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young Obi-Wan
07-15-2004, 07:07 AM
hi star wars fans...

I'm a bit confused.
I have read several star wars books.
it came to me that a man called Bevel Lemelisk and his partner Qwi Xux have developed the Death Star, at a time where the emperor was already reigning the empire.

but huh? what did we see in Episode 2?
years before the Empire was founded, they already had plans of the Death Star on Geonosis, brought to Sidious by Dooku.
wtf... actually it was Lemelisk who presented him his plans of the Death Star...

so... can anyone explain this error plz?
Did George Lucas not think of all the EU books when makign Episode 2???

PR-0927
07-15-2004, 12:19 PM
Heh, Sienar (makes TIE's) designed it. Dooku got ahold of it in Episode II from Tarkin (read Rogue Planet).

Qui Xux actually made it, and fixed it, getting it to actually work. They needed someone to actually do this stuff.

:fett:

ET Warrior
07-15-2004, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by young Obi-Wan
so... can anyone explain this error plz?
Did George Lucas not think of all the EU books when makign Episode 2???

George Lucas doesn't give a damn about the EU books when he makes his movies. They are secondary stories, and if he wants to tell it a different way then he gets to do what he wants because Star Wars is his.

The deathstar plans were given to Count Dooku on Geonosis by Poggle the Lesser.

Darth Talliusc
07-15-2004, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by ET Warrior
George Lucas doesn't give a damn about the EU books when he makes his movies. They are secondary stories, and if he wants to tell it a different way then he gets to do what he wants because Star Wars is his.

The deathstar plans were given to Count Dooku on Geonosis by Poggle the Lesser.

people who hate the EU shouldnt be allowed in here. tsk tsk. maybe we could institute a waiver that every would have to sign (errr checkmark?) before entering this board saying that they wont badmouth the EU at all while here or make any derogatory coments towards it.

theres no reason that these two stories cant coexist. is there no way that qwi xux, bevel lemelisk or whoever couldve given the plans to poggle to give to dooku?

and yeah GL does care about the EU when making his movies. but hes not ruled by it. theres a very big difference between the two. why else would he use EU characters, objects, species etc in his movies?

edit: ok after doing some checking the stories cant coexist PERFECTLY. but just make a compromise or two and it fits together fine. not all EU blends well with the movies, just gotta live with it.

ET Warrior
07-16-2004, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Darth Talliusc
and yeah GL does care about the EU when making his movies. but hes not ruled by it. theres a very big difference between the two. why else would he use EU characters, objects, species etc in his movies?

Using some of it in his movies doesn't mean he cares about it in general. It means sometimes he finds things that he likes and will use them, but if he doesn't like it he's going to ignore it completely.

fuzzyfreaker
07-16-2004, 08:52 PM
I believe that Bevel's part in it was designing the interior, the quarters, detention areas, that sort of thing. We just saw a holo-view of the exterior in Ep. II so i think the interior wasn't desinged yet. Then Xux just built the Prototype and tested the superlaser out

Cheech Marin
07-16-2004, 09:54 PM
I'm pretty sure Bevel had at least *something* to do with designing the Superlaser. I mean, after the Death Star was destroyed, the Emperor had Darth Vader cut off Bevel's hand. At least, I remember reading that somewhere.

Darth Talliusc
07-16-2004, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by ET Warrior
Using some of it in his movies doesn't mean he cares about it in general. It means sometimes he finds things that he likes and will use them, but if he doesn't like it he's going to ignore it completely.

something tells me that you and i are going to butt heads a fair bit ET. but i respect you nonetheless.

i believe that he does care because otherwise he wouldnt look for inspiration/explanation within the EU. he would just use his own creative devices and not worry about what the other authors say.

its true that anything he doesnt like wont be used, but to say that he doesnt care about the eu at all is a bit much. by using EU stuff hes showing us that hes at least paying attention to part of it.

and to the other ppl in this thread. if you've ever been part of a large production you will know that there are many revisions (especially during the initial design phase) its more then plausible that the death start projection we saw in ep2 had nothing in common with the deathstar of ep4 except the general shape. who did the designing? who was behind it all? minor details that you must call for yourself. as in so much of starwars it comes down to what makes most sense to you.

(for instance some of us think it makes sense that obi-wan put luke at the lars' homestead as bait for vader to kill him. why else use vaders family members? why else allow him to keep the name skywalker and allow him to apply to the imperial academy?)

ET Warrior
07-17-2004, 02:41 AM
Originally posted by Darth Talliusc
something tells me that you and i are going to butt heads a fair bit ET. but i respect you nonetheless.

Seems that our differing stance towards EU will indeed put us at odds ;)

No worries though, I would never look down on somebody just because they are wrong about things :p

I keeeed, I keed

Jan Gaarni
07-17-2004, 12:23 PM
Don't be too confident just yet, ET: ;)

Not only does Lucas show us he accepts the EU (to certain extent of course as we all agree what he doesn't like he won't use), he has also said so
several times up the years.

Here's one quote from the introduction to the 1994 printing of Splinter of the Mind's Eye:

"After Star Wars was released, it became apparent that my story - however many films it took to tell - was only one of thousands that could be told about the characters who inhabit its galaxy. But these were not stories I was destined to tell. Instead they would spring from the imagination of other writers, inspired by the glimpse of a galaxy that Star Wars provided. Today it is an amazing, if unexpected, legacy of Star Wars that so many gifted writers are contributing new stories to the Saga."

As you can see, he does care about the EU, and he conciders it part of the overall Star Wars story.

Here's another, more popular quote from 2002, mostly used by Trekkies especially to disprove that the EU cannot be used in an SW vs ST debate, but also by Star Wars purists to unvalidate the EU sources:

"There's my world, which is the movies, and there's this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe - the licensing world of the books, games and comic books. They don't intrude on my world, which is a select period of time, but they do intrude in between the movies. I don't get too involved in the parallel universe."

The bolded last part usually get ignored by Trekkies and purists because it contradict what they are trying to prove. :p

Another interesting quote, direct from Mr. George Lucas' mouth, from the Episode 3 Set Diary 8-11-2003:

"So how did Anakin get that scar, George?" asks John Knoll

"I don't know. Ask Howard," says George, referring to President of Lucas Licensing Howard Roffman. "That's one of those things that happens in the novels between the movies. I just put it there. He has to explain how it got there. I think Anakin got it slipping in the bathtub, but of course, he's not going to tell anybody that."

What is this?!? Did Mr. George Lucas personally approve an EU book, which will not be canon by the way (just underlining that ;) ), that will explain how Anakin got his scar plus other things leading up to Episode III?!? Yep, you read right. :)


As for who designed the Death Star, this new info gave it a nice twist to it all. For years we've been fed Imperial Propaganda that they were the ones who created the Death Star, when in reality it was initially an alien design. But there's no way the Empire is going to admit that some lower form of being had designed the ultimate object of Imperial power, now, would they. ;) :p

Many has actually claimed they were the creater anyway. Tarkin is one, Blix is another. Most likely both of them worked on it, Blix actually redesigning it in certain areas (if you don't think the Death Star went thru some changes I urge you to re-watch the part where it is shown in AotC again and you'll clearly see it's true. :) ), while Tarkin oversaw it all.
And all most likely approved by the Emperor, but that is just my opinion. :)

Doomie
07-17-2004, 12:53 PM
I always just assumed the geonosians designed it, but then again,it's not really built in their style... I think the superlaser is the geonosian's work.

Jan Gaarni
07-17-2004, 03:59 PM
The general design is by the Geonosians, with the superlaser and everything, but it atleast certain features, such as the antenna's or whatever they are, either was dropped or incorporated into the station. What their purpose was for I don't know.

As for what else might have gone thru a redesign I don't know.

PR-0927
07-17-2004, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by Majin Revan
Heh, Sienar (makes TIE's) designed it. Dooku got ahold of it in Episode II from Tarkin (read Rogue Planet).

Qui Xux actually made it, and fixed it, getting it to actually work. They needed someone to actually do this stuff.

:fett:


There is your answer, I'm quite sure of it.

:fett:

Wraith 8
07-18-2004, 07:59 AM
wow... i love jans explanation. and i think thats the most correct one in here :) its all an imperial LIE... er... genius :p

ET Warrior
07-18-2004, 06:46 PM
Heh, Sienar (makes TIE's) designed it. Dooku got ahold of it in Episode II from Tarkin (read Rogue Planet).

But Dooku got in in Episode II from Poggle the Lesser. We SAW Poggle give it to Dooku.

Lynk Former
07-18-2004, 06:53 PM
It could've been a joint operation y'know. The Geonosians would've made the superweapon systems of the Death Star and the Imperials would've fitted it into their own technology and enhanced it.

Jan Gaarni
07-19-2004, 05:06 AM
Originally posted by ET Warrior
But Dooku got in in Episode II from Poggle the Lesser. We SAW Poggle give it to Dooku.
To be truly technical, like with Boba Fett, we never saw them design it, just that they had it, we are only assuming they did. ;)

Astrotoy7
07-19-2004, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by ET Warrior
Seems that our differing stance towards EU will indeed put us at odds ;)

No worries though, I would never look down on somebody just because they are wrong about things :p

I keeeed, I keed

I think fightin over the EU is silly.... EU - we know you liek to take any opportunity to prance your high horse all over the EU... now, alot of EU background has described the DS development.

read this from sw.com (http://www.starwars.com/databank/location/deathstar/?id=eu)

and yes, poggle does have the DS plans on geonosis. If you read the sw.com entry, it says bevel lemelisk and others were forced to work on developing the plans into a reality.... The EU does *not* categorically say that *he* designed the DS.... He *was* the leading member of the team that helped create a model with a working superlaser....

so, i think in this instance, as often happens in EU, that seeming movie discontinuities and the EU can actually sit together acceptably well.....

everyone can stop fighting, and hug *now*....

:p

ET, you should know better, comin in here and stirrin up the poor EU folk...... :p

mtfbwya

ET Warrior
07-21-2004, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
ET, you should know better, comin in here and stirrin up the poor EU folk......

I can't help myself, you're all so excitable :xp:


To be truly technical, like with Boba Fett, we never saw them design it, just that they had it, we are only assuming they did.

I was responding to this statement...

Dooku got ahold of it in Episode II from Tarkin (read Rogue Planet).
Which is clearly wrong....;)

Jan Gaarni
07-21-2004, 06:30 PM
Yes, I know, ET. :)

I was just using part of something you said to underline a point. :)