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Rends
10-23-2004, 11:44 AM
This is a early untextured version of a Spacedock map iīm currently working at:
http://people.freenet.de/Santarossa/KonzeptRdock.JPG
There will be a (rebel?) freighter or transport ship in the middle of the dock.
Some partly opened tunnels are purple colored in this image .
At the zop left is a shield generator wich produce something like an airbubble (not shown yet) around the dock to make fighting rebels in the space more realistic ;-)
The spacedock is close to a planet (i only placed Coruscant in as axample) and it will be possible to fall down from the dock ;-)
For the gameplay you have some tunnels to fight parts of the commandcentral and also the cargoroom of the freighter.
There are also 2 landing plattforms .At least one is needed for the invasion force.
Now you will mention that we donīt have any mod tools yet but i will go on working and hope that we get these tools from Pandemic soon.

I hope you like my idea. Any feedback is welcome!

Rends

Gerardo
10-23-2004, 12:00 PM
you should add some rooms and hallways inside that big red thing. You cold even make a command post in the center of the red thing with a big control room to raise the stakes, perhaps to suggest that control of this space dock is vital to success of the rebellion or the Empire.

Alegis
10-23-2004, 12:21 PM
well i guess its a bit too early to comment on the map :p though fall in space? You can't fall in space....

nemesis11c
10-23-2004, 12:40 PM
I think that it would be great if you made it a spacedock at Bilbringi, or maybe a KDY (Kuat Drive Yards) facility, but I think that Bilbringi would be a better choice. It would be cool if there would be a couple of Star Destroyers off in the distance, like the ones you can see in the atmoshpere in planetary levels, to give it added realism, and maybe a Gallofree Class Medium Transport or a Nebulon B Figate. Follow the link for pics of each.

http://www.freewebs.com/nemesis11c/starwars.htm

Rends
10-23-2004, 12:45 PM
Gerardo, there will be some room for fights in the freighter.
Alegis, sure in real you canīt fall in space. But i guess that is a limit of the game engine that you will always fall down.
nemesis, yes there will be something in the distance even if itīs only for the athmosphere.
Well iīm not sure what you mean with Bilbringi, or maybe a KDY (Kuat Drive Yards) ? Where is that ?

Rends

nemesis11c
10-23-2004, 01:15 PM
Bilbringi is a shipyard facility for the Empire, I was thinking that maybe you could put the spacedock in orbit around Bilbringi, which is a nice blue- green planet, which looks interesting and pretty from orbit, unlike Kuat, who makes the ISD (Imperial Star Destroyer), the ISD Deuce (Imperial Star Destroyer Mark2), and the SSD (Super Star Destroyer). Anyways, Kuat is kinda like a more rural version of Coruscant, with several large cities, but no real beauty, so I'd recommend Bilbringi. You could also put Bilbringi Shipyard ensignia on the shipyards somewhere. Anyways, it's just a thought, but it would really give the map a lot of detail.

DarkDan721
10-23-2004, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by Alegis
well i guess its a bit too early to comment on the map :p though fall in space? You can't fall in space....

Well im not a physics genious but i think you fall can. I mean being that close to the earth i would think that you would still be pulled by its gravity. Deffinetly pulled less, but still pulled, so maybe the physic could be edited so you fall slower, or maybe have it switch to a slow motion when you fall. Now many of you may be saying "well than why doesnt the ship fall?" and the answer to that is that 1 i has its own propulsion and 2 its caught in a revolution around the planet. And oh yeah #3, this isnt reality so anything goes.

Benjo
10-23-2004, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by Alegis
well i guess its a bit too early to comment on the map :p though fall in space? You can't fall in space....

if you are falling while still in the "air bubble" your going to be accelerating downwards at the rate of gravity at that altitude, so once you paced through the edge of the air bubble, your velocity will be constantly downwards, therefor "falling" effect would be accurate, cos you would be traveling towards the planet....

and one of newtons laws states that to prevent momentum, you must have an equal force to stop the object... so unless they hit a spaceship or debry while they are "falling" they will continue on thier bath towards the planet, until they hit the atmosphere, and start accelerating again, then they would probably burn up and die, either way....

Cheers,

Cpt. Bannon
10-23-2004, 06:31 PM
in space there is microgravity. you would not fall, but there shouldn't be a place to fall from in the first place, after all, these troopers couldnt go int open space, they'd decompress and explode, then freeze solid. (or in the case of the droids, they'd vaporlock and never move)

note:in space, gravity is negligible, so (according to newton's first law of inertia) you would have to push off of the platform to head in any direction in zero gee. so technically you would just jump up and keep going up and up and up.

Visceral
10-23-2004, 07:29 PM
Well to answer those problems we have the 'air bubble' - it would probably be more 'accurate' to say the thing generates its own atmosphere - and of course, artificial gravity. I think this map is a fine idea.

I would, however, like to see a special space battle map where there's no infantry fighting at all, just LOTS of starfighters, for us vehicle fanatics. There should be a good variety as well; the Rebels could have A-, B-, X-, and Y-Wings and the Imps could have TIE Fighters, TIE Bombers, TIE Interceptors, and TIE Advanced. Come to think of it, someone should just do a map for the Endor space battle. You could have the Rebel capital ships on one end and the Imperial fleet on the other end, and a few ships on each side would have hangar bays where everyone would spawn, get in their fighters and take off. Anyone who leaves the hangar bay would find hallways leading to antiair turrets and larger turrets with huge, AT-TE/AT-AT or bigger sized ordinance for firing at the enemy capital ships. Victory could be achieved by destroying the enemy capital ships (and thus their spawn points). I would recommend against movie authenticity when it comes to the Death Star II though; it wouldn't be fair at all for the Rebels to lose their capital ships and be powerless to do anything about it. Unless... it wouldn't be a problem to have an object that size in the game (something tells me it would be), you could make it possible after a certain time limit has passed for the Rebels to fly into the superstructure and destroy the thing. Anyway, I'll stop rambling about it now.

Rends
10-24-2004, 04:25 AM
Well i guess in a Star Wars universe we donīt need to explain everything. It just happen. You can here also spaceships in the movies and this isnīt possible too .-)
So you will fall from the deck in the Spacedock map :-)

rends

Gerardo
10-24-2004, 01:31 PM
what u could do is try to use the same type of bubble that was included in the Naboo Plains Campaign level. So that you could walk through it and fly through it. That would be feasible I think.

Skellington
10-24-2004, 06:09 PM
So, MY question is: What are you building that with, and do you have any idea if it will actually be possible to import it into the game? If it's Max or Maya, I'M IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've got a bunch of stuff I want to work on!

Rends
10-24-2004, 10:57 PM
Iīm working with max and i realy hope once we have Tool(s) from Pandemic that it will be easely to import stuff into new maps.

Rends

Kurgan
10-25-2004, 06:00 AM
Originally posted by Cpt. Bannon
in space there is microgravity. you would not fall, but there shouldn't be a place to fall from in the first place, after all, these troopers couldnt go int open space, they'd decompress and explode, then freeze solid. (or in the case of the droids, they'd vaporlock and never move)

note:in space, gravity is negligible, so (according to newton's first law of inertia) you would have to push off of the platform to head in any direction in zero gee. so technically you would just jump up and keep going up and up and up.

Well technically being exposed to vacuum doesn't make you explode, or freeze solid. You'd die after a few minutes from asphysxiation (lack of oxygen) and hypothermia (space isn't cold, but you lose heat fast with nothing to seal it in), certainly, but you wouldn't react violently like in Total Recall or some other movies.

Besides, the Stormtroopers, Clones and certain other guys have sealed suits that would keep them alive a little longer in the vacuum than the Rebels. And the droids would be fine.

We assume the station generates its own artificial gravity (even if it's a "low g" station). Gravity actually exists in space, it just drops off as you move away from large mass bodies. When we say "zero g" it's not really zero, it's just really really low, iirc.

Basically in this map the way you'd do it is if you fall, you'd fall for a bit until you hit the "outside" of the "air bubble" (maybe a few dozen meters) then you just instantly die. I mean what do you want, a long cutscene of you gradually falling towards the planet and turning into a meteor? ; )

Without the artificial gravity on the station, yes, you would just float away. That's why astronauts either have an umbilical cord to the ship (a tether) or a jetpack to manuver around. Give everyone spacesuites and jetpacks with infinite (or a ton of) fuel and you could do low g probably.

Cpt. Bannon
10-25-2004, 06:42 PM
You do react violently because there is no pressure. Earth's atmosphere is pressing against each square inch of you with a force of 1 kilogram per square centimeter (14.7 pounds per square inch). The force on 1,000 square centimeters (a little larger than a square foot) is about a ton. This force is cancelled out by the pressure tht the fluid in your cell walls, because they, too, are under high pressure. If you remove the pressure on your cells, they rupture and you disperse until pressure has equalized.

Yahoo.s2f
10-26-2004, 05:18 PM
I'll just use magnetic boots :) so i dont "fall" up!

kingguru
10-26-2004, 05:40 PM
Earth's atmosphere is pressing against each square inch of you with a force of 1 kilogram per square centimeter (14.7 pounds per square inch).


ahhh now i know where those headaches come from .... hehe



but seriouly that was interesting info , Ive never thought about myself as a pressurized cell ...it makes one feel so insignicant in the scheme of things...

Cpt. Bannon
10-26-2004, 06:07 PM
you're welcome. see, physics does com in handy sometimes :D

i like the idea of this map, but again i think that it should all be enclosed. and you should be able to explore the inside of the ship...can we also get a reference for the scale of this? (ex: put a human model next to it at scale)

Rends
10-27-2004, 12:42 AM
I think about 150m length for the Dock and about 100m for the freighter.

Rends

Blimbo
10-27-2004, 07:02 AM
One thing that is incorrect about this physics discussion. If you are in a steady state orbit, you are in fact already free falling. The acceleration of gravity in orbit is only slightly less than that of the surface, at 200km the acceleration of gravity is still 9.2 m/s^2 or 94% of the acceleration at the Earths surface. The 'feeling' of weightlessness is due to the fact that you and your ship are constantly free falling towards the Earth. Without the push on your tush from your chair you do not perceive gravity.

The reason you never collide with the Earth is due to your tangental velocity (about 20km/s) placing you the same height above the surface of the earth that you fell. This is because of the roundness of the Earth. This also requires a precise velocity, to slow and you lose height, to fast and you gain height.

To further illustrate, if you wanted to maintain a constant height of 200km above the earth without a tangental velocity you would have maintain a constant thrust of 9.2 m/s^2 away from the center of the earth. This would be negated by the pull you were feeling towards the earth, but this thrust would make it feel like you were in a gravitational field of 18.4 m/s^2. You would feel like you weighed a little less that twice your earth weight.

There is no force only curvature of space and motion.

DarkDan721
10-27-2004, 01:32 PM
Thats is, this thread has officially become too mind bogling to me, and Im an Honor Student.:D :eek:

Over and Out,
:fett:

Cpt. Bannon
10-27-2004, 01:51 PM
that's called microgravity (as i understand it.)

nemesis11c
10-27-2004, 03:30 PM
Why does everyone care about microgravity and physics? It's a game! Yea, physics are important, sure, but I think that we could get back to the topic of the actual mod itself, and not discuss microgravity, kinetics, and inertia in this forum. YES THERE IS MICROGRAVITY, BUT SINCE ANY INTELLGIENT PERSON WOULD NOT WALK OFF OF A SPACE PLATFORM, I DO NOT SEE WHAT THE FUSS IS ABOUT. You should just create a boundary around the platform that you cannot surpass, eliminating all of this fuss about jumping off. (If that's not possible, please do not flame me, it's just a practical suggestion) Since the platform would have nominal artificial gravity, again, normal physics rules apply. I do not mean to flame, but I do think that there could be a solution reached without all of this needless fuss, and if you cannot create a boundary around the thing, then yes, you should fall, once again because there is nothing to slow you down in space, so if you step off, you would helplessly float away, or just die from decompression. NOTE: Although Stormtroopers and such have sealed suits, they would run out of air after a minute, and since they aren't adapted for the cold, they would freeze in about 10 seconds. There should be a forcefield around the map, not only to keep air in, but to keep the players in, as well.

Revlt Coranier
10-27-2004, 11:04 PM
Math and physics arouse me.... o_0

Ranre
10-27-2004, 11:13 PM
I'm no math wiz:confused: But... It's a game, let the actors and creators of SW do that to confuse us, we just have to pretend we know it, but anyways.... I like the pic, it's great!:thumbs1:

Blimbo
10-28-2004, 06:35 AM
No it is not microgravity. It is 94% of sea level gravity. Your body is being pulled towards the center of the Earth at that acceleration. You just dont feel it due to the fact your falling. Microgravity can be felt in interplanetary/stellar space.

If you don't understand or care about a subject, why do you flame it?

About the space station. I'm sure OSHA would require railings on a space station. Also some sort of support personnel walkways underneath the station would be neat.

Mountainforest
10-28-2004, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by Alegis
well i guess its a bit too early to comment on the map :p though fall in space? You can't fall in space....


That's a misunderstanding. While orbitting earth or any planet, star, etc you are constantly falling.


Imagine a cannon on a high mountain fireing a bullet with a enormous speed. The bullet falls down, but 'misses'earth. The bullet keeps falling and missing eart and is in orbit.

That was the physis lesson of today :D

Blimbo
10-28-2004, 10:24 AM
You might want to read a few posts up.

Cpt. Bannon
10-28-2004, 04:18 PM
sorry...i meant free fall, not microgravity...microgravity (in referenc to being near earth) is what you experience while in free fall. (about -9.8x10^-7 m/s/s net force)