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RpTheHotrod
07-13-2004, 11:59 PM
Someone in Arizona wrote this.





"Now I sit me down in school
Where praying is against the rule
For this great nation under God
Finds mention of Him very odd.

If Scripture now the class recites,
It violates the Bill of Rights.
And anytime my head I bow
Becomes a Federal matter now.

Our hair can be purple, orange or green,
That's no offense; it's a freedom scene.
The law is specific, the law is precise.
Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.

For praying in a public hall
Might offend someone with no faith at all.
In silence alone we must meditate,
God's name is prohibited by the state.

We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,
And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks.
They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.
To quote the Good Book makes me liable.

We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,
And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.
It's "inappropriate" to teach right from wrong,
We're taught that such "judgments" do not belong.

We can get our condoms and birth controls,
Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.
But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,
No word of God must reach this crowd.

It's scary here I must confess,
When chaos reigns the school's a mess.
So, Lord, this silent plea I make:
Should I be shot; My soul please take!

Amen"

Tyrion
07-14-2004, 12:12 AM
Arizona is wierd then, I've never had a problem with kids in prayer here.


We can get our condoms and birth controls,
Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.
But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,
No word of God must reach this crowd.


I don't think studying the Bible is against the law, it's when it's taught in school...much as it would be if Witchcraft was taught. Although the author's lack of respect for other cultures discredits his point.

RpTheHotrod
07-14-2004, 12:14 AM
When I was in school, I got reported to the office for merely having a Bible in my posession at school....and that was....like...maybe more than 10 years ago?

I'm 20 now.

and he probably means...if such "evil" things (satanic) stuff is allowed, then why isn't a good thing like the Bible allowed? :p

Troopr-Undr-Fir
07-14-2004, 12:26 AM
Well I agree with you for the most part. It is silly that they have to take away something that helps some.

But there entails the indifference with what you are questioning...it is only for some. Not everyone is the same.

Even though myslef I don't have a problem with it. Hell I even go to church when something that hurts me inside happens. Makes me feel better. But it is not for everyone. And if you are in school where there are so many diverse "clicks", you are bound to find someone who dissaproves.


Although I do remember the Cristian Atheletes club.

My friends were in that.

So peeple will find a way.

EDIT: Now that I think of it, the club was after school. So I guess that has to do with it :/

Tyrion
07-14-2004, 01:01 AM
Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
and he probably means...if such "evil" things (satanic) stuff is allowed, then why isn't a good thing like the Bible allowed? :p

On the other hand, what happens if people that worship such "evil" things calls the Bible evil too? That's the reason why the Bible and other religious icons aren't allowed at school, since it's too easy for those conflicts of beliefs to turn into violence.

TiE23
07-14-2004, 02:35 AM
http://img40.photobucket.com/albums/v123/Tie23/forums/aaadsssfff.jpg

MeH....

TiE

RpTheHotrod
07-14-2004, 05:18 AM
A "belief" of killing people and blood sacrifices calling a belief of good and honesty evil?

:p

Tyrion
07-14-2004, 05:23 AM
Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
A "belief" of killing people and blood sacrifices calling a belief of good and honesty evil?

:p

I meant the "Totem pole" from the poem which repesented the Indian culture and religion, you dolt. :p

By the way, I don't neccessarily disagree that the Bible is bad for it's knowledge, just proving a point which I should probably keep in where the sun doesn't shine...
:p

Sabretooth
07-14-2004, 07:17 AM
Weird.

CREEPY.

Gothic?

obi
07-14-2004, 07:53 AM
"Dear God,

Why do you allow such violence in our schools? Why do you let kids shoot each other in our schools?

Love,

Concerned Student."


"Dear Concerned Student,

Because I am not allowed in the schools.


Love,

God"


I read that on a T-shirt once. It brings up a good point. Here's one thing I don't get:

Many Atheists don't approve of "God" being in the pledge of allegance, yet I hear them say "God Dernit" (so to speak) all the time. If you don't believe that God should be mentioned, don't say that either!

Ahem.


And if people are true christians, Tyrion, then they would have read the part in the Bible that says "Love thy neighbor" and "thou shalt not kill" and "Do unto others" etc. Many people miss that part. ;)

Tyrion
07-14-2004, 09:22 AM
I read that on a T-shirt once. It brings up a good point. Here's one thing I don't get:

Many Atheists don't approve of "God" being in the pledge of allegance, yet I hear them say "God Dernit" (so to speak) all the time. If you don't believe that God should be mentioned, don't say that either!

Ahem.

It's a figure of speech. Kinda like saying "Holy crap!". Do I believe there's a pile of crap somewhere that is holy? No. :p

And if people are true christians, Tyrion, then they would have read the part in the Bible that says "Love thy neighbor" and "thou shalt not kill" and "Do unto others" etc. Many people miss that part. ;)

Which is my point. I wouldn't mind Christian zealots in the schools so I can beat them up into bloody pulps without fear of boldily harm to one's self. But there's too many "christians" that believe it's cool to beat up Muslims or Satanists or Hindus...it'd open up a can of worms that would be a mess to clean up.

Yes, I'm kidding about the first part...:p

toms
07-14-2004, 10:13 AM
you can just imagine the geeky-wannabe-young republican with no mates sitting there writing that in the hopes of getting a bit of publicity in the local paper (after sending it in himself i expect...)

I can't believe that there are many people in america foolish enough to not manage to grasp the reason for trying to seperate religion from government or education. If there are then they just need to look at many other countries in the world (including the middle east) with religious governments and education systems. Or those scenes of rioting protestors and terrified kids trying to get to school in northern ireland a year or so ago. Talk about intentionally blinding yourself...

Now if they would just try to get corporate sponsorship out of schools too then we might have a chance....

We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks, And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks. They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible. To quote the Good Book makes me liable. We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen, And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King. It's "inappropriate" to teach right from wrong, We're taught that such "judgments" do not belong. We can get our condoms and birth controls,
Talk about one of the most unchristian paraghaphs ever written...

Don't US schools finish at like 2pm anyway? why not just go to an external religious club if that is your bag?
baby.

Neverhoodian
07-14-2004, 02:29 PM
Being a Christian myself, I really don't have much of a problem with limiting religious practices in public schools. It goes back to the separation of Church and State, one of the factors that has helped make America the strong republic that it is. After all, Christianity is by no means the only religion out there.

Think about it. If only Christians were allowed time to pray and read the Bible in school, it would be discriminatory against other faiths. Schools would have to give every religion, be it Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Wiccan, etc. time to pray/chant/meditate. Heck, some atheists might even want to be given time to "not believe." Since some faiths have customs/beliefs that may offend other religions, it would only create tension and divide the student body.

The fact of the matter is that schools were built to teach students valuable knowledge and practical skills, NOT to be a center for spiritual fulfillment. That's what churches are for. If people want to pray, they can do it on their own free time.

My high school had a pretty good way of dealing with this. They didn't care if you wanted to practice your faith as long as it wasn't during class time. Some of my teachers brought up such religious figures as Jesus and Mohammed during class discussions about human behavior. They wanted to point out that they had some valid points concerning how we should treat others ("thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself"). They even allowed the Jesus Club, a Christian school club, to have service every Wednesday during lunch. They just never tried to convert anyone to anything, as it is not their job to do so.

I guess the important thing to keep in mind is that public schools aren't trying to abolish faith. They're merely trying to ensure that it stays a learning environment.

Rad Blackrose
07-14-2004, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by obi-wan13
[BI read that on a T-shirt once. It brings up a good point. Here's one thing I don't get:

Many Atheists don't approve of "God" being in the pledge of allegance, yet I hear them say "God Dernit" (so to speak) all the time. If you don't believe that God should be mentioned, don't say that either!

Ahem. [/B]

Tyrion said it's a figure of speech, when it is in fact used to put an emphasis on the word "dammit!"

RpTheHotrod
07-14-2004, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by Neverhoodian
Being a Christian myself, I really don't have much of a problem with limiting religious practices in public schools. It goes back to the separation of Church and State, one of the factors that has helped make America the strong republic that it is. After all, Christianity is by no means the only religion out there.

Think about it. If only Christians were allowed time to pray and read the Bible in school, it would be discriminatory against other faiths. Schools would have to give every religion, be it Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Wiccan, etc. time to pray/chant/meditate. Heck, some atheists might even want to be given time to "not believe." Since some faiths have customs/beliefs that may offend other religions, it would only create tension and divide the student body.

The fact of the matter is that schools were built to teach students valuable knowledge and practical skills, NOT to be a center for spiritual fulfillment. That's what churches are for. If people want to pray, they can do it on their own free time.

My high school had a pretty good way of dealing with this. They didn't care if you wanted to practice your faith as long as it wasn't during class time. Some of my teachers brought up such religious figures as Jesus and Mohammed during class discussions about human behavior. They wanted to point out that they had some valid points concerning how we should treat others ("thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself"). They even allowed the Jesus Club, a Christian school club, to have service every Wednesday during lunch. They just never tried to convert anyone to anything, as it is not their job to do so.

I guess the important thing to keep in mind is that public schools aren't trying to abolish faith. They're merely trying to ensure that it stays a learning environment.

Other religions are allowed.....at least where I live. Just Christianity is banned.

legameboy
07-14-2004, 06:35 PM
I thought that was a really great poem.

In my high school, every religon is allowed except Christianity.

*sigh*

It makes me sad, really.

TiE23
07-14-2004, 08:21 PM
Do Catholics count? :p

Click Here (http://www.freewebtown.com/TiE)

TiE

Alegis
07-14-2004, 09:06 PM
finally they're making progress. It was almost gone in france in the revolution...only what could be proven was to be believed

Jesus was just the first houdini...id want a tshirt saying that
and millions followed like chicken

that silly jesus...

christianity not allowed? You mean you get interrogated "Are you Christian?" and if yes, banned from the school?

fire in the disco

Neverhoodian
07-15-2004, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by Alegis Gensan
Other religions are allowed.....at least where I live. Just Christianity is banned.

Oh. That puts things in a little different light.

It's probably because Christianity is the most prevalent religion in the United States. Christianity, like it or not, is often the religion that gets the most flak because of its prevalence. Given the changing demographics in the country, however, people might start raising a fuss about other religions. Only time will tell.

RoxStar
07-15-2004, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
When I was in school, I got reported to the office for merely having a Bible in my posession at school....and that was....like...maybe more than 10 years ago?

I'm 20 now.

and he probably means...if such "evil" things (satanic) stuff is allowed, then why isn't a good thing like the Bible allowed? :p

I've gotten slapped by one of those mini bibles by a christian fannatic before. It stung like hell.

RpTheHotrod
07-15-2004, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by RoxStar
I've gotten slapped by one of those mini bibles by a christian fannatic before. It stung like hell.

The Word can have a profound impact on one's life. ;)

RoxStar
07-16-2004, 12:58 AM
It did too. I don't mess around with him anymore :xp:

It was my friend so it doesn't matter.

Kale Jerre
07-17-2004, 07:26 AM
Originally posted by Neverhoodian
Christianity, like it or not, is often the religion that gets the most flak because of its prevalence.

Exactly. When was the last time a Taoist, 'Satanist' or Wiccan appeared on TV like Oral Roberts (or his many clones) and asked for $2 million or his/her deity, etc. would call him/her home/to Hell, etc.?

Let's be honest here--Christian religions are very keen on conversion. A school should be a seat of learning, not conversion.

El Sitherino
07-17-2004, 08:24 AM
[unintelligent comment] that "pledge" is crap.[/unintelligent comment]

Crow_Nest
07-17-2004, 08:52 AM
Uh weird pledge. My cousin's school's song is even weirder, there are some parts in the song which uses the phrase "we are bright and gay" :eek:

Astrotoy7
07-17-2004, 12:03 PM
I went to what was technically an anglican church school...though I'd say over 50% of the kids at my high school came from catholic or orthodox christian families, with a sizeable number of islamic and buddhist students as well. We had 'religious instruction'(RI) from yrs 7-9. I really enjoyed this class, and had an essay published in a state student journal comparing my experiences growing up in an islamic community, to going to school and having many friends from a catholic/christian heritage. I was glad the school respected our beliefs and never expected us to attend church service days, though many of us went because it meant we spent the day with the girls, from the girls schools affiliated with us(my high school was 'boyz only' for four years :( ) ....

I was always very grateful I never had any form of religion 'rammed down my throat', neither by my parents, nor by my school. I have mentioned before, I consider myself Islamic by heritage moreso by practise, and this is something I think about often...some may argue it is inappropriate, but it is my decision to make.

Our RI teacher was a reverend, and I enjoyed discussing the origins and commonalities of the 'persian' religions with him, namely christianity, islam and judaism.... So I moreso consider the bible, the koran and the torah for that matter, as historical textbooks. They give an insight into belief systems that were generated millenia ago. Im not sure if this will make some people angry(be they christian, moslem or jew) - this is not my intention, but it is the only view of this issue I am comfortable with at this point in life....

*rubs eyes - is this the senate or the swamp* :p

mtfbwya

SkinWalker
07-18-2004, 04:42 PM
Here it is again with all the religious nonsense taken out.

"Now I sit me down in school
Where praying is against the rule
For this great nation

It violates the Bill of Rights.
And anytime my head I bow
Japanese I look like now.

Our hair can be purple, orange or green,
That's no offense; it's a freedom scene.
The law is specific, the law is precise.

In silence alone

We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,
And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks.
They've outlawed guns.

We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,
And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.

We can get our condoms and birth controls,
Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.

It's scary here I must confess,
When chaos reigns the school's a mess.
So, this silent plea I make:
Should I be shot;

the end"

I'm being sarcastic and funny (there's a difference?) to be sure.... but It's just simpler to take out the two words ("under god") that weren't originally a part of the pledge and let school children decide their faiths or lack thereof themselves.

And to point out a common fallacy among the so-called religious right: christianity and/or religion is not banned from public schools. What is banned, and rightfully so, is the school's ability to impose religion or religious practice upon students.

Captain Wilson
07-18-2004, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by SkinWalker What is banned, and rightfully so, is the school's ability to impose religion or religious practice upon students. [/B]

Well said

Astrotoy7
07-18-2004, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by SkinWalker

....What is banned, and rightfully so, is the school's ability to impose religion or religious practice upon students.

That I wholeheartedly agree with, and I am glad that although I am from a muslim family and went to an anglican school religion was more about history and learning, than an imposition of faith, for which I am very grateful....

mtfbwya

RpTheHotrod
07-18-2004, 05:28 PM
In our schools, you can't even pray.

What is banned is far more than school-side.

SkinWalker
07-18-2004, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
In our schools, you can't even pray.

What is banned is far more than school-side.

Untrue. You just cannot organize a prayer session. I'd be willing to bet that there are many superstitious students that pray before every test. In fact, in the city I worked in until my company moved (Mesquite, Texas), I've heard anecdotal accounts of a High School coach that led his players in prayer before every game.

That guy should be fired... but the players should feel free to engage in whatever magical thinking they believe will assist their game.

RoxStar
07-18-2004, 11:16 PM
Bull. My school has a "Fellowship of Christian Students club" and yes it is a public school.

El Sitherino
07-18-2004, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by RoxStar
Bull. My school has a "Fellowship of Christian Students club" and yes it is a public school. but that is held after school, correct?

RpTheHotrod
07-19-2004, 12:44 AM
As I said, I was turned in for merely having a Bible in my possession. It's more true than you can imagine.


BTW...I live in Mesquite, TX.

o_O

SkinWalker
07-19-2004, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by RoxStar
Bull. My school has a "Fellowship of Christian Students club" and yes it is a public school.

My point exactly. Thank you. Membership is, of course, voluntary.

There you have it. A prime example that prayer is allowed in schools, although I'm only assuming that a bunch of christians will pray at their club meetings. That or they stand around measuring each others bibles. Either way, it's a religious organization that isn't forced upon the rest of the students and isn't harassed by the so-called secular government.

Organizations like this should be encouraged and similar organizations should be allowed to develop to service significant populations of other ethnic and religious groups: American Indian, Muslim, Hindi, Wiccan, Buddhist, humanists, etc.

Astrotoy7
07-19-2004, 02:00 AM
Originally posted by RoxStar
Bull. My school has a "Fellowship of Christian Students club" and yes it is a public school.

Cool...Fellowship.... like Frodo n stuff

*sorry, ill be leaving now*

mtfbwya

El Sitherino
07-19-2004, 02:33 AM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
Cool...Fellowship.... like Frodo n stuff
*giggles*

ET Warrior
07-19-2004, 02:34 AM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
Cool...Fellowship.... like Frodo n stuff

:lol: That made me giggle in my seat. :D

Kain
07-19-2004, 03:52 AM
Sounds like another Christian cry-baby fest. I have a teacher who's alot like the Christian masses, if you disagree you gotta go. He was a dick, and his name was Dick(Richard).

Now that whole poem offended me. Why? you may ask. 'Oh, its Kain. He's a anti-Christian facist prick who hates organized religion and all the members of said religions'. Bull****. It offended me because my sophomore year of highschool (2000-2001 school year), a ban was put on 'band shirts(rock bands) and gang related memorbilia'. What the **** does that hafta do with ANYTHING Kain?! you ask yourself. Bloodz use a red 5 point star. 5 pointed star = pentagram = Wiccan, which at the time I was a pratictioner of. So I wore my pentagram. And I got suspended, EVEN THOUGH I told my CHRISTIAN dean that it wasn't gang related, it was a symbol of strength and protection from MY RELIGION! And I still got suspended. Of course, it was repealed a day later when I sent a friend to school with a signed document stating if I wasn't allowed back in school that I would sue the board and the dean and the teacher who sent me to the dean, but thats a different story. Now, I'm not allowed to where my necklace, and I asked if Jews could where their Star of David, at which point my teacher DODGED THE ****ING QUESTION!! Then when I told my dean that most gang members where crosses because they are 'Christians', he changed the subject and wanted to suspend me for my KoRn shirt that I refused to take off.

Besides, SkinWalker's right. Its illegal to force prayer, not to engage in it.

And its illegal because they're PUBLIC SCHOOLS with all kindsa different religions. Seriously, how would you feel if you were Jewish and where forced to recite a prayer thanking Jesus for the glorious day, and if you refused, you faced expulsion.

So I say screw organized religion and anyone who wants to force their religion on others.

Oppresive facism.

And no, I don't mean to offend anyone here.


Expand your Imagi-Nation

TiE23
07-19-2004, 03:58 AM
Religion sucks, faith is good.

*runs*

I just find religion a way to keep us togethger, and tear us apart. :-/

TiE