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obi
08-18-2004, 08:30 AM
Wow. This is absolutely amazing!



http://www.centuryone.com/0347-4.html



http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/CalgarySun/News/2004/08/17/586843.html


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3571502.stm


Is that awesome or what? I just saw it on the news this morning, and I thought I'd show everybody.

El Sitherino
08-18-2004, 08:33 AM
**** they found muh cave! ;_;


Interesting news for you religious type folk. congratulations.

obi
08-18-2004, 08:35 AM
Wow, that's a soft reaction coming from you, Sithy :p

I think that's bigger news then them finding the cave :D

Doomie
08-18-2004, 08:56 AM
He was a big christian religion guy, right?

Remembers me of that story about a cave they found, i believe near the black sea or something, that contained scrolls about Jesus and something about Jesus having gone all the way to India and stuff...

But those scrolls were never accepted by the big christian religious guys of today, so...

Sivy
08-18-2004, 09:02 AM
quite a discovery indeed.

whats the foot oil bath about?

manoman81
08-18-2004, 09:07 AM
The oil was used to wash feet which was a big religious thing back in the day, I think. This is a big discovery if it is in fact John's cave. Should be exciting to see what they find.

El Sitherino
08-18-2004, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by obi-wan13
Wow, that's a soft reaction coming from you, Sithy :p

I think that's bigger news then them finding the cave :D XD
love ya too buddy :p

I too wonder what all they will find. <_< skeletal remains of someone perhaps?

Astrotoy7
08-18-2004, 09:37 AM
I will acquiesce to this being an important archaelogical and historical find.....but anything more than that it is not. After 2000 years(Christianity, less years for Islam, more for Judaism etc), you'd think the worlds mainstream (western) religions would have progressed in terms of acceptance, tolerance and social equality.......

save them sinners ! (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=131867)

* * *

and Sithy, on behalf of the ppl of Japan, Im utterly disgusted !

mtfbwya

IG-64
08-18-2004, 09:45 AM
Sweet! :thumbsup:

El Sitherino
08-18-2004, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
Sithy, on behalf of the ppl of Japan, Im utterly disgusted !
Sithy, alienating everyone one post at a time. :D

Master_Keralys
08-18-2004, 10:40 AM
Interesting... I hope they don't blow this into another one of those "we found this so everything we've ever said about the Bible is true.."

Astro... dude, I'm going to argue that the reason Christianity hasn't "moderated" is because its followers believe it to be true. Now, if they're right, then they're absolutely right to carry out the Bible's commands and not to compromise. The issue isn't really whether or not people should moderate their beliefs in light of "modern culture" (after all, God's word is God's word regardless of the era) but rather whether or not the Bible is true. If it isn't, then there are no grounds for any Christian actions. If it is, then Christians would be amiss not to follow through on what the Bible teaches.

In reality, this holds true for every religion - the question is which is valid (and in this case I include atheism), not whether believers should hold true to the tenets of their beliefs until their beliefs are demonstrated to be false...

Astrotoy7
08-18-2004, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by Master_Keralys
.....Now, if they're right, then they're absolutely right to carry out the Bible's commands and not to compromise.....

Interesting points Keralys :)

The only thing thats scares me is that historically, when people start steadfastly not compromising when it comes to points of religion, it ends up awful messy....... ever been to the Gaza Strip, West Bank.......?? In fact its the "we're not comprimising for anyone 'cause we're right" crowd in any of the aforementioned mainstream (western) religious groups that cause the darn most trouble for everyone else !(and I say that as a Muslim...) ...such people are called zealouts, or more appropriately, fanatics


mtfbwya

RoxStar
08-18-2004, 11:22 AM
Cool. but I thought that Fatih was supposed to be blind?

|GG|Carl
08-18-2004, 11:25 AM
This is so cool :cool:


Btw, in case you're not very familiar with john the baptist: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_the_Baptist

obi
08-18-2004, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by RoxStar
Cool. but I thought that Fatih was supposed to be blind?

Faith can be blind. But in my case, Faith is based on experiance. Experiances that I have had throughout life. But, that's for another time. ;)

What's really cool is that this may inspire people to actually read the Bible, not just pretend and say that it contridicts itself, etc. I hope it helps put a stop to things like that.

BTW, this thread wasn't intended as a religious debate topic. I forgot to add that in the first post. It's no different then finding dinosaur bones. (Well, to me it is, but you get the point)

RoxStar
08-18-2004, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by obi-wan13
Faith can be blind. But in my case, Faith is based on experiance. Experiances that I have had throughout life. But, that's for another time. ;)


*Children Shouting*

Tell us Mr. Obes! Tell Us!:p

Astrotoy7
08-18-2004, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by RoxStar
*Children Shouting*

Tell us Mr. Obes! Tell Us!:p

Please dont encourage him Roxy :p .....like he said, he wasnt meaning this to be a religious debate, moreso the focus staying on the archaelogical and historical aspects of the find...... :D

mtfbwya

obi
08-18-2004, 11:41 AM
Ok, well, since you asked..... ;)

First there was the sterotypical healing of a lady that couldn't walk. Her muscles were twisted in a way that is hard to explain. Let's just say she was handicapped. My grandpa prayed for her, and then she started dancing around the church. Dancing. She walks fine today.

Then, there was the time that God told me to tell my pastor's wife she was going to have a son. I thought it was weird at the time, but I was obediant and told her. It turns out, she was praying for a healthy baby, because her previous child was a mis-carraige. (I didn't know this at the time) She was pregnant and didn't tell anyone, and it was only for about a week or two, so no one could tell yet. Turns out it was a baby boy. His name is Caleb and he's 3 years old, and he's the hyperist darn thing you'd ever lay eyes on.

Well, there is a ton more, but as I said, I wasn't even going to go into this in this thread, because it's about John's cave :p

Edit- Yea, basically what Astro just said :p

RoxStar
08-18-2004, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
Please dont encourage him Roxy :p

Hey blame the damn kids :p

Astrotoy7
08-18-2004, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by RoxStar
Hey blame the damn kids :p

Yes, you like blaming kids dont you, you *hate* kids, especially those poor pokemon and yu-gi kids :p

mtfbwya

toms
08-18-2004, 11:47 AM
they have found a cave... wow...

evidence looks pretty shakey to me, could be anyone's cave... :D

Master_Keralys
08-18-2004, 12:30 PM
Well, regardless, it's an interesting historical and archaelogical find. And the early evidence does suggest similarity to John the Baptist, enough to warrant the conclusion that it was indeed him referred to. The long hair of the Nazarite sect, the beheading, and the feetwashing thing all kind of add up.

Thank you for not turning this into a religion v. anti-religion flamewar, everyone!

RoxStar
08-18-2004, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
Yes, you like blaming kids dont you, you *hate* kids, especially those poor pokemon and yu-gi kids :p

mtfbwya

Thats what I was referring too ;)

Lousy kids... killed my father and uh *kidnapped* my mother.

:xp:

Kain
08-18-2004, 12:40 PM
Oh wow! They found the cave of one of the authors of the New Testament! Man, maybe I should rethink my faith...y'know, because discovering a cave is SUCH a landmark in the history. This means there HAS to be a God, I mean they found a cave where one of the primary worshippers spent his existance...man, I feel the light!

Yea, I'm not even gonna bother with the whole [/sarcasm] thing. I think I laid in on thick enough to where you can feel it over the internet...


Expand your Imagi-Nation

Acrylic
08-18-2004, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by obi-wan13
Ok, well, since you asked..... ;)

First there was the sterotypical healing of a lady that couldn't walk. Her muscles were twisted in a way that is hard to explain. Let's just say she was handicapped. My grandpa prayed for her, and then she started dancing around the church. Dancing. She walks fine today.

Then, there was the time that God told me to tell my pastor's wife she was going to have a son. I thought it was weird at the time, but I was obediant and told her. It turns out, she was praying for a healthy baby, because her previous child was a mis-carraige. (I didn't know this at the time) She was pregnant and didn't tell anyone, and it was only for about a week or two, so no one could tell yet. Turns out it was a baby boy. His name is Caleb and he's 3 years old, and he's the hyperist darn thing you'd ever lay eyes on.


Thats awesome.


And this news is awesome too! Gotta show my parents!

acdcfanbill
08-18-2004, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by Kain
Oh wow! They found the cave of one of the authors of the New Testament! Man, maybe I should rethink my faith...y'know, because discovering a cave is SUCH a landmark in the history. This means there HAS to be a God, I mean they found a cave where one of the primary worshippers spent his existance...man, I feel the light!


i remimber when noahs ark was found too

El Sitherino
08-18-2004, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by acdcfanbill
i remimber when noahs ark was found too heh, I remember that, then they also found one on mars ;)

Breton
08-18-2004, 02:52 PM
To actual thread:

Remember that this is only an allegation from a single archeologist. Archeologists asserting to have found bibical sites happens all the time. That cave could be anything, and I personally believe Gibson was from moment 1 thinking this was John's cave, and simply looked around for things that might support his point.

To Obi's experiences:

1. I suppose she recieved other medical treatment as well, if so you're just stealing the credit from the health personel. And even if not, you'll have to understand that many such health problems gets worse or better constantly. In fact, you see those "miracles" all the time in magazines promoting alternative treatment.

2. Yes, getting healthy children is really rare...

But let's lay it put there, shall we?

ShadowTemplar
08-18-2004, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by Doomgiver
He was a big christian religion guy, right?

Remembers me of that story about a cave they found, i believe near the black sea or something, that contained scrolls about Jesus and something about Jesus having gone all the way to India and stuff...

But those scrolls were never accepted by the big christian religious guys of today, so...

The Dead Sea Scrolls (http://etori.tripod.com/scrolls.html)

They were confiscated by the Catholic Church only weeks after they were found, and those fascist criminals kept them in closed archives for decades. Nobody knows how much was destroyed during that time, but it is clear that the scrolls depict a Messihan cult that - it is speculated - spawned Jesus. But if that was indeed the case, then Jesus would have been a radically different person from the one in the Gospels: A fanatical, militant terrorist and general troublemaker.

NOTE: The site I linked to has a hefty islamic bias. What is said about the Quran is about as false as it can get. If you want a thourough debunking of said text, you could read Ibn Warraq's 'Why I am not a Muslim' - although debunking the sacred texts is a somewhat pointless thing to do.

toms
08-19-2004, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by ShadowTemplar
But if that was indeed the case, then Jesus would have been a radically different person from the one in the Gospels: A fanatical, militant terrorist and general troublemaker.

The bbc did a cool documentary a while back where they tried to find "the real jesus christ" using only scientific and archeological discoveries. They also came to the conclusion that he was most likely a militant, a terrorist/freedom fighter and an anti-roman (and the collaborating jewish authorities) troublemaker.

Of course, it is pretty impossible to ever find out the truth about someone who lived so long ago, but there is just as much evidence for the "troublemaker theory" as the other one...

----

Since the bible is basically a collection of stories, it is highly likely that a lot of the people mentioned in it DID exist, but it is also possible that a lot of them were not as they have been come to be portrayed, and many were amalgamations of several people. It may well be that "john the baptist" was one of those people... so this cave may be one of the inspirations for JtB, but not all of them.

Pie™
08-19-2004, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by toms
evidence looks pretty shakey to me, could be anyone's cave... :D If they find baskets and elves there... well, who knows? ...<.<
The bbc did a cool documentary a while back where they tried to find "the real jesus christ" using only scientific and archeological discoveries. They also came to the conclusion that he was most likely a militant, a terrorist/freedom fighter and an anti-roman (and the collaborating jewish authorities) troublemaker. That made me think of The Life Of Brian, which I watched some days ago... brilliant! :D

jebbers
08-19-2004, 11:09 PM
slap me around if you wish but i think its a hoax....

but since i quit mormonism...i have accepted my native roots and embraced my tuscaroran religion/beliefs....

Astrotoy7
08-20-2004, 10:35 AM
um, here's an artists representation of what might have commonly happenned in the cave, based on the available historical evidence...

http://www.javelinamx.com/batmobile/bkbat02.jpg



mtfbwya

El Sitherino
08-20-2004, 11:28 AM
that. was. AWESOME!

PS: get on msn astro :p

Master_Keralys
08-20-2004, 01:45 PM
*shakes head*

Okay, give me probably 4 days and we are going to have one heck of an interesting debate going on over in the Senate Chambers. I don't have time to get this going right now, but as far as the whole "just a bunch of stories" thing goes, watch the Senate in the next week; I'm going to attempt to dismantle that argument piece by piece. If they find baskets and elves there... well, who knows? ...<.< Now that was funny...

As far as other comments go about Jesus being fanatical, militant, etc. (or for that matter the issues raised in The DaVinci Code) again, watch the Senate Chambers, because I'm going to make things very interesting over there. I think the debate will be good, even if it doesn't change anyone's mind. But it might at that. Like I said, 4-5 days.

Redwing
08-20-2004, 08:10 PM
Pretty interesting. :)

(But not quite Discovery-of-Noah's-Ark scale. ;D I mean, the existence of John the Baptist isn't a seriously disputed thing.)

Tyrion
08-20-2004, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by obi-wan13
Ok, well, since you asked..... ;)

Sorry Obi, I have to do this. ;)

First there was the sterotypical healing of a lady that couldn't walk. Her muscles were twisted in a way that is hard to explain. Let's just say she was handicapped. My grandpa prayed for her, and then she started dancing around the church. Dancing. She walks fine today.

Why we do we need medicene? Why be miserable when you can pray and get healed! Oh wait, you mean it doesn't always work...

Then, there was the time that God told me to tell my pastor's wife she was going to have a son. I thought it was weird at the time, but I was obediant and told her. It turns out, she was praying for a healthy baby, because her previous child was a mis-carraige. (I didn't know this at the time) She was pregnant and didn't tell anyone, and it was only for about a week or two, so no one could tell yet. Turns out it was a baby boy. His name is Caleb and he's 3 years old, and he's the hyperist darn thing you'd ever lay eyes on.

....yes Obi, we know only God could say that she was going to get a boy, when there's two different genders! :p

(Btw, in Buffy the Vampire Slayer(Not that I watched it alot, just got interested in it when there were reruns of the last season) Caleb was an evil facist male who believed in Christianity and despised females...:p)

Again, I'm sorry Obi...:p

obi
08-21-2004, 09:39 AM
No, you're not sorry. You love trying t get a reaction. But this is not the place for it. As I've said a million jillion times, this is not a debate thread. It is only to show people a cool discovery. So, if you please, don't do that anymore, and we'll all be ok. ;)

And Astro, Don't be jealous of John the Baptist because he has that awesome car. :D


To The Bapt Cave!

El Sitherino
08-21-2004, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by obi-wan13

To The Bapt Cave! :rofl:

that's just too golden to be passed up, regardless of faith.

Astrotoy7
08-21-2004, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by obi-wan13
To The Bapt Cave!

:p he he he

mtfbwya

Redwing
08-21-2004, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by Tyrion
(Btw, in Buffy the Vampire Slayer(Not that I watched it alot, just got interested in it when there were reruns of the last season) Caleb was an evil facist male who believed in Christianity and despised females...:p)

Caleb wasn't a Christian, he was a follower of the First Evil. More like a Satanist. ;)

How did we get to discussing Buffy in a thread about John the Baptist? :D

"Bapt Cave", obi? :D heee

Astrotoy7
08-21-2004, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by obi-wan13
To The Bapt Cave!

HOLY FOOT BATH 'BAPT' MAN ! THAT MEDDLESOME PONTIUS PILATE HAS STRUCK AGAIN ! :p

mtfbwya

Agen
08-21-2004, 11:10 PM
To The Bapt Cave!

:rofl:
That's going in my signature. You got me to post in a thread too, you hit the Jackot, Obi :D