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View Full Version : Ron Gilbert Or Pirates I Need Your Help To Solve A Monkeys Island 2 Mystery


Largo LaGrande
06-19-2004, 06:13 AM
Ahh 2D hereís a question for my fellow hardcore Monkeys Island 2 fans. Why does the Woodsmith on Woodtick look remarkably exactly like Largo LaGrande?.

The first time I played Monkeys Island 2 when it first came out many years ago. As soon as I saw the Woodsmith I immediately thought although he is taller that he was to going to be Largo LaGrande in disguise he looks that much like him. It turned out he was just a Woodsmith that looks exactly like Largo LaGrande was there a reason for this or was it just to play with our Minds.

What do you think Maybe there is no reason and they just look very much like each other by coincidence.

I need to know the truth; one of the other spooky similarities is that they both like the colour green is the Woodsmith Largo LaGrande in Cuban heel boots. Im a hard core Monkeys Island Fan I know everything and anything there is to know about Monkeys Island 2 and I cant find out, I have asked Remi Olsen at The Scumm Bar he also had no idea. So I guess the only person who could really answer this question is Monkeys Island Genius Creator Ron Gilbert.

Please help. :sweating:

Jedi-Monkey
06-19-2004, 09:19 AM
I had the same theory. This truely is a mystery.
We need Batman.

Largo LaGrande
06-19-2004, 02:16 PM
Cool you also had the same theory my friend also had the same theory theres alot of lot of us MI2 Fans then who also think this. There was alot of things Ron Gilbert Left out of Monkey Island 2 Ideas, characters, Rooms, Islands, Sceanery, storylines and alot of things left in that were linked to the things left out. Maybe there was storyline left out in which the woodsmith was going to be largo in disgiuse or largos brother, Dad or something and they left the Largo look alike Woodsmith in the game so when we play it we think the Woodsmith is Largo. Either way Ron Gilbert is the only one who can tell us the truth.

Thanks Pirate

Dr Edison 007
06-19-2004, 05:49 PM
You're looking too far into this and you are far too obsessed with Largo.

Largo LaGrande
06-20-2004, 09:01 PM
We are all obsessed with Monkeys Island thatís why were called fans. My favourite Monkeys Island character is the MI2 version of GuyBrush Threepwood not Largo all though Largo is a very good character. I am not obsessed with Largo in particular I am just interested in finding out the truth behind the Theory. And it isnít just me who is interested in this theory theyíre a lot of Monkeys Island Fans who also had the same theory.


:guybrush:

Skinkie
06-23-2004, 01:34 AM
Maybe they ran out of sprites, or time, or both.

Largo LaGrande
06-23-2004, 06:23 AM
Skinkie Maybe they ran out of sprites, or time, or both

That was not the reason its at the begining of the game this part of the project was created first. Also if there was time restrictions they would have run out of time towards making the end of the game project. In MI2's case time was not a problem back then also you do not run out of sprites or pixels.

:monkey4: :monkey4: :monkey4: :sweating:

Das Mole
06-23-2004, 12:56 PM
well, actually, the woodsmith could've been drawn later in the game. not everything had to be done in the exact sequential order that you see it in the game. they could've drawn one screen or one person from later in the game earlier in the development. b/c i'm sure multiple people were working on the art at the same time, covering different aspects of the game. that's usually how a game is made.

it's obviously just a coincidence, b/c why would they make the woodsmith look like largo lagrande on purpose? it makes no sense. it's a coincidence. largo has absolutely nothing to do with the woodsmith. i think you're going too deep looking for answers. just like if you have to analyze a book in a literacy class (yick), people say "he used this symbolism on purpose" and they go so far into depth, when it could've not even meant anything at all.

there are people that look like other people in life, you know. someone could have a similar body structure as someone else. plus, the woodsmith had a hat on, didn't he? i don't know. either way, his hair was not back and sort of in dreadlocks or braids or whatever largo's hair was. largo's hair looked like nick nolte's hair in that one mugshot he took. the woodsmith's hair didn't look like that.

plus, this game was made in 1991 :¨: what do you expect? to have every single person to look unique in their own special way? there are probably well over 50 people in the game, and it's not necessarily easy to draw that many people and have them all look different.

anyway...i say it's just a coincidence, but if you don't think it is, then whatever. that's what you think.

Largo LaGrande
06-23-2004, 02:41 PM
well, actually, the woodsmith could've been drawn later in the game. not everything had to be done in the exact sequential order that you see it in the game. they could've drawn one screen or one person from later in the game earlier in the development. b/c i'm sure multiple people were working on the art at the same time, covering different aspects of the game. that's usually how a game is made.

it's obviously just a coincidence, b/c why would they make the woodsmith look like largo lagrande on purpose? it makes no sense. it's a coincidence. largo has absolutely nothing to do with the woodsmith.

Your quite right sometimes the begining of the game is somtimes the last thing the games creaters make. But this most usually happens to games devlopers who have i great idea but have no real set path and exact vision to follow sequentionally.

But in MI1, MI2s case the format is a story game and all proffesionall games companys back then and right now when making story games work in the same way Lucasarts and Ron Gilbert and his team did the book or script is usually written as example Monkeys Island was written "The Memoirs of Guybrush Threepwood, the Monkey Island Years" so the exact sequential order in how the game was to be developed was already known.

The characters Islands, Rooms, sceanery, tasks and puzzels ect was then created in scetched storyboard form as the lead desiner wanted. And when these are ready they are looked at carfully. As a team they all must of seen how simular the two characters Largo and The Woodsmith looked and they would of changed them for that reason if they dident want to confuse us but for some strange reason they left them as they were
and then transformed them into the game level by level.

And therefore since playing Monkeys Island 2 in 1991 Myself and Many others have a simular theory as to why the Woodsmith and Largo were so a like.

Clones, twins, Fathers and sons look like each other there is alot of characters charcaters in MI2 only 2 characters look so much a like. And simular games of that time such and Indiana Jones and the fate of atlantis, Curse of Enchantia. The Legend of Kyriandia. They had even more charcters than MI2 none of there characters looked very simular out of all the characters in all them games.

This is my opinion i respect your views Pirate.

:monkey4: :monkey4: :monkey4: :sweating:

Joshi
06-24-2004, 12:49 PM
We need an urgent comparison (for those with no immediate access to the game or who can't be bothered)

http://www.milegend.com/characters/images/largo.gif http://www.milegend.com/characters/images/woodsmith.gif

Hmm, I'd say that the do have some similarities, altough I never actually noticed it before. The characters didn't reaslly match though. Like in SOMI, when LeChuck got out of the Shinetop Skin, you kind of went 'Ah, that makes a lot of sense and is also entertaining (or something along those lines) but if I were to suddenly see the woodsmith take off some stilts and so on to become Largo, i'd be like 'What the hell?!'. It would be entertaining, but I don't think it'd be as believable.

I don't really know any history behind it, but as a guess, I'd say when creating the sprites, they created the main charcters and then, with the very little pixels that they could use, they created the woodsmith and accidentally made it look somewhat like largo. You may think that's a very low possibiliy, but because of the very few pixels used, it would actually be very easy to do.

That, or it's just some injok we don't know about, like how the stump joke was meant to play with our heads and make us think we lost a disk.

Largo LaGrande
06-24-2004, 01:43 PM
Thanks You have some good points and intressing theorys.

I know alot of the crew who made Monkeys Island 1,2 vist these pages and i am sure Ron Gilbert visits the Scumm Bar and the MI Forum i hope Ron finds this section and tells us the real reason why they made them look so alike. I hope and I am almost sure they did it to make us think he was Largo in order to play with our minds. The Woodsmith did work in a peg shop i thought he may have been wearing pegs to make himself taller. It couldnt of been a simple mistake making them look a like.

Thanks alot For the Largo and Woodsmith comparison pictures.

Skinkie
06-25-2004, 01:44 AM
I'd like to point out I really don't think they look much alike. Different height, different skin color, different clothing different shades of hair. I'm just not seeing it.

Largo LaGrande
06-25-2004, 07:42 AM
I'd like to point out I really don't think they look much alike. Different height, different skin color, different clothing different shades of hair. I'm just not seeing it.

There are absolutely loads of MI2 fans that have the same theories as myself. I have spoken to fans on here and many other fan sights and I have spoken with loads of MI2 fans personally. You are welcome to have an opinion and I respect it pirate you have clearly lost your monocle.

:monkey4: :monkey4: :monkey4: :sweating:

Joshi
06-25-2004, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by Largo LaGrande
Thanks You have some good points and intressing theorys.

I know alot of the crew who made Monkeys Island 1,2 vist these pages and i am sure Ron Gilbert visits the Scumm Bar and the MI Forum...

You know or you think? I've never seen anyone of that nature on these sites (apart from Tim Schafer that once when the scumm bar announced it's closure) and im sure we would have spotted something if they posted. The reason being that almost all of the people who come onto these boards, but not for help are usually under about 21-22 (or oldies) and show this through teh way they post. I haven't yet seen a 'grown up' post on these boards (okay, so it is a monkey island board, but you know what I mean) and I've been here since 2001 (the boards opened in 2000, although i'm not sure about the mojo MI boards)

All I'm really saying is that you can't be entirely sure that they frequent these places.

And Ron Gilbert has gone on record as saying the scummbar is his favorite MI site, but that doesn't mean he visits it on a regular basis. Again, it can only be speculation.

Skinkie
06-26-2004, 01:30 AM
Originally posted by Largo LaGrande
I have spoken to fans on here and many other fan sights and I have spoken with loads of MI2 fans personally in person.



Personally in person. My new favorite phrase. (Not trying to pick on you, just find it amusing)

Largo LaGrande
06-26-2004, 07:24 AM
You know or you think? I've never seen anyone of that nature on these sites (apart from Tim Schafer that once when the scumm bar announced it's closure) and im sure we would have spotted something if they posted. The reason being that almost all of the people who come onto these boards, but not for help are usually under about 21-22 (or oldies) and show this through teh way they post. I haven't yet seen a 'grown up' post on these boards (okay, so it is a monkey island board, but you know what I mean) and I've been here since 2001 (the boards opened in 2000, although i'm not sure about the mojo MI boards)

Joshi I will have to correct you said you have never seen a grown up post on these boards that i agree you cant actually see us or can you. Either way I am 25 so i guess you can concider myself a grown up as for oldie i prefer to be called a Veteran Gamer. Ron Gilbert and Team may or may not actually post on here but they do visit the Scumm Bar and some times the forums and have said this in interviews at the Scumm Bar.And hopefully he or his old team may read this post and tell the truth behind our theory.

I respect you pirate.


:monkey4: :monkey4: :monkey4: :sweating:

Largo LaGrande
06-26-2004, 07:39 AM
Personally in person. My new favorite phrase. (Not trying to pick on you, just find it amusing)

Skinkie No offence taken but if you havent anything intressting or relevent to add to the subject of my section, I wouldnt be at all offended if you dont post on this area.

:guybrush:

Joshi
06-26-2004, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by Largo LaGrande
Skinkie No offence taken but if you havent anything intressting or relevent to add to the subject of my section, I wouldnt be at all offended if you dont post on this area.

:guybrush:

Likewise.

And I've personally never seen an interview When gilbert has said he visits these forums. He visits the scumm bar site, sure enough, and some other sites, but I've never seen nor heard of him on a forum.

And my age prediction comes from the way most people act on this site. Granne, and oldie that doesn't come by anymore was in his late 20's and despite his immaturity, he still had a sense of age about him or at least more age than most around here (lets face it, late 20's isn't old). and most other people tend to give a sense of immaturity which basically says 'I'm young, and lovin' it' (not McDonalds referance intended) and most of the time, I'm right in thinking they're about 14-16.

Captain Gonzo
06-26-2004, 06:51 PM
It's an interesting idea and it'd be cool if there were some hidden complexities to MI2 that haven't yet been spotted. Personally, I'd like to say I don't see a massive similarity.

There was a lot cut out of the game because of time, whether that includes Part One I don't know, but if so I suppose it's possible he was a Largo relative who had a bigger role in the plot, and I'm just not seeing it.

Largo LaGrande
06-27-2004, 09:39 AM
And I've personally never seen an interview When gilbert has said he visits these forums. He visits the scumm bar site, sure enough, and some other sites, but I've never seen nor heard of him on a forum

I am possitive there was an interview in which he said he visits the Scumm Bar regularly, and sometimes although very rarely after visiting the Scumm Bar he has a look at the posts to see what people say about MI. He said he admires the amount of time and dedication still spent by the MI Fans, and it is satisfying to see Fans still get a lot of enjoyment of the old games.

And my age prediction comes from the way most people act on this site. Granne, and oldie that doesn't come by anymore was in his late 20's and despite his immaturity, he still had a sense of age about him or at least more age than most around here (lets face it, late 20's isn't old). and most other people tend to give a sense of immaturity which basically says 'I'm young, and lovin' it' (not McDonalds referance intended) and most of the time, I'm right in thinking they're about 14-16.

Thats exactly right.

I respect you pirate
:guybrush:

Largo LaGrande
06-27-2004, 10:04 AM
It's an interesting idea and it'd be cool if there were some hidden complexities to MI2 that haven't yet been spotted. Personally, I'd like to say I don't see a massive similarity.

There was a lot cut out of the game because of time, whether that includes Part One I don't know, but if so I suppose it's possible he was a Largo relative who had a bigger role in the plot, and I'm just not seeing it.

You have some really good points we think very much alike,
I am certain there are some hidden complexities to MI2, if only they released a Directors Cut of MI2 im possitive there was more to it and personally i belive they did cut the game especially Part 1. I personally see an uncanny simularity between Largo and the Woodsmith. My theory was he was Largo or Marco Largo LaGrande or a reletive because when you dig up Marco Largo LaGrandes bones its says " Marco Largo LaGrande hell on sea or sand the good news is hes dead the bad news is he breed. And I also thought the Woodsmith was actually Largo wearing a pair of the hand made pegs he makes in his shop or Marco Largo LaGrande or reletive.


:monkey4: :monkey4: :monkey4: :sweating:

Captain Gonzo
06-28-2004, 06:57 PM
It's very unlikely they'd do a 'Director's Cut' of the actual game with added bits, but personally I'd be very interested in what was cut out of the story. It's just my favourite story ever told in an adventure game and I'd be fascinated as to what else was originally in it.

There was an interview with Gilbert where I think he mentioned some details about a long section he cut out of one of the games.

When it comes to releasing the MI games to be compatible with later operating systems, perhaps they can pad out the package with some cool extra features, a 'Collectors' Edition' sort of thing. I'd love to see stuff like production notes of early ideas, early sketches, and finished artwork in full quality (as we saw on the 20th anniversary site with the Map, Peninsula, and House of MOJO scans). Just as comprehensive a document of the games as possible. They could include the Sam 'N' Max comics, reviews from the time, press campaigns, etc. too.

I'm just rambling on about very unlikely things now though... :)

Skinkie
06-29-2004, 01:35 AM
Well correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he originally only write the story to be one game. So therefore the huge part cut was from Monkey Island I. THat part is called MI2.

Captain Gonzo
06-29-2004, 08:57 AM
You might be right about that (I can't remember) but even so there was definitely some stuff cut from MI2. All I could find was this from Amiga Mania:

Mike: Were you concerned with the size of MI2? And if you think CD ROM is coming real soon as the standard.

Ron/Lucasfilm: Yes, I was concerned about the size of the game, but not nearly as much as our accountants were! I had to cut out 5 very large scenes from the game to get it to fit on 6 disks.

I swear I've read an interview where he mentions some specifics of 'deleted scenes', either from SoMI or MI2. I have a hunch it might have been stuff towards the end of SoMI he talked about.

Largo LaGrande
06-29-2004, 12:12 PM
Captain Gonzo

There was an interview with Gilbert where I think he mentioned some details about a long section he cut out of one of the games.

Yes your right I remember.

When it comes to releasing the MI games to be compatible with later operating systems, perhaps they can pad out the package with some cool extra features, a 'Collectors' Edition' sort of thing. I'd love to see stuff like production notes of early ideas, early sketches, and finished artwork in full quality (as we saw on the 20th anniversary site with the Map, Peninsula, and House of MOJO scans). Just as comprehensive a document of the games as possible. They could include the Sam 'N' Max comics, reviews from the time, press campaigns, etc. too.

That would be great if they could release the MI2 Collcetors Edition with all them goodies. The last time remember goodies being included with a MI game was Monkeys Island 2 on the Amiga when it was first released they gave away a free Monkeys Island hat, tea Shirt, poster chocolate money, and a pretend bottle of grog but i dont think it was Lucasarts idea it was the shop I got it from.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike: Were you concerned with the size of MI2? And if you think CD ROM is coming real soon as the standard.

Ron/Lucasfilm: Yes, I was concerned about the size of the game, but not nearly as much as our accountants were! I had to cut out 5 very large scenes from the game to get it to fit on 6 disks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I swear I've read an interview where he mentions some specifics of 'deleted scenes', either from SoMI or MI2. I have a hunch it might have been stuff towards the end of SoMI he talked about


I remember that very interview where he did mention some specifics of 'deleted scenes from MI2 I am sure it was MI2. I remember reading about it in one of my Amiga Magazines at the time as well as the article in Amiga Mania. I am certain that at least one of them deleted sceans were from "Part 1 The Largo Embargo". And I would love to see what they were.

I respect You Piarate

:monkey4: :monkey4: :monkey4: :sweating:

Dr Edison 007
06-30-2004, 07:46 AM
Didn't Ron destroy the deleted scenes so no one could release a "Director's Cut", sounds like Kubrick to me.

Largo LaGrande
06-30-2004, 12:17 PM
I remember at the time there was a rumour about him destroying the deleted scenes. But I donít recall Ron Gilbert actually saying he had deleted them. I donít think he would have deleted them because he had probably worked hard and spent many hours of his time creating them, I bet Ron or Lucasarts still has them somewhere.

If Ron can confirm he did delete them, MI2 the lost files would have to go down in gaming history. Along with Atari's own mass-destruction. When Atari buried millions of unsold "E.T." cartridges in a New Mexico desert.

Das Mole
06-30-2004, 03:40 PM
Atari buried millions of unsold "E.T." cartridges in a New Mexico desert.

maybe ron gilbert did the same thing...but with the mi2 deleted files. put them on a disk, you know, then buried them...

There was an interview with Gilbert where I think he mentioned some details about a long section he cut out of one of the games.

well, if that's the case, then does anybody know where to find it?

Joshi
06-30-2004, 05:21 PM
Depends on your feeling of it all. I spent a good year on a piece of IT coursework adn now that it's handed in, I'm considering deleting all efforts of it (that's about 100mb's worth of work there) because I didn't enjoy it and it's just taking up space now. The actual only reason I haven't deleted it yet is because 1) I may yet find a use/need for it and 2) If it's any good (depending on what grade I'll get), I'll burn it onto a CD and sell it to people a year below me for them to use as their own coursework.

But anyway, back on topic. Because of copywright laws and so on, Lucasarts probably held the rights to al deleted scenes and therefore would have taken it off of him, or made him destory them.

Of course this is all computer talk, and with a computer, you can usually copy stuff. At a guess, I'd say he's kept the scenes in secret somewhere in storage, if only to have them and also know that he himself holds the holy grail of gaming history.

Who knows...
It would be nice to know if they at least existed, even if we couldn't see them or know what they were about.

Captain Gonzo
07-01-2004, 03:54 AM
I did a bit more scouring The SCUMM Bar and found a tidbit from a pre-MI2 interview, and it's Ron talking about when he was putting together the 'rough cut' of the game, at which point he chopped and changed a few things.

Q. Once the budgets and schedules are done, you can begin programming at last. But Monkey Island is an enormous, complex game. Where do you start?

A. Our first goal was to get a crude version of the game together as fast as we could. That means a lot of the animation was missing, the rooms were just sketched in , the puzzles were wired in as quickly as possible.

It took about three months to get a primitive version of Monkey Island that was playable from beginning to end. It was like having a rough cut of a movie. We could identify a lot of weak spots -- we cut out a whole bunch of the game at one point because it just didn't flow well, and we added stuff where the game wasn't interesting enough.

Q. For example?

A. Before you can recruit one character named Meathook, he demands that you prove your bravery. You had to accomplish three things. But it slowed down the flow of the game too much, so we cut out two of them. For our story, one was enough. We added some things, too. We realised that once you got to Monkey Island, the game became kind of slow. The reason was simply that there weren't a lot of people on Monkey Island to interact with -- logically enough, since it's supposed to be a deserted island. So we added a shipwrecked character on the island, and that gives you somebody to talk with. And as you piece together the story of what's been happening on Monkey Island, you discover that he's a very important part of that story.

I'm not quite satisfied that this is what I remember reading, but there's an example of a 'cut' from SoMI.

Joshi
07-01-2004, 03:32 PM
I remember reading that, but the vibe I got from that was that the stuff they took out either detered flow or was just crap, and either way, I doubt any of that stuff was put into MI2.

Largo LaGrande
07-02-2004, 08:48 AM
But anyway, back on topic. Because of copywright laws and so on, Lucasarts probably held the rights to al deleted scenes and therefore would have taken it off of him, or made him destory them.

That what I thought but I think Ron Gilbert didnít delete them didnít give them to lucasarts and still has them.

My reason like you Joshi I have done numerous pieces of coursework, which I hated, didnít enjoy doing and then destroyed them despite spending a lot of time working on them.

The question we all must ask ourselves is. " What if w were Ron Gilbert What would we do"?. Here is my answer, if I was Programming for MI2 as a fan I would enjoy it and anything I created I would be very proud off even the parts cut out of MI2 and I wouldnít dream of deleting anything including Scenes story ideas that will not be included.

Of course this is all computer talk, and with a computer, you can usually copy stuff. At a guess, I'd say he's kept the scenes in secret somewhere in storage, if only to have them and also know that he himself holds the holy grail of gaming history.

I think thatís exactly correct I bet he still has them in storage at his home for sentimental reasons or even in case he wanted to use them to remake MI2

Who knows... It would be nice to know if they at least existed, even if we couldn't see them or know what they were about.

Lets just hope one day he will tell us they still exist and what they were maybe even in this section I would also like to here if he has any plans to remake MI2.

I did a bit more scouring The SCUMM Bar and found a tidbit from a pre-MI2 interview, and it's Ron talking about when he was putting together the 'rough cut' of the game, at which point he chopped and changed a few things.

Thanks Captain Gonzo I read that interview it brought back some MI memories. I remember reading about it and I bet there were huge amounts removed from MI1 and MI2. And I would be surprised if some of the parts removed from MI1 were linked in some way to the parts they removed from MI2.

:guybrush:

Joshi
07-02-2004, 10:57 AM
Not gonna happen anytime soon. LEC still has the rights to monkey island, and as long as CMI and EMI are still selling, they're not gonna give them up. In order for Gilbert toremake MI2, he'd need to buy the rights off them, and his companies are exactly thriving. He sdid say in an interview that one day he would like to buy the rights back and make his version of MI3, but as far as I can see, it won't happen any time soon.

Largo LaGrande
07-03-2004, 07:12 AM
I hope Ron Gilbert does eventually buy back the rights to Monkeys Island and make his own version of MI3 and continue the Series the way he wanted becasue unlike Lucasarts he really cares about Monkeys Island and what the fans of it want, Lucasarts just want to make money out of it. Lets hope Ron Gilbert gets enougth money together to buy the rights back, maybe he has a plan B for getting the rights back he may even decided to sue them instead. Either way I just hope it happens and soon.
:guybrush:

Joshi
07-03-2004, 05:55 PM
sue them for what exactly?

Largo LaGrande
07-03-2004, 09:32 PM
Hes the creator of Monkeys Island surely he can think of something.

Joshi
07-04-2004, 03:18 PM
Doubt it, by working for Lucasarts and allowing them to publish both games, LEC owns all rights to Monkey Island and are therfore free to do whatever the hell they want with it without fear of getting sued by anyone, including Gilbert, despite him creating it as he signed a contract saying it was theirs.

Largo LaGrande
07-05-2004, 10:45 AM
Lets just hope Ron Gilbert finds enougth money to buy the rights to Monkeys Island back one day, or Lucasarts rehire him and his team to work on the Monkeys Island series.

:guybrush:

Skinkie
07-05-2004, 12:10 PM
They wouldn't do that, as this is not the proper time to release an adventure game.

Joshi
07-06-2004, 09:15 AM
Plus I doubt Gilbert would come back if asked for Monkey Island, it may be been his greatest work, but he has done a lot more and people like to move on.

rundll32.exe
07-07-2004, 03:28 AM
Well, the resolution of MI2 is only 320x200, I think, so when you only have so many pixels with which to draw a face, there are only so many different faces you can draw and the possibility that two will appear very similar is high. With this knowledge, it seems that this similarity was nothing more than a simple coincidence.

Largo LaGrande
07-07-2004, 12:56 PM
In MI2 only 2 characters look very much a like, Largo and The Woodsmith. I understand what your trying to say about lack of pixels to create characters with that very true, as for there been only so many different faces, Chracters you can draw that is down to the skill of the creators and MI, and MI2 team are very talented so i dout this was a problem for them.

I create pixel Characters simular to those In MI2 for fun and I can easily create over 30+ charcters all diffrent looking. Simular games of that time such as Indiana Jones and the fate of atlantis, Curse of Enchantia, The Legend of Kyriandia. They had even more charcters than MI2 none of there characters looked very simular out of all the characters in all them games.

Maybe the similarity beteween Largo and The Woodsmith was nothing more than a coincidence but for the two almost identical characters to feature on the first level of the game you have to say thats a bit strange.

When developing a game you have all the drawings of the levels in storyboard format as well as the drawings for the characters they are all layed out on a wall and usally everybody looks at them with an egales eye to look for any mistakes and bad ideas, Likes and disslikes. You would expect they would of noticed the simularity and changed the hair colour of the woodsmith from black to brown or something to avoid this.

You may be absoloutly right but I would like to think theres something more exciting behind it than just a coincidence.

I Repect you Pirate

:monkey4: :monkey4: :monkey4: :sweating:

Das Mole
07-08-2004, 11:32 AM
maybe when they had all the characters mapped out, nobody really cared. i doubt the whole developing team looked over it to check for goofups, but maybe two or three people. that's not a lot of eyeballs checking the pictures, and they could've just overlooked the similarities, which (in my opinion) were few and far apart.

or, they may have even noticed the similarity if the woodsmith had been shorter at first, so they made him taller so they wouldn't seem so alike. they probably didn't expect someone to think largo was standing on stilts inside his boots...

but, either way, the woodsmith's look could already be the altered appearance in the case that they looked even more alike before. i dunno.

Joshi
07-09-2004, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by rundll32.exe
Well, the resolution of MI2 is only 320x200, I think, so when you only have so many pixels with which to draw a face, there are only so many different faces you can draw and the possibility that two will appear very similar is high. With this knowledge, it seems that this similarity was nothing more than a simple coincidence.

Originally posted by Myself
I don't really know any history behind it, but as a guess, I'd say when creating the sprites, they created the main charcters and then, with the very little pixels that they could use, they created the woodsmith and accidentally made it look somewhat like largo. You may think that's a very low possibiliy, but because of the very few pixels used, it would actually be very easy to do.

Yeah, I thought I'd heard that somewhere in the same thread.

But, honestly, I can actually only see a few very little similarities betwen the two sprites that would come out of the hinder opf only haveing a few pixels and therefore like I said before, iot would be very easiy to have such small similarities. May I add that there were many more than 30 charcters in MI1 anhd 2 and I doubt they wanted their charcters to look like any other sprites in other games back then so they were very limited.

Largo LaGrande
07-13-2004, 06:03 AM
maybe when they had all the characters mapped out, nobody really cared. i doubt the whole developing team looked over it to check for goofups, but maybe two or three people. that's not a lot of eyeballs checking the pictures, and they could've just overlooked the similarities, which (in my opinion) were few and far apart.

What you may think was a simple task of just 2 or 3 people glancing over a story board is quite the opposite in gaming there is no room for mistakes, everything left in a game is there because its meant to be nothing is not due to mistake of laziness.
Unless of cause the games company create bad games.

In the games creating past and present its very team orientated and everyone is involved from the very lowest level to the highest. When the games concept storyboard of ideas, final Characters drawings and levels ect is finished if only 2 or 3 people checked everything lets say the artists they may not notice mistakes or give much negative or positive opinions about there own work. So everyone is involved from the very lowest level to the highest to get their opinions, likes and dislikes, similarities ect and they are taken very seriously. This is not a short glance it usually goes on for quite sometime even days to ensure everything in the game is perfect.

So this is why I doubt it was just a simple mistake if I and many others can see the similarity between the Largo and Woodsmith and start to think its part of a storyline twist they left out. Then surely they also saw the similarities as well and realised that the people who play the game would think it was part of a storyline twist during game play and when they completed it then think it was a storyline twist left out.

:monkey4: :monkey4: :monkey4: :sweating:

Joshi
07-13-2004, 04:17 PM
To be honest, a few small similarities between 2 characters, one of which has a very small part, isn't exactly a huge mistake left in the game, not nearly enough to call it a bad game. Yes, they do have people looking for mistakes called alpha testers, but these are really around to test for bugs in the game and so on.

And yes, during all of production, the team do look for such things as similarities, but you do have to remember what characters are drawn on paper first and then put into the game. The drawings look nothing like the game sprites of course because of the resolution and then the computer arsists try to make the sprites look as much like the drawings as possible. And then yes, they may be compared with each other, but seriously, look at the sprites again,
http://www.milegend.com/characters/images/largo.gif http://www.milegend.com/characters/images/woodsmith.gif

there is really very little similarity, apart from a slightly (and that's ever so slightly) similar face build, the rest is all different and I'm really stuggling to find where you found these similarities, and more importantly, you ahve to think about this from a game designers point of view, if I saw these two together during production, I'd probably think to myself "Hmm, very small similarity in the face, but then I've seen that expression all over the place in these sprites, people won't notice (and after browsing these boards for more than 2 years, this is the first time I've seen this claim, so it's ben a while since the games release), they're never together in the game, and plus, this woodsmith guys only in it for a while anyway. nothing to get worked up about so mucht hat we'd have to spend loads of money and redisign this one charcters to look slightly more different from one of our main charcters.

i'm not saying your theory is wrong, all i'm saying is that it's a possibility, and my theroy is also a possibility, and technically, a much bigger one than you made it out to be.

Das Mole
07-13-2004, 10:07 PM
well, i'm making a computer game as well, we've got a team working on it and we're going to sell the idea to a big company. quite honestly, not everybody looks over every little thing. in fact, i've overlooked a few things myself and then someone else brought it up and i thought "yeah, well...it's not that big a deal". i doubt they had everyone on their production crew go over all the little details, especially when it was in a completely different department. i mean, have you seen the credits? there are so many people working on it, i don't think every single one of them would take the time to look over all the characters.

but, that's just what i think. maybe i'm wrong.

Dr Edison 007
07-14-2004, 08:50 AM
Hey Largo, how can you say that you are not obsessed with Largo LaGrande after you speak like this?

Nearly everything you post is about him.

Joshi
07-14-2004, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by Das Mole
well, i'm making a computer game as well, we've got a team working on it and we're going to sell the idea to a big company. quite honestly, not everybody looks over every little thing. in fact, i've overlooked a few things myself and then someone else brought it up and i thought "yeah, well...it's not that big a deal". i doubt they had everyone on their production crew go over all the little details, especially when it was in a completely different department. i mean, have you seen the credits? there are so many people working on it, i don't think every single one of them would take the time to look over all the characters.

but, that's just what i think. maybe i'm wrong.

Well, i think it's slightly different considering you're making a fan game, or non profit, no budget game, as apose to the people at LA who're getting paid considerable amounts to make a good game and make sure it's as flawless as Largo said.

Largo LaGrande
07-15-2004, 02:43 PM
Joshi
At the end of the day its a matter of opinion this area is to discover if there was a hidden meaning to Woodsmith and largo looking so much alike. I am not going to perswade you guys to agree with me thats whats good about this, were getting a good ballance of diffrent opinions. My theory is theres was more to it and alot of people i know also have the same theory.

Das Mole

I doubt they had everyone on their production crew go over all the little details, especially when it was in a completely different department. i mean, have you seen the credits? there are so many people working on it, i don't think every single one of them would take the time to look over all the characters.

Monkeys Island 1 or 2 dosent have a large crew neither did the other companys that made games at that time. So everybody really did get very involved. Making games know is still very much the same but due to the fact games have become more advanced a huge chunk of the crew on all games are programers designers artists ect those people would still check their own work themselfs and they will still get a good percentage of every one else to give their opinion its essential.
If you dont belive me then i guess i would have to show you round a proffessional studio one day to enlighten you.

Dr Edison 007
Does it really matter if i talk about certain subjects more that other thats my choice isnt it. And I am not Largo obsessed thats just a user name thats all Largo is just a character in Monkeys Island like all the others. If i called myself Gybrush Threepwood, LeChuck or wally and i was talking about them you would probably say exactly the same thing. I would happily change my name to something else but i dont see why i should just to prove im not Largo obsessed. I could say the same thing about you i could say your Manic Mansion Obsessed your called Dr Edison and you look like just him. Excuse me if i sound a bit snappy i dont mean to but i really cant see your point.

Joshi
07-15-2004, 03:53 PM
All I'm saying is that my version seems a bit more plausible when you think about it.

But if you're stuck on yours, then it's your right to think that way.

Skinkie
07-16-2004, 12:40 AM
I could say the same thing about you i could say your Manic Mansion Obsessed your called Dr Edison and you look like just him.

Actually I believe that picture is of Larry David, not Dr. Edison.

Das Mole
07-16-2004, 04:44 PM
Monkeys Island 1 or 2 dosent have a large crew neither did the other companys that made games at that time.

did you work on this team? do you know exactly how many people worked on it?

If you dont belive me then i guess i would have to show you round a proffessional studio one day to enlighten you.

why, do you work in a professional studio?

Largo LaGrande
07-17-2004, 06:08 AM
Joshi

All I'm saying is that my version seems a bit more plausible when you think about it.

But if you're stuck on yours, then it's your right to think that way

Its your option to think your theory is more plausible but I know many people that would disagree and have the same theory as myself either way we still havenít found the truth and it wont end untill then.

Skinkie

Actually I believe that picture is of Larry David, not Dr. Edison

I love Manic Mansion its a great game I disagree he looks exactly like Dr Edison, Larry David is a genius I think "Seinfeld" is fantastic although I wouldnít say he looked like him Larry looks allot younger. I still think he looks just like Dr Edison.

http://members.fortunecity.com/harang/describe.html

Das Mole

did you work on this team? do you know exactly how many people worked on it?

No it says on the credits

why, do you work in a professional studio?

:guybrush: