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View Full Version : A way to include Space Battles in SWGB2


Darth Windu
08-27-2004, 01:04 AM
Okay, i was thinking about how to do this a while ago, and did a redesign for my template to include a Space Battle RTS along with the Ground Battle RTS in the one game, but have since removed it as it was far too complex and would likely turn out to be really bad.

I have therefore come to the conclusion that the best thing to do is add an RTT Space Battles section. The idea would work like this-
In the 'Conquer the Galaxy' mode, you attack a system/planet. If there is no enemy 'army' present, gameplay automatically goes to Ground Battle and follows from there. If, however, an enemy army is present, gameplay goes to a space RTT. In this, you would have a task force and would have to defeat or cripple the enemy task force. Your strength and your opponents strength would be defined by how many 'armies' are attacking and defending. So if you have two armies attacking and they have one defending, you have roughly double the power of your enemy.

Using this system completely eliminates the need for space resources and resource collection, colony/worker/assault ships, and if we are using a 3D engine for the ground component, the same engine is used with a star background and a few planets thrown in.

Thoughts?

swphreak
08-27-2004, 10:58 AM
Just stick to one. Space or Ground. At this point, I'll take either in a new and improved 3D engine, but I really really want a "Homeworld 2 Star Wars Clone" (I am aware of mods for this game, but frankly they suck).

Admiral Vostok
08-27-2004, 11:06 AM
I had also been thinking about integrating the two. What you're suggesting is probably the best idea, though overall I agree with Phreak in that it just won't work well.

It's a nice idea, but adding such a huge feature to only the Conquer the Galaxy mode is a bit of a waste of time. Games will just get way too long, and one-off multiplayer games of the kind we get now will be less common. As a result, the multiplayer community will suffer, and we all know it is the MP community that keeps a game alive.

DK_Viceroy
08-27-2004, 12:51 PM
Sounds similar to Imperium Galactica 2 which I have often said would make a good starting point so mayube we could develop this idea some more to make it a little less awkward.

FroZticles
08-28-2004, 12:37 AM
One or the other I think is the best way. If you have both, space or ground one will be neglected and thats something which we should not see. Space and ground battles in star wars are equally important, even tough after clone wars more people have been focusing on ground battles and ignored space.

Darth Windu
08-28-2004, 02:22 AM
Well, with this concept, Ground combat would still be the number 1 feature of the game. In terms of making the game too long and whatnot, the simple solution would be to enable a player to turn space battles on or off.

This, is some sense, is like 'Star Trek: Birth of the Federation'. It's an old turn-based game, and it takes a really long time to complete, but it is very addictive. It also has a 'tactical combat' section which allows you to give specific orders to your ships in battle, but can be turned off, with the computer doing the battle for you. The only difference here would be that we skip the space battle altogether.

Admiral Vostok
08-28-2004, 05:35 PM
I agree with Froz that trying to fit both in, even to this limited extent will see one or the other suffer. Most likely in this case the space battles will suffer, so why include them at all?

However, there is the problem that without an inclusion like this, I don't think a pure space battle Star Wars RTS would work. The reason being is that there just isn't enough decent units.

I'm basing this on Homeworld 2, which is the only space RTS I've played. They have a lot of units, far more than Star Wars, even if you use EU. Homeworld 2 has:
- Fighters
- Bombers
- Gunships
- Frigates
- Cruisers
- Capital Ships
And lots more. I'm sure StarWarsPhreak, being the fan he is, can fill it out better than me, who became too bored with the game to get to know it intimately.

Here's the units from the movies that could be used in a Space RTS (of course, EU could be added too, but I still don't think there's enough EU to fill all the roles that Homeworld 2 had):

Empire
Star Destroyer
Super Star Destroyer
TIE Fighter
TIE Bomber
TIE Interceptor

Rebellion
Mon Calamari Cruiser
Medical Frigate
Blockade Runner
X-Wing
Y-Wing
A-Wing
B-Wing

Republic
Assault Ship
Jedi Starfighter

Separatists
Federation War Freighter (and Droid Control Ship)
Techno Union Rocket
Droid Starfighter
Geonosian Fighter

Not much to go on. So essentially my point is that there isn't enough material to make a decent stand-alone Space Battle RTS, but to include it as part of a Ground Battle RTS wouldn't do it justice either.

FroZticles
08-28-2004, 09:05 PM
I wish people would stop saying you can turn it on/off........

If you have an idea please follow up and not just say you can turn it off and on.

Admiral Vostok
08-28-2004, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by FroZticles
I wish people would stop saying you can turn it on/off........

If you have an idea please follow up and not just say you can turn it off and on. Couldn't agree with you more on this one, Froz. Some things, like cheats, should be turned off because they don't make the game competitive. Everything else should be on all the time. You can never please everyone, so don't try to do so by having de-activatable features.

swphreak
08-29-2004, 12:19 AM
Amazing how bored I get sometimes... (http://home.comcast.net/~swphreak/Stuff/shiplist.html)

Of course that's just v1.0, coming soon v2.0ptimized! (or not). Unfortunately I don't have my vast home library at my disposal in my dormroom :( so I did my best.

Even with just those ships, I'd play the game... and I'm sure the development teams at LA could come up with enough material in the "Star Wars Ship Database."

Ships from EU
Ships/Class/Type Removed
Observe written text

*Note, I got most ships from the Star Wars Databank @ www.starwars.com

Darth Windu
08-29-2004, 01:27 AM
Well in terms of on/off, this would make the concept work even better. If you want a long-winded, hard-fought game, play with space battles on. If you dont want to bother with it, or you only want a quick game, turn them off. As i said, it is much the same with 'Birth of the Federation' during which you can either control battles or let the computer do it for you.

As for shiplists, at the moment i have-
Confederacy
- Droid Starfighter Squadron
- Geonosian Starfighter Squadron
- Commerce Guild Rocketship
- Trade Federation Battleship

Empire
- TIE Fighter Squadron
- TIE Interceptor Squadron
- TIE Bomber Squadron
- Interdictor Cruiser
- Imperial Star Destroyer

Republic
- V-19 Starfighter Squadron
- Naboo N-1 Starfighter Squadron
- Jedi Starfighter Squadron
- Republic Cruiser (armed)
- Dreadnought
- Republic Assault Ship

Rebellion
- X-wing Squadron
- A-wing Squadron
- Y-wing Squadron
- B-wing Squadron
- Corellian Corvette
- Escort Frigate
- Mon Calamari Cruiser

Naboo
- see Republic. The Naboo are too small to have their own fleet, and hence are part of the Republican forces. In-game they have the same units as the Republic

XBebop
08-29-2004, 02:01 AM
Rebel Alliance-

Capital Ships:
MC40 Cruiser
MC80 Cruiser
MC80b Cruiser
MC-90 Cruiser
C90 Corellian Corvette
Home-One Class

Fighters:
X-Wing
Y-Wing
A-Wing
B-Wing
E-Wing


Galactic Empire-

Capital Ships:
Super Star destroyer
Imperator Mk I Class Star Destroyer
Imperator Mk II Class Star Destroyer
Imperator Mk III Class Star destroyer
Victory Mk I Class Star destroyer
Victory Mk II Class Star Destroyer
Allegiance-Class Star Destroyer
Wermis-Class Star Destroyer
Shockwave-Class Battlecruiser
( The Empire has MANY more capital ships, just naming a few )

Fighters:
TIE l/n ( TIE Fighter )
TIE Interceptor
TIE Advanced Mk I
TIE Advanced Mk II
TIE Advanced Mk III
TIE Advanced Mk IV ( TIE Avenger )
TIE Defender
TIE Bomber
TIE Drone
Shadow Drone
TIE Scimitar
TIE Interdictor
( The Empire has MANY more fighters than this, i'm just naming a few )

lukeiamyourdad
08-29-2004, 02:35 AM
Ok...now do that for the Republic and the Confederacy!

swphreak
08-29-2004, 02:35 AM
Let's see, Home One is an MC-80 Class Mon Calamari Cruiser. The MC-80b might as well be labelled MC-80 since each MonCal cruiser is unique, and it would take up the whole alphabet to give them all designations.

I've never heard of a Mk3 Imperial Star Destroyer. Where did you get that from?

Wermis-Class Star Destroyer
Shockwave-Class Battlecruiser

I've never heard of those either. Are you sure you didn't just get that from someone's mod list? I just googled some of those ships you mentioned, and I think they're made up ships.

After more googling, it seems some of these ships are from comics. I still think some of them are the stupidest ideas ever. I'm trying to keep EU ships to a low for my list. That way, there would hopefully be a wider audience for the game. (yeah yeah, Vostok is rubbing off :p but just you wait, the Vong shall have it's place in the shiplist soon enough)

Windu, that sounds like a total and utter waste of time to even bother with. It would probbaly be better to have them as seperate games, and from a money making perspective, I think LA would do it that way instead of trying to cram a 2 in 1.

Admiral Vostok
08-29-2004, 11:49 AM
Well I still maintain there aren't enough ships to do a stand-alone game. XBebop, you can fill it with all that EU but it will start looking remarkably different to the movies and as such sales will suffer.

Windu, I think your lists are too long for a combined space/ground implementation but too short for a stand-alone game.

swphreak
08-29-2004, 01:09 PM
But if you add some EU units, then it'll be enough. You'll be able to recognize the ships you know, and you'll see a few you've never heard of. It is possible to make a Space RTS. LA has teams at their disposal, I'm sure they could make it work.

I still have more Canon ships than EU in my list.

Darth Windu
08-29-2004, 01:24 PM
Okay, perhaps i should have explained better. The list i presented is not the full list, it's just what i have at the moment. Basically, most of the fighter craft come directly from the Ground Combat part of the game, keeping a link between the two, and then we add the larger ships. I'd be looking at a list of seven units per side, dictated by the number of film Rebel units. To go over that would require adding a lot of EU units, which i really dont want to do.

Phreak - rather than saying it would be a waste of time, it would be far more helpful to me for you to tell me why it would be a waste of time, hence assisting me in correcting the situation.

swphreak
08-29-2004, 03:26 PM
errrr..... Read below THIS post, then read back up here :/


Ah yeah, I remember the Rejuvenator, just never heard of it as the "Mk3."

Windu, I'm thinking more along the lines of money making. I'd rather make two great games and sell a lot, instead of trying to cram 2 in 1 (space/ground) and doing a mediocre job and selling fewer.

DK_Viceroy
08-29-2004, 06:34 PM
The Imperial Mark III is also nsometimes known as the Rejuvenator Class It was under Development By the Battle Of Bastion and the Prototypes were Used In The Battle Of Mon Calamari where they aquitted themselves admirably noticebale detailes about the design where it's raddially decreased crew compliment from at lest 36,000 to somwhere around 5,000 i think. It also boasted a few more sheild generators and in some cases a completly internal redesign.

My sources are my own they are mention in NJO UF and i suspect they will be in the Post NJO Series being released shortly.

Darth Windu
08-29-2004, 07:18 PM
Phreak - i see it a different way. Why make two mediocre games that will probably each sell poorly when we can make one great game, using the whole SW universe, which will appeal to all sorts of players and vastly reduce our development and marketing costs?

FroZticles
08-30-2004, 04:03 AM
Our marketing and development..... Last time I checked you had nothing to do with LA.

DK_Viceroy
08-30-2004, 04:29 AM
I'm personally against each side having millions of space craft maybe in between 10-20 designs.

Admiral Vostok
08-30-2004, 07:40 AM
Originally posted by FroZticles
Our marketing and development..... Last time I checked you had nothing to do with LA. Yes... is there something Windu isn't telling us or has he really become delusional? ;)

Windu, you don't have much of an idea of software development, so I'll tell you that from a marketing perspective, two separate titles is far better than a single title. Projects are funded on a project-by-project basis, which rarely takes the scope of the project into account. So two separate titles will effectively recieve twice the funding and support of a single title.

So this means the two separate titles will be less-likely to be mediocre than the single title, which is trying to cram more stuff in for less budget.

DK_Viceroy
08-30-2004, 12:40 PM
Rarely Vostok if it was a game of a sucessful franchise it would get more funding than a game that isn't part of a franchise, also i think Lucasarts would pour a lot of resources into a Star Wars RTS and if you release two RTS titles those two in essence are competing with each other even though in reality they may not be.

I've always thought certain people on this forum where dellusional not just recently aquired of that condition.

Admiral Vostok
08-30-2004, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by DK_Viceroy
Rarely Vostok if it was a game of a sucessful franchise it would get more funding than a game that isn't part of a franchiseThat's true, I just meant that a combined space/ground Star Wars RTS wouldn't get any more funding than a purely ground or purely space Star Wars RTS.

Darth Windu
08-30-2004, 07:16 PM
I suppose i should start by saying that in my previous post, i was speaking from the perspective of LA, not claiming that i am in any way, shape or form, affiliated with them.

Vostok - again, im going to go ahead and disagree. Consumers will be much more prepared to part with their funds for a single game as opposed to a double, and in terms of re-couping costs and whatnot, you simply create an x-pac at the same time as the original game, then release it a bit later. This also means that the best talent doesnt have to de divided between ground or space RTS', and that gamers will have a more epic feel for the SW universe by being able to control the major aspects of it, rather than one or the other.

Viceroy - i dont know if you noticed or not, but in my template the maximum number of ships, including Starfighter Squadrons, is 7 - not "millions".

Admiral Vostok
08-30-2004, 07:39 PM
Windu, I work in the software industry. I know how it works.

joesdomain
08-30-2004, 08:41 PM
I would want to have this is a space battle map:

Airspeeder or Snowspeeder
X-wings
Y-wings
B-wings
A-wings
E-wings
V-wings
K-wings
Rebel Medium Transport
Rebel Blockade Runners
Mon Calamari Star Cruiser
Millenium Falcon

Tie Fighters
Tie Interceptors
Tie Advanced
Tie Avenger
Tie Bomber
Imperial Lander
Imperial Lambda Class Shuttle
Imperial Class I Star Destroyer
Imperial Class II Star Destroyer
Imperial Super Star Destroyer

That would be a cool game!

DK_Viceroy
08-31-2004, 03:06 AM
Windu when did i say their would be millions of ships.

Did anyone say i needed to obey what someones template says?

Joe wouldn't that be overkill since a super star destroyer could propably beat all of that unless it was overwhelming numbers and some of the capitol ships had sucicdal captains and did a few kamikazees

FroZticles
08-31-2004, 03:34 AM
Vostok- I'm agreeing with Windu on this one I do not want to buy two seperate games. I would choose one or the other. If they were released a couple of years apart then maybe but otherwise I would miss out on one.

I would love to have space and ground all in the one game. If LA can pull it off then that will be the new standard set for all other RTS games.

DK_Viceroy
08-31-2004, 03:46 AM
Even froz agrees with what i said.

2 Star wars RTS games at the same time would be competeing for customers. especially with the console and PC owners since PS2 i think is getting some more supposedly good games as well as X Box i can't speak for those 2 but i certainly know that Gamcubes getting some with Mertoid Prime 2 the New Kick Ass Looking Legend Of Zelda Starfox 2 Which i can't wait to come out since i lover Lylat wars and the starfox for the snes The Curoious Starfox advbentures 2 and Pokemon Leaf Green and Fire Red for Gameboy Advance.

makes this year and next look like the beggining of Nintendo's Grand Franchise Gaming Offensive

UBER OWNAGE.

swphreak
08-31-2004, 07:15 AM
Who said LA would release them at the same time? I don't know if they have enough teams to makem two RTSs at the same time. Besides, it would be a marketing nightmare to do 2 RTS games at th same time.

Admiral Vostok
08-31-2004, 07:38 AM
Yeah, I never said at the same time. Another thing the software industry never does is release two competing products at the same time.

Windu and Froz, I'm not talking about sales to the individual, I'm talking about resource allocation for production of software. A game that's trying to include space battles as well as ground battles will not get anymore resources allocated to make it than if they left out space battles altogether.

Darth Windu
08-31-2004, 07:41 AM
Viceroy - I'm personally against each side having millions of space craft maybe in between 10-20 designs.

Vostok - i still disagree with you

Joe - apart from the utter stupidity of having an AIRspeeder flying through space, your list contains far too much EU material. Some glaring examples are the K-wing, V-wing (which goes against the Rebel gameplay style), E-wing etc. In addition, what possible role would the Medium Transport or Lambda Shuttle perform?

Admiral Vostok
08-31-2004, 07:49 AM
Windu, disagree with me all you want. I write software for a living, I know how the industry works.

DK_Viceroy
08-31-2004, 10:18 AM
Not this argument about to much EU again.

It is compelty brainless to assume after Episode 6 that nothing happens. how many people would say that in WW2 after the battle of kursk nothing happened. it's the same as saying nothing after the battle of endor nothing happened.

Onbviously people mistook me i meant millions of designs and i mean each side should have in between 10-20 designs.

Brainless questions again what else would a shuttle or transport do itn would shuttle or transport forces from planet to planet.

Darth Windu
08-31-2004, 04:35 PM
Viceroy - but we arent trying to set the game 50 years after Episode 6. In my template, the player goes from the Clone Wars until the battle where the Rebels take Coruscant. This is because going too far beond that will alienate the vast majority of game buyers and reduce the overall quality of the game. Therefore, EU rubbish like the E, K and V-wings are irrelevant.

As for the Lambda Shuttle and Medium Transport, when you consider that this thread is about a Space RTT, and i have said that planets will only be for decoration, i would say it's pretty brainless to say that they would transport forces from planet to planet.

FroZticles
09-01-2004, 01:16 AM
Vostok I don't know who you work for but I'm sure you don't have the resources that LA have. If they want to allocate 75% of there resources on an RTS if they knew it would be successful I'm sure they would.

DK_Viceroy
09-01-2004, 04:22 AM
I don't recall this thread being about a sperate game it's called how to get spacebattles in GB2 and a lot of people have far grander ideas than some narrow minded people. I say no names people who take offense at that have poor mental standing.

Darth Windu
09-01-2004, 05:32 AM
Viceroy - you are correct in that this thread is about getting space battles into SWGB2. However, one of the points i was making is that to include a space RTS is far too complex, and also if you are using space forces to transport troopers to planets, that somewhat defeats the purpose in having the ground based RTS.

Admiral Vostok
09-01-2004, 08:22 AM
It is compelty brainless to assume after Episode 6 that nothing happensIt seems Viceroy has a new favourite word to replace "truth". Expect to see "brainless" in just about all Viceroy's posts from now on.

While on the subject of brainless assumptions, I should point out that Star Wars is a story, and not real life. What happens after Romeo and Juliet die? What happens after Alice leaves Wonderland? What heppens when Dorothy is safely back hom in Kansas? No one knows, and for the most part no one cares. That's because these are STORIES, just like Star Wars is a story. What happens before "once upon a time" and after "everyone lives happily ever after" is of no consequence, or it too would be included in the story.

Now, back on topic, I will concur that the thread should move back to discussing space battles in GB2 as opposed to a separate title. I suppose Windu's idea could work, but rather than having the option to "turn it off" there should rather be the option to play a single random map game, or a Conquer the Galaxy type game, with space battles only taking place in the Conquer the Galaxy game.

DK_Viceroy
09-01-2004, 01:20 PM
Or better yet you can select a game mode like Planaterry Combat and Interplanantery combat and depending on which map you select would determine how much space combat their would be.

Vostok surely you know me better than that. i'm insulted if you think i'm that predictable.

FroZticles
09-02-2004, 01:05 AM
Star Wars is far more advanced than any of those movies. If its just a story to you why are you on these forums for like 3 years now?

DK_Viceroy
09-02-2004, 02:16 AM
And Thoust Shallst Hear The Truth From Most Unexpected Places.

Admiral Vostok
09-02-2004, 07:03 AM
Originally posted by FroZticles
Star Wars is far more advanced than any of those movies. If its just a story to you why are you on these forums for like 3 years now? I never said there was anything wrong with it being a story. Why can't I love a story this much? Of course it's a story, what else could it be?

Or do you think Star Wars is real? :eyeraise:

Darth Windu
09-02-2004, 07:24 AM
In this regard i agree with Vostok. Star Wars is not onl a story, it is more specifically the story of Anakin Skywalker and the events occuring around him. The six films chrocile Anakin's entry as a iJedi, his fall from power and subsequent return to the light side to save the life of his son. Therefore, after RotJ there is no more story to tell. Certainly the people and the events keep rolling on, but in regards to the core of SW it is completely and utterly unimportant.

DK_Viceroy
09-02-2004, 07:42 AM
That is merely your opinion as to the core of SW do not purport to claim it as fact I think the Core Of star Wars is the Galactic Turmoil and the fall and rise of the jedi

Admiral Vostok
09-02-2004, 09:09 AM
Of course it is merely our opinion. Though the fact it is exactly the same as the opinion of George Lucas, the creator of Star Wars, should not be ignored.

DK_Viceroy
09-02-2004, 10:28 AM
I would be fascinated to see where he says this.

If you are obsessed with that argument then you could easily say that makes EU increadibly important because of the aftermath of Anakin SKywalkers Actions and what Happens to his Offspring and their off spring.

lukeiamyourdad
09-02-2004, 11:33 AM
I'm sure he said somewhere that Star Wars was about the story of Anakin Skywalker.

I'll have to search for it.

Admiral Vostok
09-02-2004, 12:35 PM
Here's a Question and Answer from the Ask The Jedi Council section of www.starwars.com. It isn't the exact quote I was thinking of, but it's pretty close. The quote I was thinking of referred to Lucas' story as being about Anakin Skywalker rather than the Skywalker family as a whole like this article suggests.
Q: Did George Lucas ever have any idea for Episodes VII to IX, or did the Star Wars novels stomp all over possible thoughts he may have had for the Star Wars universe past the destruction of the Empire?

A: At one point early on, George Lucas talked of possibly needing nine movies to tell his tale of the Skywalker family. But as he actually worked through the story line, he realized long ago that the story he wanted to tell could naturally be told in six two-hour films. The nine-episode mantra, however, refuses to die...and we realize, never will. But George says that the story he has to tell will be complete in the six films, which can then be viewed as one epic saga. He says that he honestly has no story to tell now beyond the destruction of the second Death Star.



If you are obsessed with that argument then you could easily say that makes EU increadibly important because of the aftermath of Anakin SKywalkers Actions and what Happens to his Offspring and their off spring.No, because it is about Anakin Skywalker himself.

DK_Viceroy
09-02-2004, 12:38 PM
Yes it says HE has no story to tell but others do. Star Wars is now bigger than what Geroge lucas started off He gave the primordial ooze a quick jab and it's come to life and is bigger than him and all the authors who help nurture it.

Admiral Vostok
09-02-2004, 12:41 PM
But it's HIS story! If HE has nothing more to tell, there IS no story!

DK_Viceroy
09-02-2004, 12:55 PM
RRRRRRRRRIIIIIIGGGGGGGGGHHHHTTTTT.

Nurse We have another one who's being sniffing the glue for too long.

Admiral Vostok
09-02-2004, 01:03 PM
Good comeback. :rolleyes: You could just admit defeat, you know.

DK_Viceroy
09-02-2004, 01:06 PM
I keep fighting even when the final nail was hammered into the coffin half an hour ago.

How many people could say J.K.Rowling has Harry potter under control that kind of exploded outwards in waves of popularity.

Admiral Vostok
09-02-2004, 01:13 PM
Not sure what JK Rowling has to do with anything, but answer this: once Rowling has finished writing the seventh book of Harry Potter, do you think the world would accept anyone else stepping in to write about Harry's adventures after graduating from Hogwarts? I don't; the story will end with the seventh book, Voldemort will be defeated once and for all, and everyone will live happily ever after. Anyone else that tries to write about Harry Potter is just a second rate author who can't think up their own Universes jumping on the popularity band wagon. I feel the same about EU.

DK_Viceroy
09-02-2004, 01:20 PM
Oh Yee Of Narrow Mind I Condem You To The Fate Of Tantalus By the Power of Styx and the 7 rivers in Hades.

Admiral Vostok
09-02-2004, 05:08 PM
Well since Viceroy has descended into gibberish I claim this argument won in the name of Purism!

Nairb Notneb
09-02-2004, 06:22 PM
(I think this has gotten a little off topic but I want to get it on this) Well, to take the Clintonian approach to this argument, to determine who is correct, it depends on what you mean by "story" for the EU to be important to GL. You are both correct. I mostly agree with the Purist Vostok, that the EU is not important to GL, but, when one watches the "behind the scenes" and the "making of" type videos of SW, GL always makes every decision based on tons of little details that only he is aware of. GL has his own EU in his head, like the Jedi braid for example. If you watch the making of TPM GL says that the side of the head that the braid goes on is important because it means something, but he doesn't say what. Also many of the characters that he puts into the movies are sometimes based on EU characters, or sometimes they turn into EU characters.

GL has said that the story he wants to tell is of Anakin Skywalker's life and nothing else, all of the other stuff is eye candy and murchandising. So, Vostok is right, the EU is not important to the story GL has to tell.

BUT, the EU is important to GL because it also generates the little details that he is addicted to. Plus it generates more books, games and comics (not to mention hits to forums like this). It also helps keep an interest in the SW universe for a lot of people.

So, in short, the EU is not important to the story of Anakin Skywalker the whole point to the Star Wars movie saga, but the EU has helped to keep the interest in it alive and has helped to fuel it financially. They both serve GL, the true living Force.

Nairb Notneb
09-02-2004, 06:46 PM
LA has already made a space RTS, it was called Rebellion (Supremacy in the UK). I played it for years. It was very basic, with resources, research and characters. You had to explore space to find new planets, build factories and planetary defenses. There were ground based troops but all they were, were attack and defense numbers. If your attacking numbers were higher than the defense numbers of defending forces you won the battle. It had all of the ships from the movies and filled in the gaps with EU vessels. There was a mod made for it where you can change everything in it even the planets. The best thing was making a Death Star and blowing up the planets that revolted against you when you played as the Empire. You could also send your characters on assassination missions, which was cool. I still have it, but haven't played it in a long time. The mod is great because I made myself into a character, a Jedi, a moff, a stormtrooper, etc.

Darth Windu
09-02-2004, 08:28 PM
Viceroy - a smal piece of advice: a closed mouth gather no feet.

Getting back to the point, i still think that a space RTT is the best way to have the best of both worlds, ground and space battles, in a single game.

swphreak
09-02-2004, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by Nairb Notneb
LA has already made a space RTS, it was called Rebellion (Supremacy in the UK).

Actually, I don't consider that a space RTS. That's more of a TBS game than RTS.

DK_Viceroy
09-02-2004, 11:49 PM
You also HAVE to look at EU to understand parts of the films, Like What Makes Nerf Herder an insult to a pilot who flies a ship that has speed and capability equal to or greater than the latest starfighter. and that is the steady slow rocking motion of a nerf herding repulsorlift that requires no skill at all, that insult invokes very potent mental imagery.

FroZticles
09-03-2004, 04:07 AM
Vostok and Windu hate to burst your bubble but since Lucas isn't planning on making episode 7-9 he stated "EU has the rest of the story pretty much covered" If he did not care about EU to generate much more profit and continuing profit after the movies are over then why did he sell it in the first place.

Admiral Vostok
09-03-2004, 05:52 AM
No Froz, you misunderstand. Lucas does care about the money EU brings in. But he does not care about the content of EU. Lucas allowed the EU to exist so he would get more money, not so his story could be expanded upon.

Viceroy, we don't need the EU to help us understand that "nerf herder" is derrogatory. That's a given from the context. The same with "echuta". At any rate I don't think you can viably argue that the deeper meanings behind nerf herder have anything to do with the story.

Back on topic: indeed Rebellion was a fun game, although it took SO LONG to play. I'd class it as an RTS, though it is quite different to what I think we're talking about here.

FroZticles
09-03-2004, 09:59 PM
Well how do you explain him saying that EU will cover the rest of HIS story......

DK_Viceroy
09-04-2004, 05:41 AM
Actually it does when you remeber George Loves the little details.

Even i haven't heard that but i can quite easily beleive that.

Admiral Vostok
09-04-2004, 07:06 AM
Originally posted by FroZticles
Well how do you explain him saying that EU will cover the rest of HIS story...... Where did you get that from? I've never heard anything like that... in fact what with his rejection of Boba Fett's resurrection and Chewbacca's death, evidence points to quite the opposite.

Nairb Notneb
09-07-2004, 09:47 AM
In order to have a full range of planetary ground combat and outer space combat combined in one success seamless game, a player must be able to get to both playing mediums simultaneously because combat could possibly be happening at both places at the same time. Maybe combat is limited to one planet at a time and you have a split screen or a hot key toggle switch that will "flip" you from one mode (space combat to ground combat) to the other. This could be cumbersome and confusing. Or possibly the map simply scrolls through the atmosphere to outer space to the combat area, but in space you really need a 3-d world to be a truly great game. I just don't see how combining the two together would work seamlessly. But separately they would be great games. They work in different worlds that don't work well together, in my opinion. It would be great to build a fleet of SD's and bombard a rebel stronghold, to send in a landing party, take out their shields, ion cannon and then annihilate them from above. Or, to even build the Death Star and fire that green laser at those Rebel scum's and obliterate the planet that they are on and see each and every worker and building explode from underneath! Oh, and Rebellion is a RTS style game.

DK_Viceroy
09-07-2004, 10:01 AM
It could be done easily in terms of flicking from one to another different menus could be accessed using the F keys

F1 Go to surface of selected Planet

F2 Go To space

F3 Reserach and development

F4 Chat

F5 Diplomacy

F6 Galactic Map { could be used to order fleets around }

F7 List Of All Units { Sorted on type and so on }

A similar system works on Imperium Galactica 2 and that is certainly not clunky i'd say it's a great game certainly the best combined ground sapce RTS out there.

Darth Windu
09-08-2004, 12:01 AM
Or of course we could just do it the easy way and do both seperately...

DK_Viceroy
09-08-2004, 12:32 AM
That's not actually related to the topic this is a topic on HOW WE INCLUDE space battles in SWGB2, I really do think everybody should try Imperium Galactica 2 it's a really good game and is a Space RTS with Ground Elements and for SWGB2 that can work in reverse a Ground RTS with Space Elements.

Darth Windu
09-09-2004, 02:56 AM
Viceroy - i havent played Imperial Galactica so i dont know what you are taling about. Would you be able to explain in a bit more detail or provide a link?

DK_Viceroy
09-09-2004, 08:50 AM
Unfortunatly Digital Reality has gone out of buisness because they disappointed to many people by not releasing IG3 for ages so naturally there is no one to maintain the site and while it is an excellent game and has a cult following sites on it are as rare as hens teeth


however one reveiwer quoted it as


It mixes in the strategy of Starcraft, with the space battling of homeworld. It mixes the planet construction of SimCity, with the tank battles of Ground Control. It is really hard to classify this game as any particular type, because it feels like so many different games in one

Here are some reviews of it i may later on while doing this reply find a site

http://www.pcgameworld.com/review.php/id/154/Imperium_Galactica_II_-_Alliances/


http://www.avault.com/reviews/review_temp.asp?game=igal2

http://www.tts.lt/~valera/games/games/im2/ That one is in russian but it has some pictures including some even i haven't seen yet but then you could play the campaigns a hundred times over and they'd be very different every time.

http://www.gonegold.com/gguide/impgalactica2.shtml this one has very good stuff and if you ever buy it which i highly reccomend as highly as you have reccomended Starcraft to me you should check this when you get it since it has patches and the patch that enables a skirmish mode.

http://web.tiscali.it/echoweb/

That one has a bucket load of information but you can find an eglish version of it and Babelfish could translate somethings.

I think if Lucasarts looked at IG2 they could see a good way to implement both It is an EXCELLENT while yes you can't control fighters that could quite easily be adapted and make it star warsy by each ship deploying fighters and you click on the ship and can acees it's starfighter command and set targets which could cut down on Micro. It's a very easy to use system and you can litteraly dive into it. It has it's fault like all game but there are so many good things that you never really realise them unless someone else points out the faults one thing that propably couldn't be carried over is the Music elemt but i suppose some star wars music could be adapted but i don't think the effect would be the same. This could easily be used as a starting point but give the ground battles a bit more importance over space battles and tweak the buidling system a bit to make the civs more unique.

swphreak
09-10-2004, 07:52 AM
I remember trying to play that demo a while back. It would install, but not run (even in differnet compatibility modes).