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View Full Version : Clone Wars = US Civil War


Darth Windu
04-16-2004, 07:57 AM
Yes, i know this probably shouldnt be here, but i dont visit any of the other sections here, so here goes.

If anyone hadnt noticed by now, the Clone Wars in Star Wars is based on the American Civil War. Why do i say this? Because of the following-

1. Physical resemblance between Count Dooku and General Lee

2. Confederacy of Independant Systems, Confederate states

3. Count Dooku used to serve the Republic then helped create the Confederacy, General Lee used to serve the United States then supported the Confederacy

4. There was actually a real-life organisation known as the 'Grand Army of the Republic' (no, i'm not joking). It was an organisation of Honourably discharged Sailors, Soldiers and Marines who served in the Union's forces during the Civil War.

5. General Lee and General Grant served together in the US Army, Count Dooku and Mace Windu are 'old friends'

I'm sure someone could come up with more if they were actually researching this, but i just thought it might be fun to bring it up. :)

FroZticles
04-16-2004, 08:41 AM
Whats the big deal Lucas already said he gets some of his ideas from modern day wars its the only way people can relate.

MasterN64
04-16-2004, 11:13 AM
Yes, you are right there are many similarities. George Lucas probably did get ideas from the American Civil War as well. I just found out sometihng as well. Possibly Robert E. Lee is a ancestor of Christopher Lee? I'd be a longshot, but they do have similarities. Any thoughts?

Admiral Vostok
04-16-2004, 04:20 PM
I severely doubt the ancestry thing seeing as Christopher Lee is British.

I'd say there are similarities but it is not intended as a strong metaphor. The same as The Battle of Endor was not a strong metaphor for Vietnam, but it shared many similarities.

In particular I don't think your first point is valid, as there were much stronger reasons for casting Lee other than any superficial resemblence to General - especially when that resemblance is only the fact they both have beards. :rolleyes:

saberhagen
04-16-2004, 05:06 PM
I agree with Vostok, although I have to emphasise that Dooku and Bobby Lee both had white beards. But then so does Santa Claus.

I would say that the clone wars were nothing like the ACW except in a very superficial way (it was a civil war and involved the word "confederacy", but it's not that unusual for a civil war involving secession to be have a confederacy as one of the factions is it?). In the clone wars, both sides were being manipulated by Darth Sidious. His only aim was to get into a position of supreme power. There are better (although still not exact) parallells in ancient Rome (eg, Crassus or Julius Caesar).

And again, it's not that unusual for a republic to call its army the "Grand Army of the Republic". All these terms are fairly generic. And in a civil war, it's not unusual for a general to fight against the government he once served.

Maybe we should start a history forum so we can take Windu baiting to a whole new level... ;)

Admiral Vostok
04-16-2004, 05:24 PM
Actually saberhagen is right in that it resembles ancient Rome a whole lot more, especially concerning bureaucracy in the senate and the fact that a Republic becomes an Empire.

Make up your own mind about any similarities between the Lees:
http://www.civilwarhome.com/images/lee.jpghttp://www.starwars.com/databank/character/countdooku/img/movie_bg.jpg

pbguy1211
04-16-2004, 06:17 PM
Yeah... damn those confed troopers and their slavery... you can compare certain aspects but on the whole it's not even close.

And Christopher Lee is cast in any role because of his commanding voice and screen presence.

Admiral Vostok
04-16-2004, 07:48 PM
Actually I think one of the reasons Christopher Lee was cast in Star Wars was a s a reference to the casting of Peter Cushing as Grand Moff Tarkin in the original. Cushing was probably the second most famous actor in Star Wars after Alec Guiness at the time it was made. As you may know, Lee and Cushing were the stars of the Hammer Horror film movement that came out of Britain. Lee starred as Count Dracula in nearly all of the Dracula movies, while Cushing starred as Doctor Frankenstein in nearly all the Frankenstein movies. There are even a couple of Dracula movies where Cushing makes an appearance as Van Helsing, while I believe Lee played Frankenstein's Monster in the first Frankenstein movie. Anyhow I think this connection cannot be ignored and would have at least influenced Lee's casting.

At least a lot more so than his resemblence to Robert E Lee.

lukeiamyourdad
04-16-2004, 11:42 PM
I bet it's the same reason the cast him for LotR.

Darth Windu
04-17-2004, 05:36 AM
I'm not saying there is a HUGE connection, just that there is one. With the saga, there are links with the US Civil War, Nazi Germany, Republican --> Imperial Rome etc

Sithmaster_821
04-17-2004, 12:18 PM
The GAR was not a entity that fought in the war per se. It was a post-war veterans group that, essentially, lobbied for veteran's interests and rights. It was a political organization, not a regiment.

pbguy1211
04-17-2004, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
I bet it's the same reason the cast him for LotR.

That was THE main reason he was cast in LOTR. And Lucas said something similar in the bonus footage on the Ep. 2 DVD.

Admiral Vostok
04-18-2004, 03:35 AM
Originally posted by pbguy1211
That was THE main reason he was cast in LOTR. And Lucas said something similar in the bonus footage on the Ep. 2 DVD. Yeah, I think he said that around the time they put vampire fangs on the stand-in Yoda during the shooting of the final duel. Quite amusing :D

saberhagen
04-18-2004, 11:04 AM
There are also similarities with The Wicker Man in the way Padme, Anakin and Obi Wan are led into the arena to be ritually executed. If only Edward Woodward had a clone army to rescue him...