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View Full Version : What's the differanse between the jedi and sith?


starmark2k
12-06-2004, 06:02 AM
This is just a general discussion about what people think the differance between the jedi and sith is (other than the obvious good/light/evil/dark). This not specific to kotor it is general.

In my opinion
A jedi is sworn to protect the galaxcy, and should only fight to protect (themselves or anyone else).

A Sith tries to take control of the galaxcy and will fight for that cause and anyother reason.

Sivy
12-06-2004, 06:11 AM
the Sith see the force as power
Jedi see it as protection.

PoM
12-06-2004, 06:25 AM
The sith see the force as a gift, and the jedi as a burden.
I've got more:
The sith are powerfull, while the jedi are weak fools.

starmark2k
12-06-2004, 06:29 AM
Originally posted by Piece of metal
The sith see the force as a gift, and the jedi as a burden.
I've got more:
The sith are powerfull, while the jedi are weak fools.

Now i think you are taking the siths perspective.
from a jedis POV

The jedi see the force like spiderman see his powers "with great power comes great responsibility
While the sith abuse this power and take no responsibility

PoM
12-06-2004, 06:34 AM
From a siths perspective?
But thats from my perspective!

(Jedi are weak minded fools)

Shok_Tinoktin
12-06-2004, 11:39 AM
The Sith are self destructive, and the Jedi are self sacraficing.

Aleggy
12-06-2004, 01:36 PM
The Sith see the force as a source of power wich they can use to gain power and control

and yet they have to always look over their shoulder

for every sith lord there is a sith apprentice ready to kill him to take his place

The Jedi see themselves as guardians of the peace and the force is there to help them maintain the peace

however the Jedi live like monks and in my opinion are detached from life even though they in theory embrace life

both side have there advantages and dissadvantages

this could be how anikin skywalker brought balance to the force because in the end he destoyed the jedi council and the sith lord and died himself and his offspring brought a new order to the force and created a new way

just my 2 cents :D

RedHawke
12-06-2004, 05:24 PM
The difference between the Jedi and the Sith... to me, they are actually one in the same... the Jedi that fall to the darkside become Sith... and the Sith that redeem themselves once again are called Jedi...

It's a vicious cycle! :D

Shok_Tinoktin
12-06-2004, 05:31 PM
I guess the will of the Force is to be efficient. Recyled Force users is a practical idea, right?

Blessèd Sith
12-06-2004, 07:31 PM
Isn't self sacrifice indeed self destruction? The jedi, for some reason, are allowed words with better conotations, but from a purely logical point of view . . . sacrificing yourself and destroying yourself end up in the same spot: you're gone. And sacrificing yourself is conscious, willing destruction.

The jedi see the Force as an end. The Sith see the Force as a means to an end. I'm Sith, 100%. I agree with the statement that the jedi are weak minded fools. Get some backbone.

And that's what I have to say about that ^_^

Besides, this is gonna end up a completely opinionated flamer war O_O And the jedi will win because they seem to have more supporters -_-

Shok_Tinoktin
12-06-2004, 09:13 PM
Here is the difference between self-destruction and self-sacrafice: Self destruction involves trying to help yourself at the expense of yourself. Self sacrafice is trying to help others at the expense of yourself. One is clearly more logical than the other. ;) And hence the Jedi win in the end. :)

Blessèd Sith
12-06-2004, 09:39 PM
I didn't say anything about motives. Go ahead and kill yourself for someone: you still end up dead. Self sacrifice ends you in the same place self destruction does. The road doesn't matter: it's the same end. Besides, why would you end your own life for someone else? That seems less logical than wearing yourself out by living to the fullest you want. I'd rather die for me than die for someone else. I would never help anyone else at the expence of myself. I much prefer living, rather than being spineless.

^_^

Shok_Tinoktin
12-06-2004, 09:48 PM
That is all well and good for one Jedi or one Sith. However, when you add multiple into the equation, there is a severe difference. Jedi sacrafice themselves for each other and others. And thus, they live better and others live better. When you add multiple Sith, then each is self destructive and destructive to each other. Hence they each die, and quickly. I see no one who wins in the latter scenario.

ChAiNz.2da
12-06-2004, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin
I guess the will of the Force is to be efficient. Recyled Force users is a practical idea, right?
And it's better for the environment :D ;)

Originally posted by Blessèd Sith
I much prefer living, rather than being spineless.

:eyeraise: spineless? Self-Sacrifice for others is the farthest thing from spineless...ummm William Wallace? Was he spineless? No. Avoiding death at the expense of others...that's just plain cowardice and weak-willed.

:::EDIT:::
As far as the statement "The road doesn't matter"...ask anyone whose lived through the Holocaust, and be thankful the only reason you have to lift your arm in the air is to block the sun out of your eyes....
:::EDIT::: the above 'spoiled' text is/was an ignorant comment I had made. It was completely innapropriate and because of it, I have offended Blessèd Sith. For that I am truly sorry. It was unintentional, but it still doesn't excuse myself. Rather than delete the text, I leave it (in spoiler form) to let everyone know that even 'old dogs' make mistakes. I apologize to anyone else this may have offended, doubly to Blessèd Sith.

Originally posted by Blessèd Sith
Besides, this is gonna end up a completely opinionated flamer war O_O
That is 100% true :D
But hey, it's all in the name of "fun & games". Everyone has their opinion...and it's their right. I'm just glad we have the choice to "gut" our pixelated opponents..hehehe :dev11: (Darkside all the way as far as KotOR goes...woohoo!)

Taos
12-07-2004, 06:49 AM
Keep in mind that there are only two sith at one time. You've all seen the movie, I won't bother quoting it. :-p

And the jedi? Bah, they're weak, if they had been able to see what was going on with the good old chancellor......they would not have been wiped out.

starmark2k
12-07-2004, 07:17 AM
There can be more before 1000 or 2000 bby. The sith lord darth bandon created the only two sith rule after the sith were almost wiped out by the internal fighting of there own order. so in most situations of sith there may be more than 2.

Blessèd Sith
12-07-2004, 10:15 AM
You only think that killing yourself for someone else is good because you've been taught that. Either way, you're dead. How is a bunch of people dying for each other gonna keep anyone alive? If everyone is dying left right and centre, there's no one left. Avoiding death is spineless? Look, next time you're in a life-threatening situation, tell me that self-preservation is the last thing on your mind. The only reason why self preservation is seen as evil is because, again, we've been taught that. The "self" is wicked, evil and must be purged. Hm.

And I don't know why *sarcasm sarcasm*, but I was somewhat insulted at the mention of the Holocaust. I mean, is that an attempt to not actually address a statement, and instead to heat up emotions so the original meaning was lost? So no one does any thinking again, instead just flames? Because if it is, that's really pathetic. You really are jedi.

But hell, I'll address the Holocaust issue: My great opa was in the Wehrmacht. On the other side, my oma was six when she escaped home in Germany and had to walk over wasteland and witnessed many atrocities, mangled dead bodies -- and from what I've heard, the stench was . . . horrible. If I want information, I'll talk to my bloody family, THANKS. Before you say something so effing stupid again, think that maybe you DON'T know everything. Gee, no wonder I'm touchy when people bring up the Holocaust in an attempt to prove a stupid point. It really isn't something to be taken lightly. And I'm sure anyone who lived through it would agree that it's not something to be spoken about so pointlessly in a discussion about your hypothetical star wars alignment.

As I said, the road doesn't matter because it all takes you to the same spot. Drop the attempt at heating emotions to avoid the point: your arguments are illogical. Dying is dying, no matter how you slice it. Whether you're dying for someone or dying going down in flames, you're dead. And personally, I'm never gonna go easy. I'll fight tooth and nail until my last breath because I still believe that the self is NOT evil and that self preservation is a great thing. It's the number one instinct, and nature wouldn't have given that to us if we were supposed to just let death take us at every turn.

Avoiding death at the expense of others...that's just plain cowardice and weak-willed.
No, that's nature. Survival of the fittest. Nature doesn't allow the weak to survive, so if you can't fend for yourself, you're gone. Avoiding death allows one to LIVE and allows one to breed. I'd have to say that avoiding death cannot be equivalent to cowardice. Because avoiding death isn't avoiding danger. It's not accepting death. Not allowing one's self to be killed "for the greater good" or whatever you jedi spout in your false righteousness. A Sith will fight hard and fight long: but if we know we're out matched, out numbered or out skilled, we aren't stupid. We aren't gonna stay and fight a fight we can't win. But go ahead and die jedi. Makes our work easier for us.

I'll stick with the Sith.

Aleggy
12-07-2004, 10:59 AM
ok i am a firm believer in self preservation but if i were in a situation that by sticking myself in harms way and possibly death I could save the life of millions i would do it, i am not saying it would be an easy decision but in the end i know what i would do

now the sith however would quite happily kill millions not for self preservation but just to make a point and as a bullying tactic to gain information or more power

i am also a firm believer that either extreme sith or jedi are incorrect because neither actually live a life the jedi live as monks and are dettached from all life even though they protect life all life by almost any means necassary

the sith will destroy anything in their way to power but i wouldn't exactly call continuously looking over your shoulder for attack from your enemy or apprentices as a life as they are always having to use the darkside to cloud the visions and choices of the jedi and always having to hide who and what you are

there is nothing wrong with self preservation but to kill others just to preserve your life or to sacrifice your life to save people i know wich i would do

life is precious and cannot be replaced

Blessèd Sith
12-07-2004, 11:43 AM
Oh, I agree. But the thing is, is that Sith philosophy and Sith attitudes and Sith actions are always from the Jedi PoV, and written/created in such a way to laud the Jedi. I don't agree with Sith in-killing: not everyone can be a leader. Yes, survival of the fittest, but for example, in a pack of wolves, not every wolf is the Alpha. There's a leader, then the underlings. And you should always be loyal to each other because your survival depends on it.

Anything taken to any extreme is bad for you. Health and excercise are seen as being good, but taken too far they can be unhealthy and harm you more than help. The problem is, is that everything seems to be "you're on one side or the other" and if you're on one side, there's no room to be yourself or to make it your own: you have to adhere to the teachings and become more like an automatron.

Still, I prefer the Sith. Maybe it's my bloodlust and such. But hey, we all have our places. No matter how much we squabble over who's right, wrong or better, we need both sides. And yes, there are occasions where self-sacrifice would be good. Even the Sith practice it to a degree. But if it's not necessary or it's not to further the Sith cause or something along those lines, then hells no. But yeah, I'd rather have one Sith die and have ten live than have those ten die. Then again, you have to ask yourself why they were so weak to die, and perhaps they deserved it?

Self-sacrifice is a very rare thing . . . I would infact, die for my friends. But no one else. My life comes first -- but back to loyalty. If you have a tight, completely loyal group, your lives really belong to each other. That's the only way I can see self-sacrifice being valid. Otherwise . . . no. And I would kill those millions to prove a point. If I gave you warning, if you disobeyed me, if you knew the consequences and you chose them in some futile attempt at rebellion or righteousness or something, it's your own bloody fault. I will not be challenged: I will do as I threaten.

And if you have a choice between dying or killing someone, you fight and you kill. That's nature. Kill or be killed, and I'm not going down easy. I have no qualms and it's no question for me who or what comes first: I do. Those loyal to me do. That's all.

ChAiNz.2da
12-07-2004, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by Blessèd Sith
Look, next time you're in a life-threatening situation, tell me that self-preservation is the last thing on your mind.
Me alone or me with my siblings, my family ones who are close to me? We're not talking nature here but Human Nature.
You're right, if it were me alone...I'd run like no tomorrow or die fighting...but I'll be damned before I just sit back, watch or run away while someone I cared for was being hurt or worse. I'm not a gazelle on the open range trying to outrun others of my herd so the predator on my tail won't catch me :rolleyes:
And I don't know why *sarcasm sarcasm*, but I was somewhat insulted at the mention of the Holocaust.
You know what...you're absolutely right. I had no right to mention something of that historical and personal significance. I spoke out of ignorance and it was truly a horrible and immature statement of mine to use as a 'mere' candid reference. For that, I humbly apologize to you and everyone here at this forum.
As I said, the road doesn't matter because it all takes you to the same spot.
But the road does matter. Otherwise why not just sit back and let things "come to pass"? If you're going to 'just' die anyway....what's the point? Why fight the Battle? Why Survive? Why Live? Why strive to make things better for yourself and/or others?
Since you're refering to yourself as a Sith. Isn't that your teachings? Do you not strive to be the ONE Dark Lord? You can't get from one point to the other without a "road"... your argument lacks.

I'd have to say that avoiding death cannot be equivalent to cowardice.
Your right...it's how you avoid it. As I stated before...facing inevitable death, sacrificing oneself for the greater masses or greater good, CANNOT be called 'spineless'.

Because avoiding death isn't avoiding danger. It's not accepting death. Not allowing one's self to be killed "for the greater good" or whatever you jedi spout in your false righteousness. A Sith will fight hard and fight long: but if we know we're out matched, out numbered or out skilled, we aren't stupid. We aren't gonna stay and fight a fight we can't win. But go ahead and die jedi. Makes our work easier for us.
I don't recall me ever saying a Sith (or a Jedi) didn't fight-the-fight. My argument was avoiding death at the expense of others. You outrun others to avoid being killed, you trip your best friend so the predator catches them rather than you, you turn traitor to those around you to gain the favor of 'one'. What a Sith gains down the "road" to becoming the One...he/she lacks in focus of those around them. You will consume yourself, in the end...and the legacy you leave behind will be "just the One that was too weak to remain the One...."

-----------------

And please a note to all. Although 'touchy' at times, I have the greatest respect for you Blessèd Sith. You debate and defend like a champion and I do so love a good debate. You would make a great Jedi ;)

However,

I honestly do apologize for my ignorant statement in my last post.

Shok_Tinoktin
12-07-2004, 12:35 PM
Keep in mind that there are only two sith at one time.

There is a reason for that. ;)

How is a bunch of people dying for each other gonna keep anyone alive? If everyone is dying left right and centre, there's no one left.

You misunderstand what I'm saying. Self-sacrafice is not necessarily allowing yourself to be killed. I have sacraficed myself before, and I'm still around typing this. Self-sacrafice can be just giving something up that you want, so that others can live better. Lets apply this to the Jedi. Say you have a hundred Jedi. Each Jedi is sacraficing themselves for the benefit of everyone (Jedi and otherwise). So each Jedi is giving up a little, and getting a little from 99 other Jedi. Plus, countless others benefit in the process. Sith, on the other hand, destroy themselves, destroy each other, and destroy countless others.

And yes, there are occasions where self-sacrifice would be good. Even the Sith practice it to a degree.

Name once.

Side Note: This reminds me of the "The Empire was not Evil" thread. :D

Blessèd Sith
12-07-2004, 01:52 PM
I just lost my whole post in which i addressed everything you guys wrote.

I am so pissed off that I'm gonna go punch a wall until I break my knuckle again.


So . . . i'll reply again later *screams in rage and cuts something* because this forum sucks and whenever I answer something it logs me out. im so so so so angry. my post was huge and i cant believe i just lost the whole effing thing. i cant believe this! gods effing damn it >_< I cant believe this, it was like, pages long . . . im so upset . . .

*screams*

Shok_Tinoktin
12-07-2004, 02:25 PM
I used to have the same problem. If you go into your user CP and set it to automatically log you in using cookies, that will never happen. If you don't want to use cookies, you can always copy your post to the clipboard before you press submit reply. That way, if you have to try again, you can just paste it in.

Acaciah
12-07-2004, 02:47 PM
I think the Force itself is a neutral entity, and that "Dark" or "Light" Side use is largely in the eyes of the beholder. That is to say, the Force is neutral and the intent of the person using it matters as much as the act itself.

I think if you approached positive use of the Force from a more Sithly perspective, one could argue that even doing "good" benefits the Jedi in terms of the fact that they are supported by the Republic. They fight to protect it, and therefore, to preserve their own status and power. The Sith at least, are more honest in their motives. They want to rule the Galaxy, and they aren't masking that desire behind any sort of hypocritical do-gooder acts.

To be the Jedi's advocate for a moment, I will say that the Force could also be considered in terms of Newtonian physics: for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. If you choose to use the Force for your own means, instead of for the greater good, you are causing a reaction that you may not anticipate in the long run, one that may be harmful to yourself and others around you. A Jedi would consider it a great conceit to think that you can anticipate every possible end to your actions.

So, in philosophical terms, Dark Side or Light depends on whether you think people are inherently good and need to be aided, or if you think people are inherently self-serving and that you need to protect your own heiney at all costs.

Shok_Tinoktin
12-07-2004, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by Acaciah
I think if you approached positive use of the Force from a more Sithly perspective, one could argue that even doing "good" benefits the Jedi in terms of the fact that they are supported by the Republic. They fight to protect it, and therefore, to preserve their own status and power. The Sith at least, are more honest in their motives. They want to rule the Galaxy, and they aren't masking that desire behind any sort of hypocritical do-gooder acts.

Just because some one gets an advantage from doing an action, does not mean they did that action in order to recieve that advantage. In the case of the Jedi, I think it will be fairly obvious from ROTS that the Jedi are not serving the Republic for selfish reasons. If that were the case, Palpatine's revealing himself would result in a mass dessertion of the Jedi Order to instead serve Palpatine. It is doubtful this will happen.

Acaciah
12-07-2004, 04:23 PM
Just because some one gets an advantage from doing an action, does not mean they did that action in order to recieve that advantage.

*grin* You're so Jedi! Actually, the Council says in KotOR that Malak is getting Jedi defectors, and that it has hurt the Order's numbers, so again, it comes down to an individual's ethics.

As for RotS, I don't think Palpy's gonna offer the Jedi a chance to join him, save Anakin.

Shok_Tinoktin
12-07-2004, 04:59 PM
Yes of course all Jedi are not doing things for the right reason. However, fundamentally, a Jedi who actually does what Jedi are supposed to (which seems to consist of the majority of Jedi) are able to resist those urges. If the Jedi were just serving the Republic for themselves, then defections would be more common.

Originally posted by Acaciah
As for RotS, I don't think Palpy's gonna offer the Jedi a chance to join him, save Anakin.

Palpy is no fool. He will accept the help of defecting Jedi in destroying the Jedi loyal to the Old Republic, even though he would likely betray them in the end. And now that I think about deffecting Jedi, it begs the question of where Sim Aloo, Janus Greejatus, Sate Pestage, Ars Dangor, Kren Blista-Vanee, and others come from.

Originally posted by Acaciah
*grin* You're so Jedi!

Yes I am. I didnt get the lowest score here (http://lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=138676) for nothing.

Evil Dark Jedi
12-07-2004, 08:07 PM
The jedi see the force as a gift and burden.

The sith see it as a thing of power and evil.

Blessèd Sith
12-07-2004, 09:18 PM
I'm not gonna bother replying to all this (thanks for the cookie info Shok ^_^) until tomorrow except:

The jedi see the force as a gift and burden. The sith see it as a thing of power and evil.

The Sith do not see it as a thing of evil. When you do something, you don't think your motives are evil. That's taking an opposed stance, or at least an objective one, which doesn't fit with a subjective comment. The Jedi see the Force as the final and complete package. It's there for the sake of being there and they experience it. The Sith see the Force as a means to an end. Yes, power, but I wouldn't say evil. I don't think any Sith considers themselves evil. Only other people do. I'm not evil, but I know a lot of my actions would have others considering me as so.

Anyhoo, the Jedi see the Force as a gift and a burden, yes, I can agree with that completely. The Sith however, see the Force as a power to wield and to use, not to just live with. At least, that's how I see it.

ChAiNz.2da
12-08-2004, 05:08 AM
Originally posted by Blessèd Sith
The Jedi see the Force as the final and complete package. It's there for the sake of being there and they experience it. The Sith see the Force as a means to an end. Yes, power, but I wouldn't say evil. I don't think any Sith considers themselves evil. Only other people do. .........

I'd have to agree with Blessèd Sith on this one.

Not at any time do the Sith regard themselves as 'evil' or 'the bad guys'. It's always been from other party's POV (mainly the Republic & Jedi) that associate Sith with Evil.

From what I gather the Sith's view is one of Power vs Weakness, while a Jedi's view has been the more common association of Good vs Evil.

norwaymaster
12-12-2004, 11:12 AM
whats the differences are? lets see... the sith are power hungry people, while the jedi are philosophic do-gooders

ps: that "fake" spoiler was did with a purpose :D

Acaciah
12-12-2004, 11:40 AM
LMAO at Norwaymaster!:D

Mono_Giganto
12-13-2004, 04:46 PM
If Jolee was here right now you would all get a good whacking from his cane, I'm sure.

Neutral > You guys. :p

Switchy
12-15-2004, 07:46 PM
From sith point of view: :saberr:
Jedi are weak pathetic fools who use the force for 'good', Bah! You should use it to gain from it. Not to protect the galaxy.And the jedi masters only do so to stop the students from realisng there full poteinteil.

From Jedi point of view: :saberb:
The sith cowards who only use the force to kill, destroy and conquer. and refuse to help others. One must use the force wisely.

Samurai DD
12-17-2004, 08:10 AM
Well hello everyone,

Im new to the forum and dont know anyone; I would have registered on this forums sooner but only found out of them recently.

I have the same opinion as Aleggy so I consider myself a gray jedi, because either Jedi or Sith are extremes and arent balanced. The best option to me is being in the middle,a llitle to the light side. And there are people who are as "bad" as Sith and as "good" as Jedi, but everything is about POV.

UrchSr
12-18-2004, 04:21 AM
I always thought that the Jedi and Sith were political satire for a Hippie Lucas... The evil Conservatives and honorable Liberals. The force was the huge and mighty USA and the galaxy was Earth... Both sides are neither right nor wrong. The Sith have scientists and colonies and are not at all sorry that they are Sith (force user or not). The Jedi feel responsible for the whole galaxy when many don't want anything to do with the Jedi.

The Sith rule through fear and power and don't hide it. They also teach that anyone can have the power, one just has to take it (or keep it).

The Jedi think they know everything and want to take care of everyone. "We are Jedi and we know what is best for you all... Even though we don't know you or what you have been through..." It's missing the high taxes and preachy, good looking senaters...Oh, wait... Never mind, Leia has that covered.

One thing I never got was why were the Sith planets so dark and run down? The Power and riches whould have brought on the bling, right? Nope. The "Old Republic" was the planets with the bling, the good guys... Rich Queens and happy wealthy people. The Sith did not take over a planet, no... They wasted power and riches and just blew up the damn thing. The Sith would not amass such power if they wasted resources in such a way.

And how can a people so few in numbers abstain from love?! Luke was only so bad ass because he was spawned from two force sensative people. And Luke's kids are even better then he is. If Bastila and Revan ever had a child Jedi, They would be awesome. The Jedi live in fear of thier own abilities. If Mickey Mantle was afraid of hurting a base ball every time he hit one, the game would be ruined, because so many would follow in his foot steps. The Passive Pirates vs. The Angry Astros?! The Sithy Astros would crush any sphere that came in it's view and the pirates would intentionally walk them so the balls would be spared?! Come on!!

How come no Jedi Or Sith were smart enough to meet in the middle or just leave the galaxy all together and do what they want? Screw you guys, I'm going next door and I'm bringing my ball with me.

In other words, I'm grey and I stay that way by doing something really nice and then make up for it by doing something for myself, I know... How EVIL!!!