PDA

View Full Version : Changes ARE being made to Star Wars DVDs.


IG-64
09-10-2004, 06:09 PM
Including the addition of hayden christian in the end scene.


Clicky (http://dvd.ign.com/articles/545/545786p1.html)



I dont care what you say (thats right, Kain, I mean you) it's farking awesome.



[EDIT] Before making any comments I ask to please read the entire article.

Spider AL
09-10-2004, 06:24 PM
No... No that's impossible...

NOOOOO!!!!

*falls down a shaft*

Astrotoy7
09-10-2004, 06:28 PM
I usually dont like it when ppl get on and say "meh...old", but this has to do with SW...................

meh......oldage........go to this thread for nice screenies and discussion (http://lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=134505)

and IG, a SW Movie thread without Kain whinin about GLs "credibility going to zero" is damn impossible..... :D

he'll still be going to watch EpIII in 2005 like the rest of us, even if its just to whine about it :p

Without paraphrasing what I said in that other thread to much I am not 100% delighted by the young anakin replacing Sebastian Shaw's ghost, but there may be an explanation to it after all in Ep3, if you remember obiwan saying
"He ceased being anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader"

Perhaps anakin dies in ep3, but his body was bought back to life rather than him just getting toasted....I dunno.... :(

I please ask those of you who "already know what happens" and have leaked screenies etc USE SPOILER TAGS PLEASE!!!!


mtfbwya

Spider AL
09-10-2004, 06:33 PM
he'll still be going to watch EpIII in 2005 like the rest of us, even if its just to whine about it I love the way both sides slag each other off. It's so petty, and as such, it is good clean modern entertainment. :D

Myself, I'd like to have the original cuts released too, so that I could choose between them. And I too will be seeing Ep.III, not only to slag it off because of the crap script, acting and lame direction, but also in the hope of seeing a good fight scene or two. Fight scenes weren't all bad in Ep.II. Maybe they'll be good in this one.

Astrotoy7
09-10-2004, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by Spider AL
..... but also in the hope of seeing a good fight scene or two. Fight scenes weren't all bad in Ep.II. Maybe they'll be good in this one.

wow its Spider AL....I remember you form JA forums... my counsellor says I cant go back there because of the nightmares I was having whenever I used to read those "h0n0rz vs lamer vs n00b" flame wars.... hmmm.... I wonder if theyve stopped :p

yeah, I liked Ep.II, less Jar Jar, nice chases/fights. Sure anakin being Romeo is a bit cheesy but its SW/GL, i'd say its more about the action than the luvvin' 'n' satisifaction :p Put it this way, anyone who watches SW purely for the romance factor is a damn fool :D

*ducks thrown hairbrushes from teeny girl members of Hayden's Fan Club*

mtfbwya

BongoBob
09-10-2004, 06:47 PM
sweet.

I personally can't wait. Plus the demo of Battlefront. Oh yesh, we can'ts wait.

:)

Samuel Dravis
09-10-2004, 07:00 PM
Really, the only change that I'm put off by is Hayden being in RotJ as the ghost of Anakin. All the other ghosts are old, why isn't he?

Battlefront does look good, although I think I'll just go buy the full game. Right after I've aquired the DVD's, of course. :)

Kain
09-10-2004, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by IG-64
Including the addition of hayden christian in the end scene.


Clicky (http://dvd.ign.com/articles/545/545786p1.html)



I dont care what you say (thats right, Kain, I mean you) it's farking awesome.



[EDIT] Before making any comments I ask to please read the entire article.

See the corrisponding thread in the Star Wars forum for my response to this blasphemy...

The Seeker
09-10-2004, 07:46 PM
Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back

Ian McDiarmid has refilmed scenes as the Emperor instead of that near-fossil they had. :emodanc:

The conversations between Vader and Palpatine has a few new lines. Palpatine knows that Luke is Vader's son.

Temuera Morrison does the voice of Boba Fett :emodanc: :cowdance:



God, that's gonna make the movie so much better. I little consistency goes a long way. Now, if they would just replace mark hamill with a competent actor, we'd be set.

Troopr-Undr-Fir
09-10-2004, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by JediKnight_114


God, that's gonna make the movie so much better. I little consistency goes a long way. Now, if they would just replace mark hamill with a competent actor, we'd be set.

I thought he was perfect in ANH, but I can see what you mean by the other two. Mehbeh he just got lucky :o


I actually like the things they are doing. Don't like how long it has taken, or that they should have been done right in the first Special Edition. But what are ya gonna do?

The Seeker
09-10-2004, 09:01 PM
Well, in the special editions, it was either use a tech that's in it's infancy to fix it, and make it look cartoony (jabba in ANH) or just fix a few key parts with the new tech and stick with the old for the time being. I mean, props and miniatures still look ten times more convincing than the crummy cgi from the mid 90s.

Waiting like this for the cgi to catch up with what he wanted, I think will make the movies a whole lot better.

ET Warrior
09-10-2004, 10:35 PM
I.....I don't understand the people who are so supportive of these changes. They are GARBAGE I say, GARBAGE. Most of them are right up there with Greedo shooting first.


I can support the upgrades in special effects, but actually REPLACING actors? Changing the lines? It's been awesome for nearly thirty years, why on EARTH should we change it now?

Maybe I'm just too old...all you young'uns seem pretty gung-ho about it :(

Kain
09-10-2004, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by ET Warrior
I.....I don't understand the people who are so supportive of these changes. They are GARBAGE I say, GARBAGE. Most of them are right up there with Greedo shooting first.


I can support the upgrades in special effects, but actually REPLACING actors? Changing the lines? It's been awesome for nearly thirty years, why on EARTH should we change it now?

Maybe I'm just too old...all you young'uns seem pretty gung-ho about it :(

*draws large circle around myself and ET*

This circle is for people who think that changes to greatness make greatness worthless! All who agree enter the circle of 'Drop a few #'s on Kain's "To Do In" list'!

Lightsaberboy
09-10-2004, 10:54 PM
i'm not really looking forward to these changes either, especially the anakin switch and boba fett voice. They're supposed to make the prequels so that tehy fit with the old trilogy, not the other way around.

ET Warrior
09-10-2004, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by Lightsaberboy
They're supposed to make the prequels so that tehy fit with the old trilogy, not the other way around.

EXACTLY! They didn't replace the emperor in ESB with Ian McDiarmid back in 1983 when RotJ came out and they used him for the emperor, it's been that way for 24 years, so why does it need to be changed now? If they wanted continuity they would have had to change it way back then.

And don't even get me started on using Hayden to replace Shaw as Anakin's ghost. that one boils my blood more than any of em.

Doomie
09-11-2004, 01:32 AM
*draws large circle around myself and ET*

This circle is for people who think that changes to greatness make greatness worthless! All who agree enter the circle of 'Drop a few #'s on Kain's "To Do In" list'!

I'm in. I don't like change, but i do like starwars, so changes to starwars = bad.

Though Jabba could use a face lift in Star Wars IV...

CapNColostomy
09-11-2004, 01:57 AM
Originally posted by Kain
*draws large circle around myself and ET*

This circle is for people who think that changes to greatness make greatness worthless! All who agree enter the circle of 'Drop a few #'s on Kain's "To Do In" list'!

Lemme get squeezed in there with you fellers. I'll puch the first bastid that comes at us. They got those movies right the first time around, dammit. For the record, when you go to buy this box set, you won't be buying the OT, regardless of what it says anywhere else.

Mex
09-11-2004, 05:48 AM
Oh n0es, greedo shot first. Oh n0es, new act0rs!!11oneone! omgzors now effectzorz techologyeh!!

Get over it.

Sivy
09-11-2004, 07:59 AM
[shamless plug] you know, if you people posted in the star wars forum you would have know all about this ages ago. just like the confirmed star wars t.v show. in a minute someone will post about the mark hamil interview where he's talking about ep 7-9. you want breaking news then go where the action is my friends. the star wars forum... the place to be [/shamless plug]


:D

anyway...

i think a lot of the changes will be good. not too fond about the hayden ghost change though. but then who knows, it might be explained and we'll all go 'oh yeah, that makes sense actually'

Astrotoy7
09-11-2004, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by Pal™
Oh n0es, greedo shot first. Oh n0es, new act0rs!!11oneone! omgzors now effectzorz techologyeh!!

Get over it.

yeah, Im drawing a line around me and Pal in chickens blood... nothin to do with SW, just crazy voodoo sex rituals :p

j/k ....

Seriously, Its GL's to change.... if he wanted to he could CG Jar Jar to sing along to the opening crawl, its HIS creation to change...for the good or the bad

CapN, you ET and Kain is a cozy 'lil circle..... :D never thought I'd see that :D

Siv, what !! there's a Star Wars forum, here at LFN, you're kidding ! where !? :p [/ridiculous sarcasm] everyone just seems to forget to mention that they leech these things off TFN, my beloved old flame and drunken home wrecker of a SW site :D

mtfbwya

Mike Windu
09-11-2004, 09:11 AM
Doh, that's crap.

I've never seen EP 5 and 6, so it'll suck because they changed it.

:( I want to see it in its original form.

Bastards...

ET Warrior
09-11-2004, 09:16 AM
Gah, I wouldn't mind if they had their stupid changes if they'd at least release the ORIGINAL original trilogy on DVD aswell. Then I could be happy with my real star wars, and everyone that wants to can have their fake star wars.

TK-8252
09-11-2004, 09:20 AM
*Sigh* More useless changes.

Why wouldn't they make all the Stormtroopers CG like how all the Clone Troopers are CG? If they made Stormtroopers CG they could cover up the embarassing mistakes made with the Stormtrooper costumes (i.e. the Stormtrooper bumping his head on the door in ANH -_-).

Anthony
09-11-2004, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by TK-8252
(i.e. the Stormtrooper bumping his head on the door in ANH -_-).


Reminds me of retarted AI. :p

El Sitherino
09-11-2004, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by Pal™
Get over it. I have to agree. I mean, if you don't like it go out there and get the LD rips that are placed onto dvd-r's.

I'm not to happy about the Hayden/Shaw thing, but screw it, I don't have to do any work, and besides it's just one little change.

Kain
09-11-2004, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by ET Warrior
Gah, I wouldn't mind if they had their stupid changes if they'd at least release the ORIGINAL original trilogy on DVD aswell. Then I could be happy with my real star wars, and everyone that wants to can have their fake star wars.

This is the most sense you've ever made in any thread.:D

Kain
09-11-2004, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by ET Warrior
Gah, I wouldn't mind if they had their stupid changes if they'd at least release the ORIGINAL original trilogy on DVD aswell. Then I could be happy with my real star wars, and everyone that wants to can have their fake star wars.

This is the most sense you've ever made in any thread.:D

@Pal: Screw you. That last scene is bull****.

Kurgan
09-11-2004, 12:43 PM
It's Lucas's story but c'mon.

Swapping in Hayden for Shaw just doesn't make a whole lot of sense (maybe he'll explain it on the DVD commentary.. or in Episode III?).

First off, I'm assuming that when he was making ROTJ he figured any prequel films (if they would be made at all) would take place a LONG time before the classic trilogy.

I remember thinking that the Empire lasted for 50 years, and other stuff that turned out not to be true, such as the idea that the Jedi fought the Mandalorians in the Clone Wars, etc.

This was based on piecemeal comments from Lucas over the last 20 years and speculation in the EU.

Since the time between the two trilogies has apparently shrunk ("official" sources claim that there's 20 years between Episode III and IV and that TPM took place 32 or 33 years before ANH), that would make more sense to have a younger Anakin.

Shaw was in his 70's when he appeared (and good thing he's dead now or he'd be pissed that he was being edited out of the movie after 20 years even if he just had a small part, it was an important one), but according to the new timeline Anakin would only be in his 40's by the time of his unmasking.

The argument that "Anakin appears as he was when he was a light jedi" is goofy, because he TURNED BACK from the Darkside when he was an old man! So logically, he was "good" again, and so he should have appeared as he was when he died, perhaps with his injuries healed (so in other words, the ghost we saw in the regular and SE editions).

In all the reports I've seen the pics of Vader unmasked is still 70 something Shaw, but with his eyebrows removed and his eyes painted a different color. So why does he suddenly get 50 years younger when he's a ghost?

At least they should have put Hayden in "middle aged" makeup for the new shot, rather than as he appears in Episode III (3 short years after AOTCm, where all 20 something Anakin does is get a new hairstyle).

Or are we to believe that Vader also aged rapidly (Dark Side 'super aging' like the EU claims happened to Palpatine?) or somehow his injuries made him look 30 years older than he really was?

I can only imagine that the ghosts of Obi-Wan and Yoda are thinking, when they look over at Anakin "man, we're still old geezers and you get to be a teen heart throb for all eternity, and you were the bad guy! Bastard..."

; )

Kurgan
09-11-2004, 12:50 PM
Let's not start a flame war here. I think Lucas has every right to paste Jar Jar into every scene if he wants to. But...

...he has a duty to cinema history and all the people who made him rich watching these films as they grew up to provide the original films (as they were shown in theaters circa 1983 and then on home video for 20-14 years before the SE's were made) in a digital format that will last (unlike VHS tapes which stretch and break, and LaserDisks which are defunk in the Western market and dying elsewhere and prone to things like "laser rot" etc).

If Lucas really intends to wait until 2007 to release the "original films" on HD-DVD or Blu-Ray then... well, dang it George.

He's just being stubborn about this, because even though he's clearly doing it to make money, he could make even MORE money by releasing the originals.

I don't mind the SFX fixes, it's just these changes, like Greedo shooting first and Hayden replacing Shaw, that get me. He's changing the story! He can't say that he didn't have the technology for it back in the day, he obviously just changed his mind after 20 years and then decided to change it. To fit in better with his prequels...

Better that he would have just made the prequels to fit the classic trilogy, methinks.


PS: That reviewer is full of it. Sure he can ramble on about how stupid people are for criticizing Lucas's cannabilizing the classics (the he made of course).

What he doesn't realize is that what many of us critics are arguing is NOT that making the SE's or these new DVD is a sin. Or that Lucas has no right to modify his own films. Rather its the idea that the old films "don't exist" that Lucas is pushing on us (after we've grown up with these classics and lavished our money and attention on them... to his benefit) and not making the originals available.

The originals have been out of print for almost 10 years (the last VHS/LD release of the widescreen trilogy was in like 1995 IIRC). So if you want to get them now you either have to dig up an old copy or line some bootlegger's pockets (with money Lucas himself could easily pocket if he'd just slap "version 1" of each movie on a disc and package it along with the rest like so many other directors have done like with ET, Alien Quadraligy and Robo-Cop).

This reviewer associates bashing Lucas's ACTION (not making the originals available on the superior digital format, effectively saying "screw you" to all the Star Wars fans who held onto the series from 1977-1997) to bashing Lucas HIMSELF. He associates bashing Lucas with bashing Star Wars.

Nah, I love Star Wars, I'm grateful to Lucas. I even like the Special Editions, but I want the chance to own the originals as well. There's a demand for 'em, Lucas is just being stubborn. The reviewer instead gets pissy and insults me saying I live in my parent's basement and whine about stuff on my little message board. Yeah, and he's so high and mighty talking on IGN. Right. ; )

Last time I checked being a Star Wars fan didn't mean you had to believe in everything that Lucas says and does. Due to the mass campaign of fans, the DVD's of the Prequels were released a lot sooner than Lucas originally said, and the OT too. So maybe the fans will eventually wear him down and he'll release the originals.

I just hope he isn't hoping to wait until we all have HD DVD players or Blu-Ray players to make that a reality. I remember when they said that there wouldn't be any Star Wars DVDs (period) until Episode III was finished. At the time there was speculation that LucasFilm was invested in DivX (the rival DVD format). Anyway, I just wish he'd appease the fans. He has nothing to lose by doing so.

Spider AL
09-11-2004, 12:58 PM
He's just being stubborn about this, The man's a big disembodied bottom. As you say, this mania is ego-driven, not practical. On the one hand he's obsessed with editing his classic old films so that they'll appear up to date to a new audience, so one might say he wants the films to remain top of the line... On the other hand he's producing sub-standard prequels which are laughably badly scripted and directed (by him) and not only this... he's infecting what is almost universally accepted as classic (the original trilogy) with the mediocrity of the prequels.

Why, George? We wanted to forget the prequels ever existed while we watched the original trilogy. We'd even have put up with the manky "special editions" instead of the originals... But you've gone too far with this. Hayden? In RotJ? George Lucas, you deserve a painful end, and I'm not talking about injuries to your bottom.

Which would be good too.

Mex
09-11-2004, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by Kain
@Pal: Screw you. That last scene is bull****.

Boo-hoo. You think whining on a forum is ever going to change the last scene?

Spider AL
09-11-2004, 01:29 PM
Boo-hoo. You think whining on a forum is ever going to change the last scene?I was under the impression that a forum like this one was a place for people to air their views, not a place to try to belittle others, as you have done.

Kurgan
09-11-2004, 01:39 PM
No reason to flame each other, as I said.

You are correct, one person whining changes nothing. But thousands of people or tens of thousands can change something. Etc.

I have no problem with Lucas making the DVD's with edited scenes, but he should release the originals as well (just like he released them on LaserDisk and VHS, only with the superior visual and audio quality possible now with DVD).

PS: My disagreement with the reviewer on IGN, I should clarify (since there are several articles on that list page). Jeremy Conrad rants about the "Superior Editions" and that's where my comments were directed. He insults fans who just want the originals released on DVD, by erecting a strawman that they're all just frustrated nerds living in their parent's basement and making death threats to Lucas because they're emotionally insecure.
; )

Spider AL
09-11-2004, 01:43 PM
Jeremy Conrad rants about the "Superior Editions" and that's where my comments were directed. He insults fans who just want the originals released on DVD, by erecting a strawman that they're all just frustrated nerds living in their parent's basement and making death threats to Lucas because they're emotionally insecure.Quite. It's easy for someone like Conrad to kick people while they're down... and we certainly are at a low ebb currently. Ergh... Hayden...

manoman81
09-11-2004, 02:12 PM
I think that it's cool that they changed some of the voices and cleared up the audio. As for switching out actors, I dont know about that.

Using Ian Mcdormid I think is a cool idea. The Emperor fomr Empire (I think) looked wrong and weird. The make-up of the time made him look like he had a swollen, black eye. As for changing Anakin, bad move. Should have left that alone.

Kurgan
09-11-2004, 02:26 PM
Adam Tierney makes some not quite so nasty (but also disagreeable) remarks.

He claims that we all "own multiple copies" of the trilogy, and that we'll keep stacking up the copies no matter what.

Thank you, no.

I own ONE copy of the trilogy, the Special Editions on VHS. And these were the pan 'n' scan versions too (I saw the widescreen editions in stores a week later, I was pissed!).

The next version of the trilogy I'm getting are the DVD's.

Lucas himself re-edited and added new CGI stuff to THX-1138 for DVD, but guess what? He also made the original, un-modified version available as well.

But suddenly when it comes to Star Wars, only the 2004 editions exist. Ooookay.

And what's all this "Original Vision" crap?

Lucas could have made Greedo shoot first back in 1977 easily. He could have had Anakin appear as a handsome 21 year old if he wanted to (granted, he couldn't have forseen Hayden C playing the part since he was just a baby at the time). All of that stuff wasn't due to budget limitations or studio execs forcing their views on him. So really it's just a case of Lucas changing his mind a few decades later and wanting to hype his prequels more.

Again, updating the visual effects is fine, and changing the story is fine but make the original version (with the original story, in which Anakin is an old man, Han Solo gets the drop on the guy who's about to murder him, etc.) available for the folks who grew up with them.

Lucas isn't evil, but he can make mistakes, as he's clearly doing here by not preserving these classics. It's akin to colorizing black & white films. Well, it goes beyond that (and people excuse colorization because the people who made and starred in those films are dead so they can't argue), because he's changing the story and the characters, not just how the film looks.

One intelligent argument I've heard is that he's been tweaking the films all along. He's put in the "Episode IV" into ANH, he's switched some of the lines around (alternate dialouge) etc. But that's a far cry from changing the actual events.

It's like if you made an award-winning movie about the life and death of Abraham Lincoln. Then 20 years later you decided that John Wilkes Booth was too sympathetic of a character to shoot the president in cold blood, so you edit the film so that Abe takes a shot at Booth (and misses). Now that's history, Star Wars is made up, but still. Star Wars is a part of history, and the movie that won all those awards and the admiration of the fans isn't the Special Edition, but the ones that were shown in theaters from 1977-1983.

What Adam Tierney is saying is that we fans are just too in love with Star Wars that we're all hypocrites.

We hate Lucas but we do everything he says and in a sense it's just, because Uncle Lucas always knows best. So stop whining.

Well, again, if the fans hadn't whined we'd still be waiting for the original trilogy on DVD. We probably wouldn't even have the prequels (if the fans didn't care about Star Wars, he wouldn't have bothered to try to milk the cash cow one more time).

Speaking of revisionism, is anyone else bothered that Star Trek Enterprise looks more futuristic and "visually pretty" than the Original Series?

Prequels to Sci Fi will always look better than the original because of the evolution of visual effects (unless you deliberately use more primitive techniques to duplicate the look). And modifying SFX has nothing to do with the changes Lucas is making. It has nothing to do with Greedo Shooting First or Anakin appearing as a young man in ghost form, etc.

I have a feeling that this may not be the last time Lucas re-edits the films. And when he does it again you'll have people complaining then and people complaining back saying that Lucas "intended it this way all along." *Sigh*

As to putting in Ian M. to play Palpatine in ESB I know a lot of fans wanted to see that for a long time. Changing the dialouge though was unnecessary. And re-dubbing Boba Fett's voice? Uh, okay. Boba didn't have an accent in AOTC did he? And his dad died when he was just a little kid. Yet 20 some years later he's got his dad's exact accent. Okay... I guess accents are genetic now.

And as long as he's replacing the old actors with the prequel ones, why doesn't he put in CGI Yoda and Ewan McGregor for the ghost scene of ROTJ? Why does only Anakin get to be his prequel self in the Jedi Afterlife?

Is Lucas not willing to go the extra mile to put the old films in line with the new ones, or is he just doing this to create controversy with the fans and a few film critics? (the "rebel" in him again, struggling to be in the limelight again, going with the theme of one earlier IGN reviewers)

Mike Windu
09-11-2004, 02:39 PM
Taken from a conversation between myself and someone who will not be revealed.


me:see, hayden was not in the original SW
that is a change
change is altering.
change is indifferent
it is perception that we view it as better or worse.

person: gl didn't change anything, this is how it was meant to be in the first place, it was planned
to be like it is in the dvds

me: SW is in the eye of the beholder and no matter what we say to each other we will retain our own opinions.
well if he wanted it to be like the dvds.
he should have done it in the first place.
it'd be like led zeppelin changing stairway to heaven
or replacing Johnny Depp with Viggo Mortensen

;)

Kurgan
09-11-2004, 02:50 PM
Agreed. Like I said, anyone with some sense can see that the "original vision" thing is pure nonesense. Lucas changed his mind, that's all. He claims it was his original vision to have it like this all along, but anyone can see that's hooey. Didn't he have control of his own films once ANH was a smashing success? And it's not as if the technology didn't exist back then.

Lucas has changed his mind quite a few times about the movies. He was going to make 12 movies, then 9, then 6. That's fine, obviously tastes change, money changes, technology changes, etc. But Lucas is being dishonest to claim that he "never said those things" and "wanted it this way all along." Coulda fooled me. ; )

And why did he wait so long to re-edit the films? He was a rich man in 1983 (still is). He could have taken the Jabba puppet used in ROTJ and matt him into the scene with Han Solo (or re-film it completely since Harrison Ford was only 5 years older, and makeup can fix that easily).

I think the SE's were just a publicity stunt to get Star Wars hype going for the prequels. Just as this DVD stunt is an attempt to keep the hype machine going for Episode III (since he needs to keep the attention of all the fans who've been let down by I & II). The fact that we only get one disc of extras and half of them are unrelated to the movies is also annoying.

So he's holding out for another edition is my guess, and more revisions. I just hope he comes to his senses and releases the originals. That would shut up all the complaints instantly. If the elite Lucas apologists really wanted all the "fanboys" to "shut up" they'd be in favor of the release of the originals. It only makes sense...

So again, the "original vision" argument, while it's one that Lucas himself makes, is bogus.

As of right now I don't own the original Star Wars movies. None, zero, nadda. All I have is an inferior version of the SE's (pan 'n' scan) on an inferior format (VHS). I can legally purchase some used LaserDisks (off Ebay, hopefully for a reasonable price) along with a LaserDisk player, and hopefully encode them onto DVD-R and get something that will last and looks decent.

Or I could go on ebay and buy the THX Enhanced widescreen VHS box set (hopefully in decent condition) and encode those. It wouldn't look as nice as an encode of the LaserDisks, but at least I'd have the movies in their original forms to view side by side with the "Superior Editions" (heh).

That's not a "bootleg" because it would be something I created myself. Bootlegging implies you're selling that modified version illicitly (which some people are doing and have been doing ever since DVD's came out back in '97). Of course releasing the originals would dry up the bootleg Star Wars dvd market in a hurry.

Kurgan
09-11-2004, 03:01 PM
Argh.. can you tell I've posted these same comments in numerous other threads on this subject? Heh.

Anyway, one more thing I forgot to say...

I DO think that the SFX tweaks we've seen so far look better than the SE tweaks.

The Rancor DOES look better, Jabba DOES look better, etc. I don't mind that stuff at all. Tweak the Jabba scene all you want George, 'cause it wasn't in the original.

The Greedo scene DOES look better than in the SE, but not as good as the original scene, because it made sense for Han to shoot first, it wasn't against his character at all, it was completely logical. Removing shots of Imperial Officers having flames on their chests from where they were shot... um okay. Why did he remove that in the SE? Was he afraid of losing his PG Rating (no chance of that, if anything PG movies get away with a lot more these days, just look at the "extreme by comparison" violence and adult themes in AOTC, a modern PG movie)? Is he afraid that showing humans being killed by the good guys is bad for kids to see? Dunno about that.

So yes, fixing the Special Editions's additions with the 2004 DVD's is fine and dandy. But changing more of the story and character is just stupid. If he's going to do that, make the originals available. If you make a re-edited version of Casablanca where Bogart's character shoots his former lover's husband and says "baby, you and me belong together" and they get married and changes the ending, fine, but don't keep me from the original version if I like that one better.

As we can see, Lucas plain changes his mind. All of these changes he could have made to the SE's in 1997 (the plot/character changes). Don't tell me photoshopping Hayden's face onto Anakin's body couldn't have been done then. Sure, Hayden was only 16 at the time, but still. He looks so dang young (even in his mid 20's) that he'd still need a ton of makeup to look like a 40+ year old. A lot of SFX tweaks that could have been made (like the fizzling out lightsabers in ANH) weren't done for the SE. They were so obvious... why did he waste money making Greedo shoot first when he could have fixed those sabers? I can only imagine that he mismanaged the thing and ran over budget, thus leaving some of those changes on the cutting room floor. It would be interesting to see what he says about that on the 2004 DVD commentaries. But I imagine instead we'll get the usual Lucas "party-line" about how he always intended it this way, and just forget the past.

TK-8252
09-11-2004, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
Removing shots of Imperial Officers having flames on their chests from where they were shot... um okay. Why did he remove that in the SE? Was he afraid of losing his PG Rating (no chance of that, if anything PG movies get away with a lot more these days, just look at the "extreme by comparison" violence and adult themes in AOTC, a modern PG movie)? Is he afraid that showing humans being killed by the good guys is bad for kids to see? Dunno about that.

According to this (http://index.echostation.com/trilogy/detentionblock.htm) site, yes, the burn effects were censored. Things were different in the 90's!

And... silly silly Kurgan... didn't you follow the story? The Imperials are the good guys, and the Rebels are the bad guys. :p

Mike Windu
09-11-2004, 03:16 PM
*cries*

I won't get to see people burn when they get shot? :(

Kain
09-11-2004, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by Pal™
Boo-hoo. You think whining on a forum is ever going to change the last scene?

You think being a smartass is going to get people to like you? You're seriously loosing seriousness points when you make little spoiled prick comments like that.

Troopr-Undr-Fir
09-11-2004, 03:26 PM
I don't understand the big deal with the changes...

George is not some all powerful god that controls everything. Granted he did create the the movies, but he also created a Universe. One that takes A LOT of time and effort create new stories and even modify. He be only a man... And only a man that I have seen some threaten with death. Over a freakin triology that he created and has had the (i think) courtesy of not letting it fall into a black hole and stagnate (ie Star Trek). So if anything we should bow our heads and give thanks (not really, but it gets a point across :p ) to a man that just wants to make a more enjoyable movie series for us the viewers. So if you are someone who thinks GL literally stole something from you... What does a single release mean to the memory you had of first time seeing the Star Destroyer crawling over your head? Memories are forever, not trivial releases.


I strongly encourage you to keep my little tid bit in mind ;)

Kain
09-11-2004, 03:28 PM
OMFG, I don't believe this. You all complain and bitch about how much Hayden sucks, but then you're all on his balls when he's replacing Shaw in RotJ. Make up your damned minds.

Troopr-Undr-Fir
09-11-2004, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by Kain
OMFG, I don't believe this. You all complain and bitch about how much Hayden sucks, but then you're all on his balls when he's replacing Shaw in RotJ. Make up your damned minds.

Why must you always generalise about people. People have opinions, and opinions are not always going to be the same, or how you like them to be. SO that doesn't mean you have to belittle someone for not sharing your views.

Now for the sake of not starting a flame war with someone I like, I will now go masterba... I mean comb my hair. :D

Spider AL
09-12-2004, 10:16 AM
So if anything we should bow our heads and give thanks (not really, but it gets a point across ) to a man that just wants to make a more enjoyable movie series for us the viewers. So if you are someone who thinks GL literally stole something from you... What does a single release mean to the memory you had of first time seeing the Star Destroyer crawling over your head? Memories are forever, not trivial releases.While I agree that some people take it a little too seriously, I hardly think we should thank Lucas.

The original films weren't Lucas' project alone. What about all the fine actors that managed to deliver his crappy lines with CONVICTION? What about Harrison Ford stopping Lucas from giving Han a big pink Ming the Merciless collar? What about all the other people that made what was essentially a badly written, badly realised idea WORK?

He's crapping on them, because in his arrogance he thinks that because he owns the legal rights, he is morally justified in doing what he does, which is degrading classic movies. He's always been the same, changing actor's roles and voices without even notifying them first, taking sole credit for everything... The man's a reprobate of the first water.

Adding Hayden in to RotJ is a disservice to the original actor, who gave of his time and skill to produce the character of Anakin. Adding Hayden is a disservice to the fans who have kept Lucas in his little eutopia of a ranch for years. And worst of all, adding Hayden is the type of revisionist act that is a disservice to HISTORY. Art can't be revised by the artist once it's shown, ESPECIALLY not when the artist didn't create the work alone. Thank god, thank GOD, for fans who have produced rips of the Laserdiscs.

Troopr-Undr-Fir
09-12-2004, 01:33 PM
*ahem*

So if you are someone who thinks GL literally stole something from you... What does a single release mean to the memory you had of first time seeing the Star Destroyer crawling over your head? Memories are forever, not trivial releases.

:dozey:

Mike Windu
09-12-2004, 01:52 PM
Memories are forever.

Now instead of seeing Shaw, I'll forever have the picture of Hayden :p

You do understand that there are people who haven't seen the OT...?

Spider AL
09-12-2004, 02:53 PM
So if you are someone who thinks GL literally stole something from you... What does a single release mean to the memory you had of first time seeing the Star Destroyer crawling over your head? Memories are forever, not trivial releases."Ahem," and saying it twice doesn't make it any less... wrong.

The entire point of buying a medium like DVD is so that you can watch high quality copies of films over and over again. Who wants to watch a revisionist nightmare cut that drives out that which you enjoyed about the original film in the first place AT ALL, let alone repeatedly?

Troopr-Undr-Fir
09-12-2004, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by Spider AL
"Ahem," and saying it twice doesn't make it any less... wrong.

The entire point of buying a medium like DVD is so that you can watch high quality copies of films over and over again. Who wants to watch a revisionist nightmare cut that drives out that which you enjoyed about the original film in the first place AT ALL, let alone repeatedly?


Wrong in your eyes, but not everyone has your eyes :rolleyes:

You do understand that there are people who haven't seen the OT...?

Yeah, so what's the problem? They have the pleasure of seeing it fully realized. I really don't see why a few changes make a difference to them.

Not that I'm saying they shouldn't be able to see the original trilogy. But is it not the same movie? Only with a new coat of paint. :)

Astrotoy7
09-13-2004, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by Troopr-Undr-Fir
.... So if you are someone who thinks GL literally stole something from you... What does a single release mean to the memory you had of first time seeing the Star Destroyer crawling over your head? Memories are forever, not trivial releases.


werdage. I agree with the Troopski.

*hugs Troop*

SW is special to me *today* because of the effect it had on me when I was a kid, and saw *that* scene..... Memories are everything to me.... As for you ppl who havent even seen ANH ... PFFT to you !

hmmm, Kain has been guilty of generalising before....but I think his chickens have come home to roost.... :(

wow, Kurgan, impressive again, who wouldve thought you have a shred of sanity left patrolling the JA forum to be able to make great posts like that... :)

*would hug Kurgan but is scared of him*

mtfbwya

acdcfanbill
09-13-2004, 06:20 AM
alot of the changes are considered wrong in most everyones eyes except george :s

Spider AL
09-13-2004, 06:52 AM
Originally posted by Troopr-Undr-Fir:

Wrong in your eyes, but not everyone has your eyesStating the obvious and avoiding answering the point. Mature debates are not made of this.

ANSWER the point: Why would any of us buy DVDs of our favourite films at all, if all we needed were our original memories? Your assertions make no kind of sense at all.

Originally posted by Troopr-Undr-Fir:

Not that I'm saying they shouldn't be able to see the original trilogy. But is it not the same movie? Only with a new coat of paint.What do you think makes a movie? It's the look, feel and scenes within it. If you change those, of course it's not the same movie. If this were anyone but Lucas they'd be releasing it under the subtitle "producer's cut" and they'd also be providing the original cut on the same medium.

But that's not the point. Hayden's inclusion is the point. It's Georgie Porgie infecting what was not the fruit of his loins alone (the Original Trilogy), with what IS the fruit of his loins alone, the prequels (crap).

He is revising a piece that most of those who saw it enjoyed, and this should not be allowed.

Were the producer of Casablanca still with us, should he be allowed to digitally replace Dooley Wilson with... Kevin Spacey... AND THEN DELETE THE ORIGINAL?

Should the producers of Jaws be allowed to retroactively apply cybernetic paraphernalia to the body of the shark... AND THEN DELETE THE ORIGINAL?

Of course not. And the complaint is that Lucas has made a hash of this new cut by putting the annoying little fool from the prequels into the original trilogy's last scene payoff, AND REFUSES TO RELEASE THE ORIGINAL.

Kain
09-13-2004, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
hmmm, Kain has been guilty of generalising before....but I think his chickens have come home to roost.... :(

:eyeraise: What chickens?

And your right Troopr, I did generalize about everyone hating Christiansen, and now that I think about it, it was mostly people in the Star Wars forums that where bashing him, so...

...he still sucks:D

And my bad for the generalizations: I just think they mind as well have Obi bend Anakin over if they're gonna rape something...

Crazy_dog no.3
09-13-2004, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by TK-8252
According to this (http://index.echostation.com/trilogy/detentionblock.htm) site, yes, the burn effects were censored. Things were different in the 90's!

And... silly silly Kurgan... didn't you follow the story? The Imperials are the good guys, and the Rebels are the bad guys. :p

Uh-oh. I just checked my SW video. It IS censored! ****! I always go the extra mile just to get the more brutal/profane/sexy version of a film (The UK has a horrible history of cutting films), and this toned-down version is the ONLY one available?! Aaargh!

Troopr-Undr-Fir
09-13-2004, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by Spider AL
Stating the obvious and avoiding answering the point. Mature debates are not made of this.

ANSWER the point: Why would any of us buy DVDs of our favourite films at all, if all we needed were our original memories? Your assertions make no kind of sense at all.

What do you think makes a movie? It's the look, feel and scenes within it. If you change those, of course it's not the same movie. If this were anyone but Lucas they'd be releasing it under the subtitle "producer's cut" and they'd also be providing the original cut on the same medium.

But that's not the point. Hayden's inclusion is the point. It's Georgie Porgie infecting what was not the fruit of his loins alone (the Original Trilogy), with what IS the fruit of his loins alone, the prequels (crap).

He is revising a piece that most of those who saw it enjoyed, and this should not be allowed.

Were the producer of Casablanca still with us, should he be allowed to digitally replace Dooley Wilson with... Kevin Spacey... AND THEN DELETE THE ORIGINAL?

Should the producers of Jaws be allowed to retroactively apply cybernetic paraphernalia to the body of the shark... AND THEN DELETE THE ORIGINAL?

Of course not. And the complaint is that Lucas has made a hash of this new cut by putting the annoying little fool from the prequels into the original trilogy's last scene payoff, AND REFUSES TO RELEASE THE ORIGINAL.


Well, my short and sweet sentence before explained it better, but if I have to spell it out... EVERYTHING YOU HAVE JUST WROTE IS YOUR OPINION.

You are entitle to it, but that doesn't make me wrong.

so on that, I am taking myself out of the subject since I guess I don't get my point across well enough. ;)

Kurgan
09-13-2004, 08:48 PM
The issue is NOT that Lucas shouldn't be able to change and modify his own creative works to his heart's desire (that's a strawman argument often put forth by Star Wars fan bashers on the internet to defend Lucas).

Rather, the issue is with Lucas's stubborn refusal to release the ORIGINALS on DVD. Rather, he insists on giving us the option ONLY to purchase these modified versions of the classic films we fans grew up with and supported all these years.

So it's really not the fans who are to blame for Lucas's decision, but Lucas himself. He could easily have avoided all of the fan angst over the Special Editions, etc if he'd just promise to release the originals on DVD as well.

For now we just have "rumors" that sometime in the future, he *might* release another edited version on a better format for the next big anniversary of Star Wars.

And Lucas has tons of money. He could tomorrow decide to cancel the release of the DVD's, and cancel ROTS, and still die a rich man. That's not the point either. The point is that he's not LOSING anything by making both versions (the originals and whatever modern modified version he claims fits his "original vision" these days) available for purchase. As of now, he's losing money to bootleggers and generating negative hype (which may work in his favor, I guess, but I'd say the average person looks at it and says "NERD ALERT!!!" and doesn't care) about it. So he's only hurting himself and his franchise by not giving the fans what they want.

And it's not like other directors haven't made special edition DVD's of their movies and modified them (Alien Quadraligy, Robocop, E.T., Night of the Living Dead, etc)., but they understand that it's important to make the originals available for historical purposes and for those who prefer the originals. Lucas doesn't seem to grasp this. Instead he's stuck in "revisionist" mode, and wishes us to forget the originals ever existed, and his apologists wish us all to "shut up and like it." Well, I disagree.

If you love the changes, think the originals are outdated and shouldn't be released, and agree with everything Lucas says, fine, you're entitled to your opinion. But the rest of us aren't just crazy, it's a perfectly reasonable point of view and expectation.

To each "side" of this debate... the "dont' release original" point of view excludes the rest of us who want the originals. The inclusive view, that the originals should be released allows everyone to be happy, because it doesn't stop the modified versions from also being released. There isn't even an out of print Star Wars Trilogy DVD set we can get off ebay or in some hobby store.

To sum up: it's not the ACT of defacing a classic in order to "update it" that angers me (and many others I imagine), it's the stubborn refusal to make the originals available as an alternative.

Sorry for the rant, like I said, done it before...

CapNColostomy
09-13-2004, 08:54 PM
I posted this earlier in another thread, and thought it might apply here as well.

Originally posted by CapNColostomy
Let me see if I can put this in terms you people can understand. Because you're missing the point. I don't think I own the movies. I know George Lucas owns them. Let's say for instance Robert Plant and Jimmy page from Led Zepplin take up rapping, and mixing and scratching. Now lets say that they decide Stairway to Heaven, a classic song that people have felt was done right the first time around, needs to be overhauled with their new...crap. Yeah, it's theirs, so they CAN do with it whatever they see fit. Does that mean I have to like it? Or be happy about it? Certainly not. Does that mean I'll be buying it? HELL NO. Same with this new bastardized SW trilogy.

ps, I hate LZ and Stairway to Heaven almost as much as I hate GL.

Kurgan
09-13-2004, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
wow, Kurgan, impressive again, who wouldve thought you have a shred of sanity left patrolling the JA forum to be able to make great posts like that... :)

*would hug Kurgan but is scared of him*

mtfbwya [/B]

Heh, I'm honored. ; )

*reminds me of that scene where Dr. Evil is trying to give his son a hug in 'Austin Powers'*

Hey, I think that new Jabba scenes looks "super sweet" but something inside me wants to be secure in the knowledge that I still listen to the choruses of "Yub Nub," avoiding seeing that singing dust bunny and horny Boba Fett, and see Han waste Greedo under the table before the green dude can squeeze off a shot and embarrass himself as the worst bounty hunter in the universe. ; )

And if I have to end the saga seeing that long-haired whiney bratty creep Anakin instead of the world-weary but grateful old man, well, that just sours a lot of otherwise pleasant entertaining memories. I buy DVD's because I know they will last and I can watch them over and over. You know? Hayden did a good job portraying an annoying poorly adjusted young man, which is how Lucas wants Anakin to be at that age. Letting us see him as an old man rounds out the experience, so he doesn't just go from apple-cheeked kid to teen hearthrob and suddenly he's the ultimate evil. Life is a series of transitions. I would think that the "new" Anakin would be older and wiser for his many mistakes, not suddenly a kid again, when the other, nobler Jedi don't get such a reward.

Some stupid "fans" may say they want to flay Lucas alive for "raping their childhood" and that's silly. But Lucas isn't doing this to get back at those people is it? No, he's doing it for some reason known only to himself, one that we fans can't understand.

Kain
09-13-2004, 09:32 PM
CapN, that was poetry.

Spider AL
09-14-2004, 02:39 AM
Originally posted by Troopr-Undr-Fir:

Well, my short and sweet sentence before explained it better, but if I have to spell it out... EVERYTHING YOU HAVE JUST WROTE IS YOUR OPINION.

You are entitle to it, but that doesn't make me wrong.

so on that, I am taking myself out of the subject since I guess I don't get my point across well enough.I see LF is still cursed with a minority that don't feel they have to back up their baseless assertions with any facts or even spurious arguments. What a shame.

Originally posted by Kurgan:

No, he's doing it for some reason known only to himself, one that we fans can't understand.To be honest, I think that the fans figure somewhere in his twisted reasoning. He seems to want to FORCE the prequels into the primary canon, even though they're crap. He doesn't care. He likes them. He wants to make the original films which were the inspired product of many minds and hands, into his nonsensical whimsy alone. He'll be digitally inserting a big pink collar onto Han's outfit next. All the decisions that were ill-advised, that he was dissuaded from making, he will make retroactively, as an act of pure arrogance and ego.

What a bottom that man is.

Astrotoy7
09-14-2004, 06:23 AM
Originally posted by Spider AL
....To be honest, I think that the fans figure somewhere in his twisted reasoning. He seems to want to FORCE the prequels into the primary canon, even though they're crap. .....
What a bottom that man is.

*clicks heels together*

Toto, we're not at LFN anymore, this is TFN Fan Forums ! O No !

:p

mtfbwya

Spider AL
09-14-2004, 03:47 PM
Toto, we're not at LFN anymore, this is TFN Fan Forums ! O No !*puts on French accent*

You know it's true. How nice!

Sam Fisher
09-14-2004, 04:23 PM
Eh... that last scene in RotJ with the ghosts... eeeeww.

Spider AL
09-14-2004, 05:24 PM
I think this says it all.

http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2374

I especially like these:

http://images.somethingawful.com/mjolnir/images/cg09142004/Comeau.jpg

http://images.somethingawful.com/mjolnir/images/cg09142004/osoiman.jpg

Sam Fisher
09-14-2004, 05:47 PM
:rofl:

Those are great :D

Nairb Notneb
09-19-2004, 05:50 PM
Well, all I can say is put me in your ring Kain and that GL is an evil marketing genius. I wonder if he really wants to make his movie better, or if he wants to make his pocket book fatter. He knows that chumps like me that already have the real OT on VHS, the SE OT on VHS are going to go out there and buy the OT on DVD. I feel so gullible and stupid and a moth drawn to the flame. George, just take my money now, please, my wife hates it, she hates it, she hates it. Every time we see a sign or advertisement for the DVD she simply says no. I ignore it and try to think of a way to get it without here knowing it. I have a problem. Hello, my name is Nairb Notneb, and I'm a Star Wars-a-holic.

El Sitherino
09-19-2004, 06:24 PM
What's with you people saying it's all about him wanting more money? Perhaps he just wants it to be more like he envisioned it. Lots of artists re-do their work if they aren't satisfied.
If you don't want to buy it, don't buy it. Just stop complaining, and griping, noone cares if you aren't gonna buy it. Just sit their hugging your original copy VHS' and be gone.

toms
09-20-2004, 04:30 AM
its pretty clear that the "original special editions" that had the cinema re-release were almost entirely done to build hype for the upcoming prequels.
GL looked through the films and his offcuts for any little bits that he could change just so he could claim it was a "special edition" and then made those minor changes.

(Its like the directors say in the intros to the Alien and Alien 4 "director's cuts" - these aren't really director's cuts, as we were happy with the originals - but they are alternate versions we made to give the fans something new for this dvd release). At least they are being honest and also provide the originals.

I don't think GL foresaw that there would be such an outcry about the changes being WORSE, and that (combined with people dissing Ep1) made him angry and stubborn. The more people complained about him, the more he stuch his heals in and resisted. ANd he basically said statements about this being his definitive vision that make it very hard for him to back down and release the originals without loosing face.

You can tell that even HE doesn't believe in some of the changes he made. He is trying to get out of the bad Han Solo changes without going completely back on his word... ending up with something between the two versions.
I don't know why he didn't release a alien quadrilogy style set with BOTH versions though, as it would be a great way to apease the fans and keep face by selling both together.
--------------------------
I have to admit i am still really looking foreward to these, EVEN WITH THE CHANGES. But i figure they have to be better than the special editions, and even a great film with a few bits broken is still a pretty great film.

I'm happy about cleaning up SFX (boxes round ties, rancor etc... - although i must admit i liked the "fuzzier" look to the sabers and blaster bolts in the first film more than the cleaner look in the later ones),

i don't get nonsensical changes that don't make sense (anakin being a young ghost, greedo shooting first)

and there are a number of changes that aren't that bad, but i prefer the original way (extra jabba scene seems pointless as it repeats all the dialogue from the immediately preceeding greedo scene, prefered the old yub yub music at the end of ROTJ etc..)

It'll still be great, but there will always be a bit of my heart that twinges every time there is a new bit and i remember the original.
--------------------------------
The stuff about him "always meaning it this way" is an absolute load of rubbish. Read the original 3 drafts of the SW script. The first two are ENTIRELY DIFFERENT STORIES, the third one begins to resemble ANH, but has almost nothing refering to ESB or ROTJ, let alone events for prequels and sequels.
He may have come up with ideas to add stuff later, or had a rough idea of other stories to tell, but the bit about him always meaning it to be 9 films is rubbish.
(You would think that in the 20 odd years he had to think of it he would have ironed out all the inconsistencies that the prequels introduced as well...)

PS/ Am i the only one who was disappointed to find that this ALL POWERFUL EVIL EMPIRE that i had imagined had been around for decades only lasted about 10 years?
PPS/ Off to pick up my dvds...
PPS/ Almost ALL artists look back on their old work and see things they would do differently, or they want to change. I do it with my WORK for god's sake. But if everyone of them went abck and kept changing it we would never have anything that was finished or released or accepted.

El Sitherino
09-20-2004, 05:11 AM
Originally posted by toms

PS/ Am i the only one who was disappointed to find that this ALL POWERFUL EVIL EMPIRE that i had imagined had been around for decades only lasted about 10 years? I think it's a pretty good run considering they covered multiple galaxies. :p

But yeah, it's a movie, there are always parts you do and don't like in movies, but small bits that you don't like shouldn't make you hate the entire movie.

ET Warrior
09-20-2004, 06:46 AM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
I think it's a pretty good run considering they covered multiple galaxies. :p

But yeah, it's a movie, there are always parts you do and don't like in movies, but small bits that you don't like shouldn't make you hate the entire movie.

Considering that the old Republic lasted what? 10,000 years? I can't remember...but the Empire didn't do very well at ALL :dozey:


As for the likes and dislikes, it's not the fact that there are small bits that I like and dislike. It's the fact that George Lucas is basically giving me the finger and telling me that the movie that I saw and fell in love with is CRAP and his new version is right and I can go ahead and die if I don't like it.

toms
09-20-2004, 07:19 AM
Originally posted by ET Warrior
Considering that the old Republic lasted what? 10,000 years? I can't remember...but the Empire didn't do very well at ALL :dozey:

And even then the old republic handn't managed to reach out to many of the outer systems.

I saw a train station last night that still had "British Rail" on it, even though it hasn't existed as such for almost 10 years... if they can't even get the train station signs sorted in that time, imagine trying to sort out the galaxy.
There would be whole sections of the galaxy that hadn't even GOT THE MEMO that the galaxy was under new management before the emperor fell. :D

interesting quote you all wish GL had read:
Aldous Huxley wrote this in regard to a later edition of Brave New World:

To pore over the literary shortcomings of twenty years ago, to attempt to patch a faulty work into perfection it missed at its first execution, to spend one's middle age in trying to mend the artistic sins committed and bequeathed by that different person who was oneself in youth - all this is surely vain and futile. And that is why this new Brave New World is the same as the old one. Its defects as a work of art are considerable; but in order to correct them I should have to rewrite the book - and in the process of rewriting, as an older, other person, I should probably get rid not only of some of the faults of the story, but also of such merits as it originally possessed. And so, resisting temptation to wallow in artistic remorse, I prefer to leave both well and ill alone and to think about something else.

El Sitherino
09-20-2004, 07:26 AM
Originally posted by ET Warrior
Considering that the old Republic lasted what? 10,000 years? I can't remember...but the Empire didn't do very well at ALL :dozey: hello, dictatorship, it's very remarkable to go that long in that big amount of space fighting rebels. because the military usually gets very spread out, I think it's a good run, but meh.

toms
09-20-2004, 07:55 AM
Few interesting posts from a discussion on slashdot about a GL interview on yahoo.

I've noticed that an artists favorite work is rarely what is considered his or her best work. Artists are generally in love with the idea they had in their head when they were creating, but fans grow to love a work because of the ideas and emotions that flow through it, quite often without the artist's knowing. A piece connects with something inside each individiual audience member, and it's hardly surprising that the artists don't have a firm grasp as to how that works. If they try to rationalize it, they'll likely screw up whatever it was that was working.

However, Lucas said that the vision in his head is not what went into the actual movie (something like 20-30% he said). So people responded to what was actually made and not what he would consider a "complete" movie.

It's like this is the movie I wanted it to be, and I'm sorry you saw half a completed film and fell in love with it.

So basically what he says is, he got lucky with Star Wars. Because what he wanted to make was garbage. Look at the prequels - he had much more control over these, and comparatively they sucked. They are tripe on their own, without using the original three as a crutch.

So the movies that people loved, and built his "empire" (so to speak) were not his true vision. We have seen his vision, and it isn't that great. So I think it is time to stop giving Lucas any credit for the first three movies. He doesn't want it, and he apparently doesn't deserve it. Actually, the more control he had, the worse the movies got. It was kind of obvious to me that he had more control with ROTJ, because of the Ewoks and some of the direction the story took. I am almost looking forward to EPIII - not to see it, but just to see how bad it is.

http://movies.yahoo.com/news/ap/20040915/109528362000.html

GL comments on mesing with movies:
“Star Wars” creator George Lucas, who testified with Steven Spielberg before Congress in the 1980s against colorization and other forms of alteration, said the process yanks such slapstick performers as the Stooges out of the black-and-white universe they belong in.

“Would color distract from their comedy and make it not as funny anymore?” Lucas said. “Maybe just the fact that they’re in black and white makes it funny, because their humor is dated. But by putting it in black and white, it puts it in a context where you can appreciate it for what it was.

“But you try to make it in full living color and try to compare it to a Jim Carrey movie, then it’s hard for young people to understand. Because you’re then thinking you’re comparing apples to apples, when you’re not. You’re comparing apples to oranges. I’m saying it’s not fair to the artist.”

Samuel Dravis
09-20-2004, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by toms
GL comments on mesing with movies:
“Star Wars” creator George Lucas, who testified with Steven Spielberg before Congress in the 1980s against colorization and other forms of alteration, said the process yanks such slapstick performers as the Stooges out of the black-and-white universe they belong in.

“Would color distract from their comedy and make it not as funny anymore?” Lucas said. “Maybe just the fact that they’re in black and white makes it funny, because their humor is dated. But by putting it in black and white, it puts it in a context where you can appreciate it for what it was.

“But you try to make it in full living color and try to compare it to a Jim Carrey movie, then it’s hard for young people to understand. Because you’re then thinking you’re comparing apples to apples, when you’re not. You’re comparing apples to oranges. I’m saying it’s not fair to the artist.”
Hehe. I guess he forgot. Starting to look like Kerry. :p

Kurgan
09-20-2004, 01:12 PM
toms: Very insightful comments.

Most of my comments relating to the DVD changes have been "Why George, Why?" and "is this guy a hypocrite or what?" type stuff. But your theories sound very plausible insight into the man's thinking from his actions over the past 7 years.

I feel sorry for GL in the way that he takes so much flak from fans, but on the other hand I feel like he brings much of it on himself (and being famous this comes with the territory). Perhaps he really doesn't realize the effect it has, and doesn't want to lose face from it.

Nairb Notneb
09-20-2004, 01:57 PM
Insane Sith, I will be buying this DVD because it is Star Wars. I believe that the OT is cannon and should be made available and that GL has every right to do whatever he wants to his work, it is his. However, it would be nothing without the galactic sized fan base that only Star Wars has. Nothing else has the fan base that SW has, nothing. Knowing that to be true, GL owes something to all of us, for all of the love and heart that we have poured out into SW over the years from ourselves. We have spent countless hours role-playing in one way or another, be it in video games, in the movies themselves, in books, comics, action figures, role playing, costumes, Christmas and Ewok TV specials, cartoons, Burger King glasses, sc-fi conventions, nerd jokes, web sites, forums you name it we did it and old GL the living Force himself has made millions off of us, so we deserve to one true trilogy in tact on dvd if we want it. I guarantee that in enough time, he will make it available, he will finally add the Biggs and Luke and Tashy (spelling) Station scene, the Wampa attack on Hoth scene and the alternate ending where Lando dies so that we can all have it. Why? Because we want it and he knows we will buy it. We are nuts for this stuff like its a drug or something, I know it and I don't care, SW is a part of my life, my childhood and now my adult hood and now also a part of my children's lives as well and I love it so give me the OT and I want it now!!! Thank you, I'm Nairb Notneb and I approved this message.

Kain
09-20-2004, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by Spider AL
I think this says it all.

http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2374

I especially like these:

http://images.somethingawful.com/mjolnir/images/cg09142004/Comeau.jpg

http://images.somethingawful.com/mjolnir/images/cg09142004/osoiman.jpg

A smile has found its way to my face. Kudos to you sir, kudos.

@Kurgan: Poetry as usual.

toms
09-20-2004, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
toms: Very insightful comments.

I should point out they weren't my comments, just ones that i saw on slashdot and thought made some sense and were worth reposting. (incase i get tragetted by mad slashdotters for stealing their quotes :D )

The bill and ted bit in that last picture made me laugh.

I just watched ANH and i'm gonna post my comments/review in the other "official thread". (including comments on changes as they are now).

Nairb Notneb
09-21-2004, 08:59 AM
If those had been the changes that GL had really made (especially the AT-AT's) then nobody would have cried about it. I like the scream mask on the Scout Trooper. Nice touch especially when you make the 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon connection with Wicket to Courtney Cox type of a thing in this. The actor that played Wicket played the Leprechaun with Jennifer Anniston (her first movie before Friends) and JA of course knows Courtney and she was in Scream. Freaky aint it?

Samuel Dravis
09-21-2004, 07:18 PM
http://img60.exs.cx/img60/317/gl_withgrima1.jpg

The real reason behind GL's changing the movies? :D

My work, brother's idea. :cool:

ET Warrior
09-21-2004, 09:49 PM
Posted because it's relevant :)

http://penny-arcade.com/images/2004/20040922l.jpg

Kain
09-22-2004, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by ET Warrior
Posted because it's relevant :)

http://penny-arcade.com/images/2004/20040922l.jpg

Exaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaactly.

Darth Rythe
09-22-2004, 02:15 AM
Originally posted by TK-8252
(i.e. the Stormtrooper bumping his head on the door in ANH -_-).

I watched a Documentary the other day where the actor that playerd that trooper said it was in the script, Lucas confirmed it.
It's surposed to make S-troopers look dumb, which I think they've sucseeded in doing.

Hiroki
09-22-2004, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by ET Warrior
Considering that the old Republic lasted what? 10,000 years? I can't remember...but the Empire didn't do very well at ALL :dozey:

Old Republic = 25,000 years old. Empire = Roughly 24 years up until its fall a few years after ROTJ.

Kurgan
09-23-2004, 04:45 AM
Well AOTC says that the Republic is 1,000 years old (Palpatine: "I will not let this Republic, which has stood for a thousand years, be split in two!").

But then that contradicts what Obi-Wan said in ANH ("for over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic").

The EU tries to explain it somehow with wars or reunifications or something, I haven't read it, only heard about it third hand, so don't quote me on it.

Nairb Notneb
09-23-2004, 06:18 AM
Both Palpatiness and Obi-Wans statements could be true at the same time, from a certain point of view (I love that line, use it as often as I can, gets me out of trouble, Clinton should have tried it). "This Republic...for 1000 years" can be true because maybe it's current "constitution" has been in effect for that long making it the current "Republic". Also, maybe there have been other Republics under different written constitutions that have existed for about 1000 generations (a generation being about 20 years or so giving us about 20,000 years) in which the Jedi have been the protectors of. If you look at the good old U.S.A., we became a country in 1776, won our independence (yes, we are rebels to, and the Force was with us) several years later. Our constitution wasn't written until 1787, 11 years after our independence. For those 11 years we operated under the Articles of Confederation and had other Presidents besides George Washington. GW was the first President of the U.S.A. under the Constitution, but not the U.S.A. So, from a certain point of view, both time frames can be true.