PDA

View Full Version : Will these be the TRUE SITH LORDS???


Naphtali
06-13-2004, 05:46 PM
IM sure im not the only one who felt this way, but the SIth in part 1 were dorks and geeks. In particular on Korriban, its as if they just claim evil not having any reason for it. Their understanding of the force was also less than elementary.

Also it seemed that Malak relied to much on the Star Forge. All in all it seemed that Reven with possession of the star Forge took the title of Sith, they didn't seem to really be apart of it as far as following history.

What do you guys think?
I hope theirs something pointed out in Sith Lords, that these are the true Sith and Reven and Malak were just pretenders.

Hiroki
06-14-2004, 07:46 PM
True Sith? I do not understand where you are coming from. What made Revan and Malak pretenders? Malak, yes, because he never really prooved that he was more powerful than Revan. But why was Revan not a true Sith Lord?

Naphtali
06-15-2004, 03:14 AM
Originally posted by Hiroki
True Sith? I do not understand where you are coming from. What made Revan and Malak pretenders? Malak, yes, because he never really prooved that he was more powerful than Revan. But why was Revan not a true Sith Lord?

The Sith seemed to just claim evil, having no reason to align themselves with the darkside.
Reven it seemed just claimed Sith Lord because he had the power of the Star Forge to back him, which the main sith had knowledge of but didn't create.
The academy sith were especially goofy.
Perhaps in Sith Lords the incarnation of the Sith will be more menacing, actuallt threatening. And truly villanous, and having complexities and depth to them.

Toa Tahu
06-15-2004, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by Naphtali
The academy sith were especially goofy.
Perhaps in Sith Lords the incarnation of the Sith will be more menacing, actually threatening. And truly villanous, and having complexities and depth to them.

Yeah...I have to agree with Naphtali on this one...the Sith in KotOR just had no depth to their character...they were somewhat...hollow...not truly menacing enough to befit their Sith characteristics.Sith should be much more menacing than that,do you?By the way,if there are facial actions and agressive attacks,they should implement them to the Sith's attacks,since their attacks are all purely hate-based,so they should show much more hate in their attacks.

Sieg
06-15-2004, 10:19 AM
When i agree that the Dark side in KOTOR was viewed as "bunch of thugs who want to deal pain" even on the Sith Academy, you at least got to say that Uther was the best personification of a real Sith in the game, he had intellegent reasons for beinga Sith he backed them with arguments and he had power, when i killed him, it almost felt that i killed Darth Vader, althought killing Malak was by far more fun in terms of fighting, i won him with 5 life, it gave a very movie like feel, especially with the music.

Blessèd Sith
06-16-2004, 03:01 PM
Revan you had to give depth yourself . . . Malak I loathed *grumbles* and the other Sith . . . Gods, so stereotypical.

*Says in high-pitch whiny voice:*
"I'm angry and stupid and I'm gonna kill you!!"

>_< Damn it, no! Naphtali was almost completely right. The Sith in the game were fools and weaklings. None of them understood the code and they were solely bullies. True, it's great fun to be a bully when you're Sith, because you can do whatever the bloody hell you like (okay, within reason. Forethought anyone?). However, that's for your entertainment when you're NOT training.

Uthar was great. I really liked him. Yuthera was too weak, but still, not a horrid Sith . . . No students took the training or the Sith seriously (saving Uthar); luckly, you could make them pay for their transgressions.

But the main problem, I think, is everyones misconceptions of the dark side and the Sith. Even your own character had to be a bully to be Sith. No one was painted to be a real Sith, only a bunch of punks who were trying to prove themselves. And if you have to "prove" you're Sith by living up to Jedi/social stereotypes, then you aren't really a Sith.

As it stands, though, the Lords will probably be a bunch of floudering, prancing fools who're a few steps short of wearing a tutu, or running around squealing because they busted a nail. *Stomps off, grumbling.*

PS: Another problem. Sith delight in a fight or killing was WAY too hollow and/or false and/or forced. It was as if they were saying: "Okay, I'm Sith, I'm supposed to like fighting, so I'll give a fake laugh; that way, I'll seem big and tough and it will seem like I'm enjoying this!"
NO! >_< Sith revel in battle, in the kill. I suppose I understand why there couldn't be more options at the end of a battle for slaying your enemy for those of more . . . Sithly bend, heh, but still. Hopefully the Lords at least will be a bit more, well, wicked. Even if the general characters can't be.

Please give us and lets us be real Sith. Not just bullies.

And I don't think Revan was a pretender. Perhaps I'm just bias for myself ^_^ but he/she/it has a nice resumé. I won't bother going into it now, we should all know it as it is . . . Malak, however, is a liar, a weakling and a fool. He was the definate pretender.

lukeiamyourdad
06-17-2004, 11:08 PM
Uthar was the only one who had style. Malak probably had and maybe Revan had too but both had little character development(well when they were Sith lords at least).
Malak got almost zero character development. We never got the chance to really learn about him.

I think the Sith students at the Academy were well represented. Uthar had style because he was the master and he was older. The students are only brats and hooligans trying to stir up some trouble. There's a significant difference between students and masters.

Lord of Banthas
06-23-2004, 11:28 AM
I think Revan and Uthar were the best Sith characters in the game.

I believe that Revan was the character with greatest potential for emotional depth, since you could build it throughout the game. Also he did have a reason to turn to the darkside, turning away from the council to fight in the Mandalorian Wars.

RedHawke
06-24-2004, 01:48 AM
I agree with Naphtali, the Sith in KOTOR were portraied as arrogant bullies, and whiny little cowards, I don't even think anyone in the game qualified as a true Dark Sith.

Revan came close but the Star Forge dependancy was his/her downfall, Uthar was also the only other one who seemed to have his head screwed on right. Malak had the heart, but that was it. The rest of the Sith were all whiny little pretenders.

A True Dark Lord of the Sith's name would not even be known by the galaxy at large, and the Dark Lord's would seek to wield their power from the shadows, or behind the scenes. Manipulating events to bring about their desired results, they could have the grand Sith fleet but it would be commanded by a loyal figurehead.

Example: Grand Moff Tarkin in Episode 4, he was in command of the Death Star and the Imperial Fleet, he ordered the Destruction of Alderaan, he was the percieved evil, all the while serving the cause of Darth Sideous/Emperor Palapatine, and that's the way a True Dark Lord of the Sith operates. If you must show your hand/existance at some point that is when you send your apprentice out to handle it, like Darth Maul was sent after Queen Amidala in Episode 1.

Of course this is all just my opinion, and I could be wrong! :D

deathdisco
06-24-2004, 09:17 AM
A True Dark Lord of the Sith's name would not even be known by the galaxy at large, and the Dark Lord's would seek to wield their power from the shadows, or behind the scenes. Manipulating events to bring about their desired results....

I'm no EU expert but here's my take. Being that these events occured before the rule of two, Isn't this the sort of behavior that nearly brought the entire extinction of the Sith. The Sith were their own worst enemy.

Prime
06-24-2004, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by deathdisco
I'm no EU expert but here's my take. Being that these events occured before the rule of two, Isn't this the sort of behavior that nearly brought the entire extinction of the Sith. The Sith were their own worst enemy. Correct. The actions of the Sith in KOTOR is exactly why Bane implemented the rule of two.

RedHawke
06-25-2004, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by RedHawke
A True Dark Lord of the Sith's name would not even be known by the galaxy at large, and the Dark Lord's would seek to wield their power from the shadows, or behind the scenes. Manipulating events to bring about their desired results....

Originally posted by deathdisco
I'm no EU expert but here's my take. Being that these events occured before the rule of two, Isn't this the sort of behavior that nearly brought the entire extinction of the Sith. The Sith were their own worst enemy.

But deathdisco... How did you get an EU reference out of my 'how a Sith should really be' statement. I wasn't talking about EU, I was talking about the Sith in the actual movies? :confused:

Prime
06-25-2004, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by RedHawke
A True Dark Lord of the Sith's name would not even be known by the galaxy at large It is likely that Vader was fairly well known.

Originally posted by RedHawke
and the Dark Lord's would seek to wield their power from the shadows, or behind the scenes. Manipulating events to bring about their desired results, But they would use different strategies depending on the situatiuon and what they learned. The Sith Lords (namely Malak) had an entire fleet at their disposal that was loyal to the Sith cause (thus no need to hide your identity, and in that case it seems to have helped recruit). Why do things through secrecy and manipulation when you can take the galaxy by force? It would have been possible for Malak's fleet to conquer and control the galaxy in a few years. Doing so politically and behind the scenes would take more like decades, as in the case of Palpatine. One method is no more desirable than the other. They are both the means to an end, which is what is important.

Also remember that KOTOR is 4000 years before the Battle of Yavin. That is a lot of time to learn from mistakes. The Sith found that having a large society that knocked each other off all the time was not compatible to taking over the galaxy through military power. So Bane implemented the rule of two and the Sith ways began to focus more on other means, culminating in how we see Palpatine operating.

I think KOTOR does a good job of showing what the Sith were like at that point in history (it certainly is accurate from what other EU material states), and their behavior makes sense considering the resources and climate at the time. :)

Samnmax221
06-25-2004, 12:11 PM
while we're on the topic of the sith lords. What happens on the levaithen when you get the truth about your charectter if its a female?

Poggle
06-25-2004, 07:04 PM
The same thing as if your male!
By the way great post prime ;)

Blessèd Sith
06-26-2004, 01:23 AM
Then your character is female -_- Why do Sith and leaders have to be male? What would be the difference between a female and male character (other than the romances and how they're addressed)?

Samnmax221
06-26-2004, 03:08 PM
no its just that it lightly specifies Revan as bing male I just wondered if they explained it?

Hiroki
06-30-2004, 03:33 PM
Of course Revans male. No ex-Sith Lord would be stupid enough to go with Carth...

deathdisco
06-30-2004, 10:09 PM
But deathdisco... How did you get an EU reference out of my 'how a Sith should really be' statement. I wasn't talking about EU, I was talking about the Sith in the actual movies?

I brought up the EU because of the rule of two. It explains the whole subterfuge/working from the shadows aspect. Also isn't most of the Sith backstory from the EU?

I was just pointing out that the modern/movie Sith were a different breed. For the better of course:lightning:vadar:

RedHawke
06-30-2004, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by deathdisco
I was just pointing out that the modern/movie Sith were a different breed. For the better of course:lightning:vadar:

Definately, far more dangerous, and more my style. :lightning

FiEND_138
07-01-2004, 01:09 AM
Malak showed me some style at 1 point in the game, unfortunatly not really any more than that. When he turned Taris into rubble for not being able to find 1 person, that was oozing with Sith Lord evil. Yeah, I see what your saying, the subterfuge of Sidious is what I think about when I hear the term Sith Lord.

Anyways, I really hope the Lords of this game actually have a more.... sinister touch to them. & hopefully a variation in the models, & their not all dressed like JO reborns, wearing jammies with a mask :yodac:

Also, for the PC side of the dark, it's more than a back alley thug beating people up for money.

RedHawke
07-01-2004, 05:29 AM
Originally posted by FiEND_138
Anyways, I really hope the Lords of this game actually have a more.... sinister touch to them. & hopefully a variation in the models, & their not all dressed like JO reborns, wearing jammies with a mask :yodac:

LOL! Jammies with a mask... Thats a good one FiEND!

SpaceButler13
07-22-2004, 07:23 PM
Not to go OT but I thought the Sith Troopers were a letdown too. They should have had some mercs and built them up a bit more instead of being the weakest cannon-fodder in the game. They definitely need some more elite shock-troops too next time.

Hiroki
07-22-2004, 07:32 PM
Of course they where canon fodder. They where the Storm Troopers of the Sith Army. What did you expect?

FiEND_138
07-22-2004, 08:25 PM
^^
Agreed.

I would like to see some 'elite shock troops' for the sith army too. You have the standard fodder & something a bit more difficult to kill. Could be cool.

{SITH}LazeruS
07-22-2004, 08:38 PM
^^ agrees too

When you claim title at the end as Sith Lord for the Darkside in Kotor, you see a few sith guys infront of you, well more then a few but you see a diff type of droids, could this be the upper class fighter we will see in KOTOR2??

yah those dam sith soldiers were like BIG TIME BANTHA FOOD, kill 5 get the next 5 sith soldiers dead for free lol

Mav
07-23-2004, 12:56 AM
I don't care for the weak Sith soldier they don't bother me when they are dead :) hehehe ;).

What do I want to see you ask, well I know it wont happen but I want one of the Sith Lords to either Master Vandar gone bad hehehehe or another one of his and Yoda's species, I mean how awesome would it be to see one of those guys turn to the Darkside :):D:):D:)

RedHawke
07-23-2004, 04:57 AM
^^^^
[Dark Yoda Voice]Join the Sith you will... or die![/Dark Yoda Voice]

But seriously, the Sith Soldiers were supposed to be cannon fodder... just like the good ol' Imperial Stormtroopers... and now with the prequels; The Genosians, Battle Droids and Clone Troopers... oh my! :eek:

:D

Prime
07-23-2004, 11:15 AM
If you want tougher villians, don't use any lightsaber crystals, implants, guantlets, armour, Jedi robes, or upgraded weapons. Oh, and set your strength and dexterity to 8.

The game will get tough real quick. ;)

Mav
07-23-2004, 04:10 PM
LOL good one Prime!!:D

RedHawke
07-24-2004, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by Prime
If you want tougher villians, don't use any lightsaber crystals, implants, guantlets, armour, Jedi robes, or upgraded weapons. Oh, and set your strength and dexterity to 8.

The game will get tough real quick. ;)

LOL! Good One Prime! :D

But very, very true... try that on the difficult setting on the Star Forge some time it will open your eyes.

Mav
07-24-2004, 01:12 AM
Originally posted by RedHawke
But very, very true... try that on the difficult setting on the Star Forge some time it will open your eyes.

I actually tried somethign very similar to that.....Survival Mod.... and let's just say that well, if it were "real life" my jedi would be most likely missing a few limbs....

RedHawke
07-24-2004, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by maverick187
I actually tried somethign very similar to that.....Survival Mod.... and let's just say that well, if it were "real life" my jedi would be most likely missing a few limbs....

Yup, or the main PC would at least need a change of underwear! :D

Really Off Topic: Ahh... missing limbs... reminds me of days gone by... the late 80's... AD&D... Dragon Magazine and the Wandering Random Damage Tables, with the ever popular limb-loss sub-table.

Hiroki
07-24-2004, 07:08 PM
Perhaps the Sith Soldiers in KOTOR II will be more like Clone Troopers ( skilled ) , and less like Storm Troopers ( not so skilled... ).

Though instead of the Sith Soldier degrading from poor cloning choices as the Storm Trooper did, they could instead have undergone a intense training program after KOTOR, and perhaps now be tougher from it.

Probably not, but one can always hope.

FiEND_138
07-24-2004, 07:50 PM
If you want tougher villians, don't use any lightsaber crystals, implants, guantlets, armour, Jedi robes, or upgraded weapons. Oh, and set your strength and dexterity to 8.

The game will get tough real quick. ;)

1 of the most fun play throughs, all be it hair pulling experiences, I've had in this game since I bought it. Good times.

RedHawke
07-24-2004, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by Hiroki
Perhaps the Sith Soldiers in KOTOR II will be more like Clone Troopers ( skilled ) , and less like Storm Troopers ( not so skilled... ).

Actually from my own inferring somewhat into EP2 I believe Yoda had a lot to do with the Clone Troopers efficiency in the Genosian battle, possibly he has a version of a battle meditation like ability.

This also would explain Dooku/Tyrannus quick departure upon Yoda's arrival, he more than anyone else knew what Yoda could do, I always wondered why he didn't enjoy the moment, that he worked a very long time for, more than he did.

Of course this is just my random thoughts on the subject! :D

Hiroki
07-25-2004, 12:42 AM
Actually, it is a well known fact that the Clone Troopers where far more efficient than the Storm Troopers. You see, the Clone Troopers where all made from Jango Fett, and there for where Mandalorians.

Storm Troopers, however, by the time of A New Hope had undergone some rather sad changes. They no longer cloned them purely from Jango Fett, in fact, most where cloned from other hosts. The choosing of the hosts where often for more political reasons than strategic. Which explains some of the moments of laughable inaccuracy on there part.

The other percentage of Storm Troopers where Imperial Academy graduates. They where skilled, but I still doubt on the level of the Clone Troopers. But the main problem with the Imperial army at that point was the faulty host choices for there cloned soldiers.

Mav
07-25-2004, 03:44 AM
^^^^^

I never even knew that Stormtroopers were clones.....cool

FiEND_138
07-25-2004, 03:51 AM
I didn't know they used a different host than Jango. I guess I just assumed that the poorer quality of the stormtroopers was due to, too using Jango's DNA a few too many times. Kind of like making a copy of a tape from a copy, from another copy, etc.

O well, thanx for the info Hiroki

kome566
08-14-2004, 08:08 PM
:eyeraise: Multiple Hosts...No wonder storm-troopers suck!:D

Clone-Troopers were elite because they had color!.All the Elite ST's just had an Shoulder Pad...WoW

kome566
08-14-2004, 10:37 PM
And True Sith are extinct,now there are just Sith,those who believe in what the True Sith believed in.Such True Sith I believe are at Korriban ...?Well theyre dead so.....No more information. :D

RedHawke
08-15-2004, 03:59 AM
Originally posted by kome566
:eyeraise: Multiple Hosts...No wonder storm-troopers suck!:D

Clone-Troopers were elite because they had color!.All the Elite ST's just had an Shoulder Pad...WoW

I thought the Stormtroopers with the one Orange Shoulder Pad was the Desert Trooper or the Desert Assault Stormtrooper?

Like the ones with the White coverings on the Helmet and the Goggle eyepiece, and the white skirt was called the Snow Troopers or Cold Assault Stormtroopers.

FiEND_138
08-15-2004, 08:47 AM
You're both right (http://starwars.com/databank/organization/sandtroopers/index.html)

RedHawke
08-16-2004, 12:47 AM
^^^^
Yup FiEND I know the subtle differences in Imperial cannon fodder! :D

Or would that be Faceless Minions?

Mike Frank
08-27-2004, 09:11 PM
I didn't think the sith were all that bad. They could have been more intimidating though.

But it was cool how you could debate about the dark side and people (really just Uthar) would give reasons for it. And a lot of the funniest stuff happened on Korriban.

90SK
09-20-2004, 05:18 AM
Heres a bit of trivia for those who don't already know it (don't ask me how I know this), but technically Revan and Malak shouldnt have the tital of "Darth" at all, because in Dark Horse comics it says that Darth Bane was the only surviving Sith after the battle of Rusaan (did I spell that right?) and he proclaimed that all sith shall have the tital of "Darth". Only problem is that was 1000 years before episode 1, and KotOR is 4000 years before episode 1. :eek: :eek: :eek:

90SK
09-20-2004, 05:19 AM
Yikes! Old thread! I probably should have checked the date. I hope 1 month difference isnt too bad...

FiEND_138
09-20-2004, 11:57 PM
Heh yeah, I was kind of wondering about that myself. With Bane being pretty much all of the knowledge I possess about the EU (except for games), it left me kind of confused. O well, I'm sure some hack... excuse me EU author will write another novel to clear the discrephency.

Hiroki
09-21-2004, 05:05 AM
Yeah, Darth shouldn't have actually been around at that time...but oh well. They where just called Sith Lords back then.

Prime
09-21-2004, 06:16 AM
But it does help the casual fan become more familiar with the game.

lukeiamyourdad
09-21-2004, 07:55 AM
True. Not all the KOTOR players know about Bane. Putting Darth in the bad guys' names helped people to identify them to the movie's sith lords.

XBebop
09-21-2004, 04:48 PM
Fo' Shizzle, Luke. Yeah, yeah. All dose peeps' who not be down wit' da EU **** wouldn't get dis **** if they weren't not called no Darth, man. Got it?

DarthBuzzard
09-21-2004, 05:30 PM
^^err...no?

Darth just gives the game a more authentic feel, like you can relate it to the movies and become interested.

Hiroki
09-21-2004, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by XBebop
Fo' Shizzle, Luke. Yeah, yeah. All dose peeps' who not be down wit' da EU **** wouldn't get dis **** if they weren't not called no Darth, man. Got it?

*splutters* :rofl:

Ahh damn that was good. :D

lukeiamyourdad
09-21-2004, 06:30 PM
Uh sure all casual fans sound like that...yeah sure...whatever you say man :D

RedHawke
09-24-2004, 05:24 AM
Originally posted by XBebop
Fo' Shizzle, Luke. Yeah, yeah. All dose peeps' who not be down wit' da EU **** wouldn't get dis **** if they weren't not called no Darth, man. Got it?

Uhh... what are you saying? :eyeraise:

Aleggy
09-24-2004, 05:38 AM
ok one thing that did kinda confuse me in kotor was when u were on other planets and you had to deal with the sith, they always came at you in threesomes, and yuthura asked for you help to kill her mentor

now if you look in all the films the sith take great joy and pride in killing their enemy's on their own they dont need or want any help
and the only time they talk during the fight is to bait u or to laugh at ur pathetic atempt

Aleggy
09-24-2004, 05:40 AM
ok thinking about it vader did ask luke to join him to destroy the emperor so maybe yuthura isnt as weak a sith as i thought