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Puzzlebox
08-08-2004, 07:30 AM
Vostoc-
"Can I ask straight out what your five civs are to get any criticism I have of the choices you've made out of the way before you go ahead and work out the entirity of each civ?"

I thought this was more appropriate than doing it all in DK's thread.

Galactic Empire
Rebel Alliance
Galactic Republic
Confederacy of Independent Systems
Galactic Syndicate

Nairb Notneb
08-08-2004, 07:59 AM
These are my opinions:

Empire: Air support is week, but the over all strongest. Workers could use some help.
Rebels: Best air attack (especially in CC w/A-wing research) I rank Jedi as tied for third w/Empires Sith. Mechs are week, water week. Workers ok.
Republic: Jedi are the best everything else is average but fun to play.
Confederacy: Sith powers are great but no masters which is a big deal for me because that gives you less converting abilities. However their mechs are rivaled only by the Empire. Water needs help and air is week. The animal nursery can build the reek and acklay to fight with and it only costs food which is a plus.
Galactic Syndicate:???? If you mean the Trade Federation then the no shelters thing is a major deal, especially when playing the capture and defend the monument scenario. That means you can concentrate on building troops and not shelters. They have great mechs (rivaled only by the Empire too). Air is week, troops are week (but easy to build w/no shelters) but their water is probably the second best. Only the Gunguns are better. Sith are a little week because of no masters.

Puzzlebox
08-08-2004, 08:58 AM
Odd

Puzzlebox
08-08-2004, 08:59 AM
I see, perhaps I should have been more clear.

General Nitro
08-08-2004, 09:19 AM
What is the Galactic Syndicate?

Puzzlebox
08-08-2004, 09:26 AM
It's a consortium of various criminal organizations, examples include the Hutt Cartel and the Black Sun, this is a good stick to lead some of the EU fans with and it's more in tune with the scope than say... the Gungans are.

General Nitro
08-08-2004, 10:59 AM
I like it! Does it include Prince Xixor?

Admiral Vostok
08-08-2004, 11:06 AM
Nairb - He's talking about his own RTS design, not about SWGB.

Puzzlebox - I couldn't disagree more about the Galactic Syndicate being more "in tune with the scope" than Gungans. I'm assuming you say this because the Crime Syndicates are galaxy-wide like the other four whereas Gungans are not; that's true but there is also another aspect of the scope of the game that I feel excludes any sort of Crime Syndicate. Criminal Organisations may technically "wage war", but not in the sense of the other four. A Criminal Organisation will fight a war by getting a few hit men to take out high-ranking enemies. They certainly don't muster a military force, line up on opposite sides of the battlefield and attack en masse, which is what an RTS is all about - an essential aspect of the scope, if you will.

At any rate, a Criminal Organisation would never wage war on any of the four other civs you've got there. They're allowed to exist because they aren't overly aggressive towards governments.

But let's think of it this way: the closest thing we've got to a Galactic Syndicate in the world is the Mafia. How would the Mafia fit in to an RTS of the modern world? For example, World War II - play as Britain, USA, Germany, Russia and the Mafia? :eyeraise:

Crime Syndicates are important in Star Wars, but not when it comes to the battles that Star Wars are famous for, and not when it comes to designing a game to recreate those battles.

DK_Viceroy
08-08-2004, 11:28 AM
Combine that of course with the fact that in this "Syndicate" does NOT EXIST in any star wars book novel epic film cartoon comic or any other format doesn't help his arguments


]let me recap

THE SYNDICATE DOESN'T EXIST IN STAR WARS IT'S MADE UP.

the other four i'm fine with

though i am furiuos about you inmsulting me by impyling i'm a dog who can be led by a stick EU fans arn't stupid they know star wars and they know the "syndicate" isn't even remotely star warsy

Admiral Vostok
08-08-2004, 11:31 AM
Not to mention EUFans don't need to be specifically catered for. They're a sub-section of Star Wars fans in general. Most if not all EU Fans are also fans of the Movies, so if you include stuff from the movies in they will buy the game if it's got EU or not.

DK_Viceroy
08-08-2004, 11:35 AM
IF GB2 has the same amount that GB1 had in it I think EU fans will be pleased anyway.


Though remember some poeple just buy star wars games because it's got star wars on it.

Puzzlebox
08-08-2004, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok
Nairb - He's talking about his own RTS design, not about SWGB.

Puzzlebox - I couldn't disagree more about the Galactic Syndicate being more "in tune with the scope" than Gungans. I'm assuming you say this because the Crime Syndicates are galaxy-wide like the other four whereas Gungans are not; that's true but there is also another aspect of the scope of the game that I feel excludes any sort of Crime Syndicate. Criminal Organisations may technically "wage war", but not in the sense of the other four. A Criminal Organisation will fight a war by getting a few hit men to take out high-ranking enemies. They certainly don't muster a military force, line up on opposite sides of the battlefield and attack en masse, which is what an RTS is all about - an essential aspect of the scope, if you will.

At any rate, a Criminal Organisation would never wage war on any of the four other civs you've got there. They're allowed to exist because they aren't overly aggressive towards governments.

But let's think of it this way: the closest thing we've got to a Galactic Syndicate in the world is the Mafia. How would the Mafia fit in to an RTS of the modern world? For example, World War II - play as Britain, USA, Germany, Russia and the Mafia? :eyeraise:

Crime Syndicates are important in Star Wars, but not when it comes to the battles that Star Wars are famous for, and not when it comes to designing a game to recreate those battles.

Star Wars is written to consist of thousands and thousands of worlds Vostoc and we can't simply compare it to reality, as I have it the Syndicate holds significant sway in the senate through corruption and out right controls many of the outer rim worlds. Do the Hutts not control Tatooine...

The syndicate is like an oligarchy, there is no set leader generally and when one is necessary his stay in power is brief. Planets are conquered in the same fashion any of the other major factions do it; by replacing the leader or leaders of a government and installing their own.

You are also mistaken in your analagy, it would not be Germany, Russia, France etc... it would be Sudetland, Perm or Champagne...

DK-
I can certainly write better than these second rate nips and as such the EU "community" won't have a problem with any of this. I should also point out it would in fact be considered EU and I found your comment particularly humorous in that regard. The whole idea of the EU is people expand upon Star Wars. If "you" won't accept new content then what, EEU?

Admiral Vostok
08-08-2004, 12:55 PM
That's all well and good but the fact is a crime syndicate, no matter how powerful, would never march to war, especially not against the Empire, Rebellion, Republic or Separatists. It just isn't the way crime syndicates do things.

DK_Viceroy
08-08-2004, 01:56 PM
I only accept EU as something which has been written by a sensible Intelligent AUthentic Writer autorised by Lucas Literature to create High Quality Stuff which has some link to star wars.

YOU have none of those qualities you never had them and you never will have them and the Syndicate flies in the face of all EU the only factual thing about this syndicate is prince xizor and he was in charge of black sun and he cared only for his own orginsation.

The hutts didn't control tatooine during the time of the empire, for the most part corruption was stamped out in the senate by the empire because of one simple reason. THERE WAS NO SENATE AFTER ALDERAAN. and so no power over the empire which would have swiftly crushed this fictiuos garbage of a syndicate with a star destroyer and an understrength walker division.

Admiral Vostok
08-08-2004, 02:24 PM
Actually Viceroy makes a good point - you say the Syndicate is "a good stick to lead some of the EU fans with" but if you contradict existing EU, the fans won't be terribly happy.

DK_Viceroy
08-08-2004, 02:57 PM
And Puzzlebox you claim to be a purist but why come up with what your classing as new content EU that contradicts all other EU soley for the point of briningin in fans OF EU who will hate what you've tried to add toi the EU cosmos

Puzzlebox
08-08-2004, 03:27 PM
"I only accept EU as something which has been written by a sensible Intelligent AUthentic Writer autorised by Lucas Literature to create High Quality Stuff which has some link to star wars"

-Good, I'm glad to see you have become a purist.

"YOU have none of those qualities you never had them and you never will have them and the Syndicate flies in the face of all EU"

-I warned you once before to keep it civil, do so.

"The hutts didn't control tatooine during the time of the empire"

-And the rebellion didn't exist the same time as the Republic, Idiot.

As to the purist comment, I do not mind new material if it is written well and does not touch the story in any significant manner. About the hating me comment, take a number. If anything that I do to EU even comes close to what EU does with Star Wars then perhaps you do actually have a right to be upset.

Vostok-The syndicate is inclusive to the Black Sun and some of the Shadows of the Empire content, I'm sure they won't mind a little healthy revision, after all they have done it so well to Star Wars...

Vostoc- this one is kind of funny isn't it, they seem unable to take their own medicine.

Admiral Vostok
08-08-2004, 03:43 PM
I think the message here is "do unto others". Just because EU takes extreme liberties with Star Wars doesn't mean you in turn should take extreme liberties with EU.

You are still yet to address the fact that a crime syndicate doesn't march to battle.

And if you're warning other to be civil you might want to set an example yourself and not call them "idiot".

DK_Viceroy
08-08-2004, 04:10 PM
He is very contradictory since all of what is classes as EU namely the novels is authorised by Lucsas Literature yet he says that accepting only that mnakes me a purist certainly an interesting take on things.

I never once have been warned by you and even then i wouldn't take you any more seriuosly than i would a piece of dog slime on the sole of my slipers.

EU has done nothing to star wars except continue on from where it left off and help link the films together.

example how would you know what happened at ANsion if it wasn't for the book approaching storm which chronicles the ansion conflict and yet has obvious relevance since it's important enough to dispatch a pair of jedi there. this is stated in ep 2

Puzzlebox
08-08-2004, 04:24 PM
I think the message here is "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" and I'm not being extreme with it.

Think of it as a corporation Vostok, if they can do it and get away with it they often will, the requirement to be a civ is that they are several times more pervasive than most factions, as for them fighting the the other main factions, the Rebel Alliance didn't stand a chance against the Empire head on and in the game we are only focusing on what is effectively a skirmish, in this instance it is quite possible for the Syndicate to pose a threat to the Empire or Rebellion or what have you, in the given conflict. The rebel victory was dependent on a number of impossible to implement factors as it is concerned with a game, at least effectively, this relates to a larger point and the general atmosphere of the game.

You can't objectively use higher applicative standards when dealing with my Syndicate just because.

I called him an idiot because his statement warranted it and he abbrasive in his post towards me. The little hot head is going to calm it down and he's going to do it real soon.

Admiral Vostok
08-08-2004, 04:37 PM
That is not an excuse to justify your name calling, Puzzlebox. I thought you were an intelligent person, but your illogical double standard - calling someone an idiot while not allowing him to suggest a professional writer can write better than you - really doesn't support this.

If you truly were as intelligent as you claim you'd set an example rather than reducing yourself to the lowest common denominator.

Now, back on topic, allowing a crime syndicate to wage war on the same scale as what we see in the Battle of Geonosis is just wrong.

DK_Viceroy
08-08-2004, 04:42 PM
The little hot head is going to calm it down and he's going to do it real soon.

would that be a threat I wonder.

indeed vostok i agree with the geonosis comment the most a crime syndicate could do would be the baettle of the Dune sea and you see quite clearly what happened to jabba's syndicate.

though it does bring up the question if one regiment of storm troopers is worth one jedi?

Admiral Vostok
08-08-2004, 04:47 PM
If Puzzlebox's design is only a small scale skirmish game on the same level as WarCraft 3, then the Syndicate is probably okay since you can recreate the Battle of Dune Sea - which is probably the largest battle a crime syndicate has ever been involved in. And let's face it, if your army can get beat up by a rookie Jedi, a Wookiee, a Princess in a bikini, a gambler, a blind guy and two droids, it's not worth including even at a small scale.

Also, making it a small scale skirmish game will mean the only battle from the films you can recreate is the Battle of Yavin, which quite obviously sucks.

Personally I'd rather a large scale game, so I can recreate all of the battles from the film, although this scale would further exclude inclusion of a crime syndicate.

DK_Viceroy
08-08-2004, 04:55 PM
The let us put this rediculous Syndicate to the grave where it will rot away as if it had never existed and good riddance.

Now can we please get back to constructive ideas, instead of unworkable Crackpot ideas by people of questionable mental standing.

DK_Viceroy
08-08-2004, 04:57 PM
The let us put this rediculous Syndicate to the grave where it will rot away as if it had never existed and good riddance. besides if we were to have a game on that minute a scale we'd do better to get someone to make a star wars mod FOR warcraft 3

Now can we please get back to constructive ideas, instead of unworkable Crackpot ideas by people of questionable mental standing.

Puzzlebox
08-08-2004, 05:32 PM
Vostoc-

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=132593&perpage=40&pagenumber=2

Get over it all ready, be a little more objective.

DK-
If I my mental stability were questionable you would make the train this time. It's eggshells or yellow tape. Pick.

Admiral Vostok
08-08-2004, 05:38 PM
Which post on the page are you referring me to exactly? And what am I supposed to get over already?

And can both you and Viceroy please stop the flaming?

DK_Viceroy
08-08-2004, 05:48 PM
It's interesting puzzlebox to see that you have low self esteem since i never actually insulted you yet you took it as an insult. I regularly say things like that because it gives insight into the minds of individuals.

what train and why are you babbling about eggshells and yellow tape you are giving the impression of some demented psychiatric patient.

Admiral Vostok
08-08-2004, 05:59 PM
Viceroy, stop baiting.

DK_Viceroy
08-08-2004, 06:09 PM
I will evenm if it is funny to see a purported "Genius" Insult himself time and time again

though i do wonder however what significance yellow tape and egg shells have to any discussion where the participants both have all their mental faculties.

lukeiamyourdad
08-08-2004, 07:17 PM
I really should ask that they appoint a md between the regulars here. I'll try contacting Leon or DMUK if this continues.

General Nitro
08-08-2004, 07:41 PM
I don't mean to join the flamefest, but I do feel that puzzlebox is the source of the flame-a-thon. Only a matter of time before I get flamed for pointing out the key flamer...

lukeiamyourdad
08-08-2004, 08:45 PM
I dunno the story. Though DK and Puzzlebox seem to be at the heart of it. Vostok tries to push them apart, cool down the fire but nothing seems to work.

Admiral Vostok
08-08-2004, 09:28 PM
Well I'll drag this thread back on topic by asking Puzzlebox how he can justify the inclusion of a civ that doesn't fit in battles, when the purpose of the game is to recreate the great battles of Star Wars.

Puzzlebox
08-09-2004, 03:48 AM
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
I dunno the story. Though DK and Puzzlebox seem to be at the heart of it. Vostok tries to push them apart, cool down the fire but nothing seems to work.

Here lukei we can't have you getting the wrong idea now can we?

Puzzle-Argumentative
"Ehem, vostoks version pails in comparison to mine"
==========
Puzzle-Argumentative
The little hot head is going to calm it down and he's going to do it real soon.
==========
Puzzle-Neutral
"They will of course accept my template and adopt it"
==========
Puzzle-Neutral
"Of course you eagerly await my design, I'm a genius. :)"
==========
Puzzle-Argumentative in context
"as the Republic.Idiot"
==========
Puzzle-Neutral
"I've long thought the only way I could get them to make a damn game right is if I bank rolled it"
==========
Puzzle-Neutral
What, he has is about 30 times less than what the game actually is.
==========
Puzzle-Argumentative
"Your template is a very small amount of work. There isn't that much material at all"
==========
Puzzle-Neutral
"Towards lessons in marketing I won't go there"
==========
Puzzle-Argumentative in context.
"we shouldn't keep straying from the topic, time will tell.
==========
Puzzle-Argumentative out of context.
"Yeah I know, you might have a dollar by now :)"
==========
Puzzle-Argumentative
": Lose the idiot references and stop trying my patience, this is an innocent game forum where we are discussing a video game, for our entertainment, we shouldn't fight. Leave it."
----------------------------------------------------------------
DK-Argumentative
"YOU have none of those qualities you never had them and you never will have them "
==========
DK-Argumentative
"Beleive me there are worse things than {not saying for windu's Feelings }"
-Windu
"Viceroy - i don't give a flying f**k about you missing trains."
==========
DK-Argumentative
"whoever said empathy was a form of sympathy should be castrated"
==========
DK-Neutral
"Please bear in mind even though i am an EU guru"
==========
DK-Neutral
"This will however mean reading several thousand pages in the space of a week a doddle from someone who read the fifth harry potter book in the space of a day"
==========
DK-Argumentative in context
"It's interesting puzzlebox to see that you have low self esteem since i never actually insulted you yet "
==========
DK-Argumentative in context
"would that be a threat I wonder."
==========
DK-Argumentative
"Even if i do start arguments every 2 seconds i win most of em anyway."
==========
DK-Argumentative in context
"It's hard being right all the time But it's a way of life."
==========
DK-Argumentative
"Windu get ur own ideas"
==========
DK-Argumentative
"so i'll be able to justify correcting you"
==========
DK-Neutral
"Seems to happen every time I go away then come back this place dies and when I start posting regular asgain it comes back alive.Must be my Charm and Charisma as well as..."
==========
DK-Neutral
"Well we can't all Be wondeful Succesful and Perfect"
==========
DK-Argumentative
"Not for an idiot like you (to me, later edited out) to come in here and"
==========
DK-Argumentative
"you just cannot accept truth when it's been explained"
==========
*DK-Depends
"A what does reemed mean or is that a typo
B what IS bioware you didn't answer that question
and finally
C What leash what are you talking about..."
==========
*DK-Depends
"Ok PLEASE explain all of that in greater detail so i'll at least know your not mad or talking in code"
==========
DK-Argumentative
"Now i wonder where oh where is that ignore list pannel there's a certain bantha cleaner i don't want to hear any more."
==========
DK-Argumentative
Now Now Now pezzy you wouldn't want to get yourself in trouble now would you
==========
DK-Telling
"but i forgot the only subtlty round here is if yu go on a rampage with a two ton sledgehammer...."
==========
DK-Argumentative
"You sound like windu..."
==========
DK-Neutral
"Thank me for city builds i came up with the conecpt and made the first ever one and then innovated it"

You see lukei DK is a narcissist
http://www.angelfire.com/ego/narcissism/

I derive my crowing and such from achievements and successes I have met within my life, DK's are derived from a woeful lack thereof. Not only is he incredibly inept in a portion of his responses were to me (namely asterisked examples) but he takes personal offense to any egotistic statements by other posters and does so with the upmost hypocrisy.

He directly attacks me on several occassions where I did not directly attack him. I also find something odd about his posts, I'm not entirely sure "DK" is one person, perhaps a sister and a brother, I might be off on that but its quite possible. I say this because of the ineptitude contained in some of his posts that does not quite fit with the content in some of his other posts.

It may be true that he just lacks the intellectual capacity to make necessary discernments between the different types posts but again theres something odd about some of his responses sometimes so I don't know. DK I think this particular interest takes up too much of your life, most of us are big fans and post here often but you may need to how do I put it, find a social life.

I realise I was being childish by not ignoring DK and as I said, this is just a game forum where we are discussing our interests, it would be a waste of money and especially time to take it any further, primarily in lieu of the sophomoric circumstances. There, all better, now I can get back to hitting on you :)

-Nitro I have no problem with you whatsoever, you're very mellow and never seem to cause any problems. |And yes, Prince Xizor would be included. I am however curious how your Conquer the Galaxy mode would work. My concern is repitition.

*Edit, Conquer the galaxy would be more RMish or more campaignish?

Darth Windu
08-09-2004, 04:56 AM
Does anyone else here find this thread as incredibly funny as I do?

Getting back to the point-
Puzzlebox - i like the Sundicate idea, but not as a playable civ. They would be quite an interesting minor civ that alternately helps or hinders you in campaigns, particually the Rebellion. As for your trains comment, I really think that was a little over-the-top.

Viceroy - you need to calm down. Unfortunately, you take EU extremely seriously, but you are in the minority both here and in the general public. In terms of a SWGB2, there will be EU in it, as you can see in both my and Vstok's templates, but films units will, and should, dominate. Having said that, it would be great if other units like the TIE Defender were in the toybox and Lucasarts included an editor or something like the C&C rules.ini files which would allow you to include as much EU content in SP games as you want.

DK_Viceroy
08-09-2004, 06:23 AM
i'm perfectly calm

The little hot head is going to calm it down and he's going to do it real soon.

but no matter what way you look at that that is a threat.

what a week for DMUK to be offline indeed.

that list is biased and as such i'll ignore it as a failed attempt at flaming.

Puzzlebox
08-09-2004, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
Does anyone else here find this thread as incredibly funny as I do?

Getting back to the point-
Puzzlebox - i like the Syndicate idea, but not as a playable civ. They would be quite an interesting minor civ that alternately helps or hinders you in campaigns, particually the Rebellion. As for your trains comment, I really think that was a little over-the-top.

I wracked my brain trying to think of something else that would work, from a logical stand point I can easily defend it but that really isn't the problem.

The problem is a lot of it has to be made up, I would love to have five, six or eight factions* written by Lucas and readily translatable into the game. But there just isn't, most of the minor factions use buildings and units from the major ones so as far as space issues and such is concerned it won't be a problem, as well the way I have it structured the unbalanced minor factions can be played against the major ones, note that this isn't in any way a daunting prospect since its just simply not the same as adding five or ten more civs.

General Nitro
08-09-2004, 09:02 AM
Well, the Galactic Syndicate is perhaps the most unrealistic thing I've heard on these forums. Now that I think about it, I just can't see the Hutt Cartel working with Black Sun or anyone else for that matter. I do like the idea, but it's just too unrealistic. I think the Hutt Cartel would be an excellent civ even if it has to be a minor one and operate a bit unorthodox compared to the other civs. Prince Xixor is the only Black Sun member that I know real well. A good Rebel campaign would include taking down Black Sun and Prince Xixor in a storyline simmiliar to Shadows of the Empire. Nontheless, Hutt Cartel should be a civ and Prince Xixor should be a toy box unit for sure.

Puzzlebox
08-09-2004, 11:32 AM
Nitro-
I think you are thinking of it as a centralized organization, think of the structuring as you would the modern day mafia in America. Then apply logic when considering the implications in the Star Wars universe, all I'm adding is a little seam so as to connect the various groups, the Hutt Cartel in and of itself cannot possibly be up for consideration as a major faction, the Syndicate squeeks by while giving players an interesting alternative to play with.

As to massive engagements in open field, most planets have armies, Outer Rim worlds included, if the Syndicate installed the leader would they not gain access to that army in much the same way the Confederacy has access to the Trade Federation's army? Follow the implication.

The fact of the matter is there are a good number of minor factions including the Hutt Cartel and the Black Sun, if some of these factions are partially combined into one the player will have a viable option that provides him or her with a more varied style of play, this is good for the EU community because it gives them a little more elbow room in the game, as for altering the story it is something the EU does itself. I am sure they won't mind alterations to a given story, they do it all the time and are open to it generally. Generally.

Admiral Vostok
08-09-2004, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by Puzzlebox
As to massive engagements in open field, most planets have armies, Outer Rim worlds included, if the Syndicate installed the leader would they not gain access to that army in much the same way the Confederacy has access to the Trade Federation's army? Follow the implication.This is a bit of a stretch. How does the Syndicate install a leader on a militarised planet without an army of their own? I suppose the original leader is removed and their military force just says "oh well, I guess we'll forget our allegiances and fight for this new criminal warlord." :rolleyes: The only planets a crime syndicate would set themselves up as leaders on are military-less planets such as Tatooine.

But even if they did manage to brainwash the existing army to fight for them, how are they supposed to compete with such armies as the other four factions? They still aren't a galaxy-wide coherent force.

There's just too many oddities. Why try to shoehorn this odd civ into the game when any of the other four from the original game would be more widely accepted and require less of a leap of faith?

DK_Viceroy
08-09-2004, 11:48 AM
Especially since it would interfere with known facts from the movies. There were no standing armies on any planet other than that of the empire and rebellion.

the republic didn't have a standing army for millenia it states that clearly in the film so ergo there would be no standing armies for this farcical civ to control. you may end up pointing out the gungans but remeber the Gungans wern't part of the republic until shortly after the battle of naboo.EU supports this also so no matter what you resort to the EU or the movies you can't have it that way.

you can't change what's written in the books so your little scheme fails there also.

This farcical idea wouldn't work it would have purists and EU'ers alike clamouring for your head on a silver platter.

Admiral Vostok
08-09-2004, 11:55 AM
This farcical idea wouldn't work it would have purists and EU'ers alike clamouring for your head on a silver platter.While I don't often agree with Viceroy he is 100% right with this statement. Something that contradicts both the movies and the established EU will not be popular at all.

DK_Viceroy
08-09-2004, 12:05 PM
Now can we PLEASE put this idea of a syndicate in the useless idea pit along with the many other failed ideas like generic unit sets and air cruisers as well as the Hutt Cartell

General Nitro
08-09-2004, 12:32 PM
I agree on all of those except Hutt Cartel. What can I say? I like the gangsta scum...

DK_Viceroy
08-09-2004, 12:35 PM
I envsisoin a campaign against the Hutt cartell by the empire perhaps set before episode 4 maybe a year or too after the rise of the empire and your trying to bring the outer rim worlds under your rule and you have to right the cartell perhaps?

General Nitro
08-09-2004, 12:43 PM
A campaign like that would put a smile on my face. Also, a campaign from the Hutt's point of veiw. Sending small groups of mininoins to cause trouble and increase Jabba's empire of crime. This way, the Hutt Cartel is a playable civ and the Hutt fans can rejoice. Since the Hutt Cartel cannon compete with the other factions, it should be excluded from RM. I think this balances things out.

DK_Viceroy
08-09-2004, 12:46 PM
So a SWGB2 version of the Naga from warcraft 3 i think that's reasonable but if it's gonna be that way the hutt point oif view campaign should be a campaign in a campaign maybe with something along the lines of a C&C Tiberian Sun lines that interface was cool but maybe a lot less linear so you could pick where you fought how you fought and what you fought for.

Admiral Vostok
08-09-2004, 01:06 PM
I'd support the Hutt Cartel as a Naga-like civ, in fact that's pretty much how I've got them in my RTS design.

But allowing them to be a fully balanced civ for multiplayer isn't right.

General Nitro
08-09-2004, 02:02 PM
As long as they are in there somewhere, I'll be fine.

Puzzlebox
08-09-2004, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok
This is a bit of a stretch. How does the Syndicate install a leader on a militarised planet without an army of their own? I suppose the original leader is removed and their military force just says "oh well, I guess we'll forget our allegiances and fight for this new criminal warlord." :rolleyes: The only planets a crime syndicate would set themselves up as leaders on are military-less planets such as Tatooine.

But even if they did manage to brainwash the existing army to fight for them, how are they supposed to compete with such armies as the other four factions? They still aren't a galaxy-wide coherent force.

There's just too many oddities. Why try to shoehorn this odd civ into the game when any of the other four from the original game would be more widely accepted and require less of a leap of faith?

They install leaders the same way most people or entities have throughout history, they support someone who wants the current one dead and has a base of support.

What it comes down to is some of the minor civs I have in place can form a major civ for the players to play with, which will have EU units in a larger proportion than any of the others, why not have five on the back of the box rather than four, and it does make things more interesting and it does add more variety. Its not like we are talking about the Yuz..no here.

Admiral Vostok
08-09-2004, 05:07 PM
Whatever. If you think four civs from the movies and a totally made up and unjustified fifth civ is better than just plain four civs from the movies, good luck to you.

In my experience, most people chose quality over quantity.

FroZticles
08-10-2004, 01:41 AM
The Hutts could be used in campaigns but not as a civ maybe a mission like they were in SWGB.

Syndicate sucks they have no power in the Rrepublic they control outer worlds to cover there illegal activities. Why would they go to war to expose this? Why would they team up with other factions that have no links to?

But I think Naboo as a civ is not acceptable. Windu thinks they trained a huge army over 10 years even though Naboo is totally against the creation of an army in the Republic..... :rolleyes:

Puzzlebox
08-10-2004, 02:40 AM
I pulled the Syndicate out of the hat Frosty if I write that they have sway in a corrupt senate then they do :). I put them in more for the players, not a good sign you are all against them but your not thinking of it in the same manner as I am maybe.

DK_Viceroy
08-10-2004, 03:49 AM
Amen to that.

If we all thought the same way you did world war three would have broken out all world leaders would become murders and religous leaders would be sumarily murdered.

Puzzlebox
08-10-2004, 05:27 AM
Off-And what would you propose? Belief can be dangerous, if they don't think God is on their side you win.

ON-If more people are opposed to it than for it I'll just drop them since they are composed a few minor civs anyway.

Darth Windu
08-10-2004, 06:08 AM
FroZ - i said they could build a large military, not that they did do that - there's a difference.

Puzzlebox - in my template, i have four major civs, the Confederacy, Republic, Empire and Rebellion, and also the Naboo Coalition, which is a combination of the Royal Naboo and Gungans as a bonus civ. This adds a great deal of film content, gives players a prize for completing the SP campaigns, and adds more variety to the game.

FroZticles
08-10-2004, 07:04 AM
There a peaceful planet everything is negotiation. Even there security sucks see the royal transport get blow up by one bounty hunter.....

Puzzlebox
08-10-2004, 07:39 AM
I thought about rewards but they would be easily gotten around given the makeup of most computer games.

Those are minor factions in my template Windu and can be played, they just are not balanced to battle the major factions. I certainly see the point in what you did though, what I was going for was a neat alternative for the players that was more in tune with the other factions than the small Naboo and such. The difference there is by breaking them back down they will no longer be balanced for general use.

DK_Viceroy
08-10-2004, 08:51 AM
I support 4 main civs each with at least 3 Commadning officers.

Different officers in different civs can get certain units from the civs that won't be in

General Anakin Skywalker could get some naboo units.

General Kenobi could get some gungan units.

General Luke Skywalker could get some wookie units

General Vader could get noghiri and trandoshan units

General Poggle would obviuosly get geonosian units.

so by this we can commbine minor civs into major civs because altough they all may have used mainly humans {confederacy = droids} they all had other species playing an important role. depednign on which combo of officers you pick could also determine which other units you get.

I also would like to see a C&C TS mission selct stlye but less linear.

The motivation as i would see it for doing the campaigns could be the unlocking of the commanding officers which would allow you to play skirmishes and online and such but that propably wouldn't be practical, so instead it could allow give you a few screen themes.

Admiral Vostok
08-10-2004, 10:58 AM
If more people are opposed to it than for it I'll just drop them since they are composed a few minor civs anyway.Glad you've seen the light. The only person even mildly for the idea is Nitro, but then I think he'd rather see the Hutt Cartel implemented the way I have it, like the WC3 Naga.

I don't know how you can justify putting "them in more for the players" when just about all of the players here are totally against it.

FroZticles
08-11-2004, 01:20 AM
Well I hope they don't do what they did with the naga and added the Naga Witch in as a tavern hero. I'd just die seeing Jabba running around with his devour ability :)

DK_Viceroy
08-11-2004, 10:26 AM
How could jabba devour a person, he doesn't have teeth.

though what do people think of having the C&C TS mission select stlye but less linear.

lukeiamyourdad
08-11-2004, 10:54 AM
Jabba has a very big mouth. He can just swallow people without chewing.

DK_Viceroy
08-11-2004, 10:56 AM
AHHH where's the moon gone ah jabba's swallowed it.

j/k lol you've got a point

Darth Windu
08-12-2004, 03:47 AM
Getting back to templates, just thought id let everyone know that I have added Generals to my template, with four per side. In addition, i'm in the middle of giving each side unique buildings, but this will probably take a while and at the moment my template runs to 23 pages.

Admiral Vostok
08-12-2004, 09:22 AM
Viceroy: can you explain what the C&C TS mission select style is so those of us who haven't played it can give you an opinion?

Darth Windu
08-12-2004, 11:57 PM
Vostok - basically its when you can choose where you are going to attack, rather than the attack point simply being chosen for you. I have already included this in my template. An example from TS is when you assault a Nod base when an alien ship is. You can just attack, or you can attack an adjacent region which will prevent the original Nod base from recieving reinforcements, making the mission easier but more time consuming.