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Admiral Vostok
09-03-2004, 05:37 AM
That's right, once again I've updated my design for the next Star Wars RTS. I'm pretty happy with this one, I really feel it will play a lot like how we see the battles in the movies. I said in the IRC room I was getting rid of most of the ripped-off ideas: that's true for the most part, though a couple still remain which I just couldn't do without.

Here's a list of some of the changes I've made:

Unique ways of advancing through Classifications for each faction
Unique ways to heal and repair units
Unique methods of employing Shields and Shield Generators
Unique methods of building construction and special building abilities
A whole lot more uniqueness (I may have gone overboard in making each civ very different)
A cleaned up resource system so it isn't as much of an ordeal to gather resources
Descriptions of the different modes of play involving minor factions
... and more!


For the most part the Overview page and the Unit Classes page are pretty much the same. Any difference in them will be picked up through reading the Faction Outlines. So here's a direct link to each of the Factions, including the Minor Factions:
Galactic Empire (http://vostok.150m.com/GalacticEmpire.html)
Galactic Republic (http://vostok.150m.com/GalacticRepublic.html)
Rebel Alliance (http://vostok.150m.com/RebelAlliance.html)
Separatist Movement (http://vostok.150m.com/SeparatistMovement.html)
Minor Factions (http://vostok.150m.com/MinorFactions.html)

DK_Viceroy
09-04-2004, 04:35 AM
Not bad but I still think the Geonosians should still be in the confederacy, especialy since the Geonosian Nantex Fighter wwas easily better than the Droid Starfighter and i can imagine that unless some radical upgrading has been done i can quite easily imagine that they've become obsolete since it's been at least ten years since they were deployed, especially since we don't know when they were designed they could have been designed 5 years before naboo which would make them increadibly obsolete.

Darth Windu
09-04-2004, 05:04 AM
Viceroy - a few points need to be made here.

1. The Geonosians are NOT part of the Confederacy. As i have explained before, they are simply arms manufacturers and only fought the Republic because their world was being invaded.

2. The 'Nantex' fighter is pure EU and hence irrelevant.

3. The Naboo still use the N-1 which is at least 10 years as well, so what's your point? I should also point out that, in the real world, many aircraft go on for decades. Take for example the B-52, the design, althoug improved, is abouit 50 years old but still in front-line service. The F-14, F-15 and F-16 are also a few decades old each - in fact the F-14 first saw service in Vietnam. Therefore, it does not matter how old the Droid Starfighter is, only that it works.


Vostok - just lookingat your site, might just be me but im having problems accessing the Seperatists, Empire and Minor Civs.

Admiral Vostok
09-04-2004, 05:31 AM
My decision to not include the Geonosians are as follows:

REALISM REASONS
1. Reworking what Windu has said, while they probably are a part of the Separatists and Confederacy, they would not deploy their military forces in campaigns. If the Separatists were to fight on any other world other than Geonosis, it is unlikely that Geonosians would be deployed. Droids are much better in the minds of the Separatist leaders: cheaper, more efficient, and repairable.

2. As Windu also hinted at, they only fought on Geonosis because it was their planet, in the same way that the Naboo fought to defend their planet. This is underlined by the fact there were no actual Geonosian units in the Battle of Geonosis.

GAMEPLAY REASONS
3. The Separatists already have pretty much all their bases covered with droid units. Perhaps the only exception would be Geonosian Fighters, which are superior to Droid Starfighters, but the fact remains they still do essentially the same job and with the Droid Starfighter being cheaper and more expendable, they are the logical choice for the money-minded Separatists.

4. The Geonosians by themselves have enough units to make an admirable Minor Faction, so that's where I thought they would be better served. So in a way, they are a part of the Confederacy: in the campaigns you'd have access to both the Separatists and the Geonosians when recreating the Battle of Geonosis.



Windu, which links are you using? Use the ones I posted above, as there may be some weirdness with the hyperlinks between the pages within the site that I'll need to fix up.

DK_Viceroy
09-04-2004, 06:50 AM
I'll dismiss windu's warbling as Irrelevent after stating one fact. the Nantex Fighter is not EU in case you didn't notice the Fighters that were chasing fater Anakin and Obi Wan's Gunship, those are NANTEX class fighters.

Vostok how about we wait and see until episode three If we see Nantex fighters being used by the donfederacy then you'll propably accept that. But i will put one point forward now, A sheilded fighter with larger range and better speed and slightly less manoeuverability piloted by an organic versus a bit cheaper More manoeverable short range un sheilded fighter Droid Fighter. I'd say the Nantex would win out so the seperatists would propably pay out a bit extra for a fighter that has a better chance of coming back in one piece. it's swings and roundabouts whatever way you look at it really.

May I also add that we only saw a fraction of the battle. we may see flashbacks or someone talking about the battle in ep 3

Admiral Vostok
09-04-2004, 07:23 AM
Well if you won't accept my realism reasons, at least accept my gameplay reasons. At any rate, I think they work better as a Minor Faction. Don't forget you can still have them fight alongside the Confederacy in a game: here's how (http://vostok.150m.com/Overview.html#NeutralTowns).

Even if we do see Geonosian Fighters in Episode III, I still think they Geonosians are different enough to warrant their own minor civ, and as such the Geonosian Fighter should belong to them and not the Separatists. We may hear someone talking about the Battle of Geonosis, but it's unlikely, and I can 100% guarantee we will not see a flashback. The reason for this is that Lucas has filmed the movies in a very distinct style reminiscent of classic Hollywood, and flashbacks are not a part of that style. You'll never see a flashback or hear a voice-over narration in a Star Wars movie.

I've repaired all the links on my site, so it should work now. I've also added in some bits I'd missed.

DK_Viceroy
09-04-2004, 07:51 AM
that's actually given me an idea instead of picking a secondary commander you select an ally so as the Confederacy you could pick Generl Grevious and the Geonosians would make for some very interesting gameplay.

Admiral Vostok
09-04-2004, 08:06 AM
That's pretty much the idea I posted in the other thread, isn't it?

DK_Viceroy
09-04-2004, 08:12 AM
It's hard to remember too many ideas flying around and not enough substance to them or somebody who loves them one day decides to hate them the next, This place makes Westminister seem sane and normal some people here should be politicans since opinions here change as much as politicians do.

Admiral Vostok
09-04-2004, 08:24 AM
Well I posted the idea not 3 days ago, I wouldn't think it's that hard to remember. It wasn't under-developed either. Here's the link to refresh your memory:
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1618182#post1618182

But let's move back to the ideas in my current design, shall we?

Darth Windu
09-04-2004, 07:48 PM
Viceroy - ah, so you are unable to disprove what i said, and therefore admit defeat. A good decision i must say.

As for the 'Nantex' thingy, if you wanted to use the actualy film designation, they are 'Geonosian Starfighters', not 'Nantex' fighters. Get it right.

Having said that, there are a few points as to why the Geonosians, including their fighters, would not fight as part of the Confederacy

1. Organic units (not including Clones) are in very limited supply, especially from a single planet. Therefore, one disaster leaves the Confed's without their Geonosians.

2. Same goes for the Fighter. It may well be superior, the film doesnt state one way or the other, but there would never be anywhere near enough Geonosian Starfighters to be able to take on the Republic, therefore Droids are used, while the Geonosian Starfighters are used for the Planetary defence of Geonosis.

Admiral Vostok
09-05-2004, 06:27 AM
Does anyone have anything to say about my new design or is this one perfect?

DarthMuffin
09-05-2004, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok
Does anyone have anything to say about my new design or is this one perfect?

Here! :wavey: I have somthing to say!

It looks great to me. I only have a small comment on the heroes.

For the Jedi/Sith Heroes : I think the Vader power is too powerful, considering what are Luke and Obi's powers. Dooku could be kind of too powerful too, but Vader can really upset the balance. Unless, of course, the penalties are really small.

The other types look good.

And last but not least : I'm really happy to see that I'm not the only guy who thinks that having more than 4 civs is a stupid idea.

Good work :)

Admiral Vostok
09-05-2004, 07:25 AM
Well the penalties will all be balanced, so they may end up being small. Don't forget I also haven't specified how large the radius around Vader is - it could be quite small and as such less powerful than you're thinking.
And last but not least : I'm really happy to see that I'm not the only guy who thinks that having more than 4 civs is a stupid idea.I don't have more than 4 civs. Minor Factions don't count as they're not balanced like the Major Factions.

DarthMuffin
09-05-2004, 07:27 AM
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok
Well the penalties will all be balanced, so they may end up being small. Don't forget I also haven't specified how large the radius around Vader is - it could be quite small and as such less powerful than you're thinking.
I don't have more than 4 civs. Minor Factions don't count as they're not balanced like the Major Factions.

For Vader : Forgot about the radius... oops

And I wasn't sarcastic :) I don't care about minor civs, so for me you only have 4 civs.

Good job!

Admiral Vostok
09-05-2004, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by Darth54
And I wasn't sarcastic :) I don't care about minor civs, so for me you only have 4 civs.Right, sorry, I misread your comment. For some reason I thought you were saying more than four civs is good, but I wasn't taking your comment as sarcasm. I just read wrong. Glad you like it!

FroZticles
09-05-2004, 10:42 PM
Ok hate to break up this love fest but no template is perfect....

Lets go...

Empire

1-Don't like the slave as there worker, imperials like t have things in control and having rebellious slaves holding there organisation together could be devestating in the end. Not every Imperial like anyways.

2-Explain your heroes more is that all Vader can do is promote fear? No saber?

3-Blast doors sounds very forced change the name or remove the ability altogether. Can your units enter buildings? If not then whats the point of having them.

4- Units seem really thinned. Add more or add something

Republic

1-Jedi using the force to advance is not very Jedi-like plus Palpy would not would the Jedi to have such ties with the Clone army in the first place. The jedi are not the base for the Republic military. Seems to Greek AoM to me.

2-Padme as a republic hero.... No way!!!

3-Having moveable buildings could be very overpowering. Especially since the forward command can build any structure and deploy it right at the front line.

4- Why is the Assult ship a base? You've based everything on the Battle of Geonosis even though I'm sure they have bases throughout the galaxy once episode 3 starts.

Rebels

1-This is micro management to the max!!!

2- Reduce all those resource carts into one

3-Rebels will be the weakest faction in the game. Once a player gets good AA game over. Since you don't include space battles this leaves Rebels with the shortest straw...

Confed

1- The Battle Droids are Trade Federation property. Except SBD which are the Unions better design


2-Why can't droid starfighter attack air while in walker mode...

3-Returning to orbit should not return resources. It could however be a safe haven and be called back down. But to prevent it being exploited it would have to have a timer before being recalled.

Thats all I feel like writing.... I'll find other stuff later....

Darth Windu
09-06-2004, 12:35 AM
Vostok - i still find your template lacking. While there are certainly good aspects to it, such as the concept of using the Dropship as the Republic's worker unit, you still have absolutely horrible parts, like tech levels.

One thing about the new template i really didnt like was the inclusion of the Republic Assault Ship as a structure. It's a good idea, but it is unrealistic, because it must be really under-powered and minaturised, and it doesnt seem to add anything to gameplay.

FroZticles
09-06-2004, 03:19 AM
I agree with Windu about the assult ship, also the lacking of units.

I don't agree with him trashing tech levels just because he doesn't include them into his template.

DK_Viceroy
09-06-2004, 03:49 AM
Vostok's template isn't that bad for all the flamer lamers to rear their heads, besides he doesn't use tech levels he uses some quasi Minor God system. Personally i think it fits for how his template goes while i disagree about some things in the confederacy the rest on the whole is good.

:bdroid2: Flamer Lamers Go Home Or Get Attacked By My Droids:bdroid2:

Admiral Vostok
09-06-2004, 11:05 AM
Viceroy: No I use Tech Levels, not a quasi-Minor-God system. My Classification system is just a more Star-Warsy name. And Windu, Tech Levels are a necessity for any decent game with powerful late-game units.

Froz, thanks for the criticism. Addressing your issues:
Empire
1. You might be right on the slave point. The more I think about it the more it's an EU notion that doesn't really make sense anymore. I shall amend it.
2. Heroes are explained fully in the Unit Classes section.
3. Obviously you haven't seen the movies if you think the notion of Blast Doors is forced.
4. I think there are enough units, but as I also wrote elsewhere in the document the unit list is not complete, as I've only included canon units and units that were obviously needed. I don't think we need hundreds of different units, there are very successful RTS games out there already with a similar number to what I've got.

Republic
1. They aren't "using the Force to advance", it represents the will of the Jedi Council, as they are ultimately the leaders of the army. I'm not sure what you mean about Palpatine not allowing the Jedi with the Clones - clearly the Jedi are the commanders of the Clones, hence "General Kenobi". I can see how it might be a little similar to the Greeks, but it is quite different at the same time.
2. Why not? There isn't a better person anyway.
3. Moveable buildings has worked in plenty of other games. Don't worry - they aren't deployed instantly, and in fact for balance they would probably take longer to deploy than for another civ's worker to build a building. Don't forget you can't increase the build speed with multiple workers like you can for the other civs.
4. The scale may be a bit off but so are all RTS game buildings. It makes perfect sense since that's what we see in the movies.

Rebels
1. Please explain.
2. I felt the need to build different resource carts would balance the fact that they are mobile.
3. Not true. You are still thinking in terms of SWGB1, where there are dedicated anti-air units. My design doesn't really work the same. Besides, my air-whoring works for the Naboo in SWGB1, so Rebel air whoring would work just as well in this. Also, it is important to note that the Rebels have some of the most flexible troops in the game, so their lack of powerful Mechs won't really be a problem.

Separatists
1. Actually every organisation in the Separatists has their own Battle Droids, they aren't unique to the Trade Federation.
2. Because it can't angle it's guns up.
3. I see it being used in kind of a similar way to the Rebel's Evacuate ability. If you're under heavy attack, you escape, and you get some of the resources back rather than lose the whole lot when the building is destroyed. Keeping track of ships in orbit would be too complicated and unnecessary.

DK_Viceroy
09-06-2004, 11:11 AM
as much as i like level systems, the C&C series has done fine without them and they have plenty of powerful late game units

Admiral Vostok
09-06-2004, 11:15 AM
But the reason it works with the C&C Series is that they've got semi-generic buildings. Since the tech-tree is based on what buildings you've built, everyone is pretty much balanced. When you go into unique buildings like my system, the tech-tree idea doesn't work quite as well so tech levels are needed (such as in WarCraft 3).

DK_Viceroy
09-06-2004, 11:27 AM
RA2 wasn't all that Generic Tiberian Sun I will concede as Semi Generic but I'd say RA2 was pretty unique

Admiral Vostok
09-06-2004, 11:29 AM
RA2 wasn't unique. They still both had command centers, power buildings, barrack buildings, war factory buildings, etc. They had some unique buildings, it's true, but so does Generals. The Tech Tree is usually not based on these unique buildings, however.

DK_Viceroy
09-06-2004, 11:34 AM
When You Played it each side seems unqiue true they had analogues for some things but no matter what you say to me I still say C&C RA2:YR is propably the best game going propably just as good as this infamous starcraft.

Someone please dish out a URL for Starcraft i'd like to see what the fuss is about.

lukeiamyourdad
09-06-2004, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by DK_Viceroy

Someone please dish out a URL for Starcraft i'd like to see what the fuss is about.

http://www.cdmag.com/articles/023/149/starcraft.html

I can't post a link about it, but in Korea, the best StarCraft players are like movie stars.

Admiral Vostok
09-06-2004, 07:04 PM
They might have seemed unique but they really weren't. Not in the same way my design's factions are unique. StarCrafts factions were unique in the same way as mine, and so were WarCraft 3's to an extent. As such I guess building uniqueness isn't a justification for tech levels as I said previously, since only the Zerg had a tech-level like system. However I like the tech-level system, there certainly isn't anything wrong with it, so I'm keeping it in my design.

For StarCraft you could also check out the official site:
http://www.blizzard.com/starcraft/

DK_Viceroy
09-07-2004, 01:51 AM
Though I think the Priority Level system seems more realistic and more star warsy.

I think the only Vaguely Generic Units were early infantry and the fact they both needed miner however both are different and unique

Darth Windu
09-07-2004, 01:58 AM
Vostok - I bag Tech Levels because i dont like them, which is the reason they arent in my template. They are old, clunky and unnecessary. Rather than using the C&C system, i replaced tech levels with my research, so that it becomes more fluid and realistic. This way, powerful units are still late game, you still have to invest funds to access them, but you dont have instant changes and your buildings/units dont change in terms of art.

DK_Viceroy
09-07-2004, 02:01 AM
Windu please put either an excerpt or a link to the part in your Template where it says that, It does have improved Naigation but it's painful to find anything you want in that thing it's still as clunky as you describe Tech levels.

I think that if the system were tweaked it could give the idea a whole new lease of life that's why I came u with the Idea of priority levels because it's more realistic and is more streamlined.

Admiral Vostok
09-07-2004, 07:20 AM
I know you hate Tech Levels Windu, though I like your RoN rip-off even less. Having multiple levels like that worked for RoN because the game progressed through several different ages. I don't think it will work as well for Star Wars since there don't need to be that many levels. You also say you've addressed the issue of too many levels by allocating resources to research... I really hate that because you don't have to think at all. In fact, most of the ideas I don't like in your template relate to the fact you can switch off your brain and still use them. Maybe it's just me, but I like to actually think in a RTS.

Instead of "old, clunky and unnecessary", I see a Tech Level system as proven, straight-forward and necessary.

Viceroy, I was under the impression the "Priority System" was similar to the Tech Level system... if not please explain it again.

EDIT: I felt I should also point out that one of the advantages of the Tech Level system is that it lends itself well to faction uniqueness. All of my factions advance through Classification (Tech Levels) in different ways. The reason it works well is because the Tech Level system is well-known and widely used, so people can instantly understand it without concerning themselves with the differences between civs. It is also fundamental and straight-forward, so difference between civs are easy to implement without making the concept overly complicated.

Also, when it comes down to it, I believe my Classifications system is very Star-Warsy, and to me that is very important.

DK_Viceroy
09-07-2004, 11:01 AM
Priority Levels it would fit in under large scale battles with the galaxy being at war. Each sides high command would transmit the designs and advanced research projects each time you increased the priority level due to increased need on the battle filed. It would be done by transmitting VIA an Uplink Center that would require engineers to operate. The cost of upgrading priority levels would be used to upgrade the uplink center to be able to receve the information quickly without it being intercepted by enemis on the battefiled.


That has been taken directly from my thread that had the war with Pezzy i wonder where he is maybe under a rock somewhere or lying in hospital with a tag tied round his toe

anyway though i've been coming up with a few ideas for how you a secondary way to using resources to go up the priority levels that could discourage turtling. With each unit you kill you could decrease the cost of upgrading the antenna array. if you kill enough you could get it for free, you'd propably have to have a huge slog though. Also each side's transmission array would be unique with each having a different ability like the rebels could use thiers to hack into an enemy command center and steal their maps so you could see what the enemy sees for a while this would of course have a recharge, this could also be used on buidlings to see what they are researching or buidling. The confederacies could be upgradded to receive credits from The Banking clan, The Republic could upgrade theirs to have reinforcements of random composition shiiped in every once and a while. and the empire could use theirs to call in an orbital bombardment with a large cool down time perhaps it could be used during a battle or just before a battle to knock out a few units, it would of course decimater any air units since generaly Turbolasers go trhough the Sheilds posessed by starfighters.

I've got loads of ideas on how to do it. also since it's done at a transmission array you can still make workers and the like but also it would propably disable the use of any superweapons or abilities should we have them in the game. Also you would need to supply it with increasing amounts of energy to the extent of it needing a power generation facility to itself however the power requirements would diminsh back to normal after you have attained aq higher priority and you could also overcharge the array to boost any abilities you get from it.

I'll leave it at that for the moment.

Admiral Vostok
09-07-2004, 11:20 AM
So it's basically a Tech Level system that's been tweaked a little?

DK_Viceroy
09-07-2004, 12:11 PM
Well more than tweaked since you'd propably need to create Slicers or Technicains to man the array and there'd be a couple of other tweak but i considfer it different because it's not reserached at a command center it has it's own deicated buidling it requires large amounts power and it needs to be manned by increasing numbers of technicians or Slicers.

But the essense is similar

Though remeber there is the chance to actually fight for a higher priority level where you can get if for free, it might even make a good idea for a mode where you have to fight for a higher priority level it would certainly encourage action filled games. and by game mode i mean like we have kill the commander DM and RM and the likes in that league not the hit switch turn off gish

Admiral Vostok
09-07-2004, 01:04 PM
Sounds alright, though a little complex. Not that complexity is necessarily a bad thing; perhaps advancing could become more of a focus this way.

I like the fighting-for-advance concept, in fact it's pretty much what the Rebels do in my design to Advance.

Here's a summary of the different ways of Advancing in my design for more detailed discussion:

Galactic Empire: Traditional Tech Level-style advancement. The Empire has to spend resources to advance to the next Classification just like civs in SWGB do. However the Empire can also chose to put additional resources in; while the Advance is being researched (ie they have selected the button to Advance), another button appears. Every time this second button is clicked, 100 Credits are spent to speed the Advancing process.

Galactic Republic: The Republic essentially has a fourth resource: The Force. The more Jedi Temples and Jedi the Republic has, the more the Force is with them, and they "spend" the Force to Advance. Note this doesn't, as Froz thought, mean they "use the Force" to advance; what it means is that the more the Force is strong with a particular base, the more the Jedi Council will be inclined to advance the base to the next Classification.

Rebel Alliance: A Rebel base's advancing relies on "Support". Support is not really another resource like The Force is for the Republic, but it needs to be accumulated to a certain level before the Advance can be researched. Once the base has recieved enough Support, the button to Advance becomes available, and the advance costs resources as normal. Support can be accumulated mostly through fighting; the more fighting the Rebels do, the faster their Support grows. This makes them suited to quick hit-and-fade strikes to keep their economy going, which is exactly what the Rebels should be like. Important buildings and Heroes also increase Support, and the more area uncovered from scouting will increase all trickles of Support.

Separatists: The Separatists don't use the Classification system like the other factions, instead their bases grow depending on the number of Separatist Organisations that have an interest in the base's success. The Corporate Alliance, Commerce Guild and Trade Federation all need to be persuaded to join the base. Instead of each organisation being an equivalent to a Classification, the organisations can be persuaded to join in any order. For example, if you wanted access to some of the Trade Federation units, you'd persuade them first. However, some units and technologies require two or sometimes all three organisations to have joined, so that a Separatist player won't be able to get access to the advance techs straight away by persuading the relevant organisation to join first.


If anyone is confused about how any of these work, let me know and I'll try and explain it better and provide some examples.

DarthMuffin
09-07-2004, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok


Separatists: The Separatists don't use the Classification system like the other factions, instead their bases grow depending on the number of Separatist Organisations that have an interest in the base's success. The Corporate Alliance, Commerce Guild and Trade Federation all need to be persuaded to join the base. Instead of each organisation being an equivalent to a Classification, the organisations can be persuaded to join in any order. For example, if you wanted access to some of the Trade Federation units, you'd persuade them first. However, some units and technologies require two or sometimes all three organisations to have joined, so that a Separatist player won't be able to get access to the advance techs straight away by persuading the relevant organisation to join first.


This is pure gold, IMO. Best idea I've heard since a long time. Fits with the SW theme too.

The others are nice too. And having unique advancement for each civ is really great. Balancing would be really difficult, however.

I'm not sure about "The Force" concept for the republic though. At least it fits with the rep theme.

lukeiamyourdad
09-07-2004, 06:20 PM
The Rebels would also require lots of rushing from the player. If you're not a good rusher...

Darth Windu
09-07-2004, 11:11 PM
Viceroy -
Research – divided into 3 categories (Military, Civic, and Economic) with credits invested in each, technology will be automatically researched with new tech’s becoming available gradually, research is faster if more credits are invested Credits invested in way of percentage of funds, with that percentage being added to research every time more credits are added to your total.

Military Research gives player access to new units, and increases the speed, armour and firepower of all units. Advanced Options divide Military Research into three sections: Infantry, Mechs and Aircraft with the player able to define investment in each mini-category

Civic Research extends player’s borders, and increases the Population Cap in small blocks to a maximum of 600. Advanced Options divide Civic into two sections: Population Cap and Borders, with the player able to define investment in each mini-category

Economic Research makes collecting resources fast and more efficient, generating Credit’s faster, this research also defines the number and frequency of neutral cargo ships that visit your spaceport, and hence how many credit’s your spaceport generates. Advanced Options divides Economic into two sections, Advanced Economy and Free Trade. Advanced Economy increases the rate of, and efficiency of, resource collection, while Free Trade attracts more cargo ships to your spaceports


Vostok - actually your system is more of an RoN rip-off than mine is. As far as i know, my system has never been used in a game. As for thinking, you of course need to think about where your credits are going. Do you want to Rush? Do you want to Boom? To use different strategies, you will need to invest differently. In addition, my template has more advanced game features such as flanking attacks and terrain advantages, so really my template doesnt require any more or less thinking than yours, it simply changes where you will be thinking. For my template, that means you will have to think more about how you are going to fight a battle rather than how you are going to research everything and micro-manage your base.

DK_Viceroy
09-07-2004, 11:29 PM
Not bad but i don't like this idea of borders, I think theirs a Star Wars mod for civilisation That you might like windu since I beleive it's civiliastion uses a border system.

FroZticles
09-08-2004, 02:07 AM
Vostok I knew it did not mean you use the force to advance, its a forth resource and you make it sound like its an everyday tool. I still do not like it being used as a resource seeing as no military in the movies has tapped into the force and used it for its military advantage

Empire
3. Blast doors seem lame, plus they are buildings not hallways that you can block with doors.....

Republic
1.Vostok I knew it did not mean you use the force to advance, its a forth resource and you make it sound like its an everyday tool. I still do not like it being used as a resource seeing as no military in the movies has tapped into the force and used it for its military advantage

2. She is not a hero by any means what did she actually do for the Republic? Nothing except is a senator in the senate. She is a hero to Naboo yes but definately not the Republic. A replacement could easily be Mace or any other jedi at the order.

Confed
1. Then why did u give them to the Union. I think there more unique to the Trade Federation then they are to the Union. PLus the movies don't support your theory on how different droids are divided amongst the factions. The only 2 that Dooku mentioned there Trade Fed and the Union having droids.

2.Actually they can if you played Star Wars starfighter they can angle there guns at air from the ground. Which is EU I know but I never saw them placing beacons either....

DK_Viceroy
09-08-2004, 06:28 AM
Perhaps Vostok thinks the empire is so inept and inviting to be infiltrated that they have big gaping doors that can be waltzed in and out of no problem if that was true then blast doors would fit. Vostok i know your trying to remove micro but this would seem to put more in that it would take out but it's propably when all said and done has equal micro to AoM though I think priority levels seem to encourage a feel of being a part of a greater thing.

Admiral Vostok
09-08-2004, 06:51 AM
3. Blast doors seem lame, plus they are buildings not hallways that you can block with doors.....You (and obviously Windu since he agrees) are forgetting the Blast Doors at the entrance to the shield bunker on Endor. This is what I was trying to capture.I still do not like it being used as a resource seeing as no military in the movies has tapped into the force and used it for its military advantageExcept the Republic, which is why it is unique to them.She is not a hero by any means what did she actually do for the Republic?[quote]She is as much a hero as all of the other Political Heroes (Leia, Gunray and Tarkin). Besides, I felt that all the main characters needed a presence.[quote]Then why did u give them to the Union.I didn't "give them" to the Techno Union. The Techno Union just builds them, which is true to the movies. The Techno Union builds the Droidekas too.Actually they can if you played Star Wars starfighter they can angle there guns at air from the ground. Which is EU I know but I never saw them placing beacons either....Well apart from it not making much sense, the Separatists already have plenty of other AA units, they don't need any more. Also, if the Droid Starfighter can shoot air while in Walker mode, people will tend to keep them in Walker mode instead of turning them into Fighter mode, which isn't how they should be used.

Windu: please explain how my system is similar to RoN in any way. Yours has the four different areas of research and everything. The only thing that's different between yours and RoNs is the ability for you to allocate resources to it so it's done automatically. Vostok i know your trying to remove microHow am I trying to remove micro? It's you that's removing micro with your automatic advancing system and magical naval transports.

DK_Viceroy
09-08-2004, 08:36 AM
Those are windu's hair brained ideas do not quote me in relation to his somewhat questionable but should i even call the ideas? since a lot seem to be lifted from other games.

FroZticles
09-08-2004, 04:14 PM
Making Republic plaers build Jedi is also not a good idea, the clones are successful on there own, seeing as there are only a handful of Jedi left since the Battle of Geonosis I don't see how the clone army should even need the Jedi.

Well theres no movie proof that they build the Battle droids. I could say that those droids were the Geonosians because they were being built on there planet.

Not making sense??? Do I need to explain it again? Obviously they do seeing as how the Gunships dominated them at Battle of geo.

Also you did not give your reasons why Padme is a Republic "hero".

DK_Viceroy
09-08-2004, 10:50 PM
Actually the Geonosians made the droids for the varius confederacy powers so they technically already belonged to the federation and such because they propably already paid for them.

also i see the fact that the Droid Starfighter wasn't seen in ep 2 as good proof that they've either been outlawed by the senate or phased out in favour of something else, propably the Geonosian Nantex Fighter.

FroZticles
09-09-2004, 12:08 AM
Well the movie was a little dry on the details of who owned what droids so I guess we will never know unless they reveal it in Episode 3, which is unlikely.

Yeah the Senate outlawing them that will stop them :rolleyes:
I did not see any fighters except as Dooku escorts, maybe they were on the Trade Federation battleships?

Darth Windu
09-09-2004, 02:01 AM
Vostok - obviously you havent even read my template regarding research. There are 3, as opposed to RoN's 5, which can go to 8 if you use 'advanced options' which allows you to micro-manage the research more. Yours, however, still relies on the 'click to research' system which is used in RoN, AoE, AoK etc.

Viceroy - as the Droid Starfighter, if you look at the databank entry for the Geonosian Starfighter, you will see that the Droid Starfighter was going to be the main air defence of the Confederacy, but they decided to make some new Geonosian fighters to escort Dooku. The Droid starfighters probably went the same way as the 'Assault Ship attacks Geonosian Airbase' scene.

Admiral Vostok
09-09-2004, 06:39 AM
Windu: the "click to research" system as you call it is not just used by RoN, AoE, and AoK, but in fact by every single RTS ever made. I would like to think that says something to you.

Froz: I did address why Padme should be a hero, but I screwed up the quoting above, so I'll re-post it here:She is not a hero by any means what did she actually do for the Republic?She is as much a hero as all of the other Political Heroes (Leia, Gunray and Tarkin). Besides, I felt that all the main characters needed a presence.

Addressing everyone's other issues:Well theres no movie proof that they build the Battle droids.Yes there is. There is the line from the Techno Union guy: "With these new Battle Droids we built for you, you'll have the finest army in the galaxy." There you have it, proof that the Techno Union is in charge of building Battle Droids.also i see the fact that the Droid Starfighter wasn't seen in ep 2 as good proof that they've either been outlawed by the senate or phased out in favour of something else, propably the Geonosian Nantex Fighter.Hardly, since we didn't see any space battles in Episode II, and in fact we only saw a total of three fighters (Obi-Wan's Jedi Starfighter and the two Geonosian Fighters that accompany Dooku). As Windu said, they were actually planning to show a space battle as well, though scrapped it because it wasn't necessary, but this battle was going to feature the Droid Starfighters rather than the Geonosians Fighters.

DK_Viceroy
09-09-2004, 08:14 AM
Your Purism Betrays you, since by your own rules the Geonosian Starfighter takes precedence over the possibility of the continued use of the Droid Starfighter.

The Geonosian Starfighter should be in the separatists.

That applies to the pair of your templates no matter how many times you blown your horns ring your bells and argue to your blue in the faces they should be in because the pair of you have the TIE Bomber, and that's only in ep 5

The Geonosian Fighter is better than the droid starfighter and you can't bring in those hell ridden laws of yours vostok even if you did i would not listen since their a load of tripe anyway. both units are cannon yes. perhaps the Droid Starfioghter could be the one you get first and later on you would get the Geonosian Fighter since it is superior, It should be in because to use purist reasons every film unit should be in.

To heck with minor factions it would be nice to have them in but i know practically no if any RTS's that inclde them it takes dveelopment time and money away from the other civs and more often than not steals units away from the other factions and the mian factions are more important and have priority.

Admiral Vostok
09-09-2004, 08:56 AM
Purism never betrays me. If you want to believe that two craft flying escort in atmosphere is enough evidence to suggest that the Geonosian Fighters will replace the thousands upon thousands of Droid Starfighters already in service, that's your problem.

But let's look at this realistically: Geonosian Fighters are specially designed to only be piloted by Geonosians. Do you really think the galaxy-spanning Confederacy would neglect the Droid Starfighter, which can be mass-produced much more cheaply, for a fighter whose numbers are limited to the population of a single planet? Not to mention that Geonosis is now occupied by the Republic, so Geonosian pilots would be even harder to come by. It just doesn't make sense.

But the most potent argument, which you seem to overlook, is that of Gameplay rather than Realism. If I include the Geonosian Fighter I have to include all the Geonosian units, and to do so would be far too unbalanced. The Separatists would have far too many units with all the Geonosian units included, and most if not all of these units already have a gameplay counterpart in the existing Separatist design. The Geonosians work far better as a Minor Faction, it would be stupid for me to have the Minor Faction system and not have the Geonosians as such.

DK_Viceroy
09-09-2004, 09:08 AM
But you don't undertsand putting Minor Factions in games is increadibly unfeasible especially when you link it in with the space battles argument you even said that yourself.

Putting in Minor faction at the expense of the Major Factions should be avoided and Minor factions will take funds away from the rest of the game.

The Geonosians should be in with the seperatists. Vostok your summoning figures from thin air no where not even in EU do they claim that after naboo the federation or the other conglamorates had thousands of the droid starfighters.

If you actually look at episdoe 2 which should be no problem for you since you are a self proclaimed scholar you'll notice that there are millions of geonosians in the arena and millions more thoughout the hive you saw them crawling around when anakin entered the hive you saw them flying around in the production facility we didn't see that much of the hive and if what we saw so far was anything to go by there could have been several million million of Geonosians and your also neglecting that the Geonosians could have colonies elsewhere in the galaxy other hives and there were more than hives on Geonosis and it could have been quite possible to evacuate a few and set up hives elsewhere to build weapons for the confederacy after all why bother buidling a droid to build droids when you have living workers who can build droids and have the barest requirements. You saw how much i mean how little space they had a drone to about as much elbow room as a sardine this also menas they could propably reproduce very quickly and since the geonosians could propably provide themselves with all the nessacery requirements it is propably very feasible that the Geonosians would continue to work for the confederacy and how do we know that later on Geonosis is not recaptured and if it was you would have a near limitless supply of pilots and of course just think there could be hundreds of underground foundires i doubt the republic would have been able to find them all so you would end up with millions of pilots and aircraft for a good deal of them. Anyway i'm sure in episode 3 we'll be seeing Ships and things designed exclusivley for the confederacy not for any of the major powers in it for the confederacy as an entity.

I will continue arguing for the Geonosians inclusion in the game since they are increadibly important it's ignoring a vital piece of film, and since their is scant EU that is post ep2 and pre ep 4 period The films will be the guiding lights and the guidance they give is Droid STarfighter ou Geonosian Starfighter in.

Admiral Vostok
09-09-2004, 09:31 AM
How are Minor Factions unfeasible? The developers have to create virtually all of the units anyway for the toybox, what I'm suggesting is allowing these to be played in the game. All the art and that sort of hard work is done, the second biggest job of balancing doesn't need to be done, all that is needed is the coding, which would take a day at the most.

Here's the realism arguments that you're ignoring:
The Separatists are money minded and will always chose an endlessly renewable unit such as the Droid Starfighter over a limited, more expensive and less expendable unit such as the Geonosian Starfighter. It doesn't matter how many Geonosians there are, there can always be more droids for a far smaller cost.
Geonosians did not partake in the Battle of Geonosis, which was on their own planet, it seems incredibly unlikely they would partake in a Separatist battle eslewhere.
Here's the gameplay arguments that you're ignoring:
With Geonosians included, the Separatists will have too many units. They already have slightly more than the others, but Geonosian inclusion will make them far too powerful.
The tasks performed by Geonosians are already covered by other units, and there's no point having redundancy.

DK_Viceroy
09-09-2004, 11:10 AM
I can imagine loads of people complaining about not having the geos in. The geonosain Warrior can easily replace the stap it would be cheaper for the confederacy instead of buidling two things send a geo which also isn't suceptible to being knocked out by signal loss. The Geonosians wern't particularly ready for a war at thast time would you expect to be suddenly descended on by an army? especially by the republic. We see only 1 front of the battle of Geonosis and it also depends when you say the battle started some would say it started when anakin and padme landed some would say in the arena regardless we saw only one front and on other fronts their could have been a geonosian army there. also count poggle says he'll send his warriors to hide in the catacombs which meant the geonosians would have takemn part on the battle, also Count poggle helped the battle and he is a geonosian so therefore the geonosains took part because one of them commanded the battle. instead of having some units you cojured for some reason or another put ion Geonosian units.

I liked your nearlier Templates earlier because they didn't hash up what were excellently balanced factions.

It would take considerably more time than a day they'd have to come up with cocnept art animate them but the art in put sounds in and certainly spend more than a day coding them perhaps a week or a month which is a peroid of time not spent on major factions.

Admiral Vostok
09-09-2004, 11:22 AM
Still ignoring the points above I see. There is no way anyone would chose to use Geonosians when droids are cheaper and unexhaustible.

It would take considerably more time than a day they'd have to come up with cocnept art animate them but the art in put sounds in and certainly spend more than a day coding them perhaps a week or a month which is a peroid of time not spent on major factions.Read what I wrote again. I'll spell it out further for you:
Concept Art: Already done for toybox
Design: Already done for toybox
Animation: Already done for toybox
Sound Effects: Already done for toybox
Coding: Will take a day at most
Balancing: Not necessary

So in turning toybox units into playable units, it is an extra day of work for a huge benefit.

DK_Viceroy
09-09-2004, 11:32 AM
Look If there isn't a toy box then you won't have any units to make into these minor factions and i don't beleive you when you say it'll take a day for them maybe a day for each minor faction but propably a week for each you don't do anything worthwhile quick Geonosians would fit in better than droids. Droids arn't as effective as hman beings especially aircraft wise so ergo they would us ethe geonosian starfighter instead of the droid starfighter. adding 3 more units will hardly unbalance it even more especially since i recall alot of people saying you need more units so take a hint and add them.

lukeiamyourdad
09-09-2004, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by DK_Viceroy
I can imagine loads of people complaining about not having the Geos in.
The Geonosian Warrior can easily replace the STAP. It would be cheaper for the Confederacy. Instead of buidling two things, send a Geo, which also isn't suceptible to being knocked out by signal loss.
The Geonosians wern't particularly ready for a war at that time. Would you expect to be suddenly descended on by an army? Especially by the Republic.
We see only 1 front of the battle of Geonosis and it also depends when you say the battle started. Some would say it started when Anakin and Padme landed. Some would say in the arena.

Regardless, we saw only one front and on other fronts there could have been a geonosian army there. Also, Count Poggle says he'll send his warriors to hide in the catacombs which meant the geonosians would have taken part in the battle. Also, Count poggle helped the battle and he is a geonosian so therefore the geonosains took part because one of them commanded the battle.
Instead of having some units you conjured for some reason or another put in Geonosian units.


I corrected all the mistakes I could find and seperated the big text into smaller paragraphs which makes it easier on your eyes.
If you want to debate, write clearly.

DK_Viceroy
09-09-2004, 11:37 AM
Thank you luke maybe Vostok will wake up and see the light from his demented path of being a xenophobe.

Admiral Vostok
09-09-2004, 11:39 AM
Look If there isn't a toy box then you won't have any units to make into these minor factionsThat's true, but I plan on there being a toybox since it's a very popular addition to a game.and i don't beleive you when you say it'll take a day for them maybe a day for each minor faction but propably a week for each you don't do anything worthwhile quickAs a software writer, I know this would take a day. I could do it in a day by myself, so a team would no doubt be able to do it. Since the toybox already exists, all that is needed is the coding to allow buildings to build units. You don't have to believe me but it is true.Geonosians would fit in better than droids. Droids arn't as effective as hman beings especially aircraft wise so ergo they would us ethe geonosian starfighter instead of the droid starfighter.BUT DROIDS ARE CHEAPER AND EXPENDABLE! STOP IGNORING THIS POINT!

lukeiamyourdad
09-09-2004, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by DK_Viceroy
Look, If there isn't a toy box, then you won't have any units to make into these minor factions and I don't believe you when you say it'll take a day for them. Maybe a day for each minor faction but propably a week for each. ???
You don't do anything worthwhile.

Quick Geonosians would fit in better than droids. Droids aren't as effective as human beings-->( Geonosians, not human beings. Intelligent life-form would have been better used here.), especially aircraft wise, so ergo they would use the geonosian starfighter instead of the droid starfighter. Adding 3 more units will hardly unbalance it. Even more, especially since I recall alot of people saying you need more units. So take a hint and add them.

Yet again... I just corrected mistakes, some sentences have missing words or don't make a lot of sense.

DK_Viceroy
09-09-2004, 11:45 AM
Thanks again Luke.

The Geonosian Starfighter cvan be used by Geonosians and Humans it can be easily modified either way since the entire thing has a modular design it's got a far higher survivability rating than the droid starfighter it has a far superior range.

If a geonosian Is piloting he can use Olfactory signals and They are Incredibly deadly.

Since they have a higher survivability that means more come back after each mission meaning that theyr are cheaper in the long run and can help to have a greater numerical superiority and with each increase that swamps defenders meaning that even more come back in one piece.


MEANING THAT THEY ARE CHEAPER IN THE LONG RUN TO DROIDS AS WELL AS SUPERIOR

Admiral Vostok
09-09-2004, 11:53 AM
They are not cheaper in the long run. Broken droids can be recycled, so the fact more Geonosians make it back is negligible.

The Geonosians are army builders, they are not primarily a race of warriors. If Count Dooku came to them and said he wanted to use Geonosian Starfighters, the Geonosians would rather build a droid-piloted version of the Geonosian Starfighter than send Geonosians themselves.

I'd also like to use this excerpt from the Star Wars Databanks to back me up:Though labeled "warriors," Geonosians do not have a standing military. They instead use their droid foundries to build armies for corporate interests wealthy enough to afford them -- entities such as the Trade Federation and the Techno Union. Despite relatively simple minds, the Geonosians are adept at mechanical construction, and are contractors to many of the galaxy's biggest manufacturing concerns. They are responsible for the construction of some of the largest feats of engineering ever witnessed.

I guess I'm never going to get you to agree with me, Viceroy, so I'll just be comfortable with the fact that the only criticism you have of my design is that I've included the Separatists and the Geonosians as separate civs instead of a combined civ.

DK_Viceroy
09-09-2004, 11:56 AM
Give the Einstein a cookie he's finally realized what I stated sveeral Posts ago

Remeber This

The Geonosian Starfighter should be in the separatists.

That applies to the pair of your templates no matter how many times you blown your horns ring your bells and argue to your blue in the faces they should be in.

lukeiamyourdad
09-09-2004, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by DK_Viceroy

The Geonosian Starfighter can be used by Geonosians and Humans. It can be easily modified either way since the entire thing has a modular design. It's got a far higher survivability rating than the droid starfighter. It has a far superior range.

If a geonosian is piloting, he can use olfactory signals and they are incredibly deadly.

Since they have a higher survivability rating, it means more come back after each mission, meaning that they are cheaper in the long run, can help them gain a greater numerical superiority and with each increase, it swamps defenders, meaning that even more come back in one piece.-->Weird sentence. I badly corrected it because I have a hard time figuring out what you exactly want to say here.


THEY ARE CHEAPER IN THE LONG RUN TO DROIDS AS WELL AS SUPERIOR


1-It takes time to train a pilot.
2-Droids can simply have a flight program implanted in them.
3-Not good bussiness to send workers to their deaths.
4-Clones have already proven their superiority as pilots and soldier in general thus creating human/geonosian/alien piloted vehicle would prove quite costly in terms of lives.

lukeiamyourdad
09-09-2004, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by DK_Viceroy
Give Einstein a cookie. He has finally realized what I stated several posts ago.


Originally posted by DK_Viceroy
The Geonosian Starfighter should be in the Separatists.

That applies to your two templates. No matter how many times you blow your horn, ring your bell or argue until your face is blue, they should be in.



He really needs to be Einstein to figure out what you're trying to say.

*Made the post clearer*

DK_Viceroy
09-09-2004, 12:08 PM
But The geonosians already have trained pilots they can Train Others, Living Pilots are Far Superior to any flight program or droid they don't have intuition they don't have feelings they can't think on their feet and also their very vulnerable to any Ion Blasts and of course vulnerable to being affected by loss of signal since if a Droid Starfighter looses signal for more than 2 minutes it self destructs, Your also forgetting what powers a droid Starfighters Engnine, Fuel Slugs which means they have to return for refueling a lot quicker than other Fighters.

Admiral Vostok
09-09-2004, 12:17 PM
Viceroy, I suggest you go and read all about Geonosians and Geonosian Fighters in the Star Wars Databanks. They support the fact that Geonosians are not a militarily-active part of the Confederacy. In fact the EU parts, which I would have thought you of all people would pay close attention to, directly contradicts many of the points you've made above.

Now, let's leave this point since I can argue until I'm blue in the face but Viceroy will never see the truth. Is there anything else in my design that warrants discussion?

Just another comment about Minor Factions: this is probably one of the most important features of my design. Not only is it a unique idea no-one else has done before, but it would improve sales since many people want to play as some of these Minor Civs but wouldn't be able to if they needed to be properly developed and balanced like a Major Civ.

lukeiamyourdad
09-09-2004, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by DK_Viceroy
But the geonosians already have trained pilots. They can train others.(1) Living pilots are far superior to any flight program or droid. They don't have intuition, they don't have feelings and they can't think on their feet. Also they're very vulnerable to any Ion Blasts and of course, vulnerable to being affected by loss of signal.(2) If a Droid Starfighter loses its signal for more than 2 minutes it self- destructs.
(3)You're also forgetting what powers a droid Starfighters engine, Fuel Slugs which means they have to return for refueling a lot more often than other fighters.

1-They also are more costly, need training, cost food, etc.
2-Canonical proof? Even if there is, the Tie fighter also has limited range. If its command ship blows up and it's left alone, there is no way it will survive.
3-Canonical proof? There no proof of this anywhere besides some EU material which aren't that reliable.

Why would they need a long-range fighter? The Empire did pretty well with almost none.

Admiral Vostok
09-09-2004, 12:23 PM
Indeed LukesDad has brought up an important point that I was going to suggest. Giving the Separatists access to the Geonosian Fighter would make them stronger than the Empire when it comes to aircraft. However I firmly believe the Separatists should have the worst air of all the civs, since they rely on numbers and not skills.

DK_Viceroy
09-09-2004, 12:26 PM
How Dare You Doubt The Supreme God Of EU

I am indeed going off EU I have my Data files right here though because of Deagonstini's unreliability They know owe me a years worth of credit and heavn't sent so much as a scarp of paper.

They are faster And Far superior, EU has nothing to do with you you have said that repeatedly you have said it more time than i have said truth, and what i speak is truth in all and every way the Geonosian Starfighter is Superior.

lukeiamyourdad
09-09-2004, 12:26 PM
From Star Wars Databanks, under Geonosians:

Though labeled "warriors," Geonosians do not have a standing military. They instead use their droid foundries to build armies for corporate interests wealthy enough to afford them


Under Geonosian Starfighter:

and unlike their battle droid designs, the Geonosians have not marketed the craft to outside consumers.

This is mostly due to the ship's control systems being specificially tailored for a Geonosian pilot.The complex multi-axis control yokes require a Geonosian's dexterity, and vital performance feedback is provided to the pilot via a scent-stimulator mask that exploits the accute Geonosian olfactory senses.


Oh and by the way: Databanks>Your EU data files

Admiral Vostok
09-09-2004, 12:29 PM
Indeed, yet the so-called "EU God" believes otherwise:
The Geonosian Starfighter cvan be used by Geonosians and Humans it can be easily modified either way

DK_Viceroy
09-09-2004, 12:30 PM
I doubt The veracity of star wars .com since most of the information there is either out of date or inaccurate or both.

If as you claim they didn't have a standing Military which is wrong, Then how did they have Pilots ready to Pilot those Fighters. A Fighter force would certainly coutn as a standing Military and those warriors in the foundry certainly count as well as that huge sonic cannon they used in the arena and with the speed they pulled it out they must have a large amount of their own military equipemtn ready for a moments use.

And I read that In one of my issues that was increadibly chewed up by the dogs unfortunatly it was too damaged to make all of it out but that was the general gist. I have asked for a replacement but as i have said before DeAgonstini is as reliable as Ivan The Terrible is at Deleveirng a pizza from beyond the grave.

Admiral Vostok
09-09-2004, 12:31 PM
Something tells me starwars.com would know a bit more about Star Wars than your mysterious datafiles which are only available in the UK.

By the way a Security Force is not a Standing Military. Naboo also had a Security Force, yet as Panaka said "We have no army".

lukeiamyourdad
09-09-2004, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by DK_Viceroy
How Dare You Doubt The Supreme God Of EU?

I am indeed going off EU, I have my Data files right here though because of Deagonstini's unreliability, they owe me a year's worth of credit and haven't sent so much as a scarp? of paper.

They are faster and far superior-->Superior to what?. EU has nothing to do with you. You have said that repeatedly. You have said it more often than I have said truth-->Reformulate and what I speak is truth, in all and every way the Geonosian Starfighter is superior.

Goddang it man. If you weren't british I would understand but this is ridiculous.
It's supposed to be your native tongue(or second I don't know). It's the one you use everyday. You're being corrected by a vietnamese french canadian guy to whom english is the third language.

DK_Viceroy
09-09-2004, 12:37 PM
I would hardly call it avaible but you have seen the pages and i may have skills but i certainly wouldn't conjure up fiction it is truth and it is official.

lukeiamyourdad
09-09-2004, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by DK_Viceroy
I doubt the veracity of star wars.com since most of the information there is either out of date, inaccurate or both.


Because yours isn't?

Admiral Vostok
09-09-2004, 12:40 PM
I'm not saying they are forgeries of lies specifically created by you. I'm saying that the official site of Star Wars is probably a more accurate source, and certainly far more "official".

Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
You're being corrected by a vietnamese french canadian guy to whom english is the third language. That is classic. Quote of the day, I reckon.

lukeiamyourdad
09-09-2004, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by DK_Viceroy
I would hardly call it avaible but you have seen the pages and I may have skills but I certainly wouldn't conjure up fiction. It is truth and it is official.

Yeah, but the guy writing the book can conjure up fiction.

It's the fiction of a fictionous world.

DK_Viceroy
09-09-2004, 12:54 PM
If Your a guy then why do you have a female avatar?

And try the fact that My Wireless Keyboard's batteries are running low and I don't claim to be a proffesional typist or particularly bothered about putting a full stop every third word I don't think anything is perfect so why obsess over every single detail there is no need to be constantly crossing the I's and dotting the T's.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/droid/dwarfspiderdroid/?id=eu

would you say that is particularly acurate?

It clealry says that a battle droid is taller than a Dwarf battle droid but when you look at the Battle droid beside it you can clearly see that is not true.

I can argue till the cows come home I consider it my job.

lukeiamyourdad
09-09-2004, 01:03 PM
Because I like that picture.

I'm not talking about simple and mundane things such as forgetting a dot on an "i" or forgetting an apostrophe. When you can't make clear sentences, now there's a problem. When you can't make good paragraphs and seperate your ideas clearly, now there's a problem.

Don't blame that on your keyboard.



It can be a simple error. The databanks are not perfect but it does not mean it isn't a reliable source of information.

EDIT: Nevermind that, looks at this
picture (http://www.starwars.com/databank/droid/dwarfspiderdroid/img/movie_bg.jpg)
From this angle it seems the dwarf spider droid is shorter then the battle droids behind it.

Admiral Vostok
09-09-2004, 04:21 PM
Battle Droids are taller than Dwarf Spider Droids. I don't know how you're making your comparisons such that "when you look at the Battle droid beside it you can clearly see that is not true", because in the version of Attack of the Clones I've seen the Dwarf Spider Droids are certainly shorter.

Is that the best you can do to prove the invalidity of the databank?

Darth Windu
09-09-2004, 07:03 PM
Viceroy - why do you continue to ignore reasonable arguments?

Apart from ignoring Vostok's points, i would like you to prove exactly how you came to the conclusion that the Geonosina Starfighter is better than the Droid Starfighter?There is absolutely nothing in the films to support this, but the films do show that the Droid Starfighter is more multi-role, as shown below-

Droid Starfighter
- Atmospheric flight = Yes
- Space flight = Yes
- Multiple movement modes = Yes

Geonosian Starfighter
- Atmospheric flight = Yes
- Space flight = Unknown
- Multiple movement modes = Unknown

In addition to this, there is nothing in the films stating what sort of power source or weapons either of these two craft have, and it could be argued the Droid Starfighter's are far superior to the Geonosian Starfighter. The problem here, of course, is that we have no direct comparison.

FroZticles
09-09-2004, 09:28 PM
I don't know about which fighter is better....... but I can say that the Geonisian fighter had poor accuracy especially since the gunship is so big and yet still managed to miss. Only got it because it had to stop and let Anakin and Obi out.

The datafiles viceroy has are/were available in Australia the info is ok since it has a nice balance of EU and movies in all of its data.

Admiral Vostok
09-10-2004, 07:48 AM
I've updated my design a bit by tweaking the Minor Civs. As I've said before, Minor Civs are one of the more important aspects in the game, so I developed them a little more by giving them Team Bonuses. These are pretty much like the Team Bonuses in SWGB1, although only Minor Civs grant team bonuses while the Major Civs do not. As such, through different combinations of Minor Civs as allies, a Major Civ can play quite differently, and variation is always nice.

I also included the Kaminoan Minor Civ, and renamed the modes of Minor Civ play to more descriptive, straight-forward names.

Overview of Minor Factions (http://vostok.150m.com/Overview.html#NeutralTowns)
Minor Factions and Civilisations (http://vostok.150m.com/MinorFactions.html)

Darth Windu
09-10-2004, 07:05 PM
Vostok - i havent yet looked at your new Minor Civs thingy, but in my template having Minor Civs gives bonuses, such as the Wookiees reduce structure build time, Kaminoans reduce infantry build time and give you an army, Alderaanians mean other minor civs are less hostile towards you etc.

Admiral Vostok
09-11-2004, 08:32 AM
Ah yes, I had forgotten you also had team bonuses. However, don't yours really work by occupying certain planets in the Conquer the Galaxy mode? My team bonuses are more like the ones in SWGB1.

Darth Windu
09-11-2004, 06:41 PM
Yeah, i've had team bonuses for a while now. Also, yes, mine work when you take control of a palnet.

How do yours work?

Admiral Vostok
09-12-2004, 07:11 AM
It depends what game mode you're playing. If you're playing the "Individual" mode, where players can actually play as the Minor Civs, then the team bonuses work as they do in SWGB1: anyone who is an ally gets the bonuses. If you're playing the "Alliances" mode, Minor Civs are played by the computer and you have to send your Political Hero into their base to forge an alliance with them. Once they are allied with you, you get their bonuses.