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Imladil
12-19-1999, 12:28 AM
Testing...

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"The entire universe is simply the fractal chaos boundary between intersecting domains of high and low energy."

--Imladil the Zoomunit

"Crystal magic helps the elementally disabled."

--Little Jimmy

Imladil
12-19-1999, 12:40 AM
Okay, Now I know it's working here...

I just visited XWA.Net and was surprised to discover that I was "banned!"

The last I recall, there was a rather controversial topic we were discussing under the heading "The Supernatural," and it was quickly turning into an Imladil versus everyone else type deal. Is this the reason I was banned?

I used no profanity, and I wasn't attacking anyone else's belief systems (just standing up for my own.) I don't recall anyone warning me that I was heading into a topic that would get me banned, or any such official word. Just...banned. Is there some kind of technical difficulty at work, or is there actually some kind of hideous censorship going on? I sure hope not--not after I went to lengths to insist to others on this forum that censorship was not a problem here...

Anyway, I hope this gets straightened out. If I am banned from that forum for that reason, I will not be posting here any longer, either. Consider it my protest in support of freedom of speech.

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"The entire universe is simply the fractal chaos boundary between intersecting domains of high and low energy."

--Imladil the Zoomunit

"Crystal magic helps the elementally disabled."

--Little Jimmy




[This message has been edited by Imladil (edited December 18, 1999).]

Lt Guilo
12-19-1999, 01:56 AM
Calm down, man..... are you AOL? If so, then that's the reason. If not, then I don't know what's up...but I do know that if somebody were to ban you there, they'd TELL YOU, directly. I don't think you actually were banned, myself, but IF you were, then you'd know it for certain, and why.

I'll mention it to Stealth just the same. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/smile.gif

Imladil
12-19-1999, 04:39 AM
Thanks, Lieutenant...

No, I'm not AOL! That's what's so weird about it...! My roommate uses a small local provider; heck, I'm probably the only one on that provider who posts here!

Sorry. I'm just hella mad, because there was a serious misunderstanding going on in that thread, and I wanted to jump in and clear it up. It appears that everyone was under the impression that I actually perform the magic/psychic type stuff I was discussing--I was just pointing out which of our witch sterotypes were based on actual practices and which were fiction...not saying that I practiced them or even advocated practicing them.

I'm just a simple Christian mystic, dangit! My approach to spirituality might make me a heretic ( http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/wink.gif), but I'm not some far-out New Age sorcerer who plays with tarot cards and reads palms. I am interested in these things as I'm interested in all of mankind's spiritual practices, but I don't practice them myself (the "crystal magic" I was talking about is nothing more complicated than displaying pretty rocks at key points in my home.) Grrrrrrr...!

Sorry to rant here. It's just frustrating not being able to address this where it should go--XWA.

Oh--and just for the record, I never want to imply that what you believe is wrong. I think that anyone who follows a religious doctrine and benefits from it is a winner no matter what others think. I consider myself a Christian, although I disagree with a lot of what the church has to say. But the connection between you and God, that I celebrate...and I hope you celebrate my connection as well http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/smile.gif. The rest of this disagreement is between people about ideas, nothing to do with that connection at all.

I sure hope this is just a technical thing. There is a lot I would post at XWA on this matter!

Anyway. Imladil out. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/smile.gif


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"The entire universe is simply the fractal chaos boundary between intersecting domains of high and low energy."

--Imladil the Zoomunit

"Crystal magic helps the elementally disabled."

--Little Jimmy

Lt Guilo
12-19-1999, 04:05 PM
K, well - your connection to XWA ought to be the one you celebrate. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/wink.gif I think your I.P. or something was banned by mistake, although Stealth wasn't exactly clear on this...there was a HUGE list of ISPs that included some hilariously-large domains in his reply to my post about this, and I think that may mean that he's working on it. Have you tried posting there yet?

Conor
12-19-1999, 09:39 PM
If the admins banned people for disagreeing with them there would be people that are a lot further from than you from certain beliefs that would be long gone, but they don't. Apparently a lot of people have been getting that 'banned' message for whatever reason.

On the 'discussion' note, I think I caught you Imladil! You said you dont' mean to imply that others' beliefs are wrong, then you said you disagree with what the church says. That means you think the church is mistaken, or wrong in other words. Besides, my doctrine says yours is wrong, you think yours is right, therefore you think mine is wrong. HARHARHAR!

Sorry, I just can't help attacking your statements that all beliefs are valid or whatever you say. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/smile.gif

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Right is right even if nobody is doing it, and wrong is wrong even if everybody is doing it.
-St. Augustine

Lujayne
12-19-1999, 09:55 PM
Imladil? Did everything get worked out? I hope we don't lose you over here!
--L.

Imladil
12-20-1999, 12:36 AM
I'm back. I guess it was just technical. Uh...SORRY! D'oh!

Anyway, I think you caught me on a good logic point, Conor, although not one in my philosophy itself per se. It all comes back to that words-being-poor-subsitutes-for-concepts-which-are-poor-substitutes-for-higher-reality thing...

I'll try to clarify myself a little: I think that the church delivers a distorted message, mainly about the validity of other religions. That doesn't mean I think it doesn't do good work, or bring people to the loving embrace of the Holy Spirit. We humans are faulty creatures, and so naturally we're going to have a hard time getting the wholeness of greater reality into one religion, without any distortion. But...we must still try. And we can always learn something by trying. Besides, it's the best religion we have at the time. So yes, men like yourself are right for what they are doing, IMHO, but I still think the facts and philosophies can be questioned.

Whew! Waffles anyone?

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"The entire universe is simply the fractal chaos boundary between intersecting domains of high and low energy."

--Imladil the Zoomunit

"Crystal magic helps the elementally disabled."

--Little Jimmy

Lt Guilo
12-20-1999, 07:43 AM
None for me, thanks.

And Lujayne, your Admin status now means YOU must take an active role in preventing discussions like this one from turning ugly, if it ever does. So please, keep that in mind before you get one started here.

Lujayne
12-20-1999, 10:07 AM
I'll make sure it doesn't get ugly... http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/smile.gif

Imladil
12-20-1999, 10:18 AM
Smilies help. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/smile.gif http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/wink.gif http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/smile.gif

Conor
12-20-1999, 12:54 PM
I can accept you believe that my religion is wrong, there are any number of reasons why people could think so.

I just hope someday you realize there is only one correct path to follow God. I think you are saying that different beliefs that disagree with each other can both be valid. Maybe it is just me, but that seems to insult God in that He is supposedly telling one group that one way is right and another group that another way is right.

Why would God give and accept different standards for different people? Wouldn't it be far more likely for God to lay out one correct path for all people?

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Right is right even if nobody is doing it, and wrong is wrong even if everybody is doing it.
-St. Augustine

Conor
12-20-1999, 11:57 PM
Okay, I guess now is as good a time as any to get something clarified.

I don't mind when somebody disagrees, or even attacks, my religion. I welcome it because it gives me an excuse to start spouting what I consider is the Truth. I don't have anything to lose from arguing religion; after all, I'm right. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/smile.gif

But, if you (Imladil or others) are of that group of people that for whatever reason get upset when you get into an argument (I was positively shocked when I found out some people don't like to argue, I THRIVE on it) then let me know and I will desist from religious discourse unless someone starts a topic with discussion in mind (or someone says something factually untrue, which Imladil almost hit on with his inquizition comment).

In the interest of what could probably be a good friendship, I won't get into religion with you, Imladil, if it is truly bothering you.

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Right is right even if nobody is doing it, and wrong is wrong even if everybody is doing it.
-St. Augustine

Imladil
12-21-1999, 01:55 AM
It doesn't bother me at all! It does, however, bring out the very worst in some people. This is a public forum, which means that everyone from practicing Wiccas, to evangelists, to Eskimoes will be in on the conversation. Sadly, some will always wind up fighting with each other, because our world has such a broad range of belief systems.

There will always be people like me who want to share their beliefs; if some agree, good--if not, great. There will always be people like you who want to civilly debate the topic; sincere concern makes you want others to agree. And there will always be some who are looking to condemn those who don't agree with them; period.

That is why I started an e-mail list at WWW.ONElist.com (http://WWW.ONElist.com) just for discussing this topic. No one's been submitting to it, so I quit applying my time...but there's nothing to stop folks from subscribing to the list and getting things going again. It's called "Mystic Warrior" if anyone (and I do mean anyone http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/wink.gif) wants to talk religion over.

I'll answer direct questions here, but I'll avoid getting into the same kind of discussion as happened at XWA. That was an utter disaster, as far as I'm concerned--bad vibes, misunderstandings, random damnings...you name it. I don't want to talk with people in that kind of setting--I prefer good and positive.

It is a shame, but this is an attitude I feel I must take for the sake of all. I enjoy discussing religion/metaphysics--it's one of my favorite topics. But whenever I do, people seem to think I'm trying to convert them...

Oh, well. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/wink.gif


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"The entire universe is simply the fractal chaos boundary between intersecting domains of high and low energy."

--Imladil the Samurai

"If dolphins had thumbs, would we still be in control of the planet?"

--Little Jimmy

Stealth
12-21-1999, 09:47 AM
For the most part we don`t care what people choose to discuss, certain topics seem to have a habit of getting out of hand, religious and personal beliefs ,being so vastly different from one person to the next, the result usually ends up one person trying to convert another , of course this doesn`t happen, so it`s a stalemate with one or more persons spewing off about their belief and how great or bad it is.

For that reason we normally end up closing those type of topics to keep the peace.

A good example was the last one at XWA, whether it really had any bearing on why a bunch of people ended up getting banned messages or not , i still don`t know. I know why people ended up getting those messages,but not sure what exactly transpired. Whether it was an accident,misunderstanding etc, an ip was entered or modified that resulted in aprox 50 servers being banned.

Like Lt guilo said if we had actualy banned someone there would be a note. Sometimes it is necessary to remove a person,but in the process other people are affected as well,while we try to target the individual , it is not always possible.

It has happened where a friend or brother etc has borrowed/used a persons computer to create a rukus on the forums. We can not ban the brother,friend etc, in that case it is up to the person that owns the computer to ensure it is used properly, in that case he is the one that will suffer the concquences in the long run.



[This message has been edited by Stealth (edited December 21, 1999).]

Conor
12-21-1999, 11:05 AM
I haven't posted at ONElist for a long time because I thought I might have scared everyone away. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/frown.gif

After that Sascha guy made some factually mistaken comments about the Catholic Church I delved into a long article correcting some of them and nobody posted there again. I got the impression they didn't really want to discuss religion so I didn't really have anything else to say.

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Right is right even if nobody is doing it, and wrong is wrong even if everybody is doing it.
-St. Augustine

Imladil
12-21-1999, 01:09 PM
Hmm. That's funny. Here I thought it was my talking about reincarnation and pulling magic rocks out of my *** that scared the conversation away.

I tried inviting those new people into the conversation, but they never posted anything. Then everyone shut up. I thought it was everyone quietly telling me my views were too far out. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/wink.gif

Anyway, reading back over your earlier post, Conor, I caught that you seemed concerned that our friendship had been threatened. It wasn't. In that whole line, your tone remained respectfully debateful, and I was glad for it.

I'm glad to see that I wasn't officially banned, Stealth. When that message first popped up, I thought I'd finally stumbled over the line somewhere... http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/wink.gif The next time religion comes up like that, I think I'll just avoid it altogether. Provided I can still post the really out there stuff that no one understands well enough to disagree with.

Radio Free Saturn out. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/wink.gif

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"The entire universe is simply the fractal chaos boundary between intersecting domains of high and low energy."

--Imladil the Samurai

"If dolphins had thumbs, would we still be in control of the planet?"

--Little Jimmy

Conor
12-22-1999, 02:25 PM
As a general rule I don't think I should keep rattling on about my beliefs if it is endangering a friendship (after all, trying to convince people of your side is all well and good, but it won't work if you turn them against you anyway).

People can have differing beliefs and still be friends, up to a point of course: certain beliefs lead to lifestyles that almost destroy any chance of even a civil relationship.



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Right is right even if nobody is doing it, and wrong is wrong even if everybody is doing it.
-St. Augustine

Imladil
12-23-1999, 12:22 AM
I registered at the Podracers forum (the link is on the RS.Net home page) under the name Zoom Rabbit. I noticed that there's an extensive topic there on God being real; I haven't checked into it yet, but if it's civil, I might jump in a little.

Maybe if we went in there slinging Catholicism and New Age mysticism from two different angles, we could shoot up the saloon and have our way with the women... (I am so totally joking, now! http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/wink.gif)

<font color=red>BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!</font> Yee-HAW! <font color=red>BANG! BANG!</font><font size=1> Click! Click!</font> Dangit.

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"The entire universe is simply the fractal chaos boundary between intersecting domains of high and low energy."

--Imladil the Samurai

"If dolphins had thumbs, would we still be in control of the planet?"

--Little Jimmy

Conor
12-24-1999, 01:07 AM
I have a fairly simply way of proving God is real.

Ask skeptic: Do you exist?

If he answers yes, next question: How exactly do you suppose that happened?

I have never heard any reasonable answer to that that doesn't include God. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/wink.gif

By the way, if he answers no to the first question ask him to explain what exactly is his status in reality then. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/smile.gif

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Right is right even if nobody is doing it, and wrong is wrong even if everybody is doing it.
-St. Augustine

Lt Guilo
12-24-1999, 08:41 PM
K, for arguments' sake, I shall attempt to play the antagonist, just this once....to give Conor a chance to "stretch his legs" for a bit. I know how much he LOVES to argue... http://indigo.ie/~owenc/starwars/images/PBsmile1a.gif

Conor, what if he snaps back with a "cutesy" retort like, "...Define 'exist'."???

(Remember, this only an exercise. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/wink.gif)

Conor
12-24-1999, 08:52 PM
I did here a very good response to that once.

Something about 'if you can define "exist" you have proven your existence'. I am not even sure if it is possible to come up with a way of explaining that we don't exist. I have never heard anyone that seriously believes he or anyone else doesn't exist. It really is a silly response, and as such cannot really be responded to. http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/smile.gif

I know there probably is an actual response to it, but for the life of me I can't think of it right now.

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Right is right even if nobody is doing it, and wrong is wrong even if everybody is doing it.
-St. Augustine

Conor
12-24-1999, 08:58 PM
Basically, if you actually do manage to explain how you don't exist, you've managed to prove you do exist by explaining it! http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/smile.gif

Basically, the entire atheist argument comes down to this one, unscientific excuse: Umm, it just happened. That is all they have. They can't explain origins, methods, compositions or anything else in reality using purely scientific reasoning. It all boils down to the theist getting frustrated and blurting "Well how did the bloody things get there in the first place!?"

Whether 'bloody things' refers to matter, the laws of physics, the way atoms behave in quantum mechanics, or a host of other things.

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Right is right even if nobody is doing it, and wrong is wrong even if everybody is doing it.
-St. Augustine

Imladil
12-25-1999, 02:19 AM
I...think...therefore...I...am.

Lt Guilo
12-25-1999, 03:23 AM
Of course, Imladil's outlook would read,

"I....think....therefore...I....SPAM..." http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/biggrin.gif

Heek, and-a heek, and-a heek-heek-heek! http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/biggrin.gif

Imladil
12-26-1999, 02:24 AM
Spam? It's okay one you've grilled or fried it. Raw, steamed or baked...nope. Keep it.

Spam can be used for serious culinary work; just like a microwave, it has its place in the kitchen when used properly. As a uniformly textured preserved meat, it is well suited to any situation where you want the meat to take a very specific shape: canapes, visual-type nouvelle cuisine presentation, just to point you in the general direction. It does not, however get diced and thrown in a salad like any old ham!

How'd I do? http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/wink.gif

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"The entire universe is simply the fractal chaos boundary between intersecting domains of high and low energy."

--Imladil the Wanderer

"If Jupiter obeys liquid rules of physics, wouldn't it be teardrop-shaped?"

--Little Jimmy

Lt Guilo
12-26-1999, 05:16 AM
....Amazingly well, much to my chagrin. *(j\k)* http://www.roguesquadron.net/forums/wink.gif