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View Full Version : An Idea to get LEC to uncancel S&M2 (Maybe)


Bobo Donkey™
04-24-2004, 05:45 PM
After careful evaluation of the stuff goin on with LucasArts and their disregard for adventure games, I have thought of something (please forgive me if it sounds like I'm speaking crap, but I'm slightly drunk just as I'm typing this).

I'm saying that because LucasArts couldnt give a damn about adventure games, it seems like they are abandoning them.
Therefore they might as well be considered "abandonware".
We should have a serious discussion about this as I suggest that some of us (or someone) host an abandonware site purely for LucasArts games.

The good thing about this is that we could use this to blackmail LucasArts into uncanceling Sam & Max.
The bad news is, Ron Gilbert and all the other guys who created those games might be kinda upset (either that or I just feel guilty because it their games) or LucasArts might ignore the blackmail and just sue me anyway (or you, if you decide to host them).

Like I said, this should be discussed first before we all agree on it.

I'm gonna go get another beer and then join the party (Its grampas 80th birthday today and hes a rather wonderful guy)

James Isaac
04-24-2004, 06:09 PM
I don't think LucasArts will really care if we do that...

I am almost certain we won't be able to persuade them with things like that.... They will be making enough money anway, and won't care about that. If anything, it will make the situation worse, by making less people buy adventure games, and more people download them, so LucasArts think they are even more unpopular

cappuchok
04-24-2004, 06:20 PM
Nope, that's no good. Thanks for trying, though.

Reason: LucasArts are still selling their old adventure games, so they're not abandoned. Without even looking very hard, I can find at least the following in their online store: Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, Sam & Max, Day of the Tentacle, Grim Fandango, Full Throttle, Escape from Monkey Island and Curse of Monkey Island.
I think it's safe to say the others are available to those who actually ask (I did once and was promptly given the answer that yes, they were available even though they were not listed, but only within the US / Canada).
So given LucasArts history of fiercely defending their adventures from the "abandonware" label, I think it's safe to say anyone attempting such a thing would be sued before he could say "I'm Guybrush Threepwood". They're NOT abandoned, and that, as they say, is that.

Strangely enough, the Sam & Max / Full Throttle available now are NOT the Windows versions. The LucasArts Archives with the Windows versions has been replaced by the older DOS versions. Odd. Very odd. Anyone got more info on that?

Joshi
04-24-2004, 06:51 PM
I'm intrigued, how is this helping getting Sam n Max uncancelled, what kind of leverage is a threat that you'll open a site for downloading LucasArts games. I mean, if you do threaten them with this, they'll just counter by threatening to sue you if you do, and considering LucasArts is owned by George Lucas, I'm pretty sure getting really good legal representaion won't be hard for them, where as you probably couldn't afford a free lawyer.

Alltogether a bad idea.

Bobo Donkey™
04-24-2004, 07:02 PM
Perhaps an alternative solution (I'll probably regret this suggestion when I've sobered up because its sounds stupid)

Make fan games that are EXACT copys of the original. But I suppose that'd be useless too.

If i could magically become the predisent of LA then I'd make then uncancel it (Ihats what evry1 would do thiough)

I think its time for another beer. Dicsuss this stuff some more. Amd mabye we can kome up with a bettre idea.

James Isaac
04-24-2004, 07:19 PM
If we make exact copies then that is copying their copyright material.

Bobo Donkey™
04-24-2004, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by James Isaac
If we make exact copies then that is copying their copyright material.

EXACTLY. If they tell us to take these fan games down, then they have to promise to uncancel Sam & Max. By doing this we could also show them the online petition and other stuff that shows that we want it. But then again, they might just ignore these "Fan games" in the same way they ignore the other stuff that I mentioned.

idi0t
04-24-2004, 08:55 PM
They DON'T have to promise anything. No one is that stupid. You sound like a kid who's got no idea what he's talking about.

It's ILLEGAL!

James Isaac
04-24-2004, 09:08 PM
If they tell us to take these fan games down, then they have to promise to uncancel Sam & Max.

Or they could just sue us.

The Tingler
04-24-2004, 09:11 PM
Still, I think "more fan games" is a good idea. Trouble is, Sam & Max is owned by Steve Purcell - we could get his permission, I suppose.

As for President, that position is still vacant since Simon Jeffery abruptly left, and a drunk donkey can do the job as well as Emperor Nelson, so go for it.

Unfortunately, while I love the optimism, there have already been dozens of good reasons to un-cancel the game slung in LucasArts' direction, and they've ignored all of them because it's easier to put their fingers in their ears and go "la la la, I'm not listening, la la la" and rely on their Star Wars games to get the cash.

To recount the availability situation, here in the UK you can pick up Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine, Grim Fandango, Curse of Monkey Island, Escape From Monkey Island, The Dig and Full Throttle all easily, with a recent Sam & Max/Day of the Tentacle double pack lurking around in a few shops too.

Udvarnoky
04-24-2004, 09:46 PM
It's annoying to get the games in the U.S. You're lucky if you can find EMI, CMI, or Grim in its jewel case only version in a store. If you want anything older, you can buy Sam & Max, Fate of Atlantis, and DOTT in a 30 dollar compilation only available at the LucasArts company store. Anything older than that...eBay.

Go us. :~

Mafiozi
04-24-2004, 10:18 PM
we should just buy more their adventures, then they will se that everyone still cares about adventure games, and uncancel teh Sam & MAx, unles they made it very bad as with Full Throttle 2:deathii:

Bobo Donkey™
04-24-2004, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by idi0t
They DON'T have to promise anything. No one is that stupid. You sound like a kid who's got no idea what he's talking about.

It's ILLEGAL!

You'd sound like a kid too if you were in the middle of a party, which by the way is still going on, and slowly getting more drunk by the minute (or eating salted rice, which is what i'm doing just now)

Originally posted by The Tingler(Thats a cool name)
Still, I think "more fan games" is a good idea. Trouble is, Sam & Max is owned by Steve Purcell - we could get his permission, I suppose.
Thanx. Someone who AGREES with one of my ideas.

As for President, that position is still vacant since Simon Jeffery abruptly left, and a drunk donkey can do the job as well as Emperor Nelson, so go for it.
You need to remember to add a ™ when referring to me. Theres a difference between donkeys and Donkey™s. Wait a minute... What do you mean EMPEROR Nelson? And what about me doing AS GOOD AS him? I'd do BETTER than that gimp. For one thing I'd uncancel it. But me controlling LucasArts is about as likely as them uncancelling Sam & Max.

Wow. Me starting a thread, then getting severyl replies, then replying a few times ALL ON THE SAME DAY WHEN A PARTY IS GOING ON!! This is a first for me and I think I shall go grab another beer to celebrate.

Bobo Donkey™
04-24-2004, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by Mafiozi
we should just buy more their adventures, then they will se that everyone still cares about adventure games, and uncancel teh Sam & MAx, unles they made it very bad as with Full Throttle 2:deathii:

You have a good point Mafiozi. I must congratulate you on that. Now its time to go get that beer.

Just picked it up from the bathtub. Its full of beers surrounded by cold water, rather clever eh. I should've brought my bottle opener cause the one I used to open teh botle is rather ****e.
Then again I didnt quite expect this computer 2 be here other wise i might've bvrought my andveture games and uploadedthem onto my site.

SamNMax
04-24-2004, 11:26 PM
I know people will hate me, but I think cancelling Sam and Max 2 was the right thing to do. The majority of people wouldn't buy it. And you can rattle on saying that if the Lucasforum goers all baught more adventure games, send them hate mail, ect, then they would bring back SNM2. NO THEY WOULDN'T! 1,xxx people aren't going to convince them. Quit your bitching. Adventure games are dead. Deal with it. If you want to play an adventure game just play Syberia 2 or play the classics. Quit saying Star Wars games are evil. Do you people relize how much money Lucasarts will rake in with KOTOR 2: The Sith Lords, and even still KOTOR 1!?

Udvarnoky
04-25-2004, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by SamNMax
I know people will hate me, but I think cancelling Sam and Max 2 was the right thing to do. The majority of people wouldn't buy it. And you can rattle on saying that if the Lucasforum goers all baught more adventure games, send them hate mail, ect, then they would bring back SNM2. NO THEY WOULDN'T! 1,xxx people aren't going to convince them. Quit your bitching. Adventure games are dead. Deal with it. If you want to play an adventure game just play Syberia 2 or play the classics. Quit saying Star Wars games are evil. Do you people relize how much money Lucasarts will rake in with KOTOR 2: The Sith Lords, and even still KOTOR 1!?

Well, I hate you.

The last adventure game LucasArts made was EMI. That was in 2000. Freelance Police would have been the first point n' click game since CMI. How many Star Wars games have been made since then, and are still being made? How many of them were good? It's the adventure genre that made LucasArts what it is today, not generic Star Wars shooters. The biggest clincher of the situation is the fact that Freelance Police was practically finished development. It's not like LucasArts announced the ****ing game a month ago. Even if the game sold poorly, it would have recouped SOME of the money instead of none of it which is exactly how much they're getting back now. And despite what you believe or want to believe, Sam & Max has a following, and the game, with proper marketing, would have undoubtedly attracted new gamers. Even a Monkey Island game could scare newcomers because it's part of a series, but with Sam & Max they could jump right in. LucasArts canceled the game because they're a bunch of bastards (there may have been some other reasons, but there's no point in bringing that up). While I agree that there's no way LucasArts will bring the game back no matter how many complaints they get, your stance that it was the "right thing to do" is so beyond stupid that I fear you're a LucasArts employee. And you basically just said that Star Wars is good because it makes money. Yes, LucasArts will make money, but they still lost all of their dignity and they still suck. Hard.

Bobo Donkey™
04-25-2004, 01:24 AM
Originally posted by SamNMax
I know people will hate me, but I think cancelling Sam and Max 2 was the right thing to do. The majority of people wouldn't buy it. And you can rattle on saying that if the Lucasforum goers all baught more adventure games, send them hate mail, ect, then they would bring back SNM2. NO THEY WOULDN'T! 1,xxx people aren't going to convince them. Quit your bitching. Adventure games are dead. Deal with it. If you want to play an adventure game just play Syberia 2 or play the classics. Quit saying Star Wars games are evil. Do you people relize how much money Lucasarts will rake in with KOTOR 2: The Sith Lords, and even still KOTOR 1!?

I DONT BELEIVE WHAT I AM HEARING HERE. ADVENTURE GAMES ARE NOT DEAD AND THEy NEVER WILL BE AS LONG AS WE KEEP PLAYING THEM. WHAT YOU JUST SAID IS NOTHING BUT BLASPHEMY. SO THINK TWICE BEFORE SAYING STUFF LIKE THAT.

I'm getting another beer. Don't try to stop me anyone.

FelixTheBat
04-25-2004, 07:07 AM
Hmm.... OR someone could come and help me make a real MI3! And then when Lucas sees the success of it (even though there was CMI, which is in its own right an excellent game) they will by DYING for a piece of the action.

elTee
04-25-2004, 09:26 AM
Tim Schafer once said that he'd rather his old games were distributed for free than that they were forgotten. Not that Bobo Donkeys idea is any good.

Seriously, dude, you need to get a life. You're at a party for Christsakes. What the hell are you doing talking about Sam and Max 2 on the internet for?? When I go out I don't think about LucasArts at all, let alone find a PC and post about it on a forum. Go pull, or at least try. The other think is, when the rest of us go out, we don't post about it. Its not a big thing. You've made a contradiction in terms - you're letting us know that you're not one of these internet geeks who never gets out - you're at a party! But, you're spending the party posting on LucasForums. For shame.

Am I the only person who isn't that bothered about Sam & Max 2? I mean sure, it would be a good game and I'd like to play it... but Jeez, it is just a game guys. Its not the ONLY good game that was in development, is it? I mean, there's more Zelda on they way, for starters.

And, FelixTheBat - real MI3? Do you really think you could make a better game than CMI? I'd love to see you try, man.. really. I mean, even you admit CMI is excellent.

On a serious note, LucasArts don't like fangames. They close most of them down. Why? Because nine times out of ten, they suck. Even if someone made a brilliant fangame and it wasn't shut down, don't think that LucasArts would suddenly realise the "error of their ways" - the game could be played by millions, the fact is it will be free. I don't want to play Half Life 2*, I don't want to buy it. They will make no money from me. But if it was free I'd download it and give it a go - because its free.

* Blantant lie

Bobo Donkey™
04-25-2004, 11:17 AM
I thought it was Dave Grossman that said that. Ah well I knew it was one of them anyway. Last year I emailed Steve Stamatiadis with a link to Amazon Queen on an abandonware site and asked him his opinion. This is what he said.

Abandonware is a term made up so that people don't feel bad when they pirate games which is what is technically what is happening. That said it's a lot harder for a publisher or developer to keep a game running on newer hardware. I guess I'm in the middle ground - it's wrong but I think people should be able to play old games. That's why we've released the FotAQ souce code to the Scumm VM guys to release as freeware.

I dont quite like what you are saying about me. I DO have a life. I use it in a number of ways. I could be on the internet, I could be at a party but this is the FIRST time I have ever gone on the internet during a party. Its not like I'm DEAD or anything. Besides, I said it was my Grampa's birthday party. One of those FAMILY parties. I dont wanna try and pull when my parents are around (and if I did, who would I pull?). So think twice before mocking me (or anyone else in my situation, for that matter).

However, you have made a good point about fangames, so you're comment isnt all that bad.

(And to make a REAL MI3, we should get Ron Gilbert to help us)

The Tingler
04-25-2004, 01:35 PM
Oh, yeah, I forgot about the famous LucasArts Fangame Purge before the release of EFMI.

Is that party over yet?

I couldn't care less about a REAL MI3, I loved both post-Gilbert MIs. Wouldn't mind him back for MI5, but I'm still suspicious of the amount of praise he gets for just those two games. I mean, Tim Schafer was top on the writing list in MI2.

Am I the only person who isn't that bothered about Sam & Max 2? I mean sure, it would be a good game and I'd like to play it... but Jeez, it is just a game guys. Its not the ONLY good game that was in development, is it? I mean, there's more Zelda on they way, for starters.

You're just trying to stir up controversy in this site, aren't you?
You're right, it's a just a game, but it's also unique. Adventure games are all but deaed, and Humorous games are hard to find.
I admit, we're all speculating on how good it was going to be - it could have been rubbish, although I find that hard to believe.

A game is a game, a movie is a movie, a painting is a painting, life goes on... is that what you're saying?

Yes, there are other story-driven games I'm looking forward to. Wind Waker 2, KOTOR2 (if the new development team doesn't ruin it), Half-Life 2, BASS2, Doom3, Thief: Deadly Shadows... but I'd like a good comedy in there. Something that forces me to think about solving puzzles that don't require just pushing a button, pulling a lever or moving a crate.

Ah well. Guess it'll never happen. Something truly unique in the games lineup for this year has been lost. Life goes on.

(In case you're wondering, I went out Friday night and got pissed - I'm fine now)

Udvarnoky
04-25-2004, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by LucasTones
Am I the only person who isn't that bothered about Sam & Max 2? I mean sure, it would be a good game and I'd like to play it... but Jeez, it is just a game guys. Its not the ONLY good game that was in development, is it? I mean, there's more Zelda on they way, for starters.

Yeah, but it would have been a really, really, really good game, and it would have had Sam & Max in it. I seriously haven't gotten over it yet...

elTee
04-25-2004, 04:15 PM
I'm not trying to stir up contraversy at all, I'm just expressing an opinion. Obviously I'd rather Sam and Max 2 was completed and released, but its not going to have a major effect on me now that its cancelled. I emailed Randy Breen, or whatever his name is, and expressed my opinion to him at the time - it was a bad decision, and its sad to see LucasArts reduced to its current state. My simple point is, there is no shortage of good games to play, and I don't just mean the new ones. There are hundreds of games released every year, and I buy maybe ten at most. By my reckoning, there are at least 500 above-average games I've never played.

Okay, Bobo, sorry. I just didn't get why you mentioned beer in all of your posts. No offence intended :)

SamNMax
04-25-2004, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by Bobo Donkey™
I DONT BELEIVE WHAT I AM HEARING HERE. ADVENTURE GAMES ARE NOT DEAD AND THEy NEVER WILL BE AS LONG AS WE KEEP PLAYING THEM. WHAT YOU JUST SAID IS NOTHING BUT BLASPHEMY. SO THINK TWICE BEFORE SAYING STUFF LIKE THAT.
Yeah, adventure games are dead. They don't sell well, and lots of companys quit making them. Eventually no companys will make them and that will be the last nail in the coffin.

ADVENTURE GAMES ARE NOT DEAD AND THEy NEVER WILL BE AS LONG AS WE KEEP PLAYING THEM.

As long as we keep playing them. Well, consider this: When the time comes to never make another adventure game, the old classics will be taken off the shelves as well. And when all those adventure games that your playing to keep the lost cause alive will have to crap out sooner or later. So, the games are broke, they're not on sale anymore, and your forced to give up the cause. Then what?


Am I the only person who isn't that bothered about Sam & Max 2? I mean sure, it would be a good game and I'd like to play it... but Jeez, it is just a game guys. Its not the ONLY good game that was in development, is it? I mean, there's more Zelda on they way, for starters.

I love you

The last adventure game LucasArts made was EMI. That was in 2000. Freelance Police would have been the first point n' click game since CMI. How many Star Wars games have been made since then, and are still being made? How many of them were good? It's the adventure genre that made LucasArts what it is today, not generic Star Wars shooters. The biggest clincher of the situation is the fact that Freelance Police was practically finished development. It's not like LucasArts announced the ****ing game a month ago. Even if the game sold poorly, it would have recouped SOME of the money instead of none of it which is exactly how much they're getting back now. And despite what you believe or want to believe, Sam & Max has a following, and the game, with proper marketing, would have undoubtedly attracted new gamers. Even a Monkey Island game could scare newcomers because it's part of a series, but with Sam & Max they could jump right in. LucasArts canceled the game because they're a bunch of bastards (there may have been some other reasons, but there's no point in bringing that up). While I agree that there's no way LucasArts will bring the game back no matter how many complaints they get, your stance that it was the "right thing to do" is so beyond stupid that I fear you're a LucasArts employee. And you basically just said that Star Wars is good because it makes money. Yes, LucasArts will make money, but they still lost all of their dignity and they still suck. Hard.

I do agree with you that when a game's 80% done, you might as well finish it. But again, you have to admit, no one would buy it. And you bring up EMI. Well, remember how excited everyone was about it's announcement? And you finnaly played it and most people were enourmously disappointed? Well, for that reason, I belive that Lucasarts has lost their touch when it comes to adventure games and that is why they're so dependent on Star Wars games.
And by the way, the EMI disappointment and Sam And Max cansallation; would SNM2 take the same route as EMI? Would people complain that SNM2 wasn't nearly as good as they thought it would?

Brushguy
04-25-2004, 08:37 PM
Here's my opinion:

For those who say adventure games are dead: that is a flat out lie. Big business heads just don't see it and feel safer surrounded by piles and piles of Star Wars trash, because they know that it makes money. Nobody takes risks anymore, and that's why adventure games are dead and are being over run by endless amounts of ridiculous shooters, RPGs, so on.

To make an adventure game means to take a chance on people buying it, just because it's different. Any sales department person knows that there are geeks and nerds out there who will buy any game with a Star Wars label, or if the game has a picture of some idiot waving a gun around on the front.

A poll said that in 2002, 14 games that were not sequels or were original were released, and in 2003, only two. Isn't that depressing?

If Lucasarts would turn around and change back into the good company that they used to be, to turn into the company that got them to where they stand now, then they would start making quality adventures again. If they started making adventures that were good, again, they'd get a lot of money, and other companies would see it too, and would want to get in on it. Then, and only then, would a revival of adventure games happen, and the final downfall of the first-person shooter genre, the games of which require no thought whatsoever.

EMI was only a flop among us fans who had seen better days. Everybody who has it that I know say they love it, and EGM rated it 9.0 out of 10.

But back to Sam and Max 2. Lucasarts has heard our deafening cry of complaint and I feel that right now we've done all that we can do. They know now that there are more fans than they originally thought. They need to do something about it, and I believe that they will. Besides, if they meant "put on hold for later" instead of "cancelled" with that press release, we can stop bugging them and trying to blackmail them. This is not the first game in the 35-year-history of video games that has been put on hold to be picked up again in the future.

Finally, in closing, I believe they will resurrect Sam and Max 2 in the near future. Call me an idiot all you want but you will not budge my opinion.

Udvarnoky
04-25-2004, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by SamNMax
And you bring up EMI. Well, remember how excited everyone was about it's announcement? And you finnaly played it and most people were enourmously disappointed? Well, for that reason, I belive that Lucasarts has lost their touch when it comes to adventure games and that is why they're so dependent on Star Wars games.
And by the way, the EMI disappointment and Sam And Max cansallation; would SNM2 take the same route as EMI? Would people complain that SNM2 wasn't nearly as good as they thought it would?

First of all, EMI wasn't a terrible game. And anyway, Sam & Max was a different situation because it would bring back the point 'n click interface that many people missed from EMI. Now, since I'll never get the chance to play Freelance Police, I don't know whether or not I would have been disappointed or how much I would have been disappointed. I do know that the little that I saw of the game looked amazing to me, and Purcell as well as Stemmle (who were both, of course, involved with Hit the Road) gave nothing but good comments on the game's progression. And in my opinion, Stemmle's humor is much more fit for Sam & Max than Monkey Island. (And regardless of how we feel about EMI, the game sold decently and received good reviews, so it was hardly a failure.)

The reason LucasArts is more dependent on Star Wars is due to laziness and a lack of originality, plain and simple. Sam & Max doesn't have the biggest following in the world, but it was apparently big enough to cause a stir within a mainstream audience and major magazines. The game was almost done, they might as well have finished it. But they didn't, so now they have on-hand cash to spend on Star Wars and generic 3rd person shooter games.

I'm not stupid. I know the game doesn't have a chance anymore. I'm probably going to bottle up my immense hatred and disappointment and take it to my grave. Weep for me.

SamNMax
04-25-2004, 09:16 PM
I'm no troll. I know when I've been defeated in an arguement. So, insted of not posting anything because I've been proven wrong, I'll leave you with this: You're right. I'm wrong. You guys put up a great fight, and you won. Good job.

The Tingler
04-25-2004, 10:10 PM
There is one point in all this that I don't understand.

I think that this was a bad move by LucasArts, and will do whatever I can to get the game reinstated, however unlikely or close to impossible that may be.
I will concede that Adventures may have had their day and that SamNMax may be right, however depressing it may seem. If publishers don't want to support them and developers don't want to make them, then that's it: nothing we can do about it but play other story-driven games.
I may also say that LucasArts, consequently, knew that the game would not be a success. It was also not taking any risks, in fact it was going BACKWARDS - point n' click. At least RTX Red Rock, for example, was trying to do something different.

But this is the point:
"After careful evaluation of current market place realities and underlying economic considerations, we've decided that this was not the appropriate time to launch a graphic adventure on the PC"

What makes NOW such a different time to when Sam & Max was announced? Why was it, and Full Throttle, allowed to continue when LucasArts already knew what the market was like? Why didn't they perform this "evaluation" BEFORE they spend thousands of dollars on a game they're destined to cancel?

SamNMax
04-25-2004, 11:23 PM
You make an excellent point er, The Tingler. I belive if Simon Geoffory didn't quit, we'd all be playing Sam and Max 2 and possibly be waiting for some new sequals. But alas, Lucasarts is ran only by a few corporate suites. I say, someone needs to step up to the plate and take Simon's place. I think I'm just the man for the job. :D

cappuchok
04-26-2004, 12:13 PM
By the way, and digressing slightly from what has been heard this far in this thread, I wonder if anyone has any information on why the LucasArts Archives with Sam & Max, Full Throttle, The Dig and Grim was withdrawn and replaced with a smaller, DOS-only "Archive" compilation? Was LucasArts unhappy with the 2.0 series Scumm engine? Were they unhappy with Aaron Giles' involvement in the MAME project? Or did they simply admit their defeat and concede that ScummVM was a better engine?

Let the speculation commence... :)

Joshi
04-26-2004, 01:22 PM
Okay, so what have we learned so far? Adventure games are far from dead, the thread starter has a contadicted life in the way of living one without actually having one and alcohol causes people to think irrationally.

I can safely say that the majority of us only learned one new thing in this thread and it's not even worth knowing. Well done everyone!

The Tingler
04-26-2004, 02:09 PM
Oh great, now Joshi's drunk too.

Bobo Donkey™
04-26-2004, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by LucasTones
Okay, Bobo, sorry. I just didn't get why you mentioned beer in all of your posts. No offence intended :)

Don't worry 'Tones. You are forgiven. Apology accepted.

Originally posted by The Tingler
Is that party over yet?

Yes it is. I have now returned to my home town and I am now in college. The next time I get drunk and go on the internet at the same time wont be for another while yet.

Originally posted by Joshi
Okay, so what have we learned so far? Adventure games are far from dead...
True.
...the thread starter has a contadicted life in the way of living one without actually having one...
I'm puzzled. Please explain this one.
...and alcohol causes people to think irrationally.
My drunken thought are actually more rational now than they were a couple of years ago (even though I wouldnt get that drunk back then)

Originally posted by cappuchok
By the way, and digressing slightly from what has been heard this far in this thread, I wonder if anyone has any information on why the LucasArts Archives with Sam & Max, Full Throttle, The Dig and Grim was withdrawn and replaced with a smaller, DOS-only "Archive" compilation? Was LucasArts unhappy with the 2.0 series Scumm engine? Were they unhappy with Aaron Giles' involvement in the MAME project? Or did they simply admit their defeat and concede that ScummVM was a better engine?

You've got a good point there. Maybe they admitted defeat to ScummVM. I can see why though. Playing the windows version of Full Throttle and Sam&Max on my machine is an impossibility because I dont have any 3D accelerator or anything.

Udvarnoky
04-26-2004, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by cappuchok
By the way, and digressing slightly from what has been heard this far in this thread, I wonder if anyone has any information on why the LucasArts Archives with Sam & Max, Full Throttle, The Dig and Grim was withdrawn and replaced with a smaller, DOS-only "Archive" compilation? Was LucasArts unhappy with the 2.0 series Scumm engine? Were they unhappy with Aaron Giles' involvement in the MAME project? Or did they simply admit their defeat and concede that ScummVM was a better engine?

Let the speculation commence... :)

Didn't the original compilation have only the DOS versions as well? I believe it's only the UK that was graced with the XP-compatible versions...unless you count the screwed-up Armed and Dangerous preview disc.

So to answer your question, I'd guess laziness.

cappuchok
04-26-2004, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by Bobo Donkey™

You've got a good point there. Maybe they admitted defeat to ScummVM. I can see why though. Playing the windows version of Full Throttle and Sam&Max on my machine is an impossibility because I dont have any 3D accelerator or anything. [/B]
Now *I*'m puzzled. The Windows versions of Full Throttle and Sam & Max don't require a 3D accelerator. They're just Windows-natively compiled versions of the Scumm interpreter with some fancy-shmancy addons like interpolated graphics and (thank goodness) aspect ratio correction.

The new engines are very good. ScummVM is still miles better, though. Most likely because the Scumm 2.0 engines were the work of one man mostly used to Mac programming, while ScummVM is a continuing team effort.

Originally posted by Udvarnoky

Didn't the original compilation have only the DOS versions as well? I believe it's only the UK that was graced with the XP-compatible versions...unless you count the screwed-up Armed and Dangerous preview disc.
After checking, I can tell you that you are correct. The Windows versions created by MAME coder Aaron Giles are only available in Europe (even says so on Aaron's website) and yes, the US preview disc of Armed & Dangerous IS messed up from the factory (also says so on Aaron's website).

So after careful consideration, I've also come to the conclusion that LucasArts are simply too lazy to code new engines. The decision to add Windows engines to the EU versions was probably made by Activision.

But I'm disturbed to see that Maniac Mansion is no longer available from LucasArts. It was available in the original LucasArts Archives compilation as late as last December, I think, along with Zak, Monkey 1 and Loom. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Joshi
04-26-2004, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by Bobo Donkey™
I'm puzzled. Please explain this one.

Forget it, either you get it or you don't.

Originally posted by Bobo Donkey™
My drunken thought are actually more rational now than they were a couple of years ago (even though I wouldnt get that drunk back then)

Explaining why you think that you can do something illegal to a huge company and not only not get sued, but actually have them beg you to stop in return for finishing a game they cancelled over 2 months ago. Yeah, has ration all over it.

Think about this for a minute, if a bear was chewing on your leg with a sign saying "I'll let go for some honey" and you're holding a gun, would you go for the honey in the bee's hive?

Udvarnoky
04-27-2004, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by cappuchok

But I'm disturbed to see that Maniac Mansion is no longer available from LucasArts. It was available in the original LucasArts Archives compilation as late as last December, I think, along with Zak, Monkey 1 and Loom. Correct me if I'm wrong.

That wasn't an Archives compilation; it was was the Classic Adventures pack. It was indeed removed from the company store by LucasArts several months ago. It's the most unwelcome discontinuation ever as far as I'm concerned. It wiped out the enhanced version of MM, any version of Zak, any version of Indy3, any version of Loom, and the floppy disk version of Monkey1 by official means.

I really wish LucasArts would get all of their old games officially updated with Aaron's engine, even though SCUMMVM is much better. Like Jake suggested, they could just put patches up on the website.

SamNMax
04-27-2004, 09:06 PM
Actually, the Classic Adventures pack is still availible. They don't have a link on their site, but I got a different link to it, ordered it, and it got to me.

Udvarnoky
04-27-2004, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by SamNMax
Actually, the Classic Adventures pack is still availible. They don't have a link on their site, but I got a different link to it, ordered it, and it got to me.

There was a time where it wasn't linked to for awhile, but the page could still be accessed and the pack could still be ordered. They took it down for good, though.

cappuchok
04-28-2004, 06:40 AM
Originally posted by Udvarnoky
That wasn't an Archives compilation; it was was the Classic Adventures pack. It was indeed removed from the company store by LucasArts several months ago. It's the most unwelcome discontinuation ever as far as I'm concerned. It wiped out the enhanced version of MM, any version of Zak, any version of Indy3, any version of Loom, and the floppy disk version of Monkey1 by official means.
No kidding. I was proud to say to people who looked with disdain on classic games: "Hey, look - LucasArts are still selling even Maniac Mansion, so it HAS to be good!". Now it seems I can't even cite LucasArts as a good example anymore... :(

Originally posted by Udvarnoky I really wish LucasArts would get all of their old games officially updated with Aaron's engine, even though SCUMMVM is much better. Like Jake suggested, they could just put patches up on the website.
Yeah. Once, they said they'd use ScummVM as a sort of "authorized" engine (Ender, please confirm) but somehow it never came to pass.
Another nail in the coffin for humorous adventure games in general, and LucasArts adventures in particular.
I don't think LEC has been in touch with Aaron since he left them to work for Connectix. I think the Windows engines was purely an idea of Activision's and not really checked with LucasArts (if they had, these versions would sure be for sale in LucasArts online store as well, since J. Random Gamer these days don't know how to optimize a DOS environment. A sad state of affairs, really.

The Tingler
04-28-2004, 08:05 AM
Why is this such a big concern? Surely you can just play MM from within DOTT instead?

And MM IS a little old now. MI1 & 2 still work because not only do they still look quite respectable (no worse than The Dig or Full Throttle), they're the famous pair with two recent sequels. Anything older and most people will just look at them in disgust, then hopefully turn to Sam & Max, DOTT etc.

Frankly, MM bored the arse off me.

DrMcCoy
04-28-2004, 08:15 AM
well, i loved (and still do) maniac mansion and zak mckracken...

cappuchok
04-28-2004, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by The Tingler
Why is this such a big concern? Surely you can just play MM from within DOTT instead?
Yes and no. Because you can't play DOTT under XP. Not with the real, original engine anyway. Of course, if you have ScummVM and DOTT, you can load up Maniac Mansion from the folder within the DOTT folder and play MM separately, but not from within DOTT (ScummVM doesn't support that game-in-game feature yet).
For those who care about the original gameplay and nostalgia in general, the original MM and Zak not being sold anymore is VERY sad.

Originally posted by The Tingler
And MM IS a little old now. MI1 & 2 still work because not only do they still look quite respectable (no worse than The Dig or Full Throttle), they're the famous pair with two recent sequels. Anything older and most people will just look at them in disgust, then hopefully turn to Sam & Max, DOTT etc.

Frankly, MM bored the arse off me. [/B]
Maniac Mansion and Zak represents the very beginning of the greatness which LucasArts had up to around the Curse of Monkey Island, and then rapidly lost as they turned into the not quite infinite bunch of monkeys churning out half-baked Star Wars license games by the hundreds (well, it feels like it). And that's coming from a Star Wars fan, so don't get the idea that I'm some anything-but-adventures-suck type of gamer.

As for Monkey Island, I'm not counting COMI and EMI as true sequels, but more of spin-offs. Until Ron Gilbert completes the trilogy (that he has stated it was supposed to be, and it rings true with MI2 having a somewhat darker ending than the first one, along the lines of George Lucas' trilogies (Indy, Star Wars)) we won't know the real Secret of Monkey Island. But that's outside the topic of this thread. Oh well.

Udvarnoky
04-28-2004, 09:18 AM
DOTT contains the older graphics version of MM. The classic adventures pack contained the ehnanced gaphics version.

Oh, and MM was a great game. I'll defend it 'till the end!

The Tingler
04-28-2004, 11:32 AM
Maniac Mansion and Zak represents the very beginning of the greatness which LucasArts had up to around the Curse of Monkey Island, and then rapidly lost

Just have to point out - Grim Fandango came after Curse. Whatever your views on EFMI (I personally love it), you can't deny that Grim is one of LucasArts' finest hours, if not the pinnacle of creative genius in the computer game world.

elTee
04-28-2004, 12:46 PM
But Grim Fandango took like 2 years to make, and was written (I assume) entirely by Tim Schafer.

cappuchok
04-29-2004, 03:50 AM
Originally posted by The Tingler
Just have to point out - Grim Fandango came after Curse. Whatever your views on EFMI (I personally love it), you can't deny that Grim is one of LucasArts' finest hours, if not the pinnacle of creative genius in the computer game world.
Oops - my bad. Of course, Grim is really great, both in concept and execution. But as LucasTones points out, it was basically one man's labor of love, and not representative of the concurrent LucasArts titles.
At that time, LEC had already outsourced most of their development. The only really good games developed out-of-house at that time (IMHO) are the ones from Factor 5 (Rogue Squadron). Even though not really simulators, the Rogue games are still the best LEC flight-"sims" to have been released post-TIE-Fighter.

The Tingler
04-29-2004, 11:00 AM
I wish the emphasis was on "basically" in that sentence, but frankly the whole sentence is misplaced. Trying to put Grim Fandango in the same context as a movie is not in any way accurate. Calling Grim the work of one man is a little off. Personally I think Peter McConnell (music), Peter Chan (art) and, uh, Peter, um, something (whatsisname who plays Manny) deserve their involvement credits, to sortof name just three guys.

cappuchok
04-29-2004, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by The Tingler
I wish the emphasis was on "basically" in that sentence, but frankly the whole sentence is misplaced. Trying to put Grim Fandango in the same context as a movie is not in any way accurate. Calling Grim the work of one man is a little off. Personally I think Peter McConnell (music), Peter Chan (art) and, uh, Peter, um, something (whatsisname who plays Manny) deserve their involvement credits, to sortof name just three guys.
Same context as a movie? What ARE you talking about - I did no such thing.
The "one man's work" of course does not exclude that fact that there were many talented people working on it. I'm pointing out that Grim was way above and beyond anything LucasArts has churned out since Curse of Monkey Island. At the time Grim was released, the average LucasArts title was already crap. Grim was better than the rest, and so it was not representative of the rest of the concurrent LucasArts lineup.
When Curse of Monkey Island was released, LEC at least still had a decent number of good titles in their lineup, but after that, Grim and (depending on your opinion) EFMI have been the only two REALLY good games to depart from the LucasArts production line. Again, this is IMHO, of course.

elTee
04-29-2004, 03:58 PM
To TheTingler - Escape From Monkey Island also had great music, great art, and great voice acting - but it wasn't even close to Grim Fandango. Story, and writing is 90% of the job, baby!!

To Cappuchok - I agree, the Factor 5 games are awesome :)

Joshi
04-29-2004, 05:46 PM
Please note, EMI's great artwork was the only original thing for the game considering the casting for guybrush, lechuck and murray (the only good actors in the game) was all done in CMI and the theme music was completely taken from CMI as apose to the rest that, whilst using the same tune, used different ways to do them with different instuments and so on (or as best could be done with MIDI's for the first 2 and the third was just awe inspired).

Okay, sure, a lot of the music was original, but it didn't have a different flavour like the others did, it kind of just tried to pick out elements from CMi and so on.

And whilst the artwork was nice for the game as a standalone, both EMI and CMI had great artowk, but not enkeeping with the Monkey island theme of the first two games. I'm not saying they're the definitive games and should only bee seen as the true monkey island games, CMi is well worthy of the title of Monkey island 3, but we got used to the style of the first two only to have it change dramatically. That's all I'm saying. (again, three intended sentences turned into a huge ramble, when will you shut up Joshi?)

elTee
04-29-2004, 05:56 PM
How can you possibly say that CMI doesn't fit in with the style of the first two games?? If you mean it doesn't have 256 colours and is hi-res, then yes, it doesn't fit in with the style at all.

Udvarnoky
04-29-2004, 06:52 PM
Joshi, I have to disagree with you on EMI's music. Its soundtrack was one part of the game that I found to be consistently brilliant, as with the rest of the series (personal favs include: Talking to Carla and Otis, Knuttin' Atoll). OK, so the the opening theme is a carbon copy of CMI's, but that's not a big deal.

Also, I think you're being a bit harsh on the voice acting. Perhaps you didn't care for the jokes or lines, but the voice acting itself was superb, and didn't disappoint me in the least bit.

In my opinion, EMI is definitely a big step down from the previous games (for reasons which have been listed countless times), but at least the music is amazing. (I want the cut-scene music, dammit!)

Joshi
04-30-2004, 07:51 AM
Yes, I did mean art style, but not in that way. Obviously with the ability to move up in graphics and resolution, one would, but CMI, whilst having absolutely brilliant art for the background, characters and objects was still not the same as the style in the first two games. They had more of a real feel to them and less of a fantasy "all curves" feel. CMI was brilliant, I'll grant you that and the artwork was stunning, but it didn't have the same feeling as the first two is all I'm saying.

And okay, the EMI music was good yes, but what I was saying is that the music had a different style and beat for all of the games. The first one had it's style, and then the second had it's slightly darker more edgy style and then CMI had it's grand but nice and more Caribbean style. But EMI's style was exactly the same as CMI. It's not so much that they ripped off one melody from CMI, but that fact that moving with the times, I was expecting a different style of music. Again, on it's own it was a great game with great music, but following on from the previous games, it fell short of wowing me with it's music.

And as far as voice acting goes, okay, so there were a few good voices besisdes the returning characters, but people like Ozzie and Herman were just annoying at times and a lot of that does indeed have to go to the voice actors as they have to sell the stuff (considering good dialogue wasn't a major point of the game, or at least not as agood as before) and I don't think they did as well as had been done before in CMI.

Oh, and need I mention Elaine?

elTee
04-30-2004, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by Joshi
They had more of a real feel to them and less of a fantasy "all curves" feel.

Simply, and not-to-put too fine a point on it, you're wrong.

Click here to see an example of the linear, realistic architecture featured heavily in CMI (http://www.scummbar.com/images/dep/screenshots_cmi_pc/full27.gif)

Click here to see another example of the boringly accurate linear drawings in CMI (http://www.jucaushii.ro/clas/MonkeyIsland3/08.jpg)

Joshi
04-30-2004, 04:43 PM
Ha! Yeah, but I think a better example of the "boringly accurate straight lines" would have been the cannon towers atop the fort, they were so straight, Ian McKellen would have gone running up to kiss them. (at no point here am I commenting on Ian McKellen as a person or an actor, both of which he is great as, and I'm not a homophobe or gay basher, but I had to think of a famous gay person and frankly, Will from Will and Grace just didn't cut it).

I do have to say, I am in awe of that art, it is truley great. As an artist myself, and a fan of that type opf work, I can safely say that I cannot reproduce art in that style (oh, I can copy a picture, no problem, but to draw my own in that style is what I'm saying) and wish I could.

Udvarnoky
04-30-2004, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by Joshi
And okay, the EMI music was good yes, but what I was saying is that the music had a different style and beat for all of the games. The first one had it's style, and then the second had it's slightly darker more edgy style and then CMI had it's grand but nice and more Caribbean style. But EMI's style was exactly the same as CMI. It's not so much that they ripped off one melody from CMI, but that fact that moving with the times, I was expecting a different style of music. Again, on it's own it was a great game with great music, but following on from the previous games, it fell short of wowing me with it's music.

I think EMI's music was more reminiscent of MI2 than anything else. It had the "caribbeaness" of CMI, but it was darker and edgier. Anyway, I find it original enough to not be considered a ripoff of any of the games. It's also really good. :D

Originally posted by Joshi
And as far as voice acting goes, okay, so there were a few good voices besisdes the returning characters, but people like Ozzie and Herman were just annoying at times and a lot of that does indeed have to go to the voice actors as they have to sell the stuff (considering good dialogue wasn't a major point of the game, or at least not as agood as before) and I don't think they did as well as had been done before in CMI.

Oh, and need I mention Elaine?

I dunno. I didn't find Ozzie or Herman to be particularly annoying (the whole Australian race and monkey robot plot more than made up for that, though :¬: ) in their delivery. I thought all of the actors did admirable jobs and made even the most minor characters entertaining. You mention Elaine, but I think the problem was more her character than the actual voice...they gave her an annoying, bossy attitude that wasn't exactly easy to like.

Murray the Chao
04-30-2004, 11:23 PM
I have one idea. If we could show LEC www.agdinteractive.com and www.kq9.org maybe they would realize that the adventure game genere is not dead and will reconsider S&M 2

Jayel
05-01-2004, 01:30 AM
Originally posted by Murray the Chao
I have one idea. If we could show LEC www.agdinteractive.com and www.kq9.org maybe they would realize that the adventure game genere is not dead and will reconsider S&M 2

The suits are in charge of LEC now. What we need to show them is the sales figures. I doubt a couple of fan projects is enough to convince anyone that this genre is still alive.

Joshi
05-01-2004, 12:47 PM
Udvarnorky, in referance to what you said about the music, to each his own i guess. Yes, some people liked it, some people didn't. I didn't (or at least not as much as the others, I of course couldn't do better and the music was good in parts but... okay, so I'm rambling again).

Originally posted by Udvarnoky
I dunno. I didn't find Ozzie or Herman to be particularly annoying (the whole Australian race and monkey robot plot more than made up for that, though :¬: ) in their delivery. I thought all of the actors did admirable jobs and made even the most minor characters entertaining. You mention Elaine, but I think the problem was more her character than the actual voice...they gave her an annoying, bossy attitude that wasn't exactly easy to like.

Okay, so first Ozzie, I just hated the fact that the accent was so overdone. yes, I know he was meant to be the steryotypical view of an Australian (explaining the name) but seriously, anyone who could stand hi could maybe stand Steve Irwin, and I really wish him, dead.

Herman was just two screechy. Okay, so I guess we all thought of that kind of voice when playing SOMI, it does fit. I think it was the whole Herman is marley thing that got me. In both LCR and CMI, I sort of thought of H.T. Marley as being some big tough pirate guy with a nice big booming voice and instead all we got was herman. not of course the actors fault, but after a while, it did become a bit unbearable.

And Elaine I just prefered in CMI. I mean it may not have been perfect, but it was a lot closer to what I expected when playing the first two than what we got in EMI (not character wise, just voice wise, although yes, the character wasn't any better).

Bobo Donkey™
05-01-2004, 02:22 PM
I'd just like to say that when I said my drunken thoughts were more rational nowadays I wasn't thinking about my stupid idea. I was thinking about when I would go to parties an insist that most of my music be played for the duration of it. Now I'm not like that.

I've also had more thought on this. The 'blackmail' idea had actually been goin on in my head for about a week or so before I started this thread. I suggested it to my friends (yes I DO have friends, no they are NOT imaginery or neds) and they gave me good feedback on it. Besides, if I wasnt going to get drunk as feck I would've still done it.

But now that I've read the comments here I guess I could say that this idea of mine is only for the purpose of pissing LucasArse off and getting their attention and then telling them how angry the fans are. But then again they might not listen to me because the concept of listening out for what their fans want is just something that LA have forgotten.

Most of you people are doing your best to save Sam & Max. If anything, my idea could help the cause a little bit more.

Oh and to answer the bear question Joshi. You dont get bears in Scotland, you get Neds (http://www.glasgowsurvival.co.uk/people/glaPeople.html) which is much worse. They wouldn't be chewing on my leg they would be THREATENING TO BEAT ME UP. They don't have addition to honey, they prefer Bucky (http://www.bawbag.com/buckfast.php). As for the gun, I wouldn't be carrying any. Britain has got a gun ban ever since this incident occurred. (http://www.fact-index.com/d/du/dunblane_massacre.html)

Joshi
05-03-2004, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by Bobo Donkey™
Oh and to answer the bear question Joshi. You dont get bears in Scotland, you get Neds (http://www.glasgowsurvival.co.uk/people/glaPeople.html) which is much worse. They wouldn't be chewing on my leg they would be THREATENING TO BEAT ME UP. They don't have addition to honey, they prefer Bucky (http://www.bawbag.com/buckfast.php). As for the gun, I wouldn't be carrying any. Britain has got a gun ban ever since this incident occurred. (http://www.fact-index.com/d/du/dunblane_massacre.html)

It was freaking hypothetical man! I live in England, we don't get any bears or guns here either! But just imagine being in a place where everything I said was true, basicaly, would you go for the honey or shoot the damn bear?

Because LucasArts would know of two ways to stop you making old LA games available on the web for free, one would be to finish Sam+Max at the expense of whatever it will cost, and the other would be to sue you and actually get money out of you. What do you think's gonna happen? Actually, they'll first send a 'Cease and desist letter' at which point you'll probably senmd back a letter to Lucasarts legal board asking them to bring back sam n max, for which the legal board have no power ov er and even more, wouldn't care, and then you'll persist in your demands, and then they'll sue you. This is the corporate world, not the playground, when a big company get's mad, they sue and get loads of money. it's as simple as that.

linklinker
05-09-2004, 06:37 PM
I have just registered but thats not important.

I have read through this post and I just want to Add my oppinon.

Ok I want you to compare Disney and Lucasarts.
When you compare them what do you find that is similar. Ok for starters both companys were known for taking risks.
Disney were famouse for making great animated films. Then they took one BIG Risk they made 20.000 leagues under the sea. If that movie did not payoff back then and wasn't any good and people hated it then we would not have disney to day. Now in this day and age Disney puts out crappy movies. Now no offense I like disney but I think some of the movies they have released lately are very bad and thats ecspecially messing up their reputation for taking risks and that kind of stuff. I will just name 2 movies they have released that are bad. Inspector gadget 2 that movie has one big plot hole. Haunted Mansion.
Now for Lucasarts. Their outstanding reputation was adventure games ,but what are they doing now. Their relying on star wars. Now I do love the star wars movies ,but star wars can not last unless all those mind sucking first person shooters have ruined the gamers minds to make them just drink up those star wars games. Now I do not mean all star wars games are bad ,but lucasarts has been putting out mostly star wars lately.


Now the result and straight to the point.
Lucasarts and Disney they are straying no not straying ,but running away from what made the great. I believe what made both companyies great is that they both had people who would pour their hearts into their creations almost like it was their painting their masterpiece.

And for the most obvius reason both lucasarts and disney and other companies like ea activision sierra are making crappy products is because of ONE MAIN THING.


MONEY! GREED MONEY AND GREED!!!!:mad:

Now I am not saying George lucas is being greedy. I am talking not about one person I am talking about a corperation.

They just put out those games like first person shooter rpgs and such because most gamers are just wanting mindless violence.


And thats my oppinion.
NO OFFENCE IS INTENTED TO ANY GAMERS

Joshi
05-10-2004, 02:51 PM
I doubt you'll get any argument here on these boards, i think we all feel the same way.

Bobo Donkey™
05-11-2004, 02:14 PM
You've got an excellent point linklinker. I was thinking the same thing too (welcome aboard).

Oh and sorry about that last comment Joshi, I was just feeling sarcastic.

LucasArse dont know where I stay do they? So how can they make money out of my crazy idea?

Joshi
05-11-2004, 03:22 PM
Basically, you put up a website, they find it and send you a threatening email to get it ripped down, you say "I'll rip it down when you make Sam n Max 2!" and then they send you maybe one or two more warnings before they contact the copyright pretection commissioner who'll use your I.P. address (which will be automatically signed onto your website, nothing you can really do about that unless you went to another computer away from your house (don't just take your laptop out of the house, it doesn't work like that) and even then it's not fool proof) to find out where you live and slap you with a court order. There are always ways of doing these kinds of things and if you're costing them money, they'll use all of their resources to find you and then sue you for about ten time the amount of money it took to find you. Do you really think that Napster guy was stupid? he was a genius and he got caught, don't think you can get away with this.

Brushguy
05-11-2004, 06:34 PM
You could always live under a fake name, fake real life address, fake social security number, and real e-mail on your "Download LEC Adventures 4 Free" website, and then after they mail you, you send them your "uncancel S&M2 and then I'll shut down" letter and go hide in a cardboard box without shutting your site down.

I'm being sarcastic. While it would be a nice, bitter blow to Lucasarts, they'd catch you and sue you. Sorry. At least we're still trying to come up with ways to get Sam and Max 2, but really, I don't think Lucasarts will release it until they feel that it's "the appropriate time."

Don't reply saying "which is never," because companies have held things back before because they felt that it wasn't ready.

linklinker
05-11-2004, 07:52 PM
You know what I am more worried about is if they cancel the next monkey island.

If they do cancel mokey island 5 I will vaporizez them from orbit in one of there to many games based on star wars x-wing.

Brushguy
05-11-2004, 09:54 PM
There are several Monkey Island and non-S&M fans out there, so if an MI5 gets cancelled, Lucasarts will be absolutely drowning in hate from the outside, thousands of times over than the deafening response they got in the first week of March.

People will protest outside their offices, send thousands of angry e-mails, WWHS will go insane out of its mind with hate, more hate sites in the vein of WWHS will pop up, and finally Lucasarts will move itself into an irreversable position in the big chess game of the game market, and completely cause themselves to go out of business, because there are many more who care about Monkey Island than those who care about Sam and Max(or who care about both), who continue to support LEC.

However, I just can't see MI5 getting cancelled because
a) Lucasarts has learned that there are more people that would buy adventure games than Mike Nelson apparently thought on March 3rd
and
b) Monkey Island has four episodes that all sold extremely well (with the fourth selling slightly less than previous three), and Sam and Max only had one that sold well. There's a difference.

Anyway, if Sam and Max remains in the game graveyard (I strongly believe that it won't), MI5 is something nice to look forward to.

Joshi
05-12-2004, 07:30 AM
Of course forgetting the fact that MI5 hasn't even been started on yet (in concept or no) and the fact that the cancel San & Max press release was basically a nice way of telling everybody that to them, adventure gaming is dead, long live SW! that is of course not true, but it's what they think, so i doubt an MI5 will even begin let alone get cancelled.

The Tingler
05-12-2004, 09:31 AM
I'm afraid that Joshi is probably correct - I doubt it will even get greenlighted, much less cancelled.

Who's the new president? Lucasfilm's head of marketing? Do you really think he's an adventure game man, or a businessman?

While original games may come out of LucasArts (another Indy is probable too), I think that adventure games will not be among them.

On the other hand, "not the appropriate time" could signify that after Episode III is out of the way, LucasArts can do what they want.

cappuchok
05-12-2004, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by The Tingler
I'm afraid that Joshi is probably correct - I doubt it will even get greenlighted, much less cancelled.

Who's the new president? Lucasfilm's head of marketing? Do you really think he's an adventure game man, or a businessman?

While original games may come out of LucasArts (another Indy is probable too), I think that adventure games will not be among them.

On the other hand, "not the appropriate time" could signify that after Episode III is out of the way, LucasArts can do what they want.

The ironic strangeness is that if George Lucas himself was in charge of LucasArts, I think we'd definitely see both Sam & Max and Monkey 5 being done.

But as things stand now, I would agree with your analysis that "now is not the appropriate time" may mean they've decided to freeze development until after they're done with the current batch of Ep III games that are sure to be in development somewhere deep inside LucasArts.

Joshi
05-12-2004, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by cappuchok
The ironic strangeness is that if George Lucas himself was in charge of LucasArts, I think we'd definitely see both Sam & Max and Monkey 5 being done.


Would he? Think about it, waste resources on some adventure game that may not sell that well, or make more games on your milestone, Star Wars, that's sure to sell. If George had the choice, what do you think George would do?

Also, this isn't the right time may mean that after the Ep3 games are out they may consider adventure games, but the fact of the matter is, they weren't talking about it not being the right time for them, they'd already finished most of Sam & max 2 before cancelling it so it was nothing to do with resources, it was market figures and current trends that made them think that people wouldn't have bought it, and to be honest, i'm at a guess at saying that it'll probably be about three tiumes the amount of people browsing the entire LF boards that will buy them and even then it probably wouldn't make that much money (in comparison with what it would spend to make it) which is why they axed it. they knew they wouldn't make much money on it, and as the yeasr go on, sales predictions will go down meaning they'll probably never make a Sam & Max 2 or MI5

The Tingler
05-12-2004, 04:57 PM
Are we SURE that it was nearly complete? Maybe they realised that they had to do a whole lot more. Maybe they asked for a few more months. Maybe Mike Nelson wasn't willing to give up those extra months.

linklinker
05-12-2004, 07:40 PM
Well when I said cancel MI5 I was speaking in the terms of cancel the project before it even got started.

What will lucasarts do after episode 3 in the star wars saga ,make a series.
If they keep making star wars games soon we will see games like ,Star Wars Yoda Fashion Designer or Star Wars the game based on star wars where you get to play a game based on star wars where in that game you play star wars game based on star wars game based on
Star wars or Star Wars hail lucasarts star wars games or star wars the fall of sam and max and the rise of star wars.
and finally star wars: game world take over. oy THE HORROR!!!!!!!!
HOW LONG CAN STAR WARS LAST!!
Hey I looked at key facts at lec site and it said 39 originals 51 star wars and iny games. Now how many indy games were made like 5 or 10.

Skinkie
05-12-2004, 11:34 PM
Like 5:

Last Crusade: Action Game
Last Crusade: Adventure Game
Fate of Atlantis
Infernal Machine
Emperor's Tomb

Scummbuddy
05-13-2004, 02:31 AM
wasnt there an Indy Desktop Adventures. Doesn't that count to you? :)

The Tingler
05-13-2004, 11:46 AM
And Indy Fate of Atlantis: The Action Game too.

JBRAA
05-13-2004, 01:35 PM
It's just something I made. It's related to the Sam & Max 2 cancellation. Reply if you like it.
Only logo http://mojoart.mixnmojo.com/lec-sux/lec-poison.avi
ATMachines pic http://mojoart.mixnmojo.com/lec-sux/lec-poison_b.avi