game. Sure, it might use the same engine, and hve the same unit and structure setup, but that is where the similarity ends. All the rest is different. They have different unts, diffrent gameplay styles, diffrent upgrades, different structures, and new features. Thats plenty to "constitute" a new game. Besides, if it was an expansion pack, you'd need AOK to play it.

NamelessOne
10-03-2001, 04:45 PM
I didnt mean expansion pack literally, but it really does feel like one.
True, there are a number of new units, but the majority are just rehashed AOE units. With the exception of air and anti-air units, everything that comes out of the troop center, shipyard and heavy weapons factory is just a redrawn AOE unit.
Sure, mech units are nice... but every side has the exact same thing (be it with different graphics)
Other than that there are a couple of structures that add a nice element to the game. Namely, shield generators and power cores, but they are not enough to make this game stand alone.
By the way, I dont mind that theyre using an old engine.