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lukeiamyourdad
09-30-2004, 07:45 PM
Yes indeed, nothing is happening here.
Seems like we ran out of discussions except for battle reports. Oh well...

So I guess the handful of people here are getting somewhat bored or something.

We still have to see some updated templates(I think). Oh well just trying to start somekind of conversation.

DK_Viceroy
09-30-2004, 11:21 PM
Looks like the effects of my return have worn off I stopped responding to most htreads when vostok created that Geonosian Thread.

swphreak
10-01-2004, 08:08 AM
Well... I guess we could all get Carbon Freezed and await DMUK's confirmation and some information on "SWGB2."

At least we know most of us is here from the weekly games.

Admiral Vostok
10-01-2004, 01:25 PM
Yes, things have gotten so quiet here even I am only visiting every second day.

Funny how Viceroy has to blame everything on me :rolleyes: I can't wait for Episode III to come out so I can prove his assumptions about the Geonosians incorrect.

DK_Viceroy
10-01-2004, 01:45 PM
Careful Now Vostok I know lot's of things I can throw in your face now especially your penchant for doing Geonosian Voice Over's

I can barely Contain myself laughing some of this stuff is so laughable

I'd be happy to do most of the voice work, except that everyone might end up sounding similar... ooh! I can even do Geonosian voices!

I never would have though you so Arrogant vostok how hillarious

I Laugh At He Who Thinks He Can DO A Geonosian Voice Over Without Being Castrated In The Process Or Being Turned Into An Iguana

DarthMaulUK
10-01-2004, 02:35 PM
I will be there Sunday for reporting for battle!

DMUK

lukeiamyourdad
10-01-2004, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by DK_Viceroy

I Laugh At He Who Thinks He Can DO A Geonosian Voice Over Without Being Castrated In The Process Or Being Turned Into An Iguana

I'm sure Michael Winslow can do it.

Darth Windu
10-01-2004, 08:15 PM
Well i've been pretty busy with uni for the past few weeks, especially this week with four assignments due.

Because of that i really havent been around here a great deal, though i have edited my SWGB2 template slightly and will probably change it more now i'm on holidays for a week.

DK_Viceroy
10-02-2004, 12:43 AM
Well personally I think that the Geonosian voices the ones like the Geonosian Drones in the game sound like an Iguana for some reason. I don't think those were made by something human.

FroZticles
10-02-2004, 02:14 AM
Maybe because Geonosians are not human.

Iguanas don't sounds like that at all....

DK_Viceroy
10-02-2004, 03:20 AM
I don't know why but it sounds like an Iguana to me

lukeiamyourdad
10-02-2004, 05:50 AM
They don't sound like reptiles at all.

Admiral Vostok
10-02-2004, 11:22 AM
Why do you think I can't do a Geonosian voice over? :confused: If Ben Burtt can do it, I don't see why I can't. Plus you've never even met me, how would you know what I can and cannot do?

Why is it that nearly all of Viceroy's posts recently have been mocking me? :mad:

DK_Viceroy
10-02-2004, 12:17 PM
I'm trying to bring back some sort of conversation since most topics seem to arise out of arguments.

Admiral Vostok
10-02-2004, 02:10 PM
Well since no conversation has arisen from your arguing-for-the-sake-of-arguing I suggest a new strategy is needed.

DK_Viceroy
10-02-2004, 04:01 PM
I'm presently working on a new idea that's tied in with some of the old ones but won't have anything to do with rediculous Template discussion because that started the decline in the first place.

FroZticles
10-02-2004, 11:55 PM
The decline was bound to happen sooner or later. The game on the zone is dead. The puzzlebox era which was short lived, added to the arguments. I think LA rejected his ideas and he is hiding in a darkened room, never to see daylight again.

DK_Viceroy
10-03-2004, 03:50 AM
Everything about Puzzlebox was correct and if you all remeber I'd even said as much while he was still amongst us.

The good thing is we no longer have that arrogant little sod in our midst.

Every game has it's peaks and troughs this is just a low period as the new film nears completion and publicity rises unless SWGB 2 has made it's apperance by then people will buy SWGB

Nairb Notneb
10-03-2004, 06:05 AM
Ok, I'm back. Miss me? Doesn't matter. Four hurricanes and a lot of overtime. I haven't heard your "iguana" voices yet for the Geonosians, but I have had two iguanas as pets in my lifetime, and they never made a peep. They are good swimmers though. Oh, their tails make a crack sound when they whip you with them.

lukeiamyourdad
10-03-2004, 06:23 AM
Originally posted by DK_Viceroy
The good thing is we no longer have that arrogant little sod in our midst.


Yes but we're still stuck with you.

j/k

DK_Viceroy
10-03-2004, 07:05 AM
How could anyone even joke that i'm anything like Pezzlebex since i'm not arrogant and I don't consider everyone else a lower life form like Pezzle did.

Maybe he's lying in a hospital freezer somewhere with a white sheet over him and a tag tied to his big toe.

:bdroid2: We Can Only Hope :bdroid2:

Admiral Vostok
10-03-2004, 09:20 AM
On the subject of Geonosians and Iguanas, having played as the Confederacy in our games yesterday I think I know what you mean. The Geonosian Drones certainly make funny sounds that although I've never heard an Iguana I can see why you might imagine them sounding like that. I was referring to Geonosian Warriors and Geonosian Fighters, who make more human sounds. These are the Geonosians I claim to be able to impersonate, not the more animalistic grunts and squawks of the Geonosian Drones.

Just clearing that up for my number one critic Viceroy.

DK_Viceroy
10-03-2004, 09:30 AM
I think it would be very easy to duplicate the Geonosian fighter sounds which for some very strange reason sounds like Jooku Chags Dooks which sounds more like dooku shags dogs no why would LA wants something like that in i wonder.

Vostok your worth Ctriquing because You seem very knowledgable about EU as much as you claim to be knowledgable about the films

and it seems like this forum has had the kiss of life administeredd to it.

AS always my presence ensures friendly and in some cases not so freindly debates or in some cases just down right arguing.

Admiral Vostok
10-03-2004, 09:35 AM
So you no longer believe you wouldLaugh At He Who Thinks He Can DO A Geonosian Voice Over Without Being Castrated In The Process Or Being Turned Into An Iguana?

I am no where near as knowledgable on EU as I am on the films as I'm sure you are aware. However the fact remains that to be Lord of the Purists, you must have some understanding of that which you are rejecting.

DK_Viceroy
10-03-2004, 09:39 AM
Whatever

Though why on earth would LA put such daft words in the mouthes of Geonosian Pilots and Warriors

Admiral Vostok
10-03-2004, 10:38 AM
I think it's your imagination.

DK_Viceroy
10-03-2004, 10:39 AM
If it's my imagination then it will rain Duck eggs tommorow all over the world.

Admiral Vostok
10-03-2004, 10:43 AM
Well I've never heard Geonosians saying "Dooku shags dogs", so I think you're just hearing what isn't really there. As a student of Linguistics I can tell you this is a common phenomenon.

DK_Viceroy
10-03-2004, 10:47 AM
I'll find a recodring of it.

Is their ANYTHING you don't CLAIM to be a scholar of:liam

Nairb Notneb
10-03-2004, 11:49 AM
I say you make a recording of yourself doing the Geo voices and post it here. It would be a great thread.

DK_Viceroy
10-03-2004, 12:24 PM
I don't claim to tb ethe expert in doing them vostok however does.

Nairb Notneb
10-03-2004, 12:54 PM
That's ok, maybe we should all do our own impressions and post them?

Admiral Vostok
10-03-2004, 07:18 PM
I am a Scholar of Star Wars. That means I know just about everything about it. Knowledge of Star Wars is the only thing I claim to be an expert of.

I am a Student of Film and Television, Linguistics and Drama. This means I've studied them at length in at University. I don't claim to be an expert but I do know more than the average Joe.

I am a Professional Software Developer. This means it is my job to design, write and implement software. As such I have a pretty good idea of how software companies work, though again I'm not an expert.

I hope that clears up what I am and am not an expert of.

FroZticles
10-03-2004, 07:28 PM
With all these University courses I wonder where you found the time to become a Star Wars Scholar. :p

Nairb Notneb
10-05-2004, 03:07 AM
Vostok you are a very busy person. I wish I was an expert at something. I know more about Star Wars than the average Joe, but I am not an expert. I can hold my own in these forums though and I have given most folks here good run for their proverbial money. I still have much to learn, but I have found that I am full of surprises. Sometimes, I've even amazed myself.

Do you guys ever do that? Sneak in lines from Star Wars into a conversation just to see if the person notices? I do it to my wife and kids all of the time and it drives them nuts.

Anyway, sorry for getting sidetracked there. Being an "expert" and well versed in a subject are two very different tings but are both to be commended I think. I there are fields of study that one enjoys then I say spend time in them and pursue them and share your knowledge with others, that's why you make the time for those areas.

Good job Vostok, way to go.

Besides, it's not bragging if it's the truth.

FroZticles
10-05-2004, 05:13 AM
I can safely say I never make geonosian noises or sneak SW lines into my sentences. If I did I would be worried ;)

swphreak
10-05-2004, 08:52 AM
I think Vostok should clarify about what Star Wars he knows. I'm very sure I know more EU than he does. Just like he knows basically everything about the movies that I don't know.

And don't start with this EU isn't Star Wars crap. It's not "canon" but it is in the chronology... or something.

¬¬

DK_Viceroy
10-05-2004, 09:54 AM
Well actually in the case of Episode 3 EU will be vital because i've quoted it somewhere else but i'll give the genral gist not only has George aprroved of a new wave of EU he's given it it's blessing because He is restricted to blending EP 1 and 2 to 4,5 and 6 so he can't put in a whole lot about the clone wars so the Novels need to fill in that gap as well as explain why General Grevious is such a fearsome enemy.

Vostok do you claim to know most things in there subjects and star wars i'm wondering?

Admiral Vostok
10-05-2004, 11:30 AM
Phreak: Naturally as a Purist when I say I am an expert on Star Wars I am talking about the movies, the only true Star Wars. To me there is Star Wars and Star Wars EU, to others there is Star Wars Movies and Star Wars EU. So to clarify, I'm an expert on Star Wars Movies.

Nairb: Indeed I'm always using Star Wars lines in conversation. When I haven't done something for a while I'll say "I've not done that since, oh, before you were born" which usually raises the eyebrows of whoever I'm talking to.

Vostok do you claim to know most things in there subjects and star wars i'm wondering?Please rephrase into a grammatically correct sentence so I can understand what you are asking.

DK_Viceroy
10-05-2004, 12:09 PM
Vostok do you claim to know most things in the subjects which you claim to be a scholar of?

I am after all curious An answer to that would certainly help me undertsand you more from a philosophical view and make our matches very interesting.

Nairb Notneb
10-05-2004, 05:22 PM
Well, GL use to be very wary about the EU. I heard a story of when Tops trading cards made a card of "Yodas" that had a lot of information about his species on it with several other beings just like him on it. Evidently GL had a major "cow" and the card was never produced. Now he seems to be holding its hand at least with the prequels. He brought in Aeyla Secura from the EU, he didn't create her and that's odd for GL. Unless he has a thing for blue women.

Admiral Vostok
10-05-2004, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by DK_Viceroy
Vostok do you claim to know most things in the subjects which you claim to be a scholar of?Well yes, since the only thing I claim to be a Scholar of is Star Wars, and I know everything about Star Wars (movies).

Nairb, indeed for the most part George Lucas rejects EU. Yet there is the odd case of one or two things he has taken from the EU:
1) Aayla Secura (the blue female Twi'lek Jedi)
2) The name Coruscant
and possibly some others I can't think of right now. But these elements are fairly minor and are not wholly created separately from George Lucas; Lucas certainly created the Twi'lek race, and the inclusion of a nameless (within the movie) Twi'lek character is entirely acceptable. And since Lucas had already created the concept of a planet-wide city for the Imperial Capital in early drafts of Return of the Jedi, only the name Coruscant is not his creation.

Darth Windu
10-05-2004, 07:41 PM
Well, as far as i know there are three EU things Lucas put into the films.

1. Aayla Secura - apparently he saw her on a comic or something and though she was great, hence her appearance in Ep2

2. Coruscant - while Lucas already had the concept of a planet-wide city before the prequels, the name came from Zahn

3. Outrider - in both the 97 VHS and 2004 DVD editions of ANH, you can see the Outrider from 'Shadows of the Empire' leaving the Mos Eisley Spaceport

DK_Viceroy
10-06-2004, 12:47 AM
Like I said earlier though in the case of EP 3 the EU will be vital in explaining several things about the clone wars. In this respect i feel sorry for GL because he has to do loads of chazracter development to link the PT to the OT when i can imagine loads of people would rather see a few battles from the clone wars instead and then have some character development happen there.

and what about the other things you said you did do you claim to know everything or most things about those?

Nairb Notneb
10-06-2004, 06:34 AM
GL is developing General Grievous's character in the Boba Fett Scholastic Book series after introducing him the Clone Wars cartoon. I think that's a lot of fun, or at least a big tease. Its an odd move for him, unexpected, but no matter. It is what I believe all a part of his marketing genius.

Here is a new super character that will undoubtedly woo the fans and leave them breathless and wanting more. What does he do, wet their appetites and begin the ringing of Pavlov's bell, which in the Star Wars realm is the EU for many people. Say what you will about Lucas' movie making, but I admire his business sense and handling of his little Star Wars empire he has created. He is his own Emperor.

Admiral Vostok
10-06-2004, 07:43 AM
Like I said earlier though in the case of EP 3 the EU will be vital in explaining several things about the clone wars.I wouldn't say "vital". EU will do as it's always done, fill in the less important gaps. There is no doubt that Episode III will be self contained; you won't need to read a single word of EU to figure out what's going on. Sure, it doesn't show the complete battles of the Clone Wars, but the fact is the characters are the important part, not the battles.
and what about the other things you said you did do you claim to know everything or most things about those? [/B]Read my post again, it's all explained there quite clearly what I am and am not an expert of.

Nairb Notneb
10-07-2004, 02:57 AM
All of the movies stand without the EU, and ROTS will be the same. In contrast, the EU is nothing without the movies. Don't get the proverbial cart before the horse here. EU is fun, don't get me wrong, and it gave us all something to do during that 20 some years of Star Wars silence before we all went back in time. We all should be thankful for the EU because the proceeds from it helped GL finance his little venture into the Prequels, so it has served its purpose regardless if any of us like it or not. It has also helped to generated many more fans and has helped to sustain the "fanship" of others with short attention spans and little imaginations. It has also added to the entertainment of those with a vivid imagination, long attention span and to those that lack a social life (I cringe at the Star Wars geek stereo types, and I am offended by them, it is a form of discrimination)

FroZticles
10-07-2004, 05:02 AM
The movies started this Empire but they certainly will not sustain it. After ROTS, EU will be all thats left accept it or not but it is the truth.

I don't think Greivous will play a huge role they have alot more to do then introduce a new character who has really nothing to do with Anakin's transformation to the darkside.

Admiral Vostok
10-07-2004, 08:42 AM
We all should be thankful for the EU because the proceeds from it helped GL finance his little venture into the PrequelsJust clearing something up here. EU did not help George Lucas fund the prequels. The three original Star Wars made George Lucas a multi-millionaire, with ticket sales and merchandising combined. This was before any serious EU was developed as part of the merchandising. Also, since he owns some of the most successful companies in Hollywood (THX, ILM, Skywalker Sound, etc) he is not going to be short of extra cash. Finally, a large part of the money for The Phantom Menace came from the Special Edition releases (and in turn The Phantom Menace helped fund Attack of the Clones, and Attack of the Clones helped fund Revenge of the Sith).

So while I understand that EU is fun, don't for one second think that Star Wars as a whole owes anything to it.
I don't think Greivous will play a huge role they have alot more to do then introduce a new character who has really nothing to do with Anakin's transformation to the darkside.Well I have a theory about Greivous that makes him more than just a new character, and indeed if I'm right he will have a lot to do with Anakin's transformation. I won't reveal my theory though in case I'm wrong :p

DK_Viceroy
10-07-2004, 09:26 AM
That's what theoris are for to be proved right or wrong don't be afraid of being wrong because that's usually nothing new around here.

Besides it'll help bring some more life to the forum so do it quick before it keels over again.

Nairb Notneb
10-08-2004, 02:51 AM
I agree with Viceroy Vostok, you should publish your theory. If your wrong so what who cares. I've been discussing a big theory about GG in the Star Wars forum for a long time now about GG. Somebody said that he might be Maul based on a little bit that he read on the official website and based on a picture that he saw that had Maul's upper half on a robot's lower half that looked like a battle droid. It was a cool pic, sort of. The other theory is that GG is Sifo-Dyas (Spelling). I hope I didn't bust your bubble but the early bird gets the Jedi. Here is the link to our discussion.

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1654189#post1654189

saberhagen
10-08-2004, 03:13 AM
I would have thought Sifo-Dyas was just another guise of Sidious/Palpatine.

Nairb Notneb
10-08-2004, 03:21 AM
It's possible and most likely, but


it is possible that General Grievous used to be Syfo-Dyas, or at least alot of people thing that.


Follow the link for a long discussion

DarthMuffin
10-08-2004, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok
Well I have a theory about Greivous that makes him more than just a new character, and indeed if I'm right he will have a lot to do with Anakin's transformation. I won't reveal my theory though in case I'm wrong :p

Oh come on... we don't have anything to discuss...

... please? :)

DK_Viceroy
10-08-2004, 11:39 PM
See I'm right for as usual Everyone agrees with me that you should spiel of this theory of yours since darth is right we don't really have anything to talk about.

:bdroid2: So do it quick Vostok before this Forum DIES AGAIN :bdroid2:

Admiral Vostok
10-11-2004, 02:20 PM
Sorry, I've been away for the weekend. I would have posted my theory up sooner otherwise since there is so much request.
Somebody said that he might be Maul based on a little bit that he read on the official website and based on a picture that he saw that had Maul's upper half on a robot's lower half that looked like a battle droid. It was a cool pic, sort of. The other theory is that GG is Sifo-Dyas (Spelling).Well I haven't read much about Greivous' identity, since I usually don't visit many other Star Wars forums than this one, but these two ideas are interesting. But if you like either of those theories you'll love my theory:
General Greivous IS Darth Maul IS Sifo-Dyas!

The part I'm most confident about is the Darth Maul/Sifo-Dyas connection, which few others have made. Many were disappointed that Maul only appeared briefly in The Phantom Menace, and indeed when you consider that in Star Wars nearly all the major characters are incredibly important to the fate of the Universe, Maul's quick death was strange. Even Boba Fett's role in the Universe was expanded hugely, so it seems strange that Maul is rather inconsequential in the scheme of things. If he is in fact Sifo-Dyas it expands his character hugely so he becomes a lot more significant.

When Jango Fett says he was recruited by a man named Tyranus (obviously Darth Tyranus/Count Dooku) it seems obvious the Clone Army was a plan of the Sith from the beginning. Many people believe because of this that Sifo-Dyas is in fact Darth Sidious. I disagree. Sifo-Dyas was a real Jedi whom other people knew. Presumably they also knew what he looked like. Obviously Sidious=Palpatine, so clearly he can't have the guise of both Palpatine and Sifo-Dyas (since the Jedi would see them as the same person). For similar reasons we know that Sifo-Dyas is not just another name for Dooku; both Count Dooku and Sifo-Dyas were once Jedi, and were obviously not the same person.

So that leaves only Darth Maul, the only other Sith Lord. Is it a coincidence that Sifo-Dyas and Darth Maul both died ten years before Geonosis? I think not. I also used to wonder why the EU said Maul's markings were tattoos rather than his natural skin colouring. The EU said it was to show his devotion to the dark side, but obviously that is rediculous or Sidious, Tyranus and Vader (all three far more advanced than Maul) would also wear tattoos. My theory gives way to a far better explanation: Maul uses the tattoos to disguise his true identity of Sifo-Dyas. Without the tattoos and the red eyes and the bad teeth Maul would look very different. So I think either Sifo-Dyas faked his death to permanently take on the identity of Darth Maul, or that the tattoos were not permanent and instead enabled Maul to pose as either Sifo-Dyas or Darth Maul, and that when Maul died Sifo-Dyas died too.

Now, the more I heard of General Greivous, the more my Maul/Sifo-Dyas theory made sense, in conjunction with Greivous. If all three characters were one in the same, it would further make Darth Maul a far better character, and indeed in terms of the story it would be probably the best way to reveal that Maul and Sifo-Dyas were the same. I read an article somewhere that Greivous would remove his faceplate to reveal his face in Episode III... why do this if not to reveal his true identity?

Well I hope you enjoyed my theory. Poke holes in it if you will, but I like it.

swphreak
10-11-2004, 05:44 PM
I don't see how Darth Maul is Sifo-Dyas. As EU said, Darth Maul had the Tattoos to show his devotion. It is obviously not his skin color since we see other Zabrack Jedi tattooless.

Maybe Grevious is Sifo-Dyas or Darth Maul. I don't think they're the same. I think I remember reading that Palpatine discovered Maul and trained him.

The EU said it was to show his devotion to the dark side, but obviously that is rediculous or Sidious, Tyranus and Vader (all three far more advanced than Maul) would also wear tattoos.

Well, Vader had his feared Armor, and Dooku doesn't seem to be the type to tattoo himself, neither does Palpatine. Perhaps the tattoo is a Zabrak tradition to show devotion? That's the main part of your theory I'm poking :

Admiral Vostok
10-11-2004, 07:46 PM
Is that all you've got, Phreak? :p
Well, Vader had his feared ArmorYou obviously forgot the part where his helmet was removed to reveal no tattoos.and Dooku doesn't seem to be the type to tattoo himself, neither does Palpatine.But the tattoos are to show devotion, not as a fashion statement. Dooku and Palpatine are both more advanced and thus presumably more devoted.Perhaps the tattoo is a Zabrak tradition to show devotion?Then why does Eeth Koth, a member of the Jedi Council, not have tattoos?[/QUOTE]To that end, can you EUFans please explain something to me:How can EU possibly claim that Darth Maul and Eeth Koth are of the same species? They might both have horns, but that is where the similarities end. Their horns are differently shaped, differently arranged, of different numbers and different types than each other. Yet another piece of Star Wars mangled by an incompetant EU writer who doesn't watch the movies.
So Phreak, you didn't really poke any holes in what I said. George Lucas can change EU: he has done it in the past. The theories of Greivous' identity must come purely from the movies, which are the less tangible and thus more reliable texts. Do not use EU to poke holes in my theory, because EU is already riddled with holes.

swphreak
10-11-2004, 09:12 PM
How can EU possibly claim that Darth Maul and Eeth Koth are of the same species? They might both have horns, but that is where the similarities end. Their horns are differently shaped, differently arranged, of different numbers and different types than each other. Yet another piece of Star Wars mangled by an incompetant EU writer who doesn't watch the movies.

Why are there people with Black skin? Asians? Whites?

Just because Maul tattooed himself to show devotion to his master, doesn;t mean the rest have to. It could very well be a personal preference. The tattoos have nothing to do with "rank."

Then why does Eeth Koth, a member of the Jedi Council, not have tattoos?

Well, maybe because Eeth Koth isn;t a Sith Lord?


I'll use whatever reasoning I want to use.

Nairb Notneb
10-12-2004, 02:47 AM
One problem with the Maul theory. Lucas says in the commentary of TPM that the reason he had Obi-Wan cut Maul in half is so that everybody would know that Maul could not possibly come back. GL said that Maul is not coming back.

However, there is a giant hole in my argument. That hole is George Lucas himself. George has just proven that not only can he change his own mind, but that he can change his own 20+ year old movies as well. If he so desires Maul to suffer from a "split" personality of sorts, then "So be it, Jedi".

Then Mr. Vostok, in order for your theory to be true Maul would have to have been . . .

trained as a Jedi on Corascant and known by the other Jedi. If this is true, then it means that Palpatine had a habit of recruiting (at least three) apprentices from the ranks of the Jedi and never got caught until it was to late. A question it brings up to me is, who was his master? If all of this is true then Maul's bio is completely wrong, which is fine because it is only EU and there is nothing static about that, it is insignificant and can be changed at any time.

Kryllith
10-12-2004, 07:06 AM
Few comments to the discussion...

1) The suggestion of Maul being the only available Sith Lord isn't necessarily true. I brought this up on another discussion so I won't go into it in detail, but the jist is that just because Yoda indicates that the Sith tradition is 1 master/1 apprentice, doesn't mean that Sidious is playing by the rules. It's possible both Maul and Dooku (and for that matter, any number of other people) were apprentices to Sidious at the same time.

2) While Maul may have been cloaking his identity, it's possible that Quigon and/or Obiwan would have detected a familiar presence when facing Maul had Maul been a Jedi Master. No detection was indicated in the movies. Pure speculation, of course, but then so is the whole theory.

Kryllith

DK_Viceroy
10-12-2004, 07:50 AM
I'd Like to think Of General Grevious as Seperate from Jedi and sith yes He has been trained to use a lightsabre But wait he might not have been if you watch it being done long enough you can usually manage to do some of it by yourself and make a few techniques of your own.

Maul WIll not be comming back If you hit yoyur head enough going at high speed's when going down a tube of unknown length then chances are you'll be dead by the time you get to the bottom of it since no Star Wars technology in Star Wars as a whole purports to raise the dead Nothing even touches on the subject and jedi or sith if your in agony you can't concentrate so you can't use the force it's a similar concept to how Obi wan was imprisoned on Geonosis so he can't have slowed himself down and if anyone wants to dispute being in agony then I invite them to get sliced in half and thrown down a huge tube and bang their head several times.

I Like to think Of Grevious as an unknown but i'll venture forward some theories. I think he was a General during the some intermitent conflict before the battle of naboo and that as he got increasingly injured he replaced several of his componnents with Mechanical components. This is also disproves the theory of him being maul because I've read quite a lot of the design breifs for Grevious and only 5% of his body is organic being Brain Nervous system and I think Face perhaps. Therefore he can't be maul because his legs were cut off and so a whole lot of trouble would have to be gone through to give him back his nerves and as you become more droid your ability to use the force is diminished and i'm not talking about replacing your arms and legs If you were a human head on a robot body then you wouldn't be able to manipulate the force very well since you couldn't exacrtly feel it and you certainly wouldn't have midichlorians in your blood because you wouldn't have much blood at all if not some sort of substitute.

It could also be that Grevious is some experiment of Sidious' and that he could have been created using his own DNA in an attempt to create the perfect General because what better way to ensure loyalty then to use a droid or a clone of yourself.

I'll accept that some of the design breifs I've read could quite easily be subject to change but I think this late now they'll stick with that figure since changing him radically will mean that they have to change the model's and all the book's that with George's blessing to adapt to the new details. I think some of them are already out if they are I'll pounce on them and check.

Admiral Vostok
10-12-2004, 08:30 AM
Viceroy:
Your post is too hard to comprehend. Consider using punction marks, in particular commas (,) and full stops/periods (.) to construct readable sentences.

Phreak:
Why are there people with Black skin? Asians? Whites?I'm not talking about the tattoos and skin colours, I'm talking about the horns. Such radically different bone structures could not be from the same species.Well, maybe because Eeth Koth isn;t a Sith Lord?I didn't say he was. If you read my post again, you'll see I was responding to your claim that tattoos may be a Zabrak way of showing devotion. If you're now changing your idea to tattoos being only a sign of devotion if you are both a Sith Lord and a Zabrak, I find that even more amusing.

Nairb:
Indeed it is true that George said Maul was well and truly dead, but as you said he has been known to change his mind. I should point out Lucas is also famous for misleading fans on purpose.

And yes, my theory assumes Maul was not only trained in the Jedi Temple, but was even a part of the Jedi Council.

Kryllith:
1) It's true that Sifo-Dyas may be someone we don't know about, but there is also another factor I'm counting on: decent storytelling. Sifo-Dyas must be someone we already know, or the revelation of his true identity will be so anti-climactic it will be a joke.
2) If Palpatine can hide his true identity from the most powerful Jedi in the Universe, I'm sure Maul can hide his from Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, especially when he's got them concentrating more on their lightsaber skills. Remember, "hard to see, the Dark Side is".

Everyone:
Of course, the most important thing you have to do when considering my theory is to forget everything EU has told you. If everything in EU is to be taken as gospel, then yes, my theory doesn't work. But as we all now George Lucas is not bound by EU; quite a few things that cropped up in the EU after The Phantom Menace were summarily dismissed in Attack Of The Clones. If we just look at the evidence that is presented to us in the movies, my theory is quite possible.

Nairb Notneb
10-12-2004, 08:55 AM
Vostok, I agree. Taking the EU as gospel is a very bad idea because it is not. Only the movies are gospel and even they can be changed by the will of the Force himself, George Lucas. In discussing this theory of Mr. Maul being GG, I had automatically and immediately taking it that Maul was not GG because GL said Maul would not be returning. However, this was said after TPM. Several things have changed since then. AOTC has come out and ROTS is about to come out. GL also said that there are only three light saber colors and that their colors will be explained in Episode Two. Both of these items changed. Now we have a purple light saber (really only because Samuel Jackson negotiated for it in his acting contract) and the movies have yet to explain the colors.

My point, is that GL has a history of changing his mind and his "official" statements of what is to come and not to come even on seemingly trivial items. Do not discount Mauls return yet until ROTS is over.

If Maul is GG this aids the story of Anakin quite well I believe. It shows us early on in this episode that a person can be injured at a next to death experience (especially by the hands of Obi Wan) and be put back together by Palpatine. It is foreshadowing Anakin's transformation into Vader later on in the episode and it arch's many items from previous episodes, something Lucas has done often in all five movies so far.

Here is a link you should follow. It is an interesting read. And a cool pick.


http://www.starwars.com/eu/news/2004/08/news20040803.html

DK_Viceroy
10-12-2004, 09:51 AM
EU Is of course to be taken as Gosphel and I Won't Accept ANY Arguments WHATSOEVER to the contrary.


Despite the fact that it's a hallmark of being in a rush trying not to get caught by a facist ICT teacher while posting on the fourm something is naturally going to go out of the window so for the benefit of those who don't try i'll translate it.

I'd Like to think Of General Grevious as Seperate from Jedi and sith, yes He has been trained to use a lightsabre But wait he might not have been if you watch it being done long enough you can usually manage to do some of it by yourself and make a few techniques of your own.

Maul WIll not be comming back If you hit your head enough going at high speed's when going down a tube of unknown length then chances are you'll be dead by the time you get to the bottom of it.

Since no Star Wars technology in Star Wars as a whole purports to raise the dead Nothing even touches on the subject and jedi or sith if your in agony you can't concentrate so you can't use the force. It's a similar concept to how Obi wan was imprisoned on Geonosis so Maul couldn't have slowed himself down.





If anyone wants to dispute being in agony then I invite them to get sliced in half and thrown down a huge tube and bang their head several times.




I Like to think Of Grevious as an unknown but i'll venture forward some theories.

I think he was a General during the some intermitent conflict before the battle of naboo and that as he got increasingly injured he replaced several of his componnents with Mechanical components. This is also disproves the theory of him being maul because I've read quite a lot of the design breifs for Grevious and only 5% of his body is organic being Brain Nervous system and I think Face perhaps. The figure has went up to as much as 10% and as low as 2% but since i've seen 5% quoted the most I think it's safe to say at this late stage that's gonna be the final figure.

Therefore he can't be maul because his legs were cut off and so a whole lot of trouble would have to be gone through to give him back his nerves and as you become more droid your ability to use the force is diminished and i'm not talking about replacing your arms and legs If you were a human head on a robot body then you wouldn't be able to manipulate the force very well since you couldn't exacrtly feel it and you certainly wouldn't have midichlorians in your blood because you wouldn't have much blood at all if not some sort of substitute.

It could also be that Grevious is some experiment of Sidious' and that he could have been created using his own DNA in an attempt to create the perfect General because what better way to ensure loyalty then to use a droid or a clone of yourself.

I'll accept that some of the design breifs I've read could quite easily be subject to change but I think this late now they'll stick with that figure since changing him radically will mean that they have to change the model's and all the book's that with George's blessing to adapt to the new details. I think some of them are already out if they are I'll pounce on them and check.

Though one idea i just had now that Grevious could actually be a clone of Qui-Gon manipulated through the force indeed that certainly would be a revaltation and certainly climatic I doubt anyone could debate that.

They could however doubt the likelyhood but on the other hand how many people expected the Death Star would be involved with the Geo's which Personally I think is the Biggest Continuity Error ever and was propably only put in as some burning desire to wave the death star around on a stick.

DarthMuffin
10-12-2004, 10:55 AM
Woah, my head hurts now :eek: Too many different theories!

I must admit that I was quite surprised when I saw Maul's death in Ep 1. And like it was said, it's quite strange that a "major" character only appears in a single movie. I put major in quotation marks because he only has 2 lines or so in the movie, and he doesn't really have a personality either.

Then of course you could say that Qui-Gon, who's a major character (more important than Maul), is also only in one movie (except for the possible communication between him and Obi in ROTS, and the very small quote in AoTC).

As for Viceroy's theory about Qui-Gon, I say :eyeraise:

And why having the DS shown in AotC is a continuity error? The Separatists obviously developed it under Dooku's (and therefore Palp's) orders. I don't see any problem with that : we don't have any official info about the origins of the DS in the classics.

Admiral Vostok
10-12-2004, 11:01 AM
Viceroy, that was slightly easier to read so I put the effort in.

EU Is of course to be taken as Gosphel and I Won't Accept ANY Arguments WHATSOEVER to the contrary.If George Lucas feels he can ignore it then it is not gospel. I can't understand how you could possibly not accept that argument.

Maul WIll not be comming back If you hit your head enough going at high speed's when going down a tube of unknown length then chances are you'll be dead by the time you get to the bottom of it [...] Since no Star Wars technology in Star Wars as a whole purports to raise the dead Nothing even touches on the subject [...]I think it is within the realm of possibility within the Star Wars Universe that Maul could be resurrected. Yes, there is no evidence of technology that raises the dead, and as such it is obviously not common. I think it is possible that this is a perverse technology that is really just an experimental technique that was used by the Separatist forces to resurrect Maul. It relates back to the story of Frankenstein, or at least to the interpretations of Frankenstein presented in the British Hammer Horror films, which George Lucas is a fan of. If Maul's dead brain could be recovered perhaps it could be wired in to a droid body and reanimated? It would seem that Darth Vader's life support suit is the only one in existence in the Star Wars Universe, so it's entirely possible that another technological marvel - the melding of creature and machine in another more perverse way - is also a one-off, unique occurence in Star Wars.

All I'm saying is it is not outside the realm of what could possibly happen in Star Wars, and indeed since it ties in with some of Lucas' known inspirations it is entirely possible.Therefore he can't be maul because his legs were cut off and so a whole lot of trouble would have to be gone through to give him back his nerves and as you become more droid your ability to use the force is diminished and i'm not talking about replacing your arms and legs If you were a human head on a robot body then you wouldn't be able to manipulate the force very well since you couldn't exacrtly feel it and you certainly wouldn't have midichlorians in your blood because you wouldn't have much blood at all if not some sort of substitute.Apparently you are unfamiliar with the fact that Vader is "more machine than man" and can still weild the Force with incredible power. Force weilding comes from the mind; as long as that is in tact the ability to use the Force is too.Though one idea i just had now that Grevious could actually be a clone of Qui-Gon manipulated through the force indeed that certainly would be a revaltation and certainly climatic I doubt anyone could debate that.Indeed that is an interesting concept; though if you are going down the clone path then through the same logic Greivous could be a clone of Maul. However I personally don't believe any of the major characters will have clones of themselves (except Jango for obvious reasons) because in Star Wars technology is just the background for the story, and not an integral part of the story in itself. For example although armies of Clones and Droids are fighting each other it is not important for the story that they are clones or droids, just that they are an army. However this is just my opinion; I suppose it is possible for Qui-Gon to be cloned but I don't think clones of anyone other than Jango Fett will feature.They could however doubt the likelyhood but on the other hand how many people expected the Death Star would be involved with the Geo's which Personally I think is the Biggest Continuity Error ever and was propably only put in as some burning desire to wave the death star around on a stick.Well as we demonstrated in before the Death Star being designed by Geonosians is not a continuity error. You're making several assumptions that aren't supported by the movies, but were you to make different assumptions then there is no continuity error.

[EDIT:] Nairb replied whilst I was writing this epic post, so just a quick response to him:
For me it is precisely Maul's apparent lack of character that fuels my theory. What better way to make him a proper, fully significant character? As for Qui-Gon, it is true that he is only in one movie, but his character has still been extended beyond that movie. The most shocking revelation of Qui-Gon's character was that he was in fact Count Dooku's padawan! :eek: But at any rate, Qui-Gon's character was greatly developed throughout The Phantom Menace and continues to develop after his death; since Maul had nearly no character development in The Phantom Menace, such a huge development as this after his death would be fantastic.

DK_Viceroy
10-12-2004, 12:17 PM
What We REALLY need is a complete shot of the good or should i say bad General so we can have a gander at his leg's to see if that's a possibility

Apparently You are missing the Backbone of what I was saying in refernce to the body It is widely Disputed about how much of Vader is Machine I however suscribe to the theory that He has the arm we know about from AoTC part of his other arm half on one leg and all of one leg as Articifcial I could however be wrong but He would still have plenty of organic parts of his body to have blood and therefore Midi chlorians to flow through which if you need movie proof for.................

I'll bring Qui-Gon out of the Cupboard of Possible Greviouses and use some of his words about the Midi Chlorians being directly linked to the manipulation of the force and since the Midi Chlorians are in the blood something that is nearly all machine will propably not have blood but more likely some substitue since What is the point on blood if you don't have a heart to pump it round?

Though Personally and I Think some people agree with me that EP 1 would have been better off without this Midi Chlorine babble but for the moment it suits my purposes.

Though Vostok would You think a Droid had a mind and if it did would it be able to manipulate the force?

Admiral Vostok
10-12-2004, 02:18 PM
Well I agree with you but I'm not sure where you are going with your argument. Who said General Grievous could manipulate the Force? There isn't any evidence he has Force-senstivity. Sure he can supposedly lightsaber duel pretty well according to the Clone Wars cartoons, but that isn't necessarily purely a Force-related ability. In fact since one of Maul's greatest abilities was his duelling, perhaps this is the reason he was reanimated as Greivous: duelling is probably a skill he would retain after reanimation, although Force ability may not be carried over.

I should also point out that Midiclorians are not linked to manipulation of the Force. They are linked to sensitivity of the Force. Midiclorians are "constantly telling us the will of the Force". It would seem possible to me that you can still manipulate the Force just as effectively with a low Midiclorian count, but "communication" with the Force (for example, seeing into the future or communicating telepathically) would be harder to do. Keep in mind every living thing has Midiclorians, whether they can manipulate the Force or not.

swphreak
10-12-2004, 03:24 PM
Vostok, think of my preference of the EU like religion. It is really hard to change someone's religous belief, and just because you don't believe in my religion, that doesn't mean it is false.


Now, if Grevious was perhaps created with DNA from Darth Maul, I might go with your theory a bit more...


As for the Maul/Dyas... it would be quite a pain to have to re-apply and remove the tattooes each time he changes role. Don't forget he has to change his dentures too! Maul may be able to hide his dark prescense, but do you think he is capable of using the Light Side of the force? And how can you not expect some Jedi master(s) not to notice the presense of Maul/Dyas's Darkness....

I think I confused myself with that last paragraph

Admiral Vostok
10-12-2004, 04:47 PM
Vostok, think of my preference of the EU like religion. It is really hard to change someone's religous belief, and just because you don't believe in my religion, that doesn't mean it is false.Well I guess so, but if you're going to believe the EU is not false then logic dictates that you must consider the movies to be false instead. They contradict each other, so they can't both be right.As for the Maul/Dyas... it would be quite a pain to have to re-apply and remove the tattooes each time he changes role. Don't forget he has to change his dentures too!That's true, but don't forget it is also possible and perhaps more likely that Sifo-Dyas faked his own death so as to fully embrace his new identity as Darth Maul, unlike Dooku who chose to be a little more conspicuous. Perhaps he wasn't playing both sides as it were, but when the time was right he made the transition. In fact now I think about it this is the most likely explanation, as Darth Maul's death would have brought about a sudden "disappearance" of Sifo-Dyas, rather than an actual death.And how can you not expect some Jedi master(s) not to notice the presense of Maul/Dyas's Darkness....Again I remind you of the inability for Jedi Master(s) to notice the presence of Sidious/Palpatine's Darkness.

swphreak
10-12-2004, 09:08 PM
The difference is that Palpatine isn't actively using the force (like force push, ect), that we can see in the movies anyways.

DK_Viceroy
10-12-2004, 11:45 PM
I think Sifo Dyas shall be revealed as someone else perhaps Palpatine because remember the Jedi and sith could control minds to a certain extent they could use the force to present a different face to some people.

I think Sifo Dyas should be kept away from Grevious since we're not sure what species Sifo Dyas was.

Has anyone else though how on earth Maul would be able to carry over his combat skills into a droid body that can have 4 arms from what i've heard he can use all of his arm increadibly well I personally think he was originally from a species with 4 arms that could help explain his proficeinecy.

However I still think that it's quite possible it could be Qui-Gon since Dooku was Qui-Gon's master and Dooku did have a great deal of sadness when he talked about him so it could be he had him cloned and qouldn't it be more Dramatic and unexpected if Obi saw the face mask come off to see qui gon's face it would be of the order when Luke saw obi killed in terms of reaction possibly far greater.

Midi Chlorians are more than likely involved in manipulation of th force if it wasn't then how come droid's arn't manipulating it?

Yes you can have a low Midi Chlorian count but it'll all depend if you can hear the Midi-Chlorians.

I think were gonna find out a lot about the nature of the force during EP III now that i've resigned myself to the sad reality that most of the clone wars will not be on the big screen which personally I would have liked and i could imagine other people would have liked as well.

Also I have a file were i took a screenshot of an image of maul and an image of grevious the greviuos one is near the end of how they created him.

Ask and i shall e-mail it.

The eyes look different Grevious's are more Feline and yellow with the pupil long and thin. and the rest of his eyes are all yellowy green no white bit at all

The Skin around the eyes is brown greenish and very wrinkled and there is a lot of skin in that region.

Their head are also different in size with Grevious's being thinner than maul's how would they be able to fit his brain in how would they be able to adaquetly protect it. Since we can safely saay that Grevious usually Leads from the front and he'd be a pretty popular target amongst clone troopers and since he's neither jedi or sith and doesn't use the force he can't anticipate attacks the same way force users can however he may be able to dodge some but one shot would get him.


Everyone knows how well anyone works with a hole burned through their bran don't we?

Vostok it is very Narrow minded to assume that EU is Directly opposed to the Movies I'd change your stance since tragic things happen involving narrow minded people let's pluck anothwer example out of the cupboard for you let's say Hitler and His Holocaust. If that doesn't strike you as tragic i'd be worried about you.

saberhagen
10-13-2004, 05:37 AM
MY

BRAIN

HURTS


And how the **** does not liking EU lead to fascist dictatorship and genocide???

Kryllith
10-13-2004, 06:22 AM
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok
Kryllith:
1) It's true that Sifo-Dyas may be someone we don't know about, but there is also another factor I'm counting on: decent storytelling. Sifo-Dyas must be someone we already know, or the revelation of his true identity will be so anti-climactic it will be a joke.
2) If Palpatine can hide his true identity from the most powerful Jedi in the Universe, I'm sure Maul can hide his from Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, especially when he's got them concentrating more on their lightsaber skills. Remember, "hard to see, the Dark Side is".

1) Is the revelation even assured? Sifo Dyas could just be some random Jedi (albeit a Master) that happened to have died recently. Sidious would be in a position to know so he had whomever set up the order use Sifo Dyas's name. If the jedi is dead, he won't be around to question about the ordering and thus we have a big, possibly unsolveable, mystery which just further helps Sidious's cause. So basically the same goes for Maul. He might be able to shield his identify, but I wouldn't necessarily bet on it, especially since he has to concentrate on his own fighting as well. ;)

2) Maybe, but then Palpatine wasn't running into a direct combative conflict with any of the Jedi (not that we've seen anyway). We've seen various recognitions of presenses in the various movies (Darth and Obiwan sensing each other and Luke and Vader sensing each other, for example). What we don't see is Palpatine hanging around the battle field or engaging in combat. I'm willing to believe if he were to, then the Jedi fighting him would probably recognize him as Palpatine, regardless of disguise (unless he could shield himself enough using the Force). As it is, the Jedi have no real reason to suspect him.


Everyone:
Of course, the most important thing you have to do when considering my theory is to forget everything EU has told you[/B]
No worries there. I've yet to read any novelization ,and I take pretty much everything that's not specifically in the movies with a grain of salt. I'm not one to use the EU to support an argument. ;)

Kryllith

DK_Viceroy
10-13-2004, 06:59 AM
Grevious Can't be maul I Even got a picture of both and compared them Their Eyes are Completly Different and In most of the Images The Flesh In between the metal in some of his Body is GREEN not RED and BLACK the skin around his eyes is BROWN and his eyes are all YELLOW with a BLACK Stripe down the middle he has no WHITE part of his eyes while maul does.

Perhaps you should comapre the voices of this oldieman guy who people have been saying will be doing the voice and compare it to maul's to see if it sounds similar.

Also someone try to find that picture of GREVIOUS and compare it to MAUL let us Disprove this theory or prove it conclusiveley.

lukeiamyourdad
10-13-2004, 07:17 AM
Compare Anakin's voice to Vader's voice...compare how Hayden Christensen looks like and Sebastian Shaw...
You argument there has little merit since we know so little about the biotechnology that transformed Anakin and Grievious into half-robots.

Though I'll agree with you that it is less then likely that Maul is Grievious. It would be weird and Maul is supposed to be dead .This isn't Star Wars: Dawn of the dead. Anakin survived but Maul got cut in half and fell down a seemingly bottomless pit(it looked pretty deep so it's really likely that Maul's corpse was squashed when it touched the bottom).

Grievious being Qui-Gon? I expect seeing Qui-Gon's blue ghost talking to Anakin but a clone? :eyeraise:

The theory that seems the most logical to me would be that Sifo Dyas is Grievious.


EDIT: Oh and your crazy just as narrow minded(if you could even call it narrow minded) view over EU and Star Wars could also lead to fascism and genocide...though it's stupid to compare Star Wars purism with Hitler...

Nairb Notneb
10-13-2004, 09:18 AM
Holy cow you guys are full of cheese or something! EU and Star Wars could also lead to fascism and genocide? Are you nuts? Either Grievous is going to be SD, Maul or just plain Grievous. There is no way he will be a clone or Qui-Gon because that will muck up the story of Anakin way too much.

Did anybody read my post with the picture of the half Maul half droid thing? This concept picture was mandated by George Lucas himself the article says. Why would he want this sketch made? To put it in the movie. The article says that this particular sketch did not make it into the movie, but the general idea of a half light saber wielding half droid bad guy did, and from this sketch we know that somewhere Lucas told them to draw up part of Maul in there. Here it is again for those of you that just post and don't read.

http://www.starwars.com/eu/news/2004/08/news20040803.html


And, here is a direct post to the picture, it's cool.

http://www.starwars.com/eu/news/2004/08/news20040803_1.html


One more thing. Viceroy, if you say that EU is gospel one more time I'll scream because it's not. One point showing the inaccuracy of your statement is your precious Death Star reveal by the Geo's in AoTC. According to EU some scientist created it and there was a prototype of it in a nebula or something like that. Well, it looks like Lucas changed his and our minds about that thus changing EU. It can't be gospel if it changes.

Admiral Vostok
10-13-2004, 11:06 AM
Nairb: Wow, excellent link there. A little more fuel to my Maul=Greivous theory.

Viceroy: I think Sifo Dyas shall be revealed as someone else perhaps PalpatineAgain I say it is highly unlikely that Sifo-Dyas is Palpatine. It doesn't matter how good your mind control is, you can't be two highly visible public figures (member of the Jedi Council and Senator for Naboo) at the same time. Also as we know Mind Tricks only work on the weak minded, so you wouldn't be able to fool people like Yoda and Mace Windu.

As for your revelation of Greivous' eyes: until we have a shot of Greivous in the movie and not just a concept picture, we don't really have any accurate comparisons, so my theory can't be discounted just be looking at the concept art. You'll need an actual still from the movie.

Also, I find it amusing that you refer to me as narrow minded. If EU is gospel, answer these questions:
1) Who designed the Death Star?
2) What planet was Boba Fett born on?
3) How old is C-3PO?
The answers are different depending on whether you go by published EU, or by the prequels. Therefore, they contradict. Therefore, EU is not gospel.

Oh, and last I heard John Rhys Davies (Gimli from LOTR, Sallah from Indiana Jones) was possibly going to voice Greivous. Yes his voice is different to Maul's, but so is James Earl Jones' voice different to Hayden Christensen.

Kryllith: Is the revelation even assured?Again, no the revelation is not assured, I'm just assuming in the tradition of good storytelling that there will be a revelation. Why would Yoda and Mace Windu act all shifty upon hearing Sifo-Dyas' name if there was to be no revelation in Revenge of the Sith?

Indeed the argument against Maul being unable to conceal his identity like Palpatine can is just an assumption of yours, there is no evidence for it and it doesn't necessarily hold true.

General Nitro
10-13-2004, 04:27 PM
Greivous = Maul is a good theory. I just don't see how. They look so different. Unless of course it's just Maul's brain in the that thing, but that woul be weird. Maul = Syfo-Dyas looks good though.

Admiral Vostok
10-13-2004, 06:38 PM
Certainly going just from the concept art we've seen as Viceroy is there isn't much evidence to support the idea that Greivous = Maul.

However I find both the Maul=Sifo-Dyas and the Sifo-Dyas=Greivous theories to have merit, so you can see the obvious leap in logic.

DK_Viceroy
10-13-2004, 11:47 PM
Whoever said Sifo Dyas was ever on the council yes he was a jedi master but no one ever said he was on the council

and for that so called theory fuel I wouldn't count on it yet If you bothered to read the article which I highly doubt you will dikscover that that art was done for a COMIC and that picture to me wasn't in the least suprising considering the rumours about episode 2 was that he came back with mechanical legs.

ANswer me this though Just why would he use Maul he'd been a proven Failure beaten by a PADAWAN however Dooku was beaten off By a master not defeated but beaten off and that was After defeating Who was supposed to be hearalded as one of the most powerful Upcomming jedi and Master Kenobi.

From That perspective Maul is useless and Besides you can't be a Brilliant Tacticain like Grevious if you were a sith you'd be full of anger and anger clouds any tactics.

If it's Maul's brain then why is the skin and eyes there?
wouldn't he just be a brain in a full robot body?
If He Is Maul then why are his eyes different?
Why are his eyes all yellow with one long black stripe?
why are his eyes a different shape?
Why is the skin around his eyes brown?
Why is the flesh around his chest area green?
why is Grevious's head far thinner than mauls?

Vostok you should watch the making of Grevious v ideo and take a screenshot of the last couple of seconds on the zoomes up face and then compare it to maul and you will see that they can't be the same person.

Maul's story was finished in Episode 1 He was there because he was there and he died there end of story No Star Wars technology brings life back to the dead that Is a cardinal rule in all of Star wars whether it be Gosphel EU or Sacred Film neither purports that or why else would Obi-Wan be so upset when he knew Qui-Gon could be revived or why would luke be sad when he knew his father could be brought back?

Admiral Vostok
10-14-2004, 07:26 AM
You've made so many mistakes with your assumptions, so let me help you out:
Whoever said Sifo Dyas was ever on the council yes he was a jedi master but no one ever said he was on the councilDispute my knowledge of Star Wars and ye shall be smited.
Lama Su: "Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas is still a leading member of the Jedi Council, is he not?"and for that so called theory fuel I wouldn't count on it yet If you bothered to read the article which I highly doubt you will dikscover that that art was done for a COMIC and that picture to me wasn't in the least suprising considering the rumours about episode 2 was that he came back with mechanical legs.I don't know why you highly doubt my reading of the article, you probably just said that as a cheap shot as you always do. But since you've obviously read the article you mustn't have missed the part that says the comics "will showcase new designs from the artists most responsible for the dazzling imagery in Revenge of the Sith."If it's Maul's brain then why is the skin and eyes there?
wouldn't he just be a brain in a full robot body?Not necessarily. It could quite easily be his whole head.If He Is Maul then why are his eyes different?
Why are his eyes all yellow with one long black stripe?
why are his eyes a different shape?
Why is the skin around his eyes brown?
Why is the flesh around his chest area green?
why is Grevious's head far thinner than mauls?Again as I already said you're going from concept work. I'm not saying Greivous definitely is Maul, I'm just saying don't discout it from what we've seen in the concept work.No Star Wars technology brings life back to the dead that Is a cardinal rule in all of Star wars whether it be Gosphel EU or Sacred Film neither purports that or why else would Obi-Wan be so upset when he knew Qui-Gon could be revived or why would luke be sad when he knew his father could be brought back?It is not a cardinal rule at all. It could be some sort of perverse technology that no-one knows about, and even if they did know about it they would never use it because of how horrible it is. Obviously you've never read Frankenstein. Indeed Maul/Greivous could be the only person this has ever been performed on. He could in fact just be a prototype for the technology that will keep Darth Vader alive.

DK_Viceroy
10-14-2004, 07:47 AM
Oh What I'm looking at isn't Concept Art Like I said It's from the end of the Making Of General Grevious Video and I wouldn't say the image at the end is a Concept no I'd say that's the Finished Article

I'll edit this with a link of two pictures ttogether.

http://dk_viceroy.tripod.com/The_Comparison.doc

Admiral Vostok
10-14-2004, 07:48 AM
Well I've seen the making of Greivous video and I don't remember seeing any bits that looked like they were from the movie, so I eagerly await your captured images.

EDIT: the link you provided does not work.

DK_Viceroy
10-14-2004, 07:49 AM
Check Above and for your convinience I've put a Maul Beside it too

That Grevious Certainly Doesn't Look like Concept It looks Like Something that they've already Started Filming With Since I remeber them saying that he's gone be all CGI

EDIT:Try Right Clicking and got to Save Target since it's a downloadable anyway.

Admiral Vostok
10-14-2004, 07:55 AM
Still doesn't work. Tripod doesn't allow file hosting obviously.

DK_Viceroy
10-14-2004, 08:06 AM
That Seems Eminenetly So Of Course

http://www.2and2.net/Uploads/Documents/The%20Comparison.doc

I however Rarely Give up

Nairb Notneb
10-14-2004, 10:08 AM
The eyes and voice are easily explained. The eyes are robotic implants and Grievous speaks through a voice synthesizer similar to Vader, thus the differences. No mystery.

Admiral Vostok
10-14-2004, 10:25 AM
As I said way back above, it's probable that when Sifo-Dyas took on the persona of Darth Maul he changed his eyes - perhaps with contact lenses - so he looked different to Sifo-Dyas. Perhaps Greivous' eyes are what Sifo-Dyas' eyes really look like?

But again, I stress that the picture of Greivous is just concept art, not an in-movie still. Unless you think there is a scene in Revenge of the Sith where Greivous' head floats in mid air on a pure white background?

When it comes down to it, I find it highly unlikely that if my theory were true they would give Greivous the same eyes as Maul anyway. That would be a bit too obvious, so that when the revelation comes no-one would be surprised.

Keep in mind that when Darth Vader was revealed as Luke's father, the fact was kept very secret from nearly everyone. Only Mark Hamill and James Earl Jones knew before the movie was released. Not even David Prowse knew, he was given fake lines. So it is entirely possible that Greivous' true identity is being kept secret by Lucas intentionally planting misleading concept art...

And here is yet another thought... what if Darth Maul/Sifo-Dyas was a changeling? :eek:

DK_Viceroy
10-14-2004, 11:32 AM
Now that theory has Credence It certainly fits in though wouldn't he have reverted back to his original from when he was abreviated since Zam did when she was dieing so We can assume it takes concentration to maintain a form.

I don't like to Say anything that could go against this theory because i like it but wouldn't Maul then have done some shape changing tricks and tried to turn Qui and Obi against each other that certainly sounds like something a sith would do.

Like I said Grevious is supposed to be a CGI character so their obviously not going to have a picture of him laughing it up with lucas right?

What Contact Lenses would cover the Entire Eye including the white area? I myself wear Contact Lenses they only cover the pupil and remeber if those were sifo-dyas's eyes wouldn't he need something different to a contact lens since you would still be able to see the yellow area's where the white is supposed to be and the black stripe would pretty much dominate.

They can't be implant's either We've seen from that TF pilot that eye implant's are very bulky and even EU has nothing to say on the subject of eye implant's since the only person that could have had an eye implant Didn't because His other pilots would have needed it more and he is Baron Soontir Fell better known later on as Syndic Fell

Admiral Vostok
10-14-2004, 05:05 PM
Now that theory has Credence It certainly fits in though wouldn't he have reverted back to his original from when he was abreviated since Zam did when she was dieing so We can assume it takes concentration to maintain a form.Perhaps Maul's appearance was his original form? It's possible that Clawdites aren't the only changelings in the galaxy. It's also possible that Maul was better at holding his form than Zam was, or that after he's been in the form for that long it becomes more permanent. Also if Maul is a species other than Clawdite, perhaps his species finds it far easier to shape-shift, and they don't revert to their natural form when killed.
I don't like to Say anything that could go against this theory because i like it but wouldn't Maul then have done some shape changing tricks and tried to turn Qui and Obi against each other that certainly sounds like something a sith would do.Glad you like the theory, and in fact I quite like it too. Having thought more about it today I think it's quite possible that a changeling could be involved in all this. As for confusing Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, shape-shifting is probably quite hard to do which is why Zam didn't change whilst she was supposed to be hiding from the Jedi. But also he might not have wanted to reveal the fact he is a changeling. Finally, Maul is more of a full-on berzerk fighter, sneaking around in a disguise is not his forte.What Contact Lenses would cover the Entire Eye including the white area? I myself wear Contact Lenses they only cover the pupil and remeber if those were sifo-dyas's eyes wouldn't he need something different to a contact lens since you would still be able to see the yellow area's where the white is supposed to be and the black stripe would pretty much dominate.Contact lenses that cover the entire eye are common today, theyre used in many movies. I just watched the behind the scenes stuff on my Pirates of the Caribbean DVD, and most if not all of the pirates had contact lenses, some that covered the entire eye so the whites of their eyes appeared yellow. The dude with the wooden eye had a particularly large contact lense that made his eye stick out.

Nairb Notneb
10-15-2004, 04:00 AM
I don't like the changeling idea because the idea of changelings to me is to far fetched, though it works for the story by explaining it all very nicely in this case. I do, however think that it would be a lot of fun to be one.

I think that when this movie comes out, we will probably find out (to our disappointment) that these three names will be for three different individuals. Maul was only Maul. Sifo was only Sifo and no actor ever played him and he will for ever remain faceless. And Grievous will only be the General, another short lived character. IF this were true, that would be awful, wouldn't it?

Let's look at this from George's Star Wars story telling history. How many short lived characters does he really have? There are very few that have come into the movie, made an impact on the story line in some way and only been here for one movie. This has been said before but I want to repeat it because I believe it is a strong argument for General Grievous being either one of Sifo Dias or Darth Maul. I think that it is more likely that Darth Maul was SD and he is GG.

I believe that George Lucas is doing this for a few reasons. One, to bring back a beloved character of Maul, explaining who Sifo is and how the clone army was ordered and to foreshadow in the ROTS that when Anakin "dies" in the lava pit that he can be "rebuilt" with a mechanical body.

I understand that that last part is hard to understand because we all know that it can happen, but look at it from the storytelling perspective as if this will be the first time you ever see episode 3 and that you have never before seen the last 3 movies. You are not expecting Anakin to die nor fall into a pit and turn into a mechanical man with a dark helmet, red and blue lights on his chest and that sounds like a prank heavy breather on the phone.

DK_Viceroy
10-15-2004, 08:51 AM
I Like to think of Maul and Sifo Dyas as packaged together and left there however Grevious will be short lived in the Movies but George Lucas has ordered and given his blessing for him to be fleshed out in the EU which means that there will be a piece of EU that will be immune and will be even more Cannon by the strcitest Deinfition of the word than the Movies and all of their Special Editions the Grevious EU will be Immutable and closer to perfection opposed to the Movie's in the sense they won't be changed after being published also the fact it's been given a blessing.

I'm in a Platonic mood today but I'll leave everyone else to attempt to Unravel the Mysteries I put before you Since I am a student Of Philosophy and Ethics the NJO series holds far more interest for me that it does for others particularly in the area of Jedi Philosophy as we study Jedi-ism as a religon in Philosophy and ethics.

And Yes Jedi-ism is a real religon

Admiral Vostok
10-15-2004, 11:22 AM
Viceroy, there is so much you don't understand about canon, least of which is how to spell it.
but George Lucas has ordered and given his blessing for him to be fleshed out in the EU which means that there will be a piece of EU that will be immune and will be even more Cannon by the strcitest Deinfition of the word than the MoviesWrong. Like all other EU it has been allowed to come into existence by George Lucas. All the EU on Greivous is still only that: EU. It is in no way more canonical than the movies, so by the strictest definition of the word you are way off.

George Lucas "gave his blessing" to Greivous EU in exactly the same way he "gave his blessing" to all the other EU in existence today. He's allowed it to come into being, but that doesn't make it in tune with his vision of the Star Wars Universe.

DK_Viceroy
10-15-2004, 12:21 PM
There is a differnce between giving his blessing and allowing it to exist.

You still are fascinated by the shadows on the cave wall arn't you vostok you will never turn round and look at the true world and see the fire and The One.

As such everything you say is subject to scrutiny since what you are saying is not what you mean what you are trying to say and since you are not talking of an idea or form, but a particular what you are saying has no true meaning so As such it will be dismissed. I shall leave you to your shadows Vostok.

lukeiamyourdad
10-15-2004, 12:26 PM
For the love of punctuation...

DK_Viceroy
10-15-2004, 12:34 PM
I see your resorting to old Insults Luke That Only needed one comma and a full stop.

Admiral Vostok
10-15-2004, 01:09 PM
That is not an insult. If you are insulted by someone requesting some decent punctuation in your posts you need to grow a thicker skin.

As for the difference between "giving a blessing" and "allowing it to exist", there really is no difference in terms of what we're talking about. "Giving a blessing" is just a nicer way to say "allowing it to exist". There are several places where EU in general - not just that relating to General Greivous - has been described as having George Lucas' blessing. That doesn't mean he holds it in any higher regard than the rest of EU out there.

DK_Viceroy
10-16-2004, 08:21 AM
He's wishing the EU about grevious good luck because For the people who want to understand the back story about grevious they'll have to make him richer by buying the books.

And something's gonna have to flesh out grevious the film Isn't called Star Wars Episode 3 Grevious Beginnings it is?

Admiral Vostok
10-16-2004, 08:33 AM
He's wishing the EU about grevious good luck because For the people who want to understand the back story about grevious they'll have to make him richer by buying the books.Please explain how this is any different to the rest of EU.
And something's gonna have to flesh out grevious the film Isn't called Star Wars Episode 3 Grevious Beginnings it is?No, because the movie isn't about Greivous. He's a minor character, and as such if he isn't fleshed out in the movies then his background isn't significant enough.

DK_Viceroy
10-16-2004, 08:40 AM
If Episode 4 was actualkly episode 7 and GL had another 3 episode's to play around with insteads of having to focus on bridging gaps He would have been fleshed out but becaiuse of him having set himself the task of briding continuity he can't focus on the clone wars which are hardly unimportant.

lukeiamyourdad
10-16-2004, 09:24 AM
?

No the story is as it is. It was supposed to be in 9 episodes but it was better in only 6. 9 would have felt stretched.

Admiral Vostok
10-16-2004, 09:42 AM
The concept of storytelling means that a storyteller focusses on the important parts of the story. Yes, the Clone Wars are an important part of the Star Wars Galaxy, but are only a background to the story that takes place, and as such the Clone Wars themselves should not take the spotlight.

Every little detail of every minor character is also not important to the story. I'd like to, if I may, compare the Star Wars movies to the Indiana Jones movies, because while both are extremely popular stories created by George Lucas, they differ fundamentally when you look at their fan base. Star Wars is a science fiction, and as a general rule sci-fi fans seem to love the concept of an Expanded Universe, a supporting set of stories based on the originator story. Indiana Jones, on the other hand, is not a sci-fi, so the need to create an EU to please the mad consumers that are sci-fi fans is not evident.

Yet both Star Wars and Indiana Jones are still stories, both based in many regards on the same inspiration. So, how did Indy meet Short Round? How did he meet Sallah? What of Henry Jones Sr.'s adventures and his close friendship with Duncan? What ever happened to Marion and Willy? The fact is that no-one cares. They aren't important to the story, so they can be left up to the viewers imagination.

So it is science fiction fandom itself that is the problem. Studies on science fiction fans have found them to be massive consumers, collecting merchandise, comic books, and all manner of other geeky paraphernalia. As such, EU was born, not out of necessity to fill in the gaps in the story, but instead because it is a well known fact that sci-fi fans will consume what ever is given to them.

"Gaps" in the story and incomplete backgrounds do not need to be filled in. It is only because sci-fi fans are so willing to part with their money that the EU exists. If Indiana Jones had aliens in it, sci-fi fans would be all over it too, and no doubt an extensive Indiana Jones EU would exist to fill in all the backgrounds of the minor characters. EU is a result of the fandom, not of the story itself.

Well I seem to have ranted a bit, but evidently this is the thread to rant in.

Nairb Notneb
10-19-2004, 02:36 AM
I think that we should rename this thread the "Rant all you want, we'll make more" thread. But I don't care isn't that why it was started, so that we would talk here?

Anyway, I think that you hit the nail on the proverbial head Vostok. The EU came from the parched lips of a dried up and empty world of starving Star Wars fans that desperately wanted more Han and Luke. George Lucas' imagination, marketing skills and the hunger for more Star Wars was/is a volatile combination when it comes to consumerism and capitalism. It is a beautiful thing, especially when your last name is Lucas and you have big curly hair.

Oh, one more thing. Viceroy, I mean no offense by this. The use of punctuation would be greatly appreciated please because it will make your posts easier to understand. Thank you.

Kryllith
10-19-2004, 05:08 AM
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok
Kryllith: Again, no the revelation is not assured, I'm just assuming in the tradition of good storytelling that there will be a revelation. Why would Yoda and Mace Windu act all shifty upon hearing Sifo-Dyas' name if there was to be no revelation in Revenge of the Sith?
I don't know, but then we don't know much about Sifo-Dyas. For all we know, he may have been one of the people to leave the Jedi like Dooku did (anyone have a list of the names?). What we do know for certain is that he was a Master (as indicated by Obiwan) and that he (or someone using his name) ordered the clones supposedly with the authority of the Jedi Council. Maybe he was a debilitative old man who never went anywhere, and it's just the use of the name that's causing the look, not anything to do with the actual person.

Indeed the argument against Maul being unable to conceal his identity like Palpatine can is just an assumption of yours, there is no evidence for it and it doesn't necessarily hold true.
Yes, but nor is there any evidence supporting the theory that he CAN conceal his identity. As I, and at least one other person, indicated, Palpatine's concealment doesn't work as evidence because we never actively (at least, not unequivocally) see him using the Force in the presence of those who might detect it. Truth is, we can picked at each others assumptions for being assumptions, but it won't get us anywhere since there is, as yet, nothing that we can use to verify them.

Nairb Notneb
10-19-2004, 08:02 AM
Kryllith I agree, there will be no way to confirm any of our speculations until the movie comes out and then one of us will come out and say "ha, I told you so, I was right!". Or, non of us will be right.

To give a half answer to your "list" of fallen Jedi, according to the EU, there were what was known as the lost 12 I believe. Twelve Jedi that left the order. I don't know much about them but I believe Dooku was one of them as was Aura Sing (spelling).

Admiral Vostok
10-19-2004, 10:03 AM
They were the Lost Twenty. Supposedly the busts in the Jedi Archives are of the Lost Twenty, so Jedi can think about why these strange individuals left the Jedi Order. Obi-Wan was seen looking at Dooku's bust in the Jedi Archives scene. And I don't believe Aurra Sing was a Jedi. Personally I consider Aurra Sing to be the most hyped-up EU character ever; few characters with a single second of screen time in any Star Wars movies have had as much EU written about them. To me she's just a podrace spectator.

Truth is, we can picked at each others assumptions for being assumptions, but it won't get us anywhere since there is, as yet, nothing that we can use to verify them.Indeed. I always stated my assumptions as being so, I just mean that your assumptions don't necessarily disprove mine in the same way mine don't disprove yours.

And indeed this thread has become the "Rant about whatever Star Wars thing you want to" thread. And I like it.

DK_Viceroy
10-19-2004, 10:22 AM
Careful I'm feeling Philosophical and that staement sounded awfully shallow to me.

Admiral Vostok
10-19-2004, 10:56 AM
Which statement in particular? There are several in my post.

And I invite you to philosophise, Viceroy.

Just getting back to the whole Maul/Sifo-Dyas/Greivous argument: I'm 80% confident that Darth Maul is Sifo-Dyas, but probably only 40% confident that he is also in turn Greivous. So I believe the Maul/Sifo-Dyas connection (and would be surprised if it didn't turn out that way), and while it would be cool I don't believe as much that Maul/Sifo-Dyas is Greivous (I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't turn out that way).

lukeiamyourdad
10-20-2004, 07:30 PM
This is actually the longest thread we have now so keep this from dying.

Must...find..something...to discuss...


EDIT: Ok it's not the longest but still...

Nairb Notneb
10-21-2004, 03:07 AM
I agree that Aura Sing was one of the most hyped up characters ever, and one of the ugliest chicks to come out of Star Wars too. I think her story goes something like her being trained by some Jedi named the Dark Woman but then she split and started to hunt the Jedi down and kept their light sabers as trophies. The story seems similar to Grievous in a way. I wonder if Grievous is Aura Sing?

Kryllith
10-21-2004, 05:13 AM
That would be pretty interesting, given the quick cut scene to Aura Sing in the podrace in TPM. Talk about developing a character who got little time in the movie (even though, granted, she was put in there just as a cameo).

Kryllith

Admiral Vostok
10-21-2004, 07:03 AM
LOL, Grevious is Aurra Sing! The average veiwer of Star Wars would have no idea what was going on there...

And saying that Aurra Sing is one of the ugliest chicks in Star Wars means you're obviously forgetting the fat dancer in Jabba's palace... or Sy Snootles... or Gardulla the Hutt for that matter :p

Nairb Notneb
10-21-2004, 08:20 AM
Vostok, I knew you would say that because I was thinking of them while I was typing that statement. Well, I didn't think of Gardulla.

swphreak
10-21-2004, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok
... or Gardulla the Hutt for that matter :p

Technically, Hutts really don't have sexes... they sorta reproduce asexually... and I really don't know why I still remember this...

DK_Viceroy
10-21-2004, 10:13 AM
Sy SNootles was wearing lipstick in one edtition wasn't she?

She must be attractive by her species standards.

The Ugliest thing in Star wars has to be the emporer or as someone else called him Madame Monkey Eyes

lukeiamyourdad
10-21-2004, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by StarWarsPhreak
Technically, Hutts really don't have sexes... they sorta reproduce asexually... and I really don't know why I still remember this...

:eyeraise:

Too much info.


But yeah monkey-eyed emperor was ugly but now it isn't really an issue anymore.

Admiral Vostok
10-21-2004, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by StarWarsPhreak
Technically, Hutts really don't have sexes... they sorta reproduce asexually... and I really don't know why I still remember this... Yet another piece of EU contradicted by the prequel trilogy. :rolleyes:

Though I should add that little nugget of info was created from the Han Solo Trilogy, which in my opinion is one of the better works of EU that captures the feeling of the movies relatively well.

DK_Viceroy
10-21-2004, 11:11 AM
Actually Phreak They Switch sexes so when they want to have a child they become female and impregnate themselves and then afterwards they become Male or i can't remeber but it may be sexless.

I know madame Monkey Eyes had concubines something like a hundred of them so I'd hardly say he's something you'd WANT to look at.

Who would want to be in the same room as that vengeful wrteched person?

How is a hutts sex contradicted by anything? I don't see Obi-wan or Qui-Gon suddenly talking to Anakin about the Birds and The Bees of a Hutt do you?

Admiral Vostok
10-21-2004, 11:27 AM
The fact they refer to Gardulla as "she". If it was as the EU claims, Hutts would be correctly called "it", or at least "he" all the time.

Also the way Anakin speaks of her, it sounds as though Gardulla was both female at the time of the Phantom Menace and female when she lost Anakin and Shmi to Watto, which is unlikely if their sex-changing is as described.

Also, in the book it describes Hutts in their female form as much smaller and differently coloured than male Hutts. This was an attempt to justify the poorly made CGI of Jabba in ANHSE: they tried to explain it be claiming Jabba was in a female form at the time he confronted Han. The different colouring theory at least was disproven by Gardulla's appearance in TPM, and indeed Jabba's renewal in ANHDVD also does away with the messy theory.

DK_Viceroy
10-21-2004, 11:43 AM
She May Have decided to crank the babies out and pop em out as fast as she could:D

Besides a hutt could have a preference to acting male or female.

I never saw Gardualla in TPM where is he/she/it after all Gardualla may have prefernces towards being female or male. It's certainly an interesting topic in Sci-Fi where an Asexual race has some people who prefer to be male and some female. how they reproduce I don't know.

Why though the Emporer had something like a hundred Concubines I don't know He must have been a dirty old man He certainly comes across as one in dark empire asking Leia to "Help" him to bed. It's hard to Imagine something that old and fossilised could even be able to conceive a child.

Admiral Vostok
10-21-2004, 11:53 AM
Gardulla is seen accompanying Jabba in his box at the podrace.

And the Emperor only had concubines in EU. With the protectiveness and jealousy evident in Sith Lords it seems unlikely to me that he would surround himself with concubines.

DK_Viceroy
10-21-2004, 11:55 AM
Yes But Sith Lords Also Like Power so The Emporer would propably enjoy forcing himself on Concubines.

Vostok I'm not happy that I've been forced into this region Of Star Wars Discussion.

Drop The Sexuality Of Any And All Star Wars Creature NOW.

Admiral Vostok
10-21-2004, 12:00 PM
But Sith Lords are very untrustworthy, that's why there's only ever a master and an apprentice; if there's more the master can't trust the apprentices not to gang up on him.

If the Emperor did have concubines, he'd probably see them as a way that Vader could get at him. That's just my impression of the situation though.

DK_Viceroy
10-21-2004, 12:04 PM
If He didn't Trust Darth Vader then why would he give the First Ever Super Star Destroyer to him at the time it could destroy any Star Destroyer and the fleet he had at endor could have easily blown the Emporer's little tower

He had Conucbines by the Boat load and that'ss all i'll say He was a reall dirty old man.

swphreak
10-21-2004, 02:47 PM
I remember the Emperor's concumbines being the "Emperor's Hands." His special assassins, which sounds more like something the Emperor would have.

Admiral Vostok
10-21-2004, 06:53 PM
LOL, spelling is funny
Originally posted by DK_Viceroy
ConucbinesThey must be from Canada.
Originally posted by StarWarsPhreak
concumbinesIs that some sort of long green vegetable?

Well maybe it's just me, but I can't see Palpatine surrounded by concubines or assassins. If I was Palpatine and I had a bunch of concubines I'd rather bring them to the Death Star to keep me company than the handful of old ugly advisor dudes he brought instead.

lukeiamyourdad
10-21-2004, 07:02 PM
Lol Vostok is starting to correct spelling mistakes. Looks like I've gotten through to you.

We don't know for what team Palpatine plays. I mean, he did introduce a young Jedi to the temptations of the dark side. A more seductive side of the force.

Then he seduced an old Jedi...Then he felt lonely after he died, he got lonely and now he's surrounded by his bitches concubines and a huge mecanical vibrator enforcer.

DK_Viceroy
10-22-2004, 12:33 AM
Do you really think the empire would have came out with a gaggle of CONCUBINES or a bunch of advisors?

Coming out with a gaggle of CONCUBINES would have lowered respect for him in the eyes of his people

Nairb Notneb
10-22-2004, 02:44 AM
I'm not so sure that the Emperor was worried about having earning the respect of the people as much as he wanted the people to fear him. And if he had that many babes in the bed then he probably had some sort of std and that would have caused a fear of getting to close to him. That might explain his bad teeth and yellowish eyes. Hepatitis?

lukeiamyourdad
10-22-2004, 05:30 AM
Exactly. If they don't respect him they can die.
Hugh Hefner seems to be a respected man .

DK_Viceroy
10-22-2004, 05:52 AM
I Am Under assault my innocent crative mind is being raped by your midnless bablings.

The emporer was like that becase he was old and powerful He even says it himself in Dark Empire

"Flesh Does Not Easily Support Such Power"

Nairb Notneb
10-22-2004, 08:24 AM
To change the subject for the humble Viceroys sake, check out this spoiler picture. Don't look (I know, now you have to look) if you don't want to see some way cool information about Episode Three, Revenge of the Sith.

http://www.cswu.cz/obiwan/obi/ep3/07.jpg

Awesome picture of some Jedi aint it? Evidently there has been a "shake up" in the council. I will say no more so I don't spoil a potential story line for anybody.

swphreak
10-22-2004, 09:02 AM
Ki is most likely on another planet fighting the confederacy...

Admiral Vostok
10-22-2004, 09:56 AM
Hot damn! I shouldn't have looked at that picture!

In response to Phreak:
Clearly Ki-Adi-Mundi is not a hologram, but is in fact a ghost. All holograms in Star Wars have the horizontal lines like an old TV set, whereas Ki-Adi-Mundi here looks more like Obi-Wan when he appears as a ghost.

And here's another spoiler:
Not only is Obi-Wan on the Jedi Council, but Anakin is too!

DK_Viceroy
10-22-2004, 10:46 AM
You know Holograms can be of that quality Artoo is hardly state of the art and He's almost definetly been damaged a little bit during his adventures.

The rebel alliance can't afford the best equipment so why could they get the best Holographic equipment The republic however could.

Admiral Vostok
10-22-2004, 02:02 PM
No, holograms cannot be of that quality. With respect to Artoo, his recording of Leia in ANH, his recording of Luke in ROTJ and his recording of the battle plan in TPM all had the old TV set lines running through the image as I described, which the above picture does not.

And if the Republic had holograms of that quality they would have used them in the number of holograms we've seen (Palpatine's secretary, Obi-Wan's report from Kamino, Obi-Wan's report from Geonosis, etc...). Again though they all had the TV lines.

DK_Viceroy
10-22-2004, 02:09 PM
I.MAY. Be Wrong.

but. I. don't. think. that. the. jedi. council. would. have. a. force. ghost. on. the. jedi. council.

Admiral Vostok
10-22-2004, 02:12 PM
Indeed you may be wrong. I'm willing to bet my entire reputation as a Star Wars Fanatic that it is indeed a ghost and not a hologram we are seeing there.

DK_Viceroy
10-22-2004, 02:16 PM
I'm doubtful that that scene will even be in ep 3 I'm beginning to think it's a left over scene from ep 2 since I don't recall their being a time where Obi-wan could take off to go to courscant and be buddy buddy with the council.

Admiral Vostok
10-22-2004, 02:22 PM
Oh please. Obi-Wan's hair is in the style of Episode III, not Episode II. And he is not being buddy buddy with the council, he is on the council. It's clearly an Episode III scene.

lukeiamyourdad
10-22-2004, 02:25 PM
I think Ki is dead. He's probably been killed by Grievious in the Clone Wars mini-series. I suppose that mini-serie can almost be considered cannon now(if the pictures is true).

Admiral Vostok
10-22-2004, 02:28 PM
Continuous maybe, not canon. Don't tell me you too are stumbling with the definitions, lukeiamyourdad! For once you start down the dark path forever will it dominate your destiny.

DK_Viceroy
10-22-2004, 02:29 PM
Enough with the babbling already why don't you go and find a yellow pages and look for the nearest Star Wars church and preach there people are allowed opinions.

Besides it is cannon whether you like it or not.

lukeiamyourdad
10-22-2004, 02:34 PM
Find better arguments then that Viceroy.

If he really has been killed during the Clone Wars mini-serie by Grievious and it is mentionned, I suppose we could consider it almost cannon(even though there are some features in the Clone Wars mini-serie that I hate like that Sith assasin and that weird biker-droid Obi-Wan fought against).

DK_Viceroy
10-22-2004, 02:55 PM
I Like Assajj Ventress She Is Very cool and I can Identify with her I like her rhetoric I few tweaks and it could be very useful.

The Jedi are Corrupt Like a candle going out in the dark.

The Jedi MUST Fall.

They Must Be Punished.

I Like the girl she is very funny and shique.

She was also the result of Concept art for Dooku because they had imagined a Sith Witch. Though I think it may have been a result of trying to have at least one female sith in the films for the sake of political correctness.

lukeiamyourdad
10-22-2004, 02:59 PM
Nevertheless, I don't really like her.

DK_Viceroy
10-22-2004, 03:01 PM
I Love her she has so much Character she really fits in I personally think she would have fitted quite well into one of the films. Perhaps she's this mysterious EU character in EP3 Perhaps a trial scene and she launches into her Rehtoric That would be brilliant.

The Jedi Must Fall.

They Must Be Punished.

Admiral Vostok
10-22-2004, 08:10 PM
Besides it is cannon whether you like it or not.Again I ask for evidence for such an outrageous statement. Please say exactly why it is Canon.

Please also note there is only a single "n" in the word Canon.

swphreak
10-22-2004, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok In response to Phreak:
Clearly Ki-Adi-Mundi is not a hologram, but is in fact a ghost. All holograms in Star Wars have the horizontal lines like an old TV set, whereas Ki-Adi-Mundi here looks more like Obi-Wan when he appears as a ghost.

Right you are. I just didn't look at the picture that hard.

*stamps "Spelling whore" on Vostok* :xp:

DK_Viceroy
10-23-2004, 04:39 AM
I'm STill STrongly Of the opinion that won't appear in EP 3 I think it's a Prototype shot. That's propably been allowed to be shown to set the community theorising and anticipating.

Admiral Vostok
10-23-2004, 08:15 AM
Originally posted by StarWarsPhreak
*stamps "Spelling whore" on Vostok* :xp:That stamp is well deserved :D

As most people already know I'm quite fussy with my spelling, particularly when it comes to a certain species of eight foot tall walking carpets. But the difference between cannon and canon I feel is also important. A cannon is a big gun, but canon is the most holiest of texts on a given subject.

Nairb Notneb
10-25-2004, 08:43 AM
Hey Vostok, if you don't like the "Spelling Whore" then how about a title that shows respect to one of the greatest TV shows ever, Seinfeld. I dub the, "The Spelling Nazi" after "The Soup Nazi".

Oh, and this picture is clearly from ROTS. If you have opened an issue of Insider at all this year, or if you have been to the official site, you would have seen at least one or ten pictures of Mr. Kenobi with that crazy hair cut. Mr. Viceroy, this is not a picture from anywhere but episode Three. You are correct about one thing, this picture was released to increase speculation and to make us all drool.

By the way, who (like myself) is going to go see the “The Incredibles” just to see the Episode Three Trailer on its opening debut?

Nairb Notneb
10-25-2004, 08:52 AM
ok, I solved (I think) the discussion, and some might not like it, and some will enjoy being right.

http://aparagonofanimals.com/v-web/gallery/albums/insider78/787a.sized.jpg

If you read the inscription at the bottom it states that KI is a holo even though in the pic it looks like he’s a dead guy. Nice teaser though ain’t it?

DK_Viceroy
10-25-2004, 09:50 AM
Double Post Alert

Double Post Alert

I'll stay out of that argument since I think it's for the good of us all.

However I still think it's a shot whipped up to create theories but then for Lucas to turn around and say it's not in Of course it'll look authentic but that's no gaurantee to it actually being in.

Admiral Vostok
10-25-2004, 02:04 PM
Indeed Viceroy, it could be a conspiracy. But if you can consider this to be something cooked up to throw the fans off the scent, can you not also see that the concept art of Greivous with his cat-eyes could be a similar distractionary tactic?

Nairb, being a Seinfeld fan I accept the title of Spelling Nazi even moreso than Spelling Whore.

As for The Incredibles, I was planning to see it already, but now it's showing the trailer I'll be seeing it in the first day or so of release rather than a few weeks after release as would otherwise be the case.

DK_Viceroy
10-25-2004, 02:10 PM
I'd never call anyone a Spelling Nazi because it's not nice.

Vostok are you gonna write up a Battle report you said you would.

Admiral Vostok
10-25-2004, 06:38 PM
Well, I don't recall saying I did, but I have anyway.

And Spelling Nazi is far nicer than Spelling Whore when taken with the Seinfeld context.

DK_Viceroy
10-26-2004, 01:37 AM
Well if you don't mind a title like that then I suppose you want the title Air Nazi?

Great Battle Report BTW.

Admiral Vostok
10-26-2004, 07:56 AM
Well Air Nazi would not be proper usage of the term in the Seinfeld context. Here's the fundamental difference:
I mass as much air force as possible. I don't mass spelling. Hence Air Whore.
I am militaristic about spelling. I am not militaristic about air forces. Hence Spelling Nazi.

Nairb Notneb
10-26-2004, 09:03 AM
Sorry for the double post (I'm so touched that you noticed Viceroy, how observant of you). I knew somebody would say something and by somebody I mean you know who! Just kidding. After I posted I ran into (head first by the way) that new pic and had to let you good people know about it. I haven't seen the latest Insider magazine yet, but it looks to me that it is a scan of one of its pages. If I get a copy I'll confirm it and let you all know. I'm kind of disappointed, I think a dead Jedi on the council is a cool idea for a scene in the movie.

Maybe when Lucas releases ROTS to DVD he can change it to his definitive version and include it this time.

Oh, and your use of "Air Nazi" would not be correct, I'm afraid Viceroy, close, but quite right. And it is a title to bare proudly I would say, one of honor.

DK_Viceroy
10-26-2004, 09:47 AM
I would be tempted to pack anyone who Claims to be proud of being an anything Nazi off to Nuremburg.

Then again that might not work since the Neo Nazi Party in Germany is on the ascendant again particularly in Eastern Germany.

Admiral Vostok
10-26-2004, 12:23 PM
Then again that would clearly indicate you know nothing of Seinfeld, widely recognised as the greatest television show ever.

Nairb, if the caption is correct then I would say the shot is incomplete. I've realised that while the picture doesn't have the trademark "TV lines" of holograms, it also doesn't have the blue sparks on the aura of the image that ghosts have. So as of yet it can't really be determined to be one or the other: if it's a hologram ILM is yet to add the TV lines; if it is a ghost they are yet to add the blue aura.

One thing to think about though is the fact that holograms rarely fit into the environment - the closest we've seen is Sidious apparently sitting at the conference table on board the Droid Control Ship in The Phantom Menace, and even then it wasn't apparent that the hologram was "sitting" in the chair there. On the other hand ghosts (particularly Obi-Wan whilst discussing Leia in Return of the Jedi) have been known to interact with their environment in a normal way.

Just some more food for thought. My point is I don't think the case can be closed just yet on Ki-Adi-Mundi being either hologram or ghost. If he's a hologram it's far different from anything we've so far seen, if he's a ghost it is only a little bit different from what we've seen.

DK_Viceroy
10-26-2004, 12:32 PM
However I still think it could be a Hologram the Jedi Council would obviosul;y have far beter technology than that put in a very old and possibly nearly obsolete model and after all what quality would you expect from something so small.

All i'm saying is that the jedi council would have better holo projectors.

Seinfield I don't think is broadcast in Europe So I can hardly have watched it.

Calling someone a Nazi in Europe is termed as a grave Insult particularly as of Late with the Neo Nazi Party on the rise again. I'm hearing a lot of predictions that the Neo Nazi's will control half of the German Reichstag in less than 20 years.

Admiral Vostok
10-26-2004, 12:44 PM
All i'm saying is that the jedi council would have better holo projectors.Unlikely. Not only have we had previous examples of the Jedi Council using holograms (which have the signature TV lines as I have described), but I find it very hard to believe that the Jedi Council has better holo projectors than the Emperor (as we can see the TV lines in his appearance in The Empire Strikes Back). If excellent holo projectors existed, surely they would have been installed in both the Emperor's Palace and Vader's room on the Executor.
Seinfield I don't think is broadcast in Europe So I can hardly have watched it.You poor deprived Europeans. As I said Seinfeld is widely regarded as the greatest show ever, so I find it's absence in Europe, and particularly in English-speaking UK, a little sad.
Calling someone a Nazi in Europe is termed as a grave InsultOf course it is. It is every where else in the world too. But no-one's calling anyone a Nazi, I'm being called a Spelling Nazi. The first word is essential to get the proper meaning. By the same token calling someone a whore is highly offensive but calling someone an Air Whore is not.

DK_Viceroy
10-26-2004, 12:53 PM
and yet We "Poor" Europeans Don't Take The American Attitude

http://www.idrewthis.org/2004/43,000.gif

We Suscribe to this stance

http://www.idrewthis.org/2004/binladen.gif

I doubt we're missing out on anything especially since Pokemon has managed to crawl round the globe to Europe I can hear someone saying about bloody time, but hey what are we gonna do cry? NO I doubt we need a stupid TV show why do we brits need to watch telly when their are so few sunny days in this country where Perpetual Rain fall isn't viewed as strange.

Admiral Vostok
10-26-2004, 01:02 PM
If you knew anything about Seinfeld, you'd know it too constantly makes fun of the "American" attitude. If you're rejecting it just because it's American then I really do pity you.

Then again when one of the most popular imported TV Shows in the UK is Neighbours, I guess there just isn't any accounting for British taste ;)

But this is not the place to discuss Seinfeld, as great a show as it is. So just accept for a minute that you might be missing out on the second greatest piece of pop culture ever created (after Star Wars of course, which I might remind you is also American).

DK_Viceroy
10-26-2004, 01:10 PM
Considering Since I revile most forms of Television Show I am immune to your pre-conceptions on British taste.

If someone erected a Gallows in the middle of a feild everyone in the surrounding area would flock their to see the executions it is human nature to watch others sufferings.

Why do you think such APPALLING soaps are widespread?

The only thing remotley like a soap I enjoyed watching was Micro Soap because it was about a family more accident Prone then mine Indeed my family is so accident prone every emergency service person knows us on a first name basis.

I detest American Politics and Military Methods I do not detest what comes out of america well I will make exceptions.

Star Wars is above any and all pety countires on this mortal coil so do not muddy the waters.

To associate Star Wars With American Politics is like Tossing Poision into the Fountain of Youth and Knowledge.

Admiral Vostok
10-26-2004, 01:16 PM
All I'm asking is that you admit Seinfeld might be a great TV show, and you might be missing out. Since you've never seen it but those who have count it as the greatest show of all time, at least give it the benefit of the doubt.

Don't bad mouth it just because I like it.

DK_Viceroy
10-26-2004, 01:26 PM
Considering Since I revile most forms of Television Show

Vostok Did you read what I said.

I Don't like many TV shows.

I've already Said I haven't heard of it.

The Apaling soaps of which I speak are Neighbours and it's Ilk

I Didn't Bad mouth Seinfidge or what ever it's called.

I'm not gonna admit it's a great show because I've never seen it and I never say what is good or bad about something I do not know of.

Admiral Vostok
10-26-2004, 06:40 PM
I never asked you to say it was good. Read my post. I ask you to admit there is a possibility it is good. I even italicised the word "might".

This is why we argue so much, Viceroy. You're just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. Furthermore, you're pretending you've never heard of it to enfuriate me even more. I can't believe you're that ignorant to not have even heard of Seinfeld, and I'm sure that isn't true.

This discussion is over as far as I'm concerned. You really are a bit of a lost cause if you'll just argue for the sake of arguing. Maybe I should have left you on my ignore list; after all, you never apologised for insulting me unprovoked.

DK_Viceroy
10-27-2004, 03:33 AM
I thought I apologised I'll do it now anyway

I'm Sorry

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing I never admit something is or might be anything unless I know what I'm talking about it isn't in my nature. So i'm hardly doing to go against something that's always been one of my principals.

Truly I have never heard of Seinfield beofre it was mentioned here Even if it was on British TV it'd propbaly be DAYTIME television and of course TV's to watch what school would class as trashy TV in school are as rare as Hen's Teeth.

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguin All I'm saying is that people have different definitions of Greatest some Pathtetic people would Think Neighbours Desevres that Mantle. I Myself Am proud not to class myself as one of those idiots.

Admiral Vostok
10-27-2004, 07:30 AM
I know people have different definitions of greatest. I'm not asking you to say it is the greatest. If you can't even admit there's a chance in hell it might be good I find that a little too stubborn.

And truly I do find it odd that you've never heard of it. It is an interesting snippet of how pop culture is completely different even in similar countries. Seinfeld has changed the world as much as Star Wars has - it revolutionised and reinvigorated television in the same way Star Wars revolutionised and reinvigorated cinema. Star Wars has certainly left it's mark on society - sci-fi films are always trying to live up to what Star Wars has done - and Seinfeld is much the same. Since Seinfeld ended, every single American sitcom produced has at least one recurring character that was in Seinfeld at some point (this is a theory I have - other consumers of American pop culture feel free to try and dispute this theory, I haven't found a single sitcom without an actor who has been in at least one Episode of Seinfeld).

So you see in the same way I pity those who haven't seen Star Wars (and I think you probably would too as do most Star Wars fans), I also pity those who haven't seen Seinfeld, as they're missing out on one of the most successful pieces of entertainment ever produced, that has left such a mark on society that to not have experienced it makes you an outsider.

And thanks for the apology.

Nairb Notneb
10-27-2004, 08:46 AM
You two crack me up. It doesn't take much of anything to set you off at each other. But that's ok, not that there's anything wrong with that.

For a minute there I thought we were going to get into politics in this thread. I'm glad we didn't because there are other threads for that and I'd like to keep them there. there are a lot of old British "telly" shows that I enjoy. Faulty Towers, Are you being served. I know these are very old shows but I think they are hilarious. I used to watch them here on a PBS station that played their old reruns late at night. Funny stuff, very funny.

As for the resurgence of the Nazi party in Germany, bad idea. But don't worry old chap, we'll lend a hand if you need and want it.

DK_Viceroy
10-27-2004, 09:36 AM
Actually the resurgant Nazi Party seems to have dropped all of the things that made it such a detestable party However they of course favour at least a partial dis-assembly of democracy.

AT present I would propably say that Americans interfering in Europe propably wouldn't come across very well because of the Well Known situation recently.

I Won't mention it because this place is at present a sacred sanctom free from political propoganda.

Some of those "old" British shows are still made especially Keeping Up with Apperances and the DREADED BUCKET WOMAN chuck her at any budding Adolf Hitler and he'd ben crying out for cyanide within 10 minutes.

Personally I prefer doing things outside and enjoying the abundant space and Nature that is the British Countryside.

Living on the Periphery of a major city/countryside gives you the best of both worlds.

Personally I liked Andromeda that didn't actually try to emulate a Star Wars like theme which I found profoundly refreshing.

is this Sanefidge anything like the infamous Jerry Springer since you don't have to have watched that to know it that is a very common example held up. Much like me and Imperium Galactica 2 which I think should be given the award of best RTS every created. Now if only Digital Reality was still around to make a PERFECT Imperium Galactica 3.

How paridoxical that the thread about the imminent death of the forum brings it back to life and becomes one of the most active in the place.

Nairb Notneb
10-27-2004, 09:56 AM
Here here!!

Being outside and enjoy nature is one of life's great pleasures and luxuries. Not everyone can do it, nor do they know how to enjoy the outdoor. I am most fortunate to live right across the street from a beach, more or less on the Gulf of Mexico. I have made sure that I do what I can to give back to the environment here by volunteering my time by becoming a "Turtle Walker". During sea turtle season I walk a designated stretch of beach here on certain days and check for sea turtle nests. Its a great thing to do. It was fun until we had all of these hurricanes. But those were fun to, from a certain point of view.

DK_Viceroy
10-27-2004, 10:02 AM
I Like where I live to.

I live in an area of outstanding natural beauty you look out the window and you see fields strech far out into the distance you can hear birds twiter and see horses dance around And when you go out the air is pure and clean and the sky is usually ( when it isn't raining) Pure blue with a nize breeze with it being nice and warm.

I think they should rename South Wellfield to The Garden Of Eden.

Who needs a telly when you can go out side and live life.

Isn't Florida on Hurricane Alley?

Admiral Vostok
10-27-2004, 07:11 PM
Now I know you're calling it "Sanefidge" to annoy me. You can't deny you're doing that just to get me angry. And don't even mention Jerry Springer in the same sentence. Don't be lazy and look up Seinfeld using this fabulous invention called the Internet before you embarass yourself even more.

That's great you enjoy the outdoors. I don't mind it myself. But I can balance indoor and outdoor entertainment well enough to appreciate what each has to offer. Don't indirectly criticise me by bad mouthing TV. If Seinfeld isn't shown where you live, no wonder you don't watch TV.

lukeiamyourdad
10-27-2004, 08:14 PM
Seinfeld sucks :xp: Never liked it for some reason...

DK_Viceroy
10-28-2004, 01:29 AM
I think I'm gomma withdraw from this conversation Before I loose my temper at having someone I SHOULD know about a TV Show especially when I think the majority of them are stupid.

Someone change the Topic from Loathsome Television to anything BUT politics.

Admiral Vostok
10-28-2004, 07:25 AM
Sorry if I crossed the line. I was just hoping to educate you of this wonderful piece of entertainment. If someone had never heard of Star Wars, you'd want to educate them, right?

DK_Viceroy
10-28-2004, 07:40 AM
I'd suggest they try out Star Wars But I wouldn't try to INDOCTRINATE THEM like some have tried to with regards to TV shows. If you try to force your opinion onto someone else you'll more than likely achive the opposite affect to what your after.

Then also is the Term Ignorance is Bliss and if you didn't like a TV show you may even go as far to say you would have better of not knowing about i.

Admiral Vostok
10-28-2004, 12:56 PM
I'm hardly trying to indoctrinate you. I'm curious as to how you came to that conclusion.

Anyway, let's move the conversation more towards Star Wars, something we all know and appreciate. Is anyone here a member of Hyperspace (starwars.com's fan club)?

DK_Viceroy
10-28-2004, 01:07 PM
I don't care for the fact that Hyperspace club exists.

It creates a group of elite within the star wars Comunity so I consider most Hyperspace Members Elitist and Facist.

However if they were to post a link to the EP 3 trailer My opinion could change especially in respects to them.

Admiral Vostok
10-28-2004, 03:32 PM
I wouldn't go so far as to say it creates an elitest sub-class of Star Wars fans. However I'm not really of the opinion that it is really worth the money. If I was hugely interested in spoilers for ROTS I might think differently, but there isn't much grabbing my attention at the moment.

And I wouldn't be concerned about the trailer. It will be available for download from several sources only hours after it's Hyperspace release.

lukeiamyourdad
10-28-2004, 06:13 PM
Fascist?! Wth?!

Stop saying such bullcrap. You can hardly consider someone who pays 20$ for a year's subscription elitist or fascist.

I don't know how you can end up with such a ridiculous and downright stupid comparison.

DK_Viceroy
10-29-2004, 02:28 AM
What about the snobs that go around saying "i've got hyperspace I'm beter than you"

Beleive me people like that exist and they deserve to be executed.

Nairb Notneb
10-29-2004, 02:44 AM
I would agree with Lukesdad. I would also say that I have contemplated joining Hyperspace a few times, I mean its only 20 bucks. Then I realize everything that is on Hyperspace eventually and almost immediately comes here to the forums anyway so why bother. I think I haven't joined because it would required to much effort and its a waste of twenty dollars, in my opinion. If you want spoilers, go to the spoiler thread, they have lots of pictures and things like that. Or pick up the occasional Star Wars Insider magazine. (Or just flip through it on the magazine rack)

lukeiamyourdad
10-29-2004, 06:08 AM
Originally posted by DK_Viceroy
What about the snobs that go around saying "i've got hyperspace I'm beter than you"

Beleive me people like that exist and they deserve to be executed.

How many do you think they are? All of them? A majority? Fallacy. Just because some Hyperspace member pissed you off doesn't mean all of them are snobs. They're not the majority I can tell you that, in fact, it's safe to say they're a very small minority. Attacking Hyperspace won't let them go away.

If you're wondering, no I'm not a Hyperspace member. I just defend them against your fallacious accusations.

Nairb Notneb
10-29-2004, 08:39 AM
I have never met a member that seemed t be snobbish in the least bit. I don't even think that I have met many members, that I am aware of however.

swphreak
10-29-2004, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by DK_Viceroy
I don't care for the fact that Hyperspace club exists.

It creates a group of elite within the star wars Comunity so I consider most Hyperspace Members Elitist and Facists

Not really. In fact, Hyperspace is included in the official fan club now, which is also included in a SW Insider subscription. Once my Insider subscriptions ends, I can renew, and get Hyperspace as part of the deal.

As it is now, Hyperspace isn't worth it, but since it's included in the deal, I have no complaints.

Admiral Vostok
10-29-2004, 09:36 AM
I have to agree with Luke's Dad here.

I suggest you look up the definition of Fascist, Viceroy, and henceforth stop using it in ways that make it obvious that you don't know what it means.

DK_Viceroy
10-29-2004, 10:20 AM
Like I have said elsewhere words often end up aquiring an additional meaning Facist has acehived the secondary meaning of being an insult with respects to being Snobish mean cruel and a few other things.

Let's see let's migrate to another topic Let us see.

Who's coming to the Forum Game this Weekend:D

lukeiamyourdad
10-29-2004, 12:36 PM
Stick to the usual definitions of the word so nobody can be confuse by what you post.

Nairb Notneb
10-29-2004, 01:04 PM
Well, that wouldn't be a bad deal then if you get Insider, Hyperspace and the Fan Club. What does that cost you?

http://members.cox.net/patio-ranch/haunted-car.html

Admiral Vostok
10-29-2004, 01:05 PM
Viceroy, you could just admit that you're wrong once in a while instead of making lame excuses. :rolleyes:

EDIT: This just in - I probably won't be able to play at all this weekend. Maybe on Sunday, but no promises.

DK_Viceroy
10-30-2004, 02:51 AM
When I walked downsatirs last night my mum was on Bid up TV and I saw they were selling Seinfiled DVD's and they showed a clip and it looks like Freinds more than anything else. a bit tacky and cliche but looks like a rip off of friends.

lukeiamyourdad
10-30-2004, 05:58 AM
:lol:

Dude...Seinfeld was on the air before Friends...and it really isn't a Friends' rip-off nor is Friends a rip-off of Seinfeld. There just both sitcoms.

DK_Viceroy
10-30-2004, 08:16 AM
looks like Freinds more than anything else

I said LOOKS since I've never seen Seinfield beforee that short clip I can't say for certain that's why i said LOOKS.

swphreak
10-30-2004, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by Nairb Notneb
Well, that wouldn't be a bad deal then if you get Insider, Hyperspace and the Fan Club. What does that cost you?

http://www.starwars.com/fanclub/

And if Seinfield existed before Friends, it's impossible to be a ripoff... unless... there was time travel involved!

DK_Viceroy
10-30-2004, 10:48 AM
We must Declare war on the Evil |Time Travelling Aliens who ripped off freinds to make Sanefidge:D

lukeiamyourdad
10-30-2004, 12:53 PM
You've never seen Friends have you?

Admiral Vostok
10-31-2004, 12:14 PM
Just because two sitcoms are set in the same city is not good enough reason to claim a rip-off - especially when the supposed rip-off came three years before. By the same reasoning you could say Seinfeld is a rip-off of NYPD Blue (both set in New York City and again NYPD Blue came after Seinfeld).

Again you're making a fool of yourself by jumping to grossly uninformed conclusions.

lukeiamyourdad
10-31-2004, 12:26 PM
Even if he only saw cmall clips of both sitcoms, I don't know how someone can end up with that conclusion.

General Nitro
10-31-2004, 01:22 PM
Sitcoms? The only sitcom I want to talk about is a Star Wars sitcom. "Ohh Chewie! I'm home..."

Nairb Notneb
11-01-2004, 02:43 AM
Thanks for the link Phreak.

And as for what came first, it was Sinfledge, or Sienfeld. I even remember on one must not see TV night thing, they had a New York black out night on Thursday night crossover where all of there sitcoms that night had power outages. Sinefeld had a power outage in their building, Friends (in one of their first seasons I believe) had a power outage, Mad About You and whatever other show they had at the time. It was a gimmick. I guess it worked 'cause I watched it and I still remember it. I hate that.

Oh, and Luke'sdad, I like your old avatar better. However, blond is nice.

lukeiamyourdad
11-01-2004, 05:57 AM
Originally posted by Nairb Notneb
Oh, and Luke'sdad, I like your old avatar better. However, blond is nice.

Bah, what do you know about women?!

After years of using the same one I need a change. And it's not blonde, it's white.

Admiral Vostok
11-01-2004, 06:28 AM
Who is your new avatar? It's a little hard to make out.

DK_Viceroy
11-01-2004, 06:53 AM
I consdiered Changing my Avatar but this place would fall apart without me as/

THE GREAT JORUUS C'BAOTH

lukeiamyourdad
11-01-2004, 07:14 AM
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok
Who is your new avatar? It's a little hard to make out.

Yeah you won't find out who she is. Ever.
She's a friend of a friend.

Redwing
11-01-2004, 08:40 AM
*pokes around, surprised to see activity*

Luke: Gwuh? That is totally a Japanese video game character...isn't it?

Reason I say so is because it doesn't look like a photograph at that size, and with the white hair and the 'bishi' androgyny...I was thinking a Final Fantasy char :D

Admiral Vostok
11-01-2004, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
Yeah you won't find out who she is. Ever.
She's a friend of a friend. I see... and she's okay with you using her picture as an avatar?

DK_Viceroy
11-01-2004, 11:55 AM
I know it's Amazing but this place is getting Lively.

I could easily Imagine lukes froends biting his head of for using that picture.

She kind of looks like one of those Bumbling boobs you'd expect to see on a Power Rangers show.

Nairb Notneb
11-01-2004, 01:46 PM
Hey change is good and when you change form great to great who am I to complain?! And I suppose my color blindness has been corrected yet once again, her hair is white.

lukeiamyourdad
11-01-2004, 04:17 PM
Man too many answers to post.

Redwing-Well, she is. It's a costume she wore at an anime convention.

Vostok-The probability of her ever seeing it is very low. Besides, the picture is so small and it's a picture she posted on the internet before so...
I think she'll think it's very sweet that in my opinion, she's really cute :D

Viceroy-She can bite my head off if she wants.

Nairb-Yup color is white. Great to great is always good :D


EDIT: But then what, if I kept my Famke Janssen avatar would she come to kick my ass? Or do what she does in Goldeneye? Wait that's a pretty nice thing...

Redwing
11-01-2004, 05:34 PM
Ooooooh. That explains it. :D

Who is she dressed as? ^^

lukeiamyourdad
11-01-2004, 05:52 PM
I can't remember. x_x

Admiral Vostok
11-01-2004, 06:35 PM
Well this thread is certainly the Official Off-Topic Thread.

Was this a Halloween costume? I just experienced my first proper Halloween here in Canada, and I certainly enjoyed it more than I thought I would.

lukeiamyourdad
11-01-2004, 06:50 PM
Not at all. It's a picture she took at an anime convention.

DK_Viceroy
11-01-2004, 11:42 PM
Hallowe'en here was awesome though I did get a Wasps nest put through my Window good thing My wonderful dogs were upstairs with me. plus and there was an exterminator in the street.

Nairb Notneb
11-02-2004, 02:28 AM
I don't care who she's dressed up as. It is a very creative costume. I like it when people use there, um, imagination.

And this is a great thread. Yes. Maybe I should put some effort into my avatar. Any suggestions?

DK_Viceroy
11-02-2004, 06:10 AM
I like your new Avatar I hate his opponent because He's an Arrogant old fart that should have been killed when the Soviet Union Collapse {Trajic Event} and by the person I mean by should have been killed is George Bush.

Maybe everyone should change their Avatar's?

Admiral Vostok
11-02-2004, 06:58 AM
Hmm, maybe it is time to retire my avatar.

On the topic of American politics - and why not since this is the off-topic thread and it is election day - I am hoping much like 90% of the rest of the world that Bush does not get re-elected. I feel pretty strongly about it since whoever does get into office will be indirectly running my country. It really would be nice if Australia as the 51st state could get a vote.

EDIT: There we go, an avatar for Seinfeld fans :p

lukeiamyourdad
11-02-2004, 07:20 AM
Indeed. There was a poll in a local newspaper a few weeks ago. Shows how much the world likes Bush. Only Israel and Russia like him.

The countries where a majority doesn't like Bush:

Canada
Australia
UK
France
Germany
Spain

etc.

DK_Viceroy
11-02-2004, 07:33 AM
The Great Joruus C'Baoth Will Be Retired And Shall Go Back To Mount Tantiss

They really should try and scale Avatar's for people instead of having us clart around.

Nairb Notneb
11-02-2004, 09:15 AM
So I'm a trend setter with changing the Avatars? Well, I guess it was Lukesdad that started it not me.

I'm voting for Bush today not Kerry.

DK_Viceroy
11-02-2004, 09:25 AM
Curse the Cosmic Alignment.

I can't see what the election Results will be I'll guess I'll have to wait for it along with all the other mere mortals.

I'm gonna be laughed at Because I can't see anything about the Election in My Crystal Ball.

Admiral Vostok
11-02-2004, 09:46 AM
Stop me if people really don't want a political discussion, and Nairb stop me if I'm prying, but may I ask your reasons for voting Bush?

DK_Viceroy
11-02-2004, 09:53 AM
He can give his Reasons but after that NO DEBATE ON POLITICS.

This is the one Sanctum I have free from them.

Nairb Notneb
11-02-2004, 10:17 AM
I have no problem giving my opinions, or so I'm told. And I agree, I don't want to get into a debate either. I will simply state some views, listen to anybody else's views and we can leave them as each others views, even if you all are wrong. Just kidding with ya.

I don't agree with all of Bush's ideas, but most of them. I agree with few of Kerry's ideas. Simple math imo.

Throughout Kerry's campaign he has stated that he would not had gone into Iraq without a strong world coalition, nor without a sanction of the UN, but he would go if those conditions were met. In the early 90's when voting to go to war for the first Gulf War, all of those conditions were met, he voted no. During the vote for this Gulf War, his conditions were not near as strong and he voted yes but claims he voted no even though he voted yes.

He served in the Vietnam War, saw combat for only 3 months, earned 3 Purple Hearts (for wounds in combat) and several other distinguished medals. Upon his return he wrote books, campaigned and testified in court that our troops were murders genocidal against the Vietnamese people and renounced his medals. His testimonies were used by the Viet Cong to influence our POW's in interrogations.

In a nutshell, to keep it short, if you look at his voting record of his 20 some years in the senate and compare it to his campaign promises, they are in direct contradiction. That is why I am voting for Bush, not Kerry.

DK_Viceroy
11-02-2004, 10:42 AM
I will say only two things on the matter

http://www.idrewthis.org/2004/waffle.gif

And what was George Bush Doing During Vietnam apart from Being Cowardly.

Now let's talk about the Forum game and how many peoploe should be showing up this weekend.

Nairb Notneb
11-02-2004, 10:52 AM
I agree Viceroy, no Politician is Waffle Free. I suppose it is a choice of a lesser of two waffles now isn't it?

Anyway, back to what's important, I will get to a game one of these days once I download the needed patch and get a Sunday free of all of the stuff I have to do, no promises though (my own version of the waffle).

Admiral Vostok
11-02-2004, 12:35 PM
Well personally I wouldn't count Kerry being opposed to war in the past as a negative, but that's just me.

His voting no for the previous Gulf War doesn't seem too relevant to me. He said if the conditions had have been met for this war he would have gone it, not if those conditions were met for every single war ever. So that doesn't seem contradictory to me.

Again, the Vietnam War was a different time and a different war. Again I wouldn't count his honesty to speak out against American attrocities as a negative. Perhaps the world needs an American present who isn't convinced his countrymen are benevolent?

So those are my views, but since there has been complaints let as move away from the politics now.

I should be at the forum game this weekend... are we still going to attempt a Saturday meeting or just do Sundays now?

DK_Viceroy
11-02-2004, 01:37 PM
Well I'd say GWB is the Greater Waffler.

http://www.idrewthis.org/2004/bushandgod.gif

http://www.idrewthis.org/2004/binladen.gif

http://www.idrewthis.org/2004/bushkerry.gif

http://www.idrewthis.org/2004/confusedvoters.gif

http://www.idrewthis.org/2004/distraqtion.gif

http://www.idrewthis.org/2004/besidesiraq.gif

http://www.idrewthis.org/2004/experts.gif

Those Put forward some good points.

Indeed though If everyone attends the Forum Game we may have a full Blown * Player Epic complete with Giant Map.

It'll be interesting and some people did say they could play in November.

It'll be interesting to see how the Tweaks to my playing style will work under such a situation.

Vostok after reading through nyour battle report and you are the Resident SPELLING NAZI what does Constucted Mean?

Admiral Vostok
11-03-2004, 05:24 AM
Well I don't use go off at typos like constucted. Just intentional mis-spellings like Wookiee and Emporer.

One final word on American politics since at this point it is pretty close to over. Bush hasn't technically won yet but he probably will. While Kerry may appear a bit wishy-washy, at least he hasn't proven himself incompitent by four years of poor international decisions and domestic neglect.

lukeiamyourdad
11-03-2004, 05:26 AM
You know what worries me? That America's northern neighbor eats the crap Bush will create for himself.

Admiral Vostok
11-03-2004, 05:37 AM
Au contraire, the politicians do. Because if they don't the US will exert it's economic power and force them to change their minds.

It's the same in Australia. The politicians love Bush but the people don't like him much at all.

This is especially the case in Europe. Polls have shown that in just about every European country the population is about 80% opposed to Bush. Spain is a prime example, I think disapproval was up to about 90% at one stage, but Spain's politicians still sided with Bush to become part of the "Coalition of the Willing" despite what the Spanish people wanted. Hence why in Spain's recent election the challenging candidate offered to remove Spanish troops from Iraq if elected, and he won by a landslide.

Ain't democracy grand?

lukeiamyourdad
11-03-2004, 05:55 AM
The European Union can stand up to the Americans and so does China.


Especially China. They've gotten a lot of criticism from the US telling them to stop selling products so cheap they're killing US economy. Obviously, China cares so much about such threats:dozey:
They'll outproduce and outgrow the US soon enough.

Back on topic, it is quite true Canada cannot function without the USA, its primary trade partner so we have not a lot of choices though I'd rather kiss the ass of someone who deserves it rather then a total retard.

Our last prime minister refused to participate in the war and received lots of ire and problems from americans, especially big corporations who wanted to completely stop all trading between he two countries because "we are not good friends".
Hell, I got friends in the military and I don't want any of them to take a bullet for GWBush.

Admiral Vostok
11-03-2004, 06:25 AM
Certainly as long as Germany and France, the strongest countries in the Union, follow the will of their people rather than the will of America, Europe will continue to keep the US in line. Fortunately China (as you mentioned) and Japan are also not being intimidated.

In fact it's scary how much the world is moving towards that depicted in George Orwell's 1984. I recommend it as a good read to everyone. In it the world has become divided into three major powers: Oceania (the Americas + UK + Australia), Eurasia (Europe and Russia) and EastAsia (China + Japan). Quite scary.

DK_Viceroy
11-03-2004, 07:13 AM
So I suppose the Continent of Africa is a Pipe dream then?

Or hasn't it been built yet?

In Britain Bush is detested and despised so don't think the UK will be joining up with America any time soon especially after blair gets kicked out.

The EU as a super state is Something I've been predicting on IA that's why I think Taiwan should leap into China's arms.

I genuienly thought Emperor was emporer.

Nairb Notneb
11-03-2004, 07:19 AM
I agree Cosmo, err, a Vostok (nice avatar by the way) the world is more and more becoming like Orwinian in nature as in "1984". It is a great book. I should read it again. It has been a long time. I posted a thead about an ID chip that has been accepted for use by out FDA here in the good old USA. It is a radio frequency activated chip that works like a grocery store scanner. It is inserted under your skin. My cat has one. It scares me.

DK_Viceroy
11-03-2004, 07:21 AM
Well ID cards in Britain are being planned for something like 2008.

I can imagine the European Union becomming a major superpower.

swphreak
11-03-2004, 08:04 AM
Hmmm...

Decisions Decisions...

Shall I crash with someone over in Canada for 4 years, or go back to the Wang and declare it an Independent nation? I'll call it the Independent Sovereign Imperical Nation of the United Galactic Federational States [ISINUFFS] (I just threw in a bunch of big words), and declare myself Supreme Overlord! We shall hold the US hostage by keeping our Florida Orange Juice. Let's see them protect themselves from the flu now! Muahahahaha! We also have random themeparks.


I'm just glad Bush can't run again next election... if we're still alive in four years :/

Admiral Vostok
11-03-2004, 08:34 AM
Phreak, I do pity you. Were I staying on in Canada for the next four years I'd offer my
humble abode to US political refugees like yourself, but alas I must return to the 51st state that is Australia... one of the few western countries where hatred for Bush is not in the majority...

So I suppose the Continent of Africa is a Pipe dream then?If you're referring to Africa in 1984, it is one of the contested territories between the superpowers, though Oceania controls most of it... much like today. If you're wondering why Africa isn't a superpower... well it isn't, it's the poorest continent in the world, it can't hope to compete with the other superpowers.
I genuienly thought Emperor was emporer.Exactly my point. I don't correct typos, I correct mis-spellings where people are under the impression that they're spelling it right. For example, I could tell you that genuienly is spelt genuinely, but I'm sure you didn't mean to type it that way so I won't bother to correct it (just to use it as an example of a typo).

Nairb Notneb
11-03-2004, 09:00 AM
Well, I am conservative in my political views and I have one thing that I have to say (ok, I have a lot to say, but all I'm going to say is one thing, this time anyway). Since the Republican party now controls the White House, and since they picked up even more seats in the House giving them even larger control there, and since they picked up four seats in the Senate giving them a 54 to 46 lead ratio in there, they really have no reason not to get their agenda accomplished. I am not a registered republican, but I tend to vote more for Republicans than any other group because they tend to be more conservative minded like myself, but they better do something this term because they have no excuse this time.

swphreak
11-03-2004, 09:23 AM
I'll say this, Bush better get the Nuclear waste to Nevada. One thing I disagreed with Kerry was that he said there will be no Nuclear watse disposal in Neva's Yucca Mountains. Even though that is the best place for them. Bush better get to it...

Yucca Mountaints > High level waste sitting in pools of water all over the place.

DK_Viceroy
11-03-2004, 10:26 AM
I was reffering to the African Continent as a unified nation the day it becomes a Super power will be the day we've build Star Destroyers.

I think it's more Likely gonna be Asia then the European Union with Britian and a few others.

A Revitalised Soviet Union because that's already started they just need to get rid of Putin's propganda machine and so called Democracy (well MANAGED Democracy)

Then there'll be SOtuh America and North America so America+ Canada then All the countires of South America together.

The European Union will propably be quite a power house when We get back on track from constant American interference.

No kidding either the Americans have been mucking around with European politics saying THEY don't want US to have a European Army and trying to prevenet a Superstate.

I'm strongly of the opionion that most politicians should be shot.

lukeiamyourdad
11-03-2004, 10:59 AM
This feels like Vietnam when tons of US citizens went to "study" in Canada to avoid getting drafted.

DK_Viceroy
11-03-2004, 11:00 AM
Good thing South Park the movie wasn't a true story then otherwise they'd have been killed anyway.

lol some movies are just strange.