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View Full Version : Brainstorming: Combat animations


keshire
05-08-2004, 12:17 PM
Time for some public suggestions.

Here are what you have to work with.

scripted saber locks.

These will randomly replace saber locks with a scripted sequence of attacks.

here is an example
http://www.aotctc.com/forums/files/obi_wan.gif
http://www.aotctc.com/forums/files/darth_maul.gif

Melee and Grab attacks mixed in to the saber attack chains/combo's

and finally

Counter attacks after blocks and parries.

I need ideas references, balancing traits, etc...

Master_Keralys
05-08-2004, 12:40 PM
Try the sequence where it's just Qui-gon and Darth Maul fighting at the end of TPM: those would be a lot more controlled and not as spinny, which would make for some variety.

If you're going to toss Melee and Grab in between saber combos, the defender needs a defense against it; I'm not sure what that would be (and it would obviously be a coding issue as well) but you'd need a block anim for those - since it doesn't make sense to see the saber blocking hands and doing no damage...

razorace
05-08-2004, 03:53 PM
Well, my thoughts on counter defense is that the saber should have full attack damage even when idle, since you're technically jumping onto the blade. But this wouldn't apply if you knock your opponent into a knockback first.

This way you ever have to be really good, or knock your opponent into a knockback before attempting a counter attack/melee attack. However, to make up for this, melee/counter strikes would cause a nasty fatigue hit and either knock you on your butt or make you stumble across the room.

For that to work, we'd also probably need some stumbling animations (where the player stumbles but doesn't fall over).

PerfectJamie
05-08-2004, 11:19 PM
so how does the player get any control over this sequence? like the saber lock, mashing on the fire button to win, or is it just some fancy sequence (I kind of like it though) and a way to improve saber combat is I think make it like enter the matrix; where the player locks onto another player and have a teken style fighting camera angle. and have a block button (use button like ETM) and have it so if you time it right you can counter (just like ETM) I dont know if this is possible but I would love to see it!

lonepadawan
05-09-2004, 06:16 AM
ETM= Pure evil. Nothing good can come out of it.

razorace
05-09-2004, 07:37 AM
Originally posted by PerfectJamie
so how does the player get any control over this sequence? like the saber lock, mashing on the fire button to win, or is it just some fancy sequence (I kind of like it though) and a way to improve saber combat is I think make it like enter the matrix; where the player locks onto another player and have a teken style fighting camera angle. and have a block button (use button like ETM) and have it so if you time it right you can counter (just like ETM) I dont know if this is possible but I would love to see it!

Ok, I see it going like this....

Players are going at it, one person is defending and one is attacking. The defender gets a successful parry (by pressing in the right direction while holding down block) and knocks the attacker into a knockaway. From there, the defender has serveral choices...run away, strike at the openning, or use a counter attack.

With a counter attack, you'll launch into an attack that physically smashings the attacker causing him to stumble back or get knocked down. Either way, he's going to lose a fair amount of fatigue points and a few hit points.

The idea being so that the fighters can get some physical attacks into a fight AND so that a defender can have a very reasonable chance to block/fight without spamming attack like a monkey.

keshire
05-09-2004, 08:40 AM
Ya, exactly the only thing the saber will be used in is scripted locks. Because that is what the lock is meant for. everything is with a free hand/hilt, foot or head ;).

razorace
05-09-2004, 03:40 PM
Careful, Keshire, sarcasm is very difficult to get over text messaging. Plus, it's very easy to confuse people that way.

Gotaiken
05-09-2004, 08:00 PM
I like the stumbling idea, that could be used in parries as well, instead of the knockback, just a thought.

On another note, how customizable is the saber lock animations, cause someone had an idea about using the directional keys to pushthe blade in a certain direction and try to force your opponent off balance.

razorace
05-09-2004, 11:56 PM
I don't think that would be doable. Something simple, like left/right stuff, sure but not a whole bunch of directional stuff.

Gotaiken
05-10-2004, 02:54 PM
np, sounded pretty good though, lol

Gotaiken
05-10-2004, 03:08 PM
One question, how come the blocks snap anyway??? Is it to make the block in time, or just a shotty animating job???

kusanagi
05-12-2004, 03:09 AM
how about a rock scissor paper rock algorithm? the player gets into saber lock; during the saberlock the 2 players gets two choose one action and one action only (possibly by pressing a direction key), then the outcome and the animation used will be dependent on actions choosen by the player. this means there will be about 9 animation depending on who wins the saberlock with what action.

keshire
05-12-2004, 03:13 AM
this means there will be about 9 animation

Sure, have at it. :)

There's like two animators for JKA. You trying to give me a heart attack here.

kusanagi
05-13-2004, 07:09 PM
lol i forgot there's 3 weapons in JA, that makes 27 animation....

PerfectJamie
05-21-2004, 05:17 PM
I was just wondering, what factor chooses which player does which animation? if animation A matches with animation B then obviously two players can't go into animation A. I am asking because I would like to make something like this aswell

razorace
05-21-2004, 08:34 PM
You're going to have to be more specific. There's multiple animation control systems going on in multiple layers.

keshire
05-22-2004, 12:19 AM
I was just wondering, what factor chooses which player does which animation? if animation A matches with animation B then obviously two players can't go into animation A. I am asking because I would like to make something like this aswell

Everything is controlled via code. RazorAce and Renegade have direct control over how its activated and when as well as distance from each other they are activated. Though some forethought is required. If at all possible both sides should start/end close to what you would think would be the best anim to transition to and from.

That scripted lock that I made doesn't do that so it will be difficult to plug it in somewhere.

razorace
05-22-2004, 01:39 AM
Originally posted by keshire
Everything is controlled via code. RazorAce and Renegade have direct control over how its activated and when as well as distance from each other they are activated. Though some forethought is required.

I AM GOD HERE!

Lei Hng Wei
05-22-2004, 02:40 AM
And so began the sacrificing of Jawas. And it was good.

razorace
05-22-2004, 02:51 AM
NOT ON MY WATCH.

PerfectJamie
05-22-2004, 05:25 AM
well I was thinking, I never looked at the animation file so I dont know, but I assume they have specific saberlock animation to match another saberlock animation. (single_leftlock+single_rightlock=a cross made by the two sabers)
then, why won't you replace thoughse anims with these scripted locks? in theory I think it would work if you take out the whole mouse mashing thing (the lock is always a draw)

keshire
05-22-2004, 05:33 AM
why won't you replace thoughse anims with these scripted locks? in theory I think it would work if you take out the whole mouse mashing thing (the lock is always a draw)

Well I'd like to have both in. Plus this is in relation to Movie Battles. MB already has two lock styles.

regular locks
Micro locks (very short locks, or as I call it "sticky sabers!")
Renegade also wants a third layer called scripted locks that are cinematic and not controlled via the player. These scripted locks would be very rare.

Also your right every lock has a counterpart.

BehaveED has a list of what lock anim goes with what saber and against what saber. We're talking a whole lot of locks as well as transitions to and from.

razorace
05-22-2004, 07:45 AM
*shrug* I don't know.

The more I look at it, the more I feel that the locks are probably just going to be a sinkhole of effort. While a lot of this stuff would be cool, is it really worth all that effort for the 5 secs that the locks occur in?

Secondly, while locks occur, you're losing a good amount of gameplay control, so is it really worth it?

Note: This doesn't mean that I'm against any of this fancier saber lock stuff, it's just that I'm worry that all the effort isn't going to pay off ingame.

keshire
05-22-2004, 07:56 AM
Well technically thats the longest one I'll ever do. The rest will be a swipe dodge type of thing. My main foucs is goign to be adding in off hand attacks to the saber attack chain as well as a few counter attacks.

RenegadeOfPhunk
05-22-2004, 10:08 AM
The more I look at it, the more I feel that the locks are probably just going to be a sinkhole of effort. While a lot of this stuff would be cool, is it really worth all that effort for the 5 secs that the locks occur in?


Well, if you want to make these fancy scripted locks 'gameplay' features, then yes, you are talking about some significant work.

However, I'm thinking about these only as visual additions. Pure, unadulterated eye candy. Nothing more, nothing less. Each player at the end of the scripted lock would end back up in 'neutral' stances and neither having lost any HP's during.
When you look at it that way, it shouldn't be that much work. You basically trigger them in the same way that saber locks get triggered, although you'd have to do a few extra checks for space behind etc. (in the specific example keshire posted at the top of the thread..)

I am possibly thinking about scripted locks that have a bearing on the gameplay (scripted locks where one duelist is in a stronger position than the other - in MB determined by BP level for example) but even in this case I was planning on keeping it pretty simple... still a pre-determined scripted lock, but one where one player is 'punished' in a pre-defined manner.

..in my view of this, all the really hard work is K's tbh ;)


Secondly, while locks occur, you're losing a good amount of gameplay control, so is it really worth it?


As K mentioned, the one he's posted would be - I imagine - the longest I'd ever want in-game. Most of them I would imagine being around a second or so. (depending on how many Keshire can do before he loses his mind! lol)
And I would make the frequency of played scripted locks relational to how long it is. So longer ones get played less often...

This not only keeps gameplay disruption to a minimum, but also keeps these events 'fresh'. If their happenning every couple of seconds, people will very quickly get bored of them...

Gotaiken
05-22-2004, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by Lei Hng Wei
And so began the sacrificing of Jawas. And it was good.

OMFG so funny so F***ing funny!!!

Gotaiken
05-22-2004, 11:10 AM
i agree with phunk, saber locks would be some really nice eye candy, eye candy NEVER hurts.

razorace
05-22-2004, 01:44 PM
Dodge Roll.

You don't even really lose control in that case, but look at all the bitching that resulted from that. If you're going to have any sort of fancy locking stuff, it's going to result in some level of suiciding.

Gotaiken
05-22-2004, 02:30 PM
dodge roll needs to be tweaked because more than anything people want their hits to count unless the person did something to prevent it, not just happen to have enough of some bar.

RenegadeOfPhunk
05-22-2004, 02:51 PM
If you're going to have any sort of fancy locking stuff, it's going to result in some level of suiciding.


To use Keshire's example at the top of this thread - as long as you did basic level ground checks to the appropaite distance behind each player, so that your sure they can walk back the specified distance without falling off ledges or down pits etc., how is it that you see suicides happenning? I don't follow...

razorace
05-22-2004, 03:21 PM
Good point. :)

What about other players? It could be nasty if other players try to interfere with these fancy locks.

Gotaiken
05-22-2004, 05:53 PM
they shouldnt be that long, and hwat would happen if other players messed with the normal lock, whatever happens then should happen there.

razorace
05-22-2004, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by Gotaiken
they shouldnt be that long, and hwat would happen if other players messed with the normal lock, whatever happens then should happen there.

The lockees die. :D

PerfectJamie
05-22-2004, 11:24 PM
well there was a JK2 mod that allowed a triple lock (three people at once) it usually occered when one player tried to interfere a lock, mabe that could be used to stop from players to get an advantage over two saber lockers. but I'm not sure what happenes if a fourth saberist tries to interfere. another thing I was thinking of that I saw in ETM (sorry guys) when you countered or the enemy countered an attack then the fighters played a fancy animation that can't be seen normally. mabe the scripted lock can be a counter thing?

keshire
05-23-2004, 12:48 AM
mabe the scripted lock can be a counter thing?

We're far ahead of you.

Thats what this thread was originally intended for. Suggestions on what type of attacks to use for certain situations.

The scenarios's go as follows


*Insterting melee attacks in the saber attack chain

*scripted locks

*and Counter attacks

razorace
05-23-2004, 01:12 AM
Personally, I think a bunch of cool melee/counter moves would neato.

PerfectJamie
05-23-2004, 02:54 AM
yea! that would make JA playable again :p, also I made this suggestion before but I would really love to see this happen, so here goes.......a comba lock on system! the one like in legende of zelda or ETM (again, I love this game) that would seriously make the duels look like the movies! :D

razorace
05-23-2004, 03:05 AM
yeah, that's been planned for a long time. I'm just too lazy to impliment it. :D

PerfectJamie
05-23-2004, 03:43 AM
lol, awww come on~~~ lol oh well I hope you will get around coding it some time

Lei Hng Wei
05-25-2004, 01:36 AM
Originally posted by razorace
NOT ON MY WATCH.

Uh oh! (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v414/LeiHngWei/Star_Wars/JK-JA/1073688154.jpg) Call it off guys, the boss said no.

kusanagi
05-25-2004, 11:31 PM
two hands up for combat lock on!!! *thinks back to old days of serverances blades of darkness and shivers* just another suggestion, maybe all of the saber combat system (saberlock, blocking, counter etc) and all special moves can only be trigger when you have a lock on to an opponent, abit like Zelda, while without lock pn, you'll only get the usual directional moves. of thats if your planning on having lock ons in the first place.....

Gotaiken
06-15-2004, 06:36 AM
keshire can you do me a big favor (not needed btw but it will be a plus) can you make 8 seperate dual animations, each where they are doing the normal 8 attacks (7 actually) but only the main saber is in use, for example in the right attack the attacking saber is in the left hand, i just want the left hand to move, it is part of a saber control method i had, no biggie but if you dont mind. All you gotta do is remove the offhand's attack animation.

razorace
06-15-2004, 01:31 PM
So, basically you want him to do a large amount of animation work (and indirectly a bunch of coding work) without giving us an idea of what you're shooting for?

RoxStar
06-15-2004, 04:39 PM
What about a melee attack? Like if you're shootting someone and you 've fun out of ammo you can whip the person with your weapon? This would be really cool with a saber!

Gotaiken
06-15-2004, 07:31 PM
I admit that I am iggnorant on the subject, however razor, it doesnt seem to me (forgive me if im wrong :rolleyes: ) that taking out the non dominant attacking arm of 7 animations is a lot of work. He doesnt have to redo anything or make anything, only take out the non dominant arm.

keshire
06-16-2004, 12:17 AM
You can't just go in and delete the keys to those attacks. Well you can but that would require a lot of work to reposition the arm in a reasonable manner. THEN you have to go in and make anims for the second arm. And that is where you run into problems. Your basically making a second saber style.

Gotaiken
06-16-2004, 02:42 AM
nm, just a request nothing important :rolleyes: :D

keshire
06-16-2004, 03:19 AM
Ok you all. You have to realize this is my hobby. I have neither the free time or the skill to do anything spectacular. What I have planned is as far as I'm willing to go. Once I go past that it becomes a "job". And both loses its appeal and fun.

Which brings me to my next point. I'm not about to do any of this to make anybody happy but myself. OJP doesn't have a "team" of sorts. Its just like minded people donating work. Its just Me, RazorAce, and Renegade all happen to agree on a lot of issues.

And if I do decide to make a new saber style it will be on my terms.

Also this thread is vearing off its original topic.

I need ideas and references for suitable melee/saber attacks that mesh with the current ones.

keshire
06-16-2004, 06:29 AM
Animated gif of BackHand (http://pixstorage.com/view/image.php?id=2631)

Rough draft. I needed a break from blocking. And time to bring this back on topic...

keshire
06-17-2004, 04:22 AM
Darth Maul hapkido Spin kick (http://www.aotctc.com/forums/files/spinkick.gif)

Another Rough draft.

Gotaiken
06-17-2004, 06:27 AM
great work keshire, but may i ask what these melee moves are for.

keshire
06-17-2004, 06:57 AM
They are to be melee moves while holding a saber.

I had originally planned on plugging these in to the combo chains. But since Razor currently isn't using the specials that may be a good button combo to use too.

Attack+Alt Attack to melee attack. knocking someone:

off balance/Staggering/Knocking down

keshire
06-17-2004, 07:19 AM
I'm also going to revamp the entire unarmed system. Doing those punches while running is out the window.

*I'm thinking of some type of shoulder block/charge and a jump kick for when your running.

*I'll be changing the walk to something similar to a boxing shuffle.

*And finally a block/grapple to disarm people, and give unarmed some fighting chance.

Gotaiken
06-17-2004, 07:40 PM
keshire go to the thread saber control methods i got an idea for everything

keshire
06-18-2004, 12:28 AM
I'm staying out of that conversation. You all want overly complicated/convulated control schemes. While it should be kept simple and expanded on from the base system.

Gotaiken
06-18-2004, 01:44 AM
not really, its quite simple actually

primary attack = medium attack

secondary attack = light attack

primary + secondary attack held = heavy attack

primary + secondary attack tap = melee

not much complication complete control and intuitivity

keshire
06-18-2004, 02:06 AM
Sure. But my opinion won't be changed. Which is why I stay out of the thread. You'll just have to find a way to adapt what I work on.

keshire
06-18-2004, 02:17 AM
And I'm done with the replacement of the Dual jump kick. I'm much happier with this.

Dual Leg Sweep (http://www.aotctc.com/forums/files/sweep.gif)

Weiser_Cain
06-18-2004, 03:34 AM
The selectable pistol thread gave me an idea. How about a quick-draw animation. I often have wanted to fire off a shot at a distant non-force-using opponent then quickly go back to using a saber. Not sure how practical it would be, but I think it would be pretty cool.

keshire
06-18-2004, 03:37 AM
Like as in using the off hand to fire a weapon?

because the weapon switching time isn't very long as it is.

RoxStar
06-20-2004, 01:17 AM
Originally posted by keshire


Dual Leg Sweep (http://www.aotctc.com/forums/files/sweep.gif)


That looks very painful Keshire. Your animation work is amazing! I can't wait to do that to some punk trying to gun me down.

keshire
06-20-2004, 04:51 AM
Right Hand Disarm (http://www.aotctc.com/forums/download.php?id=456)

Quicktime format render of the one of the final pieces to the unarmed system. The right handed disarm. I'll be doing a left hand version for dual sabers. If you happen to catch either arm while unarmed you strip them of their weapon and leave them laying flat on their back. Or so I hope.

So far I have all new unarmed attacks based on kick boxing but no screenies yet.

Both_Right_Punch (walk)
Both_Left_Punch (walk)
Torso_Melee_Block (walk)
Lower_Melee_Block (walk)
Torso_Run_ShoulderBash (run)
Both_Run_JumpKick (run)
Both_Off_balance
Both_Stagger

I also have moves seperated so that some are only usable while running and some while walking.

So far this is what I've suggested to RazorAce

primary = punchs
Secondary = kicks
primary+secondary = disarm
primary+secondary+direction = standard grabs

with blocking being automatic and tied to fatigue. Run out/low of fatigue and you run the risk of being sent off-balanced/staggered/or knocked down

People with weapons can't block melee.

Anyother suggestions?

Weiser_Cain
06-20-2004, 10:47 AM
Well I'm a righty so I was thinking of a quick switch but it would be cooler if you could essentially dual weild a blaster and a saber for just a moment. Of course this would limit the move to single saber users but I don't have a problem with that!

JediLiberator
06-20-2004, 11:27 AM
Wow, some really cool animations. Just a suggestion, but maybe you can put in a coup de grace move(like the ground stab) where you do an ax kick to someone who on the ground. Basically that's when you lift up your leg and smash the heel into someone on the ground. Don't know how practical it would be, but it could be a viable tactic.

Profcorron
06-28-2004, 06:58 AM
How about a leg scissoring animation. Where person a. drops down onto the ground and scissers his/her legs through the opponants legs and drops them onto the floor, person a is on the ground as is person b.

Alesh
06-28-2004, 05:27 PM
A counterattack (could be done in two directions):

The defender deflects the incoming saber into a side and kicks with the opposite leg, torso for knockback, or feet for knockdown.

If the deflection was with one hand only it could also be a punch to the face.