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View Full Version : Stop the Bad SW games! Bring back MOTS?


Jobe06660
11-28-2004, 08:13 AM
Greetings fellow Star Wars fans! If you havent noticed as of late, Star Wars games are getting a bit laxed ever since JK2, Jedi
Outcast. In my opinion, the best game that Lucas Arts has made (as in SW terms) was Mysteries of the Sith. I was thinking that if
I could get enough fans on my side, that we could persuade Lucas Arts to bring back MOTS in Mysteries of the Sith 2, with
excelent single and multiplayer modes like the origional MOTS, with smoother saber dueling than JO, and all of the origional
force powers founded in MOTS and even Jedi Knight: Dark Forces 2!!! I would need some of you input, fellow fans on basic game
play and just over all gaming performance! Thanks again!


what should be kept from Outcast/Academy:

-graphical updates
-dual lightsabers/staff
-lightside force powers-they are passive, which they should be
-weaponry system is good (perhaps better sniper weapon)
-lightsaber stances (good concept, needs tweaked)
-this is where aerial/acrobatic combat should be an OPTION, not a REQUIREMENT
-some could more powerful than others, but not overpowered
-ever hear of the seven forms of lightsaber fighting? I'm sure if you played Star Wars Galaxies you heard
of it at some point. you don't have to believe it, just take a look at it to refer to a system that could
work
-character customization (heading into the right direction)
-game modes



What needs to be changed from Outcast/Academy:

-dark side powers need to be less passive (that's what the lightside is about)
-reintroduce force throw (make objects move slower so they're dodgeable)
-reintroduce force destruction (like the ultimate dark side power)
-get rid of Force Drain, Rage is ok though
-some new force powers on both sides
-weaken force push/pull (too decisive in battle)
-more GROUND-ORIENTED lightsaber fighting
-less jumping
-less aerial uber attacks
-less 30 minute fights (what a surprise)
-more FLUID lightsaber fighting
-quicker parries/blows
-more follow ups, less delay between attacks which makes saber fighting choppy
-character classes from MOTS (neat idea that wasn't used)
-jetpack as well as similar accessories would be neat
-force vs. lightsaber mastery
-allotted points for force/lightsaber if Jedi
-dual lightsabers/staff require more points
-lightsaber stances require more points
-less dependency on mods to make the game SEEM better than it is (give us a good building block please)
-kicks AND punches in combat (have no weapon, go old school)
-better server system!


I realize that what I suggest sounds overwhelming, but much of it is possible. What was done with Academy was sad. Shallow
updates/improvements. They just give JK II a new name and call it a different game. As a Star Wars fan, I'm very disappointed
with the "effort" given towards the Jedi Knight sequels. Gameplay comes first.

Amidala from Chop Shop
11-28-2004, 08:39 AM
http://verticalhorizon.rogueskies.net/oldschool.html

Old School: A Modification of Jedi Academy



Features:
General:
- New effects created by various modders listed in the effectsreadme
- Faster player movement speed
- Added a Co-op mode using Jedi Night's JO Ladder map
- Enabled old JO gametypes CTY and Jedi Master modes
- Various bug fixes

Swoop Bikes:
- Much better swoop handling (better speed, acceleration.. etc) and swoop bike's pitch will match the ground slope like roll
- Will go over much steeper terrain and hover strength is increased insuring a smoother ride
- Some weapons other than the blaster can be used on swoops and tauntauns (for Kurgan)
- Swoop bikes will now hover over water with proper effects like in sp

Weapons:
- Various gun changes such as increased projectile speeds, much higher damage, shorter charging time for pea shooter and primary bowcaster fire, think time for alternate rockets etc..
- The lightsaber isn't the only dismembering weapon as the golan arms, alternate fire of the concussion rifle, and the various explosives will now dismember body parts
- Super dismemberment (every limb torn off and blown apart) by powerful weapons such as rockets, concussion rifle primary fire, and det packs

Acrobatics:
- Flip kick and side flip kicks from Jedi Outcast are reenabled (now also works on npcs)
- Rolls, wallruns, and other acrobatics only working for saber and melee now work for all weapons
- Force speed will lengthen vertical and horizontal wallruns based on Force Level
- Level 3 speed will now allow the player to run on the surface of water (shaolin style) :)

Force Powers:
- Various force powers such as Sight, Absorb, Speed, and Rage have a much faster activation and deactivation time
- Force Absorb, Rage, and Protection can now all be used at the same time
- Saber off enables two handed lightning
- Level 2 seeing allows players to dodge Tenloss shots and now Concussion alternate fire, Level 3 shows other's health
- Team Heal and Team Energize are integrated into Heal and Drain, i.e. Force Heal at full health will now heal allies
- Force Blinding and Force Destruction ;D

TK-8252
11-28-2004, 09:35 AM
If you think that Jedi Academy's weapon system is fine, you're crazy. It'd do more damage to poke someone with a stick than pound a dozen shots from an E-11 into them in this game.

Jobe06660
11-28-2004, 10:26 AM
Haha.:D

TK-425
11-28-2004, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by TK-8252
It'd do more damage to poke someone with a stick than pound a dozen shots from an E-11 into them in this game.
If you dont agree with that you are hopeless!
I have fixed it in my mod though, check the sig

Rockstar
11-28-2004, 05:36 PM
despite the amount of fun i have with the new stances i would prefer to have an absolutely wicked standard lightsaber system in the next game. A game with the saber combat perspective dedictated to classic, perfect balanced, tense, wicked duals.

That's my wishes any way :D

Prime
11-29-2004, 06:16 AM
Originally posted by Rockstar
A game with the saber combat perspective dedictated to classic, perfect balanced, tense, wicked duals. Unfortunately, what you think that really means and what other people think that really means can vary wildly...

razorace
11-29-2004, 06:26 AM
Exactly. Designing a better saber system isn't easy.

It'd do more damage to poke someone with a stick than pound a dozen shots from an E-11 into them in this game.
No kidding. You gotta shot a standard stormtrooper NPC like 4-6 times to kill them.

JDKnite188
11-29-2004, 07:08 AM
Jobe06660, you ask for many things that should have changes that should have been in place in Jedi Outcast. Generally, sequels should outdo their predecessors. Jumping from Sith engine to Quake III was only a technological improvement appearance.
Indeed, the gameplay is much more important.

I also agree that MotS was the best game of the series, but I consider JK/MotS as one set because MotS is an expansion to JK. MotS improved graphics (colored lighting available in expansion), storyline, map architecture, and the definitely force power system and MP (class based deathmatch = WIN). Unfortunately, LEC has declined in quality over the years. Fans can't do much about it except for modding, which has its own restrictions.

Jobe06660
11-29-2004, 08:53 AM
Yeah thats y i would like this MOD to be just like MOTS, with a good engine, every1 could vote on it, and just a really fun multiplayer mode with all of the original force pwrs! You decide!

=tom=
11-29-2004, 02:20 PM
try MovieBattles
its a great mod for JKA

http://www.moviebattles.com

Kurgan
11-29-2004, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by razorace
Exactly. Designing a better saber system isn't easy.


No kidding. You gotta shot a standard stormtrooper NPC like 4-6 times to kill them.

It is a bit extreme, but the same was true in JK2. By contrast in Jedi Knight the Stormies took 3 or 4 hits, and we all were amazed at how the ST Armor had been improved since the OT. ; )

Still, we have headshots in this game (unlike baseJK2), meaning it doesn't have to take that many hits to kill most NPC's.

razorace
11-29-2004, 04:56 PM
Well, I has referring to the difference between the blaster damage between MP and SP. In SP, the stormtroopers seem to go down in about 2-4 shots.

Kurgan
12-03-2004, 02:07 AM
That's an interesting point.

In JK2 I was struck by how HARD Stormtroopers were to kill vs. bots.

I chalked it up to several things (in SP):

1) the speed of the enemies

2) slowness of projectiles

3) inaccuracy of guns

4) high enemy health

5) general weakness of projectiles

This is on medium or hard difficulty.

The SP guns are so different from MP.

Now as to killing a bot/human vs. killing a SP NPC (in SP, not some spawned NPC in an MP map, which itself is different in some ways)... there's the fact that human players pickup shields and more health. But in general the guy you're facing really only has 125 hit points (100 health + 25 shields). Your weapons are simply better at killing, and there's less of the "loopy cinematic" animations, so you know better where your shots/strikes are going (well lag goofs it up, but you get the idea).

I am not a coder like you, but this is what I've observed playing this game for the past year. MP, it's just easier to kill (well, relatively speaking).

Edit: I will confess that using Saberdamagescale 2, saber hits are usually 1-2 hit kills (without major lag) in MP for me, and this is what I have used throughout JA's run. Without this sabers seem a bit weaker than in SP, but again you can modify that and I think most people do. But again, headshots work in MP as well, even if they are a bit tricky to get the hang of.

MikeGunther1969
12-03-2004, 03:58 PM
From the looks of the game trailers, the Episode III game will probably have the improved saber system everyone is looking for. A lot of the saber fighting was done with motion capture featuring Nick Gillard and Hayden Christensen. Now for the bad news....The gane will undoubtedly use a new graphics engine so everyone who wishes to use this new system will probably( I'm sure a few pro coders can switch it over though) have to end up scrapping their JA mod projects in favor of the new engine to implement the aformentioned saber system. Who knows if this new game will even have level edit/mod support? A year from now all of the saber style complaints may be registerd in the EP3 forums instead of the JA forums.

TK-425
12-03-2004, 04:39 PM
But I dont think that the ROTS game is going to be on the PC platform, Is it?

razorace
12-03-2004, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by MikeGunther1969
From the looks of the game trailers, the Episode III game will probably have the improved saber system everyone is looking for. A lot of the saber fighting was done with motion capture featuring Nick Gillard and Hayden Christensen. Now for the bad news....The gane will undoubtedly use a new graphics engine so everyone who wishes to use this new system will probably( I'm sure a few pro coders can switch it over though) have to end up scrapping their JA mod projects in favor of the new engine to implement the aformentioned saber system. Who knows if this new game will even have level edit/mod support? A year from now all of the saber style complaints may be registerd in the EP3 forums instead of the JA forums.

Dispite the hype, I don't really see the E3 game have "the" saber system that everyone wants. From the looks of the trailer, the system is probably a lot like a improved version of the jedi power battles system.

Prime
12-03-2004, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by razorace
Dispite the hype, I don't really see the E3 game have "the" saber system that everyone wants. From the looks of the trailer, the system is probably a lot like a improved version of the jedi power battles system. Yeah, I think it looks more like a hack and slash type game. It might still be fun though and I'm looking forward to it at this point...

razorace
12-03-2004, 11:46 PM
I agree. I'm more looking forward to this game than I was for Battlefront.