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View Full Version : xMod 2.8.0 :: Client 3.0 :: Released


=X=Master HeX
08-20-2004, 08:29 AM
2.8.0 Changes
***************************************
- Invalid model fix to prevent players from picking opposing team colors
- Model fix to prevent all white bugged color models
- New fix to lower the refresh of drain to prevent spamming
- Added a cvar to disable the velocity stop when push/pulled with absorb on
- New Server selected weather effects for xmod clients
- Award system added with over 30 awards for doing various things
- Repaired the /gc topten command so it lists your current rank
- Fixed a message bug with #log
- Cvars are now alphabetized when using (/help cvar)
- New HTTP/FTP download redirection
- RGB Sabers
- Support for new CTF TFFA and FFA scoreboards
- Fixed weapon damage and ammo cvars
- Fixed a bug which made some people unable to connect to xmod servers
- Repaired a bug which caused the music to do funny things after a duel
- Added location markers to FFA chat and a cvar to turn it off

xMod2 Client Example Features
Full color mouse over names
HTTP & FTP Server downloading
Award system with over 30 awards
Sounds for every award
Icon for every award
Script Detection
New CTF FFA and TFFA Scoreboards
With caps/returns, kills/deaths, duel wins/losses

Screenshots:
http://xmod2.cat5camp.com/screenshots/s1.jpg http://xmod2.cat5camp.com/screenshots/s2.jpg http://xmod2.cat5camp.com/screenshots/s3.jpg http://xmod2.cat5camp.com/screenshots/s4.jpg http://xmod2.cat5camp.com/screenshots/s5.jpg http://xmod2.cat5camp.com/screenshots/s6.jpg http://xmod2.cat5camp.com/screenshots/s7.jpg http://xmod2.cat5camp.com/screenshots/s8.jpg http://xmod2.cat5camp.com/screenshots/s9.jpg

Special Thanks
***************************************
**Apex and Genso for the loc files
**Quakeman for all of his help
**My sweetheart for pulling me away from the computer every so often
**Everyone who trolls our forum and irc
**Razorace and everyone who works on OJP

Grab it at:
http://xmod2.cat5camp.com
xMod - win32 (http://www.pcgamemods.com/6854/)
xMod - linux (http://www.pcgamemods.com/6855/)
xMod Client 3.0 (http://www.pcgamemods.com/6856/)

keshire
08-20-2004, 08:34 AM
**Razorace and everyone who works on OJP

Here let me fix that.

**Razorace, who works on OJP

Ace-_Ventura
08-20-2004, 10:54 AM
Woooo Hoooo, i hope that is now people come play again.

Master William
08-20-2004, 10:56 AM
good job as usual

=X=Master HeX
08-20-2004, 04:42 PM
If you're getting alot of people saying that they keep seeing unknown command errors I released a patch that is available on the xmod website: http://xmod2.cat5camp.com

Kurgan
08-20-2004, 07:34 PM
Please tell me that you can't slap/etc people anymore in this version....

zERoCooL2479
08-27-2004, 02:10 PM
Fantastic Job yet again!!! Let me know if you need anything...

Kurgan
08-28-2004, 07:35 PM
I checked ASE the other day. About 300 servers running JA+ Mod (in some form or another), and about 20 running Xmod2 (only four of those running the current version).

But I see not just 2.8.0 or even 2.8.1 but also 2.8.9....

What gives? Is it possible to avoid version hell with admin mods?

And can you answer my question above?

=X=Master HeX
08-29-2004, 04:52 AM
2.8.x anything other then 0 is usually a non-released version of the mod that runs on my beta server. There is no way to test a mod without running it.

You can do whatever you want in my mod. There is no such thing as removing EVERY abusive admin command as even chat can be abused.

_PerfectAgent_
08-29-2004, 12:11 PM
So.... Do you need the client-side plugin for the FTP/HTTP downloading?

Kurgan
08-29-2004, 03:05 PM
Fair enough about the testing. You don't have to make it dedicated of course, but that's up to you, and if it doesn't require a client download that makes sense too.


So you're saying that I can slap, teleport, sleep, and slay people in Xmod2 2.8.x?

A simple yes or no will do... no need to beat around the bush about it. Either you can do that in your mod, or you can't.

As a responsible mod maker you should do your best to reduce the potential abuse. So that's why I'm asking...

Slider744
08-29-2004, 04:18 PM
lol kurgan
i couldn't resist to tell you this thing....

why asking if you knwo the anwser?

Kurgan
08-29-2004, 05:11 PM
I want him to say it. ; )

What's he ashamed of? That he wants his mod to be as popular as your's?

zERoCooL2479
08-31-2004, 04:14 PM
Don't worry Slider, you are still the leading kid in n00b-abuse prone mods. Let's just see how long it takes you to rip something else of other mods. Care to take a crack at the off-server downloading?

TK-8252
08-31-2004, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by zERoCooL2479
Let's just see how long it takes you to rip something else of other mods. Care to take a crack at the off-server downloading?

http://japlus.fragism.com/gl-bin/forum/viewtopic.php?t=881

Kurgan
08-31-2004, 06:44 PM
Look, I didn't want to start a flame fest here, so please don't anybody else do it...


I just wanted Hex to tell us straight up, did he remove the abusive commands (and he knows what I'm talking about as well as does everyone else), like the mod had, pre- 2.7.x or not?

A simple yes or no is all I'm asking for. He's already explained at length why he put in the commands, then removed them, then put them back in.

In the past both Slider & Hex (though he's changed his mind before, showing he's more flexible) have given reasons why they wish to include abusive commands in their mods. Lately they've tried to dodge criticism for this by adding more and more "features" to their mods, in the hopes to win more users. Nothing wrong with that, but I wonder why the abusive commands are so "needed" in the first place? But at least keep your audience informed if your mod uses these commands or not...


Besides (and I do NOT mean this as a flame, so please don't anyone take it personally), should we accuse Xmod2 of "ripping off somebody else" because it added commands like slap, teleport, etc? I don't have a problem with mods using similar features of each other, as long as people take the time to give credit where credit is due and don't write off other's work as their own. Otherwise, what's wrong with using a feature that's considered good?

If JA+ were to add off-server downloading, that would not be a bad thing. What would be a bad thing is if Slider took Hex's code, and used it in his mod without permission. But it's not as if Hex invented off-server downloading, he's simply the first one (that I know of) to implement it in JA (other Q3 engine games have it, I'm told). (Some of these comments are also directed at the issues raised on the site that was linked above)

Master William
09-01-2004, 02:05 AM
I think the only thing a game needs is KICK and BAN... why other unnecessary commands?? Do you see your team in BF1942 getting slapped around for camping the enemy spawn? No, they either get kicked, banned, or perhaps warned (and that's without slapping them or something similar)

The Download feature in Xmod sounds pretty good, and I don't think it sucks the bandwith out of the server as someone said before, because it downloads from an URL, not the server it is trying to connect to.

Originally posted by Kurgan
Besides (and I do NOT mean this as a flame, so please don't anyone take it personally), should we accuse Xmod2 of "ripping off somebody else" because it added commands like slap, teleport, etc? I don't have a problem with mods using similar features of each other, as long as people take the time to give credit where credit is due and don't write off other's work as their own. Otherwise, what's wrong with using a feature that's considered good?

Excellent point(s). Slider doesn't steal anything, he's just inspired. For instance: Nintendo started the 4-player thing with consoles, and now all consoles have that implented. Let's accuse them for stealing? No.

Originally posted by Kurgan
If JA+ were to add off-server downloading, that would not be a bad thing. What would be a bad thing is if Slider took Hex's code, and used it in his mod without permission. But it's not as if Hex invented off-server downloading, he's simply the first one (that I know of) to implement it in JA (other Q3 engine games have it, I'm told). (Some of these comments are also directed at the issues raised on the site that was linked above)

Yes, I would like it if Slider used the same idea but with a different code or way of doing it, simply copying the code is stealing.

Ace-_Ventura
09-01-2004, 06:34 AM
now the question is.. will he be able to do it?

iamtrip
09-01-2004, 12:48 PM
watch'all moaning about anyway.

1.)If they /amsleep you, why do you want to even be on their server?
2.) The only people who do that stuff are rpg'ers/honour people (see 1.) )
3.) If they don't have /amsleep commands, then they'll just use addip or clientkick, so none of that really matters.

:)

Kurgan
09-01-2004, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by iamtrip
[B]watch'all moaning about anyway.

1.)If they /amsleep you, why do you want to even be on their server?

This isn't really a problem with Xmod2, because there are only about 20 such servers. The problem is when a mod that has them gets really popular (like JA+ Mod) so that it's very difficult to find a server that DOESN'T use it. Basically, the majority of populated servers have some kind of admin mod running, and most of them have slap/sleep/teleport type commands implemented. So one can't very well just hop to another server.

It's when these abusive mods have a monopoly that this logic of just jumping to another server falls flat.


2.) The only people who do that stuff are rpg'ers/honour people (see 1.) )

Which again, seem to comprise a large number of the admins out there. That and you forgot another major category of admin.. the "jerk."

These are the guys who are either "bored" or sore losers, who will slap you to prevent them from losing, or because they are bored just playing the game and want to "screw with" people.

As long as the admin has those powers at his fingertips, it doesn't matter if his server is an "RPG" (these are actually quite rare) or "Honor" (much more common).


3.) If they don't have /amsleep commands, then they'll just use addip or clientkick, so none of that really matters.

It all comes down to tact. Would you rather be kicked from a server or humiliated and taunted by some kid using the amabuse commands until you disconnect yourself out of frustration? Likewise, the abusive commands allow him to effectively cheat anytime in the game, without disconnecting people.

So what fun is there in the game anymore when you know that the Admin can cheat to win or prevent other players from scoring? He can even do it subtly so you don't notice it unless you're watching carefully.

Admin Mods essentially make the admin (and his friends, who he can make into "subadmins" at will) a cheater. And who wants to play a game alongside a cheater (when you of course are forced to follow the rules?)?

It kills any sense of fun and competition.

The whole "just suck it up and learn to live with it" philosophy is fine and dandy when it's the base game as designed by the developers. When it's amateur third party mods created by people who are influenced by public opinion, then it's worth mentioning.


This just in from Hex on ICQ:

they are still in there

Thank you for responding. Not surprised, but that's what I wanted, a reply!

Here's hoping you reconsider with future versions...

=X=Master HeX
09-01-2004, 02:40 PM
I'm taking out slap, sleep, trip from the next version. Those are pointless and abused the most... Kill and summon can still be used to get people out of map bugs or for abuse enjoyment if that's what it comes to. They arn't as anoying in my eyes.

iamtrip
09-01-2004, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
It kills any sense of fun and competition.

I don't think you needed an admin mod for that.


But I see what you mean. It was kinda like that in jk2, except there were competetive servers, rather than just a mass of rpg/honour servers, where you could play without all the messing around.

My point was though, no matter whether the am commands are there or not, if an admin wants to abuse you, then removal of those commands won't resolve the issues.
I'm sure JA has some competetive servers (where even with those commands at their disposal, the admin won't use them).

<-KRT->Dhart
09-01-2004, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
[B]This isn't really a problem with Xmod2, because there are only about 20 such servers... [/i]

Okay... then spend your time playing one of those xmod servers instead of whining about JA+ servers in this forum.

Problem solved! :-)

TK-8252
09-01-2004, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by <-KRT->Dhart
Okay... then spend your time playing one of those xmod servers instead of whining about JA+ servers in this forum.

Problem solved! :-)

You've entirely missed Kurgan's many great points.

And learn the difference between whining and critisising. Whining doesn't involve lengthy posts that contain excellent points with a great deal of wisdom.

If you think that Kurgan is whining, you must not play Jedi Academy multiplayer.

zERoCooL2479
09-02-2004, 02:39 AM
Originally posted by TK-8252
http://japlus.fragism.com/gl-bin/forum/viewtopic.php?t=881

LOL...that's classic. Anyways, the JAR mod is a very vanilla kinda of mod. Not many things in it, but it does pack a punch when you want it to. However, I definitely enjoy xMod and I think Hex has done a great job with it.

Personally, I don't think Slider can think of anything on his own. In any case, when he does a "copied feature" it's usually a poorly done version of it. Don't beleive me? Run a diff between all the released mods out there against JA+. How many things can you find unique about his mod?

zero, maybe 1 or 2?

Heh...I rest my case.

c1 out!!!!

zERoCooL2479
09-02-2004, 02:44 AM
Originally posted by keshire
Here let me fix that.


Heeeeyyy, I did some stuff o_0

iamtrip
09-02-2004, 04:17 PM
Well in JK2, JA was never taken seriously and I see the same is true in JA.

JA mod weas always the mod to get for up and coming, mad for it RPG'ers, new on this wicked' Star Warz scene.
(possibly why its become popular).


Thats why the slap sleep etc. won't go in that mod.

Kurgan
09-02-2004, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by iamtrip
I don't think you needed an admin mod for that.


But I see what you mean. It was kinda like that in jk2, except there were competetive servers, rather than just a mass of rpg/honour servers, where you could play without all the messing around.

My point was though, no matter whether the am commands are there or not, if an admin wants to abuse you, then removal of those commands won't resolve the issues.
I'm sure JA has some competetive servers (where even with those commands at their disposal, the admin won't use them).

True, all the abusive commands do (I mean slap, sleep, empower, bunny, trip, etc.) is make it MUCH EASIER for the admins to abuse people and turn the game into a cheat-fest rather than a competative game.

In basejka an admin can kick and ban everyone if he wants to. If Voting is turned on then people can vote and kick off everyone. That's about it.

Putting those abusive commands in (the ones I cited and ones like them) is just too big a temptation for many admins out there that are "bored" or sore losers.

Thus I consider mods that have these commands to be "enablers" for abusive admins. That's why I (and I assume others who do the same) protest them.


JK2 and JA are both full of sore losers and power mad admins. They both have their RPG and "h0n0rz" players. They both have lots of admin mods. But it seems there's been a more concerted effort in JA to recognize that the problem exists and do something about it (ie: stop releasing mods with those commands in them). Some people don't listen and never will. That's okay.

The fact that there are still some players who believe in competition and some mod makers who still believe in not enabling the abusers gives me hope. That's the point of all my ranting, not to target certain people and flame them for no reason or act holier-than-thou.

I like to play and have a good time, and I hope that option is always available to others. We can make the community a better place for gamers (the reason games were created) or we can make it a safer place for the RPG/h0n0rz/abusers. That's how I see it.


And as to the "well just play on another server" replies. I already addressed that. How can I play on another server if all of the servers are using mods which I know contain commands which serve no purpose other than to abuse players? I can't join such a server secure in the knowledge that the admin will chose NOT to use them on me and ruin my good time.

Granted, I can be kicked and banned from any server for any reason, but that's true of all games. I don't need to be subjected to the abuse of the extra commands which are introduced by careless or sadistic mod makers (or mod makers who do it with the mistaken impression that these commands are what people WANT and NEED).

Kudos to Hex for deciding to clean up the next version of Xmod2! But I wonder, are kill and summon really needed? I assume you mean the admin has the ability to kill a player on command. Why is that needed to "get a player out of a map bug"? Can't a player just type /kill in his own console to suicide and re-spawn?

Can't he go into spectator mode? If that's an issue, just make it so that spectator mode switching doesn't wipe out a person's score (or only subtracts 1 point). If suicide spamming is an issue, just make it an autokick if they use the /kill command too many times within a short period. The less "push button punishments" you give the admin, the better.

Kurgan
09-02-2004, 05:48 PM
Let's put this another way, just for purposes of illustration (for those who still don't understand why abusive mods are harmful):


Let's say I host a tournament on my server. And I run a mod called "Kurgan's Mod" which is server side, so everyone is affected by it, no matter what (no downloads necessary to join).

And let's say this mod gives me a button (me and only me). If I press the special button it gives me 10 points and subtracts 10 points from the scores of everyone else in the game. And just by looking at the scoreboard you can't tell it was done through the button rather than through actual kills/points.

Let's say I also have another special button that allows me to get all my health, ammo and force mana back to full at any time. It does this silently so nobody knows I am doing it, and is undetectable.

Now let's say you know I have those abilities. Would you still consent to play in a tournament with me? And would you consider me the winner of the tournament when I inevitably win using my special powers?


Now let's say that 90% of the servers out there were running "Kurgan's Mod." Do you begin to see the problem?

TK-8252
09-02-2004, 05:55 PM
Also, most of the kiddie admins don't even know HOW to use rcon. They think that you HAVE to install JA+ to be able to kick and ban. Instead they need "slapguns" and "kickguns" that let the god-like admin aim and shoot someone a slap or slay or kick.

In addition to a lack of knowledge of rcon, the kiddie admin abusers aren't out to just kick and ban people. First they want to "screw around" with the person. This involves slapping, slaying, punishing, or any other form of abuse. Then when they're bored of screwing with that person and lose interest, the kickban command comes in play. Then the next hapless victim comes in to be treated the same way.

This is why the "you can abuse with rcon" argument falls flat.

Sam Fisher
09-02-2004, 06:05 PM
What really pisses me off, is that I get kicked/banned for using GUNS on a FFA! And its so easy to fall victim to the binds that slap like 10 times, continuously slay, and teleport you all over the place...

I don't get it..

My 3 cents.

Kurgan
09-02-2004, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by TK-8252
Also, most of the kiddie admins don't even know HOW to use rcon. They think that you HAVE to install JA+ to be able to kick and ban. Instead they need "slapguns" and "kickguns" that let the god-like admin aim and shoot someone a slap or slay or kick.

In addition to a lack of knowledge of rcon, the kiddie admin abusers aren't out to just kick and ban people. First they want to "screw around" with the person. This involves slapping, slaying, punishing, or any other form of abuse. Then when they're bored of screwing with that person and lose interest, the kickban command comes in play. Then the next hapless victim comes in to be treated the same way.

This is why the "you can abuse with rcon" argument falls flat.

A very good point. Without admin mods, some of these people wouldn't even be hosting servers or would be unable to do basic functions since they don't know how to use the console! These are the same folks who don't realize they can change default settings like forceregentime 0 and think it's a default JA setting!

Then again, if they can learn to type console commands (as advanced commands in admin mods require anyway), they can learn rcon.

But good point about the binds. And this reinforces the statement I made earlier about these mods being "enablers" for would-be abusers. Sure, it can't prevent abuse completely, but it certainly makes it a lot harder if we don't just hand them such easy to use tools (like the slapgun in your example) like this.

So removing the more abuse-prone commands DOES have a positive impact, not on everyone, but at least on some people, perhaps even a sizable number.

Amidala from Chop Shop
09-03-2004, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by Kurgan
So removing the more abuse-prone commands DOES have a positive impact, not on everyone, but at least on some people, perhaps even a sizable number.

Wrong. Wrong wrong wrong.

You are beyond wishful thinking, and well into Fantasyland.

Most servers that are running a mod are running JA+ Mod.

JA+ Mod has the most amabuse commands (including empowerment as a type of abuse).

Removing those commands from xmod or other mods has negligble effects on abuse because:
1. Relatively few servers are running those mods
2. The admins who run mods without amabuse commands are unlikely to be the abusive types anyway.

Even if future versions of JA+ Mod removed amabuse commands (which will never happen because slider truly believes they are "necessary" to control "lamers", and deep down he knows the popularity of those commands is a big reason for the popularity of JA+ Mod, and the popularity of JA+ Mod is all he cares about, not its effects on the community), people would just use the current or older versions that still have amabuse commands.

Getting Hex or even slider (which, again, would never happen) to remove those commands is really silly and pointless, a symbolic victory at best and nothing more. It will have ZERO impact on abuse, not on "everyone", not "on some people", forget about "a sizable number", Z-E-R-O impact.

I can't believe you are still beating a horse that is not only dead, but who escaped from the barn with the first release of JA+ Mod.

Kind of sad actually. Tweaking Hex accomplishes nothing. There are plenty of reasons to be dismayed with what JA+ Mod did to this game and the community, but this is a dead issue. It's time to move on. I have. No one can help a community as a whole that is in the clutches of JA+ Mod. All you can do is provide a few islands of freedom and skill in the ocean of noobishness and abuse that is JA+ Mod.

Get your server back up Kurgan. That will have far far more positive effects than your fillibusters here or nagging Hex about a few commands.

iamtrip
09-03-2004, 12:15 PM
i think they are all siths 2.

Kurgan
09-03-2004, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
Wrong. Wrong wrong wrong.

You are beyond wishful thinking, and well into Fantasyland.

Most servers that are running a mod are running JA+ Mod.

JA+ Mod has the most amabuse commands (including empowerment as a type of abuse).

Much as I respect your opinions I have to disagree with your disagreement here. ; )

While fixing Xmod2 won't change JA+ Mod (we all know how stubborn Slider has been about this issue), that will theoretically open up about 20 more servers for those of us who wish to play without being abused. So that IS a positive step.

I don't claim to forsee the day when Slider removes the commands from his mod, or people stop using it (though either of thsoe scenarios would be a great day for the community), rather every little bit helps.


Removing those commands from xmod or other mods has negligble effects on abuse because:
1. Relatively few servers are running those mods
2. The admins who run mods without amabuse commands are unlikely to be the abusive types anyway.


As to #2, that seems obvious, but on the other hand a person may use a different mod from JA+ due to features he wants to use. He will have to then trade off his ability to abuse people for fun with the features that JA+ Mod lacks. There are also people who don't use certain mods because of odd bugs on their system. So there is more to it than just wanting to use amabuse.


Even if future versions of JA+ Mod removed amabuse commands (which will never happen because slider truly believes they are "necessary" to control "lamers", and deep down he knows the popularity of those commands is a big reason for the popularity of JA+ Mod, and the popularity of JA+ Mod is all he cares about, not its effects on the community), people would just use the current or older versions that still have amabuse commands.

They could, but the number of people using those versions will go down in favor of those people using the "newest" version. This is always the case with mods that go through versions. Sure, you'll have people using older versions, unless you issue some kind of restraining order. You can make it harder to find the old verison by removing it from sites, but most people will "upgrade" and take this as a trade off. They'll take the new features and improvements over losing the few abusive commands.


Getting Hex or even slider (which, again, would never happen) to remove those commands is really silly and pointless, a symbolic victory at best and nothing more. It will have ZERO impact on abuse, not on "everyone", not "on some people", forget about "a sizable number", Z-E-R-O impact.

That's where you're wrong. The Xmod servers will be less abusive. And this sets a precedent for future admin mod makers. Back in the days when "everyone" was making admin mods with all these same commands there was the bandwagon effect to keep them in. With every mod that removes them, that's a reversal of the effect.

Not a complete reversal, but a step away from everyone putting them into every mod without thinking.

So maybe 20 servers is a "symbolic victory" but why bother trying to stop it from happening? Aren't you also wasting breath by telling me to just let it go? ; )

Maybe you've given up, but some of us haven't. At least Hex is willing to listen to feedback (not just the feedback he wants to hear).


I can't believe you are still beating a horse that is not only dead, but who escaped from the barn with the first release of JA+ Mod.

And you'd know right? No offense, but you've done at least as much crusading (if not more) on this subject on this and other forums as I have. Just because you've thrown in the towel and accepted "reality" (or whatever it is you're accepting with your defeat) doesn't mean everyone else has to. Again, no offense.


Kind of sad actually. Tweaking Hex accomplishes nothing.

It accomplishes something. It improves the Xmod2 scene, and it sets the precedent for future mod makers.

There, and he even changed his mind in this very thread. I won't chalk it up to my ranting, but he did it nonetheless. If nothing can ever change, why did that happen?

There are plenty of reasons to be dismayed with what JA+ Mod did to this game and the community, but this is a dead issue.

I don't see it that way. People are still talking about it besides just you and me.

It's time to move on. I have. No one can help a community as a whole that is in the clutches of JA+ Mod.

So I take it you've stopped hosting JA servers?

All you can do is provide a few islands of freedom and skill in the ocean of noobishness and abuse that is JA+ Mod.

That's the idea, actually. If we just let Xmod2 go, that's even fewer options for those who don't want to put up with the crap from JA+. Of course my "crusade" really isn't against JA+ Mod or Slider, it's against the abuse-happy commands that have been so popularly copied and pasted since the JK2 days.

Get your server back up Kurgan. That will have far far more positive effects than your fillibusters here or nagging Hex about a few commands. [/B]

I'm waiting on OJP actually. I have a host picked out and everything. I just want a decent mod to run with it. And before you say anything bad about that, this isn't an admin mod. OJP Basic has vastly improved bots, that can actually complete the Siege objectives (rather than run around shooting people at random) and have a rudimentary orders structure. Plus there's features that really benefit Siege like exploit fixes and forced team switching. Since I have less time these days to babysit on a server, these features are essential.

So, that's why I don't have it up yet, not because I'm hoping that I can wean the entire community off JA+ mod first.

Xmod2 has some nice features, but not quite the ones I need for my Siege server, and as long as it has the abusive functions I don't feel like supporting it (note: by his comments Hex's next version should be acceptable).

So there you have it, Amidala.

Amidala from Chop Shop
09-03-2004, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
While fixing Xmod2 won't change JA+ Mod (we all know how stubborn Slider has been about this issue), that will theoretically open up about 20 more servers for those of us who wish to play without being abused. So that IS a positive step.
It's not 20, it's 13. Out of 551. That's 2.5% That's why I said


Removing those commands from xmod or other mods has negligible effects on abuse
I would say that theoretically reducing non-existent abuse on 2.5% of the servers is a negligible effect.

Originally posted by Kurgan
They could, but the number of people using those versions will go down in favor of those people using the "newest" version. This is always the case with mods that go through versions. Sure, you'll have people using older versions, unless you issue some kind of restraining order. You can make it harder to find the old verison by removing it from sites, but most people will "upgrade" and take this as a trade off. They'll take the new features and improvements over losing the few abusive commands.
Even though the latest version of JA+ Mod has all amabuse features intact as well as "new" features ("new" to JA+ Mod that is, but previously seen in other mods), 17% of the JA+ Mod servers are still using an older version. If slider were to drop all of the amabuse commands in the next version (again purely hypothetical, because it will never happen), that figure would rise to 77, 87, or 97%. You underestimate how many clan-type server operators are convinced they need those commands to "maintain order" and "punish lamers" in their prison yards, er, servers I mean.

Originally posted by Kurgan
That's where you're wrong. The Xmod servers will be less abusive. And this sets a precedent for future admin mod makers. Back in the days when "everyone" was making admin mods with all these same commands there was the bandwagon effect to keep them in. With every mod that removes them, that's a reversal of the effect.

Not a complete reversal, but a step away from everyone putting them into every mod without thinking.

So maybe 20 servers is a "symbolic victory" but why bother trying to stop it from happening? Aren't you also wasting breath by telling me to just let it go? ; )

Maybe you've given up, but some of us haven't. At least Hex is willing to listen to feedback (not just the feedback he wants to hear).
Server operators attracted to xmod aren't looking for a better way to abuse "lamers" anyway, so removing those commands is irrelevant because they weren't being used much if at all anyway. And even if, hypothetically, there was rampant abuse on xmod servers which will be eliminated by removing those commands, it's still only 2.5% of all servers (13, not "20"). If you get excited about the removal of little-used abuse commands on 2.5% of the servers, well, I guess when you are grasping for straws that's a few straws. Has no effect on the other 97.5% of servers either way.

Originally posted by Kurgan
And you'd know right? No offense, but you've done at least as much crusading (if not more) on this subject on this and other forums as I have. Just because you've thrown in the towel and accepted "reality" (or whatever it is you're accepting with your defeat) doesn't mean everyone else has to. Again, no offense.

Tilt at windmills all you want if it makes you feel better. I have better things to do. I tried keep what happened from happening a long time ago, but that time has passed. No amount of taunting Hex into removing a few commands is going to make any significant impact on the community as a whole. If it makes you feel better to keep trying, go ahead. Like I said, you would do a lot more good putting your server back up to provide one more JA+ Mod-free place for people to play.

Originally posted by Kurgan
It accomplishes something. It improves the Xmod2 scene, and it sets the precedent for future mod makers.
2.5%

2.5%

2.5%

Originally posted by Kurgan
I don't see it that way. People are still talking about it besides just you and me.
I'm not talking about it, except to answer your posts. Talking has no significant impact on the vast majority of the community.

Originally posted by Kurgan
So I take it you've stopped hosting JA servers?

Obviously not. What I don't do is try to get mod makers to remove amabuse commands, that's a total waste of time. I was pleasantly suprised that in the latest version of JA+ Mod, slider listened to criticism and changed the value for g_forceregentime from 0 to 50 in his sample server.cfg, so that's definitely an improvement. Of course, he has already created legions of players who only know insta-Force regeneration, who can't play without it, who think anything above 0 is "too slow", who can't play without spamming katas and butterfly moves because they can, who run out of Force within 2 seconds of playing on a server with default or near-default regeneration because they have no clue about Force conservation and management, and who spam and whore any Force powers that aren't disabled, but that's another issue.

I continue to do what I have always tried to do: provide places where people can play the game without abuse and false, phony, fake, made-up, added-on "rules" and "honor codes" for the few remaining veteran players who haven't already left for honor-noob-free games, and the even fewer new players who somehow escaped the brainwashing, coercion, and peer-pressure of JA+ modded "honor" servers. That's what I mean by "islands of freedom and skill in the ocean of noobishness and amabuse" that is JA+ modded Jedi Academy.

Those players are still out there, enough to fill up my servers. This is a screenshot of ALL Jedi Academy servers, ALL gametypes, ALL mods, ranked by number of players some time on August 29, 2004:

http://premium.uploadit.org/Amidala/screenshot-082904_cropped.jpg

Both the Chop Shop CTF server and the ForceMod III Server are mine.

And tonight, I was pleasantly suprised when I did the same thing with ALL Jedi Outcast servers, ALL gametypes, ALL mods:

http://premium.uploadit.org/Amidala/screenshot-090304_cropped.jpg

Ah haha. The busiest JK2 server at one point tonight has NO LIGHTSABERS and no "honor codes"! Take that, you saber-only honor noobs!

That's why you should get your server up NOW Kurgan, don't wait for a mod, add it later. The more islands of refuge the better, until the rescue ship Star Wars Battlefront comes to take us away from all this "lamer!" whining - Bantha soup chatting - 0 forceregentime whoring - saber dooling - grapple shooting - rancor spawning - kata spamming noobishness.

Build it and they will come. Much more satisfying than ranting about a few rarely-used commands on 2.5% of Jedi Academy servers.

mediablitz
09-04-2004, 07:02 AM
I played JK series online competitively for 3 years. It's over fellas. The morons have won, the series is theirs now. You can hang onto it, but deep down you know it's true. Name 3 good serious competition based servers in jka. You probably named around two (Refresh and Refresh 2). Now name one good saber only full force competition server. Yeah, I can't think of one either. See my point? It took me awhile, but I finally gave up on it. Got tired of banging my head against the wall trying to talk sense into clueless newbies.

The good news is, d3 owns, and should hold us all over nicely until the glory that is quake 4 is released.

mediablitz
09-04-2004, 07:07 AM
As for the old ja+ vs Xmod debate, it's just ridiculous. Go find the 100 greatest jk series players of all time and ask them which mod is better, and all 100 will say that Xmod is better in every single last aspect. Drop it, ja+ doesn't deserve to be even mentioned. It has been a major part of ruining the series on many levels.

Slider isn't even in the same league as hex with modding. All of the elites give him that, even the oldschool haters like my fk pals. Hex can locate and figure out how to fix/modify/change anything in the engine. I've seen him work out suggestions before, he's an expert of the code, not just some copy/paste joker.

Kurgan
09-04-2004, 10:21 AM
Amidala, I don't think Battlefront (or Republic Commando) will solve the problem, because neither of those games have playable Jedi (and that's what the n00bs want right? Saber duels and Jedi most of all).

These games might have editing and might be fun to chat and dance in, who knows, but they won't be the same...

Likewise SWG didn't get rid of the RPG players, because they were too cheap to pay the monthly fee. Though maybe some of them went.

Anyway, like I said, if I'm wasting my breath, then so are you...

Clearly you do still care, since you're still spending money on server hosting and you're spending time Force Long Posting here. Tilting with windmills indeed. ; )

So keep those islands going, every little bit helps!

_PerfectAgent_
09-05-2004, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by _PerfectAgent_
So.... Do you need the client-side plugin for the FTP/HTTP downloading?

kolusiem
09-06-2004, 02:39 AM
Amidala, I don't think Battlefront (or Republic Commando) will solve the problem, because neither of those games have playable Jedi (and that's what the n00bs want right? Saber duels and Jedi most of all).

I read somewhere that jedi will be in the game but only as an NPC, maybe some moding idiot (possibly slider) will make it playable? don't know if it's possible though..hope not.

iamtrip
09-06-2004, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by kolusiem
I read somewhere that jedi will be in the game but only as an NPC, maybe some moding idiot (possibly slider) will make it playable? don't know if it's possible though..hope not.

Lol, i susptct it would require some code knowledge, especially when theres nothing to ctrl+c from :o