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ptdc
04-14-2004, 12:38 AM
Today I sat down and completely restructured the html and css for my site. I wrote many hundreds of lines of code until I looked at it in my browser and truly it was a thing of pant-creaming beauty. I carefully uploaded it and validated the css. Then as I unleashed my creation onto the world, I find it doesn't work in IE. It works, it just doesn't look anything like it's supposed to.

So, why is this. It's because IE is quite frankly ****. On top of poor support for standards, you have outdated poor support for standards. CSS makes it easier to maintain sites, create complex layouts and do things that would be hard or impossible to do any other way. Unfortunately most of the people browsing the web put up with limited css support and table based websites because they're too lazy/stupid to install a real browser.

I haven't even started to mention the other reasons why IE is terrible (terrible, terrible). So why don't you go and do yourselves and everybody else a favour and
install firefox today (http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/) .

Huz
04-14-2004, 12:40 AM
LINUX!

Lots of Windows updates (http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com) released today for right-thinking Internet Explorer, Outlook Express and Windows XP users, by the way. Install them or weep at a later date.

Still, LINUX!

ptdc
04-14-2004, 12:42 AM
Is great, I know. But what are you huz? Lazy, stupid or perhaps just stubborn?

Huz
04-14-2004, 12:43 AM
All three, bre!

ptdc
04-14-2004, 12:47 AM
OH ho!

MrManager
04-14-2004, 01:34 AM
Anyway, yes, Firefox takes a dump on IE. ;

Thrik
04-14-2004, 02:31 AM
Indeed!

Internet Explorer users are treated to a "GET FIREBOX" button on thrik.net (http://www.thrik.net), and rightly so.

MrManager
04-14-2004, 02:44 AM
Strangely enough the same link appears at http://www.remi1000.com. ;D

Thrik
04-14-2004, 03:16 AM
Indeed, as it was graciously stolen without any prior permission or consent! ;D

Alien426
04-14-2004, 05:09 AM
Strangely enough there is no "GET FIREBOX" button on PCgameScore.de (http://www.pcgamescore.de).

Makes one think...

Maybe to some users the Firefox browser still feels kinda awkward.

Maybe some people think that the browser that is used by most people is some kind of standard, instead of a standard that a doubya consortium decides on.

ptdc
04-14-2004, 10:05 AM
There used to be a get firefox button on my site too, but I haven't put it back after the redesign. Also my site works in ie now after fiddling with the css and adding the alpha png fix.

Isak
04-14-2004, 10:42 AM
Umm... What is "firefox"? :rolleyes:

Feral
04-14-2004, 10:42 AM
Downloaded it after thois thread broke the camel's back with barrages of insistence that I do. And I must say, it is better than IE. Don't delay like me. Get it today!

Alien426
04-14-2004, 11:56 AM
Or try MyIE (http://www.myie2.com/) which spares you the trouble of finding the right extensions for tabbed browsing, mouse gestures, drag&drop...

ptdc
04-14-2004, 01:37 PM
You seem to have missed the point that the ie engine is TERRIBLE. Also, it's not exactly hard to go to the extension site and download a few plugins. MyIE is as bad as normal IE.

bgbennyboy
04-14-2004, 01:42 PM
The Benster recomends Avant Browser (http://www.avantbrowser.com/), I prefer it to MyIE

MrManager
04-14-2004, 02:39 PM
Avant is memory leak central, and it still doesn't fix the horribly outdated IE engine. :¬:

James Isaac
04-14-2004, 02:43 PM
What's the difference between mozilla and firefox?

i'm confused :confused:

MrManager
04-14-2004, 02:58 PM
The Mozilla browser and Firefox are two different browsers using the same engine. They're both developed by the Mozilla foundation. Firefox and Thunderbird (the mail client) are supposed to replace the Mozilla suite in not too long. The final versions of those apps are supposedly going to be ready this summer.

Thrik
04-14-2004, 03:04 PM
By all means Alien426, continue using the IE engine, with its outdated CSS1 support and total lack of inherent support for png image alpha layers.

IE may have the dominance right now over the internet population, but bear in mind that it is essentially running on technology that is years old now and doesn't support a lot of things that should have been supported properly years ago.

People are beginning to realise this, mind. I checked a statistics table recently and mozilla users have jumped from around 3% to around 13% in the past few years. Look down on that statistic as you will, but that is thousands and thousands of users. It can only gain momentum as those people spread the word.

Hopefully IE and it's lackies will be knocked right down in the next few years. Yarr.

bgbennyboy
04-14-2004, 05:06 PM
You bunch of browser snobs :¬:

Alien426
04-14-2004, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by ptdc
Also, it's not exactly hard to go to the extension site and download a few plugins.
But what is hard is to find the extension that does what you want. If somebody directs me to all the extensions to get full MyIE functionality I will happily use Firefox. Until that time I just can't be bothered. Half-arsed, huge tabs that can't be dragged, you can't drag links to open in a new tab...

What can I say... I'm spoiled.

Thrik
04-14-2004, 05:58 PM
Typing "firefox extensions" into google isn't hard. The first result (on texturizer) has pretty much every extension you'd ever need, including "Tabbrowser Extensions" which contains said drag/drop functionality, dragging links into new tabs, reordering, saving tabs when you close down, etc.

ptdc
04-14-2004, 07:49 PM
Every time somebody puts up with using ie or even worse enjoys using ie, a kitten dies. Do it for the kittens.

Kjølen
04-14-2004, 11:34 PM
I Proudly say I've been using Mozilla FireFox 0.8.

I also say that FireBird 0.7 was a bit more stable than FireFox, oddly.

Joshi
04-15-2004, 03:33 PM
Oh hell, everyones telling me tyo use it and IE possible has more problems than windows itself (don't quote me on that). I'm downloading Firefox 0.8 (I think)

Joshi
04-15-2004, 04:04 PM
Wow. I just have to say, I can't believe I'm this late in the browser game, but this is really a great browser. Little bits will take a while to get used to, but apart from that, it's actually ages ahead of IE. Thanks for the tip guys and I suggest everyone have a try of this.

Ray Jones
04-15-2004, 05:53 PM
yeah. firefox is fast, reliable and it starts in no time. it also comes without a heavy-weight setup routine. software how i like it. still using the old version (firebird 0.7) though.

Ryam BaCo
04-15-2004, 07:06 PM
pah...i'm an opera-whore ;)

ptdc
04-15-2004, 11:14 PM
Ahh, I love it when people see the light ;) Opera is ok except a. it messes up my site b. you have to pay for it if you don't want banners. c. yes I know you can crack it, but that's cheating.

MrManager
04-15-2004, 11:52 PM
Opera is as good (in some ways even better) than Firefox when it comes to standards, so my guess is that the problem's with your code. ;-*

ptdc
04-16-2004, 12:11 AM
My code is fine, dude. The version of opera I have installed displayed things correctly when I used my ie css. I just need to fix up some javascript to get it working with opera as well as ie.

Isak
04-16-2004, 06:47 AM
Opera is good, but does anyone use it nowadays?

Alia
04-17-2004, 07:23 PM
In my foolish youth I used Internet Explorer. Now I browse the web using something made of broken pencils, shredded newspapers and a bootlace, and it is much, much, much better.

Ryam BaCo
04-17-2004, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by ptdc
Ahh, I love it when people see the light ;) Opera is ok except a. it messes up my site b. you have to pay for it if you don't want banners. c. yes I know you can crack it, but that's cheating.
no problem. i'm a banner-whore too.
but tabbed-browsing is toooooo cooollll and this "continue-work-where-you-stopped-after-opera-crashed-down" toooooooo!

Joshi
04-18-2004, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by Ryam BaCo
no problem. i'm a banner-whore too.
but tabbed-browsing is toooooo cooollll and this "continue-work-where-you-stopped-after-opera-crashed-down" toooooooo!

Hmm lets' see, Firefox has no banners, firefox has tab browsing (way cool) adn fireforx doesn't crash down. So I see why you've chosen Opera.

DrMcCoy
04-18-2004, 06:05 PM
if you want a fast browser, use dillo (http://www.dillo.org)

Ryam BaCo
04-18-2004, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by Joshi
Hmm lets' see, Firefox has no banners, firefox has tab browsing (way cool) adn fireforx doesn't crash down. So I see why you've chosen Opera.
other words for the same thing: after i close opera intentionally (including all the happy tabpages) and when i start mr. opera again i can continue doing stuff with all the tabpages that were open last time.

afaik firefox doesn't provide this feature yet. so i'm using opera.

Thrik
04-18-2004, 10:51 PM
The tab extension which I mentioned above does it.

scabb
04-18-2004, 10:58 PM
You can get an extension for Firefox that does that, although Opera still does it better.

edit: Just in case you didn't believe Thrik.