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Redwing
12-01-2004, 11:41 PM
I'm a little suspicious of your generalizations, but I'm not familiar with the differences in the Greek eras, so...;) (Classical versus Ancient? Eh? I've seen those words used for the same era...)

I do know that the Greeks of the Illiad idealized the male form as well as the female form, and male homosexuality being expected and incorporated in various stages of life (variations existed of course) was a constant throughout all stages of Greek cultural development. Along with the general oppression of women; female sexuality of all kinds was repressed. Another example of the double standard.

edit: Should also note that, far from being 'effeminate', homosexuality wasn't considered 'respectable' if one partner acted 'like a woman' in the relationship.

I really should go back and reread my art history texts on this subject. :)

I actually recently saw a fascinating art exhibit on childhood in ancient Greece. Too bad I can't remember much of it at the moment. :p

(I apologize in advance for any errors in the above post, I am really quite tired.)

BattleDog
12-02-2004, 02:02 AM
The Ancient Greeks were the Mycenaeans, they built the great citidels at Pylos, Mycenae, Tyrins and others.

They were the Acheans, they had a warrior culture, war, piracy and pilage were their main hobbies. They were also apparently traders and their is evidence of art being influenced by the Egyptians.

Palaces were built around a central "feasting hall", they were usually stone on the first floor and wood above, they had a large number of storerooms and records from Linear B tablets show that these places were administrave power centres controlling relatively large terretories compared with the later City States.

There is evidence that the econemy was essentially feudal and that writing may have been the preserve of a specific cast. All Linear B tablets found so far have been administative in nature.

The Kings, I believe the word translates as war leader, of these people were usually six and a half feet tall and were burried with armour, swords and other grave goods. Women were usually buried with items such as needles, combs. The usual kind of grave goods for a wealthy prehistoric society.

In War soldiers carried twelve foot spears and bronze swords usually with a blade about 28 inches long, although both longer and shorter varrients have been found from different periods.

The Warrior wore almost full plate armour, including breast, back, skirt and shoulder plates, as well as greaves and a helmet made of layered pieces of boar tusk. Later shirts of bronze scales appear to have been worn.

The Mycenaean period covers the years 2500-1200BC. The Fall of the city on the Hisaralisk reconded to be Troy conincideds with the end of this period.

The Trojan war is generally recokend to have been a historical event, however how much the Illiad truly represents this event is anyone's guess. Homer does agree with much of what has been uncovered about Ancient Greece, it should be noted that he was singing 400-600 years after the event.

What destroyed the Mycenaeans is a question of accademic debate, there is certainly evidence that there might have been invaders, probably from modern day Yucoslavia.

What is known is that the fires which consumed ancient Greece were hot enough to fuse together the stones of the city walls. What has been suggested is that the ten years of fighting at Troy so sapped the Mycenaean warriors that martial skills declined and they were unable to repel their attackers. Mycenaean Greece is the only example of a culture which actually lost the ability to read and write.

Around 1000BC the Dorians arrived in Greece, they apparently defeated those of the Acheans who remained, since most had fled to their colonies on the Mediteranian. The Dorians are the main ancestors of the Classical Greeks.

FYI: Classical Greece is the period after the Dark Ages, Ancient Greece is before.

FYI 2: Obviously none of the above is known for sure, and I don't have my notes with me.

Redwing
12-03-2004, 01:00 PM
Interesting. :)

I think I know who you're talking about now, actually, in the art history sense. :D I find their art, especially of the human figure, to be rather ugly. Too stiff. Not sure about the armor, though (can't remember what it looks like.) I'd comment more but I don't have my notes with me either :)

(By the Dark Ages I assume you do not mean the medieval times.)

jokemaster
12-03-2004, 03:00 PM
Just saw hercules with my nephew. God did they butcher mythology.

Redwing
12-03-2004, 03:11 PM
...

I hope you're not talking about the Disney version? ...if so, I think you're missing the point! :D

jokemaster
12-03-2004, 03:51 PM
I know what the point is, but I just saw the movie and I was suprised by it since I had never seen it before. Kinda funny though.

I'm barely starting to study mythology though, so don't trust me....

BattleDog
12-04-2004, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by Redwing
Interesting. :)

I think I know who you're talking about now, actually, in the art history sense. :D I find their art, especially of the human figure, to be rather ugly. Too stiff. Not sure about the armor, though (can't remember what it looks like.) I'd comment more but I don't have my notes with me either :)

(By the Dark Ages I assume you do not mean the medieval times.)

LOL, no Red, the Greek Dark Ages, the period between Ancient and Classical; Circa 1,200-600 BC.

*Egg on face.*

Redwing
12-17-2004, 11:44 AM
Alright, carry on in the new thread (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141409). :D