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View Full Version : A question puzzled me for a long time : Why Obi-Wan let Vader kill him in "A NEW Hope


DonEmperor
12-08-2004, 07:05 PM
He didnot resist at all. He drawn in his saber let Vader slash him then he suddently disappeard.
Many people in our country thinks that's a sucide, Obi-Wan wanted to become a "spirit" or some thing like that.Having become a "spirit" he can teach Luke help Luke everywhere Luke needs.
But I dont think so. I think that Obi-Wan has already died, at least in some aspects. He died sometime between EP3 and EP4 ,becasue of the Force
his body remain or his body just a illusion. He neither alive nor completely dead, before he found "A New Hope" he could not rest in peace.
After finding Luke and teaching Luke he thought he could rest in peace, then he let the illusion disappear. Can anybody tell me your opinion? Thanks.

Shok_Tinoktin
12-08-2004, 07:15 PM
I doubt it. It is possible, and if its true we will know in May. But regardeless, I wouldnt call it suicide. Suicide is something you do to yourself, and does not include allowing yourself to be killed. Obi-Wan knew that as long as he was alive, there is no way that Luke would leave him. So he allowed himself to be killed, so that he would be able to help Luke, and Luke would be able to escape. If Obi was already dead, it would diminish his heroic gesture. That is why I suspect he was alive.

DonEmperor
12-09-2004, 01:09 AM
Oh maybe sucide is not a proper word. I agree on this.
You mean Obi-Wan sacrifice himself to let Luke go? I think this sacrifice is too expensive ( maybe this word is not proper) . Does he have to do so? At least he should fight a little. I think he is dead because there is a lot of examles like this , dead people still woke on his job till he can rest in peace. The moive needn't put on the scenario of death of Obi-Wan , he can let spectators( or "audience" I dont know which word is proper) guess.

Sivy
12-09-2004, 01:33 AM
i have a couple of theories,

after obi-wan's 'failure' with anakin, he didn't trust himself to teach another. so knowing that yoda was still alive thought it would be better for yoda to teach luke. now its possible that obi-wan didn't know where yoda was hiding, until he became one with the force, and only then was able to lead luke to yoda.

another theory is that obi-wan knew he couldn't beat vader. he was a old man who hadn't used a lightsaber for over 20 years.
vader was still as powerful as ever, his hate and anger fuelled his connection with the darkside of the force.
remember vader's comments 'escape is not his plan, i must face him alone'
the only way obi-wan could help luke was to guide him as a sprit.
and only by accepting his fate, acknowledging that his death is the will of the force, can a jedi become one with the force and live on after death.

Shok_Tinoktin
12-09-2004, 01:38 AM
I doubt Obi-Wan saw it as too expensive a sacrafice. He knew that Luke (or Leia) was (or were) the only one (or ones) who would be able to stop Vader and the Emperor. Of course, he also knew that at the time, he was not ready to take out Vader in a duel. He also knew that Luke would not leave him to die, and that Vader would not let him escape. Take all this together, and there is no way to continue the fight and have Luke make it out (and thus have the Empire defeated). So his only choice was to end the duel. He knew he couldn't win as quickly as he could lose. Of course, maybe lose isn't the best word. Like he said, Vader couldnt win.

I kind of doubt that something like the death of Obi-Wan to the audience's guesses. Its possible, but unlikely.

Another reason that I suspect Obi-Wan was alive prior to his sacrafice: Originally, GL was going to have Obi-Wan survive to the end of ANH. He realized that it didn't make sense to have Obi-Wan around, so he killed him off. This tells me that he was supposed to be alive in the first place.

Jan Gaarni
12-09-2004, 04:04 AM
I believe it's more along the line that Obi-Wan knew he could not kill Vader.
Not because he couldn't, but because if he did Vader, or Anikin would not be able to full-fill the profecy.

That's my 2 cent's anyway. :)

rut-wa jodar
12-09-2004, 04:10 AM
I don`t believe that vader killed Obi-Wan , I think Obi-Wan became "one with the Force" just before Vader could strike him down.

Kurgan
12-09-2004, 07:54 AM
In a way perhaps, since he blames himself for Vader's fall to the Darkside (he failed to be a good teacher to Anakin), he lets himself dies as "atonement."

However, I think it has more to do with yes, he's tired of fighting and Vader is too powerful, he has an opportunity to teach Luke through the Force as a spirit, but I think the most important thing I got out of the scene was that he was trying to distract Vader from Luke (Vader doesn't yet know that he has a son; and Luke isn't ready to face Vader obviously). So he keeps Vader's full attention on him, letting Luke & Co. get away, until the time is right.

Notice how anxious Obi-Wan and Yoda got about Luke facing Vader "too soon" in ESB. That's a key point I think. They don't feel he's ready, and don't want to "lose him to the Emperor" like they did Vader.

Leper Messiah
12-09-2004, 10:47 AM
Obi-Wan's death always seemed very straightforward to me, he knew his time was over, and he seemed to have made his peace with his destiny. He knew Luke would carry the fight on. Everything was covered, there was no need for his continued existence.

I certainly don't think Obi-Wan was already dead as suggested above, and continuing as some sort of tortured soul, it doesnt fit the story at all, and for that matter if it were so, then it would be mentioned in the book or the film, there'd be no way not to mention it, and even less sense if there were.

rut-wa jodar
12-09-2004, 11:15 AM
You guys should really pay attention to the "empire of dreams" documentary that comes with the OT boxset.

George Lucas states during this scene that Obi-Wan chooses to become one with the force (or words to that effect) so that he can continue guiding Luke, indicating that Vader does not kill Kenobi.

DonEmperor
12-09-2004, 11:49 PM
Very impressive. I know much more about Obi-Wan now. My point is wrong. Ok thanks:D

Kurgan
12-10-2004, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by rut-wa jodar
You guys should really pay attention to the "empire of dreams" documentary that comes with the OT boxset.

George Lucas states during this scene that Obi-Wan chooses to become one with the force (or words to that effect) so that he can continue guiding Luke, indicating that Vader does not kill Kenobi.

Hmm, I've only seen the EOD doc once (when I first got the DVD set a few days after it came out), so maybe I missed it, but I didn't exactly get the impression that Vader didn't Kill Kenobi.

In fact, in one of the early production shots, he actually cuts Kenobi's robes in half, rather than just making the body inside vanish. Saying Obi-Wan let himself be struck is one thing, saying he wasn't killed is something else. That's like saying he never actually died. If that's the case, he could have "become one with the Force" any time, not just at the exact moment that Vader's lightsaber is intersecting his throat. Oh well, guess I need to watch that again...

Evil Dark Jedi
12-10-2004, 09:35 PM
He did that so he could destract Vader long enough for Luke and the gang to escape. He also did that to become one with the force. He focosued on the force when he shut his eyes and then died. He then became one with the force. Anyway that what I thinkk.

Revan Solo
12-12-2004, 01:59 AM
He feel that his time is over and before he dies in sleep, he want to fight Darth Vader.

CapNColostomy
12-12-2004, 02:09 AM
I've always noticed how Obi waits until Luke shows up, looks at Luke to make sure he's watching, then lets himself be offed. I always just kinda thought that he did it to plant a seed of ambition to confront Vader in Luke.

Parky
12-23-2004, 10:28 AM
I read this in Star Wars tales volume 1, so it should be the difinitive answer.

Qui Gon Jinn says to Obi Wan that the force will call out to any Jedi, when they should die. Obviously this was Obis' time, and he gave in to the force.

Astrotoy7
12-28-2004, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by CapNColostomy
I've always noticed how Obi waits until Luke shows up, looks at Luke to make sure he's watching, then lets himself be offed. I always just kinda thought that he did it to plant a seed of ambition to confront Vader in Luke.

werdage. There was definitely some motive behind that

also, remember -
"If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you could possibly imagine"

In saying this, how can Obi wan become one with the force before Vader has struck him ?? I believe Obi becoming one with the force has to do with the fact that he was killed.

I believe we will find out more about this 'joining the force' business in Ep.3. In light of the anakin ghost business. Indeed, GL has said as much in his commentaries on the OT DVD.

secondly, I am not entirely convinced that Obi/Yoda wanted Luke to know Vader was his father. IIRC in ROTJ Yoda says that it is unfortunate that Luke learnt this.... *must check that* The intention behind that being if Luke didnt know about this connection it would mak eit easier for him to defeat Vader, and less risky that Vader can make him his sith apprentice, as in ESB

Vader -
"Join me....and we will rule the galaxy as father as son

Still, all this makes me look forward to Ep.3 even more :D

mtfbwya

guybroom
01-02-2005, 12:42 PM
I got the 'aprentice of the force' game for GBA the other day and it says something like:

obi-wan died to give luke his first lesson about the force: the force is more powerful than life or death. (No body quote me on that)

Basicly, Obi's saying "Sure, you can die, but the force will guide you even after death and not to fear death as the force will help."

or something like that. Next time I replay the game i'll check.

pnkparasite
01-03-2005, 03:53 PM
I haven't yet figured that out. Ive been thinking about it because we got the movie for Christmas and watched it that night. I suppose he thought if he was a jedi he could come back in spirit.:vadar: