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View Full Version : Siege classes, needed when or where?


Kurgan
05-27-2004, 04:37 PM
Raz, you wanted to know about this so I'm going to share what I know about Siege classes in general for the 3 included maps.

Siege Korriban:

Any class can win this one alone theoretically. Assault's staff can break through walls fast with katas, twirls, etc and the butterfly is good for clearing out defenders.

Against trip mines (which defense WILL use in abundance) you need one or more defenses:

Saber Throw (which Demolitions & Heavy Weapons have), Protect (which Tech, Heavy Weapons and I think Assault have) or simple be able to avoid them (using Jump).

Techs are very good on this map because they can use Protect and Heal to survive many smaller traps set by enemy Demolitionists. They can use Absorb to counter Dark Side powers, and use Mind Trick to sneak by the enemy. They have level 3 Jump meaning they (and Heavy weapons) can take the "hillside shortcut" to the ramp on the first objective (smashing the first gate without taking the easily defended ramp) as well as taking the "shortcut" to the blue crystal (hop up the ledges in the Crystal Room rather than using the slow easily defended elevator).

Techs are also awesome because they have fast force regeneration, meaning they can spam their powers a lot (including fast kata to destroy objects). Having Team Heal is wonderful to keep her teammates alive.

Heavy Weapons is great as a Carrier in general because he has SPEED (Scout also has speed, but lacks his Level 3 Jump and skill with saber). So he can do just about everything the Tech can do in terms of level navigation.

Heavy & Scout can use Speed to take a shortcut through the "crushing tunnels" on the Green Crystal (one way). Plus Heavy can use his superior jump to leap over the lava area on Green Crystal rather than having to get close and try to navigate the area (and risk being pushed in). Tech can do the same "jump over lava" trick, though she doesn't have speed.

Demolitions on this map is important because though he is slow, he can take out objectives rather well (once he gets to them that is). He can use his det pack and saber throw to detonate enemy mines and stack his Dets right on top of walls and the coffine then blow a bunch of mines at once. And if they kill him before he gets to throw the switch, the dets usually go off, blowing up the object anyway (with somewhat less force than if he actually hit the trigger himself to detonate).

Jedi seems useless at first, due to her slowness and limited force, but having two sabers means she can use saber barrier (plus wiggling the mouse for extra speed when they spin around her). She can take out walls fast and distract enemies while the others move on.

Scout I don't use much, but his high level of Speed can be used in a similar fashion to Heavy Weapons, and he's good for getting past defenders as a kamikaze (rush through mines, setting them off so that teammates behind him can pass through harmlessly if timed right).


Siege Korriban: Defense:


The main class used on Defense (and with good reason) is Demolitions. The Dark Jedi simply have a disadvantage when it comes to speed, since only the Dark Jedi Scout has speed and his weapons/force aren't very powerful.

Likewise, only a few classes have seeing (to see Mind Trick users) like the Tech and Demolitions.

In combat Demolitions are rather weak unless you're good with thermal detonator throwing. But setting up proper Trip Mine traps is essential to controlling the map from the offense. His seeing is good to detect mind Trick users.

Techs are very weak in combat but they can heal and keep the Demolitions stocked. He can restore mana, but this requires good use of Dark Force spamming by others. Techs are GREAT for lookouts because they have Level 3 Seeing (but if you're camping with a group Demolitions Level 1 seeing is enough).


Heavy Weapons is actually quite powerful since he has fast force regeneration and a high level of Push and Grip (meaning his job is to toss people into lava or slow them down for others to kill). He is the only one with Level 3 Jump so he can camp the Blue Crystal and other areas that way (with help).

The other classes I'm not so good at, generally because they require you to be a saber/force master. The trouble is that the Light Jedi's strategy will usually be to just run right by you with speed and use Absorb so that your powers are useless.

So typically what we do is have the Demolitionists seal off choke points with mines and camp vital areas with TD's ready to throw. Meanwhile Techs resupply them and the "saberists" simply patrol nearby to alert or slowdown the incoming Jedi (with the Pull/Push/Grip users tossing them into lava/off cliffs).


Offense can win with Techs+Heavy Weapons, but having some Demolitions makes it a bit easier. Variety is always good though. Defense needs some Demolitions at minimum and the rest is up to them.

More to come...

Kurgan
05-27-2004, 05:07 PM
Siege Hoth:

Imperials:

Everyone can complete the map theoretically on their own except for Tech, however only Assault can do it effectively from start to finish.

Assault needs to use his EWEB to take out structures in support (such as a fast way to clear out the rocks in the Wampa cave, or to assist the ATST in taking out the generator). His Repeater & ST Rifle are excellent for destroying computers in the Command Center and Repeater Alt Fire or the EWEB can take out the smashable switch in the Infirmary quite quickly.

The Jedi is great for taking shortcuts, though he's weak. He can use Mind Trick and slip by everyone but enemy Jedi, and his saber throw gets him quick kills (if aimed properly). Jedi can jump across the chasm to activate the Bridge very quickly while using the saber to block shots from everything including turrets. Jedi can take out Techs quickly (Techs that try to slow the walker). Jedi can (while holding the Droid head codes) leap across the chasm to the bunker switch and thus take a shortcut. Likewise they can take another shortcut to the Command Center (using the "cubbyhole" across from the locked elevator). Jedi are slow to take out computers though, so they need support.


Techs are valuable because they can hack the door to the "Ion Station" which provides a route for non-Jedi to the Bridge controls with ammo/shields (the only shields Imps can have on the map). After that they can hack the door leading to the infirmary (great if the elevator is heavily guarded). After this Techs don't have much use except their usual resupply and the ability to use Demp2 to shoot blind corners (blowing up enemy mines with the splash from secondary fire).

A technique I haven't practiced much but I know can work is to have a Tech follow a Heavy Weapons guy and simply feed him ammo so he can fire rockets forever. Techs can also "throw batteries" at an ATST which heals them, though this is such a slow method it probably won't amount to anything except giving it 1 more second of life.

Heavy Weapons is slow and weak, but his rockets can be good for taking out blocks of enemies and mines so that others can run past defenders. He can also fire his small supply of rockets at the Shield Generator to assist the walker. Destroying computers is easy for him, if he has a steady supply of ammunition and if he makes it this far alive (since he's so slow).

Demolitions can stack dets to blast through computers or rocks in one fell swoop or easily destroy the smashable switch to the elevator that leads to the Command Center. He's slow and weak otherwise, but his TD's can be used to take out enemies and detonate mines.

Trips are nice but he won't be doing much trap laying and he tends to blow himself up when he tries to use them as weapons.

Scout is actually quite useful. While he is weak, his Disruptor can hurt just about anything in the map that's damagable, so he can just keep firing and take out turrets, computers, the switch, etc. If you're good at sniping he can provide good cover. His Assault Sentry is just another way to distract defenders.

Being that the sniper rifle is his only offensive weapon, he's easily killed by Jedi or other snipers (who have cloaks).

Rebels :

Assault is great for just about everything except his slow foot speed. He can lay trip mines for defense (even tossing Secondary Trips from a safe distance away to kill the ATST in a pinch, with repeated tosses), plus he has his Flechette (an EXCELLENT weapon for clearing out enemies in 1 shot with secondary fire, though bad if a door closes on him and the shots bounce back). Repeater is a good weapon if accuracey is a factor and his ST Rifle is good team. Meaning that in close quarters shooting, he is always ready for action. Techs need to resupply his mines though. Plus he has bacta to heal.

Tech: An invaluable class on this map because she can heal, give ammo and more importantly repair damage, put up shields AND stun the Walker with Demp2.

She can detonate mines though so she should be careful not to detonate friendly mines on purpose. In combat she's weak unless facing low health adversaries like Jedi with properly timed Demp2 shots (secondary usually). The Seeker is nice but only lasts a short time. Shields can be used to seal off the Bridge controls, Droid room, AT-ST gate, Ion Station and anywhere else they are needed. Multiple Techs supporting a heavy weapons/Assault camping a vital area is a great idea.

Demolitions is a good class, but requires some skill and planning. Sealing off areas with Trip mines again like Korriban is a good idea. Remember that Jedi can saber throw mines and avoid the areas entirely by taking shortcuts. Plus your mines can be set off by friends very easily. But Hoth has a lot of choke points and blind elevators so he can drop TD's and other things to stop the enemy. He can even put Det packs on Switches to set them off a split second before the enemy can "use" them. He can use TD's on the walker but this is slow, he has many trips though he can use like the Assault uses his.

Scout is only for sniping enemies in a support role. His cloak is nice, but his Disruptor can't harm the AT-ST in any way.

The Jedi can move quickly and his force powers mean he can navigate and roam well. He can use seeing to detect enemy Jedi and push/pull them into chasms so they don't make the shortcuts. Against most non-Jedi he's lethal, able to use his second blade and saber throw to kill them quickly with virtual impunity, only falling victim to explosives and numbers (or overconfidence).

Offense can win with just Assaults, but having some Jedi too makes it easier. Techs for the first half of the mission also makes it a bit easier. Defense can win with Techs + just about anybody else (but especially Assault), but it helps to have a variety.

Kurgan
05-27-2004, 10:55 PM
Ok, so this isn't the info you wanted, that's fine.

I'll leave it up for trivia, but let me know if you want the rest.. ; )

TK-8252
06-07-2004, 11:42 PM
I've already completely redone siege classes. I absolutely hate how Raven set up siege.

razorace
06-08-2004, 03:12 AM
Originally posted by TK-8252
I've already completely redone siege classes. I absolutely hate how Raven set up siege.

Uh....ok. Exactly what does that have to do with the thread topic?

TK-8252
06-08-2004, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by razorace
Uh....ok. Exactly what does that have to do with the thread topic?

*Looks at topic.* Siege classes? Uh... it looks like its about siege classes. :confused:

razorace
06-08-2004, 05:01 PM
Well, we're actually talking about when and how the bots should use the siege classes.

Please explain what you're talking about.

TK-8252
06-08-2004, 05:32 PM
Oh, never mind then. :p

I just wanted to emphasize that I hate Raven's siege classes. :)