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Leper Messiah
11-08-2004, 02:56 AM
watched the new dvd of Return of the Jedi last night which resurfaced some of my questions aobut the whole darned shindig, firstly, what happens to Vader that is fatal before his mask is taken off? secondly in the celebrations, on Coruscant is the Jedi council building there/added? and if so why? i would have thought Palpatine would have torn it down. and thirdly i know its been asked before by why is Hayden Christensen at the end? as the story of Anakin/Vader goes it makes no sense to present him as the young fool who ended up as Darth Vader rather than the redeemed man....

Boba Rhett
11-08-2004, 03:18 AM
For the first question, I guess it's because Palpy was throwing down some major for shockings. Question two and three have the same answer: Because Lucas is a crazy old man that needs to stop tinkering.

Rogue15
11-08-2004, 03:23 AM
it was the dark side that kept darth vader alive.

GothiX
11-08-2004, 03:23 AM
As for the second question; didn't the emperor leave it there as a sign of his victory? Thought I read that in a EU book..

Sivy
11-08-2004, 03:25 AM
Originally posted by Leper Messiah
what happens to Vader that is fatal before his mask is taken off?


when he picks up the emperor his suit gets fried by the force lightning. so all the life-support systems that are built into the suit stop working, so vader knew he wouldn't live long.

thats why vader never used force lightning, and if rumours are to be believed... you will see anakin use lightning in ep III.

secondly in the celebrations, on Coruscant is the Jedi council building there/added? and if so why? i would have thought Palpatine would have torn it down.


obviously he doesn’t, maybe he keeps it as a trophy like thing.


and thirdly i know its been asked before by why is Hayden Christensen at the end? as the story of Anakin/Vader goes it makes no sense to present him as the young fool who ended up as Darth Vader rather than the redeemed man....

apparently we will find out in Ep III, but I think its all to do with the way jedi ‘retain their identity’ after death.

Leper Messiah
11-08-2004, 03:27 AM
Originally posted by Sivy

apparently we will find out in Ep III, but I think its all to do with the way jedi ‘retain their identity’ after death.

well be that as it may, Anakins identity at the end is surely the older man rather than the way he was before Vader.....

Leper Messiah
11-08-2004, 03:28 AM
Originally posted by GothiX
EU book..

EU.......EU.....help me out here :D

Rogue15
11-08-2004, 03:36 AM
expanded universe.

Leper Messiah
11-08-2004, 03:38 AM
Originally posted by Rogue15
expanded universe.

ah right, theyre non canon though arnt they?

Astrotoy7
11-08-2004, 04:43 AM
Originally posted by Leper Messiah
ah right, theyre non canon though arnt they?

*groan*

congratulations. You have asked n00b question of the week[/comic store guy]

*what sivy says about the force lightning is as good explanation as any...or maybe anakin/vader was just depressed because his son had a real bad haircut, as opposed to him back in the day with his swingin 70s porn star do :)

*what sivy says about keeping identity after death is taken from what GL said on the ROTJ DVD, and perhaps may be covered in ep3.....

*sivy is da man. But I wouldnt hang around him too much. He has spoilerised himself to ruin :p

that is all :D

mtfbwya

Leper Messiah
11-08-2004, 04:50 AM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
*groan*

congratulations. You have asked n00b question of the week[/comic store guy]


they are non canon though.....

Astrotoy7
11-08-2004, 04:58 AM
Originally posted by Leper Messiah
they are non canon though.....

I have fought endless canon debates, and I am too weary to get into one again........ check this thread out :

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129951&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

this thread was started by my fellow EU shadow mod, Keralys and was originally questioning KOTORs place in canon. It ended up being an excellent discussion of what canon actually is :D

mtfbwya

El Sitherino
11-08-2004, 06:27 AM
I just came to add that I feel this thread is the epitome of sucktitude.

no offense.

Astrotoy7
11-08-2004, 07:45 AM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
I just came to add that I feel this thread is the epitome of sucktitude.

no offense.

great, you might be made a mod if you keep up the a$$-smoochin , but that still doesnt give you the right to stroll around talkin crap like that :p

Leper is obviously an EU virgin, and I will penetrate him with my Hand of Thrawn :D Sivy will sit on the motel bed and watch, wearing his Joruus C'Boath style disco robe and medallion :D
http://www.starwarsbookclub.com/1782c040.jpg

mtfbwya

Leper Messiah
11-08-2004, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
great, you might be made a mod if you keep up the a$$-smoochin , but that still doesnt give you the right to stroll around talkin crap like that :p

Leper is obviously an EU virgin, and I will penetrate him with my Hand of Thrawn :D Sivy will sit on the motel bed and watch, wearing his Joruus C'Boath style disco robe and medallion :D
http://www.starwarsbookclub.com/1782c040.jpg

mtfbwya

wally

i have read the black fleet crisis, the new rebellion and Vector Prime which thoroughly put me off reading the rest of the (quite extensive) New Jedi Order, i like them but theyre not canon in the same way i like the games but theyre not canon

weiderudare
11-08-2004, 08:51 AM
So all a jedi needed was to throw a toaster on Vader?
Doesnt make that much sense does it?

Nalukai
11-08-2004, 09:01 AM
1. Vader took a rather nasty direct hit of Force Lightning that destroyed his life support systems... Knowing he was going to die anyway he took off his helmet which doubled as a breathing apparatus so he could see luke one time with his own eyes.

2. Palpantine's Trophy of the Destruction of the Jedi

3. Lucas changed the ghost to Hayden because of this reason..:
The Ghost represent the essence of the Jedi before their time of death. Anakin dies in the lava and is brought back by the dark side of the force... this is when as obi wan says " He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader... since he died 20 years before his Dark Side essence did... His ghost should look like that of before him falling in the lava.

Leper Messiah
11-08-2004, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by Nalukai


3. Lucas changed the ghost to Hayden because of this reason..:
The Ghost represent the essence of the Jedi before their time of death. Anakin dies in the lava and is brought back by the dark side of the force... this is when as obi wan says " He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader... since he died 20 years before his Dark Side essence did... His ghost should look like that of before him falling in the lava.

Obi Wan was wrong about Vadar, that was the point. He was Anakin when he died....

CapNColostomy
11-08-2004, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by Leper Messiah
wally

i have read the black fleet crisis, the new rebellion and Vector Prime which thoroughly put me off reading the rest of the (quite extensive) New Jedi Order, i like them but theyre not canon in the same way i like the games but theyre not canon

Screw those. Do yourself a favor and take Astros advice. The Thrawn trilogy is awesome. In fact, even though that fat bastard George Lucas says they aren't part of his "vision", I'd say they're superior in every way to his weak, fat "vision". If someone other than that portly sumbitch made a movie of those books, I'd gladly burn my OT, and the new ones, dismissing them as not part of my vision, and put the fire out with my own urine.

Leper Messiah
11-08-2004, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by CapNColostomy
Screw those. Do yourself a favor and take Astros advice. The Thrawn trilogy is awesome. In fact, even though that fat bastard George Lucas says they aren't part of his "vision", I'd say they're superior in every way to his weak, fat "vision". If someone other than that portly sumbitch made a movie of those books, I'd gladly burn my OT, and the new ones, dismissing them as not part of my vision, and put the fire out with my own urine.

errrr ok, a little more militant than i was expecting....

i liked the black fleet crisis and the new rebellion was ok, but Vector Prime was HORRIBLE

•-BLaCKouT-•
11-08-2004, 11:40 AM
Well... technically, if it's got a SW logo on it - it's canon. IE it's been approved by the Lucasfilm continuity department except for those things which have a SW logo and an Infinities logo (they're the SW equivalent of the old 'What If?' comics).

There are two levels of Canon* - G-Canon (movies only) and C-Canon (everything else).

If there's an inconsistency between the two, G-Canon will always win. If there's an inconsistency between two seperate 'C' sources... deal with it - none of it's real anyways ;)

Sleep well :)

B.

* yes, I know that the idea of having two levels of 'canon' more or less destroys what 'canon' is supposed to be, but hey - this wasn't my idea, blame George Lucas :xp:

CapNColostomy
11-08-2004, 11:49 AM
Oh, and I meant to say ZAHN trilogy, which features Grand Admiral Thrawn. I'd just awoke, so excuse my previous post.

Troopr-Undr-Fir
11-08-2004, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by •-BLaCKouT-•
but hey - this wasn't my idea, blame George Lucas :xp:


That is part of the problem :rolleyes:

Bob Gnarly
11-08-2004, 04:54 PM
my ever growing inability to fathom the Star Wars saga
I found this funny because its on a Star Wars message board.

Also because Fathom is a unit of measurement and makes no sense in the title.


as for your 3 real questions, no idea.

IG-64
11-08-2004, 04:58 PM
I'd say vader got shocked pretty bad if you could see his skeleton through his suit.

Astrotoy7
11-09-2004, 05:20 AM
Originally posted by Leper Messiah
errrr ok, a little more militant than i was expecting....


he he. c'mon, the capNs a wartime president, you shouldnt expect anything less :D

Leper, those selection of books you read were probably the strangest selection of EU books to read. The Black Fleet Crisis is quite ho-hum compared to massive battles in the Thrawn Trilogy, and the latter NJO(which it seems you have missed out on :( )

another excellent book is I, Jedi. The only first person perspective EU novel. Magnificent EU fiction IMO :D

I think Zahns books are enriched and enhanced by the associated comics.... they are amazing, great artwork, and dialogue written by zahn himself...

heres some info about them

Heit to The Empire TPB (http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=46-467)

Dark Force Rising TPB (http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=47-306)

The Last Command (http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=48-201)

Leper Messiah
11-09-2004, 05:31 AM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
Leper, those selection of books you read were probably the strangest selection of EU books to read. The Black Fleet Crisis is quite ho-hum compared to massive battles in the Thrawn Trilogy, and the latter NJO(which it seems you have missed out on :( )


i liked the black fleet crisis. i coulda done without the Lando storyline though. and the bit with Luke looking for his mother which will almost certainly be proved to not be possible after episode 3. mind you if Padme survives episode 3 (i personally am pretty sure she wont) its almost certain she'll appear in the EU very soon after.

if the NJO is all like Vector Prime i dont think ill bother. i was intrigued, as i said across the way the star wars movies/eu section of lucasforums, to hear a rumour that in this series that Coruscant falls to these new invaders, (whats their name, the Yuzzahn Vong or somethin like that?) but Vector Prime killed my interest for many reasons, especially the way the author handled the death of Chewbacca which could and should have been so much better. but generally i found the story to be not very good. plus the concept of this invaison in the NJO reminds me very much of the Ssi-Ruk in The Truce At Bakura.

Astrotoy7
11-09-2004, 05:54 AM
Leper, you needn't post NJO spoilers in spoiler tags.... 99% of us know about poor chewie :p

The massive book 'Star by Star' is the one which outlines the fall of coruscant, it is amazingly epic in scope and quite well written IMO :) I think if you have more EU related questions, feel welcome to pop into the EU FORUM (http://www.lucasforums.com/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&postid=1688803)

....while your there, make sure you vote in that out of control thread "Hottest Star Wars Chick" :D

there has been a book about the Skywalkers(Leia) learning about their family, its called Tatooines Ghost, where she finds out about Schmi and anakin as a child...its quite an interesting read :D

mtfbwya

Leper Messiah
11-09-2004, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
Leper, you needn't post NJO spoilers in spoiler tags.... 99% of us know about poor chewie :p

The massive book 'Star by Star' is the one which outlines the fall of coruscant, it is amazingly epic in scope and quite well written IMO :) I think if you have more EU related questions, feel welcome to pop into the EU FORUM (http://www.lucasforums.com/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&postid=1688803)

....while your there, make sure you vote in that out of control thread "Hottest Star Wars Chick" :D

there has been a book about the Skywalkers(Leia) learning about their family, its called Tatooines Ghost, where she finds out about Schmi and anakin as a child...its quite an interesting read :D

mtfbwya

hmmm, Tatooines ghost interests me (despite the fact that the premise reminds me of a very boring book i studied in school set in India called Heat and Dust), but i get the rather obvious impression that its almost entirely set on Tatooine. I dont know why but i have a very low attention span when it comes to Tatooine, even in the movies. but i would like to read a story like that, are there any more OT/prequel kinda "crossovers" like that?

edit: also if i jumped from the end of Vector Prime to the beginning of Star By Star, would I be able to follow whats going on?

Samuel Dravis
11-09-2004, 09:14 AM
There's the Han Solo trilogy (not the Daley ones) that tells what he did for several years before ending up at the cantina in the last scene...


EDIT: The books are:

1. The Paradise Snare
2. The Hutt Gambit
3. Rebel Dawn

Leper Messiah
11-09-2004, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by Samuel Dravis
There's the Han Solo trilogy (not the Daley ones) that tells what he did for several years before ending up at the cantina in the last scene...


EDIT: The books are:

1. The Paradise Snare
2. The Hutt Gambit
3. Rebel Dawn

i dunno those dont interest me so much, again cos they probably spend quite some time on bloody tatooine and the stories about the smugglers etc, while good attention to detail in the Star Wars universe dont interest me as a seperate entity.

•-BLaCKouT-•
11-09-2004, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by Mamba
Also because Fathom is a unit of measurement and makes no sense in the title.
Clickage (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fathom)
tr.v. fath·omed, fath·om·ing, fath·oms
1. To penetrate to the meaning or nature of; comprehend. ;)
But yeah, it caught my attention too because it's on a SW messageboard :p

Oh, and I can recommend A.C.Crispin's Han Solo trilogy 100% :D I wasn't too keen before I read them either, but they give a lot more depth to Solo's character in the movies.

B.

Shok_Tinoktin
11-09-2004, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Leper Messiah
also if i jumped from the end of Vector Prime to the beginning of Star By Star, would I be able to follow whats going on?

More or less, but I wouldn't recommend it. You could probably figure it out as you go, but you will enjoy it much more if you read them in order. The NJO is supposed to be one continuous series, not like the previous EU.

I agree with Astro that your previous EU readings are... unusual. The books I recommend are: Thrawn trilogy; Hand of Thrawn duology; X-Wing series; I, Jedi; Star by Star; Traitor; Shatterpoint; Tatooine Ghost; and everything else to a lesser extent.

Originally posted by Astrotoy7
Leper is obviously an EU virgin, and I will penetrate him with my Hand of Thrawn :D

Possibly the best post ever.

Leper Messiah
11-09-2004, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin
More or less, but I wouldn't recommend it. You could probably figure it out as you go, but you will enjoy it much more if you read them in order. The NJO is supposed to be one continuous series, not like the previous EU.

I agree with Astro that your previous EU readings are... unusual. The books I recommend are: Thrawn trilogy; Hand of Thrawn duology; X-Wing series; I, Jedi; Star by Star; Traitor; Shatterpoint; Tatooine Ghost; and everything else to a lesser extent.



Possibly the best post ever.

Thrawn trilogy really doesnt interest me for one reason or another. arnt they the first books after ROTJ? i remember i chose the Black Fleet Crisis cos i wanted to move forwards a bit. The Truce At Bakura killed my interest in the immediate aftermath of the OT.

Shok_Tinoktin
11-09-2004, 05:03 PM
Thrawn trilogy was the first books to be written that take place after ROTJ. They take place 5 years after ROTJ. They are really well written, so I would suggest them anyway. However, if you want something that takes place later, I would go with Hand of Thrawn. IMO, Vision of the Future (second book in HoT) is the best book ever. But the thing about HoT is that every other book you read before it makes it a little bit better. Still, a good book in its own right.

Neverhoodian
11-09-2004, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by Samuel Dravis
There's the Han Solo trilogy (not the Daley ones) that tells what he did for several years before ending up at the cantina in the last scene...


EDIT: The books are:

1. The Paradise Snare
2. The Hutt Gambit
3. Rebel Dawn
There's also another Han Solo trilogy that covers what Han and Chewie did right before ANH. The books are Han Solo at Star's End, Han Solo's Revenge, and Han Solo and the Lost Legacy. The books are a great read and Tatooine isn't even mentioned, much less visited.

Another great set of books is the X-Wing series, particularly the ones written by Aaron Allston. The Micheal Stackpole ones are okay, but Allston's is much better, IMO.

Samuel Dravis
11-09-2004, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by Neverhoodian
There's also another Han Solo trilogy that covers what Han and Chewie did right before ANH. The books are Han Solo at Star's End, Han Solo's Revenge, and Han Solo and the Lost Legacy. The books are a great read and Tatooine isn't even mentioned, much less visited.Yeah, those were fun to read. Too short though.

toms
11-10-2004, 06:05 AM
i've come to the slow realisation that one of the best things about the original trilogy was that it DIDN'T explain a lot of the background and technicalities... just gave vague hints and mentions to things and events... This gave the impression that there was a whole, functional universe out there, but also allowed everyone to fill in the gaps with their own imagination.

Most of the attempts to fill in those gaps (in book or films or games or prequels or special editions) have failed to live up to the way my imagination filled things in (and a lot of other people too) and just tend to undermine a lot of the epic feel of the thing.

eg, the emporer and vader, and even luke and obi wan used to look quite badass, but now after seeing everone and his uncle do things like force lightning in books and games they have to try and come up with spurious reasons why they never used a lot of those new powers. The empire used to seem to be this massive evil force that had been in power for decades, now it turns out it lasted a few years, compared to the millenia of the old republic, and doesn't sound as impressive. etc...

So, it is probably best not to worry about it, or try and fnd an official answer (there probably isn't one, other than a whim of george) and just come up with your own ideas...