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razorace
04-02-2004, 05:31 PM
Keshire has hooked us up with some ledge grabbing animations and I'd like some feedback on how we can handle ledge grabbing, especially the pullup part of the coding.

Does anyone want to handle the coding implimentation of ledge grabbing?

Noxrepere
04-05-2004, 08:10 PM
Just some quick questions regarding this:

Is this a feature that all players will be capable of or just Jedi for example?

If it's just Jedi, do the animations look like the player is using the Force to pull themselves up (like Obi-Wan in The Phantom Menace in the reactor core) or does it look like they are pulling themselves up with their muscles?

Maybe there could be two versions that can be performed dependant on the players Force Jump level. Non-Force users pull themselves up with physical strength and Force users pull themselves up with the Force.

Would this also help with the Dodge Rolling issue for rolling off cliffs, like when someone rolls off would they grab the ledge?

Would there be the ability to shimmy?

Sorry to ask so many questions. I don't know how much is within reason with the code and I'm just curious about the functionality and had some suggestions.

Oh, and I'm sorry I can't help with the code.:(

razorace
04-05-2004, 08:39 PM
We will see.

I'd like to make things fully functional with two different types of ledge pull ups but we're going to have to work with what we got.

razorace
04-13-2004, 10:31 PM
Ok, I got the basic ledge grab working. I'll be continuing to tweak it when I have time.

razorace
04-18-2004, 06:31 PM
Ok, the OJP website is now operational. I'll try to get some screenshots up of this when I learn how to do that.

Secondly, it looks like the animations we got are going to need some tweaking. I'll post about that in the new anims (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126015) thread next.

zag
04-19-2004, 07:19 PM
so how would other players react to the player hanging from the ledge?
i mean any context sensetive moves like maybe a low slash that slices their hands causing them to fall?
or maybe a taunt like darth maul does to obi wan where he slices along the ledge making sparks?

razorace
04-19-2004, 07:38 PM
That's an interesting point. We might do that, but I'd like to just get the ledge grab stuff working first. :)

Lei Hng Wei
04-22-2004, 06:14 AM
Originally posted by zag
so how would other players react to the player hanging from the ledge?
i mean any context sensetive moves like maybe a low slash that slices their hands causing them to fall?
or maybe a taunt like darth maul does to obi wan where he slices along the ledge making sparks?

They pee over the edge causing 10 damage per second, with a maximum of 10 seconds. Targeting is automatically off for male models, of course. :D

razorace
04-22-2004, 11:25 AM
http://ojp.jediknight.net/files/screenshots/ledgegrab1.jpg
http://ojp.jediknight.net/files/screenshots/ledgegrab2.jpg
http://ojp.jediknight.net/files/screenshots/ledgegrab3.jpg

Noxrepere
04-22-2004, 11:59 AM
Impressive! That will definitely be a very welcome new feature.

I had another thought about this topic:

Will there be any limitations imposed on hanging? Meaning: could someone could hang over a ledge like that for an entire round (it'd be pointless to do so, but someone might :rolleyes: ) versus having some sort of grip gauge or something?

I'm not saying that there should be a gauge, or any penalty for that matter, I'm just curious about everyone's thoughts.

If players still have the ability to attack others hanging on ledges, penalties may not be necessary, since those that choose to hang, rather than play, would effectively be penalizing themselves.

Sorry, if I'm getting a little bit ahead here, since it's still in development. It might be a good issue to resolve early on, however.

I really like those shots though. It conjures up new intriguing strategies. :)

keshire
04-22-2004, 12:09 PM
same penalties as holding onto a wall.

But I'm currently working on a shimmy and pull-up anims to go with it. This is more of last ditch effort if you can't jump far/high enough.

Plus we're trying to expand the possible states a player can be in.

I hope to expand on the swimming crouching and stuff like that.

razorace
04-22-2004, 09:55 PM
I'm thinking that the best way to do it is to either have it freeze fatigue regen or slowly drain it.

lonepadawan
04-22-2004, 11:00 PM
Will there be the ability to simply drop? To lessen damage from a fall (slightly redundant for a jedi who can simply use force fall but for a non jedi might be useful)

Looks brilliant so far.

I think prehaps draining fatigue might be best. Slightly more realistic (Your arms get tired) However if might mean you leap up with no ability to swing a saber...

razorace
04-22-2004, 11:14 PM
Oh, sure, you can just let go of the ledge.

Noxrepere
04-23-2004, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by lonepadawan
I think perhaps draining fatigue might be best. Slightly more realistic (Your arms get tired) However it might mean you leap up with no ability to swing a saber...

That's true. As long as it doesn't drain too fast, I think you should be able to hang for a reasonable time before being required to either get up or let go. (Unless you get into a hanging position when you're low on fatigue, but that would be silly.)

What about the possibility of pushing off of the wall and jumping in the opposite direction? I know that would be more work to do, but it would give more options to people in the hanging position. It could give people hanging the ability to get out of a dangerous situation, rather than face either climbing back up where someone is waiting for them, or dropping to their death (depending on the drop). I'm not condoning players who run away from imminent death all the time, it's just a possible strategy. :)

Also, it was discussed how to handle attacking people hanging down on a ledge. I think a possible solution would be enabling the stab down moves that are capable when someone is lying on the ground. They seem like they would look appropriate and be effective as well. (It wouldn't require any new animations, which is also a plus. :))

razorace
04-23-2004, 01:04 AM
Yeah, I've been considering the wall jumping thing myself. We will see.

As for attacking the ledge hangers, I don't think it's a big deal but I think the best solution would be to just do the downward jump stab that you do against people on the ground. However, this might be a problem since the hit bbox on a ledge hanger is probably going to be weird.

Noxrepere
04-23-2004, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by razorace
Yeah, I've been considering the wall jumping thing myself. We will see.

As for attacking the ledge hangers, I don't think it's a big deal but I think the best solution would be to just do the downward jump stab that you do against people on the ground. However, this might be a problem since the hit bbox on a ledge hanger is probably going to be weird.

Yeah, that's what I meant, about stabbing down. Maybe for now, it could be set aside and you can see if it's a gameplay problem or not once the next Beta is out. If it's too easy to abuse the hanging feature, stabbing down could be implemented to serve as a balance. Players can still point down and swing so it's not like they are totally out of reach.

About the accuracy issue, the stabbing down that's already performed in-game seems to auto-target to a certain degree. If the feature were necessary, could the accuracy of the stab be increased for ledge grabs without affecting the regular stabs? Or would that be more trouble than it's worth?

BloodRiot
04-23-2004, 09:56 AM
Well there's a possible and easy enouh to animate solution to the attack the ledge hanger "problem".

Ya all know the taunt (can't remember which) in which a single blade saberist sticks the saber in the ground and leaves it there?

Well you could simply borrow the frames up to the point where the saber get's stuck... then just find a nice getting up alternative... try just switching back to the normal getting up from a crouch anim... it might work.. or at least do as a substitute for the time being.

Lei Hng Wei
04-23-2004, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by BloodRiot
Ya all know the taunt (can't remember which) in which a single blade saberist sticks the saber in the ground and leaves it there?

:confused: What? I never knew about this taunt. :confused:

Kurgan
04-23-2004, 09:43 PM
If this were an Indiana Jones Mod I'd say the following should happen...


If they switch to melee and hit attack near the ledge grabbed individual, all their "attacks" should use an animation of stomping on their fingers with their boots. Tap the button and you can stomp repeatedly on their hands.

This would do some damage AND allow them to drop one hand after a few hits then both, making them fall.

Add in another animation of the ledge grabbed person (if they can tap the button quickly enough) to grab the LEG of the stomper.

This would then go into a "saber lock" type of grabble thing, with both players tapping attack to try to gain supremecy. The winner stays, the loser falls. ; )


Hey, if you're going to go this route, I say GO ALL OUT!

[ASJN] Balboa
04-24-2004, 01:38 AM
i'm no modder but i had plans for being one, and this was exactly what i had in mind. in the level with the rancor on nar kreeta i think, at the beginning you see jaden grab the mouth of the pipe and do that cool flip up onto it. i thought about something that would put that in since the animations were already there, but like i said i don't know much about modding. cool that you did it though :)

razorace
04-24-2004, 04:39 AM
No can do. We checked those animations out and the problem with them is that the animation are way offset from the model origin.

I like Kurgan's idea but I'm not sure it's worth the hassle. The problem is that ledge grab is probably not going to be used that often or for long enough where the attacker would have time to strike at the person's hands.

keshire
04-24-2004, 05:30 AM
But it sure would be funny. I'd do it, if Razor codes it. :)

razorace
04-24-2004, 05:35 AM
I suggest we finish the basic moves and then beta test. If we find that there's a lot of oppurtunities to attack ledge grabbers, we can add them in.

Rad Blackrose
04-27-2004, 10:12 PM
My question is, what would be the conditions for getting a wall grab to occur? Could a jedi run up a wall, then grab a ledge? If the jedi rolls backwards too far, would he be able to grab the ledge?

I know, damn my Ninja Gaiden addiction.

What about the possibility of pushing off of the wall and jumping in the opposite direction? I know that would be more work to do

Come to think of it, couldn't you modify the wall grab -> blind back jump animation already in JA to the point where a person is hanging from the ledge, he pulls himself up to the wall grab animation (don't know how much it needs to be modified), then initiates the back jump?

razorace
04-28-2004, 01:31 AM
Right now, whenever you're in the air, it scans in front of you and then in whatever direction you're trying to move.

I'm also planning on adding some sort of roll/crouch ledge grab code to prevent people from rolling off cliffs but I can't done that yet.

And we might do the wall jump off thing but I'm not sure that you'll need to with the way you can wall jump as is.

Vouksh
04-28-2004, 03:40 PM
heh, pretty soon we'll be really able to re-enact the famous EP1 battle!

obi-wan grabbing that thing in the pit and then jumping up to kill Darth Maul

Pnut_Man
04-28-2004, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by Vouksh
heh, pretty soon we'll be really able to re-enact the famous EP1 battle!

obi-wan grabbing that thing in the pit and then jumping up to kill Darth Maul

You speak more truth than you might know ;)

Add OJP Enhanced Saber Combat + Ledge Grab = Duel of the Fates!

lazoras
05-07-2004, 02:53 AM
for aponents reacting with other players who are using ledge grab, i think it would be best just to use the stab downward attack. make it so the player can walk up to the ledge and press attack as if the player were laying down but make it so the saber goes off the edge and into the ledge grabbers head...instant kill every time...a ledge slide would be nice so you can be a little mobile while on a ledge just incase theres no where to get up where you landed on the ledge.

i would refer ledge grabbing from prince of persia: the sands of time. nice game...very acrobatic. only add an option where if you hold down the space bar to jump up you go up several stories just incase the enemy is waiting :P

kusanagi
05-14-2004, 08:33 PM
for the pull up animation, why not just use the end of the straight wall run animation, where you do a forward flip and land on the top of the wall?? it looks kinda awkward even for the wall run but hey its there so why not?

and as the ledge grab attack, how about using the taunt from the light staff where u draw a line on the floor with the tip of the staff?? you can make it a throw that'll gurantee the ledge graber to lose his/her grip n fall :)

The_G.I.
06-08-2004, 12:01 PM
Err!When is this out? :fire3: :snip2: :fire2: :blast10:

razorace
06-08-2004, 04:01 PM
Well, now that I've finished my consulting job, I'll have a lot more time to work on OJP.

Kurgan
06-08-2004, 10:19 PM
The "use saber on them" while they're hanging on the ledge makes it too easy.

If you're going to go that route I think instead you should make it so that the saber user hacks off BOTH of the arms of the hanger so that their body falls, but the two arms remain "holding" onto the ledge. ; )


Then, have a cutscene of the attacker tossing the two severed limbs into the pit after the body falls and saying "See you at the party, Richtor!" [/Total Recall]