PDA

View Full Version : Mod predictions for Battlefront


Lt. Havoc
05-18-2004, 07:33 AM
I'm betting within 2 months of its release we'll see the first small mods for the game.

Some of the first being simple things like
realism mod (easier to die, easier to kill, harder to repair or heal)

play as AI characters (someone will figure out a way to replace certain classes with the AI characters making the ewoks, Tuscan raiders and Jedi playable)

Weapon mod (allows you more choices of weapons per class or to pick up kits and swap your original)

Of course there will be a flood of skins too.

The modding community may get a jump on the game if they release a demo prior to September. I bet they'll release a MP demo in July, probably using the map of Yavin 4. The demo would generate more buzz for them along with testing issues and create feedback.

TK-8252
05-18-2004, 07:50 AM
Originally posted by Lt. Havoc
and Jedi playable)

God no.

Lt. Havoc
05-18-2004, 08:26 AM
I think all that could initially happen is the player models could be swapped for the original character classes. For instance instead of the rebel soldier you might have a Jedi. I didn't mean one with a lightsaber and force powers.

tFighterPilot
05-18-2004, 08:55 AM
Originally posted by TK-8252
God no. Quoted for emphasis

But it would be nive to play a Gungan :D

yaebginn
05-18-2004, 09:02 AM
I saw a girl at school wh looked like a gungan

tFighterPilot
05-18-2004, 09:04 AM
That's grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat

yaebginn
05-18-2004, 10:47 AM
didnt need those extra 'r's ,pal.

Mountainforest
05-18-2004, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by TK-8252
God no.

I totally agree.

But I don't think susch a mod would make it to standard on servers.

Thrawn
05-21-2004, 11:48 PM
At some point, a mod will be developed that draws material from the expanded universe. I'd expect to see a New Jedi Order mod be one of the most ambitious, as it would have to be a large mod to create the Vong.

Alegis
05-22-2004, 03:36 AM
mod for better model details etc :)

modem7
05-28-2004, 05:53 PM
actually im more interested in the server side mods

like JA+ mod which currently rox for JA......

hopefully they will expand into BF.......

Huntsman
05-28-2004, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by TK-8252
God no.

Whether you like it or not, I would bet my salary that it will happen.

Personally I'm no elitist and think it would be entertaining, even if only as an infrequent deversion from the original game.

TK-8252
05-28-2004, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by modem7
actually im more interested in the server side mods

like JA+ mod which currently rox for JA......

hopefully they will expand into BF.......

Admin mods for Battlefront. God, no.

Nevhision
05-28-2004, 08:14 PM
A space lv mod would be nice so people like me who are picking this game over Jump to Lightspeed won't be left out.

fuzzyfreaker
05-28-2004, 10:45 PM
Ahem, Um... The games not even out yet! Why don't you wait till the game is here then we can discuss mods. But that doesn't mean i have some ideas. The best SWBF mod i can think of is an expanded Universe Mod. Think about it, the Maw Installation, Kessel, Mon Calamari and the World Devestators. That's what i would do.

Drax Kreiger
05-31-2004, 01:19 PM
Wouldn't it be ironic if they made a mod that was based on Half-Life, since some person made a mod in Half-Life that allowed you to play a Star-Wars based shooter. One side would be the marines, another side the aliens, and the last side could be the Black Mesa security and scientist personnel.

Doomie
05-31-2004, 01:50 PM
A space lv mod would be nice so people like me who are picking this game over Jump to Lightspeed won't be left out.

Ah, i so hope there will be a space battle map! there are still some secret maps, so...

It would be like: you step into your fighter and you and your friends fly towards the enemy star destroyer. You're taking heavy fire from it and decide to break up and go evasive. Then suddenly, imperial TIE's launch from the star destroyer and start chasing you! While your friends distract them, you amanage to land in their hangar and infiltrate the ship...

But they probably won't make anything like that... Maybe an expansion...?

Drax Kreiger
05-31-2004, 01:52 PM
They did that in UT2004, where players had to assault a space station in fighters and land in the hanger without being blown apart by other players controlling space turrents

tFighterPilot
05-31-2004, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by Doomgiver
Ah, i so hope there will be a space battle map! there are still some secret maps, so...

It would be like: you step into your fighter and you and your friends fly towards the enemy star destroyer. You're taking heavy fire from it and decide to break up and go evasive. Then suddenly, imperial TIE's launch from the star destroyer and start chasing you! While your friends distract them, you amanage to land in their hangar and infiltrate the ship...

But they probably won't make anything like that... Maybe an expansion...? For crying out loud, just go play Jedi Academy!

Xirion
06-01-2004, 06:23 AM
somebody should make a WWII Mod :P

Tyler_Durden
06-01-2004, 06:54 AM
As a mapper for JO and to a much smaller extent, JA, i would like to do a map that has two bases, one rebels/republic and the other empire/trade fed. Maybe one base is across an ocean and you would need speeder bikes to get across, or have a quasi hoth like level with speeders and at-st's/AT-At's that take place on a green field like naboo, just not naboo. It seems the possibilities for battlefields is only limited by your imagination, and how hard it is to map for battlefront.

Dagobahn Eagle
06-01-2004, 11:49 PM
I want a mod that converts everything in battlefront to things from the Star Wars universe!!!!!!!!!!1111111

Er.. no, wait...

I have no idea. Probably many, many additions on Star Wars, but probably some Total Conversions bringing in other universes too (just look at how they tried to make a Star Wars mod for Age of Empires II:)). I wouldn't have been surprised if someone made a Lord of the Rings Total conversion for Battlefront. I'm not joking, I honestly would not be:p.

As others have stated, it's funny how people spend the last months before a game's released discussing expansion packs, mods, secret stuff, and sequels. Play the damned game already, then start looking for add-ons and easter eggs:D! You're like people about to open their birthday presents while thinking "I wonder what I'll get for my next birthday".

tFighterPilot
06-02-2004, 03:51 AM
Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
(just look at how they tried to make a Star Wars mod for Age of Empires II:)) I don't think it's called a mod, as it actually costs money... if you buy it... *cough*...

Idei
06-02-2004, 08:07 AM
Are there any mod makers on these forums?

Mods take a lot of time and effort, and while I"m all in favor of them, it takes some real dedication and skill to get a decent one off the ground.

Does LucasArts even support mods?

I have yet to see a LucasArts game that supports any really significant mods in the community. I'm talking about total conversions. Either I haven't heard about them, they aren't being created, or LucasArts doesn't do enough to support the mod community.

I read an article that estimated development time on some mods in the thousands of hours. And some of those mods aren't even popular. An example of community support would be what Valve, idsoftware, and epic?(unreal engine) do. They have seminars, documentation, even source code available to the mod makers. They publicize that their game or engine is moddable.

What I've seen of LucasArts is closed door development and that usually translates into proprietary code that people won't have access to. Modding will be possible; the issue will be getting enough committed people to knock on that door enough times since LucasArts doesn't greet modders with open arms like other developers.

Counterstrike is really one of the great examples of modding success. After Counterstrike the whole industry started to embrace modders as a way of adding value to their games and a way of extending their product life. I haven't seen LucasArts embrace modders yet, but I'm not an insider so that may be happening.

Then again, the Star Wars franchise is very strict about what they will and won't allow. Example: Galactic Conquest mod on BF1942...they weren't allowed to play any of the original Star Wars scores and they weren't allowed to implement any jedi related features. Part of that might be due to the fact that BF1942 doesn't have a Star Wars license while SWBF will.

A lot of factors have to be present to create a nice mod. Dedicated staff with technical knowledge, the time to develop it, legal issues, and finally community acceptance. Whether all these factors will be present in any LucasArts game is the question.

Now it's also possible that a total conversion won't happen. Maybe it will just be the occasional custom model and/or gameplay tweak.

My hope is that the game is good enough upon release that some player will find an aspect of the game that they are passionate about and develops some great new way of playing the game. That's what happened with Counterstrike. The creators remembered some very memorable scenes involving the elite commandos in Half-Life...added their interest in counter-terrorism...and a very unique gameplay experience emerged.

Go Counterstrike Go.

Idei

tFighterPilot
06-02-2004, 08:30 AM
You haven't seen a moddable Lucas Arts game? The Jedi Knight series was QUITE moddable :rolleyes:

Besides, it's Pandemic Studios which actually makes the game, and Battlezone2 was quite modabble...

Idei
06-02-2004, 08:57 AM
I have yet to see or hear of a LucasArts game with a successful, and popular, total conversion. Being moddable and having great mods are similar but I would rather have great mods over just having the capability to mod.

In my mind a great total conversion is the definition of a real mod. Custom models or gameplay tweaks are fun, and as long as they are simple to integrate I would play with them, but a good total conversion is usually distinct enough that playing them actually feels like a different game entirely.

They are few and far between. If LucasArts is lucky enough to pick up a team that has the ability and the desire to create a good total conversion, they had better be smart enough to recognize what they bring to the table.

At this point I'm just interested in seeing whether there are any mod makers on these forums that are actively pursuing a SWBF mod. More than likely they will appear after the game goes retail, after people have seen the game, the engine, and formulated some opinions about it.



Idei

tFighterPilot
06-02-2004, 11:27 AM
For crying out loud, do you know ANYTHING about the modability of Jedi Outcast\Academy?

Tyler_Durden
06-02-2004, 03:30 PM
I believe Pandemic has stated that they will release mod tools after release. I just hope it's intuitive enough to learn. JO/JA was fairly easy, but there are a lot of tricks that you kind of have to learn as you map. Battlefield 1942 is a bitch, though cause i think you have to know photoshop or something, i haven't tried vietnam's mod tools yet, but i don't think i'm interested in modding that game as there are tons of mods in the works. But yeah, i'm hoping you don't need a multitude of knowledge with many obscure programs to learn battlefront.

Nevhision
06-02-2004, 06:55 PM
Okay, how good are the JA space maps? Or would UT be better for that?

-What a crazy world when FPS turn into Space Sims.

pink lightsaber
06-02-2004, 07:11 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

NOT JEDI NO JEDI NO JEDI

sorry had to get that off my chest;)

tFighterPilot
06-03-2004, 06:19 AM
Originally posted by Nevhision
Okay, how good are the JA space maps? Or would UT be better for that?

-What a crazy world when FPS turn into Space Sims. Well, most would say that UT2K4 space combat is better, BUT ITS NOT STARWARS!

Sabretooth
06-03-2004, 08:26 AM
Actually, I would like a mod which allows a third-party. For eg. While the Battle of Hoth is going on, A Wampa, or maube two attack both sides. It would be a bit dumb, but good.:)
Or, A mod which can introduce new factions like the Crimson Guards, The Black Sun, Yuuzhan Vong, The Jedi/Sith Order etc. (Of course, the Jedi/Sith won't be able to play against other factions but themselves).

Tyler_Durden
06-04-2004, 07:33 AM
I think i might base a few maps on some of the scenarios from galactic battlegrounds, the real time strategy game that came out a few years ago, maybe some from that 3d one as well but i can't remember the name of it. I think that would ve a good source of battles that i believe happened in star wars canon and have a few worlds we haven't seen yet.

tFighterPilot
06-04-2004, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by Tyler_Durden
I think i might base a few maps on some of the scenarios from galactic battlegrounds, the real time strategy game that came out a few years ago, maybe some from that 3d one as well but i can't remember the name of it. I think that would ve a good source of battles that i believe happened in star wars canon and have a few worlds we haven't seen yet. Force Commander?

Tyler_Durden
06-04-2004, 10:37 PM
yeah, force commander. And now that i think about it, maybe some maps from different games such as dune, with the deserts and stuff, maybe stuff from command and conquer all done in the Star Wars universe with a star wars flavor. Damn, this is shaping up to be very awesome with all the ideas i'm getting, i haven't felt this excited since Jedi Outcast.

Prime
06-05-2004, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Lt. Havoc
I bet they'll release a MP demo in July, probably using the map of Yavin 4. I'll believe that when I see it. It wouldn't be in their best interest.

Originally posted by Idei
...a good total conversion is usually distinct enough that playing them actually feels like a different game entirely.

They are few and far between. I wonder why that is, since they are so easy and quick to produce ;)

Originally posted by Idei
If LucasArts is lucky enough to pick up a team that has the ability and the desire to create a good total conversion, they had better be smart enough to recognize what they bring to the table. Are you talking about the Lucasarts that owns Star Wars?

Originally posted by sabretooth
Or, A mod which can introduce new factions like the ... Yuuzhan Vong... Dear god, no! :)

Idei
06-05-2004, 02:36 PM
A demo is almost a requirement these days. People I talk to about it barely know what Battlefront is. They definitely have to market the game better, and if the game is worth playing they will demo it publicly so they can earn street creds.

I stand by what I said earlier about total conversions and the relationship of LucasArts with the modding community. They offer less support than other companies with similiar games and I have yet to hear of any really great LucasArts mods.

There are people modding JO and JA. Great, but people buy half-life just to play Counterstrike. Where are the mods in the LucasArts universe that carry that much depth and popularity?

They are few and far between on ANY game platform.

Idei

Prime
06-05-2004, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by Idei
A demo is almost a requirement these days. Yeah, OK.

Originally posted by Idei
People I talk to about it barely know what Battlefront is. They definitely have to market the game better, and if the game is worth playing they will demo it publicly so they can earn street creds. Why? Because Star Wars doesn't have any name recognition? I guess KOTOR suffered because it didn't have a demo. :) I doubt Battlefront needs "street cred". By the time the game is released, everyone in the Hip Hop Nation will know about it ;)

Originally posted by Idei
I stand by what I said earlier about total conversions and the relationship of LucasArts with the modding community. They offer less support than other companies with similiar games and I have yet to hear of any really great LucasArts mods. And that lack of support is preventing them from selling a boatload of games?

Originally posted by Idei
There are people modding JO and JA. Great, but people buy half-life just to play Counterstrike. Where are the mods in the LucasArts universe that carry that much depth and popularity?

They are few and far between on ANY game platform. Why would they want them? They don't want the Star Wars continuity altered for starters, since some people may confuse the mods an official Star Wars product. They put out enough Star Wars games that extending the life of existing games would be a bad business move. The only incentive they need to get people to buy their product is to put Star Wars on the box...

tFighterPilot
06-05-2004, 03:25 PM
There are people modding JO and JA. Great, but people buy half-life just to play Counterstrike.That's fricking stupid, especially as Half Life is much better

(at least single player wise)

yaebginn
06-05-2004, 03:43 PM
U really from Israel? Is it nice there? Exceot for the war and all. I'm always root for Israel. Cause the Palestine started it anyhow. With the bombers and all. If I could, I'd help ya'll. But I have one dollar, no combat experince, and am not even old enough to smoke. not that the last bit had anything to do with anything.

Idei
06-05-2004, 03:58 PM
Why? Because Star Wars doesn't have any name recognition? I guess KOTOR suffered because it didn't have a demo. I doubt Battlefront needs "street cred". By the time the game is released, everyone in the Hip Hop Nation will know about it

That's exactly the mindset that LucasArts has about its games and one of the reasons why games like Armed and Dangerous came and went. There have been a few Star Wars games that have reached success, and there are plenty that were rated negatively among gamers. They need to prove that Star Wars games are worth buying, just like any other business.

And that lack of support is preventing them from selling a boatload of games?

Mod makers would appreciate the support. Battlefront could easily go the way of Force Commander or Star Wars Rebellion since PC gamers today almost expect quality mods with any 'good' game these days.


Why would they want them? They don't want the Star Wars continuity altered for starters, since some people may confuse the mods an official Star Wars product. They put out enough Star Wars games that extending the life of existing games would be a bad business move. The only incentive they need to get people to buy their product is to put Star Wars on the box...


Well it comes down to how a company wants to relate to its customers. I prefer games that have active mod communities. Compare Age of Empires with its many sequels to Warcraft. I prefer Warcraft because it actively supports mods. Blizzard believes in letting their users customize and mod their games. Age of Empires didn't really actively support mods the way Blizzard does. Warcraft is by far the more popular title these days.


Idei

Prime
06-05-2004, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by Idei
That's exactly the mindset that LucasArts has about its games and one of the reasons why games like Armed and Dangerous came and went. There have been a few Star Wars games that have reached success, and there are plenty that were rated negatively among gamers. They need to prove that Star Wars games are worth buying, just like any other business. I am not sure how old you are, but saying that there have been only a few successful Star Wars games dates you a bit :) Before the Episode I games fiasco, for the most part everything Lucasarts touched turned to gold. Dark Forces, Jedi knight, X-Wing, Tie Fighter, X-Wing Alliance and so on were all critically acclaimed games.

The poor reception of Episode I games obviously gave them a wake up call. Newer games have been successful more often than not. KOTOR is hailed as one of the best games of all time. Outcast was given very high praise. Even Jedi Academy, although ranking lower than JA, will still well above average in general rankings. For the most part, Star Wars games have been above average in terms of quality, and most definitely in terms of sales. I think it is safe to say that to most people Lucasarts has convinced them that their games are worth buying, mods or no.

Originally posted by Idei
Mod makers would appreciate the support. Battlefront could easily go the way of Force Commander or Star Wars Rebellion since PC gamers today almost expect quality mods with any 'good' game these days. Of course mod makers like me would appreciate support. But the fact of the matter is that Lucasarts owes us nothing. They make a product and we can decide whether we want that product or not. They are under no obligation to help players alter their product. No one should expect them to.

And I don't think that most PC gamers expect quality mods. First of all, the majority of players only play the SP portion of games and never touch MP. Most players never install or probably even know about mods. Look at KOTOR. I am a part of that game's modding community and it is a very small percentage of players that even know mods exist for it. Yet it is one of the most popular Star Wars games of all time.

If Battlefront is to end up like Force Commander, it is because it sucks, not because there is no mod support. Star Wars games do well or poorly on their own merits.

All I'm saying is that mods != success for a game, especially a Star Wars one.

Originally posted by Idei
Well it comes down to how a company wants to relate to its customers. I prefer games that have active mod communities. Compare Age of Empires with its many sequels to Warcraft. I prefer Warcraft because it actively supports mods. Blizzard believes in letting their users customize and mod their games. Age of Empires didn't really actively support mods the way Blizzard does. Warcraft is by far the more popular title these days. If you prefer games that have active mod communities, that's great. I hope Battlefront has one. But that is a personal preference, not a business requirement for success.

Are you saying that Warcraft is more popular than Empires solely because of mods? Empires has mods as well. What are you basing this on?

Lt. Havoc
06-07-2004, 09:57 AM
Giving fans the ability to edit the game and produce mods greatly expands the life of the game. True a huge majority don't even know of some mods exsistance but some titles are bought well after their release just so the player can play the mod and not the original game. Look at Counter Strike, Day of Defeat and Desert combat. You have players there which never touched the parent game. True they owe us nothing but the smart developer knows the true fans and how to keep them interested over the long term.

Idei
06-07-2004, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by Prime
I am not sure how old you are, but saying that there have been only a few successful Star Wars games dates you a bit :) Before the Episode I games fiasco, for the most part everything Lucasarts touched turned to gold. Dark Forces, Jedi knight, X-Wing, Tie Fighter, X-Wing Alliance and so on were all critically acclaimed games.

The poor reception of Episode I games obviously gave them a wake up call. Newer games have been successful more often than not. KOTOR is hailed as one of the best games of all time. Outcast was given very high praise. Even Jedi Academy, although ranking lower than JA, will still well above average in general rankings. For the most part, Star Wars games have been above average in terms of quality, and most definitely in terms of sales. I think it is safe to say that to most people Lucasarts has convinced them that their games are worth buying, mods or no.


Sure buddy.

That point of view only reflects that you are a Star Wars fan that will buy any 'above average' quality Star Wars game. Games like X-Wing were state-of-the-art at the time and I haven't seen any Star Wars games since that era that can make a similiar claim.

I believe that Battlefront should have a multiplayer demo to help bolster sales. Your position is that people will buy it regardless. Both of these points may be valid. Leave it at that.


And I don't think that most PC gamers expect quality mods. First of all, the majority of players only play the SP portion of games and never touch MP. Most players never install or probably even know about mods. Look at KOTOR. I am a part of that game's modding community and it is a very small percentage of players that even know mods exist for it. Yet it is one of the most popular Star Wars games of all time.

If Battlefront is to end up like Force Commander, it is because it sucks, not because there is no mod support. Star Wars games do well or poorly on their own merits.

All I'm saying is that mods != success for a game, especially a Star Wars one.


That had better be another hoax post Prime because that is way off base. Look at the games available on PCs today. Virtually all of them have a multiplayer feature. If players were focusing on SP only then developers would skip implementing that part of the game.

KOTOR may be one of the most popular Star Wars games of all time, but that still translates into a niche market game. If LucasArts wants any of their games to reach mainstream success they will have to provide the kind of features and support that games like Half-life and Unreal Tournament provide to their communities.

Mods help drive success in the world of PC games.
PC gamers do expect mods and mod support these days. Look at any game that supports multiplayer on the PC, and you will find a game that supports mods.


If you prefer games that have active mod communities, that's great. I hope Battlefront has one. But that is a personal preference, not a business requirement for success.


If LucasArts wants to have a mainstream success with Battlefront they will have to include all the features that games like Half-Life and Unreal provide. If they continue to isolate themselves from industry trends then Star Wars games will always remain a niche market, and I would like to see it go mainstream, assuming that the gameplay is balanced and well implemented.

Idei

tFighterPilot
06-07-2004, 01:50 PM
You see, games like half life, unreal and quake3 were meant to be used especially as base graphic engines, for games like JO and JA. Although Pandemic creates a new engine for the game, it's a Star Wars game, a specific game meant to be a game, not a graphic engine for other games.

I hope you understood what I jsut wrote, cuz I wrote while thinking.

Lt. Havoc
06-09-2004, 04:55 PM
True, for the longest time Valve, Id and Epic games made a huge sum of their income from licensing their engines even though they only had 1 title and maybe a couple expansions them. That is a big difference from those companies compared to Lucasarts. its hard to tell who has the better marketing ideology but with JO and JA Raven thought it best to provide mod tools. I hope its a trend which continues. As a company they may not see the need or possibilities which are linked to mod tools but at least provide us with the means and leave the option open to us. It becomes mutualism; we get to make the maps and mods we'd like and in return those items give the game a longer life.

Tyler_Durden
06-10-2004, 07:28 PM
The fact of the matter is that pandemic has said they will release mod tools after the game comes out, i think they stated that in a gamespot article, i can't remember. So we're covered there, no need to worry.

As the casual gamer goes, though, they don't have a clue about mods. I bought jedi knight two years after it came out and a year later found out about patches, mods, and such. And i think at the time it was like the best selling game ever. So i really don't think it's the community, it's more if the game is ground breaking or even good for it to be successful. Although, now i do think mods are going more mainstream which is why companies are now including them with the installation cd's.

In the future, though i think mod tools, as they become more popular and people figure out how to use them, will be integral to a game's success. I mean look at how many people want to mod this game and it hasn't even come out. This is gonna be a no-brainer for sure.

Prime
06-11-2004, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by Lt. Havoc
Giving fans the ability to edit the game and produce mods greatly expands the life of the game. True a huge majority don't even know of some mods exsistance but some titles are bought well after their release just so the player can play the mod and not the original game. Look at Counter Strike, Day of Defeat and Desert combat. You have players there which never touched the parent game. True they owe us nothing but the smart developer knows the true fans and how to keep them interested over the long term. But many game companies don't want to keep you interested in one game over the long term. They want you to buy the next game they put out.

Originally posted by Idei
Sure buddy.

That point of view only reflects that you are a Star Wars fan that will buy any 'above average' quality Star Wars game. Games like X-Wing were state-of-the-art at the time and I haven't seen any Star Wars games since that era that can make a similiar claim. But being a great game does not require that it be state of the art or revolutionary. Are KOTOR and the JK series not great games that have come out after the X-Wing series?

Originally posted by Idei
That had better be another hoax post Prime because that is way off base. Look at the games available on PCs today. Virtually all of them have a multiplayer feature. If players were focusing on SP only then developers would skip implementing that part of the game. Of course MP is a big area and lots of people play it. But if that was all they were playing, SP would have been ditched long ago. It hasn't.

Originally posted by Idei
KOTOR may be one of the most popular Star Wars games of all time, but that still translates into a niche market game. If LucasArts wants any of their games to reach mainstream success they will have to provide the kind of features and support that games like Half-life and Unreal Tournament provide to their communities. Not just one of the most popular Star Wars games, it was one of the most popular games period. It is the fastest selling game in XBox history, selling 270,000 copies in two weeks. (http://www.popcultureshock.com/news.php?id=182) It was the top selling PC game in the US during the week of May 22 (JA was number 5). When Jedi Outcast was released, it was the number one selling PC title in North America, as well as Germany and the UK. (http://wire.ign.com/articles/358/358343p1.html) Rogue Squadron II was the best-selling third-party game for the GameCube since the console's release. (http://www.gamespot.com/gamecube/action/starwarsrogueleaderrs2/news_2830267.html) Galaxies was well in the top ten in sales.

I don't see how you can that Star Wars games haven't been reaching mainstream success.

Originally posted by Idei
Mods help drive success in the world of PC games.
PC gamers do expect mods and mod support these days. Look at any game that supports multiplayer on the PC, and you will find a game that supports mods. They help, yes, but they are not the main or only reason for the success of a generic MP game. That's all I'm saying.

Originally posted by Idei
If LucasArts wants to have a mainstream success with Battlefront they will have to include all the features that games like Half-Life and Unreal provide. Or they could just make a great game that is fun to play. Or are you saying that if it is a great game without mod support, that it will be a financial failure?

Originally posted by Idei
If they continue to isolate themselves from industry trends then Star Wars games will always remain a niche market, and I would like to see it go mainstream, assuming that the gameplay is balanced and well implemented. I think I have shown that Star Wars games are by no means a niche market. :)

Idei
06-11-2004, 03:53 AM
The Star Wars movies are considered a mainstream success. They set box office records in sales that rank it among the best selling of all time. People talk about Star Wars the film, and they instantly know what you're talking about.

Mainstream success in the world of games is about being so good that it redefines the genre, or achieves high volume of sales. On consoles, games like the Final Fantasy series, Legend of Zelda series, and Halo come to mind. On PC, mainstream success is associated with staying power of a game. Top seller of all time, like The Sims, or value recognition, like Valve's Half-Life. This is usually accomplished with a graphics engine that is popular, flexible, and marketable separate of the game itself.

KOTOR is a great RPG, by all accounts, but its a smaller title on console, and on PC it doesn't generate the sales that Unreal, Quake, or Half-Life produce. There could be any number of reasons this might be true. RPGs only represent a part of the overall market. Graphic engines with licensing and modding tools might be more popular with the PC market. The company that produced KOTOR is known to be a RPG house, and some people skip RPGs.

If I recall correctly, Jedi series is based upon the Quake engine.
The games themselves were interesting, but nothing about them really added value to the genre. It was simply a Star Wars games that fans would enjoy.

That is a very good marketing strategy, but unfortunately in the world of PCs it gained LucasArts the reputation of playing it safe the past few years. Force Commander, Star Wars: Rebellion, Star Wars: Battlegrounds/Clone Campaigns all fall into this category. There are people that like Star Wars, but skip buying Star Wars games due to this reputation.

Star Wars games are considered niche market games. Visit the local store and they might have a copy or two of KOTOR on the shelf, but it won't be stacked with copies like Halo, Metal Gear Solid, or other mainstream titles.

Maybe with Episode I-III the interest in Star Wars games will be renewed. Maybe Battlefront will be that game that restores the Star Wars games to the status of mainstream. Mainstream being recognized as being tournament or professionally playable like Quake, Starcraft, and Counterstrike.

X-Wing is a good example of a LucasArts mainstream success. People liked it so much that they kept asking for sequels and multiplayer. Compared to any other space combat simulator in the market at the time, it was second to none.

Idei

Prime
06-11-2004, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by Idei
Mainstream success in the world of games is about being so good that it redefines the genre, or achieves high volume of sales. On consoles, games like the Final Fantasy series, Legend of Zelda series, and Halo come to mind. On PC, mainstream success is associated with staying power of a game. Top seller of all time, like The Sims, or value recognition, like Valve's Half-Life. This is usually accomplished with a graphics engine that is popular, flexible, and marketable separate of the game itself. Ah, I see that we have different views of what mainstream success entails. My definition is a bit broader. With your's, there are probably only single digit titles that could be considered mainstream successes. Fair enough.

Originally posted by Idei
KOTOR is a great RPG, by all accounts, but its a smaller title on console, and on PC it doesn't generate the sales that Unreal, Quake, or Half-Life produce. There could be any number of reasons this might be true. RPGs only represent a part of the overall market. Graphic engines with licensing and modding tools might be more popular with the PC market. The company that produced KOTOR is known to be a RPG house, and some people skip RPGs. True, but lots of people skip FPS and RTS games as well. RPGs are just another genre, but I think you will agree that it is one of the more popular ones.

Originally posted by Idei
If I recall correctly, Jedi series is based upon the Quake engine.
The games themselves were interesting, but nothing about them really added value to the genre. It was simply a Star Wars games that fans would enjoy. Again, I see that our definitions and criteria differ. Personally, I am happy to have Star Wars games that I as a fan enjoy. I do not require revolutionary or state of the art changes to have fun. Again, by your definition, there are very few games that have really added value to the various genres. How many games have really done something revolutionary to the FPS genre?

Originally posted by Idei
Star Wars games are considered niche market games. Visit the local store and they might have a copy or two of KOTOR on the shelf, but it won't be stacked with copies like Halo, Metal Gear Solid, or other mainstream titles. Again, then there are only a handleful of titles that have mainstream success. My definition differs, so there is no point debating that. I understand now where you are coming from...

Originally posted by Idei
Maybe with Episode I-III the interest in Star Wars games will be renewed. Still, I don't think interest in SW games has really fallen in the general gaming public for the most part. They are pretty consistently near the top of the sales chart.

Originally posted by Idei
Maybe Battlefront will be that game that restores the Star Wars games to the status of mainstream. Mainstream being recognized as being tournament or professionally playable like Quake, Starcraft, and Counterstrike.
Ah, so in that case games like KOTOR can never be considered mainstream successes, because it does not have multiplayer, and thus is not professionaly playable in tournaments. :)

Idei
06-11-2004, 03:43 PM
I was referring to the conditions where Battlefront would be considered a mainstream success.

KOTOR is a successful RPG, but compared to the sale volume and popularity of its peers it would still be a relatively small title, ie niche market. If KOTOR or KOTOR 2 become popular enough that people start buying console systems just to play KOTOR, then it will have realized the kind of mainstream success that games like Legend of Zelda or Final Fantasy enjoy.

As far as Stars Wars games are concerned there is a difference between the popularity of the movies and the popularity of the games. All of the Star Wars movies are ranked among the top box office hits of all time. One of the reasons that the original Star Wars was so successful is that redefined the genre. The same principle applies in the success of games.

Increased sales will bring in more players. Earlier I mentioned that this might be accomplished through demos or support of players interested in modifying the game. More players translates into better competitive play. That translates into people interested in making modifications that make the game better in some way. Both of these elements will add value to the gameplay of SWBF.

On the lighter side, there are a few posts on the forum about whether players can select any faction while playing the various maps. This is a mod that I would like to see if the game doesn't support it. Rebel vs Separatist, Imperial vs Republic, and other faction battles would be interesting to see.

Idei